ISH Poll: Kyrie or Lillard

[SamuraiSWISH]

To me they're near identical as players. Who do you pick?

[IncarceratedBob]

KI. And it isn't close.

[MastaKilla]

Well majority of ISH picked Kyrie over Westbrook about a year ago, so this should be easy right?

[Cavalier]

If they're nearly identical you gotta go with Kyrie, who is two years younger. Although I like Dame a lot, he's so damn calm and cold-blooded.

[Le Shaqtus]

D Lil

[kshutts1]

Based on what we've seen so far, I struggle to even think of a single argument for Lillard.

Projecting into the future, I still choose Kyrie, but there I can see legitimate arguments for either.

[Inferno]

tossup, but Lillard has my hometown bias

[HylianNightmare]

Illard

[Mass Debator]

Kyrie by a hair.

[dubeta]

Lillard is MUCH better

his game is suited to "winning" especially in playoff games

kyrie is more streetball ie. statpadding without much impact

[navy]

Kyrie. Maybe.

Although the gap between the two is minimal.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I still think Kyrie has more game in him (and will be the better PEAK player), but Lillard has impressed me more.

http://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/assets/4398543/portland.gif
^on some legend ish

[stalkerforlife]

Lillard right now.

[NattyPButter]

Lillard is MUCH better

his game is suited to "winning" especially in playoff games

kyrie is more streetball ie. statpadding without much impact

much better at what besides chucking? his stats are not even changing much his first tow years. Dude can't even get a decent FG%.

[Lebronxrings]

lillard.


Kyrie is not even a top 12 PG, much less in lillards league.

[Lebronxrings]

this isn't even close. Lillards got his team to the playoffs, has hit clutch shots.

Kyrie hasn't made the playoffs and stats pads hard to make himself look good.

[Inferno]

much better at what besides chucking? his stats are not even changing much his first tow years. Dude can't even get a decent FG%.

Higher TS% than Kyrie, and Kyrie's FG% has decreased every year :coleman:

[navy]

much better at what besides chucking? his stats are not even changing much his first tow years. Dude can't even get a decent FG%.
Hmm...He takes/makes enough threes to give him a slight appease on FG%. Although his finishing is bad so not that much.

[Le Shaqtus]

lillard.


Kyrie is not even a top 12 PG, much less in lillards league.

Degrading Bron's team mates already :oldlol:

[inclinerator]

not identical at all, kyrie has more potential

lillard is a short guy that likes to shoot

[Jailblazers7]

much better at what besides chucking? his stats are not even changing much his first tow years. Dude can't even get a decent FG%.

Lillard's stats (looking at advanced metrics) got markedly better across the board last season while Kyrie has seemed to regress ever since his rookie year.

[navy]

not identical at all, kyrie has more potential

lillard is a short guy that likes to shoot

Potential is overrated. Results matter.

I dont think Kyrie's potential is much better than Lillards either....

[MP.Trey]

Well majority of ISH picked Kyrie over Westbrook about a year ago, so this should be easy right?
Funny, this thread from three months ago between Kyrie-Lillard and nearly EVERYBODY in the thread minus Cavs fans said Lillard.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=337794

Crazy how fast shit changes if your claim is true. :oldlol: Guess that would make Lillard > Westbrook.

[qrich]

Lizzard

[Lebronxrings]

Degrading Bron's team mates already :oldlol:
Its true

Hes not in lillards league and not a top 12 PG.

[MP.Trey]

And Kyrie's the easy pick here personally even though I'm somewhat biased.

He has more NBA experience despite being younger and still having a ton of potential. Is the better ball handler, finisher at the rim. Both are fantastic three point shooters with less than desirable defense. Lillard's more athletic and has made waves in the playoffs though, which is enough to give him the ISH consensus.

[MannyO]

Funny, this thread from three months ago between Kyrie-Lillard and nearly EVERYBODY in the thread minus Cavs fans said Lillard.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=337794

Crazy how fast shit changes if your claim is true. :oldlol: Guess that would make Lillard > Westbrook.


:lol Exactly, I saw this thread and thought people will pick Lillard without hestating. I guess I was wrong. Lebron's decision to go back probably elevated Irving already

[navy]

:lol Exactly, I saw this thread and thought people will pick Lillard without hestating. I guess I was wrong. Lebron's decision to go back probably elevated Irving already
Understandable. Kyrie was not only putting up subpar stats he was also not winning games.

[MP.Trey]

Understandable. Kyrie was not only putting up subpar stats he was also not winning games.
ISH, where 21/6/4 on 53%TS with 1.5 steals, a career high in assists and career low in turnovers in 35 minutes a game is sub-par.

