ISH, where would you rank this NBA player as a passer?

[russwest0]

He averages 6.4 assists per game and 3.5 turnovers per game.

Where would you rank him ISH? Is he the best playmaker in the game?

[Inferno]

If it's Bran, then it's 6.4 assists and 3.5 turnovers :coleman: Using rounding to make him look worse..

[navy]

Depends. How many of those turnovers are from errant passes and how many points does he score?

[dubeta]

If Durant's 0.5 assist/turnover ratio during the finals is the standard then this player must be the fcuking GOAT passer :bowdown:

[MP.Trey]

"Passing" equals more than numbers. Good passes aren't always assists, and potentially none of those turnovers could be from passes. They could all be travels, charges, steps out of bounds, etc.

Watch a game to decide this shit.

[russwest0]

If it's Bran, then it's 6.4 assists and 3.5 turnovers :coleman: Using rounding to make him look worse..

Edited the OP. :cheers:

[TylerOO]

Stats dont show actual passing ability ya dumb bitch

[aj1987]

If it's Bran, then it's 6.4 assists and 3.5 turnovers :coleman: Using rounding to make him look worse..
KD - 5.5 APG and 3.5 TOV/G.

[Mass Debator]

You gotta factor in that some turnovers are because he plays as a go-to scorer too and gets strip from drives, gets blocked, or gets called for charges.

[fpliii]

Depends. How many of those turnovers are from errant passes and how many points does he score?
152 out of his 270 total turnovers during the season (1.97/game), 31 out of his 61 in the playoffs (1.55/game) were due to bad passes.

EDIT: For comparison, 93/145 (1.50/game) of CP3's were bad passes during the season, 21/39 (1.61/game) in the playoffs.

[russwest0]

KD - 5.5 APG and 3.5 TOV/G.

Yes KD too, like LeBron, averages 6 assists per game and 4 turnovers per game.

I guess the difference is that Durant does it with Thabo Sefolosha and Kendrick Perkins starting while LeBron does it with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh :cheers:

[MP.Trey]

152 out of his 270 total turnovers during the season (1.97/game), 31 out of his 61 in the playoffs (1.55/game) were due to bad passes.
What is their classification for "bad pass" though? Is there a "good pass but the receiver fumbled it" stat? :oldlol: Seems misleading to me.

[navy]

152 out of his 270 total turnovers during the season (1.97/game), 31 out of his 61 in the playoffs (1.55/game) were due to bad passes.

EDIT: For comparison, 93/145 (1.50/game) of CP3's were bad passes during the season, 21/39 (1.61/game) in the playoffs.

Not bad.

What was the point of this thread again?

[fpliii]

What is their classification for "bad pass" though? Is there a "good pass but the receiver fumbled it" stat? :oldlol: Seems misleading to me.
That's just based on the play-by-play. There's a ton of subjectivity involved, but it's the scorekeepers' responsibility to decide who gets the blame for the bad pass.

[dubeta]

LeBron once averaged 30ppg and 8.6 assists per game for a season

Who was the last person to put up those numbers? Oscar?

[russwest0]

What was the point of this thread again?

Read the title.

[aj1987]

Yes KD too, like LeBron, averages 6 assists per game and 4 turnovers per game.

I guess the difference is that Durant does it with Thabo Sefolosha and Kendrick Perkins starting while LeBron does it with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh :cheers:
Do you live in an alternate universe in which Westbrook and Ibaka do not play for the Thunder? Also, KD gets one less APG while averaging the same number of TOV's.

[navy]

What is their classification for "bad pass" though? Is there a "good pass but the receiver fumbled it" stat? :oldlol: Seems misleading to me.
The score keeper decides.

[imdaman99]

Yes KD too, like LeBron, averages 6 assists per game and 4 turnovers per game.

