View Full Version : Great article on NBA Top 20 players
http://hoopshabit.com/2014/08/05/dallas-mavericks-ranking-dirk-nowitzki-among-greats/
I usually don't comment in any of the ranking threads because, first: it is a very subjective and emotional business, and 2nd I admit that I don't have that deep knowledge in bball finesses to rank all these great players.
The article is primarily about where Dirk ranks, but at least the author stated his standards for his ranking, which I found reasonable.
I'll quote the author last words
What are your thoughts on this list? Do you think Dirk even deserves to be in the top-20? Do you think a player was left out? Let’s have a discussion about it.
Disclosure: I am a Dallas/Dirk fan.
I think Dirk is now higher than Robinson and if he finishes 6th in the scorer list he'll get Karl Malone.
If he wins another title with the Mavs (only Mavs), I agree with the author that he'll be a borderline top 10
Dirk isnt reaching the top 10. Especially when you consider that Lebron Kobe and Hakeem are not on all top 10 list.
Mass Debator
08-06-2014, 02:48 PM
Dirk isnt reaching the top 10. Especially when you consider that Lebron Kobe and Hakeem have been are not on all top 10 list.
Yeah, even the Big O.
yeah I also believe that he isn't going into top 10. As I said I almost agree with the author (he lists him at 17, I at 16).
But I also believe that after retirement he has a strong case to be in the Top 15.
K Xerxes
08-06-2014, 02:59 PM
Wilt must have be an accidental snub if you include the likes of Baylor and Robertson in here.
Anyway, here's 20 players off the top of my head I personally think could easily be ranked higher than Dirk:
[Consensus top 11]
M Malone, Oscar, West, Erving, Baylor
K Malone, Barkley, KG, Robinson
There's probably a couple more too. So I don't think it's a foregone conclusion Dirk is in the top 20 honestly. I don't have him in mine.
top 15 or so for me. very underrated, and never had a hof player in his prime to play with and was still very successful
easily higher than KG
Wilt must have be an accidental snub if you include the likes of Baylor and Robertson in here.
My bad, haven't noticed that, I mainly looked at the 11-20 players.
So, I have Dirk 1 rank lower now, but still put him top 20 with the chance to go top 15.
kshutts1
08-06-2014, 03:07 PM
Wilt and Rick Barry were not even mentioned. So the list loses all credibility right there.
And everyone is welcome to their own opinions and theories behind ranking players, but his are some of the sillier ones I've heard.
"If you have championships, you’re good. If you are ringless and have great stats, you’re on the fence." -- Yes, because winning is totally a one-man thing.
"I think Baylor will be left off the top 20 based off the era he played in and never winning a title. " -- Era? Is this guy from ISH?
"Jerry West is the logo, and no more needs to be said there." -- Yup. No one that is the logo could ever be worse than top 20 all time, particularly with literally 1000's of players playing after he was chosen to be the logo...
"Isiah Thomas is, arguably, the greatest small point guard to ever play in an era dominated by the Lakers and Celtics. "
"Is Isiah Thomas’ height a problem when comparing him to Dirk?" -- So his size makes him a worse player? Forget what he accomplished. (To be fair, I say Dirk is better than him, though... just an argument I disagree with).
"John Havlicek won eight championships with the Celtics, but it was mainly Bill Russell’s Celtics during the ’60s." -- But I thought that "if you have rings, you're good"?
Can't believe I missed this quote...
"Karl Malone stays ahead of Dirk because of his points. " -- But I thought winning is what mattered? Is it winning or scoring?
ArbitraryWater
08-06-2014, 07:09 PM
Wilt must have be an accidental snub if you include the likes of Baylor and Robertson in here.
Anyway, here's 20 players off the top of my head I personally think could easily be ranked higher than Dirk:
[Consensus top 11]
M Malone, Oscar, West, Erving, Baylor
K Malone, Barkley, KG, Robinson
There's probably a couple more too. So I don't think it's a foregone conclusion Dirk is in the top 20 honestly. I don't have him in mine.
How you can have Baylor, Erving or Robinson above Dirk is beyond me.
TheMarkMadsen
08-06-2014, 07:26 PM
never had a hof player in his prime to
He had Steve Nash for years & as soon as Nash left he became a 2x MVP & knocked Dirk out of the playoffs in 05.