[navy]

ISH, where 21/6/4 on 53%TS with 1.5 steals, a career high in assists and career low in turnovers in 35 minutes a game is sub-par.
How many players could average numbers around there as a first option and win just 33 games?

That is subpar.

[MastaKilla]

Funny, this thread from three months ago between Kyrie-Lillard and nearly EVERYBODY in the thread minus Cavs fans said Lillard.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=337794

Crazy how fast shit changes if your claim is true. :oldlol: Guess that would make Lillard > Westbrook.

That thread was made 2 weeks after Lillard hit the most clutch shot of the entire playoffs and eliminated a team ISH hates..

[MP.Trey]

That thread was made 2 weeks after Lillard hit the most clutch shot of the entire playoffs and eliminated a team ISH hates..
Point being?

[NattyPButter]

Have Kyrie and Lillard switch teams and see who can get their team further. Kyrie on that Blazers team would have went further in the playoffs. Lillard's team has a lot of good players.

[navy]

Have Kyrie and Lillard switch teams and see who can get their team further. Kyrie on that Blazers team would have went further in the playoffs. Lillard's team has a lot of good players.
Kyrie would have beat the Spurs?

[noob cake]

Irving is on a different stratosphere.

He is a future hall of famer. Lillard would be lucky to become anymore than an all-star.

Lillard is so much older than Irving.

[Inferno]

Have Kyrie and Lillard switch teams and see who can get their team further. Kyrie on that Blazers team would have went further in the playoffs. Lillard's team has a lot of good players.

He wouldn't get past the Spurs :coleman:

And Lillard averaged 26/6/7 on 47/49/88 shooting in the 1st round, with multiple clutch shots. He elevated his game in literally every aspect. Apart from LMA's amazing Games 1+2, Lillard was the heart of the team in the 1st round. Would Kyrie be able to perform as well against Houston?

[navy]

Irving is on a different stratosphere.

He is a future hall of famer. Lillard would be lucky to become anymore than an all-star.

Lillard is so much older than Irving.
:biggums:

How have you guys mythologized a player this much?

HOF? Different stratosphere? What the fvck.

[Meticode]

While Irving and Lillard almost cancel each other out, they play much different roles on their teams.

Irving is almost 2 years younger than Lillard, but has been in the league 3 years compared to Lillard's two years. Lillard is slightly more athletic, I think Irving is the slightly better shooter and ball-handler.

Both play defensive sub-par.

Irving was asked to be the main focus on offense and create shots, while Lillard got to be a second option behind a top 5 big-man in Aldridge.

Give me Irving.

[Dreamin]

Kyrie on that Blazers team would have went further in the playoffs.

See you say this, yet have no proof to back this up. Why would he have taken them farther? You think he would have gotten them past the spurs?

[Inferno]

While Irving and Lillard almost cancel each other out, they play much different roles on their teams.

Irving is almost 2 years younger than Lillard, but has been in the league 3 years compared to Lillard's two years. Lillard is slightly more athletic, I think Irving is the slightly better shooter and ball-handler.

Both play defensive sub-par.

Irving was asked to be the main focus on offense and create shots, while Lillard got to be a second option behind a top 5 big-man in Aldridge.

Give me Irving.

Yeah it'll be interesting to see how Irving does with Bron + Love

[Meticode]

Yeah it'll be interesting to see how Irving does with Bron + Love
He HAS to work on his catch and shoot ability. He was rated near the bottom in terms of efficiency in catch-and-shoot situations. He's going to get a lot of shots like this. Mo Williams efficiency went through the roof when he was put into that situation.

[StephHamann]

Lilliard is better right now, and he has proven to play effective in meaningful games (aka playoffs)

Irving never played in a meaningful NBA game yet, but he is younger and i think his potential is bigger than Lilliards.

[noob cake]

:biggums:

How have you guys mythologized a player this much?

HOF? Different stratosphere? What the fvck.

Trajectory dude: http://www.fearthesword.com/2012/5/28/3048324/a-statistical-look-at-kyrie-irvings-rookie-season

Irving is in elite company: Jordan, Magic, Robertson

Don't even need to look at just the stats. Look at the team, the situation, the play, and the skillset. Take off the baby blue shades and judge Irving as a player based on his skills, not as a Cavs or a Dukie.

A bunch of ignorant posters love to point out how clutch and sucessful LIllard has been in the playoffs, but fail to realize that not every young point guard has had an oppertunity to play in a meaningful playoff series while being carried by a top 5 PF in the league.

[Lebronxrings]

Irving is on a different stratosphere.

