If Bird was considered the GOAT before Jordan, why...

[russwest0]

Did his ranking get dropped quite a few spots after Jordan? :confusedshrug:

[navy]

3 rings isnt GOAT material.

[BlkMambaGOAT]

By 1986, his 7th year as pro, Bird won 3 straight MVPs(back when it wasn't a media award), 3 rings incl. one as the underdog against Magic, putting up insane #'s. Just when you thought he couldn't be more well rounded, he won the 3 point shooting contest.

If this happened today, twitter, ISH, facebook, instagram, et al would shut down due to excess internet traffic.

His first 7 years may be the GOAT of all time.

[russwest0]

By 1986, his 7th year as pro, Bird won 3 straight MVPs(back when it wasn't a media award), 3 rings incl. one as the underdog against Magic, putting up insane #'s. Just when you thought he couldn't be more well rounded, he won the 3 point shooting contest.

If this happened today, twitter, ISH, facebook, instagram, et al would shut down due to excess internet traffic.

His first 7 years may be the GOAT of all time.

Yeah injuries kind of brought his career to an early end but anyone who watched prime Bird or followed his career knows just how good he was...

[Soundwave]

To be honest as I remember it before Jordan took the GOAT title for the majority of people, I think the consensus with the general public was that Magic was considered GOAT.

That's why even up until 1997 a lot of people would still say "well Magic has 5 rings too, if Jordan wants to best him he needs to win 6".

[Psileas]

People love to mix primes, peaks and careers and call players "GOAT" without specifying their criteria. Bird had a GOAT-level peak in the mid-80's and, when the GOAT mentions of him reached their peak ('86), people were expecting him to continue to dominate at a similar rate for the years to come. But this wouldn't happen, since both Magic and Jordan exploded in the following season, then Magic repeated as a champion in '88, then followed Bird's operation and he was never the same since, while Magic continued winning MVP's, then Jordan dominated the 90's and the GOAT conversation for Bird came to a halt.

Plus, it was the first generation of new fans showing their ignorance about the 60's-70's (the first instigators of myths like 6'5 centers playing in the 60's, Russell being a bad offensive player, Wilt being a bad playoff performer, etc) that pushed Bird and then Magic and Jordan to statuses they shouldn't have earned that early.

[Kblaze8855]

By 1986, his 7th year as pro, Bird won 3 straight MVPs(back when it wasn't a media award

Kareem won the last MVP voted on by the players in 1980. doc won the first media MVP in 1981. All of Birds were media votes.

But he would have won anyway. 85 and 86 at least. Bernard King may have won a players vote in 84.


Plus, it was the first generation of new fans showing their ignorance about the 60's-70's (the first instigators of myths like 6'5 centers playing in the 60's, Russell being a bad offensive player, Wilt being a bad playoff performer, etc) that pushed Bird and then Magic and Jordan to statuses they shouldn't have earned that early.

Always some of that. But some just saw the ability. Jerry Sloan played against Wilt, Russell, Baylor, west, and Oscar and ranked Bird as the GOAT after the first round of the 81 playoffs.

[KBaller33]

Was Bird considered the GOAT? Or was it Magic,Kareem,Wilt, or Russell?

[Dragic4Life]

Magic was considered GOAT before Jordan.

[riseagainst]

so the real GOAT list should be:

1. MJ
2. Magic
3. etc
etc

[pudman13]

To be honest as I remember it before Jordan took the GOAT title for the majority of people, I think the consensus with the general public was that Magic was considered GOAT.



Back in the day Bird was considered to be better than Magic, though as Magic's career ended up going a bit longer it probably evened out.

It's interesting that at the time Bird and Magic were rated higher than Karee by most, but since then Kareem seems to have risen higher than them.

[russwest0]

Back in the day Bird was considered to be better than Magic, though as Magic's career ended up going a bit longer it probably evened out.

It's interesting that at the time Bird and Magic were rated higher than Karee by most, but since then Kareem seems to have risen higher than them.