I guess the difference is that Durant does it with Thabo Sefolosha and Kendrick Perkins starting while LeBron does it with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh :cheers:
Branstans gonna tell you how Thabo and Perkins are better than Wade and Bosh :roll:

[Mass Debator]

LeBron once averaged 30ppg and 8.6 assists per game for a season

Who was the last person to put up those numbers? Oscar?
Only one I can think of recently was D-Wade with 30.2/7.5

[fpliii]

Just one more, Kevin Durant:

123/285 (1.52/game) for the season, 28/72 (1.47/game) for the playoffs.

[russwest0]

Do you live in an alternate universe in which Westbrook and Ibaka do not play for the Thunder? Also, KD gets one less APG while averaging the same number of TOV's.

How on earth would KD be assisting to Westbrook other than in a few transition moments?

If I had to guess, the player KD assists most is Ibaka. He also sets Perkins up with a lot of great passes, but then Perkins fukks them up as usual.

It will be interesting to see how well KD does with Morrow on the wing next year. He has gotten really good at dishing from the post, so maybe he could average around the ballpark of 6.5 assists per game next year.

[aj1987]

Only one I can think of recently was D-Wade with 30.2/7.5
Tiny - 34 PPG and 11 APG.

[russwest0]

Just one more, Kevin Durant:

123/285 (1.52/game) for the season, 28/72 (1.47/game) for the playoffs.

Damn, thats impressive. You know I would rep you for posting these if I could :oldlol:

Plus Durant gets these assists while controlling the ball a relatively low amount and while doing them on significantly less passes than say, a LeBron James takes to get them.

[MP.Trey]

Just one more, Kevin Durant:

123/285 (1.52/game) for the season, 28/72 (1.47/game) for the playoffs.
Keep in mind that LeBron averages 50.7 passes per game while Durant averages 38.5. Much more room for error with LeBron. But these are interesting.

[aj1987]

How on earth would KD be assisting to Westbrook other than in a few transition moments?

If I had to guess, the player KD assists most is Ibaka. He also sets Perkins up with a lot of great passes, but then Perkins fukks them up as usual.

It will be interesting to see how well KD does with Morrow on the wing next year. He has gotten really good at dishing from the post, so maybe he could average around the ballpark of 6.5 assists per game next year.
:oldlol:

You are one delusional individual.

[fpliii]

Actually, just wanted to do Westbrook:

100/177 (2.17/game) season and 44/83 (2.32/game) playoffs.

[russwest0]

Keep in mind that LeBron averages 50.7 passes per game while Durant averages 38.5. Much more room for error with LeBron. But these are interesting.

So if KD passed the ball as many times as LeBron did, he'd average well over 7 assists per game? (And this isn't even accounting for KD's teammates being less efficient scorers...)

Interesting.

[fpliii]

Damn, thats impressive. You know I would rep you for posting these if I could :oldlol:

Plus Durant gets these assists while controlling the ball a relatively low amount and while doing them on significantly less passes than say, a LeBron James takes to get them.
lol I'm just looking up the numbers on basketball-reference. They added new tables under the heading "Play-by-Play", so I just divided the number in the "Bad Pass" column by the number of games played (I listed total turnovers too, but it's unnecessary).

They also have offensive fouls and lost balls in the breakdown. "Other" is shot clock violations and other random shit.

Keep in mind that LeBron averages 50.7 passes per game while Durant averages 38.5. Much more room for error with LeBron. But these are interesting.
True. As volume increases, you'd expect more errors.

[aj1987]

So if KD passed the ball as many times as LeBron did, he'd average well over 7 assists per game? (And this isn't even accounting for KD's teammates being less efficient scorers...)

Interesting.
Yeah, maybe if he passed more instead of chucking, they would even have a better chance of winning as well. KD would also have a 30/5/5/5 season (with 5 turnovers, obviously).

[dubeta]

Are we gonna act like Durant didnt try padding his assist count this season?? :roll:

He played with 2 Goals: Get as many FT's, and as many assists as possible
This is cause he knew the only way to catch Bran for MVP was to pad his assists.

