2014 Edition of ISH's All-Time List: #15

[DaSeba5]

http://d1warraxuf7xh1.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/jerry-west.jpg

The winner of the thread #14 was Jerry West.

Current ISH All-Time List:
1. Michael Jordan (#23) - SG.
6x NBA Champion, 6x Finals MVPs, 5x MVPs, 14x All-Star, 10x Scoring Champ, DPOY (1988), ROTY (1985), highest scoring game in playoffs
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (#33) - C.
6x NBA Champion, 2x NBA Finals MVPs, 6x MVPs, 19x All-Star, 2x Scoring Champ, ROTY (1970)
3. Bill Russell (#6) - C.
11x NBA Champion, 5x NBA MVP, 12x All-Star
4. Wilt Chamberlain (#13)- C.
2x NBA Champion, NBA Finals MVP, 4x NBA MVP, 13x All-Star, 7x Scoring Champ, ROTY (1960), 100 point game
5. Tim Duncan (#21) - PF/C.
5x NBA Champion, 3x NBA Finals MVP, 2x NBA MVP, 14x All-Star, ROTY (1998)
6. Larry Bird (#33) - SF/PF.
3x NBA Champion, 2x NBA Finals MVP, 3x NBA MVP, 12x All-Star, ROTY (1980), Coach of the Year (1998)
7. Magic Johnson (#32) - PG.
5x NBA Champion, 3x NBA Finals MVP, 3x NBA MVP, 12x All-Star
8. Shaquille O'Neal (#32,34,33,36) - C.
4x NBA Champion, 3x Finals MVP, NBA MVP, 15x All-Star, NBA Scoring Champ (95, 00), ROTY (1993)
9. Kobe Bryant (#24)- SG.
5x NBA Champion, 2x Finals MVP, NBA MVP, 16x NBA All-Star, 2x NBA Scoring Champ (06-07)
10. LeBron James (#23, #6)- SF.
2x NBA Champion, 2x Finals MVP, 4x NBA MVP, 10x NBA All-Star, NBA Scoring Champ (08), ROTY (04)
11. Hakeem Olajuwon (#34)- C.
2x NBA Champion, 2x Finals MVP, NBA MVP, 12x NBA All-Star, 2x DPOY (93-94)
12. Oscar Robertson (#14, #1)- PG/SG.
NBA Champion, NBA MVP, 12x NBA All-Star, ROTY (1961), Only player to average a triple double for season.
13. Moses Malone (#22, #13, #20, #21, #24, #2, #4, #8)- PF/C.
NBA Champion, NBA Finals MVP, 3x NBA MVP, 2x ABA All-Star, 12x NBA All-Star
14. Jerry West (#44)- G.
NBA Champion, NBA Finals MVP, 14x NBA All-Star, NBA Scoring Champ (1970), 4x NBA Champ as Exec., 2x Exec. of the Year, The NBA Logo


VOTE COUNT:
Dr.J-13
Dirk-5
KG-2
Robinson- 1

[navy]

Dr. J

[r0drig0lac]

Dr. J
this

[Im so nba'd out]

Michael Carter Williams

[Milbuck]

http://i.imgur.com/YSeh2xR.gif

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1091354/dirktongue.gif

Again, Dirk.

[rule1223]

http://i.imgur.com/YSeh2xR.gif

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1091354/dirktongue.gif

Again, Dirk.
+1

[MP.Trey]

http://www.fifteenminuteswith.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/juliuserving3.jpg

[Kblaze8855]

Doctor J, Elgin Baylor, or Bob Petitt feel right in here but I suspect two of them fall into the 20s.

[ArbitraryWater]

Dirk

[DaSeba5]

http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/giFS.gif

[robert_shaww]

dr j

[K Xerxes]

Doctor J, Elgin Baylor, or Bob Petitt feel right in here but I suspect two of them fall into the 20s.

Interesting you put Pettit in the same tier as Dr J and Elgin... you're right that he'll probably fall into the 20s.

