if Lebron had this roster back in 2009 and 2010, they'd be the champs 100%

[GovernmentMan]

but now it's not 100%

has the league gotten better and tougher?

[AnaheimLakers24]

id be the best nba player of all time IF I tried

[KobesFinger]

In 2009 and 10 Irving and Waiters were still in school/college

[SouBeachTalents]

This isn't true at all. The Lakers & Celtics could easily beat them, and the Magic and a handful of teams out west could challenge/beat them as well

[TheMarkMadsen]

Lebron has spent the past 4 years of his prime with 2 all stars beside him. Is about to spend the last 4 years of his prime with 2 all stars by his side. Must be nice.

[PJR]

Nothing is guaranteed. He can always have epic stinkers like these in pivotal games:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d-Mnfz6iB0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFe8KUEQdn4

[TheMarkMadsen]

This isn't true at all. The Lakers & Celtics could easily beat them, and the Magic and a handful of teams out west could challenge/beat them as well

So the MVP with 2 all stars beside him wouldn't be enough to make the cavs favorites?

[SouBeachTalents]

So the MVP with 2 all stars beside him wouldn't be enough to make the cavs favorites?

Would they really be that big of a favorite over the 09-10 Celtics & Lakers, who if KG didn't get injured in '09 would have most likely met in the Finals 3 seasons in a row?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

He wouldn't have to carry this projected team, so yeah, maybe a couple titles.

Bron has taken Miami to the finals w/ Wade and Bosh playing mediocre basketball.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Bron has taken Miami to the finals w/ Wade and Bosh playing mediocre basketball.
Is this the revisionist history now? 2011 - 2013 post season they were not playing average basketball.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Would they really be that big of a favorite over the 09-10 Celtics & Lakers, who if KG didn't get injured in '09 would have most likely met in the Finals 3 seasons in a row?

They won the most games in the league in 09 & 10 as they were & were top 3 favorites to make the finals from 08-10, and total favorites to make the finals in 2010, there were already magazine covers with Lebron & Kobe talking about te likely finals match up.

Add 2 all stars who are both top 3 players at their position.. Well if Lebron really does have the impact his fans claim then that team should easily be favorites.

[ArbitraryWater]

Like I said, I agree with this 100%... Every playoff team in the West has 2-3 stars right now.. Look at the Clippers, they're way better than the 2009 Magic who were fed to Kobe in '09, nowadays they're just one of the good teams in the West...

Dirk himself said he doesn't believe his 2006+2007 squads could make it as far as they did today. (Grantland Dinner with Nash)

Superstars win. From 2008-2010 Kobe was the only Top 5 Player with a capable team... LeBron/Wade/Dirk the next guys, were all left with mediocre-bad rosters, so it was Kobe's for the taking.

His toughest opponent in 2008 (West) would be the Chris Paul Hornets, in 2009 the Carmelo Anthony Magic...

[ArbitraryWater]

Is this the revisionist history now? 2011 - 2013 post season they were not playing average basketball.

Um, not in 2011, but Bosh wasn't even available for the main part in 2012 and in 2013 they were bad pretty bad... Wade at 16 ppg? Bosh at 12 ppg?

Those are bad 2nd and 3rd options on title teams... No doubt. Big names yeah, but production wise? No.

[SouBeachTalents]

Um, not in 2011, but Bosh wasn't even available for the main part in 2012 and in 2013 they were bad pretty bad... Wade at 16 ppg? Bosh at 12 ppg?

Those are bad 2nd and 3rd options on title teams... No doubt. Big names yeah, but production wise? No.

This man is correct :cheers:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Is this the revisionist history now? 2011 - 2013 post season they were not playing average basketball.

Dude, did you hit your head or something?

Wade averaged 14 points on 44% heading into the finals in 2013, while Bosh averaged 12 points on 45% shooting. For players of their caliber, those numbers are the very definition of mediocrity.

