ISH Hall of Fame Project: Class of 1960 Voting

[G.O.A.T]

You may make your own list or Copy and Paste the Ballot Below and bold the names of the players you want to vote into our Hall of Fame.

You can vote for up to ten players.

Feel free to include any arguments you want to make on behalf of any of the players or against any of the players.

Also this is the time to nominate any players I have not listed that were retired before 1960.

Anyone who is not yet involved in the project may participate in this round as well, please check in at the main thread (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=350733) and I'll add you too our roster.


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Beard, Ralph - Two-time all-NBA pick in only two NBA seasons. Great playmaker, defender as a guard.

Beckman, John - The “Babe Ruth of Basketball” as he was known. Made his name for Original Celtics.

Borgmann, Bennie - Top scorer for the Original Celtics in the 1920's. Later became coach in the early NBA.

Brennan, Joe - Star of the early ABL for Brooklyn Visitations. Three time Champions in the 20’s.

Cervi, Al - NBL MVP as point guard in 1947 turned player coach in early NBA.

Clifton, Nathaniel - First Black player signed by NBA, Globetrotter great, turned Knick stopper.

Cooper, Charles - Starting Center for the Harlem Rens at their peak. Nicknamed “Tarzan”.

Cooper, Chuck - First Black player drafted in the NBA, 2nd round 1950 by the Celtics.

Davies, Bob - Best Guard of the pre-Cousy era. NBL MVP and best player on 1951 NBA Champs.

Dehnert, Dutch - Strong rebounding forward for Original Celtics, innovator of modern pivot play.

David "Big Dave" DeJernett - One of the top black stars during the early integration period. Played for several barnstorming teams in the 30's and early 40's.

Edwards, Cowboy - High Scoring star of the late-30’s NBL, 3-time MVP.

Fulks, Joe - NBA’s first scoring star, Jumpin’ Joe also won the first NBA Title with the Warriors.

Gallatin, Harry - Undersized post player for perennial bridesmaid Knicks in 1950’s. Nicknamed “The Horse”

Gates, Pops - Standout for Globetrotters and Rens, helped break the NBL color barrier in 1946.

Groza, Alex - The most efficient high scoring player of the 1950's. Played just two season and was Mikan's top rival.

Haynes, Marcus - Ball handling wizard for the Globetrotters in the 40’s and 50’s/ Fixture of later Trotter teams.

Holman, Nat - One of the first prototypical point guards, starred for Original Celtics for over a decade.

Issacs, John - All-around stud for Harlem Rens, nicknamed “Boy-Wonder” for his amazing moves.

Jeanette, Buddy - Best player on 1948 NBA Champion Bullets, great playmaker, accurate shooter.

Jenkins, Fat - Point guard and captain as well as all world ball handler for the Harlem Rens.

Johnston, Neil - Top offensive center of the pre-Wilt era, 2nd best player on 1956 Champs.

Kurland, Bob - One of the first great 7 footers. Won two gold medals, but never played professional, despite offers.

Lapchick, Joe - Center for the Original Celtics and first coach of the Knicks, Helped push for integration.

Lloyd, Earl - First Black player on an NBA Championship team, the ‘55 Nationals.

Hank Luisetti - Pioneer of the jump shot, basketball's first matinee idol, revolutionised the game with his shooting and dribbling. The Pete Maravich or Bob Cousy of his era.

Mccauley, Ed - 3-time All-NBA first teamer, one of the top offensive centers of the pre-shot clock era.

McDerrmott, Bobby - The best player of the 1940’s, won multiple MVP’s and Championships.

Mikan, George - The first Superstar and first Giant in basketball history. Won NBA title every season he was healthy.

Mikkelsen, Vern - Skilled and strong forward who was usually third
best player for Laker Champs.

Phillip, Andy - Five-time All-star and one of the best assist men in the 1950’s.

Pollard, Jim - Outstanding athlete and all-around forward. Second best player on 1947-1954 Lakers

Posey, Cumberland - The best black basketball player before the 1930’s, played at all-white college under an alias.

Risen, Arnie - Leading scorer for 1951 NBA Champs. Also played backup role on 1957 Champion Celtics.

Rocha, Red - Defensive Forward and one of the most respected early stars.

Sedran, Barney - One of the greatest and littlest little men of all-time. 5'4" star of the earliest pro leagues in the Teen's and 1920's.

Stokes, Maurice - Uncommonly gifted forward, LeBron James 30 years before he was born.

