The horrible lie and myth surrounding Dirk's defense...

[stalkerforlife]

The Mavs are a much better defensive team with Nowitzki in the lineup. His defensive rating (points per 100 possessions) of 101.8 this season is the second lowest on the roster among players who average at least 15 minutes per game, well below the Mavs

[stalkerforlife]

The numbers actually indicate that Nowitzki has been a very good individual defender this season.

According to Synergy Sports, Nowitzki has allowed 0.81 points per possession when his man attempts to score, ranking 92nd in the NBA in that category. Opponents are shooting only 38 percent against him. And those numbers dipped significantly after a rough outing in Saturday’s loss to the Phoenix Suns on the tail end of a back-to-back.

Synergy’s analytics ranks Nowitzki as the NBA’s sixth most successful defender on post-ups (0.53 points per possession, 33.3 field goal percentage) and four most successful isolation defender (0.44, 20.8). Granted, Nowitzki usually defends the lesser scoring threat of the opponent’s center and power forward, but those numbers are still impressive nonetheless.

“I like to think that I can hold my ground a little better now than when I first got in the league,” Nowitzki said. “When I first got in the league, I wasn’t strong enough in my upper body to hold my ground. But I feel like I can hold my ground better and stand in there and obviously use my length. I don’t need to jump for shots. I’m not going to block a lot of shots on the ball anyway, so I try to use my length. Sometimes if they present the ball to me, I try to swipe it and get some deflections.

“It is what it is.”

[Im so nba'd out]

[QUOTE=stalkerforlife]The numbers actually indicate that Nowitzki has been a very good individual defender this season.

According to Synergy Sports, Nowitzki has allowed 0.81 points per possession when his man attempts to score, ranking 92nd in the NBA in that category. Opponents are shooting only 38 percent against him. And those numbers dipped significantly after a rough outing in Saturday

[BoutPractice]

He hasn't been a "bad" defender for ages.

[pastis]

just wait for profmurder, pointguard, markmadsen, navy and dresta to get in here and start hating.:facepalm

[OncePerMonth]

Dirk's D is underrated. I think it is common to assume jump shooting bigs are soft and terrible defenders (at least if their blocked shots aren't eye catching). Dirk is average to above average, when people seem to assume he is below average.

[kentatm]

He doesn't get a lot of blocks b/c he has become so good at dislodging/swiping the ball from away his man as they go up.

If those swipes and pokes were kept as a stat like blocks I think a lot of people would have a different opinion of Dirk's D.

[DMAVS41]

Lets not paint Dirk like a great defender though. He's never been that and never will be.

His inability to guard the pick and roll and recover to protect the rim is a real weakness that needs to be mentioned.

Looking at isolation defense is fine, but it's also far from the most important aspect of defense at the 4 and 5.

I totally agree that Dirk has actually been an above average defender really ever since like 01 and 02, but I also think we have to make sure we don't go too far the other way.

Also, Dirk is not really capable of playing center for long stretches...not that he should, but always needing a center to play next to him is something that impacts team building and reduces lineup flexibility.

But...Dirk knows where to go, was an excellent defensive rebounder most of his career, has good length, can guard the post very well (this is where he's absurdly under-rated), has mastered stripping driving guards, and actually is willing to take hard fouls.

And he's done all that hardly playing on defensive minded teams well suited around him (outside some Avery years and 2011)...

[navy]

Let me ask you this.

How many times last year or previously was Dirk asked to guard another player for defensive purposes?

[DMAVS41]

He doesn't get a lot of blocks b/c he has become so good at dislodging/swiping the ball from away his man as they go up.

If those swipes and pokes were kept as a stat like blocks I think a lot of people would have a different opinion of Dirk's D.

So true.

I bet he gets around 1.5 of those a game...and they serve the exact same purpose as blocks. He also knocks the ball of the opponents knee a decent number of times as well.

I said it in my post...he really has become a master at the clean strip.

[D-Rose]

OP sure is obsessed with Dirk the past couple days.

True Dirk and Mavericks fans don't give a shit about this rankings or validation crap. He's had an incredible career, just bloody appreciate the last few years of it. One of the greatest Metroplex figures of all time.

[JellyBean]

This is clearly a case of when stats are misleading. Dirk and defense.....:roll: Dirk can't play defense. Never had and never will.

[dubeta]

Just ask yourself, was Dirk a better defender than prime kobe??

If yes, then he was an above average defender

If no, then he was a below average defender

[Straight_Ballin]

Dirk > KG

Deal with it

[SCdac]

He's slow, not in his physical prime any more, not a shot blocker, and usually gets hidden on the weakest big man. Dallas' defense has been crap at various times and also the last two years, Dirk is a part of the weak defense.

