2014 Edition of ISH's All-Time List: #13

[DaSeba5]

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/teamsites/images/legacy/lakers/west_bigo_650_110906.jpg

The winner of the thread #12 was Oscar Robertson.

Current ISH All-Time List:
1. Michael Jordan (#23) - SG.
6x NBA Champion, 6x Finals MVPs, 5x MVPs, 14x All-Star, 10x Scoring Champ, DPOY (1988), ROTY (1985), highest scoring game in playoffs
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (#33) - C.
6x NBA Champion, 2x NBA Finals MVPs, 6x MVPs, 19x All-Star, 2x Scoring Champ, ROTY (1970)
3. Bill Russell (#6) - C.
11x NBA Champion, 5x NBA MVP, 12x All-Star
4. Wilt Chamberlain (#13)- C.
2x NBA Champion, NBA Finals MVP, 4x NBA MVP, 13x All-Star, 7x Scoring Champ, ROTY (1960), 100 point game
5. Tim Duncan (#21) - PF/C.
5x NBA Champion, 3x NBA Finals MVP, 2x NBA MVP, 14x All-Star, ROTY (1998)
6. Larry Bird (#33) - SF/PF.
3x NBA Champion, 2x NBA Finals MVP, 3x NBA MVP, 12x All-Star, ROTY (1980), Coach of the Year (1998)
7. Magic Johnson (#32) - PG.
5x NBA Champion, 3x NBA Finals MVP, 3x NBA MVP, 12x All-Star
8. Shaquille O'Neal (#32,34,33,36) - C.
4x NBA Champion, 3x Finals MVP, NBA MVP, 15x All-Star, NBA Scoring Champ (95, 00), ROTY (1993)
9. Kobe Bryant (#24)- SG.
5x NBA Champion, 2x Finals MVP, NBA MVP, 16x NBA All-Star, 2x NBA Scoring Champ (06-07)
10. LeBron James (#23, #6)- SF.
2x NBA Champion, 2x Finals MVP, 4x NBA MVP, 10x NBA All-Star, NBA Scoring Champ (08), ROTY (04)
11. Hakeem Olajuwon (#34)- C.
2x NBA Champion, 2x Finals MVP, NBA MVP, 12x NBA All-Star, 2x DPOY (93-94)
12. Oscar Robertson (#14, #1)- PG/SG.
NBA Champion, NBA MVP, 12x NBA All-Star, ROTY (1961), Only player to average a triple double for season.

Going to do one once a day.

VOTE COUNT:
Dirk Nowitzki: 7
Julius Erving: 5
Moses Malone: 13
Kevin Garnett: 4
Jerry West: 7
Charles Barkley: 1
Vince Carter: 1

[Milbuck]

http://i.imgur.com/YSeh2xR.gif

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1091354/dirktongue.gif

Dirk

[navy]

Dr J.

Dude gets slighted for playing in the ABA.

[Fudge]

Moses Malone

[Rocketswin2013]

Dr J.

Dude gets slighted for playing in the ABA.
His defense was absurd too. Scottie Pippen level.

[qrich]

Doctor Jay

[Rocketswin2013]

But I have to vote KG

[T_L_P]

Moses.

[DaSeba5]

I say Moses Malone.

[Dragic4Life]

Jerry West.

[TylerOO]

micheal carter williams

[MP.Trey]

Jerry West. He's the freaking logo for a reason.

[BlkMambaGOAT]

[IMG]
Going to do one once a day.

VOTE COUNT:
Dirk Nowitzki: 1
Julius Erving: 2
Moses Malone: 3
Kevin Garnett: 1
Jerry West: 1
Michael Carter-Williams: 1
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[K Xerxes]

Michael Carter-Williams

Let's get this ***** on the list!

[Cone]

dirk

[DaSeba5]

Michael Carter-Williams

Let's get this ***** on the list!

I was going to keep it up as a joke, but I took it off.

[Jlamb47]

KG

[ArbitraryWater]

Dirk

[Le Shaqtus]

Dirk.

