Who is better? 07 Gasol or 14 Love

[Yao Ming's Foot]

http://i.imgur.com/OVoUgQY.png

[VengefulAngel]

Agenda is clear...

[Lebronxrings]

Gasol easily.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Just look at the win shares, it's not even an argument :confusedshrug:

[GrapeApe]

Actually pretty comparable all things considered. The 3 point attempt differential was kinda funny seeing them right next to each other like that. Safe to say they have different offensive games :lol

[KOBE143]

Love and its not even close.. Love is the best pf in the league right now while Gasol in 07 was a borderline top 10 pf..

[AintNoSunshine]

Thank you for reconfirming Kobetards don't know shiit about basketball. Gasol was by far the better defender and one who you can actually run an offense through, and better post scorer too.

[T_L_P]

14 Love. Though I don't think Cleveland Love will be better than 09/10 Gasol, for whatever reason.

[NBASTATMAN]

Has Love ever made the playoffs? Dude is a horrible defender.. Gasol was always a good defender... Huge difference...




http://lakeshowlife.com/2014/08/07/kevin-love-gets-paid-kobe-bryant-money/?utm_source=FanSided&utm_medium=Network&utm_campaign=Around%20the%20Network

[Dragic4Life]

Who won 09/10 FMVP?

[Magic 32]

Kobe needs a big two, Lebron needs a big three.

[Dragic4Life]

Kobe needs a big two, Lebron needs a big three.
http://www.lakersuniverse.com/pictures/2003_2004_fab_four.jpeg
http://www.nbacircle.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/LA-Lakers-2012-2013-Roster.jpg

[Magic 32]

http://www.lakersuniverse.com/pictures/2003_2004_fab_four.jpeg
http://www.nbacircle.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/LA-Lakers-2012-2013-Roster.jpg

Those pictures only work if you have never seen a basketball game.

[NBASTATMAN]

Kobe needs a big two, Lebron needs a big three.


Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Kobe have Gasol, Bynum, Artest and Odom all at one point.. Gasol and Bynum both were all stars and Odom and Artest were very good players.. Odom won 6 th man of the year.. The most talented teams usually win titles.. Exceptions are 2011 when Lebron choked, 2004 when Kobe choked... :rockon:

[Magic 32]

Bynum

Artest

Odom



:roll: :roll: :roll:

[choppermagic]

Love may be a better franchise player at this point than Gasol was back in 07, but Gasol was a great fit for the triangle and was made a lot better after being challenged by Kobe.

Who knows how Love will respond being second banana...

[Jlamb47]

Gasol was better, his defense and more efficient
Love was number 1 option on those stats, Gasol was in a triangle offense and opton next to one of the GOAT scorers

[Dragic4Life]

Gasol was better, his defense and more efficient
Love was number 1 option on those stats, Gasol was in a triangle offense and opton next to one of the GOAT scorers
"GOAT scorers" don't shoot 6/24 in a Finals game 7.:roll:

[Jlamb47]

"GOAT scorers" don't shoot 6/24 in a Finals game 7.:roll:

Atleast he aint LOSE more in the finals then win bitch
2/5
Your just a hater who downplays anyone to help Lebron
Lebron CHOKED in 2011 couldnt even average 20ppg on the Mavs lol

[Magic 32]

"GOAT scorers" don't shoot 6/24 in a Finals game 7.:roll:

No, he shot 6-16.

[Hoopz2332]

Gasol. Infact, gasol lead a team to 50 wins as the leader even before Kobe did it in the post-Shaq/pre-Gasol years. Love has never even sniffed 50 wins.

[ArbitraryWater]

Oh its Love..

But again, teams are built differently now then from 2008-2010, where the only "Superteam" were the Lakers and Celtics.

Every playoff team in the West has 2-3 stars right now.. Look at the Clippers, they're way better than the 2009 Magic who were fed to Kobe in '09, nowadays they're just one of the good teams in the West...

Dirk himself said he doesn't believe his 2006+2007 squads could make it as far as they did today. (Grantland Dinner with Nash)

Superstars win. From 2008-2010 Kobe was the only Top 5 Player with a capable team... LeBron/Wade/Dirk the next guys, were all left with mediocre-bad rosters, so it was Kobe's for the taking.

His toughest opponent in 2008 (West) would be the Chris Paul Hornets, in 2009 the Carmelo Anthony Magic...

[deja vu]

Hard to pick. Although Gasol had that "softie" tag he was a beast when it matters. Love had great stats but impact wise Gasol was better. Game 7 he beasted when Kobe went missing. Destroyed Team USA in the Olympics too.

[atljonesbro]

Love is easily better. Funny seeing the people who think they're edgy picking gasol

[rule1223]

lmao kobe made gasol look so good people are forgetting that he was a second tier pf before the lakers, lets remember that gasol wasnt even an all star in 07 while love was not only an allstar but a starting for the western conference and was 2nd team all nba, this isnt even a comparison. A better comparison would be 08 gasol and next years kevin love after the lebron effect

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Hard to pick. Although Gasol had that "softie" tag he was a beast when it matters. Love had great stats but impact wise Gasol was better. Game 7 he beasted when Kobe went missing. Destroyed Team USA in the Olympics too.