How many times did he hold the ball, run down the clock, and pass it to the corner for a 3? :oldlol:

And this guy purposely drives and dumps it to Perkins or Adams right under the basket for open layups

Its all forced, notice how in the playoffs his assists drop dramatically? because hes not thinking about assists then, its not natural for him

[MP.Trey]

So if KD passed the ball as many times as LeBron did, he'd average well over 7 assists per game? (And this isn't even accounting for KD's teammates being less efficient scorers...)

Interesting.
If he passed as many times as LeBron did, he'd probably be averaging over 4 turnovers as well and be averaging less points but take the good with the bad.

[russwest0]

Just imagine if OKC had a capable big man :roll: :roll: :roll:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-nfna-MHXNGk/UV7u9p8sREI/AAAAAAAAHL0/gsH6IQAbKL4/s1600/Kevin+Durant+and+Kendrick+Perkins+LOL.gif

At least Ibaka can catch and finish now....

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2246195/KDpass.gif

[russwest0]

If he passed as many times as LeBron did, he'd probably be averaging over 4 turnovers as well and be averaging less points but take the good with the bad.

Are we talking KD with LeBrons supporting cast or with his OKC one?

I must say, I was shocked that KD has a better passing/turnover ratio than LeBron considering that OKC is mediocre at 3pt shooting and that the lane is usually clogged with Perkins being a non-factor on the inside.

[MP.Trey]

Are we talking KD with LeBrons supporting cast or with his OKC one?

I must say, I was shocked that KD has a better passing/turnover ratio than LeBron considering that OKC is mediocre at 3pt shooting and that the lane is usually clogged.
Both. Durant isn't, and doesn't need to be the ball dominant player that LeBron is. He has a more than capable point guard and his skillset works the best if you put him in positions to score/make a play right away. Rather than LeBron who will, at times, dribble for 10 seconds of the shot clock in order to survey the court and try to calculate his move. If Durant was asked to do that on any team, his numbers would not be flattering. They're two different players, so the comparison is asinine imo.

[aj1987]

Are we talking KD with LeBrons supporting cast or with his OKC one?

I must say, I was shocked that KD has a better passing/turnover ratio than LeBron considering that OKC is mediocre at 3pt shooting and that the lane is usually clogged.
Except for the '13 season, Miami and OKC have pretty had the same 3pt %'s.

'14: Miami - 36.4% OKC - 36.1%
'13: Miami - 39.6% OKC - 37.7% (OKC was #3 in the League, BTW)
'12: Miami - 35.9% OKC - 35.8%

[JT123]

Are we talking KD with LeBrons supporting cast or with his OKC one?

I must say, I was shocked that KD has a better passing/turnover ratio than LeBron considering that OKC is mediocre at 3pt shooting and that the lane is usually clogged with Perkins being a non-factor on the inside.
The Heat were a very mediocre 3 point shooting team last season. Chalmers and Lebron were their best shooters percentage wise at 39 and 38 percent. For all the talk about Bosh's development as a 3 point shooter his actual percentage last year was very mediocre.

[russwest0]

Except for the '13 season, Miami and OKC have pretty had the same 3pt %'s.

'14: Miami - 36.4% OKC - 36.1%
'13: Miami - 39.6% OKC - 37.7% (OKC was #3 in the League, BTW)
'12: Miami - 35.9% OKC - 35.8%

Yeah but in OKC's starting lineup I don't know if anyone other than Durant even shoots over 36% from 3pt land. Our percentage this year were saved by some of the bench guys like Fisher and Butler who don't play a lot of their minutes with Durant.

[JT123]

Except for the '13 season, Miami and OKC have pretty had the same 3pt %'s.

'14: Miami - 36.4% OKC - 36.1%
'13: Miami - 39.6% OKC - 37.7% (OKC was #3 in the League, BTW)
'12: Miami - 35.9% OKC - 35.8%
:applause: Russ gets ethered again! :lol :lol
12 was kind of a weird year though, as Lebron and the whole team made a concentrated effort to shoot as few 3 pointers as possible.