[ArbitraryWater]

http://i.imgur.com/YSeh2xR.gif

Dirk

Where is the gif where he sticks his tongue out? Was complimentary

[inclinerator]

matthew deladadova

[Sakkreth]

Julius Erving

[DMV2]

Barkley

[kshutts1]

Have yet to vote in these threads, but I can't let Dirk beat out KG...

KG.

[Sakkreth]

Have yet to vote in these threads, but I can't let Dirk beat out KG...

KG.

KG is not top 20.

[kshutts1]

KG is not top 20.
We each have our own criteria and lists, but I have KG ranked identically to Duncan.

"Flame" all you want, but I don't concern myself with team accomplishments when rating players, and taking championships out of the equation leads me to believe that KG and Duncan are on the same tier (I do tiers) and Dirk is... well, behind them.

[Milbuck]

Where is the gif where he sticks his tongue out? Was complimentary
Shit I forgot. Edited.

[navy]

I already voted for Doctor J, but why on Earth would Dirk be above Jerry West?

[kshutts1]

I already voted for Doctor J, but why on Earth would Dirk be above Jerry West?
I love Dirk, and think he's a fabulous player, but I have no clue why people rank him higher than Doc or West or KG.

He's more in the 3rd or 4th tier in my opinion, which is no slight to him... puts him around the 20-25 mark. Hardly anything to be dissatisfied about.

[DaSeba5]

What's up with all the Dirk votes lately? I'm not saying he doesn't deserve it or anything, but I'm curious on why some of you rank him so high.

[Marchesk]

West

[ArbitraryWater]

I love Dirk, and think he's a fabulous player, but I have no clue why people rank him higher than Doc or West or KG.

He's more in the 3rd or 4th tier in my opinion, which is no slight to him... puts him around the 20-25 mark. Hardly anything to be dissatisfied about.

20-25? :facepalm

I think his total impact very much equals a Jerry West or Moses Malone... I don't see why he should be that low...

[Fudge]

Lol @ Dirk being ahead of Moses.

[kshutts1]

20-25? :facepalm

I think his total impact very much equals a Jerry West or Moses Malone... I don't see why he should be that low...
I never watched West or Moses, so just going on what I've heard/read...

But West was considered one of the premier defensive guards in the league for the entirety of his career. He was also one of the better scorers and passers, and supremely clutch.

Dirk is known as a scorer and clutch scorer, and a decent defensive player and solid rebounder. Just looking at that, I fail to see how he stacks up against West.

As for Moses Malone he, too, is in my 3rd/4th area, ranked very similarly to Dirk.

[K Xerxes]

Not sure why Dirk is being ranked so highly. I can see why he'd be top 20 to some people (he's not personally in mine), but at 13th?!

Anyway I'll go with Moses for this one. I think Oscar, Moses, West, Baylor and Erving are all in the same sort of tier here.

[ArbitraryWater]

I have Dirk 11... Can make arguments for him over Moses/West/Oscar

[navy]

Not sure why Dirk is being ranked so highly. I can see why he'd be top 20 to some people (he's not personally in mine), but at 13th?!

Anyway I'll go with Moses for this one. I think Oscar, Moses, West, Baylor and Erving are all in the same sort of tier here.
Good tier.

I dont think Dirk is better than David Robinson for that matter.

[IncarceratedBob]

Erving

[K Xerxes]

Good tier.

I dont think Dirk is better than David Robinson for that matter.

Me neither.

For the record, the next tier in would be: K Malone, Barkley, KG, Robinson.

That rounds off my top 20. All reasonable selections above Dirk IMO.

[navy]

Me neither.

For the record, the next tier in would be: K Malone, Barkley, KG, Robinson.

That rounds off my top 20. All reasonable selections above Dirk IMO.
I think it would be fair to include Dirk in this tier actually. None of these guys accomplished much more than Dirk or were that much better if at all.