Game 7 was in 2010 and the Olympics in 2012. :facepalm

[DMAVS41]

Really close...I'd probably take Gasol because of his length and defense.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Really close...I'd probably take Gasol because of his length and defense.

What defensive metrics are you basing that decision on?

[DMAVS41]

What defensive metrics are you basing that decision on?

Gasol's ability to play PF and Center in a way that Love can't.

Love has some of the worst metrics in terms of protecting the rim....I like that versatility that Gasol provides as a true 7 footer with long arms.

From Grantland;

Poor defensive teams usually miss the playoffs, right? Well, SportVU measures the opposing field goal percentage of every rim protector (from 1 to 5 feet). Of anyone averaging 30-plus minutes per game at power forward or center last season, the NBA’s five worst interior defenders were Thaddeus Young (60.2% FG), Tristan Thompson (59.1%), Kevin Love (57.4%), Nikola Vucevic (56.4%) and Nikola Pekovic (55.2%). By that same criterion, the NBA’s worst shot-blockers were Zach Randolph at 0.3 blocks per game, David Lee, Thompson and Pekovic at 0.4 blocks, then Love, Young and Glen Davis at 0.5 blocks. Yes, Love and Pekovic were Minnesota’s two highest-paid players last season.

This honestly shouldn't matter much if the Cavs are able to get some other real centers, but this is why I was so skeptical of giving up so much for Love without getting Dieng back. I was talking to RBA about Thompson and he insists TT is a good defender, and maybe he is, but when I've seen him he's looked awful...and the stats above showing him as one of the worst defensive players in terms of protecting the rim in the league confirm that.

If Andy gets hurt, that interior defense of the Cavs could be horrendous. They really need to add at least one other guy.

And going forward, it's going to be tough if they bring back Thompson and give him an extension. You are going to be paying like 30 plus million a year for two bigs that are in the bottom 5 of paint protection.

I don't like that at all....and that is what I worry about from the Cavs point of view. Giving up Bennett and not getting back Dieng was a huge mistake that could cost them. Shouldn't have done that. Just shouldn't have given up Bennett to begin with...could have definitely paired him and a couple first rounders and gotten something really nice from a team.

[Milbuck]

Love right now, and for the future..Love is getting drastically underrated. The dude is still only 25 putting up 26/13/4/1/1 on 59% TS...with reasonably 3-4 more years to improve.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Gasol's ability to play PF and Center in a way that Love can't.

Love has some of the worst metrics in terms of protecting the rim....I like that versatility that Gasol provides as a true 7 footer with long arms.

From Grantland;

[B][I]Poor defensive teams usually miss the playoffs, right? Well, SportVU measures the opposing field goal percentage of every rim protector (from 1 to 5 feet). Of anyone averaging 30-plus minutes per game at power forward or center last season, the NBA

[DMAVS41]

I'm not seeing Gasol's 07 metrics anywhere in what you posted. :confusedshrug:

Could you state your opinion.

Is Love a more versatile defender and better rim protector than Pau Gasol?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Could you state your opinion.

Is Love a more versatile defender and better rim protector than Pau Gasol?

I'm not aware of any data to support the statement that 07 Pau Gasol was a better defender than 14 Love,

Defensive win shares? No :confusedshrug:
Defensive rating? No :confusedshrug:
DRAPM? No :confusedshrug:

[DMAVS41]

I'm not aware of any data to support the statement that 07 Pau Gasol was a better defender than 14 Love,

Defensive win shares? No :confusedshrug:
Defensive rating? No :confusedshrug:
DRAPM? No :confusedshrug:

I just gave you data on why I'd take Gasol. I think it's nice to have a guy that can play both positions and isn't one of the 5 worst defensive bigs in the league in terms of rim protection.

I'll ask again. Do you think Love is a better defender than Gasol?

Like I said above...the rim protection might not matter a lot if the Cavs get a real center, but as of now? Old Andy, Haywood, and Thompson? Ugh...that rim protection is going to be bad.

The reason I'd take Gasol though...is because he's versatile enough to play both if need be. You play Gasol at PF or C as the 2nd best player on your team and because of that versatility...you can win.

You play current Love at C as the 2nd best player on your team? Ugh...I really don't think you can win.

:confusedshrug:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Oh its Love..

But again, teams are built differently now then from 2008-2010, where the only "Superteam" were the Lakers and Celtics.

Every playoff team in the West has 2-3 stars right now.. Look at the Clippers, they're way better than the 2009 Magic who were fed to Kobe in '09, nowadays they're just one of the good teams in the West...

Dirk himself said he doesn't believe his 2006+2007 squads could make it as far as they did today. (Grantland Dinner with Nash)

Superstars win. From 2008-2010 Kobe was the only Top 5 Player with a capable team... LeBron/Wade/Dirk the next guys, were all left with mediocre-bad rosters, so it was Kobe's for the taking.