Tatum, Goose - The original “Clown Prince” of Basketball, Tatum combined skill and showmanship like few could.

Wanzer, Bobby - Former “Whiz Kid” was a top notch defender and a capable scoring and passing guard.

Wooden, John - Eventual legendary UCLA coach was an elite scorer in the early NBL.

Zaslofsky, Max - Four-time all-NBA selection and one of the best playoff performances of the early 1950’s.


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Committee Members

G.O.A.T - 30's - Pistons/General
L. Kizzle - 20's - Rockets
Arbitrary Water -
SexSymbol - 20's - Lakers/Bobcats
Smook A. -
Gotterdammerung - 30's - Rockets/General
GODbe - Teens - Lakers
MP.Trey - 20's - Cavs
gts -
magnax1 - 20's - Jazz
nightprowler10 - 30's - Bulls
longhornfan1234 - 20's - Spurs
bballnoob1192 - 20's - Lakers
hangintheair - 20's - Hornets
JohnFreeman - 20's - Kings
riseagainst -
WillC -
kshutts1 - 30's - Bulls/Lakers

Bold = Has Voted
Italics = Active


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Voting Results so far

8 ballots cast

(8) George Mikan
(7) Bobby McDerrmott
(6) "Jumpin'" Joe Fulks
(5) Ed Macauley
(5) Maurice Stokes
(4) Neil Johnston
(4) Nat Holman
(4) Goose Tatum
(3) Arnie Risen
(3) Pops Gates
(3) Cumberland Posey
(3) Bob Davies
(3) Charles "Tarzan" Cooper
(2) LeRoy "Cowboy" Edwards
(2) Harry Gallatin
(2) Marcus Haynes
John Issacs
Joe Lapchick
Max Zaslofsky
Alex Groza
Pollard, Jim
Vern Mikkelsen
Dutch Dehnert
John Beckman
Phillip, Andy
Hank Luisetti

[L.Kizzle]

You're including more than NBA players. I'm assuming most don't know a thing about Pops Gates or Joe Lapchick. So they may unfairly not recieve many votes.

[G.O.A.T]

You're including more than NBA players. I'm assuming most don't know a thing about Pops Gates or Joe Lapchick. So they may unfairly not recieve many votes.

I agree, but maybe most don't deserve the initial nod as their contributions came at a time the game was in it's infancy. I'm hoping to lean on the more knowledgeable posters here to make a case for the lesser known players and by the time we get around to the second round of voting, maybe people will be informed enough to include the correct players, or at least a better (or just different) representation than the current hall.

[L.Kizzle]

I agree, but maybe most don't deserve the initial nod as their contributions came at a time the game was in it's infancy. I'm hoping to lean on the more knowledgeable posters here to make a case for the lesser known players and by the time we get around to the second round of voting, maybe people will be informed enough to include the correct players, or at least a better (or just different) representation than the current hall.
I think a lot of those early players from the original Celtics and Rens and Trotters are more important than early NBL/BAA/NBA players save for a select few.

[MP.Trey]

I wanna do a bit of research on some of these guys if I'm gonna vote. I recognize about 80-90% of the names on that list, but a couple I'm sketchy on. How long are you going to keep this open for?

[G.O.A.T]

I think a lot of those early players from the original Celtics and Rens and Trotters are more important than early NBL/BAA/NBA players save for a select few.


My goal will be to select the most important player or couple of players of each era. I do have a natural bias towards the Harlem Rens players for all the time I've spent researching them and the respect I have for what they did as men, not just players, as it is now the Hall of Fame has the team enshrined, which I view as a cop out. At the moment I believe I'll be voting for Tarzan Cooper, John Issacs and probably Clarence Jenkins.

Mikan is the only lock of the group, but I'm not sure he should be. I think McDermott, Davies and Edwards are all pretty solid choices considering how unanimously respected they were during the decade immediately preceding the BAA/NBA and in Davies case the first few years of the league.

[L.Kizzle]

My goal will be to select the most important player or couple of players of each era. I do have a natural bias towards the Harlem Rens players for all the time I've spent researching them and the respect I have for what they did as men, not just players, as it is now the Hall of Fame has the team enshrined, which I view as a cop out. At the moment I believe I'll be voting for Tarzan Cooper, John Issacs and probably Clarence Jeinkins.