[WillC]

Jerry West

[kshutts1]

I think it would be fair to include Dirk in this tier actually. None of these guys accomplished much more than Dirk or were that much better.
Disagree with that. Barkley and KG were most definitely better than Dirk. Dirk is more than a one-trick pony, for sure, but his skillset is not as varied as that of Barkley or KG, and both of those players enjoyed immense success and periods of absolute domination.

Not to mention Dirk's best weapon, his scoring, is fabulous... yet KG and Barkley score nearly as much while being better play-makers and, in KG's case, infinitely better defenders.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Moses Malone


side-note: Bird should be listed as SF/PF, since he spent like half of his career at PF, and was even more of a (terrific all-around) stretch 4.

[K Xerxes]

I think it would be fair to include Dirk in this tier actually. None of these guys accomplished much more than Dirk or were that much better.

I agree with you that Dirk has accomplished what these guys have (and maybe even more), but I disagree that they weren't better. To me, all of them were noticably better than Dirk in their heyday. Robinson and KG were flat out better overall two way players. Barkley wasn't that great defensively like Dirk, but his offense was on another level IMO. Dirk's prime/peak level is probably closest to Malone's, but Karl's longevity is obviously something virtually unparalleled in history.

[Mass Debator]

The Logo

[jlip]

Moses Malone

[r0drig0lac]

Dr. J

[stalkerforlife]

Dirk.

[nzahir]

moses

[MP.Trey]

I have Dirk 11... Can make arguments for him over Moses/West/Oscar
What arguments are they, then? Dirk was not as good all around on offense as either of those three(actually, maybe better than Moses). Significantly worse on defense than those three, average rebounder for his position/height and probably more clutch than 2/3.

So the only real advantage here is if you're voting Dirk in strictly for his clutch ability/performances, in which case, Jerry West still has to go before him.

I personally have KG over Dirk, Karl Malone is debatable, and I'm not planning on voting any of them in until 15-16 at the earliest. Because both trump Nowitzki in nearly everything except scoring. And Nowitzki doesn't have the outstanding accolades to push him forward.

[BoogieWoogieMan]

Moses Malone

[MrC1991]

Moses Malone

[Im so nba'd out]

Michael Carter Williams

[Im so nba'd out]

UPDATED VOTE COUNT:
Dirk Nowitzki: 5
Julius Erving: 5
Moses Malone: 7
Michael Carter Williams: 3
Kevin Garnett: 3
Jerry West: 5
Charles Barkley: 1

[stalkerforlife]

To those that watched a lot of Moses Malone, can you name a similar player that is playing today? (In terms of skill and all time ranking)

[Im so nba'd out]

To those that watched a lot of Moses Malone, can you name a similar player that is playing today? (In terms of skill and all time ranking)
A poor man's michael carter williams

[DaSeba5]

To those that watched a lot of Moses Malone, can you name a similar player that is playing today? (In terms of skill and all time ranking)

I don't think that there is.

[Smook A.]

Moses

[Kblaze8855]

There are 3 players already on this list who were considered worse than Moses Malone while in or somewhat near their primes.

And even then if you asked the people who saw them all to rank the best ever....Jerry West and Doctor J would be ahead of him.

But we have people voting for Dirk and KG....

If they had it his entire career Jerry West would be 10 time all NBA and All D first team(he made 5 all D teams when they added it late in his career).

This is one reason I dont often enter such discussions. One or two people get mentioned and a wave of votes follow without much justification.

This is how Gary Payton ended up in the 20s one list ahead of Willis Reed and others and how Kevin Johnson got in ahead of Dirk and a bunch of others.

[ArbitraryWater]

Disagree with that. Barkley and KG were most definitely better than Dirk. Dirk is more than a one-trick pony, for sure, but his skillset is not as varied as that of Barkley or KG, and both of those players enjoyed immense success and periods of absolute domination.

Not to mention Dirk's best weapon, his scoring, is fabulous... yet KG and Barkley score nearly as much while being better play-makers and, in KG's case, infinitely better defenders.