His toughest opponent in 2008 (West) would be the Chris Paul Hornets, in 2009 the Carmelo Anthony Magic...

What am I supposed to be responding to exactly? The idea that for Kobe Bryant his championship teams are stacked because he played with one other all star while for everyone before and after him they need 3 stars to compete? Do you really believe that?

[DMAVS41]

Also, are we not factoring in that Gasol was hurt in 07? Because obviously an injured Gasol is worse than a healthy Love.

[MiseryCityTexas]

07 Gasol was better.

[ArbitraryWater]

OP on his usual tunnel vision again... blocking all sorts of logic out.

Yes

Teams are built differently now then from 2008-2010, where the only "Superteam" were the Lakers and Celtics.

Every playoff team in the West has 2-3 stars right now.. Look at the Clippers, they're way better than the 2009 Magic who were fed to Kobe in '09, nowadays they're just one of the good teams in the West...

Dirk himself in his Grantland Interview / Dinner with Nash said he doesn't believe his 2006 and 2007 Teams could make it as far as they did today.

Superstars win. From 2008-2010 Kobe was the only Top 5 Player with a capable team... LeBron/Wade/Dirk, Paul the next guys, were all left with mediocre-bad rosters, Howard's had solid shooters. So it was Kobe's for the taking.

His toughest opponent in 2008 (West) would be the Chris Paul Hornets, in 2009 the Carmelo Anthony Magic.

What can you refute? Absolutely nothing.

[DMAVS41]

What am I supposed to be responding to exactly? The idea that for Kobe Bryant his championship teams are stacked because he played with one other all star while for everyone before and after him they need 3 stars to compete? Do you really believe that?

3 stars?

After 03...Dirk never had 3 stars.

In fact, he had 0 all nba teammates and 0 all star teammates in 2011.

So hardly everyone else needed what you say.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Gasol was an absolute beast in his grizzlies/ early Lakers years.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I just gave you data on why I'd take Gasol. I think it's nice to have a guy that can play both positions and isn't one of the 5 worst defensive bigs in the league in terms of rim protection.:

The fact that Love sucks on defense doesn't tell you anything about Gasol's 07 defense. They are completely independent events.

By all the most standard defensive metrics parroted by you often on these boards Gasol is worse than Love on defense and that accounts for the fact that Love sucks. :confusedshrug:

[SpanishACB]

Gasol. Infact, gasol lead a team to 50 wins as the leader even before Kobe did it in the post-Shaq/pre-Gasol years. Love has never even sniffed 50 wins.

/thread

put that Gasol in Minnesota and they make the playoffs every year, no question. They might even win 1st round some year (with martin and brew)

[Yao Ming's Foot]

3 stars?

After 03...Dirk never had 3 stars.

In fact, he had 0 all nba teammates and 0 all star teammates in 2011.

So hardly everyone else needed what you say.

I'm talking about multiple championship winning legends, not fluke runs.

[Nowitness]

gasol came in and became the Lakers' best player.

He had good help around him two years and in that time he won the same amount of rings as the alpha than Kobe and LeBron combined.

[DMAVS41]

The fact that Love sucks on defense doesn't tell you anything about Gasol's 07 defense. They are completely independent events.

By all the most standard defensive metrics parroted by you often on these boards Gasol is worse than Love on defense and that accounts for the fact that Love sucks. :confusedshrug:

For starters, Love does not suck on defense. He's a fine defensive player when he plays PF only.

So what you say isn't even accurate.

I know Gasol is a better rim protector than Love. I don't need stats to tell me that. It's just obvious to anyone that has watched Gasol play in his career.

You are also using an injury riddled season from Gasol in 07...on a mess of a team that doesn't even begin to compare to the talent the 14 Wolves had. It's a shit comparison.

I just assumed people meant the actual players...not what Gasol did in 07 playing injured and on a shit team.

Like I said above, obviously an injured Gasol is worse than Love.

You think Gasol just magically got worse in 07 and early 08 on defense on the Grizzlies than he was the previous years? And then magically got better after? Of course not...come on...you're smarter than this.

:confusedshrug:

[DMAVS41]

I'm talking about multiple championship winning legends, not fluke runs.

:roll:

The fluke is your boy getting traded to the Lakers and lucking into Phil and Shaq.

Dirk earned what he got.

Kobe was handed 3 championships on a silver platter to start his career...then again lucked into Gasol when the league was nowhere near as competitive as it has been from 11 to present.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Gasol. Length, size, and better rim protector.

[DMAVS41]

Gasol. Length, size, and better rim protector.

No...please provide evidence that Gasol protects the rim better. :lol

Just kidding...

[Yao Ming's Foot]

For starters, Love does not suck on defense. He's a fine defensive player when he plays PF only.

So what you say isn't even accurate.

I know Gasol is a better rim protector than Love. I don't need stats to tell me that. It's just obvious to anyone that has watched Gasol play in his career.