Mikan is the only lock of the group, but I'm not sure he should be. I think McDermott, Davies and Edwards are all pretty solid choices considering how unanimously respected they were during the decade immediately preceding the BAA/NBA and in Davies case the first few years of the league.
I would have made a pre NBA era for voting and 1946-1960 voting. Seperate the Celtics Rens ect from the beginning of the formation of the NBA. i think its too huge time periods lumped together.

[GODbe]

:biggums:

[Gotterdammerung]

Fulks, Joe
The first player to develop the jumpshot. Back then, players were instructed to take only hook shots, layups or set shots. Jumpers were not allowed, cuz your accuracy dropped the minute your feet left the floor. But Fulks' coach Gottlieb figured out that jumpers were unblockable and could be utilized against taller defenders. So Joe Fulks averaged a crazy 23 ppg, almost 8 points over the second highest scoring average.

Gallatin, Harry
Gotta love a guy named "Horse."

Gates, Pops
Johnston, Neil
Mccauley, Ed
McDerrmott, Bobby
Mikan, George
The true Babe Ruth of the NBA, Mikan led the first dynasy (champs in 1949, 50, and 52 through 54). Mikan was bigger, stronger, and more intelligent, not to mention ferocious and more fundamentally sound than any other center. Scored with either left or right hand hooks, pivot shots, step back one handed flips and put backs. From 1946 till 1954 Mikan averaged the mid to high 20s during an era where 15 points was amazing.

Another reason to consider Mikan: the NBA devised new rules to limit his effectiveness: widen the lane, grant defensive players inside lane spots on FTs and disallow offensive goaltending. They even thought about raising the basket to 12 feet! :oldlol:

Pollard, Jim
Posey, Cumberland
Risen, Arnie
Stokes, Maurice


I nominate Ralph Beard.
Yes, he only played two years (1949 to 1951) with the Olympians. He was named to the All-NBA second team in his rookie season, and made the All-NBA first team in the next season. A very intense player who rarely turned it over, drove to the basket with courage, and played excellent defense. His coach Adolph Rupp said he was "almost a perfect basketball player." :eek:

[L.Kizzle]

Beard was apart of that Famous point shaving scandal.

[AnaheimLakers24]

trash era

[G.O.A.T]

I would have made a pre NBA era for voting and 1946-1960 voting. Seperate the Celtics Rens ect from the beginning of the formation of the NBA. i think its too huge time periods lumped together.

I get what your saying, but this section is going to be the hardest to get through regardless, I wanted to cover it all in one section because of that.


:biggums:

Yeah, I thought you might have a hard time with this group. Feel free to sit it out and learn until we get into players you know more about.


Fulks, Joe
The first player to develop the jumpshot. Back then, players were instructed to take only hook shots, layups or set shots. Jumpers were not allowed, cuz your accuracy dropped the minute your feet left the floor. But Fulks' coach Gottlieb figured out that jumpers were unblockable and could be utilized against taller defenders. So Joe Fulks averaged a crazy 23 ppg, almost 8 points over the second highest scoring average.

Gallatin, Harry
Gotta love a guy named "Horse."

Gates, Pops
Johnston, Neil
Mccauley, Ed
McDerrmott, Bobby
Mikan, George
The true Babe Ruth of the NBA, Mikan led the first dynasy (champs in 1949, 50, and 52 through 54). Mikan was bigger, stronger, and more intelligent, not to mention ferocious and more fundamentally sound than any other center. Scored with either left or right hand hooks, pivot shots, step back one handed flips and put backs. From 1946 till 1954 Mikan averaged the mid to high 20s during an era where 15 points was amazing.

Another reason to consider Mikan: the NBA devised new rules to limit his effectiveness: widen the lane, grant defensive players inside lane spots on FTs and disallow offensive goaltending. They even thought about raising the basket to 12 feet! :oldlol:

Pollard, Jim
Posey, Cumberland
Risen, Arnie
Stokes, Maurice


I nominate Ralph Beard.
Yes, he only played two years (1949 to 1951) with the Olympians. He was named to the All-NBA second team in his rookie season, and made the All-NBA first team in the next season. A very intense player who rarely turned it over, drove to the basket with courage, and played excellent defense. His coach Adolph Rupp said he was "almost a perfect basketball player." :eek:


You have 11 guys listed on your ballot. I'll add Beard to the nominees as well as Alex Groza.

[G.O.A.T]

From my first edition of my GOAT List book...