Having said that, I think every player can be overrated or underrated by the right/wrong person.. happens to Dirk and his defense... but lets' be real, no player or team is scared of Dirk's defense... His redeeming qualities are that he's 7 foot tall and he's a smart player (on both offense and defense)

Either way, If I'm a coach nowadays, I'd say "go at him" kinda like in this youtube clip. Get him in foul trouble, tire him out, push him around, etc. More he works on defense less energy he has on the other end. Make him and teammates have to rotate and switch defenders. Defense isn't his or the Mavs forte... so exploit it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nTW1il3Big

[aj1987]

I totally agree that Dirk has actually been an above average defender really ever since like 01 and 02, but I also think we have to make sure we don't go too far the other way.
He's an average defender at best though. Not above average by any means.

[masonanddixon]

He's slow, not in his physical prime any more, not a shot blocker, and usually gets hidden on the weakest big man. Dallas' defense has been crap at various times and also the last two years, Dirk is a part of the weak defense.

Having said that, I think every player can be overrated or underrated by the right/wrong person.. happens to Dirk and his defense... but lets' be real, no player or team is scared of Dirk's defense... His redeeming qualities are that he's 7 foot tall and he's a smart player (on both offense and defense)

Either way, If I'm a coach nowadays, I'd say "go at him" kinda like in this youtube clip. Get him in foul trouble, tire him out, push him around, etc. More he works on defense less energy he has on the other end. Make him and teammates have to rotate and switch defenders. Defense isn't his or the Mavs forte... so exploit it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nTW1il3Big

Do you have a Dirk-radar on every topic about him that compels you to bring your typical misinformation and insults about the man? Your obsession borders on psychosis.

[Nowitness]

He doesn't get a lot of blocks b/c he has become so good at dislodging/swiping the ball from away his man as they go up.

If those swipes and pokes were kept as a stat like blocks I think a lot of people would have a different opinion of Dirk's D.

surely they are classed as steals?

[Cone]

op knows his stuff. :applause:

dirk hasnt been a 'bad' defender since the nellie days. dirk cant anchor a defense, but he is certainly not as bad as his reputation.

[DMAVS41]

He's an average defender at best though. Not above average by any means.

This is just not true statistically or functionally though.

Dirk grades out as a plus defender since like 01 iirc.

He was really poor his first couple years...then it changed. For whatever reason, people stuck to the narrative that was true when he was a ****ing rookie and pre prime player.

[DMAVS41]

surely they are classed as steals?

only if possession is changed.

if dirk pokes the ball out of bounds and the other team retains possession. you can't count it as a steal. the only way it could be counted as a steal would be if the Mavs got the ball.

so it's a "nothing" on the stat sheet for the most part unless i'm mistaken.

[Cone]

[QUOTE]Believe it or not, Dirk plays good D


Here

[aj1987]

This is just not true statistically or functionally though.

Dirk grades out as a plus defender since like 01 iirc.

He was really poor his first couple years...then it changed. For whatever reason, people stuck to the narrative that was true when he was a ****ing rookie and pre prime player.
Not talking about stats. Defensive stats are misleading and don't account for help defense and other stuff. I've said that Dirk is a horrible defender before and that's not true at all. He's not a bad defender by any means, but not an above average defender either. He's right there in the middle of the pack.

I agree with you that his first couple of years (when was actually a bad defender) still define his defensive capabilities (unfairly).

[stalkerforlife]

Just trying to get the truth out there, guys. No agenda. I just hate to see propaganda follow a player his entire career, based upon a small sample size.

Dirk was an average to above average defender for most of his career.

[DMAVS41]

Not talking about stats. Defensive stats are misleading and don't account for help defense and other stuff. I've said that Dirk is a horrible defender before and that's not true at all. He's not a bad defender by any means, but not an above average defender either. He's right there in the middle of the pack.

I agree with you that his first couple of years (when was actually a bad defender) still define his defensive capabilities (unfairly).

A lot of stats can indirectly capture help defense.

It's not random that guys like Duncan, KG, and Wallace find themselves at the top of defensive stats routinely....

This just sounds like semantics....so I'll stop and say we agree.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

It stuck because of Nelson. It really is as simple as that. People who have watched Dallas basketball for the last 20 years will know what I am talking about. Had Nelson never mentioned it, then Dirk would not have had the stigma like he has had for most of his career.

[Pointguard]

I don't get how defense is judged. A lot of people here will not call Rose a good defender after he held down all the elite at his position and confounded a HOF (Nash) unlike I ever seen another player do - and Nash said in respect, yeah, Rose is the MVP. Then Rose holds down the bigger and the most explosive position and one of the most explosive SG's ever in the playoffs. And I'm the only one who touts him as a very good defensive guard on these boards. But if Dirk did this it would make him a great defender, no doubt.

An average player guards the good and bad, the great and horrible at his position. If you aren't guarding good players at your position, how can you be considered a good defender. You can be a good defender of the mediocre but that doesn't make you good overall. The standard is lower. Rose shut down the elite at his position and the greatest at the upgrade position - naaah, he's an ok defender despite the team being tops in the whole league in almost all of his defensive responsibilities - perimeter defense, stopping the break, 3 point defense, stopping penetration.