[navy]

Is this the revisionist history now? 2011 - 2013 post season they were not playing average basketball.
2011 and 2012.

2013 and 2014 were definitely average or at times worse.

[SamuraiSWISH]

2011 and 2012.

2013 and 2014 were definitely average or at times worse.
This I can agree with ...

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

This I can agree with ...

So what made you "disagree" with my post? He is essentially saying the same thing Arbitrary and I were. :confusedshrug:

[SamuraiSWISH]

Dude, did you hit your head or something?
Did you?


Wade averaged 14 points on 44% heading into the finals in 2013
The lack of production in the 2013 playoffs is negated by the fact they faced no compeition at all on the way to the Finals.

Did you forget that he turned it on when it mattered in the Finals? Where he put up 20 / 4 / 5 and dudes want to act like he's been garbage? Really? He won game 4 by himself.

As I said, up until the 2013 playoffs they were not playing mediocre basketball. They won 66 games in 2013 when Wade, and Bosh were healthy playing well.

LeBron stans, and your post made it seem as if Wade / Bosh were useless during Bron's entire tenure in Miami.

[ArbitraryWater]

Did you?


The lack of production in the 2013 playoffs is negated by the fact they faced no compeition at all on the way to the Finals.

Did you forget that he turned it on when it mattered in the Finals? Where he put up 20 / 4 / 5 and dudes want to act like he's been garbage? Really? He won game 4 by himself.

As I said, up until the 2013 playoffs they were not playing mediocre basketball. They won 66 games in 2013 when Wade, and Bosh were healthy playing well.

LeBron stans, and your post made it seem as if Wade / Bosh were useless during Bron's entire tenure in Miami.

First of, competition doesn't change anyone's play :facepalm

Indiana WAS legit competition...

Damn, 20/4/5? BEAST!

Except not... How low have the standarts fallen for Wade?

Kobe put that up in 2000 and everyone talks about it as the ultra sidekick ring, for Wade you prop this up?

And no, he did not win Game 4 "by himself"... LeBron had 33/11/4 on 60% himself...

They weren't useless, they were mediocre. End of.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

they faced no compeition at all on the way to the Finals.

Indiana actually took Miami to 7 games w/ LeBron having a GREAT series. Wade and Bosh? Hysterically awful.

Wade averaged 15 on 43% in that series.


Did you forget that he turned it on when it mattered in the Finals? Where he put up 20 / 4 / 5 and dudes want to act like he's been garbage? Really? He won game 4 by himself.

No, but whats this gotta do with LeBron taking Miami to the finals?


LeBron stans, and your post made it seem as if Wade / Bosh were useless during Bron's entire tenure in Miami.

My post had no such tone. How you came up with that, I haven't the slightest idea. :oldlol:



The lack of production in the 2013 playoffs is negated by the fact they faced no compeition

Once again, the east competition was weak, but that in NO WAY nullifies Wade and Bosh's average play.

No offense, but you would have to be a complete TOOL to argue otherwise.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

First of, competition doesn't change anyone's play :facepalm

Indiana WAS legit competition...

Damn, 20/4/5? BEAST!

Except not... How low have the standarts fallen for Wade?

Kobe put that up in 2000 and everyone talks about it as the ultra sidekick ring, for Wade you prop this up?

And no, he did not win Game 4 "by himself"... LeBron had 33/11/4 on 60% himself...

They weren't useless, they were mediocre. End of.

:applause:

Wow, somebody on ISH that hasn't lost their DAMN mind :oldlol:

[Magic 32]

And no, he did not win Game 4 "by himself"... LeBron had 33/11/4 on 60% himself...


"LeBron just scored 9 in last 4 minutes of a blowout (including a 3 w/ 22 secs left) vs Nando de Colo and Matt Bonner. Now that's greatness. "

- Skip Bayless

[dubeta]

If LeBron just had one other borderline all star in Cleveland he wouldve won 2-3 rings in his first 7 years

And if he still went to Miami and won 2 then...