You are also using an injury riddled season from Gasol in 07...on a mess of a team that doesn't even begin to compare to the talent the 14 Wolves had. It's a shit comparison.

I just assumed people meant the actual players...not what Gasol did in 07 playing injured and on a shit team.

Like I said above, obviously an injured Gasol is worse than Love.

You think Gasol just magically got worse in 07 and early 08 on defense on the Grizzlies than he was the previous years? And then magically got better after? Of course not...come on...you're smarter than this.

:confusedshrug:

So your answer is 14 Love? You are very verbose. Do you realize that?

[DMAVS41]

So your answer is 14 Love? You are very verbose. Do you realize that?

I'd say 14 Love had a better season.

As players? I'd take Gasol for the reasons I stated.

It's really not difficult...but you make it that way with terrible questions and posts.

Think about how stupid your question is...it would be like asking;

05 Kobe or 00 or 10 Wade? It's a retarded question if we aren't talking about the actual players...

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I'd say 14 Love had a better season.

As players? I'd take Gasol for the reasons I stated.

It's really not difficult...but you make it that way with terrible questions and posts.

Not sure why its a terrible question to ask a poster to defend his claim about defense when they are directly unsupported by defensive statistics he parrots in other threads.

Why are Pau Gasol's defensive metrics worse considering his superior length, size and rim protecting skills?

[GODbe]

:lol Love. It's not even close.

[Hoopz2332]

OP on his usual tunnel vision again... blocking all sorts of logic out.

Yes

Teams are built differently now then from 2008-2010, where the only "Superteam" were the Lakers and Celtics.

Every playoff team in the West has 2-3 stars right now.. Look at the Clippers, they're way better than the 2009 Magic who were fed to Kobe in '09, nowadays they're just one of the good teams in the West...

Dirk himself in his Grantland Interview / Dinner with Nash said he doesn't believe his 2006 and 2007 Teams could make it as far as they did today.

Superstars win. From 2008-2010 Kobe was the only Top 5 Player with a capable team... LeBron/Wade/Dirk, Paul the next guys, were all left with mediocre-bad rosters, Howard's had solid shooters. So it was Kobe's for the taking.

His toughest opponent in 2008 (West) would be the Chris Paul Hornets, in 2009 the Carmelo Anthony Magic.

What can you refute? Absolutely nothing.


100% truth:bowdown: :applause:

[jstern]

The sad thing is that this thread was made by a Laker "fan" with the agenda of diminishing Pau Gasol.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

The sad thing is that this thread was made by a Laker "fan" with the agenda of diminishing Pau Gasol.

I'm a UCLA fan too. :confusedshrug:

You must think Love is better though with that defensiveness.

[DMAVS41]

Not sure why its a terrible question to ask a poster to defend his claim about defense when they are directly unsupported by defensive statistics he parrots in other threads.

Why are Pau Gasol's defensive metrics worse considering his superior length, size and rim protecting skills?

i supported my claim. what are you talking about?

I already told you if it's just about an injury riddled terrible season in 07...give me Love. It's not even a question that Love had a better year in 14.

However, I figured it was an interesting question about the actual players. Which is definitely debatable.

Like, for example, Gasol's drapm in 06 was 2.3. In 14...Love's was 1.0.

I don't think Gasol just forgot how to play defense in 07 and early 08. I think his team was horrendous and he was not healthy for a lot of that time in 07.

The point is that if Love actually played center for long stretches like Gasol did...his defensive ratings would plummet. Hence why I would take Gasol...I like his versatility on defense because it adds a dimension to teams that Love doesn't. Because Pau is also such a gifted offensive player and a great post player and passer...I'd take that skillets slightly over what Love brings.

I'm sorry you can't follow simple logic.

[GODbe]

Real question is who's better Shaq or Love.

Shaq has the edge in :rolleyes: FG%:rolleyes: and blocks. But at least Love can shoot the ball and make his freethrows. Love is slightly better imo.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

i supported my claim. what are you talking about?

I already told you if it's just about an injury riddled terrible season in 07...give me Love. It's not even a question that Love had a better year in 14.

However, I figured it was an interesting question about the actual players. Which is definitely debatable.

Like, for example, Gasol's drapm in 06 was 2.3. In 14...Love's was 1.0.

I don't think Gasol just forgot how to play defense in 07 and early 08. I think his team was horrendous and he was not healthy for a lot of that time in 07.

The point is that if Love actually played center for long stretches like Gasol did...his defensive ratings would plummet. Hence why I would take Gasol...I like his versatility on defense because it adds a dimension to teams that Love doesn't. Because Pau is also such a gifted offensive player and a great post player and passer...I'd take that skillets slightly over what Love brings.

I'm sorry you can't follow simple logic.

Are you under the impression that Gasol guards equally well from the 4 as the 5?

[DMAVS41]

Are you under the impression that Gasol guards equally well from the 4 as the 5?

No. Not at all.

Are you under the impression that Love could guard as well at the 5 as he does at the 4?