The Ancestors of the NBA


In the 1930’s and 1940’s Major League Baseball, the National Hockey League and the National Football League were established major professional sports, with teams owning large arenas and stadiums and attracting fans in droves and increasing media attention. Meanwhile Pro basketball was an afterthought, the College game was immensely more popular and despite barnstorming teams and AAU teams being common, most of the numerous pro leagues that sprouted in the early 1900’s never took hold. By 1940, the top pro basketball league in the United States was the National Basketball League, which had been founded five years earlier as the Midwest Basketball Conference. Initially comprised of thirteen previously independent or unassembled teams from Great Lakes cities like Akron, Buffalo, Dayton and Ft. Wayne, the league was created and the teams sponsored by The General Electric, Good Year and Firestone Tire companies. After the industrial sponsored teams combined with a number of previously independent pro teams, the first significant ancestor of the NBA was born. It started out a far cry from anything resembling a professional basketball league today. Teams were allowed to make their own schedule and play as many or as few games as they like, only being required to play ten total games against other league members and four on the road. Games consisted of four ten minutes quarters or three fifteen minute periods, as determined by the home team. In those 40 or 45-minute contests, ball possession was the rage, teams ran organized structured offense that revolved around basket cuts and set shots. Final scores in the 20, 30’s and 40’s were the norm, and shooting percentages rarely exceeded the 25% mark. In the 1938 playoffs, eventual champion Akron Goodyear Wingfoots scored 154 points, in their five playoff games combined. The Wingfoots defeated the Oshkosh All-stars in that final, but the All-Stars would become the leagues most consistent and celebrated team in the early years. The made it to the finals in each of the league first five seasons winning back-to-back titles in ‘41 and ’42 behind 6’5” star center Leroy “Cowboy” Edwards. Edwards was an all-NBL selection eight times from 1938-1946 and won the league’s MVP award in 1938, ’39 & ’40. A dominant physical force for his day, Edwards was also the leagues scoring leader in those first three seasons averaging between 12 and 16 points per game. Basketball historically has been marked by a progression of changes to the rules, training methods, type of player etc. that have all been aimed to speed up the pace of the game. The first such major change came along in 1937 and was a rule change abandoning the center jump after every made basket. This greatly improved the pace and rhythm of the game and led to the games first scoring boom; a significant move away from the lower paced style that had been popular and preferred in the games earliest form. As legendary UCLA coach and early pro basketball player John Wooden describes “I've always thought that it would have been great to have played my entire career under those rules. The year after the center jump was eliminated I scored twice as much as I had ever scored before, even though I had slipped some because of a leg injury. The game without the center jump was right up my alley.” That year was 1937-38 in the NBL and Wooden was scoring twice as much, nearly 15 a game, and chasing Cowboy Edwards for pro basketball’s first scoring title. Wooden, who taught school and played his pro ball on the weekends for years for the Indianapolis Kautskys, was playing for the Whiting Ciesar All-Americans; early in 1938 they played the Oshkosh All-Stars and a week prior Edwards had set a league record with 21 points. He outscored Wooden 11-6 in this match-up but the All-Americans won by three, 29-26 in overtime.

Later that month, Wooden’s All-Americans played the Kankakee Gallaghers, the team Edwards had set the scoring record against. Wooden, not to be outdone, set a new league record with 25 points. It stood for just three days before Edwards dropped 28 on the Gallagers to reclaim the record. A week later the two stars met on the same court again, this time it took two overtimes before the All-Americans prevailed 42-39 behind 17 points from Wooden, four more than Cowboy Edwards had for Oshkosh. The teams played two more times in February and Wooden again bested Edwards, though slightly in both games, however the All-Stars won both contests to even the season series at 2-2. Edwards would continue to surge late in the season setting the mark at 30, then 31 points. He scored 24 (to Wooden’s 15) as the All-Stars beat the All-Americans for a third straight time. Then finally late in the season he wrapped up the scoring title with a 39-point effort against Wisconsin Collegians. Still this exciting scoring race and the records that were broke during it, greatly increased the popularity of the game especially in Oshkosh, a city that along with Sheboygan was one of the first true pro hoops hotbeds in the country.