Kareem looks great with career stats and shit like that

[Champ]

As time passes it's easier and arguably more objective for fans to quantify their GOAT rankings through numbers and statistics. This helps players who have longevity on their side (i.e. Kareem, Kobe), while hurting those who don't.

Bird was playing at such a high-level through the first half of the 87'-88 season that it was projected he had a good chance of retaining the GOAT consensus he first started picking up in '86, though in hindsight this may have been premature.

Magic's ascendance to GOAT levels was evident, albeit the discussion was briefer than Bird's, and didn't really start taking place until after the Lakers won back-to-back titles in the late-80s and he took home his second MVP. Part of this had to do with many some still siding with Bird, while others already began talking about the potential of a certain player from Chicago eclipsing both. This instability over who was the consensus GOAT sort of hung around until Jordan dethroned the Bad Boy Piston and started racking up titles in the early-90s.

So what about Kareem, Russell, and Wilt?

Wilt always had his supporters and critics - while his individual talents and numbers were undeniable, his reputation as a selfish player who was unable to win consistently when it counted most seemed to undermine his standing in the 1980s. This was probably undeserved, but with Magic and Bird rejuvenating the game as team-oriented, selfless leaders more concerned with winning than stats, it made sense that the media would be more attracted to their style of play and leadership as opposed to the shadow of Wilt's reputation.

Of course, Russell was the ultimate team leader, and many maintained his standing above Magic and Bird because of his unmatched leadership and all those rings, but his prime was more than a generation past by then, with some thinking the game being much different at the time (sounds familiar) and therefore not an applicable comparison. Bird and Magic were also acknowledged as great "leaders" too, and were more well-rounded - at least offensively - as players.

Kareem in the 1980s was widely regarded, along with Dr. J, as sort of the game's legacy and ambassador; a class guy with an impeccable list of career accomplishments who bridged the 60s to the 80s. But also like Erving, he seldom entered the GOAT conversation - for whatever reason - during Bird and Magic's reign. I just don't think the media appreciated his game as much as it should've at the time. He was a quiet leader, who kept out of the spotlight more than the game's other stars, and on the surface, at least, didn't appear to be nearly as dynamic as Magic and Bird. Also, by the early-80s, he had conceded to Magic as the leader of the Lakers. In the years since, however, Kareem's become more appreciated by way those lofty career numbers and accolades.

[Jlamb47]

MJ
Kareem
Duncan
Kobe
Shaq
Bird
Magic
Hakeem
Lebron

[oarabbus]

Kareem looks great with career stats and shit like that


I mean.... yeah. That was his career. You can't discount his longevity when analyzing GOATness

[russwest0]

I mean.... yeah. That was his career. You can't discount his longevity when analyzing GOATness

agreed, but many of these guys play at the end of their careers simply to chase career stats and shit.

should it really make a difference if one player chose to retire while he was still going strong vs another player who played for stats until he literally couldn't anymore?

[To4]

I dunno why Magic was considered the GOAT.. Bird was better than him..

[knickswoman]

I dunno why Magic was considered the GOAT.. Bird was better than him..

same reason why bird/Robertson isn't better than Jordan. Talent means nothing if you don't know what teamwork is. Its the same reason why bran doesn't impact as kobe despite the stats.

[Stringer Bell]

Magic winning titles in 87' and 88' really helped his all-time standing, and he usually seems to be ranked above Bird on all-time lists.

The SI cover article during the 85-86 season talked about Bird being the GOAT...He was in the midst of his 3rd straight MVP season.

Magic did have an edge over Bird in rings at the time 3-2, but Bird was considered the superior player. Magic actually peaked the next year in 1986-87, and won his first regular seasons MVP.

[JohnnySic]

Bird started gaving back problems and the last 1/3 of his career he was mearly mortally great, instead of goat great.

[Wally450]

3 rings isnt GOAT material.

So why is LeBron considered in the top 10?