Cuban was always willing to spend money to put help around dirk. Fact is its just hard to build around a 7 footer who is a softie on offense and doesn't have a traditional big man game on offense.
Dirk had 2 all star guards around him for a long stretch. Did nothing.
ArbitraryWater
08-06-2014, 07:30 PM
He had Steve Nash for years & as soon as Nash left he became a 2x MVP & knocked Dirk out of the playoffs in 05.
Cuban was always willing to spend money to put help around dirk. Fact is its just hard to build around a 7 footer who is a softie on offense and doesn't have a traditional big man game on offense.
Dirk had 2 all star guards around him for a long stretch. Did nothing.
Dirk entered his prime in 2001, and got 1 great year out of Nash in 2003... In which he went down in the WCF injured, with a tight series going on against SAS... Otherwise you got some good chances to see Dallas win the 'chip. Stop bullshitting.
From 2005 on his 2nd best player has been Jason Terry...
TheMarkMadsen
08-06-2014, 07:36 PM
Dirk entered his prime in 2001, and got 1 great year out of Nash in 2003... In which he went down in the WCF injured, with a tight series going on against SAS... Otherwise you got some good chances to see Dallas win the 'chip. Stop bullshitting.
From 2005 on his 2nd best player has been Jason Terry...
Nash was all nba in 02 as well as 03.
Finley was an all star in 01 and was still a 19/5/4 guy for years after.
Dirk was in his prime with 2 a stars & a guy who would go on to be the only repeat MVP in the nba since Ducan & MJ and still did nothing + couldn't stay healthy.
ArbitraryWater
08-06-2014, 07:46 PM
Nash was all nba in 02 as well as 03.
Finley was an all star in 01 and was still a 19/5/4 guy for years after.
Dirk was in his prime with 2 a stars & a guy who would go on to be the only repeat MVP in the nba since Ducan & MJ and still did nothing + couldn't stay healthy.
I'm sure 3rd year Kobe should/would have done more than Dirk did in 2001 :rolleyes:
"couldn't stay healthy" lmfaoo :roll:
Stepped on Malik rose's ankle and injured himself, couldn't stay healthy..
Your analogy is old and full of shit.. Properly analyze the guy before you go over to old cliches like "He couldn't win even though he had this and that guy"..
TheMarkMadsen
08-06-2014, 08:33 PM
I'm sure 3rd year Kobe should/would have done more than Dirk did in 2001 :rolleyes:
"couldn't stay healthy" lmfaoo :roll:
Stepped on Malik rose's ankle and injured himself, couldn't stay healthy..
Your analogy is old and full of shit.. Properly analyze the guy before you go over to old cliches like "He couldn't win even though he had this and that guy"..
Why are you bringing up Kobe? :lol :lol
You're the one who said that in 2001 dirk was in his prime...
I never said 2000 Kobe was prime Kobe? way to just change the discussion & creat a false argument since you're getting owned..
Dirk was playing with 2 all star guards in his prime. Since when is that not any help? Cuban has always been willing to spend money, dirk is just tough to build around because he had so many holes in his game for the longest time
And yeah, give Kobe an all star center and a power forward who could win b2b league MVPs and he most certainly does more than dirk did.
SexSymbol
08-06-2014, 08:37 PM
How you can have Baylor, Erving or Robinson above Dirk is beyond me.
If you count Dr.J's ABA years as you should, there's no argument there.
Baylor has some statistical dominance, but only old timers would put him over Dirk.
Robinson definitely reached Dirk's peak levels and was better defensively, if you don't factor in winning as some people do.
There's different reasons and different scenarios to have anybody over anybody
ArbitraryWater
08-06-2014, 08:57 PM
Why are you bringing up Kobe? :lol :lol
You're the one who said that in 2001 dirk was in his prime...
I never said 2000 Kobe was prime Kobe? way to just change the discussion & creat a false argument since you're getting owned..
Dirk was playing with 2 all star guards in his prime. Since when is that not any help? Cuban has always been willing to spend money, dirk is just tough to build around because he had so many holes in his game for the longest time
And yeah, give Kobe an all star center and a power forward who could win b2b league MVPs and he most certainly does more than dirk did.
Because Kobe is on Dirk's tier... I'm comparing similar players impact wise.
Bolded are the funniest parts of your post.
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