Funny... KG vs Dirk year-by-year:

2000: KG
2001: KG
2002: KG
2003: Dirk
2004: KG
2005: Dirk
2006: Dirk
2007: Dirk
2008: KG
2009: Dirk
2010: Dirk
2011: Dirk
2012: Dirk
2013: Dirk
2014: Dirk


But KG > Dirk doe.. Dirk one trick pony doe

[ArbitraryWater]

What arguments are they, then? Dirk was not as good all around on offense as either of those three(actually, maybe better than Moses). Significantly worse on defense than those three, average rebounder for his position/height and probably more clutch than 2/3.

So the only real advantage here is if you're voting Dirk in strictly for his clutch ability/performances, in which case, Jerry West still has to go before him.

I personally have KG over Dirk, Karl Malone is debatable, and I'm not planning on voting any of them in until 15-16 at the earliest. Because both trump Nowitzki in nearly everything except scoring. And Nowitzki doesn't have the outstanding accolades to push him forward.

Moses, Malone, Barkley and KG were just not "better players"....they are not on a different tier. There is almost nothing to back that up.

After Duncan you can place them in any order. I'd say Dirk winning the title in legendary fashion and being the best playoff performer of the group might be enough to break the tie. Because he is. He IS the best playoff Performer of the 5 and will give you the best chance at a title. I mean, all he needed was a defensive Center and he won you the title. Dirk wasn't a worse Player in 2009 or 2010, but 2011 would still create more stories with the beating of the Miami Heat.

And this defense / " one trick pony" stuff is funny...

Barkley was in no way a better Defender than Dirk.
Malone was a better defender, but not by much. He wasn't KG or Duncan...

People here STILL underrate Dirk.

11 straight 50 win seasons (been done only by Magic/Kareem, Duncan, Russell, and was broken up by the lockout year, injury year and 49 wins in 2014.)
1 of 3 teams to make it out of the West from 1999-2011
1 of 4 players to average over 25 and 10 for his career in the Playoffs (26/10)
Led the worst team to ever win 67+ games
One of the 5 best elimination game players ever
One of the 5 best game 7 players ever (Just now in 2014 lost his first to the Champions)

And all of that playing with decent but not great teams and coaches. Just complimentary casts, shooters, role players... Dirk is a player who you can do that with, and still get in the playoffs and contend. LeBron also. Guys that can go far with shooters, complimentary role players.

He's one of the most durable star players ever, and on his way to a great "prime longevity" as I call it... Just in his 15th season and he was still a top 6 Player! (LeBron/KD/Griffin/Paul/Howard... Wouldn't take anyone else over Dirk)
Playing in something like 98% of all his games.

Is it okay to rank the likes of Barkley, Malone, and KG over Dirk? Yes... But it's also okay to not. Same Tier.

Dirk's Defense is his only

[StephHamann]

http://i.imgur.com/YSeh2xR.gif

[ArbitraryWater]

I would love for people to argue for their guy to be honest... Like on RealGM :D

[DaSeba5]

I would love for people to argue for their guy to be honest... Like on RealGM :D

Wishful thinking lol

[Shade8780]

http://d1warraxuf7xh1.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/jerry-west.jpg

[MP.Trey]

I'm on my phone and don't have time to pick that apart or anything AW. But I will say this, maybe Dirk is a better rebounder than I give him credit for, but still not up the level of either of the Malones. I know he's not a bad defender, but average doesn't do it when you're talking top 12-15 imo.

I never even mentioned Barkley because I believe Dirk is clearly better.


Dirk does not however, give you a better chance at winning a championship than Jerry West, that is undebatable. Mr. Clutch, the man who went to 9 finals, and still holds the finals record for points scored easily trumps Dirk who has only been to two finals and has the dubious distinction of losing as the MVP of a 67 win #1 seed. That has to hurt his legacy. Oscar is debatable.Moses & KG debatable. I'll give you K.Malone but his incredible consistency counts for a lot.

I'm a Dirk fan. I love watching him and like his game. I just don't see Dirk as top 15. I won't be convinced unless he puts in work for his last few seasons which is certainly possible.