My point is that Gasol can play the 5 defensively far better than Love can. And I think that is super important...enough to off-set Love's rebounding and 3 point range.

[AnaheimLakers24]

09 lakers rape 15 cavs. all we need is kobe an gasol.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

No. Not at all.

Are you under the impression that Love could guard as well at the 5 as he does at the 4?

My point is that Gasol can play the 5 defensively far better than Love can. And I think that is super important...enough to off-set Love's rebounding and 3 point range.

I don't see the point in crediting someone's defensive versatility if they are terrible at it when asked to guard other positions.

Love is a 4.
Gasol is a 5.

:confusedshrug:

[DMAVS41]

09 lakers rape 15 cavs. all we need is kobe an gasol.

I'd take the 09 and 10 Lakers as well if the Cavs don't add another big. Especially the 10 Lakers with Bynum being right enough to play 25 minutes a game.

[DMAVS41]

I don't see the point in crediting someone's defensive versatility if the are terrible at it when asked to guard other positions.

Love is a 4.
Gasol is a 5.

:confusedshrug:

What?

Gasol can be a plus defender at the 4 and 5. Love can't be a plus defender at the 5....hence his bottom 5 rim protection and shot blocking.

What is so hard about this?

Stop devaluing a player that came to your ****ing team and put up 19/11/3 61% TS 125 ortg and 104 drg combined over back to back titles and 46 playoff games while filling in for an injured Bynum...especially in 09. Hence the importance of that versatility I'm talking about.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

What?

Gasol can be a plus defender at the 4 and 5. Love can't be a plus defender at the 5....hence his bottom 5 rim protection and shot blocking.

What is so hard about this?

In what world is Gasol a plus defender at the 4?

:facepalm

[DMAVS41]

In what world is Gasol a plus defender at the 4?

:facepalm

See...this is where you are just ignorant.

His 06 season would be that world you ****ing moron. Gasol played PF mostly that year.

He had a great defensive year.

To use your stats....

2.3 drapm (over double Love's from 14)
5.4 defensive win shares (1.7 more than Love)
100 drg (4 points better than Love)

This is why it's hard to have conversations with people that are ignorant to what reality actually is.

What world is Gasol a plus defender at the 4? The one in which he played PF and had a very good defensive year and played a big role in his team having the 2nd best defense.

Ether...

[Yao Ming's Foot]

See...this is where you are just ignorant.

His 06 season would be that world you ****ing moron. Gasol played PF mostly that year.

He had a great defensive year.

To use your stats....

2.3 drapm (over double Love's from 14)
5.4 defensive win shares (1.7 more than Love)
100 drg (4 points better than Love)

This is why it's hard to have conversations with people that are ignorant to what reality actually is.

What world is Gasol a plus defender at the 4? The one in which he played PF and had a very good defensive year and played a big role in his team having the 2nd best defense.

Ether...

Was that the same year Dirk averaged 30 on him and they were swept in 4?

DAT plus D

[DMAVS41]

Was that the same year Dirk averaged 30 on him and they were swept in 4?

DAT plus D

Great comeback.

So now playing PF and the most minutes on the 2nd rated defense in the league while having a 100 drating, 2.3 defensive rapm...etc.

That isn't enough for you to admit you were wrong?

This is what I can't stand about this forum now. It's always been bad in this area, but you have people literally just clearly wrong about something and they can't admit it.

You facepalm when I say Gasol can be a plus defender at PF and ask what world that is possible.

I then show you he played the most minutes on his team overall and played the majority of those minutes at PF on the 2nd ranked defensive team...and you come back with him getting raped by Dirk?

Well, considering Dirk also raped the Spurs/Duncan...I'd say just about anyone is going to struggle with Dirk. 4 years earlier, a pre prime Dirk destroyed a KG led Wolves team to the tune of 33/16 on 69% TS.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Great comeback.

So now playing PF and the most minutes on the 2nd rated defense in the league while having a 100 drating, 2.3 defensive rapm...etc.

That isn't enough for you to admit you were wrong?

This is what I can't stand about this forum now. It's always been bad in this area, but you have people literally just clearly wrong about something and they can't admit it.

You facepalm when I say Gasol can be a plus defender at PF and ask what world that is possible.

I then show you he played the most minutes on his team overall and played the majority of those minutes at PF on the 2nd ranked defensive team...and you come back with him getting raped by Dirk?

Well, considering Dirk also raped the Spurs/Duncan...I'd say just about anyone is going to struggle with Dirk. 4 years earlier, a pre prime Dirk destroyed a KG led Wolves team to the tune of 33/16 on 69% TS.

What is there to admit? I have you using defensive metrics that you initially conveniently ignored in your initial post to "prove" a side argument. :oldlol:

I'm sure Boozer has some good defensive metrics with the Bulls too. That doesn't make him a plus PF defender. :facepalm

[dubeta]

07 Gasol was twice the player Love will ever be

[DMAVS41]

What is there to admit? I have you using defensive metrics that you initially conveniently ignored in your initial post to "prove" a side argument. :oldlol:

I'm sure Boozer has some good defensive metrics with the Bulls too. That doesn't make him a plus PF defender. :facepalm

Dude...