As good as the All-Stars were, their problems were symptomatic of why the league was eventually bound to fail. Though Oshkosh was the first and most consistent winning team in the league, they were not a big enough market for where pro basketball was headed. In fact much of the Midwestern based league’s franchises were finding it tough to stay competitive and economically stable and by 1943 the league was down to four teams. However following the end of the Second World War, a number of returning GI’s became players or fans of the sport, athletic competitions were in high demand for the people of the United States and the league began to rebound. Fred Zollner’s Ft. Wayne Pistons had become the league’s new top dog, winning the title in 1944 & 1945 and winning more than 75% of their games from 1943-1946 behind guard Bobby McDermott. McDermott was one of the games first great long distance shooters. He had dropped out of high school, become a playground legend and started playing pro basketball in the American Basketball League with the Brooklyn Visitations (where he won a scoring title and league title in 1935) and barnstorming with the Original Celtics. When the Pistons were started up in 1941, McDermott made the move to the NBL. He won the league’s MVP from 1943 to 1946 and the Pistons won the league title three years consecutive from ’44 to ’46. Teaming with early pro stars like Buddy Jeanette, in addition they also won the World Basketball Tournament for those three years and are the only team to win it three times.

The expanding talent pool and fan base created by the end of the war worked in favor of all American professional sports, and basketball was no exception. In addition to the Pistons, the league added a franchise in Rochester in 1945-46, the Royals, owned by Lester Harrison, which was an immediate success. Before the 1946-47 season, the Syracuse Nationals franchise under Danny Biasone and the Ben Kerner’s Tri-Cities Blackhawks (Originally Buffalo Bison) were added to the mix and the once dying league now had 12 teams again and was playing a 44 game schedule. Still, there was concern when the Basketball Association of America (BAA), in its first year of operation had attracted a number of big name players and teams and was posting higher scoring and attendance numbers while playing a 60 game schedule. However the NBL still had one “big” advantage.

(continued in next post)

[G.O.A.T]

Prior to the start of the 1946-47 season, the Chicago American Gears added George Mikan to their team. A star at DePaul, Mikan made an instant impact in the pro ranks. He averaged 16.5 points per game as a rookie and along with Bobby McDermott (in his only season as player/coach for Chicago) the American Gears, which had been a .500 team in their first two years of existence, went 26-18, fourth best in the league and beat 27-win Indianapolis, 28-win Oshkosh and 31-win Rochester en route to the Title. Mikan joined the Minneapolis Lakers for the 1947-48 season after the American Gears folded and led the team to a 43-17 mark, second best in the league behind the Royals who won 44 games. The two teams meet in what were unquestionably the most significant finals in the history of the league. It was a battle of contrasting styles and contrasting stars. The Lakers of course, led by the 6

[the mesiah]

C'mon man , no Dr james Naismith :facepalm :facepalm

[L.Kizzle]

Players Nominated:

-David "Big Dave" DeJernett
-Bob Kurland
-Bill Spivey though I'm not sure if he retired in 60 or 61? And not from the NBA, played in Eastern League.



My votes:

Cooper, Charles

Dehnert, Dutch

Gates, Pops

Haynes, Marcus

Holman, Nat

Jenkins, Fat

McDerrmott, Bobby

Mikan, George

Posey, Cumberland

Tatum, Goose

[gts]

ok I see we don't have to pick a full ten if i'm reading that correctly and I also want to do a bit of research, how long do we have?

[G.O.A.T]

I wanna do a bit of research on some of these guys if I'm gonna vote. I recognize about 80-90% of the names on that list, but a couple I'm sketchy on. How long are you going to keep this open for?

Probably a couple days to let the project gain momentum.

We may open the second one before we close this one

[G.O.A.T]

My votes for the first round will be for the following...


Charles "Tarzan" Cooper
Bob Davies
LeRoy "Cowboy" Edwards
"Jumpin'" Joe Fulks
John Issacs
Nat Holman
Joe Lapchick
Bobby McDerrmott
George Mikan
Cumberland Posey

I realize now we don't have the collective might to pull of the Class of 1960 yet. So I will take all players who receive a vote by the end of the night and add them to the Class of 1965 voting which I think will begin the real debates and allow us to set a standard we understand.

Please continue to vote if you wish, I will be opening a new thread late tonight or tomorrow, but I will continue to monitor this one as well.

[hangintheair]

My Vote

Beckman, John

Fulks, Joe

Johnston, Neil

Mccauley, Ed

McDerrmott, Bobby

Mikan, George

Phillip, Andy

Risen, Arnie

Stokes, Maurice

Tatum, Goose

[gts]

So I'm assuming our HOF is not an exclusive NBA/ABA hall of fame which is great... do we also have non player contributions to the sport?