He is a future hall of famer. Lillard would be lucky to become anymore than an all-star.

Lillard is so much older than Irving.
:facepalm

[navy]

Trajectory dude: http://www.fearthesword.com/2012/5/28/3048324/a-statistical-look-at-kyrie-irvings-rookie-season

Irving is in elite company: Jordan, Magic, Robertson

Don't even need to look at just the stats. Look at the team, the situation, the play, and the skillset. Take off the baby blue shades and judge Irving as a player based on his skills, not as a Cavs or a Dukie.

A bunch of ignorant posters love to point out how clutch and sucessful LIllard has been in the playoffs, but fail to realize that not every young point guard has had an oppertunity to play in a meaningful playoff series while being carried by a top 5 PF in the league.

:biggums:

:roll:

I'm done.

[noob cake]

:biggums:

:roll:

I'm done.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Star_Game_Most_Valuable_Player_Award

Denial is a powerful thing.

It is really difficult for you to sell that narrative that Irving is some scrub who just happens to achieve many things HOFers and top 20 players were able to.

[Inferno]

Trajectory dude: http://www.fearthesword.com/2012/5/28/3048324/a-statistical-look-at-kyrie-irvings-rookie-season

Irving is in elite company: Jordan, Magic, Robertson

Don't even need to look at just the stats. Look at the team, the situation, the play, and the skillset. Take off the baby blue shades and judge Irving as a player based on his skills, not as a Cavs or a Dukie.

A bunch of ignorant posters love to point out how clutch and sucessful LIllard has been in the playoffs, but fail to realize that not every young point guard has had an oppertunity to play in a meaningful playoff series while being carried by a top 5 PF in the league.

26/6/7 on 47/49/88 shooting in the 1st round is being carried? :biggums: :biggums:

IIRC LMA shot like 40% for the rest of the playoffs apart from Game 1 and 2

[Milbuck]

This is the type of shit that's gonna be a hilarious bump next year and beyond. I would take Lillard right now..but Kyrie's younger and he's about to play with a level of talent that he's never had before. Wouldn't be surprised if he takes the next step this season.

[Unstoppabull]

Neither, Chris Paul. I'll Kyrie, he's like 2 years younger, and also arguably better a bit. Not a lot of people's been paying atttention to him because he's playing for a shitty team

[Meticode]

Neither, Chris Paul. I'll Kyrie, he's like 2 years younger, and also arguably better a bit. Not a lot of people's been paying atttention to him because he's playing for a shitty team
You said neither, then pick Irving. :lol

[MastaKilla]

Point being?

Prisoners of the moment.

Lillard was in the playoffs and had just hit a huge shot that the nba was buzzing about for weeks.

Kyrie was at home.

[SamuraiSWISH]

not identical at all, kyrie has more potential
Both are very similar. Just different aesthetics. But impact wise both are scoring PGs who don't play defense particularly well, or even distribute well considering their penetrating abilities.


lillard is a short guy that likes to shoot
So is Kyrie Irving ... you retarded or something?

[qrich]

:biggums:

How have you guys mythologized a player this much?

HOF? Different stratosphere? What the fvck.

It's because Lillard bent the entire city of Houston over.

[Smook A.]

Irving and Lillard are guys who have superstar potential. Though they're not big playmakers, they can score at will. For me, this is kinda though because they're pretty similar player-wise.

Good scorers...Yes
Good defenders...No. They're below average on that end
Good playmakers...Not good, but not bad either. They both give you 5-7 apg

In the end, if I had to choose the better player between the two, I would probably go with Irving. Why? Well he's younger (Lillard is 24 and Irving is 22) and I feel like he had a down year last year. His ppg went down and so did his fg%. The Kyrie Irving we'll see next season is the one that played in 2012-13. That was only his 2nd year and he put up 22.5 ppg and 6 apg on 45% shooting. I see him improving from there on out.

Another reason why I would pick Kyrie is because he's a better finisher at the rim and is a better ball handler.


this isn't even close. Lillards got his team to the playoffs, has hit clutch shots.

Kyrie hasn't made the playoffs and stats pads hard to make himself look good.
Yes, Lillard has gotten his team to the playoffs and I understand that Kyrie hasn't yet. That doesn't mean he's the better player... I mean you gotta look at the supporting cast. Lillard's was definitely more packed than Kyrie's. The Cavs' second best player last year was a 2nd year player, Dion Waiters. Damian Lillard had one of the best power forwards in the game, LaMarcus Aldridge, and had a bunch of good role players (Nic Batum, Wes Matthews, Robin Lopez, etc)

Some people always say so and so is the better player because his team gets more wins. You gotta look at that guy's supporting cast too.