You said;

"In what world is Gasol a plus defender at the 4"

I showed you this...using the metrics you wanted me to use...and you still won't admit he was a plus defender at the 4.

And that is my point. That I'd take Gasol because of his defensive versatility and length that allows him, in his peak/prime, to be a plus defender at PF and C.

Love, while I actually think he is a fine defender overall and absolutely does not suck like you claimed, could not play center. I showed you why. He's one of the worst rim protecting bigs in the league...and I think that is really important if you can get both....especially with a team like the Cavs who are going to rely hugely on an old Andy that is often hurt.

But because we aren't factoring in teams and such...I'd still take Gasol because there aren't a lot of quality rim protectors anyway...and as I showed you...Gasol can play both positions defensively in a way Love simply can't...or hasn't shown an ability to.

We all know why you made this thread. It's to undersell a beast of a player in Gasol that basically was a 20/10/3 guy in the playoffs for you while playing both PF and C on both sides of the ball really well.

Guys like that don't just grow on trees and it's absolutely a legit conversation to talk about Pau Gasol vs Love at this point as to who the better player is.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Dude...

You said;

"In what world is Gasol a plus defender at the 4"

I showed you this...using the metrics you wanted me to use...and you still won't admit he was a plus defender at the 4.

And that is my point. That I'd take Gasol because of his defensive versatility and length that allows him, in his peak/prime, to be a plus defender at PF and C.

Love, while I actually think he is a fine defender overall and absolutely does not suck like you claimed, could not play center. I showed you why. He's one of the worst rim protecting bigs in the league...and I think that is really important if you can get both....especially with a team like the Cavs who are going to rely hugely on an old Andy that is often hurt.

But because we aren't factoring in teams and such...I'd still take Gasol because there aren't a lot of quality rim protectors anyway...and as I showed you...Gasol can play both positions defensively in a way Love simply can't...or hasn't shown an ability to.

We all know why you made this thread. It's to undersell a beast of a player in Gasol that basically was a 20/10/3 guy in the playoffs for you while playing both PF and C on both sides of the ball really well.

Guys like that don't just grow on trees and it's absolutely a legit conversation to talk about Pau Gasol vs Love at this point as to who the better player is.

Your point is based on defensive metrics in 06 Pau Gasol was a plus defender at the 4 and therefore a better defender than Love despite the fact that based on the very same defensive metrics 14 Love was a much better defender than 07 Gasol overall.

You need to sort of the argument with yourself before you attempt to debate other people. :facepalm

[DMAVS41]

Was Gasol a plus defender in 2006? What position did Gasol play in 2006? Please answer both.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I'm not basing it off that at all. I never once listed stats until you asked it for them.

And I provided you with solid information that shows why I'm uneasy about Love defensively compared to Gasol's excellent versatility.

You asked me to show you a world in which Pau is a plus defender at the 4 because you are an ignorant dude that didn't know Gasol's game before the Lakers.

Do you agree that Gasol was a plus defender at the 4 in 06?

Once again if you think the defensive metrics prove your point about versatility how do you ignore it within the very same thread about their overall defensive impact? It's either important for both points or neither. Which argument do you want to lose?

[DMAVS41]

Once again if you think the defensive metrics prove your point about versatility how do you ignore it within the very same thread about their overall defensive impact? It's either important for both points or neither. Which argument do you want to lose?

Was Gasol a plus defender in 2006? What position did Gasol play in 2006? Please answer both.

[DMAVS41]

Once again if you think the defensive metrics prove your point about versatility how do you ignore it within the very same thread about their overall defensive impact? It's either important for both points or neither. Which argument do you want to lose?

Dude. I cited the stats about why Love wouldn't be able to protect the rim like Pau.

That's all. You used all the other stuff. And it's a bad example because you don't get the point.

Just answer the questions above please so we can just make you look like the ****ing moron you are when you said Gasol couldn't be a good defender at the 4.

:roll:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Was Gasol a plus defender in 2006? What position did Gasol play in 2006? Please answer both.

I doubt it. I imagine you can take an defensively average PF replace in that system and come up with similar defensive metrics. Otherwise his metrics in 07-08 with the Grizzlies wouldn't be so terrible.

[chazzy]

Oh its Love..

But again, teams are built differently now then from 2008-2010, where the only "Superteam" were the Lakers and Celtics.

Every playoff team in the West has 2-3 stars right now.. Look at the Clippers, they're way better than the 2009 Magic who were fed to Kobe in '09, nowadays they're just one of the good teams in the West...

Dirk himself said he doesn't believe his 2006+2007 squads could make it as far as they did today. (Grantland Dinner with Nash)

Superstars win. From 2008-2010 Kobe was the only Top 5 Player with a capable team... LeBron/Wade/Dirk the next guys, were all left with mediocre-bad rosters, so it was Kobe's for the taking.