[aj1987]

Yeah but in OKC's starting lineup I don't know if anyone other than Durant even shoots over 36% from 3pt land. Our percentage this year were saved by some of the bench guys like Fisher and Butler who don't play a lot of their minutes with Durant.
LeBron and Chalmers are the only two players who shot over 36% for the Heat as well.

[russwest0]

This is some interesting stuff being discussed here actually. I didn't come in here intending to discuss Durant but I must say you guys have me convinced; Kevin Durant is a better passer than LeBron James.

He turns the ball over less on his passes than LeBron does and he also gets assists at a far more efficient rate than LeBron does despite playing in a less efficient offense.

So now that we know that Durant is a better passer than LeBron, to revert back to my question in the OP, where do you guys rank LeBron as a passer?

[TheMarkMadsen]

Is this the same guy that had like 20 assist and 19 turnovers in the 2014 finals?

[aj1987]

This is some interesting stuff being discussed here actually. I didn't come in here intending to discuss Durant but I must say you guys have me convinced; Kevin Durant is a better passer than LeBron James.

He turns the ball over less on his passes than LeBron does and he also gets assists at a far more efficient rate than LeBron does despite playing in a less efficient offense.

So now that we know that Durant is a better passer than LeBron, to revert back to my question in the OP, where do you guys rank LeBron as a passer?
2 tiers over KD.

Oh, BTW... KD - 5.5 APG and 3.5 TOV's; LeBron - 6.4 APG and 3.5 TOV's.

[JerrySeinfeld]

This is some interesting stuff being discussed here actually. I didn't come in here intending to discuss Durant but I must say you guys have me convinced; Kevin Durant is a better passer than LeBron James.

He turns the ball over less on his passes than LeBron does and he also gets assists at a far more efficient rate than LeBron does despite playing in a less efficient offense.

So now that we know that Durant is a better passer than LeBron, to revert back to my question in the OP, where do you guys rank LeBron as a passer?

:roll:

The way you already know how people will respond to your thread and have a prepared response to their response is hilarious.

You still a bitch though.

[JerrySeinfeld]

2 tiers over KD.

Oh, BTW... KD - 5.5 APG and 3.5 TOV's; LeBron - 6.4 APG and 3.5 TOV's.

After looking through the stats I honestly don't see a big difference in playmaking from them at this stage in their careers. Durant has come a long way in terms of being a passer.

In terms of turnovers, LeBron is no doubt safer with controlling the ball while dribbling. I don't think that his passes are any safer at all though, and the stats someone above posted show that.

I'd honestly call it a wash. Both are pretty comparable passers at this point. Though I'm sure with the offense LeBron will be in next year, he'll average anywhere from 7 to 8 assists per game. Durant could probably do the same if allowed to play point in that offense though.

[pauk]

Its impossible to rank/evaluate a players passing ability/skills/vision based on assist averages alone.... a guy leading the league in apg is always the result of a starting pass first PG playing alot of minutes / dominating the ball, sometimes its a system player being on the correct seat... certainly a big amount of passing skills are required to obtain that feat, but it doesnt mean highest apg = having the best passing skills, more like it means the guy was the best distributor, assist guy.....

What am i talking about?
Pete Maravich averaged 5.4 apg for his career....
Larry Bird averaged 6.3 apg for his career....
They never led the league in assists, nowhere close.... yet, they accumulated some of the nastiest assists in NBA history, in vast abundance, they displayed amazing raw passing skills, innovative & difficult passes, the vision / passing skills they had are top 5 to me.... just by watching their games you would be able to see the difference between how they would pass the ball and the random PG who always averaged more assists than them.....

The guy you most probably are talking about (Lebron) belongs unfortunately in that same category when talking about passing skills....

[HomieWeMajor]

Its impossible to rank/evaluate a players passing ability/skills/vision based on assist averages alone.... a guy leading the league in apg is always the result of a starting pass first PG playing alot of minutes / dominating the ball, sometimes its a system player being on the correct seat... certainly a big amount of passing skills are required to obtain that feat, but it doesnt mean highest apg = having the best passing skills, more like it means the guy was the best distributor, assist guy.....