Still feeling out my criteria to be in the HOF so I'll be a bit conservative at first... One of the things I'm struggling with is voting in a player who had a limited career although I think you have to take into account these guys didn't make much money and other factors like a war...

Here's my list, I'm still looking at some guys may add to it or bring them back again in a second ballot attempt

George Mikan
Vern Mikkelsen
Pops Gates
Arnie Risen



non players
John Wooden as a coach

My nomination as a contributor to the game... Abe Saperstein, founder of the Harlem Globetrotters, Commish of the ABL and originator of the 3 point shot, Even came up with the design of the uniforms which were a precursor to todays Globetrotter unis and he sewed them himself having learned how to sew from his father

[WillC]

I feel strongly that Hank Luisetti should be on the short list.

I would also include Barney Sedran, Benny Borgmann and Harry Hough. Those were probably the best of the HOFers that have been omitted from the opening list. That said, I doubt many people know their achievements without looking them up, so they're perhaps unlikely to be voted in.

Hopefully I'm not too late for the party. I'd like to vote, if that's okay? Let me know - thank you. I think this is a great idea. Something a bit different.

[G.O.A.T]

I feel strongly that Hank Luisetti should be on the short list.

I would also include Barney Sedran, Benny Borgmann and Harry Hough. Those were probably the best of the HOFers that have been omitted from the opening list. That said, I doubt many people know their achievements without looking them up, so they're perhaps unlikely to be voted in.

Hopefully I'm not too late for the party. I'd like to vote, if that's okay? Let me know - thank you. I think this is a great idea. Something a bit different.

I was really hoping you find this, I can think of few people more helpful for such a project. Vote away.

[robert_shaww]

My votes:

Mikan, George

Posey, Cumberland

Cooper, Charles

Dehnert, Dutch

Gates, Pops

Holman, Nat

Jenkins, Fat

Haynes, Marcus

Tatum, Goose

McDerrmott, Bobby

[Gotterdammerung]

Beard was apart of that Famous point shaving scandal.

For what it's worth: Ralph Beard was banned from the NBA once they found out that during his college career he took money from gamblers to shave points. It's true he did take money, but it was a time-honored tradition at the University of Kentucky. :confusedshrug:

[G.O.A.T]

For what it's worth: Ralph Beard was banned from the NBA once they found out that during his college career he took money from gamblers to shave points. It's true he did take money, but it was a time-honored tradition at the University of Kentucky. :confusedshrug:

To be fair, they only cheat when they win. I'm pretty sure Billy Gillispie ran a semi-clean program.

[kshutts1]

Davies, Bob - Best Guard of the pre-Cousy era. NBL MVP and best player on 1951 NBA Champs.


Fulks, Joe - NBA’s first scoring star, Jumpin’ Joe also won the first NBA Title with the Warriors.

Gallatin, Harry - Undersized post player for perennial bridesmaid Knicks in 1950’s. Nicknamed “The Horse”


Groza, Alex - The most efficient high scoring player of the 1950's. Played just two season and was Mikan's top rival.


Johnston, Neil - Top offensive center of the pre-Wilt era, 2nd best player on 1956 Champs.


Mccauley, Ed - 3-time All-NBA first teamer, one of the top offensive centers of the pre-shot clock era.

McDerrmott, Bobby - The best player of the 1940’s, won multiple MVP’s and Championships.

Mikan, George - The first Superstar and first Giant in basketball history. Won NBA title every season he was healthy.


Stokes, Maurice - Uncommonly gifted forward, LeBron James 30 years before he was born.


Zaslofsky, Max - Four-time all-NBA selection and one of the best playoff performances of the early 1950’s.

McDermott was the only one I nominated without knowing much about, but the tag he was given of "MULTIPLE MVPS" sold me. Not even going to do research into that.
And I'm not counting Groza's short career against him. Not too many people had a very lengthy career back then.

I'd love to nominate some players for their work "outside" of basketball.. starting integration, etc... but that's not a criteria of mine for this project. It's 100% worthy of a HOF induction, but it just won't be a factor I use in determining anything, unless there's a crazy-even tie. My reason for excluding those things is likely controversial, but essentially it's my belief that if it was not them, it would have been someone else. Kudos to them for being that person... but it would have happened eventually anyway.

[G.O.A.T]

So I'm assuming our HOF is not an exclusive NBA/ABA hall of fame which is great...