His toughest opponent in 2008 (West) would be the Chris Paul Hornets, in 2009 the Carmelo Anthony Magic...
So who are all the super teams in the East now? A Bulls team led by Rose, who hasn't played a meaningful amount of games for 2 years?

[DMAVS41]

I doubt it. I imagine you can take an defensively average PF replace in that system and come up with similar defensive metrics. Otherwise his metrics in 07-08 with the Grizzlies wouldn't be so terrible.

So your response is the 06 Gasol was not a plus defender at the 4? Fair enough.

So...I'd then use that exact same rationale for Love on the Wolves in 13 and 14. With Love in 11 and 12 they were terrible defensively. I think it was the system that made them better in 13 and 14.

Right back at you.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

So your response is the 06 Gasol was not a plus defender at the 4? Fair enough.

So...I'd then use that exact same rationale for Love on the Wolves in 13 and 14. With Love in 11 and 12 they were terrible defensively. I think it was the system that made them better in 13 and 14.

Right back at you.

I don't think Love is a good defender. I just dont think Gasol is one either. Especially as a PF. :confusedshrug:

[DMAVS41]

I don't think Love is a good defender. I just dont think Gasol is one either. Especially as a PF. :confusedshrug:

Uhhhh...your position is obvious. We know you don't. And I really don't think you give Gasol enough credit.

I actually think Love is a fine defender it you pair him with a center. The problem is that...well, that is often really hard to do. So having a guy that can play both PF and C defensively is a big plus.

And it's not like Gasol isn't also an extremely productive offensive player as well.

I just think it's abundantly clear that you haven't spent much time watching Love currently...or more likely...watched much of Gasol before the Lakers.

[OncePerMonth]

Love is a better go to player, but Gasol's D likely made him a better complimentary player (triangle also made Gasol better).

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Uhhhh...your position is obvious. We know you don't. And I really don't think you give Gasol enough credit.

I actually think Love is a fine defender it you pair him with a center. The problem is that...well, that is often really hard to do. So having a guy that can play both PF and C defensively is a big plus.

And it's not like Gasol isn't also an extremely productive offensive player as well.

You don't need me here to debate points that I never made. I can leave.

Funny how I made the same point about Dirk needing a defensive C to compete for a championship while Kobe not having to rely on one player to fill that roll with two open spots in the frontcourt didn't seem to sway you in prior conversations. Did you forget where you got that line from? :confusedshrug:

The fact that posting a simple question and showing their respective stats brings out such defensive behavior about "my motives" leads me to believe that most people believe Love is better and some people do not want to admit as much because of non related factors.

[DMAVS41]

You don't need me here to debate points that I never made. I can leave.

Funny how I made the same point about Dirk needing a defensive C to compete for a championship while Kobe not having to rely on one player to fill that roll with two open spots in the frontcourt didn't seem to sway you in prior conversations. Did you forget where you got that line from? :confusedshrug:

The fact that posting a simple question and showing their respective stats brings out such defensive behavior about "my motives" leads me to believe that most people believe Love is better and some people do not want to admit as much because of non related factors.

Well, for starters, Dirk is a lot better defensively than you realize.

So I don't see the point with Kobe. There is no difference in Kobe getting a good center and Dirk getting a good center.

Also, the argument about the two roster spots actually hurts your argument. Gasol was playing one of those roster spots...in fact, contrary to your belief, he played a ton of PF on the Lakers...what position do you think he played when Bynum was out there? LOL...

If Pau isn't a good defender...and we know Kobe was nothing special (let me guess...all the defensive stats you used against Gasol won't apply to Kobe)... Why were the Lakers so good defensively once Gasol came over?

They went from 24th in 07. To 5th in 08, 6th in 09, 4th in 10, 6th in 11...So who are you crediting that with? Gasol, playing the most minutes by far out of any bigs on the Lakers during that time...just didn't have an impact? Wake the **** up clown...


You took issue with me taking Gasol. It's obvious to anyone reading the thread, It's also obvious to anyone reading the thread that you want to prop up Love and downplay Gasol.

I'm sorry, it's not just a controversial opinion to say that Gasol can protect the paint/rim better than Love. He clearly can.

When asked for evidence of that...I posted it.

You then are fixed on more non-sense that isn't even applicable.

[miles berg]

Gasol my a mile.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Well, for starters, Dirk is a lot better defensively than you realize.

So I don't see the point with Kobe. There is no difference in Kobe getting a good center and Dirk getting a good center.

Also, the argument about the two roster spots actually hurts your argument. Gasol was playing one of those roster spots...in fact, contrary to your belief, he played a ton of PF on the Lakers...what position do you think he played when Bynum was out there? LOL...

If Pau isn't a good defender...and we know Kobe was nothing special (let me guess...all the defensive stats you used against Gasol won't apply to Kobe)... Why were the Lakers so good defensively once Gasol came over?

They went from 24th in 07. To 5th in 08, 6th in 09, 4th in 10, 6th in 11...So who are you crediting that with? Gasol, playing the most minutes by far out of any bigs on the Lakers during that time...just didn't have an impact? Wake the **** up clown...