Erving will win this round, Baylor has a shot of cracking the top 20 I think.

[MP.Trey]

Doctor J, Elgin Baylor, or Bob Petitt feel right in here but I suspect two of them fall into the 20s.
Baylor will be my next vote after Julius gets in, I'm thinking.

Curious though kblaze, what is your stance on Mikan when it comes to these lists?

[DaSeba5]

I appreciate the discussions. I'm glad we got past all the agendas and stans. It's gone smoothly since we got past LeBron/Hakeem.

[ArbitraryWater]

I appreciate the discussions. I'm glad we got past all the agendas and stans. It's gone smoothly since we got past LeBron/Hakeem.

Agreed.. These threads will have less quantity but way more quality...

[HomieWeMajor]

Dr J

[MrC1991]

Doctor J

[Kblaze8855]

Interesting you put Pettit in the same tier as Dr J and Elgin... you're right that he'll probably fall into the 20s.

Erving will win this round, Baylor has a shot of cracking the top 20 I think.


Seems every single person who watched him play a game puts Bob right there. 10 straight all NBA first teams, 2 MVPS, a title by dropping 50 in the elimination game in one of the 5 finals he took his team to, and hes putting up 31/19 right next to Russell and Wilt and nobody gives a shit.

Hes at least worth mentioning.

[ArbitraryWater]

Seems every single person who watched him play a game puts Bob right there. 10 straight all NBA first teams, 2 MVPS, a title by dropping 50 in the elimination game in one of the 5 finals he took his team to, and hes putting up 31/19 right next to Russell and Wilt and nobody gives a shit.

Hes at least worth mentioning.

No disrespect but I also heard he didn't play a lick of defense.. But I too have him top 20

[Kblaze8855]

As for Mikan...

He presents a real problem.

Either 5 rings and what would be 3 MVPs count or they dont.

Ranking him behind a lot of these guys is pretty much just saying "Yea but...it was 1951 and he wasnt a modern bigman" and once you dismiss the man totally due to nothing but his era....how do you then pull a later ranking out of your ass?

What...just plug him in at 26 with 5 rings? 34?

You all know as well as I do that he didnt play basketball better than Dirk, or Robert Parish, or Barkley or whoever.

But once you rank him behind them....how do you justify including him ever?

How do you put him behind Dirk but ahead of...Chris Webber?

The only reason to do it is going bottom line basketball playing...and throwing out what he did because of things out of his control.

You cant...pick who his accomplishments apply against.

If they count against Webber or Tim Hardaway..they count against charles barkley.

Which is why its damn near impossible to not have him top 10 or...just out.

Anything else is just kinda plugging him in once you feel the disrespect has gone a little too far.

But the reasons to not have him top 10 are just as valid for not having him top 100.

It just feels more disrespectful along the way so eventually we would stop.

But it wont be logically justifiable.

You almost need another category for players who didnt even reach the 60s.


Dick Mcguire had a better career than Russell Westbrook.

He wont rank ahead of him in this list.

It just is what it is.

[Sakkreth]

Julius Erving...

[Im so nba'd out]

Michael Carter Williams

[creepingdeath]

Dirk

[Kblaze8855]

No disrespect but I also heard he didn't play a lick of defense.. But I too have him top 20


Ive heard Dirk didnt play a lick of defense and people will be hearing it for the rest of time.

Make it true?

I dont really know if he could defend. Ive read Wilt say he was tough on defense. Bit of a bruiser. But ive heard other say he didnt care for it.

Ive also read Bill Simmons say he couldnt dunk even though ive seen him steal it and go coast to coast for the dunk in one of his last seasons.

Lot of misinformation out there on some of these guys.

[Kblaze8855]

I ran something like this years ago and noticed something I notice now....

Cant really get awya from it....but player fans will just vote for a guy over and over...you know why.....I didnt even want to count them at the time. I did...but it fels unfair.