[Iceman#44]

moses

[played0ut]

this part is when it gets tricky.


I'll vote for Jerry West

[zoom17]

Moses Malone

[ArbitraryWater]

I'm on my phone and don't have time to pick that apart or anything AW. But I will say this, maybe Dirk is a better rebounder than I give him credit for, but still not up the level of either of the Malones. I know he's not a bad defender, but average doesn't do it when you're talking top 12-15 imo.

I never even mentioned Barkley because I believe Dirk is clearly better.


Dirk does not however, give you a better chance at winning a championship than Jerry West, that is undebatable. Mr. Clutch, the man who went to 9 finals, and still holds the finals record for points scored easily trumps Dirk who has only been to two finals and has the dubious distinction of losing as the MVP of a 67 win #1 seed. That has to hurt his legacy. Oscar is debatable.Moses & KG debatable. I'll give you K.Malone but his incredible consistency counts for a lot.

I'm a Dirk fan. I love watching him and like his game. I just don't see Dirk as top 15. I won't be convinced unless he puts in work for his last few seasons which is certainly possible.

Okay, I can dig that... West was an amazing playoff and finals performer, and a 2-way player.. But the all of the others don't necessarily have to be above Dirk... All I'm saying. There can be made a great argument for the Big German.

[MP.Trey]

Okay, I can dig that... West was an amazing playoff and finals performer, and a 2-way player.. But the all of the others don't necessarily have to be above Dirk... All I'm saying. There can be made a great argument for the Big German.
You made a better argument than expected and I think I just overreacted to the influx of Dirk votes so early and underrated Dirk a bit. :cheers:

KG/Dirk/Malone is a tough trio to rank for me and I personally have Oscar, West &Moses over them. Completely forgot Baylor. Who's lack of mentions is saddening.

[magnax1]

Moses.

[creepingdeath]

Dirk

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Kevin Garnett

[Fiddlesticks]

Vince Carter

[moe94]

Moses

lmfao @ Dirk drones overrating dude

[Im so nba'd out]

Michael Carter Williams

[ArbitraryWater]

Moses

lmfao @ Dirk drones overrating dude

Make some arguments instead of the usual ish like shitty one liners clown.. "Moses"

Well wow you just changed my mind, moe! I'm backing off Dirk and taking Moses now.. good job

:facepalm

[moe94]

Make some arguments instead of the usual ish like shitty one liners clown.. "Moses"

Well wow you just changed my mind, moe! I'm backing off Dirk and taking Moses now.. good job

:facepalm

You're fvcking retarded if you think Dirk had a better career than Moses or was even comparable to him. :whatever:

[ArbitraryWater]

You're fvcking retarded if you think Dirk had a better career than Moses or was even comparable to him. :whatever:

I am fully convinced now.. The "fvcking retarded" really shifted me over to Moses... ISH is too simplistic for a poster like you :applause:

:hammerhead:


This crap of "Not even comparable" is the usual garbage you get from guys who can't even argue to begin with... Just the fact that Dirk is a better playoff performer is a huge argument in itself

[moe94]

What exactly makes Dirk higher? His defensive teams? More championships? More MVPs? Greater dominance? Exactly what?

[ArbitraryWater]

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]Moses, Malone, Barkley and KG were just not "better players"....they are not on a different tier. There is almost nothing to back that up.

After Duncan you can place them in any order. I'd say Dirk winning the title in legendary fashion and being the best playoff performer of the group might be enough to break the tie. Because he is. He IS the best playoff Performer of the 5 and will give you the best chance at a title. I mean, all he needed was a defensive Center and he won you the title. Dirk wasn't a worse Player in 2009 or 2010, but 2011 would still create more stories with the beating of the Miami Heat.

And this defense / " one trick pony" stuff is funny...

Barkley was in no way a better Defender than Dirk.
Malone was a better defender, but not by much. He wasn't KG or Duncan...

People here STILL underrate Dirk.