[jzek]

Kyrie will become the face of the league one of these years. He'll be regarded in the same breath as Kobe and LeBron. A superduperstar.

Lilliard will be just like any other generic All Star. "Only" a superstar but not a superduperstar like Kyrie.

[Milbuck]

Kyrie will become the face of the league one of these years. He'll be regarded in the same breath as Kobe and LeBron. A superduperstar.

Lilliard will be just like any other generic All Star. "Only" a superstar but not a superduperstar like Kyrie.
Do you have anything to base this on?

Same breath as Kobe and Lebron :oldlol: ...Kobe at 22 put up 29/6/5/2/1 on 55% TS with elite defense in a championship year. Lebron at 22 put up 27/7/6/2/1 on 55% TS and took a trash team to the finals.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Trillard

more reliable on offense and better on defense. Lillard is a bad defender but Kyries arguably the worst in the league

[Mass Debator]

Blazers would accept a Kyrie for Lillard trade right now, and Lillard would get almost 30 wins with last year's Cavs squad. That's not saying who's better, but it's saying Kyrie has a shitload of potential who is more skilled than any point not named CP3 and maybe Steph Curry. Right now, Lillard plays a bit more disciplined and Kyrie relies a lot on instincts and natural talent.

Kyrie will be a superstar when his mental make up matures. I don't think it's a matter of "if" too it's a "when" kind of deal.

[Rocketswin2013]

Irving. Better ball handler, scorer, better passer/playmaker, equal rebounding, both are terrible defensively so what's the point.

Irving is much younger too.

[Cocaine80s]

seems like lebron stans are severely underrating Kyrie :lol

same goes for the haters who overrate the **** out of him


I would take Lavine over both at this point in their careers

[Pra]

Lillard

[COnDEMnED]

Kyrie will become the face of the league one of these years. He'll be regarded in the same breath as Kobe and LeBron. A superduperstar.

Lilliard will be just like any other generic All Star. "Only" a superstar but not a superduperstar like Kyrie.
Really dude....come on.

[Denitron]

Lillard

[RedBlackAttack]

To me they're near identical as players. Who do you pick?
Identical? As in their games are similar? They're really not. At all.

[navy]

Identical? As in their games are similar? They're really not. At all.
Scoring point guards who dont play defense.

[rhowen4]

I agree with those saying lillard right now slightly but kyrie for the future.

Also, the ones who are voting for a "Trillard" should not have their votes counted.

[magnax1]

Generally-Kyrie
Just last year-lilliard
Kyrie had a shit year for whatever reason.

[RedBlackAttack]

Scoring point guards who dont play defense.
Oh, we're not actually doing a comparison then, but generic meaningless labeling? I didn't realize.

Carry on.

[navy]

Oh, we're not actually doing a comparison then, but generic meaningless labeling? I didn't realize.

Carry on.
Just because you are insecure about the generic meaningless labels that pretty accurately defines them doesnt mean you cant break down their games further....

[zoom17]

http://notsportscenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Damian-Lillard-Dwight-Howard-300x199.png

[RedBlackAttack]

Just because you are insecure about the generic meaningless labels that pretty accurately defines them doesnt mean you cant break down their games further....
Hmmm. Trolling are we? I won't bite.

But, when you're ready to do an actual comparison, please let me know. I'd be happy to contribute.

[navy]

Hmmm. Trolling are we? I won't bite.

But, when you're ready to do an actual comparison, please let me know. I'd be happy to contribute.
I wasnt trolling I was being serious.

This is the thread, please do. As others have before you.

[noob cake]

Shall I compile a list of morons?

[ButterFace]

Shall I compile a list of morons?

Somebody living in the moment.

[Inferno]

Shall I compile a list of morons?

Can I say the same thing after Lillard hits another game winner?

[KyrieTheFuture]

There isn't an argument for Lillard and there never has been.

[WallIn]

Kyrie is a clearly a better SG than Lillard. Better handles, better shot.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Lillard doesn't do anything better than Kyrie.

[El Gato Negro]

Can I say the same thing after Lillard hits another game winner?
He needs to hit alot more than one to catch kyrie in that category.

[Jailblazers7]

Kyrie definitely has another gear but despite that their stats are pretty damn similar. Kyrie is shoots a much better percentage but I think part of that is due to play style, while part is due to better natural shooting talent. The question with Kyrie is always how much better will he get, but Lillard has also proven that he gets better every year. Lillard's advanced metrics on D this season kill Kyrie's tho.

Everyone is going to say Kyrie is better today but if you asked this question yesterday it would be far from clear.