If you could eliminate known fans of a guy from voting for them I think a better representation of what people actually think would result....but you would piss people off.

I remember Laker fans would pop up and vote once Magics name came up....then Kobes...then West....later Worthy.

Does it show you what people think or what 4-5 dedicated people who are gonna vote for their side no matter what can influence when so few votes get cast?

Not that perfection is the goal. You would never eliminate that element.

[ArbitraryWater]

Ive heard Dirk didnt play a lick of defense and people will be hearing it for the rest of time.

Make it true?

I dont really know if he could defend. Ive read Wilt say he was tough on defense. Bit of a bruiser. But ive heard other say he didnt care for it.

Ive also read Bill Simmons say he couldnt dunk even though ive seen him steal it and go coast to coast for the dunk in one of his last seasons.

Lot of misinformation out there on some of these guys.

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/136/d/c/oh_no_you_didnt_by_sonsofelrond-d65hyjq.jpg

[Kblaze8855]

Truth is truth.

You dont shake labels that ingrained into your reputation.

People still saying Wilt only cared about numbers for 40 years even though he started shooting 12 times a game and passing and rebounding and playing defense blocking shots that were not even recorded. A guy who had 2 60+ point games in a week or so while he was on the Lakers...so we know he could still score...just passes the ball for years. Runs the floor. Outlets. Sets picks.

Has great success.

But hes forever selfish and unwilling to do whats best for the team at his own expense.

You cant shake some labels longterm.

Dirk will never shake ___irk like Jason Kidd wont ever shake ___ason.

Even if he did hit 2,000 threes.

That shit is for life.

[Rolando]

Dr. J.

[StephHamann]

http://i.imgur.com/YSeh2xR.gif

[ArbitraryWater]

One thing that stands out to me, the more you read about Wilt the more apparent it gets that he flicked away some titles... The "selfish" thing is stupid, for the main part of his career he did what the coach wanted / was right for the team.. Now he chucked early on, but he was in a situation to do so.. Could/Would others have done it? Could Kareem or Shaq replicate it? Probably.. But Wilt is more so defined by the glorious 1967 run... In which he put it ALL together and found the right balance.

Anyway back to Pettit, can you imagine how awesome it would be to have more footage of the 1957 Finals? Bob missed out on 2 titles by a hair in that epic 7-game series...

[Roundball_Rock]

Julius Erving.

[WillC]

Julius Erving

[qrich]

http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Kevin-Garnett-Face.jpg

[Y2ktors]

Dr J

[inclinerator]

thomas robinson

[Fiddlesticks]

Paul Pierce

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Kevin Garnett

[DMV2]

Dirk and KG are better than Barkley and Malone? :biggums:

[DaSeba5]

Looks like Dr. J is going to win this.

[Fudge]

Julius Erving

[kshutts1]

KG.

A lot of those older guys are really difficult for me to rank. I basically rank Mikan, Baylor, Pettit, Lucas, Greer, Guerin, Arizin and their like about as low as possible without offending myself. I try to notate it, though, by saying that I just don't have enough info, and I'm too lazy to look it up, but they deserve to be here AT WORST.

Pettit and Mikan, in particular, likely have legit top 10 arguments.

[Dragic4Life]

Dirk and KG are better than Barkley and Malone? :biggums:
Ring > Ringless

[PickernRoller]

Magic at #7 and LeCramp at #10. The Bean at #9.....

ISH rivaling realGM....:lol :lol

[Yankstar]

Dirk

[jcsrplumply]

Rick Barry

[pauk]

Julius Erving.

[Shade8780]

http://www.fifteenminuteswith.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/juliuserving4.jpg

I was trying to decide between Erving and Baylor, but Erving's 2 ABA rings, 3 NBA Finals Appearances, and 1 NBA ring beats out Baylor.

[Vienceslav]

Magic Johnson again, we should at least have him twice on there if you guys are gonna put him at #7.