All professional basketball and international competition. Obviously it will be mostly NBA/ABA players, but if nothing else we can share knowledge on some less commonly considered options.


ok I see we don't have to pick a full ten if i'm reading that correctly and I also want to do a bit of research, how long do we have?

In some rounds you'll want to pick more than ten, in others you might only feel four are up to par. Vote for as many as are deserving up to ten.


do we also have non player contributions to the sport?

I want to do that at some point, but for now focus on contributions as a player only.


Still feeling out my criteria to be in the HOF so I'll be a bit conservative at first... One of the things I'm struggling with is voting in a player who had a limited career although I think you have to take into account these guys didn't make much money and other factors like a war..

I think it's important to be conservative first and foremost, at least until a standard/precedent is established. I choose the option of having a second round of voting for those on the borderline players or the lesser known players who people will learn about. Also it offers a way to correct in incongruities after the initial voting.

[G.O.A.T]

The NBL was the top pro league before the BAA/NBA. And even though the BAA was in bigger cities with bigger venues, the NBL had better players and teams for the first few years of their short rivalry. Here are the NBL's MVP winners by year, that might help some of you vote.


National Basketball League MVP

1937-38 - LeRoy Edwards
1938-39 - LeRoy Edwards
1939-40 - LeRoy Edwards
1940-41 - Ben Stephens
1941-42 - Chuck Chuckovits
1942-43 - Bobby McDermott
1943-44 - Bobby McDermott
1944-45 - Bobby McDermott
1945-46 - Bobby McDermott
1946-47 - Bob Davies
1947-48 - George Mikan
1948-49 - Don Otten

and Scoring leaders by year

1937-38 Leroy Edwards (16.2)
1938-39 Leroy Edwards (11.9)
1939-40 Leroy Edwards (12.9)
1940-41 Ben Stephens (11.0)
1941-42 Chuck Chuckovits (18.5)
1942-43 Bobby McDermott (13.7)
1943-44 Mel Riebe (17.9)
1944-45 Mel Riebe (20.2)
1945-46 Bob Carpenter (13.9)
1946-47 George Mikan & Al Cervi (16.5)
1947-48 George Mikan (21.3)
1948-49 Don Otten (14.0)

[kshutts1]

The NBL was the top pro league before the BAA/NBA. And even though the BAA was in bigger cities with bigger venues, the NBL had better players and teams for the first few years of their short rivalry. Here are the NBL's MVP winners by year, that might help some of you vote.


National Basketball League MVP

1937-38 - LeRoy Edwards
1938-39 - LeRoy Edwards
1939-40 - LeRoy Edwards
1940-41 - Ben Stephens
1941-42 - Chuck Chuckovits
1942-43 - Bobby McDermott
1943-44 - Bobby McDermott
1944-45 - Bobby McDermott
1945-46 - Bobby McDermott
1946-47 - Bob Davies
1947-48 - George Mikan
1948-49 - Don Otten
Seriously? What were parents back then thinking?

[WillC]

Too many to choose from. More than 10 deserve to be in the basketball Hall of Fame. So I look forward to voting again for those that miss the cut this time around.

I will vote for the following players:

George Mikan - Obvious.

Joe Fulks - Easily one of the 100 greatest players in NBA history in my opinion. Other than Wilt Chamberlain, no other player has had such a big margin over the rest of the players in the league in terms of scoring ability. And he was good enough to lead his team to a championship. Totally underrated.

Maurice Stokes - Outstanding college player. Along with the Big O, Bird and LeBron, he is the best all-around player in basketball history, in my opinion.

Bob Davies - Another hugely underrated NBA star. A pioneer on a par with Cousy.

Hank Luisetti - Pioneer of the jump shot, basketball's first matinee idol, revolutionised the game with his shooting and dribbling. The Pete Maravich or Bob Cousy of his era.

Nat Holman - Pioneer and all-around star. I rate him as the Original Celtics' best player, from what I've read.

Leroy 'Cowboy' Edwards - Dominant NBL player who is overlooked today.

Bobby McDermott - See above. Outstanding shooter.

Ed Macauley - A forgotten star of the NBA. Didn't put up the numbers that Neil Johnston did, but was more highly regarded at the time.

Goose Tatum - Greatest Globetrotter, just edging out Marques Haynes and Tarzan Cooper.

[fpliii]

I don't have the time (or knowledge really) to commit to a project of this scope, but I'll certainly follow along.

Just wondering why you left Kurland off the initial list? Is election supposed to be strictly on the basis of professional careers? Bob was a dominant player in college/Olympics/AAU play.

[L.Kizzle]

I don't have the time (or knowledge really) to commit to a project of this scope, but I'll certainly follow along.

Just wondering why you left Kurland off the initial list? Is election supposed to be strictly on the basis of professional careers? Bob was a dominant player in college/Olympics/AAU play.
I mentioned him along with Spivey.

[fpliii]

I mentioned him along with Spivey.
Yeah, just saw that (should've skimmed the thread first). Good nominations.

[G.O.A.T]

Not considering college careers here only because this is an NBA forum and I'm not sure if everyone has the same level of interest in college basketball.

I do think that Olympic basketball as well as AAU (competitively equal to pro ball in many instances pre-NBA) is work considering and thus I will add Luisetti to the candidates.

Anyone who would like to edit their votes may do so based on the new nominees.

Also I have decided to keep this open for one more day and then go to the next thread. For each Class forward I will allow 72 hours as minimum, more if needed or if worthy conversation/debate/discussion warrants.

[MP.Trey]

Okay, I vote for:

Hank Luisetti
Jumpin Joe Fulks
George Mikan
Maurice Stokes
Ed Macauley
Neil Johnston
Bobby McDermott
Goose Tatum
Nat Holman
Marcus Haynes


Damn so tough to do. I feel like I'm leaving out so many that impacted the game so much.

EDIT: Changed Tarzan Cooper for Hank Luisetti.

[WillC]

Presumably lots of you have seen this before:

ASSOCIATED PRESS' GREATEST PLAYER OF THE LAST
50 YEARS [1950]

C George Mikan 1946-1950 139 votes
F Hank Luisetti --------- 123
F Nat Holman 1922-1930 31
F Chuck Hyatt --------- 16
C Alex Groza 1949-1950 13
F Joe Fulks 1946-1950 7
F Red Debernardi --------- 7
C Joe Lapchick 1920-1930 6
G Dutch Dehnert 1922-1932 6
C Bob Kurland --------- 4
Jack McCracken --------- 3
G Bobby McDermott 1934-1950 2
G Johnny Wooden 1932-1939 2
Pete Barry - 1
G Ralph Beard 1949-1950 1
Lew Beck --------- 1
F Vince Boryla 1949-1950 1
C Leroy Edwards 1935-1949 1
F Joseph Fogarty 1904-1912 1
G Bruce Hale 1947-1950 1
C Bob Harris 1949-1950 1
G Nat Hickey 1925-1947 1
F Wah Wah Jones 1949-1950 1
G Andy Phillip 1947-1950 1
C Ed Wachter 1896-1924 1

[G.O.A.T]

Okay, I vote for:

Tarzan Cooper
Jumpin Joe Fulks
George Mikan
Maurice Stokes
Ed Macauley
Neil Johnston
Bobby McDermott
Goose Tatum
Nat Holman
Marcus Haynes

Damn so tough to do. I feel like I'm leaving out so many that impacted the game so much.

There will be later votes for contributors and pioneers of the game.

This round is strictly for the best of the best players.

Also remember that any player receiving multiple votes will be included in the next class of nominees.

Voting to this point

8 ballots cast

(8) George Mikan
(7) Bobby McDerrmott
(6) "Jumpin'" Joe Fulks
(5) Ed Macauley
(5) Maurice Stokes
-------------------------------
(4) Neil Johnston
(4) Nat Holman
(4) Goose Tatum
(3) Arnie Risen
(3) Pops Gates
(3) Cumberland Posey
(3) Bob Davies
(3) Charles "Tarzan" Cooper
(2) LeRoy "Cowboy" Edwards
(2) Harry Gallatin
(2) Marcus Haynes
John Issacs
Joe Lapchick
Max Zaslofsky
Alex Groza
Pollard, Jim
Vern Mikkelsen
Dutch Dehnert
John Beckman
Phillip, Andy
Hank Luisetti

[Gotterdammerung]

I admit I don't feel qualified to really vote for anyone I didn't watch play live, and that is before 1990. I recall a few games in 1986, but that was bits and snatches of some amazing plays.

Even though I've read many books, spoken with people who lived "back in the day," and watched many classic games on NBA TV and ESPN, and on Youtube, it's not the same. So I won't have much confidence in any of my picks until 1990.
:durantunimpressed:

[G.O.A.T]

Anyone else who wants to vote or anyone who would like to join for this or the next round, please do so before 6pm et today.