What am i talking about?
Pete Maravich averaged 5.4 apg for his career....
Larry Bird averaged 6.3 apg for his career....
They never led the league in assists, nowhere close.... yet, they accumulated some of the nastiest assists in NBA history, in vast abundance, they displayed amazing raw passing skills, innovative & difficult passes, the vision / passing skills they had are top 5 to me.... just by watching them you would be able to see the difference between them and the random PG who always averaged more assists than them.....

The guy you most probably are talking about (Lebron) belongs unfortunately in that same category when talking about passing skills....
Pauk can you tell me more about Chinese point guard Sun Yue ?

[pauk]

Pauk can you tell me more about Chinese point guard Sun Yue ?

Sun Yue, lol, what do you want to know? There is google/wikipedia aswell... :O

[aj1987]

After looking through the stats I honestly don't see a big difference in playmaking from them at this stage in their careers. Durant has come a long way in terms of being a passer.

In terms of turnovers, LeBron is no doubt safer with controlling the ball while dribbling. I don't think that his passes are any safer at all though, and the stats someone above posted show that.

I'd honestly call it a wash. Both are pretty comparable passers at this point. Though I'm sure with the offense LeBron will be in next year, he'll average anywhere from 7 to 8 assists per game. Durant could probably do the same if allowed to play point in that offense though.
KD is a pretty good passer, but he's not on LeBron level yet. LeBron averaged more assists than current KD, on the same number of TOV's in his ROOKIE year. There's a reason why most people consider him to be a top 2 passer at the forward position of all time. The guy also averaged 8.6 assists while scoring 30 a game in '10 (3.4 TOV's).

[KG215]

Its impossible to rank/evaluate a players passing ability/skills/vision based on assist averages alone.... a guy leading the league in apg is always the result of a starting pass first PG playing alot of minutes / dominating the ball, sometimes its a system player being on the correct seat... certainly a big amount of passing skills are required to obtain that feat, but it doesnt mean highest apg = having the best passing skills, more like it means the guy was the best distributor, assist guy.....

What am i talking about?
Pete Maravich averaged 5.4 apg for his career....
Larry Bird averaged 6.3 apg for his career....
They never led the league in assists, nowhere close.... yet, they accumulated some of the nastiest assists in NBA history, in vast abundance, they displayed amazing raw passing skills, innovative & difficult passes, the vision / passing skills they had are top 5 to me.... just by watching their games you would be able to see the difference between how they would pass the ball and the random PG who always averaged more assists than them.....

The guy you most probably are talking about (Lebron) belongs unfortunately in that same category when talking about passing skills....
Didn't you make a thread a couple years ago about LeBron being a better passer than Bird while citing APG numbers as one of your main arguments?

[russwest0]

Is this the same guy that had like 20 assist and 19 turnovers in the 2014 finals?

Yeah, he only had one game where he had more assists than turnovers :roll:

[dubeta]

SMH LeBron's a better, more efficient scorer, better rebounder (rebound percentage), better passer, AND defender

damn durant cant catch a break?

du#2 for his entire career :oldlol: :applause:

[pauk]

Didn't you make a thread a couple years ago about LeBron being a better passer than Bird

Yep, indeed. Thats what i think at least (today, kindof skeptical about it, comes and goes) and no i dont think its an obnoxious thought, thats the point, i explained pretty well what leads me towards that thought, but really, its a moot point between those two in that department, im happy with anybody thinking Bird > Lebron in that department, hell im happy with anybody thinking Bird > anybody (maybe not Magic though), he was that good.... when talking about strictly raw passing skills/vision...


while citing APG numbers as one of your main arguments?

Yes APG was mentioned, but not in the purpose of using it to say he had better passing skills, but in the purpose of saying he was a better distributor, in that thread i broke down anything that had to do with passing, APG was used in that/different context as far as i remember? Dont usually read/remember those old threads, lots of clowning in the past, even though that one wasnt, not that much :P.....