11 straight 50 win seasons (been done only by Magic/Kareem, Duncan, Russell, and was broken up by the lockout year, injury year and 49 wins in 2014.)
1 of 3 teams to make it out of the West from 1999-2011
1 of 4 players to average over 25 and 10 for his career in the Playoffs (26/10)
Led the worst team to ever win 67+ games
One of the 5 best elimination game players ever
One of the 5 best game 7 players ever (Just now in 2014 lost his first to the Champions)

And all of that playing with decent but not great teams and coaches. Just complimentary casts, shooters, role players... Dirk is a player who you can do that with, and still get in the playoffs and contend. LeBron also. Guys that can go far with shooters, complimentary role players.

He's one of the most durable star players ever, and on his way to a great "prime longevity" as I call it... Just in his 15th season and he was still a top 6 Player! (LeBron/KD/Griffin/Paul/Howard... Wouldn't take anyone else over Dirk)
Playing in something like 98% of all his games.

Is it okay to rank the likes of Barkley, Malone, and KG over Dirk? Yes... But it's also okay to not. Same Tier.

Dirk's Defense is his only

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I love Dirk and will probably be voting for him once KG gets in...But what makes you say Dirk is better than KG?

[ArbitraryWater]

I love Dirk and will probably be voting for him once KG gets in...But what makes you say Dirk is better than KG?

My Argument still stands... Irrelevant of who you're comparing him to... Moses or KG, as I feel they're all in the same Tier.

I get the Moses Argument, or KG one, but what's hilarious to me is when people like moe act like there is no case to be made and they're not even comparable to begin with, and than can't even make an Argument.

[aj1987]

LOL! Even DMAVS can admit that Wade and Dirk are pretty close all time and the only thing separating them is Drik's incredible longevity and Wade's injuries. If Dirk is top 15, so is Wade.

[russwest0]

Lol Dirk is far above Wade.

2 championships as "the guy" >>>>>>> two as the sidekick.

[aj1987]

I don't think DMAVS will agree with Dirk and Wade being the same Tier.. I surely don't. Don't be ridiculous. Dirk now at 36 is still a better Player than Wade who entered the league 5 years later than him :oldlol:
Wade came into the league when he was 22 and Dirk was 20. Don't want to go over this again, but you must be flat out retarded to say that Wade and Dirk are not the same time. If anything, Wade is a tier above him.

[ArbitraryWater]

Wade came into the league when he was 22 and Dirk was 20. Don't want to go over this again, but you must be flat out retarded to say that Wade and Dirk are not the same time. If anything, Wade is a tier above him.

Oh my god, so you have Wade above Dirk all-time?

Time to stop posting.

[aj1987]

Oh my god, so you have Wade above Dirk all-time?

Time to stop posting.
Time for you to stop sucking Dirk's and LeBron's dick, dude. Wade and Dirk are pretty close all time and you wouldn't be wrong picking either one of them.

EDIT: ****ing hell. Almost 50 posts a day over an eight month stretch? It's time YOU stopped posting.

[ArbitraryWater]

Time for you to stop sucking Dirk's and LeBron's dick, dude. Wade and Dirk are pretty close all time and you wouldn't be wrong picking either one of them.

EDIT: ****ing hell. Almost 50 posts a day over an eight month stretch? It's time YOU stopped posting.

:oldlol:

Dude you have Wade above Dirk all time... Log off, please.

[aj1987]

:oldlol:

Dude you have Wade above Dirk all time... Log off, please.
Could say the say about your dumbass. You have LeBron above Kobe all time. I should actually bump up a few of your threads from last season.

[russwest0]

Wade above Dirk?

WADE???

That broken down scrub who never did anything but HOLD LEBRON BACK on the MIAMI CAVALIERS?

Get a fukking grip dude....

[ArbitraryWater]

Could say the say about your dumbass. You have LeBron above Kobe all time. I should actually bump up a few of your threads from last season.