HE WOULD HAVE HAD 4 RINGS AND 4 FMVP's BY THE AGE OF 28!!

this shows you how important team management and rosters are to proping up GOAT candidates

LeBron was one sidekick away from being the fcuking GOAT at 29!

[ArbitraryWater]

:applause:

Wow, somebody on ISH that hasn't lost their DAMN mind :oldlol:

https://media.lastnightoffreedom.co.uk/images/articles/LeonardoDicaprio_Champagne.jpg

[JT123]

First of, competition doesn't change anyone's play :facepalm

Indiana WAS legit competition...

Damn, 20/4/5? BEAST!

Except not... How low have the standarts fallen for Wade?

Kobe put that up in 2000 and everyone talks about it as the ultra sidekick ring, for Wade you prop this up?

And no, he did not win Game 4 "by himself"... LeBron had 33/11/4 on 60% himself...

They weren't useless, they were mediocre. End of.
:applause: In regards to Wade I will give him most of the credit for the game 4 win, as he is the one who put the game out of reach in the first half of that 4th quarter, but only a complete imbecile would say that Wade won it "by himself" :rolleyes:

[SouBeachTalents]

First of, competition doesn't change anyone's play :facepalm

Indiana WAS legit competition...

Damn, 20/4/5? BEAST!

Except not... How low have the standarts fallen for Wade?

Kobe put that up in 2000 and everyone talks about it as the ultra sidekick ring, for Wade you prop this up?

And no, he did not win Game 4 "by himself"... LeBron had 33/11/4 on 60% himself...

They weren't useless, they were mediocre. End of.

:applause: :cheers:

[ArbitraryWater]

"LeBron just scored 9 in last 4 minutes of a blowout (including a 3 w/ 22 secs left) vs Nando de Colo and Matt Bonner. Now that's greatness. "

- Skip Bayless

It were 7... and the point still stands... Someone else chipping in with 26/11/4 on 12-22 55% doesn't equate to "winning by yourself"

[JT123]

"LeBron just scored 9 in last 4 minutes of a blowout (including a 3 w/ 22 secs left) vs Nando de Colo and Matt Bonner. Now that's greatness. "

- Skip Bayless
:lol A tweet by some bitter Spurs fanboy is what your trying to use as proof that Lebron didn't do anything? :facepalm
Lebron still had 24 points prior to those final 4 minutes, so what are you trying to argue? :biggums:

[mehyaM24]

First of, competition doesn't change anyone's play :facepalm

Indiana WAS legit competition...

Damn, 20/4/5? BEAST!

Except not... How low have the standarts fallen for Wade?

Kobe put that up in 2000 and everyone talks about it as the ultra sidekick ring, for Wade you prop this up?

And no, he did not win Game 4 "by himself"... LeBron had 33/11/4 on 60% himself...

They weren't useless, they were mediocre. End of.


Indiana actually took Miami to 7 games w/ LeBron having a GREAT series. Wade and Bosh? Hysterically awful.

Wade averaged 15 on 43% in that series.



No, but whats this gotta do with LeBron taking Miami to the finals?



My post had no such tone. How you came up with that, I haven't the slightest idea. :oldlol:



Once again, the east competition was weak, but that in NO WAY nullifies Wade and Bosh's average play.

No offense, but you would have to be a complete TOOL to argue otherwise.

:applause:

posters that their know hoops. good stuff.

i would say bron wins 2-3 rings. dude did some heavy lifting in cleveland, pre miami.

[SamuraiSWISH]

"LeBron just scored 9 in last 4 minutes of a blowout (including a 3 w/ 22 secs left) vs Nando de Colo and Matt Bonner. Now that's greatness. "

- Skip Bayless
Didn't have time to mention it, thanks.

[mehyaM24]

2011 and 2012.

2013 and 2014 were definitely average or at times worse.

:cheers:

so does 2-3 seem to be the consensus?