You took issue with me taking Gasol. It's obvious to anyone reading the thread, It's also obvious to anyone reading the thread that you want to prop up Love and downplay Gasol.

I'm sorry, it's not just a controversial opinion to say that Gasol can protect the paint/rim better than Love. He clearly can.

When asked for evidence of that...I posted it.

You then are fixed on more non-sense that isn't even applicable.


The Lakers were already good defensively before Gasol joined the team as evidenced by Bynum's 101 defensive rating in 08 considering he didn't share the court with Gasol at all that year. :facepalm

[DMAVS41]

The Lakers were already good defensively before Gasol joined the team as evidenced by Bynum's 101 defensive rating in 08 considering he didn't share the court with Gasol at all that year. :facepalm

And you'll notice that the versatility of Gasol being able to play both PF and C played a big role in maintaining that defensive level you clown. :facepalm

The most used lineup on that team all year had Gasol and not Bynum.
The 2nd most used lineup on that team all year had Bynum and not Gasol.

You literally just made my point for me.

Love couldn't have come over and played center on that team the way Gasol did. You really think a lineup featuring Love, Odom, and Walton as the bigs would be sustainable the way that Gasol, Odom, and Walton were? Wake up clown...

:roll:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

And you'll notice that the versatility of Gasol being able to play both PF and C played a big role in maintaining that defensive level you clown. :facepalm

The most used lineup on that team all year had Gasol and not Bynum.
The 2nd most used lineup on that team all year had Bynum and not Gasol.

You literally just made my point for me.

Love couldn't have come over and played center on that team the way Gasol did.

:roll:

:facepalm

I've spent three pages telling you you are overrating the value of Pau's ability to defend as a PF and your crushing blow is telling me that the Lakers 08 lineups most often featured Gasol at C or Bynum at C and not both at the same time.

How do you get dumber with every post?

[Keno]

the one that played defense.

[DMAVS41]

:facepalm

I've spent three pages telling you you are overrating the value of Pau's ability to defend as a PF and your crushing blow is telling me that the Lakers 08 lineups most often featured Gasol at C or Bynum at C and not both at the same time.

How do you get dumber with every post?

Hey moron.

My argument was that Gasol can guard both....PF and C...which he clearly can.

It's a blow to you because Love couldn't do that. Love couldn't come in and play center a lot of minutes on a good defense.

That was my whole argument you ****ing clown.

Also, what position do you think Gasol was playing on the 09 and 10 Lakers in the games bynum played? Bynum played 50 and 65 games respectively and played about 30 minutes per game.

It was Gasol's versatility that allowed that to happen...

You make it sound like I'm saying Gasol is some world beater defensively. He's obviously not. He just happens to be a player that can defend two positions and that really helps.

Considering he played a lot of PF and C on a lot of top defensive teams...I don't see your point at all.

Gasol can clearly defend the paint better than Love...hence you lose this whole BS argument.

How on earth is it not an accepted fact. Jesus...Love was like the 3rd worst rim defender in the league last year and we have to pretend that prime Gasol wasn't better? Shit...old Gasol last year was probably a better rim protector than Love.

I'm out...in my first post I said Love couldn't play center like Gasol. You argued it...now you are talking about Gasol being better defensively at center. Makes no sense at all. And you are the one that asked for stats you ****ing clown...you just didn't like them.

[secund2nun]

I like Love a lot, but I'd have to pick Gasol. He led Memphis to 50 wins and the playoffs in the West a few times.

Gasol is the real 2009 and 2010 finals MVP after all.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Hey moron.

My argument was that Gasol can guard both....PF and C...which he clearly can.

It's a blow to you because Love couldn't do that. Love couldn't come in and play center a lot of minutes on a good defense.

That was my whole argument you ****ing clown.

Also, what position do you think Gasol was playing on the 09 and 10 Lakers in the games bynum played? Bynum played 50 and 65 games respectively and played about 30 minutes per game.

It was Gasol's versatility that allowed that to happen...

You make it sound like I'm saying Gasol is some world beater defensively. He's obviously not. He just happens to be a player that can defend two positions and that really helps.

Considering he played a lot of PF and C on a lot of top defensive teams...I don't see your point at all.

Gasol can clearly defend the paint better than Love...hence you lose this whole BS argument.

How on earth is it not an accepted fact. Jesus...Love was like the 3rd worst rim defender in the league last year and we have to pretend that prime Gasol wasn't better? Shit...old Gasol last year was probably a better rim protector than Love.

I'm out...in my first post I said Love couldn't play center like Gasol. You argued it...now you are talking about Gasol being better defensively at center. Makes no sense at all. And you are the one that asked for stats you ****ing clown...you just didn't like them.

Gasol was playing center for the vast majority of the Lakers championship runs. Bynum was injured for the playoffs do you not remember that?

Gasol has been a disaster as a PF for the Lakers. Has he outplayed a single PF in any playoff series since taking on that super valuable versatile role? :rolleyes: