Islamic State discussion

[East_Stone_Ya]

I thought this terror group that is building caliphate stretching from Syria to Iraq deserves it's own thread.

http://commdiginews.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/isis813-2.jpg



What are its origins?
In 2006, al Qaeda in Iraq -- under the ruthless leadership of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi -- embarked on seemingly arbitrary and brutal treatment of civilians as it tried to ignite a sectarian war against the majority Shia community.
It came close to succeeding, especially after the bombing of the Al-Askariya Mosque, an important Shia shrine in Samarra, which sparked retaliatory attacks.
But the killing of al-Zarqawi by American forces, the vicious treatment of civilians and the emergence of the Sahwa (Awakening) Fronts under moderate Sunni tribal leaders nearly destroyed the group.
Nearly, but not quite.
When U.S. forces left Iraq, they took much of their intelligence-gathering expertise with them.
Iraqi officials began to speak of a "third generation" of al Qaeda in Iraq.
Two years ago, a former spokesman for the U.S. military in Iraq, Maj. Gen. Jeffrey Buchanan, warned that "if the Iraqi security forces are not able to put pressure on them, they could regenerate."
The capability of those Iraqi forces was fatally compromised by a lack of professional soldiers, the division of military units along sectarian lines and a lack of the equipment needed for fighting an insurgency, such as attack helicopters and reconnaissance capabilities.
The new al Qaeda was rebranded in 2006 as the Islamic State in Iraq (ISI). It would add "and Syria" to its name later.
The group exploited a growing perception among many Sunnis that they were being persecuted by the Shia-dominated government led by Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, starved of resources and excluded from a share of power.
The arrest of senior Sunni political figures and heavy-handed suppression of Sunni dissent were the best recruiting sergeants ISI could have. And it helped the new leader re-establish the group's influence.

[East_Stone_Ya]

What is ISIS trying to accomplish?


It wants to establish an Islamic caliphate, or state, stretching across the region.
ISIS has begun imposing Sharia law in the towns it controls. Boys and girls must be separated at school; women must wear the niqab or full veil in public. Sharia courts often dispense brutal justice, music is banned and the fast is enforced during Ramadan.
Sharia law covers both religious and non-religious aspects of life.


Where does the group's money come from?


In the beginning, al Baghdadi focused on secrecy -- with loosely connected cells making it more difficult to hunt down the leadership -- and on money.
Extortion, such as demanding money from truck drivers and threatening to blow up businesses, was one revenue stream; robbing banks and gold shops was another.
It seemed the group had become little more than gangsters, but the income would help finance a growing stream of suicide attacks and assassinations that would poison the political atmosphere.
It would also aid the recruitment of Sunni tribal fighters and finance spectacular prison raids that liberated hundreds of fighters, as well as attacks on police patrols and the assassination of officials.
Now, al Baghdadi has a new strategy for generating resources: large-scale attacks aimed at capturing and holding territory.
Ayham Kamel of the Eurasia Group, a U.S.-based consultancy, says that in the latest iteration of this strategy, ISIS will "use cash reserves from Mosul's banks, military equipment from seized military and police bases and the release of 2,500 fighters from local jails to bolster its military and financial capability."


http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/12/world/meast/who-is-the-isis/

[East_Stone_Ya]

What's been its key to survival?


Al Baghdadi avoided al-Zarqawi's mistakes by avoiding the alienation of powerful tribal figures.
When it captured Falluja, west of Baghdad, in January, it worked with local tribal leaders rather than raise its black flag over the city.
One of the group's ideologues, Abu Mohammed al-Adnani, even admitted: "As for our mistakes, we do not deny them. Rather, we will continue to make mistakes as long as we are humans. God forbid that we commit mistakes deliberately."


How is it drawing support?


ISIS is, in essence, trying to capture and channel the resentment of the Sunni street. And in both Syria and Iraq, it is trying to win favor through dawa -- organizing social welfare programs and even recreational activities for children, distributing food and fuel to the needy, and setting up clinics.
Again, having the money matters. The price it demands is enforcement of the strict Sharia code.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/12/world/meast/who-is-the-isis/

[sweggeh]

Terrorists giving Islam a bad name :facepalm

Hope they burn in hell

[Breezy]

War in Iraq: Another failed big government program.

[East_Stone_Ya]

Al-Qaeda spinoffs are gaining strength. The fanatical Islamic State of Iraq and Syria has conquered much of western Iraq. As we warned 10 years ago: If "Iraq becomes a failed state, it will go to the top of the list of places that are breeding grounds for attacks against Americans at home." That nightmare scenario may now be coming to pass.

Senior national security leaders are especially alarmed about the foreign fighters who have flooded into neighboring Syria. More than 1,000 hold European passports, which would enable many to enter the United States without a visa. Even worse, dozens of Americans have joined them. When these battle-hardened, radicalized fighters return to the U.S. and Europe, they will pose a serious threat.


http://www.thenorthwestern.com/story/opinion/columnists/2014/07/22/terrorism-iraq-isis/13015087/

[MMM]

Iraq has been such a failure but once America went in they should have had the conviction to stay until they had it right. I understand the concern about American lives but it seems like more American lives will be at risk in the long run.

[FatComputerNerd]

Vice has been working on a rather interesting documentary about them.

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsCZzpmbEcs

Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzCAPJDAnQA

Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOaBNbdUbcA

Part 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGQwTOsh__0


What's going on in Iraq and Syria is pretty scary

[East_Stone_Ya]

Vice has been working on a rather interesting documentary about them.

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsCZzpmbEcs

Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzCAPJDAnQA

Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOaBNbdUbcA

Part 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGQwTOsh__0


What's going on in Iraq and Syria is pretty scary


Thanks for the links, didn't know Vice was doing work on this....will definitely watch it later


Also if you are interested about the rebels in Syria then I recommend a documentary named ''The Return to Homs''

[ArbitraryWater]

Where are those Vids where they film their killings? (Recent threads)

[RidonKs]

ISIS is, in essence, trying to capture and channel the resentment of the Sunni street. And in both Syria and Iraq, it is trying to win favor through dawa -- organizing social welfare programs and even recreational activities for children, distributing food and fuel to the needy, and setting up clinics.


Ayham Kamel of the Eurasia Group, a U.S.-based consultancy, says that in the latest iteration of this strategy, ISIS will "use cash reserves from Mosul's banks, military equipment from seized military and police bases and the release of 2,500 fighters from local jails to bolster its military and financial capability."


key facts, thanks for posting them east stone ya

again, and i've said it before, if you're trying to figure out what course of action to take in iraq and syria, faced with a terrifying organization with a lot of popular support and a growing military capacity, you need to figure out why it has been so successful.

the social welfare programs are very important to note. it's the exact same reason the muslim brotherhood remained relevant in egypt for decades in the face of severe state repression.

but the other reason it's been successful is much more simple. the al-malaki government was a failure. it was not inclusive. it was harsh. it was propped up not by the population but by outside support and funding. and it was highly unpopular. the sectarian division tells part of that story but certainly not the whole tale. thousands of people were imprisoned in mosul, many of them ordinary political activists without a militant bone in their body. the collapse of the iraqi army is highly relevant. in fact its probably the most important and telling event there of the past six months.

these are important facts i hope people take the time to digest.

[RidonKs]

let me just add, this is all not subordinate to the fact but in spite of the violent jihadist theocratic nature of isis itself. it's a hideous organization that is guided by a depraved ideology. in other words, it's extreme.

this begs the question; why is northern syrians and iraqis supporting it? if it's because of a fervent belief in the doctrine itself, that's a very serious problem that might - MIGHT - justify the use of military force. but if it's for some other reason or a whole collection of reasons, including some mentioned in this thread, then THOSE are the issues that need to be seriously examined.

as it happens, serious examination has taken place though you rarely hear about it. there is a dynamic we've seen in the past few decades in the middle east where broad popular factions sympathize with islamic jihadists but disapprove of both their fundamentalism and their tactics. you see it with hamas and the palestinians, you see it in afghanistan from the 80s during the russian invasion all the way to the present with the mujhahadeen, you see it throughout north africa particular prior to the arab spring. and you can see it currently with isis.

people sympathize because its a nationalist resistance movement. and when western powers ignore these views and impose catastrophic foreign policy throughout the region, and then other regional powers invest the same way, you get social breakdown and upheaval and occasionally civil war.

[LJJ]

Important thing to note here is that like Hamas, like the Taliban, like essentially every terrorist organisation of the past 30 years, IS is an organisation of the young progressives in Islamic society. It's no coincidence each iteration of these Islamist organisations is bigger, more outrageous and more widely supported than before.

A lot of people made this mistake during the Arab spring. They think the young counter-culture in places like Syria, Egypt, Tunisia is exactly like counter-culture we experienced in the west in the 60s, 70s and 80s. A counter-culture can go both ways however, the young generation in the Islamic world want a more extreme interpretation of Islam.

That's why we see these arab spring movements turn out the way they have turned out. That's also why we see Turkey, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc adopt a more extreme interpretation of Islam with each new generation. To be an Islamist is the progressive stance in these countries, while the old conservatives are more liberal, more democratically inclined and more religiously open.

Islamic State is not something that is going away. It's simply the newest look at what that area of the world is headed too.

[East_Stone_Ya]

let me just add, this is all not subordinate to the fact but in spite of the violent jihadist theocratic nature of isis itself. it's a hideous organization that is guided by a depraved ideology. in other words, it's extreme.

this begs the question; why is northern syrians and iraqis supporting it? if it's because of a fervent belief in the doctrine itself, that's a very serious problem that might - MIGHT - justify the use of military force. but if it's for some other reason or a whole collection of reasons, including some mentioned in this thread, then THOSE are the issues that need to be seriously examined.

as it happens, serious examination has taken place though you rarely hear about it. there is a dynamic we've seen in the past few decades in the middle east where broad popular factions sympathize with islamic jihadists but disapprove of both their fundamentalism and their tactics. you see it with hamas and the palestinians, you see it in afghanistan from the 80s during the russian invasion all the way to the present with the mujhahadeen, you see it throughout north africa particular prior to the arab spring. and you can see it currently with isis.

people sympathize because its a nationalist resistance movement. and when western powers ignore these views and impose catastrophic foreign policy throughout the region, and then other regional powers invest the same way, you get social breakdown and upheaval and occasionally civil war.


I agree with your post.

I think that Maliki being shia and implementing more of a shia approach to the government policies helped alienate the sunni communities. So this would explain how mostly sunni areas were so quickly overtaken by IS.

[RidonKs]

i don't see your point ljj. islamicist groups may be advocating social measures in certain cases which are an improvement over the dictatorships and military juntas that have governed each of the countries you mentioned since the second world war. and obviously there is overlap between fundamentalists and progressives. but what's your evidence for assuming that were the country to fall into the hands of the young generation you're describing, it would be more repressive and violent than regimes that have dominated in the past... much of the time with western support?

i agree with the premise that not every counterculture is the same. but we need to look comparatively at history and popular polling and see how people actually feel. and then as citizens of countries with significant interests in the region, act accordingly.

[Dresta]

let me just add, this is all not subordinate to the fact but in spite of the violent jihadist theocratic nature of isis itself. it's a hideous organization that is guided by a depraved ideology. in other words, it's extreme.

this begs the question; why is northern syrians and iraqis supporting it? if it's because of a fervent belief in the doctrine itself, that's a very serious problem that might - MIGHT - justify the use of military force. but if it's for some other reason or a whole collection of reasons, including some mentioned in this thread, then THOSE are the issues that need to be seriously examined.

as it happens, serious examination has taken place though you rarely hear about it. there is a dynamic we've seen in the past few decades in the middle east where broad popular factions sympathize with islamic jihadists but disapprove of both their fundamentalism and their tactics. you see it with hamas and the palestinians, you see it in afghanistan from the 80s during the russian invasion all the way to the present with the mujhahadeen, you see it throughout north africa particular prior to the arab spring. and you can see it currently with isis.

people sympathize because its a nationalist resistance movement. and when western powers ignore these views and impose catastrophic foreign policy throughout the region, and then other regional powers invest the same way, you get social breakdown and upheaval and occasionally civil war.No it isn't: it's an imperialist movement derived from religious ideology and its conferment of the divine right to rule on those who seek power over other people; it seeks the reestablishment of the caliphate, where rule is determined not by national customs, but a barbaric religious morality that many had human beings had long discarded due to their destructive and illiberal nature. It is the most reactionary geopolitical force present in the world right now, and it is drawing in Islamic lunatics from around the world (not simply from Iraq or Syria) - it cannot be defined nationalistically, it just can't.

[LJJ]

i don't see your point ljj. islamicist groups may be advocating social measures in certain cases which are an improvement over the dictatorships and military juntas that have governed each of the countries you mentioned since the second world war. and obviously there is overlap between fundamentalists and progressives. but what's your evidence for assuming that were the country to fall into the hands of the young generation you're describing, it would be more repressive and violent than regimes that have dominated in the past... much of the time with western support?

i agree with the premise that not every counterculture is the same. but we need to look comparatively at history and popular polling and see how people actually feel. and then as citizens of countries with significant interests in the region, act accordingly.

There is no specific point. Just clearing some misconceptions. The Islamic world is not suddenly going to turn into a secular, liberal society any time soon. All these countries are moving towards becoming a theocracy, even Turkey.

And IS is not some kind of backwards, extremist outlier. It's not a fad either, and their ideology is not fringe. They actually are trendsetters and populists.

[RidonKs]

No it isn't: it's an imperialist movement derived from religious ideology and its conferment of the divine right to rule on those who seek power over other people; it seeks the reestablishment of the caliphate, where rule is determined not by national customs, but a barbaric religious morality that many had human beings had long discarded due to their destructive and illiberal nature. It is the most reactionary geopolitical force present in the world right now, and it is drawing in Islamic lunatics from around the world (not simply from Iraq or Syria) - it cannot be defined nationalistically, it just can't.
the bolded is not true. it's extreme, maybe the most extreme of any groups with real significance, but it's not the most reactionary. demonstrating that would be a long digression though.

you should look at your own words. i'm curious what you believe they're reacting to / against.

regardless, i'm aware of the doctrine. you're right, its vision cannot be defined nationalistically. but the fact remains isis has been so successful and so consistently in the news because it has popular support in parts of the country and funding from other regional interests. that different people support it for different reasons is patently obvious. equally obvious is that for many people, a significant factor is nationalistic in character.

thus, it can and needs to be evaluating through a nationalistic lens. as well as an economic lens, as well as a cultural lens, etc etc etc.

you aren't doing that. you're consumed with the ideology and not plugged into the facts on the ground, which as always carry much more weight.

[RidonKs]

The Islamic world is not suddenly going to turn into a secular, liberal society any time soon.
perhaps not. the middle east has been devastated and mangled by foreign intervention for decades now. the dependence on fuel resources is completely unsustainable. and the fundamentalism is dangerous.

nevertheless, you'd be blind to fail to see movement in that direction in certain areas, with certain groups, etc. it's plagued in violence but there are "green chutes" to use the phrase of i think bill clinton.

[East_Stone_Ya]

Islamic State has global ambitions



EMMA ALBERICI: The Islamic State has also - you mentioned North Africa and its inroads there. It has also reportedly made some ideological inroads into Indonesia. So now you have young men and women carrying the IS flag through towns and villages in the world's largest Muslim state. How much of that - how much of a concern is that, given the proximity to Australia?

DAVID KILCULLEN: Well I think it is a concern and it was interesting to see - somewhat disturbing to see Abu Bakar Bashir, the head of Jemaah Islamiah, make those comments this last week suggesting that they need to think about supporting the Islamic State rather than al-Qaeda. Although it's also worth noting that he got a lot of pushback from even within the other jihadi groups within Indonesia. I think that jihadist groups in Indonesia generally have a very low level of support, dramatically lower, actually, than you see in really any other country or any other region in the world, but of course you don't need a numerically large number of supporters to be able to pose a significant terrorist threat. So I think it's a real threat, but I think there's dangers in overblowing it and potentially alienating significant numbers of people.

I think the real areas where IS is gaining adherence right now are in Yemen, in Somalia, other parts of Africa, Libya, into West Africa in the Sahel and that, to my mind, is actually the real dangerous area of this kind of expansion of the Islamic State. It's worth pointing out, though, that one of the reasons why the Islamic State is currently gathering adherence - it's like a snowball rolling downhill - its military success and the momentum that that generates causes people to join the movement. Should that military success be broken, I think that the magnetic effect of the Islamic State would dissipate to some extent.

EMMA ALBERICI: What's the relationship between al-Qaeda and IS?

DAVID KILCULLEN: Horrible. They hate each other. And in fact, one of the issues is that when the war in Syria broke out, al-Qaeda, that is, Zawahiri, the head of al-Qaeda, designated Jabhat al-Nusra, which is a group that's fight fighting the Assad regime in Syria, as the kind of designated al-Qaeda organisation in Syria and directed Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the head of IS, to go back into Iraq and focus on Iraq and ISIS basically said, "No, we're not going to do that, we're going to continue to operate in Syria." Al-Qaeda sent a number of mediators to try to resolve that dispute and one of them was killed in the conflict. And Jabhat al-Nusra, the al-Qaeda group, has actually been fighting IS, like, with bullets on the ground in Syria over the past year or so in a number of clashes. So they're not only political enemies, they are active military opponents in Syria. And, you know, the view has been that Islamic State was even too extreme for al-Qaeda. I think that's not quite the right way to see it. Al-Qaeda is as brutal and as extreme as it ever has been, but it's a power struggle, it's a turf struggle between these two groups. I think al-Qaeda's future right now more heavily centres on Afghanistan and on what's about to happen as international forces leave the country in the next year. And the possibility of a similar collapse and loss of leverage in Afghanistan after we pull out that we've already seen in Iraq is probably the best hope for al-Qaeda right now that it could sort of bounce back after the international forces leave Afghanistan. And to some extent it's leaving the turf of the Middle East to IS right now because of their military success in Iraq.


http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2014/s4066750.htm

[Dresta]

the bolded is not true. it's extreme, maybe the most extreme of any groups with real significance, but it's not the most reactionary. demonstrating that would be a long digression though.

you should look at your own words. i'm curious what you believe they're reacting to / against.

regardless, i'm aware of the doctrine. you're right, its vision cannot be defined nationalistically. but the fact remains isis has been so successful and so consistently in the news because it has popular support in parts of the country and funding from other regional interests. that different people support it for different reasons is patently obvious. equally obvious is that for many people, a significant factor is nationalistic in character.

thus, it can and needs to be evaluating through a nationalistic lens. as well as an economic lens, as well as a cultural lens, etc etc etc.

you aren't doing that. you're consumed with the ideology and not plugged into the facts on the ground, which as always carry much more weight.
Look, firstly you do not know what reactionary means if you think that. They desire a return to 8th-9th century barbarity and imperialism, and that is about as reactionary as you get, thank you very much.

A 'nationalistic' lens is a meaningless concept in a region that is not divided along the lines of nationhood or ethnicity. There is no need for a 'nationalistic lens' and any attempt to analyse the situation as such is thoroughly nonsensical. Ideology is the driving force behind this behaviour, and if you cannot see that then you are simply blind to the facts and to world history. Religious and quasi-religious (e.g. Marxism, Nazism etc.) ideologies are needed to justify such barbaric behaviour - and it is the individuals who peddle such sophistries, and who purport to be capable of moulding societies to their own design, who routinely create some of the most barbarous conditions the modern world has ever seen time and time again. Fanatical ideological belief is what lies at the foundation of this kind of suffering, and it always has been. But you will of course ignore this because it does not fit with the traditional loving leftist political agenda that deems all human beings cuddly little teddies at heart, made wicked by the darned environment of exploitation from which they arose.

[RidonKs]

you've pretty much got me pegged. and i suppose we fundamentally disagree. no sense getting into a long dialogue about human nature on insidehoops.

the difference between us is i'm talking about current affairs. you're generalizing.

i made reference to a whole host of facts (that i can source for you if you're interested) that i believe are highly relevant to western foreign policy in the region which has now reached the extreme of airstrikes. that policy needs to be justified. it hasn't been.

all you can do is paint the entire region with a broad religious / sectarian brush and then point to your picture and say this is the way it is. you need to offer evidence to support your theory. this is serious business and lives are at stake in a highly unstable and very significant region of the world.

of course not everybody is a teddy bear. i don't believe that. there are many dangers in the world. but the most important thing WE can do isn't to denounce and decry and defame, no matter how legitimately we can justify our indignation. that's what i see primarily from western intellectuals who talk about this stuff.

we need to look at OUR policies and ensure they're pragmatic and morally justifiable. it's a rare case to find that they are often either of those. on the pragmatic side, there are threats to be neutralized. but support for rogue militant fundamentalist elements throughout the middle east and west asia isn't just senseless and morally unjustifiable policy, it has had the effect of exacerbating the threat. and the other day bill clinton came out and called obama's unwillingness to syrian rebels a failure.

and to answer the question you're about to beg, no, it isn't all our fault or anything of the sort. but the only effect we can have is on our policy. not theirs. and at the moment, "our" is defined for me by my canadian citizenship which is under crucial influence from the american government, leader of the free world and dominant in force and diplomacy internationally and with a bevy of state allies around the world sympathetic to its intentions, whatever they may be.

[senelcoolidge]

Can someone have enough balls and stand up to these people. Atomize them. Erase them from history. The world will be a better place without them. The regular people in the Middle East and all over the world will have less worries.

[RidonKs]

Can someone have enough balls and stand up to these people. Atomize them. Erase them from history. The world will be a better place without them. The regular people in the Middle East and all over the world will have less worries.
because they aren't all sitting in one ****ing giant stadium you idiot

[senelcoolidge]

because they aren't all sitting in one ****ing giant stadium you idiot

yes we all know that dummy. but it can be done if people cooperate. Why does the United States have to do everything most of the time. I like that France is taking some of these non-Muslim refugees. The U.S. should do the same rather than allowing so many illegal aliens from the southern border. It seems like our leaders who should be really smart defy logic in their actions...money talks.

[RidonKs]

yes we all know that dummy. but it can be done if people cooperate. Why does the United States have to do everything most of the time. I like that France is taking some of these non-Muslim refugees. The U.S. should do the same rather than allowing so many illegal aliens from the southern border. It seems like our leaders who should be really smart defy logic in their actions...money talks.
you're reducing an unbelievably complicated operation, importing human beings who aren't crazy suicidal jihadists, to "oh this country needs to accept more of them". that's silly, no? american immigration policy should be a barrier to prevent mexican immigration and open arms for peaceful muslims? no, that's a bad plan on top of the fact that it's completely impractical

[Godzuki]

i made reference to a whole host of facts (that i can source for you if you're interested) that i believe are highly relevant to western foreign policy in the region which has now reached the extreme of airstrikes. that policy needs to be justified. it hasn't been.

.


u should start being more explanatory with examples since you're always saying stuff like this. Like you can do this and that but not bothering, or just never being fully detailed, almost purposely cryptic.

Also you should try taking some blame, or spreading it around some, instead of putting it all entirely on America constantly. There are reasons why we go into these places, and a lot of that fault lies on your people, the people around them, and how there is always some issues we end up getting involved in because it affects us, or the security of neighbors/world.

I constantly see a few posters here always sympathetic to Iran like they aren't that bad, pretending to use their President as their leader, which again is not being fully honest/aware....or how its always the US's fault for all of the middle easts problems, acting like Islamic extremists don't affect anyone other than in their countries. They are rarely honest about the Palestinian vs Israeli issues only talking about the human shield losses without mentioning the Hamas aspect.

There is just so much disingenuous with many of you who constantly expect the rest of us to be sympathetic to the anti US side IMO. We're not perfect but we do try to help in many situations we don't really have to, which is more than i can say for the rest of the countries in this world. All of the demonization's of us are incredibly one sided ignorance in everything i've ever read from the posters here.

[Brizzly]

I was just reading up on the ISIS leader and found a month old reports that claims Abu Bakr was trained and educated by the Mossad and British intelligence.

I myself think this is a load of bullcrap, mostly because the sources comes from the Snowden files, which yet hasn't been released.

What do yall think about this?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/isis-leader-abu-bakr-al-baghdadi-trained-by-israeli-mossad-nsa-documents-reveal/5391593

http://www.infowars.com/nsa-doc-reveals-isis-leader-al-baghdadi-is-u-s-british-and-israeli-intelligence-asset/

[RidonKs]

u should start being more explanatory with examples since you're always saying stuff like this. Like you can do this and that but not bothering, or just never being fully detailed, almost purposely cryptic.

Also you should try taking some blame, or spreading it around some, instead of putting it all entirely on America constantly. There are reasons why we go into these places, and a lot of that fault lies on your people, the people around them, and how there is always some issues we end up getting involved in because it affects us, or the security of neighbors/world.

I constantly see a few posters here always sympathetic to Iran like they aren't that bad, pretending to use their President as their leader, which again is not being fully honest/aware....or how its always the US's fault for all of the middle easts problems, acting like Islamic extremists don't affect anyone other than in their countries. They are rarely honest about the Palestinian vs Israeli issues only talking about the human shield losses without mentioning the Hamas aspect.

There is just so much disingenuous with many of you who constantly expect the rest of us to be sympathetic to the anti US side IMO. We're not perfect but we do try to help in many situations we don't really have to, which is more than i can say for the rest of the countries in this world. All of the demonization's of us are incredibly one sided ignorance in everything i've ever read from the posters here.
i haven't just not been cryptic in this thread and others i've participated in, i've been completely explicit. as i've said before, if you want sources to back up any of my claims, you should feel free to ask. i'll provide them or search them out if need be.

i also haven't been shy to accept full responsibility for my actions, as any rationally thinking person should. my responsibility lies primarily with my citizenship with regard to this particular issue, and as a canadian living in a democracy, i'm very concerned with the current administration which has demonstrated a real nasty streak since it got into office and has pursued objectives i personally find unsettling.

and i also have somewhat of a responsibility to use my energies to act on my beliefs in whatever way i can. i probably don't commit enough of my energies to international affairs since i'm much more active locally, but i do my best. but i certainly ensure i'm properly informed before i decide on acting.

as an american, you have a responsibility for american policy. you do live in a free country with a vaguely democratic system. you need to act.

as for people who sympathize with american enemies... that shouldn't concern you. literally, it shouldn't. it may annoy you but so do mosquitoes. if you think people are disengenuously representing themselves as part of the counter culture and likes cheering against the authorities, **** them. they are as inauthentic as supporters of the gop. or maybe they're iranian emigrants. who knows.

that's not what i talk about in these threads. ever. i'm interested in the facts on the ground and how our powerful state governments that are nominally under democratic control should properly respond in the most pragmatic and sympathetic way. for peace, justice, and most of all, freedom.

[Patrick Chewing]

Terrorists giving Islam a bad name :facepalm

Hope they burn in hell

Islam gives Islam itself a bad name. This kind of radical ideology has been allowed to flourish under Islam rule for many years. If Islamic leaders across the globe did anything about it, we wouldn't have these kind of problems, at least in this large a scale.

[FatComputerNerd]

It isn't Islam itself. There are plenty of non-radical Muslims out there.

There are also plenty of radical Christians (the KKK, the Phelps family, etc), as well as radical right wing Jewish extremists (the JDL, JTF, and some of the ultra-orthodox in Israel who like to spit on non-Jews).

The problem is extremism, and rabid nationality bordering on xenophobia. Unfortunately the leadership in many of these middle-eastern nations happen to be religious fundamentalists and extremists.

[FatComputerNerd]

"The world is silent on genocide, rape in Syria, Iraq"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLNgseCsDYo

[FatComputerNerd]

Thousands of Iraqi refugees flee ISIS

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2014/08/13/pkg-watson-border-bridge-exodus.cnn.html

[Derka]

If the people WANT this...they should have it.

[Godzuki]

It isn't Islam itself. There are plenty of non-radical Muslims out there.

There are also plenty of radical Christians (the KKK, the Phelps family, etc), as well as radical right wing Jewish extremists (the JDL, JTF, and some of the ultra-orthodox in Israel who like to spit on non-Jews).

The problem is extremism, and rabid nationality bordering on xenophobia. Unfortunately the leadership in many of these middle-eastern nations happen to be religious fundamentalists and extremists.


there haven't been radical Chrisitans in a long fukking time...if anything few and far between. Meanwhile there are radical muslisms all over the fukking place committing atrocities that may be worse than Hitler. own up to that shit instead of using 100+~ years ago history to justify muslim extremism of today...which IS THE problem.

[FatComputerNerd]

there haven't been radical Chrisitans in a long fukking time...if anything few and far between. Meanwhile there are radical muslisms all over the fukking place committing atrocities that may be worse than Hitler. own up to that shit instead of using 100+~ years ago history to justify muslim extremism of today...which IS THE problem.

I can't disagree.

I just don't like generalizations. Obviously there are far more Muslim extremists today than there are Christian extremists.

I just meant to say that not all Muslims are like that. I have some Muslim and Arabic friends who are normal secular people, and don't even care that I'm ethnically Jewish.

[Godzuki]

I can't disagree.

I just don't like generalizations. Obviously there are far more Muslim extremists today than there are Christian extremists.

I just meant to say that not all Muslims are like that. I have some Muslim and Arabic friends who are normal secular people, and don't even care that I'm ethnically Jewish.




sorry if i'm being course, but i had some drinks after work and sort of in rant mode right now :cheers:

[RidonKs]

there haven't been radical Chrisitans in a long fukking time...if anything few and far between. Meanwhile there are radical muslisms all over the fukking place committing atrocities that may be worse than Hitler. own up to that shit instead of using 100+~ years ago history to justify muslim extremism of today...which IS THE problem.
NOBODY IS JUSTIFYING ANYTHING

just trying to explain it

[Patrick Chewing]

It isn't Islam itself. There are plenty of non-radical Muslims out there.

There are also plenty of radical Christians (the KKK, the Phelps family, etc), as well as radical right wing Jewish extremists (the JDL, JTF, and some of the ultra-orthodox in Israel who like to spit on non-Jews).

The problem is extremism, and rabid nationality bordering on xenophobia. Unfortunately the leadership in many of these middle-eastern nations happen to be religious fundamentalists and extremists.


The KKK and Christianity have nothing to do with one another. These Islamo-Nazi's are actually killing in their God's name.

[MavsSuperFan]

People are ridiculously overrating the threat of the islamic state. Them beating up the armies of syria and malik's iraq is like the heat winning in the east. The minute they destroy the shia holy shrines in Karbala Iran is going to **** them up.

Their 5 year plan is laughable. Taking India, turkey, Israel, Saudi arabia, parts of china? :lol That would be like me beating up a 5 year old and then threatening Jon Bones jones

They will probably do a 9/11 style attack on western countries, but they do not threaten our continuity

[PullupJay]

This is why US shouldn't have armed the rebels in Syria sorry but middle eastern countries need dictators like Assad and Saddam they look normal compared to the Islamic state.
I Agree with this statement 100 %

[NumberSix]

It isn't Islam itself. There are plenty of non-radical Muslims out there.

There are also plenty of radical Christians (the KKK, the Phelps family, etc), as well as radical right wing Jewish extremists (the JDL, JTF, and some of the ultra-orthodox in Israel who like to spit on non-Jews).

The problem is extremism, and rabid nationality bordering on xenophobia. Unfortunately the leadership in many of these middle-eastern nations happen to be religious fundamentalists and extremists.
What people don't understand is that what ISIS is doing is a key element of Islam. They're not just a bunch of people trying to build an empire (caliphate) who "happen" to be muslim. Imperialism is a key islamic belief. There is no such thing as a muslim who doesn't believe in Islamic imperialism. It's like a Christian who doesn't believe in repenting for sins. It's a central belief.

[NumberSix]

This is why US shouldn't have armed the rebels in Syria sorry but middle eastern countries need dictators like Assad and Saddam they look normal compared to the Islamic state.
Sometimes, the sheep need to be herded.

[RidonKs]

What people don't understand is that what ISIS is doing is a key element of Islam. They're not just a bunch of people trying to build an empire (caliphate) who "happen" to be muslim. Imperialism is a key islamic belief. There is no such thing as a muslim who doesn't believe in Islamic imperialism. It's like a Christian who doesn't believe in repenting for sins. It's a central belief.
and yet the same thing not only could have been said but WAS said to demonize overtly christian empires striving for regional dominance. and the justification, at that time, was the same as the justification isis uses to explain away its atrocities.

christian doctrine has not changed since that time, only interpretation of the texts. you can still find horrific quotes in the bible that were used to justify all kinds of crimes. yet much of the christian world is now peaceful. fancy that.

another important note; the most populated islamic country in the world, representing 200 million muslims (88% of the population) is indonesia, a significant american allies for years. and of course they didn't "grow up" there so to speak. they conquered it. when islam did have its few hundred imperialistic years in the sun.

one more just if you weren't already certain; the most extreme and fundamentalist country in the world is the most significant american ally in the middle east, saudi arabia. no conflict there between jihad and "democracy".

islam is as destructive or as peaceful as the people who practise it. it's malleable like almost anything else. you can use a hammer to build a house or to smash a skull in. i've met people who i expect could do both. and i've also met and know muslims who preach love and kindness, as well as ones who preach death and destruction.

[NumberSix]

and yet the same thing not only could have been said but WAS said to demonize overtly christian empires striving for regional dominance. and the justification, at that time, was the same as the justification isis uses to explain away its atrocities.

christian doctrine has not changed since that time, only interpretation of the texts. you can still find horrific quotes in the bible that were used to justify all kinds of crimes. yet much of the christian world is now peaceful. fancy that.

another important note; the most populated islamic country in the world, representing 200 million muslims (88% of the population) is indonesia, a significant american allies for years. and of course they didn't "grow up" there so to speak. they conquered it. when islam did have its few hundred imperialistic years in the sun.

one more just if you weren't already certain; the most extreme and fundamentalist country in the world is the most significant american ally in the middle east, saudi arabia. no conflict there between jihad and "democracy".

islam is as destructive or as peaceful as the people who practise it. it's malleable like almost anything else. you can use a hammer to build a house or to smash a skull in. i've met people who i expect could do both. and i've also met and know muslims who preach love and kindness, as well as ones who preach death and destruction.
Again with the false equivalence. :rolleyes:


Christian nations did have empires and Christianity was used as a reason, but there is no actual religious belief in Christianity of the having to be a Christian empire. It's not in the bible. You can 100% literal Christian without having an empire.

It's not the same for Islam. The REQUIREMENT of an Islamic empire is a key principle. It's not like Christianity where empire is just never mentioned. In order for a Muslim to NOT believe in Islamic empire, you have to specifically choose to ignore what is explicitly written in the quran as a REQUIREMENT.

[eliteballer]

This is why US shouldn't have armed the rebels in Syria sorry but middle eastern countries need dictators like Assad and Saddam they look normal compared to the Islamic state.


Uhh...the US DIDN'T arm them, and experts are saying NOT arming them is exactly what allowed ISIS to flourish.

[NumberSix]

Uhh...the US DIDN'T arm them, and experts are saying NOT arming them is exactly what allowed ISIS to flourish.
Syrian rebels = ISIS

[RidonKs]

Again with the false equivalence. :rolleyes:


Christian nations did have empires and Christianity was used as a reason, but there is no actual religious belief in Christianity of the having to be a Christian empire. It's not in the bible. You can 100% literal Christian without having an empire.

It's not the same for Islam. The REQUIREMENT of an Islamic empire is a key principle. It's not like Christianity where empire is just never mentioned. In order for a Muslim to NOT believe in Islamic empire, you have to specifically choose to ignore what is explicitly written in the quran as a REQUIREMENT.
no, the point is, it isn't false equivalence because what you're saying is flatly false. chrisian empires spread for hundreds of years under theocratic leadership. ever heard of the holy roman empire? it interpreted the sacred texts to justify imperialism. and it didn't take a particularly generous interpretation i should add. there is an unusual amount of violence in the old testament. it's rife with the worst crimes.

if it were a "requirement" then all muslims would adhere to it. they don't. in fact a majority of muslims in the world reject the idea of an islamic empire. because it's not a requirement. it's an interpretation.

i mean if i asked you to define "100% literal christian", what the hell would you say? what the hell could you say? such a thing doesn't exist. just a rift raft of varying interpretations fluctuating in popularity throughout the years.

not to say the 'scripture', whichever it might be, has no effect at all. reading rhetorical poetry describing genocide and atrocity isn't the best idea. but we should recognize the extent to which it influences attitudes by looking around the world and comparing different people from different backgrounds who happen to share religious affiliation.

[eliteballer]

Syrian rebels = ISIS

Nope. There are many groups among the syrian rebels and ISIS is ONE of them, in fact they have been fighting the others. If you're not going to bother doing the research then don't speak on the topic.

[NumberSix]

Nope. There are many groups among the syrian rebels and ISIS is ONE of them, in fact they have been fighting the others. If you're not going to bother doing the research then don't speak on the topic.
I didn't say ISIS was the only rebels. :hammerhead:

[NumberSix]

no, the point is, it isn't false equivalence because what you're saying is flatly false. chrisian empires spread for hundreds of years under theocratic leadership. ever heard of the holy roman empire? it interpreted the sacred texts to justify imperialism. and it didn't take a particularly generous interpretation i should add. there is an unusual amount of violence in the old testament. it's rife with the worst crimes.

if it were a "requirement" then all muslims would adhere to it. they don't. in fact a majority of muslims in the world reject the idea of an islamic empire. because it's not a requirement. it's an interpretation.
Made up stat.

i mean if i asked you to define "100% literal christian", what the hell would you say? what the hell could you say? such a thing doesn't exist. just a rift raft of varying interpretations fluctuating in popularity throughout the years.

not to say the 'scripture', whichever it might be, has no effect at all. reading rhetorical poetry describing genocide and atrocity isn't the best idea. but we should recognize the extent to which it influences attitudes by looking around the world and comparing different people from different backgrounds who happen to share religious affiliation.
It in no way violates Christian beliefs to NOT have an empire. Christians CHOSE to have an empire. There is no violation to their religion in choosing to NOT have one. It's never mentioned in the bible at all. It is specifically stated in the Quran that an empire is required.

Stop playing the "everything is exactly equal" game.

[RidonKs]

It in no way violates Christian beliefs to NOT have an empire. It's never mentioned at all. It is specifically stated in the Quran that an empire is required.
and most muslims either don't know or don't care

similarly, many christians right now today believe in a pending apocalypse that will send them to heaven. a crucial issue is actually that the chosen people (the jews) need to be in the holy land, which today you occasionally hear from the really extreme christian right. but they think doom will come to all. and they use their democratic vote to turn policy in that direction. they aren't having much success.

most importantly, you're pandering to a semantics argument. what's the difference between imperialism and mass murder and genocide and ethnic cleansing? not a whole hell of a lot. who cares.

[NumberSix]

and most muslims either don't know or don't care

similarly, many christians right now today believe in a pending apocalypse that will send them to heaven. a crucial issue is actually that the chosen people (the jews) need to be in the holy land, which today you occasionally hear from the really extreme christian right. but they think doom will come to all. and they use their democratic vote to turn policy in that direction. they aren't having much success.

most importantly, you're pandering to a semantics argument. what's the difference between imperialism and mass murder and genocide and ethnic cleansing? not a whole hell of a lot. who cares.
You're very ignorant.

66% of people in Muslim countries want a unified islamic caliphate. 58% of people in majority muslim countries believe Sharia should be the ONLY form of law. 62% of Canadian muslims want Sharia law in Canada. 57% of muslims in Ireland believe Ireland should become an Islamic state. 61% of muslims in the UK want sharia law and Islamic courts.

These people keep repeatedly telling you that they REALLY DO believe what their religion teaches. Why won't you believe them?

[RidonKs]

you can't just throw out numbers. you wanna back up your opinions, you need sources.

here's my minimally researched offering in the country i live which you happened to use as an example (http://www.macdonaldlaurier.ca/files/pdf/What-Do-Muslim-Canadians-Want-November-1-2011.pdf)

that's the macdonald laurier institute btw, described on wikipedia as a right-leaning think tank. which it is.


Feelings about Canada are an issue of basic importance. If Canadian Muslims were deeply radicalized, a sense of political alienation from Canada would emerge in both the survey and the focus groups. Little evidence of this surfaced, except perhaps when respondents were asked lightening-rod questions about international affairs or terrorism.

QUESTIONS

1. Thinking generally, would you agree or disagree with the following statement: “All governments would be better if they were ruled under the Caliphate"?

39% disagree strongly, 44% don't know

2. There’s been some discussion, especially in the last Ontario provincial election, about what the laws in our province and country should be with respect to religion. In your judgment, should Ontario laws…

22% believed no space should be made for sharia law, 47% believed it should be allowed to be used in select situations primarily family matters if all parties consent

3. Approval or Disapproval of Terrorist Organizations or Extremist Iran

(i'd like you to bear in mind that "terrorist organizations" and "extremist" are highly subjective when used in discourse. but the poll lists the typical parties accused of these things.)

the iranian dictatorship (20%) and the muslim brotherhood (24%), including its offshoots hamas (17%) and hezbollah (15%), topped the list of approval. al-qaeda earned a measly 3%. i hope i don't have to explain to you the obvious similarities between isis and al-qaeda, if only in doctrine.




this poll was taken in 2011 by a respected thinktank i tend to stay away from. it clearly demonstrates what you're saying is false. back up your 58% number if you want.

but the point is now all we're talking about is whether some people in developed countries, canada, england, ireland, feel about the issue. have you accepted the fact that the doctrine of islam doesn't have the profound effect of turning people into ravaging murderous lunatics? i mean c'mon man give up

[Godzuki]

Nope. There are many groups among the syrian rebels and ISIS is ONE of them, in fact they have been fighting the others. If you're not going to bother doing the research then don't speak on the topic.


you're both right but for all intents and purposes, arming them probably would have resulted in arming ISIS. Syrian rebels became ISIS when the more fundamentalist/radicals took it over. maybe that would not have happened if we supported them, who knows....but it still would've put arms in the hands of the radicals who were part of the Syrian rebel cause. i don't think the separation was very distinguishable even if they were split into groups, since they jumped or combined groups/factions as well.

i agree with the notion that leaders like Bashir, who maintained all along he was fighting extremism, probably should stay in power to keep the fundamentalists in check. its like how once Musharaf was out in Pakistan, and we supported his ouster after corruption charges, etc....then got on the Bhutto bandwagon, whose husband took over for her faction once she was assasinated, and then they become this worrisome fundamentalist led nation with nukes harboring Bin Laden secretly. it really feels like you give these rebelling factions support and they all want Islamic fundamentalist governments which are bigger problems than the cruel dictators.

[East_Stone_Ya]

Maliki has stepped down as Iraqi prime minister


(Reuters) - Nuri al-Maliki finally bowed to pressure within Iraq and beyond on Thursday and stepped down as prime minister, paving the way for a new coalition that world and regional powers hope can quash a Sunni Islamist insurgency that threatens Baghdad.

Maliki ended eight years of often divisive, sectarian rule and endorsed fellow Shi'ite Haider al-Abadi in a televised speech during which he stood next to his successor and spoke of the grave threat from Sunni Islamic State militants who have taken over large areas of northern Iraq.

"I announce before you today, to ease the movement of the political process and the formation of the new government, the withdrawal of my candidacy in favor of brother Dr. Haider al-Abadi," Maliki said.

Maliki's decision was likely to please Iraq's Sunni minority, which dominated Iraq under Saddam Hussein's iron rule but was sidelined by Maliki, a relative unknown when he came to power in 2006 with U.S. backing.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/15/us-iraq-security-usa-military-idUSKBN0GD1KS20140815

[East_Stone_Ya]

ISIS is getting closer to the capital



Seizing the capital, Baghdad, would be difficult because of the presence of special forces and thousands of Shi'ite militias who have slowed down the Islamic State elsewhere.

But a foothold just near the capital could make it easier for the IS to carry out suicide bombings, deepen sectarian tensions and destabilize Iraq.

On Thursday, Islamic State militants massed near the town of Qara Tappa, 120 km (75 miles) north of Baghdad, security sources and a local official said, in an apparent bid to broaden their front with Kurdish peshmerga fighters.

The movement around Qara Tappa suggests they are becoming more confident and seeking to grab more territory closer to the capital after stalling in that region.

"The Islamic State is massing its militants near Qara Tappa," said one of the security sources. "It seems they are going to broaden their front with the Kurdish fighters."

[MavsSuperFan]

Nope. There are many groups among the syrian rebels and ISIS is ONE of them, in fact they have been fighting the others. If you're not going to bother doing the research then don't speak on the topic.
Obviously ISIS is the dominant group among the rebels. Arming more moderate groups would likely end with ISIS taking the weapons away from them.

[East_Stone_Ya]

Before there were reports that Kurdish peshmerga might be the only force in Iraq to step up to ISIS. According to the VICE article here below it shows that they would actually face many problems fighting against ISIS.




The fall of Mosul on June 10 also meant a remarkable equipment upgrade for the Islamic State (then known as ISIS), as the Iraqi government’s roughly 30,000 soldiers abandoned their bases, leaving behind a massive cache of US-supplied armored vehicles and heavy weaponry. This hardware made its way to frontlines in Syria and elsewhere in Iraq, bolstering the Islamic State’s rapid annexation of the Mosul Dam and Sinjar.



Finally, when fighting in majority-Arab areas such as Nineveh and Diyala provinces, speaking Arabic is crucial for intelligence gathering and maintaining good ties with civilians. The fact that many young Kurdish peshmerga solders don’t, as Arabic education is no longer mandatory within the KRG, is also a weakness.




https://news.vice.com/article/why-the-kurdish-peshmerga-have-many-troubles-in-stopping-the-islamic-state

[RidonKs]

I was just reading up on the ISIS leader and found a month old reports that claims Abu Bakr was trained and educated by the Mossad and British intelligence.

I myself think this is a load of bullcrap, mostly because the sources comes from the Snowden files, which yet hasn't been released.

What do yall think about this?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/isis-leader-abu-bakr-al-baghdadi-trained-by-israeli-mossad-nsa-documents-reveal/5391593

http://www.infowars.com/nsa-doc-reveals-isis-leader-al-baghdadi-is-u-s-british-and-israeli-intelligence-asset/
i was looking around for this last night and all i could find was the same syndicated article on a variety of blogs and amateur sites. apparently it originated with a daily news outlet in the gulf but it isn't sourced and there's only a single quotation in that article. i would take it with a grain of salt until you see more evidence.

i've found that "global research" site pretty hit and miss btw. it compiles a lot of information but it's usually poorly sourced and very hyperbolic and rhetorical. worth checking out but always dig a little deeper.

[Nick Young]

Islam is not a religion that creates radical militants:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

This Abu Bakr guy is like Osama Bin Laden mixed with the Joker mixed with Bane. We all in trouble.

[RidonKs]

if i can recommend an author to this website, patrick cockburn who writes for the independent has done some of the best work on the syrian and iraqi crises for the past few years. he's very grounded and doesn't get carried away with silly argumentation. excellent reporter on the ground.

[Nick Young]

Now these Free Palestine protesters are gathering right across the street from my house. I don't care if they want to protest but why do they have to scream angrily on a megaphone! And they're yelling at everyone who's not taking their flyers they are passing out, been watching from my house for the past 5 mins.

Little kids holding "Stop the Israeli Genocide" signs.

And this is in London.

:facepalm

[Nick Young]

Good, some guy in a suit is talking to them and they've stopped yelling and seem happy :)

Did you guys hear that the UK Jewish film festival was banned by the theater that was hosting it because the theater curator didn't want to take sides?
http://www.theguardian.com/stage/2014/aug/09/tricycle-theatre-jewish-film-festival

Meanwhile they are happy to show the Persian film festival and the Chinese film festival and don't care about 'taking sides'.

Can't believe they are censoring Jewish art, and equating all Jews with the Israeli government.

And this shit is London in 2014:facepalm

Shit's gonna be real bad for me and my fellow chosen peeps in a few years.

[NumberSix]

Now these Free Palestine protesters are gathering right across the street from my house. I don't care if they want to protest but why do they have to scream angrily on a megaphone! And they're yelling at everyone who's not taking their flyers they are passing out, been watching from my house for the past 5 mins.

Little kids holding "Stop the Israeli Genocide" signs.

And this is in London.

:facepalm
And how many of these posters look like NATIVE Brits?

[secund2nun]

Violent backwards religion + US funding for both sides of every conflict= violent region= excuse for intervention/bombings/occupation/war=more money for US defense contractors= more foreign resources for US corporations to exploit (and to gouge consumers with the price)

[RidonKs]

Violent backwards religion + US funding for both sides of every conflict= violent region= excuse for intervention/bombings/occupation/war=more money for US defense contractors= more foreign resources for US corporations to exploit (and to gouge consumers with the price)
QFT

[Godzuki]

Violent backwards religion + US funding for both sides of every conflict= violent region= excuse for intervention/bombings/occupation/war=more money for US defense contractors= more foreign resources for US corporations to exploit (and to gouge consumers with the price)


this is so retarded its not even funny. especially when they're all independent of each other. if only we didn't spend billions in IRaq and Afghanistan....drained our economy, but people make links between Cheney having once worked at Haliburton so our Corporations must run us :facepalm

the stupidity of foreigners, the internet, and conspiracy theories :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[masonanddixon]

this is so retarded its not even funny. especially when they're all independent of each other. if only we didn't spend billions in IRaq and Afghanistan....drained our economy, but people make links between Cheney having once worked at Haliburton so our Corporations must run us :facepalm

the stupidity of foreigners, the internet, and conspiracy theories :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Nah he's right. This ISIS shit is big business for corporations and Wall Street

[dude77]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/15/jay-garner-occupation-iraq-no-longer-exists

opinions on this ? .. he's saying that there is no iraq now and it's done .. it's going to be permanently fragmented .. I guess the question now is will IS overtake the whole place or just be content with a chunk of the country ?

[East_Stone_Ya]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/15/jay-garner-occupation-iraq-no-longer-exists

opinions on this ? .. he's saying that there is no iraq now and it's done .. it's going to be permanently fragmented .. I guess the question now is will IS overtake the whole place or just be content with a chunk of the country ?



“The priority right now,” Garner said, “is the survival of Kurdistan.”

hmm...he thinks that Iraq is already lost. Ok, a retired army general have a opinion but that is not the case. Iran won't let a sunni islam state to develop near his borders.

[East_Stone_Ya]

convert or die method


They arrived in vehicles and they started their killing this afternoon," senior Kurdish official Hoshiyar Zebari told Reuters. "We believe it's because of their creed: convert or be killed."

A Yazidi lawmaker and another senior Kurdish official also said the killings had taken place and that the women of the village were kidnapped.

A push by Islamic State militants through northern Iraq to the border with the Kurdish region has alarmed the Baghdad government, drawn the first U.S. air strikes since the end of American occupation in 2001 and sent tens of thousands of Yazidis and Christians fleeing for their lives.

Yazidi parliamentarian Mahama Khalil said he had spoken to villagers who had survived the attack. They said the killings took place during a one-hour period.

The resident of a nearby village said an Islamic State fighter from the same area gave him details of the bloodshed.

"He told me that the Islamic State had spent five days trying to persuade villagers to convert to Islam and that a long lecture was delivered about the subject today," said the villager. "He then said the men were gathered and shot dead. The women and girls were probably taken to Tal Afar because that is where the foreign fighters are."


http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/16/us-iraq-security-yazidis-killings-idUSKBN0GG0AJ20140816

[RidonKs]

this is so retarded its not even funny. especially when they're all independent of each other. if only we didn't spend billions in IRaq and Afghanistan....drained our economy, but people make links between Cheney having once worked at Haliburton so our Corporations must run us :facepalm

the stupidity of foreigners, the internet, and conspiracy theories :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
it's not conspiracy and most of what he said has long historical precedent. perhaps instead of dismissing it you should for once actually think about its plausibility. it's right there in front of you.

[Godzuki]

Nah he's right. This ISIS shit is big business for corporations and Wall Street


they DO NOT run our country no matter how much people think they do. We do not go to war for our corporations period. Business certainly has influence in politics but so do the people who have much greater influence in electing officials by far.

Its ridiculous to me that people can think that when war is such a drain on everyone- our whole stock market(stock market goes down during times of world crisis), ballooning our deficit, etc. where it hurts us in more sectors than it helps us in the defense companies who are a very small piece of the whole. There is a reason why we were anxious to get out of Iraq and Afghanistan, and the troop kill factor is another huge issue with pretending that, which trumps everything. There are still all types of blown up people in Walter Reed and military officials and politicians have to visit them. People say its awful, and we have to care for them for the rest of their lives.

It is absolutely ridiculous to pretend we go to war for the Haliburton's, Boeing's, etc. just to make theirs. Its laffable. Keep connecting dots, it'll get you nowhere.

[tomSR.]

Now these Free Palestine protesters are gathering right across the street from my house. I don't care if they want to protest but why do they have to scream angrily on a megaphone! And they're yelling at everyone who's not taking their flyers they are passing out, been watching from my house for the past 5 mins.

Little kids holding "Stop the Israeli Genocide" signs.

And this is in London.

:facepalm

yes, thank you weak euro goverments and leaders for alowing all these assholes to infect the once lovely and peaceful europe..........

[9512]

Islamic fundamentalists are overt and very violent in their quest to islamize the world.

The Zionist/christian agenda doe....it's much more sophisticated. Hollywood social engineering. Fractional reserve lending practices. News media propaganda. Plutocratic control of the elite.

Makes me conclude that there are no nice guys or evil men. Very gray world.

[knickballer]

ISIS is all a part of the US geopolitical plan. Created and funded by the US, will expand large enough until they are a direct threat to Israel. Then the US will come in guns blazing and eliminate the ISIS threat while directly controlling half of the Middle East after.

US freaking supplied and supported these same guys in Syria to try and eliminate Assad..

[Godzuki]

ISIS is all a part of the US geopolitical plan. Created and funded by the US, will expand large enough until they are a direct threat to Israel. Then the US will come in guns blazing and eliminate the ISIS threat while directly controlling half of the Middle East after.

US freaking supplied and supported these same guys in Syria to try and eliminate Assad..


we gave them light weapons when they were more moderates, and we were reluctant to do even that because we knew they had terrorist elements to their cause. you should read up before twisting facts.

then later they became more extremist, as the extremist leaders took over. They were led by a moderate who was a Doctor who later stepped down because i believe they weren't getting enough support from us.

we initially saw Bashir as worse than the Syrian rebels, of which he was at one time. Now obviously a lot of people consider ISIS far worse but things change, while the revisionists are always using hindsight to hate on us.

[tomtucker]

Now these Free Palestine protesters are gathering right across the street from my house. I don't care if they want to protest but why do they have to scream angrily on a megaphone! And they're yelling at everyone who's not taking their flyers they are passing out, been watching from my house for the past 5 mins.

Little kids holding "Stop the Israeli Genocide" signs.

And this is in London.

:facepalm

be glad that they are angry............this is what they do when happy :
.
http://www.machovideo.com/13258/t-s-all-fun-and-games/

[SCdac]

The amount of people who buy into huge overarching conspiracy theories nowadays is alarming. There is a stark difference between US foreign policy, presence, or non-presence contributing to the rise or fall of regimes and organizations... and US being directly in control of and guiding said organizations after being removed from region... If you think the US and ISIS are one in the same - or that everything should at the end of the day be blamed on Israel - you're ****ing retarded. No offense.

[Raymone]

convert or die method

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/16/us-iraq-security-yazidis-killings-idUSKBN0GG0AJ20140816

I don't get why anyone would choose the die option.

Just cross your fingers behind your back and tell them "okay I've converted. I realize now that your sect of religion is awesome!" and leave.

[Rodmantheman]

U.S. Airstrikes on ISIS Underway trying to retake Mosul dam from ISIS. Kurdish and Iraqi forces will follow up the airstrikes with a ground assault. US are also considering bomb ISIS strong holds in Mosul.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYH4C_qmxGc

[zoom17]

U.S. Airstrikes on ISIS Underway trying to retake Mosul dam from ISIS. Kurdish and Iraqi forces will follow up the airstrikes with a ground assault. US are also considering bomb ISIS strong holds in Mosul.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYH4C_qmxGc

:applause:

[East_Stone_Ya]

I don't get why anyone would choose the die option.

Just cross your fingers behind your back and tell them "okay I've converted. I realize now that your sect of religion is awesome!" and leave.

well yeah except they won't leave and they see that everyone follows sharia law. For example in Raqqa the ISIS has patrols called Hisbah on the streets that will arrest people if something is not according to sharia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOaBNbdUbcA


they even have a tax for non-muslims

[Godzuki]

I don't get why anyone would choose the die option.

Just cross your fingers behind your back and tell them "okay I've converted. I realize now that your sect of religion is awesome!" and leave.


they've done that, and they've still beheaded them. altho i guess they're allowing some to do that and live...just know i read about a Christian who converted then they beheaded them after that.

[RidonKs]

this is so retarded its not even funny. especially when they're all independent of each other. if only we didn't spend billions in IRaq and Afghanistan....drained our economy, but people make links between Cheney having once worked at Haliburton so our Corporations must run us :facepalm

the stupidity of foreigners, the internet, and conspiracy theories :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
let's ask then : why exactly is iraq currently being bombed?

[East_Stone_Ya]

Kurdish militants train hundreds of Yazidis to fight Islamic State


They fled there this month to escape the Islamic State, who deem Yazidis "devil worshippers". Yazidis follow an ancient faith derived from Zoroastrianism.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/17/us-syria-crisis-yazidis-idUSKBN0GH0G220140817

[Godzuki]

this is why we'd wreck pretty much everyone with our tech

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2014/08/17/raw-video-us-airstrikes-iraq-isis.u-s-military.html

its basically video games at this point :pimp:

[senelcoolidge]

People need to understand Islam. It's different from other religions. It's not just a religion but it's really a social model. Study it. What you see today with all of this fighting and genocide is not new..this was Islam in it's early stages. It's kind of scary what is going on and the Western world is very ignorant to it. It's almost like digging it's own grave.

[East_Stone_Ya]

small progress was made yesterday


U.S. airstrikes helped Kurdish and Iraqi forces take control of Mosul Dam on Monday, fighting back ISIS militants who had seized the dam, President Obama told reporters.
The stakes were huge for the millions of Iraqis who live downstream from the dam, the largest in the country.
"If that dam was breached it could have proven catastrophic, with floods that would have threatened the lives of thousands of civilians and endangered our embassy compound in Baghdad," the President said.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/18/world/meast/iraq-mosul-dam/index.html?hpt=imi_c1

[Godzuki]

it'd be great to be a sniper there, or send a dozen sniper guys in with high tech rifles and support to cover them. i'd think they could just pick ISIS off real easy. was thinking this the other day with the dam situation.

video game bombing works too but those areas where they have innocent people horded up on trucks for slaughter, you'd think snipers could pick the bad guys off and they'd all be real paranoid about being in the open anywhere. hell half of them might quit, between that and the bombing. they couldn't do anything.

[dr.hee]

it'd be great to be a sniper there, or send a dozen sniper guys in with high tech rifles and support to cover them. i'd think they could just pick ISIS off real easy. was thinking this the other day with the dam situation.

video game bombing works too but those areas where they have innocent people horded up on trucks for slaughter, you'd think snipers could pick the bad guys off and they'd all be real paranoid about being in the open anywhere. hell half of them might quit, between that and the bombing. they couldn't do anything.

Yeah, sure :roll:

[Jailblazers7]

it'd be great to be a sniper there, or send a dozen sniper guys in with high tech rifles and support to cover them. i'd think they could just pick ISIS off real easy. was thinking this the other day with the dam situation.

video game bombing works too but those areas where they have innocent people horded up on trucks for slaughter, you'd think snipers could pick the bad guys off and they'd all be real paranoid about being in the open anywhere. hell half of them might quit, between that and the bombing. they couldn't do anything.

Sounds like a job for Mark Wahlberg.

[Godzuki]

Yeah, sure :roll:


we have snipers/rifles that can hit its target from a mile away. we could even do that shit at night.

people just randomly dropping out of the blue, or random bombings out of nowhere with no enemy to fight is morale breaking.

even with drones there is at least a target. but when mf'ers get blown up out of nowhere, head shot out of nowhere, thats real fear vs no enemy...i'd think completely wreck their psyche.

DC shooter put fear in a lot of people just doing what he did a handful of times.

[East_Stone_Ya]

we have snipers/rifles that can hit its target from a mile away. we could even do that shit at night.

people just randomly dropping out of the blue, or random bombings out of nowhere with no enemy to fight is morale breaking.

even with drones there is at least a target. but when mf'ers get blown up out of nowhere, head shot out of nowhere, thats real fear vs no enemy...i'd think completely wreck their psyche.

DC shooter put fear in a lot of people just doing what he did a handful of times.

but you are forgetting that majority of IS fighters are hardcore radicals, they don't fear death, they do whatever it takes to establish the caliphate. They are taught that death means going to heaven. Of course among the IS fighters there are some newly recruited fighters who might be shaken off by the aerial strikes but it won't put any fear into the radical ones.

[dunksby]

we have snipers/rifles that can hit its target from a mile away. we could even do that shit at night.

people just randomly dropping out of the blue, or random bombings out of nowhere with no enemy to fight is morale breaking.

even with drones there is at least a target. but when mf'ers get blown up out of nowhere, head shot out of nowhere, thats real fear vs no enemy...i'd think completely wreck their psyche.

DC shooter put fear in a lot of people just doing what he did a handful of times.
You are so clueless it's not even funny at this stage.

[Godzuki]

You are so clueless it's not even funny at this stage.


why does everyone here think they're smart when they're so unread with no explanations to back themselves up? :facepalm

lol just realized its dumsby.

The modern method of long-distance sniping (1.25-kilometre (0.8 mi) shots) requires intense training and practice. A sniper must have the ability to accurately estimate the various factors that influence a bullet's trajectory and point of impact, such as range to the target, wind direction, wind velocity, air density, elevation, and even the rotation of the Earth under the bullet of the sniper and target. Mistakes in estimation compound over distance and can cause a shot to only injure, or to miss completely.[1] Furthermore, as any given combination of firearm and ammunition will have an associated value, known as the circular error probable, denoting a circle whose boundary is expected to include the landing points of half of the rounds fired, beyond a given distance, whether even a perfectly-aimed shot lands will be dictated partially by chance.[2]

Devices such as laser rangefinders, handheld meteorological measuring equipment, handheld computers, and ballistic-prediction software can contribute to increased accuracy.

[SCdac]

ISIS supporters in Ferguson........ :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAyGkDvsNls#t=13

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvZGU1jIQAIZ6f7.jpg

[BlkMambaGOAT]

ISIS supporters in Ferguson........ :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAyGkDvsNls#t=13

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvZGU1jIQAIZ6f7.jpg
:biggums:

[zoom17]

ISIS supporters in Ferguson........ :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAyGkDvsNls#t=13

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvZGU1jIQAIZ6f7.jpg

:facepalm :biggums:

[East_Stone_Ya]

I am not even sure that the protester knows what ISIS means

[Patrick Chewing]

I am not even sure that the protester knows what ISIS means


I am not even sure that the protestor knows what 2 + 2 is.

[Patrick Chewing]

ISIS just beheaded an American journalist.

[dude77]

ISIS just beheaded an American journalist.


jesus christ .. the part where he's reading off the script as if he's reading an essay in front of a class, and reading it with some degree of enthusiasm(even if fake .. knowing he's about to be beheaded after he's done) is fkn chilling

[dude77]

nuke these fggts .. wipe them the fk out

[Patrick Chewing]

nuke these fggts .. wipe them the fk out


They've been killing each other and lopping heads off for thousands of years. Islam is a death cult.

[BlkMambaGOAT]

Annihilation. The only worthy punishment.

[Godzuki]

man we've been holding back too. can't imagine how bad we'd wreck them if we really tried hard.

[brandonislegend]

wow.

[KingBeasley08]

I'm getting sick of this too. Lets bomb the fck out of them

[Patrick Chewing]

I guess Obama didn't release enough Gitmo terrorist prisoners to save this guy.

[NumberSix]

They've been killing each other and lopping heads off for thousands of years. Islam is a death cult.
Moon worshipers.

[dunksby]

why does everyone here think they're smart when they're so unread with no explanations to back themselves up? :facepalm

lol just realized its dumsby.

The modern method of long-distance sniping (1.25-kilometre (0.8 mi) shots) requires intense training and practice. A sniper must have the ability to accurately estimate the various factors that influence a bullet's trajectory and point of impact, such as range to the target, wind direction, wind velocity, air density, elevation, and even the rotation of the Earth under the bullet of the sniper and target. Mistakes in estimation compound over distance and can cause a shot to only injure, or to miss completely.[1] Furthermore, as any given combination of firearm and ammunition will have an associated value, known as the circular error probable, denoting a circle whose boundary is expected to include the landing points of half of the rounds fired, beyond a given distance, whether even a perfectly-aimed shot lands will be dictated partially by chance.[2]

Devices such as laser rangefinders, handheld meteorological measuring equipment, handheld computers, and ballistic-prediction software can contribute to increased accuracy.
So you admit that you are clueless about warfare, what you quoted clearly makes my point.

[NumberSix]

America and its Western Puppets propped up these psychos in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Libya. Gave them free reign to go around murdering thousands of people in the same way they are doing now. Had the media tell us they were freedom fighters wishing to establish democracy in the Middle East. Gave millions of $$ in aid and weapons. And now all of a sudden the American Defence Department changes its tune. Why?

Anything to do with ISISs entry into the richest oil areas of Iraq.....Kurdistan? Nah no way. Its all about freedom. :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Libya were all secular/multicultural nations before America came in with its freedom. The true evil here is the United States. Needs to be wiped of the map for the sake of world peace.
Honestly, thank god for Vladimir Putin. Obama wanted to oust Assad and put these fcuking savages in charge. At least Putin had the sense to do what it takes to help out Assad.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

...F*ck.

Mount Sinjar reaching subzero temps at night and over 100 at day.

And they still survived. Kudos. Shame the other dudes didn't step up earlier.

To build off Ridonks threads. Gonna organize a table. Just started following this..

Economic Lens:
- Social welfare for the poor

Social Lens:
- Sizable portion of Iraqis pissed the f*ck off at being imprisoned by Malaki.. Enemy of my enemy is my friend mixed with Vengeance.


Religious Lens:
-

I wanna know the motive of the dudes in indonesia. Did not expect grassroots to start over there. Was actually planning on living there lol.

[dunksby]

Honestly, thank god for Vladimir Putin. Obama wanted to oust Assad and put these fcuking savages in charge. At least Putin had the sense to do what it takes to help out Assad.
Ironic how the Arab spring was all about removing secular governments and installing Islamic ones.

[Fawker]

USA against unwanted foreign policing that costs lives. Guess what, who else is doing it? we are all the world have. Al Queda gone. Saddam gone. Next is next. All terrorist groups must go. take my tax money.

[Nick Young]

Islam inspires peace and love for your fellow man.

And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)

Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.

As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help.

Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority.

They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks.

The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement

I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them


OOOO So thats why so many muslims are becoming terrorists and chopping peoples heads off. Because the Koran literally is telling people to do that. I understand now.

And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

What an accepting, loving and peaceful religion

And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction.


What beautiful words. What a beautiful and peace loving religion:bowdown: :bowdown:

[Dresta]

Ironic how the Arab spring was all about removing secular governments and installing Islamic ones.
With the exception of Tunisia i think, which was a social and political rather than a religious revolution. They may have elected the moderate Islamist party but they certainly never had the support of the majority of the population, and they have even less now than they did when they won the election. The problem was that you have a lot of uneducated people AND the election had something like 100 different parties, of which only the Islamists were properly organised, going to villages and farms etc. and promising people entitlements to win votes.

From what i have seen first hand Tunisians are not happy with the present state-of-affairs and it is a country which i think will certainly remain moderate. I still saw less women wearing the niqab in Tunisia than in London, for example.

[dunksby]

With the exception of Tunisia i think, which was a social and political rather than a religious revolution. They may have elected the moderate Islamist party but they certainly never had the support of the majority of the population, and they have even less now than they did when they won the election. The problem was that you have a lot of uneducated people AND the election had something like 100 different parties, of which only the Islamists were properly organised, going to villages and farms etc. and promising people entitlements to win votes.

From what i have seen first hand Tunisians are not happy with the present state-of-affairs and it is a country which i think will certainly remain moderate. I still saw less women wearing the niqab in Tunisia than in London, for example.
And Egypt can thank their powerful military for ridding them of the Brotherhood.

[Godzuki]

Ironic how the Arab spring was all about removing secular governments and installing Islamic ones.


didn't Iran have a uprising, against their fundamentalist state? :facepalm

[Godzuki]

So you admit that you are clueless about warfare, what you quoted clearly makes my point.


i love how u never post facts to back yourself up, or anything :oldlol:

make a argument fgt.

thats from Wiki, argue with them....and it didn't even bring up night vision apparatus either.

also some of the longest recorded distances of sniper shots are from i believe more than a mile 1/2 away~



Confirmed by GPS, Craig Harrison (UK) of the UK’s Household Cavalry killed two Taliban insurgents from a distance of 2,474 m/2.47 km (8,120 ft, or 1.54 miles) in November 2009. It took the 8.59 mm rounds almost three seconds to hit their targets, which were 914 m (3,000 ft) beyond the L115A3 sniper rifle’s recommended range. A third shot took out the insurgent’s machine gun. The rifle used was by Accuracy International.


u talk so sure of yourself and yet so dumsby.

[poido123]

Muslims have no intention of adopting your nationalistic or cultural ways.

They will dig their claws into your system, use your own laws against you, then establish Muslims in positions of power so that they can establish sharia law in your country and won't be a thing you can do about it.

Americans. Get the vermin out of your country, they have no interest in preserving your democracy or patriotism.

Oh, they will try and out breed you too. Just what you want :facepalm:

As for the peaceful Muslims, the ones who do minimal condemnation and action against these radicals, will only join them once the shit hits the fan...

[East_Stone_Ya]

French President Francois Hollande called on Wednesday for an international conference to discuss ways of tackling Islamic State insurgents who have seized control of territory in Iraq and Syria.

Hollande did not say when such a meeting could be held or who would be invited but said a global strategy was needed to combat the insurgents, according to remarks published in Le Monde newspaper.

"We can no longer keep to the traditional debate of intervention or non-intervention," Hollande told Le Monde.

"We have to come up with a global strategy to fight this group, which is structured, has significant financing, very sophisticated weapons and threatens countries like Iraq, Syria and Lebanon," he said.

The Islamic State has captured wide swathes of northern Iraq since June, executing non-Sunni Muslim captives and minorities, displacing tens of thousands of people and drawing the first U.S. air strikes in the region since Washington withdrew troops in 2011.

France, which has close ties with Iraq's Kurdish regional government, started delivering weapons to Kurdish fighters on Friday to help stop an advance by Islamic State into the Kurdish region.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/20/us-iraq-security-france-idUSKBN0GK0Q820140820

oh the irony, France was one of the first countries to supply rebels in Syria with weapons.

[Patrick Chewing]

Muslims have no intention of adopting your nationalistic or cultural ways.

They will dig their claws into your system, use your own laws against you, then establish Muslims in positions of power so that they can establish sharia law in your country and won't be a thing you can do about it.

Americans. Get the vermin out of your country, they have no interest in preserving your democracy or patriotism.

Oh, they will try and out breed you too. Just what you want :facepalm:

As for the peaceful Muslims, the ones who do minimal condemnation and action against these radicals, will only join them once the shit hits the fan...

This is exactly my same sentiment and what may be happening right now as we speak.


The quiet Muslims already here are the ones to watch out for just for that reason. They are cowards who technically have a leg up on us non-Muslims due to their faith.


Everyone should watch the documentary, The Project. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcPIaEVrS8U

They are already here in America.

[Trollsmasher]

Of course they are in America too. They are only in the 1st phase of their plan, because there is not enough of them so far. Don't get yourself fooled by claiming that your muslims are better and moderate. Most of them will follow their religious leaders once the 2nd phase kicks in.

0-2% - stay quiet, breed and bring in more, pretend to be peaceful
2-8% - become more aggressive, start demanding privileges, take advantage of the system, get people into positions
8% and on - France, Sweden...

[StephHamann]

Of course they are in America too. They are only in the 1st phase of their plan, because there is not enough of them so far. Don't get yourself fooled by claiming that your muslims are better and moderate. Most of them will follow their religious leaders once the 2nd phase kicks in.

0-2% - stay quiet, breed and bring in more, pretend to be peaceful
2-8% - become more aggressive, start demanding privileges, take advantage of the system, get people into positions
8% and on - France, Sweden...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M27spDwM7zY

[Patrick Chewing]

Mods took the vid down which is pathetic. That's censorship, but I'll live. Everyone needs to see it and you can see it on LiveLeak.

[9erempiree]

Such peaceful sons of bitches.

[Rodmantheman]

Aggressive people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP6U6Hhy_2M

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Yesss uve figured out the masterplan muahaha oh noez we r backfire.

updates on responses to the message forcd by foley.

[Rodmantheman]

US rescue mission in Syria to save Foley failed Barack Obama sent special operations troops to Syria this summer on a secret mission to rescue American hostages, including journalist James Foley, held by Islamic State group extremists, but they did not find them.


http://news.yahoo.com/officials-us-rescue-mission-syria-failed-223712306.html

[Patrick Chewing]

Aggressive people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP6U6Hhy_2M


That's sickening to watch. That Muslim pig probably preaches peace and prosperity, and then there he goes and commits a felony in public.

Praise to the EDL for putting up with this Islamic filth.

[senelcoolidge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xCdehrV96U

some interesting tidbits on the religion of peace. there has to be a point when people will either eradicate this religion or be eradicated by it.

[East_Stone_Ya]

there are unconfirmed reports floating around in the internet how Obama released Al-Baghdadi in 2009.


Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi or Abu Dua was once held by the US in Camp Bucca Iraq.But the Obama administration shut down the Bucca prison camp and released its prisoners, including Abu Dua in 2009.


http://1-ps.googleusercontent.com/h/www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/xabu-dua.jpg.pagespeed.ic.G8omNqnxpX.jpg

[poido123]

there are unconfirmed reports floating around in the internet how Obama released Al-Baghdadi in 2009.




http://1-ps.googleusercontent.com/h/www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/xabu-dua.jpg.pagespeed.ic.G8omNqnxpX.jpg


$10 million reward? Anyone want to help me get this guy? :oldlol:

[fiddy]

$10 million reward? Anyone want to help me get this guy? :oldlol:
good luck protecting your neck

[poido123]

good luck protecting your neck


I never needed one anyways :oldlol:

[East_Stone_Ya]

$10 million reward? Anyone want to help me get this guy? :oldlol:

the reward has been doubled by now for sure

[poido123]

the reward has been doubled by now for sure


Pretty sure you can write your own cheque if you were able to bring him to Obama alive :pimp:

[East_Stone_Ya]

Pretty sure you can write your own cheque if you were able to bring him to Obama alive :pimp:

would need a ''small'' army to accomplish something like that

[poido123]

would need a ''small'' army to accomplish something like that

The only way you could get to a guy like that is to have a small group pretend that they are of the cause and when the timing is right and gained trust of the group, seize him in his sleep and take him away swiftly..:banana:

[East_Stone_Ya]

latest conspiracy theory regarding Al-Baghdadi is that he is actually a Mossad agent.

http://www.abna.ir/upload/image/2014/08/07/2_53e378f80e3b8.jpg


Publish Site American Veterans Today, a report in which he said that the leader of the "Daesh" Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, is not only an agent of Mossad, the Israeli named "Simon Elliott" or "Elliott Shimon," was trained to head the organization Daesh in order to spread chaos in the Arab countries neighboring Israel.

The report, published by the site, the "Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi," was born to Jewish parents and picked up Israeli intelligence services, to get highly trained to spy, and then been planted in one of the Arab countries to assess the organization "Daesh", which was published chaos throughout the Arab world and the demolition of states, which increases the chances of Israel's control over the Middle East region.



With photo support, an Iranian media discovers the true identity of the Emir Daesh, a trained Zionist agent.

Iranian intelligence discovered the true and full identity of the Emir Daesh, which is known under the name Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi; his real name is Elliot Shimon. Its role in Mossad secret agent in the Zionist espionage. His false name: Ibrahim ibn Awad ibn Ibrahim Al Al Badri Arradoui Hoseini.

The plan: get into the military and civilian heart of the countries that are declared as a threat to Israel in order to destroy to facilitate thereafter, the takeover by the Zionist state on the entire area of the Middle East in order to establish Greater Israel.

http://www.abna.ir/english/service/important/archive/2014/08/07/629591/story.html

[East_Stone_Ya]

The only way you could get to a guy like that is to have a small group pretend that they are of the cause and when the timing is right and gained trust of the group, seize him in his sleep and take him away swiftly..:banana:

would be extremely hard to get close to him, since he is considered as somewhat of a spiritual leader by his followers and the inner circle is probably surrounded by paranoid extremists who are well aware that the western countries are after him.

[poido123]

would be extremely hard to get close to him, since he is considered as somewhat of a spiritual leader by his followers and the inner circle is probably surrounded by paranoid extremists who are well aware that the western countries are after him.


You need a couple of undercover spies to go in and disclose his location to the second.

Once identified, radio in the coordinates and flatten the guy with an airstrike..

That makes the most sense to me.

Scrap my other idea, that is virtually impossible to do :oldlol:

[East_Stone_Ya]

You need a couple of undercover spies to go in and disclose his location to the second.

Once identified, radio in the coordinates and flatten the guy with an airstrike..

That makes the most sense to me.

Scrap my other idea, that is virtually impossible to do :oldlol:


to get him alive yes

[poido123]

to get him alive yes


After all the atrocities that have occurred over the last few days, months, it would be nice to wake up to;

1. Americans have captured the head of ISIS alive.

2. Americans have ramped up their airstrikes and unintentionally kill the leader of ISIS.

3. Embarrassed ISIS members walk in a chain gang as the UK secret mission captures significant members of the group who defected from the UK to join ISIS.

[East_Stone_Ya]

After all the atrocities that have occurred over the last few days, months, it would be nice to wake up to;

1. Americans have captured the head of ISIS alive.

2. Americans have ramped up their airstrikes and unintentionally kill the leader of ISIS.

3. Embarrassed ISIS members walk in a chain gang as the UK secret mission captures significant members of the group who defected from the UK to join ISIS.

the ISIS would get more attention from U.S and his allies if there wasn't a tense situation in Ukraine and Gaza.

[MMM]

would need a ''small'' army to accomplish something like that

So if I'm one of the rebel groups in The Congo. Why don't I sign up for this??? Killing ISIS over Congolese. Heck African militants are missing out on this opportunity it seems.

[East_Stone_Ya]

So if I'm one of the rebel groups in The Congo. Why don't I sign up for this??? Killing ISIS over Congolese. Heck African militants are missing out on this opportunity it seems.

maybe because the militant groups in Africa are not fighting for the money?:confusedshrug:

[senelcoolidge]

The United Kingdom, France, U.S. and Russia abolished Prussia at the end of the second World War. So something like Nazi Germany would never happen again. They neutered Germany. The same needs to happen to the Islamic States. It's almost like history is repeating itself. You have people that say leave them alone..don't get involved and others that think we should intervene and destroy the problem before it festers. Well if you leave it alone it will strike you. Just like 9/11. Like Pearl Harbor. It will come to your shores. It will destroy you or destroy the lives of the generations ahead. These people don't think like us. There is no such thing as a truce. There is no such thing as defeat. No peace.

[dunksby]

You need a couple of undercover spies to go in and disclose his location to the second.

Once identified, radio in the coordinates and flatten the guy with an airstrike..

That makes the most sense to me.

Scrap my other idea, that is virtually impossible to do :oldlol:
Nah, you just need a couple of snipers to take him out, you know since it's so easy.

[dunksby]

latest conspiracy theory regarding Al-Baghdadi is that he is actually a Mossad agent.

http://www.abna.ir/upload/image/2014/08/07/2_53e378f80e3b8.jpg






http://www.abna.ir/english/service/important/archive/2014/08/07/629591/story.html
Iranian media would have you believe everything is a Zionist conspiracy :oldlol:

[Godzuki]

Nah, you just need a couple of snipers to take him out, you know since it's so easy.

Are u Rufus's alt? because i'd swear you do the same exact thing as him, where you hide your ignorance being purposely vague on everything without explanations ever....just this air of arrogance like u know something :facepalm

and u do it over and over and over again, continuing vagueness, no explanations while trying to mock someone who made u look stupid when u pretended he didn't know what he was talking about.

I always knew Rufus still hung around here, just didn't know on what handle :oldlol:

also it all comes together now since u'd always take these cheap shots at me after i ran Rufus off the board lol.

[tomtucker]

The United Kingdom, France, U.S. and Russia abolished Prussia at the end of the second World War. So something like Nazi Germany would never happen again. They neutered Germany. The same needs to happen to the Islamic States. It's almost like history is repeating itself. You have people that say leave them alone..don't get involved and others that think we should intervene and destroy the problem before it festers. Well if you leave it alone it will strike you. Just like 9/11. Like Pearl Harbor. It will come to your shores. It will destroy you or destroy the lives of the generations ahead. These people don't think like us. There is no such thing as a truce. There is no such thing as defeat. No peace.

right, these sick fukks are alot worse then the germans in ww2............they will never give up like the germans did in the end...........these bastards are just inbred retarded scum

[IcanzIIravor]

The United Kingdom, France, U.S. and Russia abolished Prussia at the end of the second World War. So something like Nazi Germany would never happen again. They neutered Germany. The same needs to happen to the Islamic States. It's almost like history is repeating itself. You have people that say leave them alone..don't get involved and others that think we should intervene and destroy the problem before it festers. Well if you leave it alone it will strike you. Just like 9/11. Like Pearl Harbor. It will come to your shores. It will destroy you or destroy the lives of the generations ahead. These people don't think like us. There is no such thing as a truce. There is no such thing as defeat. No peace.

Are you advocating genocide of more than 1 billion people?

[East_Stone_Ya]

Shi'ite militias open fire in Iraqi mosque, killing 30 Sunnis

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/22/us-iraq-security-idUSKBN0GM0L620140822

c'mon this type of news is good for ISIS, because they can convince the sunni people in the north to join their cause.

[East_Stone_Ya]

And it didn't long for the sunni militants to retaliate :(


Two suicide bombers in Iraq killed at least 17 people in apparent revenge attacks after a major assault on a Sunni mosque heightened sectarian tensions.

In Baghdad, a bomber rammed a vehicle into an intelligence headquarters on Saturday, killing at least eight people, police and medical sources said. Near Tikrit, a suicide bomber driving a military Humvee packed with explosives attacked a gathering of soldiers and Shi'ite militias on Friday night, killing nine.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/23/us-iraq-security-idUSKBN0GM0L620140823

[East_Stone_Ya]

[QUOTE]Elite British and US special forces troops are forming a hunter killer unit called Task Force Black

[East_Stone_Ya]

So in a way U.S and Iran are collaborating in Iraq


(Reuters) - Iran has supplied weapons and ammunition to Iraqi Kurdish forces, Kurdistan President Massoud Barzani said Tuesday at a joint press conference with Iranian foreign minister Mohammad Javad Zarif in Arbil, capital of Iraq's Kurdish region.

The direct arming of Kurdish forces is a contentious issue, because some Iraqi politicians suspect Kurdish leaders have aspirations to break away from the central government completely. The move could also be seen by some as a prelude to Iran's taking a more direct role in broader Iraqi conflict.

"We asked for weapons and Iran was the first country to provide us with weapons and ammunition," Barzani said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/26/us-iraq-security-kurds-idUSKBN0GQ11P20140826

[Rodmantheman]

They come in all shapes and sizes.

http://i.gyazo.com/348d6476afff1af4fad2ac67ae688c69.png

[wakencdukest]

Are you advocating genocide of more than 1 billion people?




It's probably only a half a billion if they just kill the men and boys. The women won't come back for revenge. :cheers:

[East_Stone_Ya]

I'll bet that the midget is the most sadistic out of them and personally supervises the beheadings and executions

[Nick Young]

Huge terror alert in London tomorrow. My friend who works in the metropolitan police told me that all officers in the force are being called in from 4AM monday morning and patrols will be beefed up. The attack is expected to be on the tube somewhere in West London.

This is based on the fact that 600 people in the UK went to fight with ISIS in Syria and Iraq and apparently 300 of them are back in the UK now.:facepalm

[zoom17]

Huge terror alert in London tomorrow. My friend who works in the metropolitan police told me that all officers in the force are being called in from 4AM monday morning and patrols will be beefed up. The attack is expected to be on the tube somewhere in West London.

This is based on the fact that 600 people in the UK went to fight with ISIS in Syria and Iraq and apparently 300 of them are back in the UK now.:facepalm

false flag bro

[Nick Young]

false flag bro
u sure? whered u hear?

[zoom17]

u sure? whered u hear?

It's not really hard to explain ISIS is not capable of attacking Europe Countries well not yet. They seem more focused in Syria and Iraq. If a attack does happen than it would be suspicious:confusedshrug:

[Nick Young]

It's not really hard to explain ISIS is not capable of attacking Europe Countries well not yet. They seem more focused in Syria and Iraq. If a attack does happen than it would be suspicious:confusedshrug:
David Cameron himself has warned of a potential terrorist attack in the next few days in public speeches, and the terror alert level is the highest its been in 3 years.

The cops are on high alert tomorrow all over the city.

No ISIS cannot coordinate a full proper attack like they're doing in Iraq, but there is nothing stopping the 300 ISIS members recently returned from Iraq and Syria from bombing public transport, and for whatever reason, the UK government believes an attack like that is coming soon.

[East_Stone_Ya]

David Cameron himself has warned of a potential terrorist attack in the next few days in public speeches, and the terror alert level is the highest its been in 3 years.

The cops are on high alert tomorrow all over the city.

No ISIS cannot coordinate a full proper attack like they're doing in Iraq, but there is nothing stopping the 300 ISIS members recently returned from Iraq and Syria from bombing public transport, and for whatever reason, the UK government believes an attack like that is coming soon.

I guess France should be more worried

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2014/images/08/29/jihadi02_v2.jpg

http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2014/09/syria-foreign-jihadis/?hpt=hp_c2

[RidonKs]

if the west was serious about wanting to stop isis, it would use its influence in the region, which is primarily restricted to its key allies; saudi arabia, israel, turkey, egypt. jordan and the rest of north africa to less extent.

of course it will not take that course for reasons i shouldn't have to explain. this is where the is/ought distinction enters the picture.

[East_Stone_Ya]

if the west was serious about wanting to stop isis, it would use its influence in the region, which is primarily restricted to its key allies; saudi arabia, israel, turkey, egypt. jordan and the rest of north africa to less extent.

of course it will not take that course for reasons i shouldn't have to explain. this is where the is/ought distinction enters the picture.

the key question is to whom is the ISIS useful?


here below is an article I recently stumbled on



Anyone that realizes those who make use of ISIS's existence in the region becomes dumbstruck. For example, as his last political move, Obama wanted to dethrone Nouri al-Maliki to maintain Iraq's territorial integrity (and did so successfully). However, it was impossible to convince the American people to interfere militarily into the internal affairs of Iraq yet again. This time, however, ISIS came to Obama's assistance. The number of Americans, who supported the removal of ISIS who suddenly started to advance upon the Yazidis and Christians, has grown rapidly in a week. This, of course, opened some doors for Obama. After the U.S. launched air operations against ISIS, both the Iraqi army and peshmerga troops gained a confidence boost. Meanwhile, al-Maliki was made to resign from office in a more quick and uneventful way than expected.

The removal of al-Maliki is also for the good of the Shiites, who disfavored him but did not dare to send him in fear of an internal conflict, and of the Sunnis who were oppressed during his tenure. Moreover, İlhami Işık, who is renowned for his analyses on the Kurdish movement, stated in an article published in Hurhaber that, "ISIS is marching towards Irbil instead of Baghdad, and the Baghdad administration falls. When al-Maliki decided to step down, the same ISIS, diverted its course to Damascus. Do you see how strange the situation is?" According to what Işık suggests, ISIS refocused on the Syrian conflict, and this points to the possibility that the West will soon interfere in Syria once again.

http://www.dailysabah.com/columns/hasmet-babaoglu/2014/08/22/who-benefits-from-isiss-existence-in-the-middle-east

[RidonKs]

good work ESY keep it up man i'll get back to you on that later, haven't been keeping tabs on the situation there the past week like i was the past few months

[East_Stone_Ya]

The Sunni-Shia divide

http://anneinpt.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/21b64-mideast51.gif

[Godzuki]

Huge terror alert in London tomorrow. My friend who works in the metropolitan police told me that all officers in the force are being called in from 4AM monday morning and patrols will be beefed up. The attack is expected to be on the tube somewhere in West London.

This is based on the fact that 600 people in the UK went to fight with ISIS in Syria and Iraq and apparently 300 of them are back in the UK now.:facepalm


themn poosies rolled as soon as they saw us ready to carpet bomb the shit out of them. how are they even allowed back in any countries if they're known ISIS fighters? :facepalm

i fukking knew we should've just wrecked all of them, not just their leadership. Obama and his people are military idiots. now we'll have to weed them out and get dirt on them back home. stupid mf'ers.

[senelcoolidge]

These people are actively recruiting. Just a few weeks back while I was working we were driving through one of the poorer/ghetto neighborhood and there they were. A muslim guy with the clothes and the long beard was out there looking for people. The car he was driving said on the side something along the lines of "learn about Islam". It was odd, it was the first time I've seen them recruit like that.

[zoom17]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/02/are-american-troops-already-fighting-on-the-front-lines-in-iraq.html

Interesting article not confirmed but eyewitness accounts from Kurdish officials say otherwise. Obama also ordered 350 more troops in Iraq:confusedshrug:

[Nowitness]

themn poosies rolled as soon as they saw us ready to carpet bomb the shit out of them. how are they even allowed back in any countries if they're known ISIS fighters? :facepalm

i fukking knew we should've just wrecked all of them, not just their leadership. Obama and his people are military idiots. now we'll have to weed them out and get dirt on them back home. stupid mf'ers.

I'm pretty sure it is a hoax.

[Godzuki]

I'm pretty sure it is a hoax.


i don' t even care if it is or not. all i'm saying is those ISIS mf'ers need to all get blown up before they have a chance to go back 'home', and use home laws to their advantage. at least now they're fair game...but when they go back home anon again the effort to kill them mf'ers becomes 10 times as hard.

Obama is such a politically correct, weak, play by the rules Prez its like the worst timing to have him making decisions now. fukk that fgt, regret voting for that mf'er on a lot of levels, if not for him being the lesser of all evils of stupid idealistic mf'ers.

[Nowitness]

i don' t even care if it is or not. all i'm saying is those ISIS mf'ers need to all get blown up before they have a chance to go back 'home', and use home laws to their advantage. at least now they're fair game...but when they go back home anon again the effort to kill them mf'ers becomes 10 times as hard.

Obama is such a politically correct, weak, play by the rules Prez its like the worst timing to have him making decisions now. fukk that fgt, regret voting for that mf'er on a lot of levels, if not for him being the lesser of all evils of stupid idealistic mf'ers.

I do agree. The phuckboys who go over there from here (UK) should have their rights as a citizen stripped if they are known fighters in a Holy War. But the threat of Islam impacting over the UK is incredibly low, I despise religion but I can give followers credit. Most Muslims don't agree with the fundamentalism, on top of that the Christians who really are just racists are willing to fight the extremists so we're safe for now.

[East_Stone_Ya]

These people are actively recruiting. Just a few weeks back while I was working we were driving through one of the poorer/ghetto neighborhood and there they were. A muslim guy with the clothes and the long beard was out there looking for people. The car he was driving said on the side something along the lines of "learn about Islam". It was odd, it was the first time I've seen them recruit like that.


Here Are the Psychological Reasons Why an American Might Join ISIS

[QUOTE]So read the Twitter bio of Douglas McAuthur McCain

[Dresta]

The psychological motivation is bleedin obvious: it offers an escape from the mundane and pointless existence these idiots live over here, and instead provides a grand cause to fight for, one where you are on the side of right, but which also allows you to torture, maim and kill and feel righteous about it - an attractive proposition for alienated youths. Being part of said cause provides them with that feeling of collective identity that they were so clearly lacking at home. So at its essence it is just another means of feeding human vanity.

This is an extremely powerful motivating force for those dense enough to buy into it.

[tomtucker]

nsfw

http://vk.com/video266846328_169742603
.
only the short version of the new beheading is avalible

damm bastards

[Nick Young]

What would happen if the hostages say they want to convert to Islam and learn everything about the religion and become good muslims-wouldn't ISIS want that and not behead people?

[East_Stone_Ya]

What would happen if the hostages say they want to convert to Islam and learn everything about the religion and become good muslims-wouldn't ISIS want that and not behead people?

I guess they would still get the same "treatment'' as Iraqi or Kurdish soldiers

[East_Stone_Ya]

ISIS plans

http://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1397299/isis.png


Worringly, the Balkan states would fall under "Orobpa" and Portugal and Spain would fall under "Andalus", according to this expansionist vision.

In the ten-state solution, Kurdistan, Iraq and Syria (Sham) would be the primary fixtures of the caliphate, with Lebanon included in Sham.

Further secular states that would fall under IS's control include Turkey (Anatolia) as well as the Commonwealth of Independent States (Gogaz), which include Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan.

http://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1397301/isis-islamic-state.png?w=720&h=437&l=50&t=40


"Khorasan" would include Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and potentially Indonesia, while Hijaz would include the Gulf States and Yemen would stand on its own.

"Qinana" would see Egypt, Sudan and Somalia in the caliphate, while the other states of North Africa - Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco and Mauritania - would fall under "Maghreb".



An Afghan militant commander, named as "Mirwais", said if IS proved to be a true caliphate, his forces would pledge allegiance to the group.

"We know Daish [Arabic term for Isis] and we have links with some Daish members. We are waiting to see if they meet the requirements for an Islamic caliphate," he said.

"If we find they do, we are sure that our leadership will announce their allegiance to them. They are great mujahideen. We pray for them and if we don't see a problem in the way they operate, we will join them."


http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/isis-master-plan-revealed-islamic-caliphate-will-rule-spain-china-balkans-1463782

[zoom17]

ISIS leader

[East_Stone_Ya]

[QUOTE=zoom17]ISIS leader

[East_Stone_Ya]

Photos of First Chinese Isis Militant


http://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1397346/chinese-isis.jpg?w=720&h=428&l=50&t=40

http://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1397351/isis.jpg




"These Chinese nationals are responding to the extreme Muslims' call to join the jihad of Isis and are seeking to gather combat experience," he said.

Last year, a Chinese man known as Bo Wang posted a YouTube video claiming that he had joined Sunni Islamist militants in Syria, believed to be separate to the IS group.

While it is currently unknown which region the Chinese national is from or what his beliefs are, the Chinese region of Xinjiang has been beset by unrest from separatist Uighur Muslim groups.

Uighur Muslims resent Chinese control and changes to their traditional way of life. Many are urging the creation of an independent state called East Turkestan.

The Uighurs speak Turkic and follow a moderate form of Islam but some have adopted more radical strands of Islam found in Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan.


http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/iraq-crisis-photos-first-chinese-isis-militant-emerge-online-1463820

[brownmamba00]

Well it's disgraceful what the Chinese have been doing to the uyghurs in East Turkistan

[LJJ]

Well it's disgraceful what the Chinese have been doing to the uyghurs in East Turkistan

Giving them all their children free rides through college and developing the infrastructure of the region? How disgraceful.

[brownmamba00]

Giving them all their children free rides through college and developing the infrastructure of the region? How disgraceful.
oh wow free busrides

china is so cool let's forget about the '09 urumqi killings and their violent assimilation to the minorities in China. Forbidding their language in schools, cutting off water and electricity if they don't assimilate and taking them to work camps to let them die off of exhaustion. They are trying to force the 1 child rule into the region for years now but because the Uyghurs don't play all of the rules they get hit with fines and restrictions in their everyday life. The Uyghur muslims can't practice their religion freely, there are even ramadan-restrictions in the holy month. Leaving the area is also not allowed can't even go to the other Chinese cities in the country, they can travel to the other Uyghur cities pending a police permit...

and so on and so on these are just the tip of the iceberg, the Chinese have been murking the Uyghur people for years now.

pls educate yourself on the subject 'developing the infrastructure' lol

[LJJ]

oh wow free busrides

china is so cool let's forget about the '09 urumqi killings and their violent assimilation to the minorities in China. Forbidding their language in schools, cutting off water and electricity if they don't assimilate and taking them to work camps to let them die off of exhaustion. They are trying to force the 1 child rule into the region for years now but because the Uyghurs don't play all of the rules they get hit with fines and restrictions in their everyday life. The Uyghur muslims can't practice their religion freely, there are even ramadan-restrictions in the holy month. Leaving the area is also not allowed can't even go to the other Chinese cities in the country, they can travel to the other Uyghur cities pending a police permit...

and so on and so on these are just the tip of the iceberg, the Chinese have been murking the Uyghur people for years now.

pls educate yourself on the subject 'developing the infrastructure' lol

You are misinformed.

Urumqi killings? Lets not forget about the incident that started with Islamists killing random innocent people in the street, lets not forget about that indeed. Very indicative of the conflict as a whole.

First of all, Xinjiang is a Chinese province. So of course the main curriculum in schools is in standard Chinese and that's the language they learn in school. The same as it is in every country in the world. Minorities in the Netherlands or in the US still go to schools where they are taught in Dutch and English. OMG Oppression!

One child policy? The one child policy has never existed for any of the 55 designated minorities in China or interethnic couples, including the Uyghurs. In fact, minorities in China get a lot of benefits for having multiple children.

Don't buy into the propaganda. China as a whole is a bit more restrictive on the freedom of their entire population than Europe and the US. And more pragmatic, but the stories you have heard are subject to a lot of spin.

If you are an Uyghur with known terror ties and suddenly during the Beijing Olympics you want to visit Beijing with a couple of your know Islamist buddies, you might get denied travel. That's very sad, but there is also a reason (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kunming_attack) why Uyghurs are under restrictions like that and other minorities are not. No it doesn't mean Uyghurs are under constant travel restrictions, can't travel around in general. That's all only for very specific situations and incidents. And a every one time incident like that will get reported as "All Uyghurs can't freely travel to any Chinese city all the time", which is very untrue.

But, propaganda against China is harsh. Especially in the US, Japan and and in much of the Muslim world. Most Uyghurs are pretty happy with what they have in China.

[brownmamba00]

.

Urumqi killings? Lets not forget about the incident that started with Islamists killing random innocent people in the street, lets not forget about that indeed. Very indicative of the conflict as a whole.

That's just not true...the Urumqi riots were triggered by a brawl on the other side of China which resulted in 100+ migrant Uyghurs workers being killed in a factory.


First of all, Xinjiang is a Chinese province. So of course the main curriculum in schools is in standard Chinese and that's the language they learn in school. The same as it is in every country in the world. Minorities in the Netherlands or in the US still go to schools where they are taught in Dutch and English. OMG Oppression!

minorities in the NL and minorities in China are a very different story. Don't be that dense.


One child policy? The one child policy has never existed for any of the 55 designated minorities in China or interethnic couples, including the Uyghurs. In fact, minorities in China get a lot of benefits for having multiple children.

Don't buy into the propaganda. China as a whole is a bit more restrictive on the freedom of their entire population than Europe and the US. And more pragmatic, but the stories you have heard are subject to a lot of spin.

If you are an Uyghur with known terror ties and suddenly during the Beijing Olympics you want to visit Beijing with a couple of your know Islamist buddies, you might get denied travel. That's very sad, but there is also a reason (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kunming_attack) why Uyghurs are under restrictions like that and other minorities are not. No it doesn't mean Uyghurs are under constant travel restrictions, can't travel around in general. That's all only for very specific situations and incidents. And a every one time incident like that will get reported as "All Uyghurs can't freely travel to any Chinese city all the time", which is very untrue.

But, propaganda against China is harsh. Especially in the US, Japan and and in much of the Muslim world. Most Uyghurs are pretty happy with what they have in China.


yeah that's the official story but I ain't buying it

http://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/abortion-12302013050902.html
http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Uyghur-woman-forced-into-abortion-with-one-child-law-13773.html

I'm not blindly gonna believe what a communist gvt is telling the media about what's happening in their country and yes Uyghurs are under travel and work restrictions

[LJJ]

You are not going to blindly believe what the CPC tells you (smart and reasonable, nobody should get their information from the CPC and I don't buy anything they say either), but you are going to blindly believe what Radio Free Asia and Asianews.it tell you?

Honestly now. Spend one second browsing those websites. They are utterly ridiculous and you know it.


Uyghurs are free to settle anywhere in China they damn please. One of the main problems of the conflict is that they (and by they I mean a small, religious extremist minority of Uyghurs) don't agree with other Chinese settling in their province, not the other way around.

[brownmamba00]

You are not going to blindly believe what the CPC tells you (smart and reasonable, nobody should get their information from the CPC and I don't buy anything they say either), but you are going to blindly believe what Radio Free Asia and Asianews.it tell you?

Honestly now. Spend one second browsing those websites. They are utterly ridiculous and you know it.


Uyghurs are free to settle anywhere in China they damn please. One of the main problems of the conflict is that they (and by they I mean a small, religious extremist minority of Uyghurs) don't agree with other Chinese settling in their province, not the other way around.

what's wrong with rfa.org?

The influx of the Han Chinese settlers in Xinjiang is def a problem as the Uyghur ppl are now the minority in their own land and 90% of the government jobs go to the Han in the area while the Uyghur ppl do the menial work, not to mention xinjiang has the richest resources in the area which the economic benefits of are not even spread evenly among the population...religion is being censored too, mosques are being closed down and young kids under the 18 aren't even allowed to go to the mosques.

I highly doubt most of the Uyghurs are happy about their living conditions but they prefer not to make much noise as the Chinese govt gives violent reactions against separatist thoughts and their cry for help barely gets any acknowledgment in the western media compared to say the palestinians.

[LJJ]

what's wrong with rfa.org?

The influx of the Han Chinese settlers in Xinjiang is def a problem as the Uyghur ppl are now the minority in their own land and 90% of the government jobs go to the Han in the area while the Uyghur ppl do the menial work, not to mention xinjiang has the richest resources in the area which the economic benefits of are not even spread evenly among the population...religion is being censored too, mosques are being closed down and young kids under the 18 aren't even allowed to go to the mosques.

I highly doubt most of the Uyghurs are happy about their living conditions but they prefer not to make much noise as the Chinese govt gives violent reactions against separatist thoughts and their cry for help barely gets any acknowledgment in the western media compared to say the palestinians.

There is a reason why you can find the "OMG Uyghurs women undergoing forced abortion" Articles on RFA (many outrageous articles like that) while non of those reports get confirmed by any major, reputable, independent news organisation. They are a propaganda channel.

Anyway, why is it a problem if Chinese people move to another Chinese province? Because their ethnicity and religion is different it's a problem? Non Muslims shouldn't be allowed to migrate to Xinjiang? Lol. Just one post ago you were raving about how Uyghurs weren't free to settle in other parts of China (completely false) and know you are pleading for racial and ethnic (and lets be honest: religious) movement restrictions for other Chinese people.

The Uyghurs are uneducated and poorly skilled compared to the rest of China. That's why the Chinese government is doing everything they can to improve the education level in that area. Uyghur families have more, better and cheaper access to education than other Chinese families.

It's true that there are issues with religious freedom in China, but thats an issue for the entirity of China. That has nothing to do with just the Uyghur, and it's nowhere near as extreme as how you are portraying it.

[brownmamba00]

There is a reason why you can find the "OMG Uyghurs women undergoing forced abortion" Articles on RFA (many outrageous articles like that) while non of those reports get confirmed by any major, reputable, independent news organisation. They are a propaganda channel.

Anyway, why is it a problem if Chinese people move to another Chinese province? Because their ethnicity and religion is different it's a problem? Non Muslims shouldn't be allowed to migrate to Xinjiang? Lol. Just one post ago you were raving about how Uyghurs weren't free to settle in other parts of China (completely false) and know you are pleading for racial and ethnic (and lets be honest: religious) movement restrictions for other Chinese people.

The Uyghurs are uneducated and poorly skilled compared to the rest of China. That's why the Chinese government is doing everything they can to improve the education level in that area. Uyghur families have more, better and cheaper access to education than other Chinese families.

It's true that there are issues with religious freedom in China, but thats an issue for the entirity of China. That has nothing to do with just the Uyghur, and it's nowhere near as extreme as how you are portraying it.

that's because the major reputable news organisations really don't give a flying **** about what's happening over there. Not to mention it's nearly impossible to verify something like that from the Chinese govt.

first off I never plaid for racial and ethnic movement restrictions for the Chinese people in their own land :facepalm

I'm just showing the double standard (to put it lightly) when it comes to China and it's minorities and you're just brushing it off as 'propaganda'.

And no Uyghurs are not 100% free to move to another city unless they're going to work on cheap labor but it's not even that relevant as 80% of the Uyghurs live in rural areas and are low key farmers who live on one of the richest ground of China so why would they even move...It's much more likely that the Chinese come along and take over which has been happening these past 50 years.

check this out tho;http://www.dossiertibet.it/news/why-chinese-government-force-uyghur-farmers-get-loan-rural-credit-cooperatives

the banking system is another double standard of the Chinese govt.

btw the Uyghurs may be uneducated but they are not poorly skilled.

Also aren't you Europeans complaining about Islam spreading around in Europe calling it Europe's new pest? (While Muslims barely make up 10% of the EU)

now imagine how the Uyghurs feel after 50 years of influx of Chinese settlers their number is now only 40% of the population of Xinjiang which was their homeland that had been taken from them in 1949 to incorporate in to a communist govt which goes against everything their culture believes in.

I'll give you this tho, after 50 years of negligence and the '09 Urumqi killings, China is been trying to take care of the area with energy projects and relieving some of the militaristic pressure on the silk road outpost which is receiving a lot more touristic attention these last years.

But that's not enough, the economic benefits of the area need to be spread more evenly, Uyghurs need to able to get better paid government jobs and they need to do something about the brawls and God knows how many killings that happen over there between the Han and the Uyghur population.

[Rodmantheman]

Remember when Obama said ISIS was a JV team.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111119363/3671525-3346674585-mj-la.gif

[LJJ]

that's because the major reputable news organisations really don't give a flying **** about what's happening over there. Not to mention it's nearly impossible to verify something like that from the Chinese govt.

first off I never plaid for racial and ethnic movement restrictions for the Chinese people in their own land :facepalm

I'm just showing the double standard (to put it lightly) when it comes to China and it's minorities and you're just brushing it off as 'propaganda'.

And no Uyghurs are not 100% free to move to another city unless they're going to work on cheap labor but it's not even that relevant as 80% of the Uyghurs live in rural areas and are low key farmers who live on one of the richest ground of China so why would they even move...It's much more likely that the Chinese come along and take over which has been happening these past 50 years.

check this out tho;http://www.dossiertibet.it/news/why-chinese-government-force-uyghur-farmers-get-loan-rural-credit-cooperatives

the banking system is another double standard of the Chinese govt.

btw the Uyghurs may be uneducated but they are not poorly skilled.

Also aren't you Europeans complaining about Islam spreading around in Europe calling it Europe's new pest? (While Muslims barely make up 10% of the EU)

now imagine how the Uyghurs feel after 50 years of influx of Chinese settlers their number is now only 40% of the population of Xinjiang which was their homeland that had been taken from them in 1949 to incorporate in to a communist govt which goes against everything their culture believes in.

I'll give you this tho, after 50 years of negligence and the '09 Urumqi killings, China is been trying to take care of the area with energy projects and relieving some of the militaristic pressure on the silk road outpost which is receiving a lot more touristic attention these last years.

But that's not enough, the economic benefits of the area need to be spread more evenly, Uyghurs need to able to get better paid government jobs and they need to do something about the brawls and God knows how many killings that happen over there between the Han and the Uyghur population.

Again. Dossiertibet.it ?

There has been a lot of writing about China and it's ethnic tensions. Lots of books by academics, lots of papers, and a lot of reputable news sources make reports. All these outrageous claims come purely from sources like RFA, Asianews.it and Uyghur/Tibetan separatist movements.

Btw, when you are talking about how the Chinese "took" the Uyghur's homeland, you are talking about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_East_Turkestan_Republic
A Soviet puppet state that existed for about five years, the area having been a completely integrated part of China for the previous 200 years at least and a strong Chinese identity for at least 2000 years.

The truth is that most minorities in China are very happy with the way their government treats them. Lots of ethnic minorities like the Hui, the Tujia, the Zhuang have been uplifted from their relative poverty by the Chinese government and these people identify completely as Chinese while having maintained the right to preserve their language, their autonomity, their culture and their religious practices.

Somehow the only two minorities who have been causing problems consistently for all these years despite a huge effort by the Chinese government to improve their quality are the Tibetans and the Uyghurs. And even then, it's only a minority contingent within these groups, most of them would never want to separate from China.
Not at all coincidentally, these are also precisely the two regions that have had their rebellions and separatist movements extensively funded by foreign powers. The Tibetan rebellions and separatist movements were supported by and funded by the US. The Uyghur rebellion and separatist movement has been extensively supported by the Soviet union at first, and Islamist governments recently.

That is the real reason there are these problems with 2 out of the 55 minorities in China. Not Chinese oppression and brutality.

[Combat Wombat]

Some are trying to return "home".

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2744620/Dozens-British-jihadis-want-return-home-Intermediary-claims-30-British-men-requests-disillusioned-conflict.html

http://www.cavemancircus.com/wp-content/uploads/images/2014/september/pictures_of_the_day/9_3/pictures_of_the_day_6.jpg

[East_Stone_Ya]

Some are trying to return "home".

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2744620/Dozens-British-jihadis-want-return-home-Intermediary-claims-30-British-men-requests-disillusioned-conflict.html

http://www.cavemancircus.com/wp-content/uploads/images/2014/september/pictures_of_the_day/9_3/pictures_of_the_day_6.jpg

And the ones that want to return home will be labeled as traitors by ISIS and are held as prisoners.

[East_Stone_Ya]

ISIS attacks town north Oo Baghdad, kills 17 and injures 54



An attack by Islamic State militants early on Monday in a village north of Baghdad killed 17 people and injured 54 others, according to media reports.

The attack, which was reportedly carried out with gunboats and a car bomb, took place in the riverside town of Dhuluiya, about 45 miles north of Baghdad. The attacker drove his explosives-laden Humvee into the gathering of a major Sunni tribe called the Al-Jabour, which has sided with Iraqi forces in their battles against Islamic State,


http://www.ibtimes.com/islamic-state-or-isis-attacks-town-north-baghdad-kills-17-injures-54-1681190

[Godzuki]

Some are trying to return "home".

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2744620/Dozens-British-jihadis-want-return-home-Intermediary-claims-30-British-men-requests-disillusioned-conflict.html

http://www.cavemancircus.com/wp-content/uploads/images/2014/september/pictures_of_the_day/9_3/pictures_of_the_day_6.jpg

they shouldn't even be allowed back in the country. i really hope the U.S. are taking harsher measures than the British. i read recently about a british girl who went and joined ISIS....have fun being smacked around and living as a slave to men. i swear people can be so retarded its hard to even fathom sometimes how retarded :facepalm

[Nick Young]

they shouldn't even be allowed back in the country. i really hope the U.S. are taking harsher measures than the British. i read recently about a british girl who went and joined ISIS....have fun being smacked around and living as a slave to men. i swear people can be so retarded its hard to even fathom sometimes how retarded :facepalm
There are like 4 British girls running the ISIS twitters channels. There was pics of them with selfies in the paper. What a bunch of c*nts. In 2 months to a year they will all be crying to go back home, and UK will probably let them in:facepalm

Cut these bitches passports! They are only extremists because it is giving them so much online attention:facepalm

[sweggeh]

There are like 4 British girls running the ISIS twitters channels. There was pics of them with selfies in the paper. What a bunch of c*nts. In 2 months to a year they will all be crying to go back home, and UK will probably let them in:facepalm

Cut these bitches passports! They are only extremists because it is giving them so much online attention:facepalm

They wont be just "let in", believe me. They are gonna be getting raped in prison soon enough.

[Nick Young]

I do agree. The phuckboys who go over there from here (UK) should have their rights as a citizen stripped if they are known fighters in a Holy War. But the threat of Islam impacting over the UK is incredibly low, I despise religion but I can give followers credit. Most Muslims don't agree with the fundamentalism, on top of that the Christians who really are just racists are willing to fight the extremists so we're safe for now.
Forreal, why let these assholes back in to the UK, they will play playstation 4 for a few months until they get bored and then start getting in to the extremist shit again unless they have some kind of anti-brainwash program:facepalm

[Nick Young]

They wont be just "let in", believe me. They are gonna be getting raped in prison soon enough.
They will cry and claim they were pressured to the judge and be let off.

There is a video of muslim girls beating the shit out of a white girl while screaming kill the white slag-the white girl got hospitalized, the 5 muslim girls got off scott free because they cried and said they had never had alchohol before and it made them do terrible things. That happened in the UK a few years ago. No hate crime, no jail, nothing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IyVtyqHvac
That is the way UK law works. Muslims are given special treatment because judges are afraid of being called Islamaphobic.

[Nick Young]

Britain and American were ready to send in their troops to fight with ISIS against Assad in Syria. :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: Now that their oil and commercial interests are threatened in Kurdistan ISIS are now the bad guys. :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

PS. To the guy arguing about the treatment of Uyghars in northern China. Do you really think its just the Muslims who are persecuted in China? All religious communities are equally treated as bad. They recently knocked down some of the biggest Christian churches in the country, and even Buddhist teachings are banned from schools. Religion just has no place is Chinese society atm. It isnt anything Anti-Muslim. Deal with it
FORREAL! So many assholes on ISH were pro-ISIS in these times, comparing Assad to Hitler:roll: :roll: :roll: Turns out those assholes have to eat their words, Assad is a saint compared to these phucks. Syria was a decent enough place to live before these ISIS assholes started a civil war there and started eating dead bodies.

[East_Stone_Ya]

FORREAL! So many assholes on ISH were pro-ISIS in these times, comparing Assad to Hitler:roll: :roll: :roll: Turns out those assholes have to eat their words, Assad is a saint compared to these phucks. Syria was a decent enough place to live before these ISIS assholes started a civil war there and started eating dead bodies.

they weren't pro-ISIS since ISIS as it is now didn't exist back then

[East_Stone_Ya]

After Not Making The Cut For US Special Forces, This Guy Converted To Islam And Now Supports ISIS

http://www.westernjournalism.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/donmorgan.jpg


[QUOTE]on Morgan, a man who was a military school student, special forces hopeful, and law enforcement officer, sought to join the terrorist group ISIS. In an interview with a freelance journalist, Morgan laid out his life story and his reasons for supporting ISIS.

Why did he support ISIS? He saw it as the most consistently Islamic organization out there. As he said,

[Nick Young]

they weren't pro-ISIS since ISIS as it is now didn't exist back then
They were pro-Syrian rebels, didn't matter they filmed themselves eating the hearts out of enemy corpses. USA and ISH were backing them over Assad.

Putin actually did the right thing there, preventing western intervention before it began. Deserves a nobel peace prize more then Obama does, not that that award means anything any more.

[Godzuki]

its really not that surprising to see so many internet people go to ISIS. i swear a lot of people on the internet have these anti establishment beliefs, and for some reason think these groups against them express righteousness or real freedom.

IMO we should give free planet tix rides to join ISIS to weed them all out, and then blow them up. it would kill so many birds with such fewer stones.

[KingBeasley08]

FORREAL! So many assholes on ISH were pro-ISIS in these times, comparing Assad to Hitler:roll: :roll: :roll: Turns out those assholes have to eat their words, Assad is a saint compared to these phucks. Syria was a decent enough place to live before these ISIS assholes started a civil war there and started eating dead bodies.
Yup, people got to give me and Nick credit. Look back a year ago, we were both calling out Obama and the US on their BS and support of the Syrian "rebels" while KevinNYC was posting his White House propaganda. Anyone with a brain could tell that the rebels were Muslim extremists and supporting them would be retarded as fck

[East_Stone_Ya]

The CIA says the Islamic State militant group may have up to 31,000 fighters in Iraq and Syria - three times as many as previously feared.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77535000/jpg/_77535693_8843ef6b-a568-48ad-b356-85d54cb69524.jpg


http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77477000/gif/_77477849_areas_under_is_control_624.gif


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29169914

[Nick Young]

The CIA says the Islamic State militant group may have up to 31,000 fighters in Iraq and Syria - three times as many as previously feared.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77535000/jpg/_77535693_8843ef6b-a568-48ad-b356-85d54cb69524.jpg


http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77477000/gif/_77477849_areas_under_is_control_624.gif


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29169914
Bring out the firebombs:rockon: :rockon: :rockon:

[East_Stone_Ya]

if anyone is wondering why Turkey is not participating in the coalition against IS then here is a article that states some reasons for it.


But the diplomats held hostage by IS make Turkey's next move delicate for fear of retaliation.

Ankara wants to stem the influx of Syrian refugees. And it fears that weapons may pass from Kurdish groups in Syria to Kurdish PKK fighters in Turkey - deemed a terrorist threat.

With those concerns weighing heavy, government officials say Turkey will not take part in combat operations and will not allow its bases to be used for air strikes.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29163361

[Nick Young]

In repayment for the Turks cowardice and treachery, I hope when we make Kurdistan an independent nation, we draw their borders all the way up to Istanbul and arm them to the teeth:lol

No more fence sitters!

[brownmamba00]

In repayment for the Turks cowardice and treachery, I hope when we make Kurdistan an independent nation, we draw their borders all the way up to Istanbul and arm them to the teeth:lol

No more fence sitters!
well you've been arming the kurds to the teeth since the 90s so that's nothing new.

[East_Stone_Ya]

In repayment for the Turks cowardice and treachery, I hope when we make Kurdistan an independent nation, we draw their borders all the way up to Istanbul and arm them to the teeth:lol

No more fence sitters!

this idea would not be welcomed by Turkish nationalists since according to them Kurdistan state is a project inspired by the United States and Israel and aimed ultimately at undermining Turkey. Also they believe that ties with an independent Kurdistan will alienate Turkey further from the Arab world.

[LJJ]

if anyone is wondering why Turkey is not participating in the coalition against IS then here is a article that states some reasons for it.



http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29163361

The main reason is that the Turkish government is a lot more closely alligned with IS than you would think. Turkey has supported them heavily in their fight against Assad while making money on the side from trading with IS (which they still do).

Ideologically the Turkish government would also much rather have IS in control of Syria and Iraq than any of the other candidates. Only the past 2 months with the backlash from the international community has their relationship with IS soured a little.

[Nick Young]

well you've been arming the kurds to the teeth since the 90s so that's nothing new.
their time is now:rockon: :rockon: :rockon:
http://d3dyqb2m69ozbp.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/img_from_extracter/kurdish-official-urge-us-not-to-interfere-in-kurdistan-region-oil-exports.jpg

[Nick Young]

this idea would not be welcomed by Turkish nationalists since according to them Kurdistan state is a project inspired by the United States and Israel and aimed ultimately at undermining Turkey. Also they believe that ties with an independent Kurdistan will alienate Turkey further from the Arab world.
that will teach those cowards to fence sit

[East_Stone_Ya]

The main reason is that the Turkish government is a lot more closely alligned with IS than you would think. Turkey has supported them heavily in their fight against Assad while making money on the side from trading with IS (which they still do).

Ideologically the Turkish government would also much rather have IS in control of Syria and Iraq than any of the other candidates. Only the past 2 months with the backlash from the international community has their relationship with IS soured a little.

what trades are you referring to?

and isn't Turkey actually supporting Al-Nusra front in Syria?

[LJJ]

what trades are you referring to?

and isn't Turkey actually supporting Al-Nusra front in Syria?

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/18/business/al-khatteeb-isis-oil-iraq/

IS partly splintered off from Al Nusra, a while ago they were the same thing. The ideological differences between them are trivial too.

[East_Stone_Ya]

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/18/business/al-khatteeb-isis-oil-iraq/

IS partly splintered off from Al Nusra, a while ago they were the same thing. The ideological differences between them are trivial too.


well then they are trading with smugglers and criminal groups not directly with the Turkish state. I guess we can agree that some corrupt border control workers don't represent the state intentions.

[LJJ]

well then they are trading with smugglers and criminal groups not directly with the Turkish state. I guess we can agree that some corrupt border control workers don't represent the state intentions.

The Turkish side of Syria is one of the main jihadist fronts of the country. It's where many of the kidnappings of journalists have taken place. It's also where virtually all the foreign fighters from the west (and Turkey itself of course) have crossed to border.

No, it all goes well beyond "a few corrupt border control workers".

[KevinNYC]

well this is strange since it is believed that IS get's some support from Saudi Arabia
Jihadist hate the Saudi Arabian government. SA has had a lot of problems with Al Qaeda.

When folks say they get support from the Saudis you never know if that is official, quasi-official or private money. There's a lot of private Saudi money.

[East_Stone_Ya]

Jihadist hate the Saudi Arabian government. SA has had a lot of problems with Al Qaeda.

When folks say they get support from the Saudis you never know if that is official, quasi-official or private money. There's a lot of private Saudi money.

article about the funding of ISIS

[QUOTE]Much has been written about the support Islamic State (IS) has received from donors and sympathisers, particularly in the wealthy Gulf States.

Indeed the accusation I hear most from those fighting IS in Iraq and Syria is that Qatar, Turkey and Saudi Arabia are solely responsible for the group's existence.

But the truth is a little more complex and needs some exploring.

It is true that some wealthy individuals from the Gulf have funded extremist groups in Syria, many taking bags of cash to Turkey and simply handing over millions of dollars at a time.

This was an extremely common practice in 2012 and 2013 but has since diminished and is at most only a tiny percentage of the total income that flows into Islamic State coffers in 2014.

It is also true that Saudi Arabia and Qatar, believing that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad would soon fall and that Sunni political Islam was a true vehicle for their political goals, funded groups that had strongly Islamist credentials.

Liwa al-Tawhid, Ahrar al-Sham, Jaish al-Islam were just such groups, all holding tenuous links to the "bad guy" of the time - the al-Nusra Front, al-Qaeda's wing in Syria.Qatar especially attracted criticism for its cloudy links to the group.

Turkey for its part operated a highly questionable policy of border enforcement in which weapons and money flooded into Syria, with Qatari and Saudi backing.

All had thought that this would facilitate the end of Mr Assad's regime and the reordering of Syria into a Sunni power, breaking Shia Iran's link to the Mediterranean.

Islamic State's goal of establishing an Islamic caliphate is certainly attractive in some corners of Islamic thinking

[East_Stone_Ya]

nice article about the Kurdish women that are fighting against ISIS

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/files/imagecache/860x/images/edit_edit.jpg


It was as a young woman in the rugged mountains of southeast Turkey and northern Iraq that Avesta says she discovered herself. "It was in the mountains that I found out women can be also powerful," said Avesta. The ranks of the PKK, a Marxist organization, are filled with women, a rarity in the conservative cultures of the Muslim world. About half of the organization's leaders are women. And the Kurdish guerrilla group stands in especially stark contrast to the radical fundamentalism of the Islamic State, which confines women's role to mostly domestic tasks such as raising children, cooking, cleaning, and pleasing their husbands.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/09/12/meet_the_badass_women_fighting_the_islamic_state_p kk_kurdish

[Nick Young]

Go Kurds! F*ck the ISIS loving turks and Iraqis!


Looks like the US propaganda train is in full flow, glamourizing militant Kurdish groups. Kurdistan on the way:rockon: :rockon: :rockon:

[Rodmantheman]

People, media need to stop hyping ISIS as some kind of “boogeyman” that could attack the U.S. at any minute. Saudi Arabia has beheaded 19 people in one month. Isis would be proud.

[East_Stone_Ya]

The anatomy of ISIS

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/140918111630-isis-hierarchy-chart-2-story-top.jpg



Baghdadi, his Cabinet advisers and his two key deputies comprise the executive branch of the government, known as "Al Imara."
The two deputies -- Abu Ali al-Anbari and Abu Muslim al-Turkmani, veteran Iraqi military officials who served under Saddam Hussein -- oversee Syria and Iraq, respectively.
ISIS has probably split the governance of the "Islamic State" into Syrian and Iraqi branches simply to make it easier to run, according to Jasmine Opperman, TRAC's Southern Africa Director.
"They see the caliphate as one state, yet there are two different governments," Opperman told CNN. "I believe this split is purely administrative at this time. They don't want to be seen as downplaying the caliphate, but to make it easier to govern they were forced to make a separation between Syria and Iraq."
The two deputies deliver orders to the governors in charge of the various sub-states in Syria and Iraq under ISIS control, who then instruct local councils on how to implement the executive branch's decrees on everything from media relations and recruiting to policing and financial matters.
The Shura council -- which reports directly to the executive branch -- is the caliphate's religious monitor, appointed to make sure that all the local councils and governors are sticking to ISIS' version of Islamic law.
The recent murders of Western hostages James Foley, Steven Sotloff, and David Haines would have fallen under the Shura council's purview, according to Opperman.
"Let's say a significant execution is going to take place, something that will get ISIS on the front page of the newspaper," Opperman said. "It cannot be done without Shura council approval."
The Shura council also has the power to censure the leadership for running afoul of its interpretation of Sharia law, according to Opperman.
"The Shura council has the right to tell Baghdadi to go if he's not adhering to ISIS' religious standards," she told CNN. "It would most probably never happen, but the fact that it's possible indicates the council's prominence."


http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/18/world/meast/isis-syria-iraq-hierarchy/

[East_Stone_Ya]

ISIS advances in Syria


Islamic State fighters besieged a Kurdish city in northern Syria on Thursday after seizing 21 villages in a major assault, prompting a call to arms from Kurds in neighboring Turkey who urged followers to go and help resist the group's advance.

The attack on the city of Ayn al-Arab, known as Kobani in Kurdish, came two days after the top U.S. military officer said the Syrian opposition would probably need the help of the Syrian Kurds to defeat Islamic State.


Islamic State fighters, armed with heavy weaponry including tanks, seized a group of villages near Kobani in an offensive which the Observatory said had started on Tuesday night.

It said 21 villages had fallen to Islamic State in the last 24 hours as the group advanced on the city.

"We've lost touch with many of the residents living in the villages that ISIS (Islamic State) seized," Ocalan Iso, deputy head of the Kurdish forces in Kobani, told Reuters via Skype.

He said the group was committing massacres and kidnapping women in the newly-seized areas, giving the names of 28 members of a single family he said had been taken captive. It was not possible to verify his account immediately.

http://s4.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20140918&t=2&i=974714962&w=580&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&r=LYNXMPEA8H0ZZ

[East_Stone_Ya]

I wonder If they are aware that many of the young foreign fighters are often seen has ''informants of the west'' and traitors by ISIS


In conunction, most Muslims in the radical scene are wary about stating their support for Islamic State, especially after the recent arrests.

"Every Muslim is basically in favour of the establishment of an Islamic state," claimed the Salafist preacher known as Abu Hafs. He is the spokesman for the Bewust Moslim group. "But it is premature to judge whether the IS is the designated party," he continued. "Not enough is known about the organisation, and the opinions among Muslim scholars are divided."

Ali Abu Safiya, spokesman for Moslims in Dialoog, a similar platform, said only a small part of the Muslim community in the Netherlands supports the IS unconditionally and "applauds everything they do".

"A larger group condemns the IS entirely. Like the vast majority, we are not for or against the IS, but we have a more nuanced position," he said.

According to Abu Safiya, the one-sided, inaccurate reporting about Islamic State and the "demonisation of its sympathisers" is a major reason for "the increasing sympathy" for the group.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2014/09/islamic-state-fears-take-hold-netherlands-201492131426326526.html

[dude77]

nice article about the Kurdish women that are fighting against ISIS

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/files/imagecache/860x/images/edit_edit.jpg



http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/09/12/meet_the_badass_women_fighting_the_islamic_state_p kk_kurdish

I heard she was killed recently ..

what's really rustling the fk outta my jimmies is hearing these reports about kidnapping and slaughtering civilian women and children and families who have nothing to do with anything but just trying to live their lives and survive shitty conditions ..

even beheading the children ? .. I don't even wanna know if they're doing it while they're alive .. pure evil .. fk these people .. I wish the absolute worst on them

[Nick Young]

Goddamn we got to save the Kurds! F*CK IS! Railgun the shit out of these assholes!

[fpliii]

We need to train/arm local ground troops ASAP.

[senelcoolidge]

I feel like a lot of time is being wasted. A lot of innocent and brave people are being slaughtered by these idiotic cowards. Who beheads children? These ISIS people need to be erased off the face of the world. Stop wasting time. Is Michelle Obama still holding that sign "free our girls" for those girls that were kidnapped in Africa. What happened there? These politicians voted to arm the Syrian rebels and than take ANOTHER vacation..WTH. I wish we could round up these politicians and kick them out or arrest them. So worthless and the same corrupt people keep getting voted in over and over. Stop wasting time damn it.

[Nick Young]

I feel like a lot of time is being wasted. A lot of innocent and brave people are being slaughtered by these idiotic cowards. Who beheads children? These ISIS people need to be erased off the face of the world. Stop wasting time. Is Michelle Obama still holding that sign "free our girls" for those girls that were kidnapped in Africa. What happened there? These politicians voted to arm the Syrian rebels and than take ANOTHER vacation..WTH. I wish we could round up these politicians and kick them out or arrest them. So worthless and the same corrupt people keep getting voted in over and over. Stop wasting time damn it.
No one has any idea where those Nigerian girls are still and the search has been called off last I heard. Maybe Michelle needs to hold up another sign doe?:confusedshrug:
http://images.thehollywoodgossip.com/iu/t_full/v1399577488/michelle-obama-bring-back-our-girls.jpg

as if she even cares...

[Godzuki]

No one has any idea where those Nigerian girls are still and the search has been called off last I heard. Maybe Michelle needs to hold up another sign doe?:confusedshrug:
http://images.thehollywoodgossip.com/iu/t_full/v1399577488/michelle-obama-bring-back-our-girls.jpg

as if she even cares...


they want to trade the girls for 20~ something of their top officers who are imprisoned.

[Nick Young]

they want to trade the girls for 20~ something of their top officers who are imprisoned.
Wasn't Obama going to save them no matter what?
XD

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/14/nigeria-girls-kidnapped-5-months_n_5791622.html

[QUOTE]Even though they were reportedly located months ago
In May, a Nigerian military official claimed he knew where the girls were being held. A month later, U.S. surveillance planes also spotted a group that officials believed to be the girls.

Stephen Davis, an Australian cleric and mediator, said in June that a deal to free the girls had fallen apart three different times in one month. He says that powerful people with "vested interests" are working to sabotage a deal, and he has accused Nigerian politicians of funding Boko Haram. Nigeria's government has defended its approach to the crisis and warned that a rescue effort might risk the girls' lives.

Other countries have made little progress
According to the Associated Press, it took more than two weeks for Nigeria to accept offers of international assistance to find the schoolgirls.

When other countries did start to help, they didn't get very far. The U.S. sent 80 troops in late May to coordinate an aerial search from neighboring Chad. Canada, France, Israel and the U.K. also sent special forces to Nigeria. But six weeks later, the Pentagon press secretary announced that the U.S. mission would be scaled back, saying: "We don't have any better idea today than we did before about where these girls are."

The troops are still in Chad and the U.S. has surveillance and reconnaissance flights looking for the girls each week. U.S. officials have expressed concern about sharing intelligence on Boko Haram given the Nigerian military's poor human rights record.

Meanwhile, the girls' hometown is still in danger
Residents in Chibok face the unrelenting threat of an attack by militants. In June, a Boko Haram offensive on nearby villages crept within three miles of the town where the girls were kidnapped.

Tragically, at least 11 parents of the kidnapped girls have been killed by militants or died of illness.

And Boko Haram violence rages on
Since April, Boko Haram claims to have taken over at least five towns in northeastern Nigeria, although the military says it has won some of these back. The militant group has also kidnapped at least three more smaller groups of girls as well as dozens of boys and young men -- some of whom were later rescued.

More than 2,100 people are reported to have been killed by Boko Haram since April 14, according to data from the Council on Foreign Relations. And during a span of 10 days in August, some 10,000 people were displaced by fighting in northeastern Nigeria.

Nigeria

[9erempiree]

What's the story on these girls?

[East_Stone_Ya]

What's the story on these girls?


The kidnapping in April of more than 200 girls and young women from a boarding school in Chibok, also in Borno state, focused world attention on Boko Haram's activities, and prompted western governments to offer military assistance to Nigeria to tackle the insurgency.

American drones, counter-terrorism experts and advanced surveillance technology from the US and the UK have been deployed in Nigeria in recent weeks. France, Israel and Turkey also offered assistance.

America's first lady Michelle Obama was among millions of people who backed a global Twitter campaign, #BringBackOurGirls, amid fears that those abducted would be used as sex slaves or trafficked to other countries.




http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/24/boko-haram-abducts-women-girls-north-nigeria-kidnap

[Nick Young]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/24/boko-haram-abducts-women-girls-north-nigeria-kidnap
still are nowhere near being found. Hold up more pieces of paper Michelle!

[East_Stone_Ya]

still are nowhere near being found. Hold up more pieces of paper Michelle!

in other words everybody is more concerned about the current Ukraine crisis and ISIS

[East_Stone_Ya]

http://cdn.24.co.za/files/Cms/General/d/2637/a4ff8435a5bc4c16880a6b0b9e045057.jpg


"It will be broken and defeated, just as all your previous campaigns were broken and defeated," Adnani said, according to the recording, which urged followers to attack U.S., French, Canadian, Australian and other nationals.

"If you fight it (Islamic State), it becomes stronger and tougher. If you leave it alone, it grows and expands. If Obama has promised you with defeating the Islamic State, then Bush has also lied before him," Adnani said, according to the transcript.

"DRAGGED TO DESTRUCTION"

Addressing Obama directly, Adnani added: "O mule of the Jews, you claimed today that America would not be drawn into a war on the ground. No, it will be drawn and dragged ... to its death, grave and destruction."

Obama, who has spent much of his tenure since 2009 extracting the United States from Iraq after its costly 2003 invasion and occupation, is sensitive to charges that he is being drawn into another long campaign that risks the lives of U.S. soldiers.

While Obama has ruled out a combat mission, military officials say the reality of a protracted campaign in Iraq and possibly Syria may ultimately require greater use of U.S. troops, including tactical air strike spotters or front-line advisers embedded with Iraqi forces.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/22/us-iraq-crisis-adnani-idUSKCN0HH1MB20140922

[Trollsmasher]

No one has any idea where those Nigerian girls are still and the search has been called off last I heard. Maybe Michelle needs to hold up another sign doe?:confusedshrug:
http://images.thehollywoodgossip.com/iu/t_full/v1399577488/michelle-obama-bring-back-our-girls.jpg

as if she even cares...
damn, she could've at least tried to look emotionally invested:lol

[poido123]

http://cdn.24.co.za/files/Cms/General/d/2637/a4ff8435a5bc4c16880a6b0b9e045057.jpg



http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/22/us-iraq-crisis-adnani-idUSKCN0HH1MB20140922



Scary.

These people are ruthless and have no value on life.

[Trollsmasher]

Scary.

These people are ruthless and have no value on life.
are you deeming their culture inferior, racist?:coleman:

[poido123]

are you deeming their culture inferior, racist?:coleman:


How did you gather that from what I said?