Ohhhhhh how controversial :rolleyes:

What threads? Anyway, I'm sure you made plenty pro LeBron arguments on that same subject lmfao

[russwest0]

yeah if you have lebron over kobe alltime then you are a certified dipshit

[aj1987]

Ohhhhhh how controversial :rolleyes:

What threads? Anyway, I'm sure you made plenty pro LeBron arguments on that same subject lmfao
When I'm talking to reasonable posters who aren't trolls, I do rank Kobe above LeBron all time.

Doesn't change the fact that Dirk in the top 15 is just stupid.

[Harison]

Dr. J

[Y2ktors]

Jerry West

[tmacattack33]

Julius Erving

[kshutts1]

Funny... KG vs Dirk year-by-year:

2000: KG
2001: KG
2002: KG
2003: Dirk
2004: KG
2005: Dirk
2006: Dirk
2007: Dirk
2008: KG
2009: Dirk
2010: Dirk
2011: Dirk
2012: Dirk
2013: Dirk
2014: Dirk


But KG > Dirk doe.. Dirk one trick pony doe
What are these rankings? Your personal view?

[kshutts1]

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]Moses, Malone, Barkley and KG were just not "better players"....they are not on a different tier. There is almost nothing to back that up.

After Duncan you can place them in any order.(1) I'd say Dirk winning the title in legendary fashion and being the best playoff performer of the group might be enough to break the tie. Because he is. He IS the best playoff Performer of the 5 and will give you the best chance at a title. I mean, all he needed was a defensive Center and he won you the title. Dirk wasn't a worse Player in 2009 or 2010, but 2011 would still create more stories with the beating of the Miami Heat.

And this defense / " one trick pony"(2) stuff is funny...

Barkley was in no way a better Defender than Dirk.(3)
Malone was a better defender, but not by much. He wasn't KG or Duncan...

People here STILL underrate Dirk.

11 straight 50 win seasons (been done only by Magic/Kareem, Duncan, Russell, and was broken up by the lockout year, injury year and 49 wins in 2014.)
1 of 3 teams to make it out of the West from 1999-2011(4a)
1 of 4 players to average over 25 and 10 for his career in the Playoffs (26/10)
Led the worst team to ever win 67+ games (4b)
One of the 5 best elimination game players ever
One of the 5 best game 7 players ever (Just now in 2014 lost his first to the Champions)(5)

And all of that playing with decent but not great teams and coaches. Just complimentary casts, shooters, role players...(6) Dirk is a player who you can do that with, and still get in the playoffs and contend. LeBron also. Guys that can go far with shooters, complimentary role players.

He's one of the most durable star players ever, and on his way to a great "prime longevity" as I call it... Just in his 15th season and he was still a top 6 Player!(7) (LeBron/KD/Griffin/Paul/Howard... Wouldn't take anyone else over Dirk)
Playing in something like 98% of all his games.

Is it okay to rank the likes of Barkley, Malone, and KG over Dirk? Yes... But it's also okay to not. Same Tier.

Dirk's Defense is his only

[ArbitraryWater]

How is that an excuse? Dirk plays out on the perimeter, he can't really grab any offensive rebounds... What do you mean, "excuse" ? Their defensive rebounding numbers are similar so this is only logical..

Edit: No, that's not the same at all... There are no "bad players", so bad that you can't get assists.. THAT'S an excuse. LeBron averaged 8.6 APG on the 2010 Cavaliers, please. That's the most ever from a non PG.

But simply playing around the perimeter eliminates you from offensive rebounding.

[kshutts1]

How is that an excuse? Dirk plays out on the perimeter, he can't really grab any offensive rebounds... What do you mean, "excuse" ? Their defensive rebounding numbers are similar so this is only logical..
I did say it was valid. Just still an excuse.

Akin to saying Player X didn't get more assists because he doesn't have good teammates. Valid, but an excuse.

Or Player Y would be considered one of the best 3p shooters in the game, if he took more 3s (for arguments sake, let's say he shot 40% on minimal attempts). Again, valid point, but still an excuse.

Perhaps the word "excuse" is too strong. But while you're stating a very valid argument, it's not as cut-and-dry as you make it seem.