Who would you ask to take a back seat on your team: Shaq at 28 or MJ at 28?

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Discuss :pimp:.

Assume you are a GM that have to tell them their roles on the team.

[Dragic4Life]

1a) MJ

1b) Shaq

[navy]

Depends on the defense.

[KBaller33]

1. MJ
2.Shaq

Sorry Shaq

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Let's assume it is zone defense.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Shaq would be first option until they are in the penalty

[kennethgriffin]

jordan takes a back seat to

- prime wilt

- prime shaq

- prime kareem


its stupid to argue against it. no shame in it cause a big man is technically a more efficient option if they can average over 30ppg without disrupting the offense.

a guy like jordan can be a better player. but he isnt the more suitable option.

[Soundwave]

I'd give Shaq more touches in the first half, but I'd let Jordan have more touches in the 3rd and especially the 4th quarter.

I'd tell Jordan to get on Shaq's ass to be a better defender. I'd challenge him to expend more energy on the defensive end.

I think MJ would still get 30 ppg and Shaq would be happy with 27/13-14.

That's still only 57 points of a possible 98-100. Plenty of shots to go around.

You are talking about arguably the most efficient perimeter scorer the NBA has seen and the most efficient inside scoring force the NBA has ever seen.

[deja vu]

I'd have Shaq as the first option even though Jordan was the better player.

[kennethgriffin]

I'd give Shaq more touches in the first half, but I'd let Jordan have more touches in the 3rd and especially the 4th quarter.

I'd tell Jordan to get on Shaq's ass to be a better defender.

I think MJ would still get 30 ppg and Shaq would be happy with 27/13-14.

this is how the lakers won titles. establish the inside game. but give it to kobe down the stretch when teams start fouling

its why kobe was able to average more FGA's while shaq was getting all the looks early on


but shaq would claim finals mvps over jordan same as he did with kobe. just not enough 4th quarters to go around to make kobe or jordan FMVP unfortunately

[Soundwave]

The main thing with Shaq is you just need to know how to deal with his personality.

Kobe I don't think ever really got that, you had to "give" Shaq his leeway or at least let him feel like he was the big dog.

I think Jordan would handle it a little bit better, yes he could hound teammates, but I also got the sense he gave guys like Rodman a long leash too.

[AintNoSunshine]

Neither would, team implodes

[Soundwave]

I don't think you "ask" anyone to take a back seat, it settles itself on the court, and it kinda settles itself naturally -- Shaq is a very poor free throw shooter and Jordan is probably the GOAT clutch player ... ergo it's pretty much a given who gets the ball in 4th quarter crunch situations.

Other than that, just give both 20-24 FG attempts a game.

The person who'd suffer really would be the third option, but in a scenario like this you could get away with having like a Robert Horry.

C - Shaq
PF - Rodman
SF - Horry
SG - Jordan
PG - Harper/Kerr

6th man: Kukoc

Would be perfect. Just surround those two guys with other players that don't necessarily need to get a lot of shots.

Jordan + Kobe is more problematic than Jordan + Shaq IMO.

[Milbuck]

Shaq...it'd be different if it was like 20-23 year old MJ.

MJ at his peak, no question he's the #1.

[Soundwave]

Kobe took more shots than Shaq in 2001 and 2002, so even there Shaq did at least show (a gruding) willingness to let someone else shoot more.

I don't think it would be a big issue. They'd dominate.

If anything I think some of Jordan's defensive intensity might just rub off onto Shaq (how scary would that be?).

The main problem with Kobe - Shaq was really their personalities did not fit. Kobe was a reclusive, aloof type of guy, Shaq took offence to that.

Jordan was more open and social, would joke around with O'Neal a lot even at the All-Star games.

I could be wrong but I don't think Kobe hung out with any of the Lakers in the off-season, Jordan would have Pippen and Harper would all have breakfast together and then go train together.

[JT123]

Shaq would always be first option, Jordan or no Jordan.

[Dragonyeuw]

Shouldn't it depend on the matchup, who has the greater advantage on any given night? I mean with two GOAT-level offensive options it seems whichever player can better exploit his matchups on any given night should take the lead. As someone else said, the hierarchy should pretty much figure itself out on the court.

Generally speaking though, you should always go with the dominant bigman and work inside-out.

[ralph_i_el]

Most cars have two front seats bro

[riseagainst]

Most cars have two front seats bro

only 1 driver

[Soundwave]

In a technical sense Shaq actually was the no.2 option in 2001 and 2002 ... Kobe was no.1 on the Lakers for shots.

The other thing is even Shaq would agree he shouldn't be to go to guy in the 4th quarter/close games. Poor free throw shooting and the lack of a go to post move outside of the dunk kinda sealed that deal.

MJ + Shaq would work great IMO, the main problem with Shaq + Kobe was always that their personalities did not mesh.

I think Jordan would rub off positively on Shaq actually, he'd encourage him to play better D and stay in better shape. Shaq-Kobe's relationship was pretty much dead by 2003.

As long as MJ has the ball in his hands in 4th quarter and getting about equal amounts of FGs to Kobe, I don't see the issue.

Kobe averaged 21.9 FGA with Shaq from 2001-2003.

Jordan averaged 23.6 FGA during the first threepeat (largely buoyed by having to shoot more in 92-93, something MJ himself did not like doing but the team wasn't playing as well) and 22.9 in the second threepeat.

Not a big difference. If Jordan + Shaq are basically OK with taking 1 less FGA per game in exchange for winning probably 8+ titles together it would work fine.

[VIntageNOvel]

In reality, Shaq would win FMVP, those rebounding stat, FG etc, its unfair to compare it to perimeter player (even though its the goat)

but if im a coach, i would tell him to put his fat ass behind MJ

[Kblaze8855]

In a technical sense Shaq actually was the no.2 option in 2001 and 2002 ... Kobe was no.1 on the Lakers for shots.

Shaq was taking 5 more FTs a game and many of those shots don't factor into FGAs. And Shaq would also get fouled on the catch at times without shooting...just to not concede the dunk. And often Shaq would be played through and simply pass out to his shooters. He was given the ball.....the team reacts....he passes. Doesn't mean he wasn't first option on those plays...it means the first option passed when it made sense to do so.

You aren't only the first option in a set when you shoot the ball.

[DJ Leon Smith]

In a technical sense Shaq actually was the no.2 option in 2001 and 2002.

Nope in zero sense Shaq was the #2 option in 2001 and 2002.

[Mr Exlax]

jordan takes a back seat to

- prime wilt

- prime shaq

- prime kareem


its stupid to argue against it. no shame in it cause a big man is technically a more efficient option if they can average over 30ppg without disrupting the offense.

a guy like jordan can be a better player. but he isnt the more suitable option.


This might be the only time I ever agree with something you post.

[Mr Exlax]

Shaq was taking 5 more FTs a game and many of those shots don't factor into FGAs. And Shaq would also get fouled on the catch at times without shooting...just to not concede the dunk. And often Shaq would be played through and simply pass out to his shooters. He was given the ball.....the team reacts....he passes. Doesn't mean he wasn't first option on those plays...it means the first option passed when it made sense to do so.

You aren't only the first option in a set when you shoot the ball.


You're talking to people who don't play or fully understand basketball. I agree with that post 100%

[Soundwave]

Nope in zero sense Shaq was the #2 option in 2001 and 2002.

In terms of shots he was. Kobe was shooting more that time.

MJ would be just fine with that number of shots + the ball in his hands in crunch time.

No real point in any real disagreements.

The issues with Kobe-Shaq really boiled down to their off-court personalities.

Kobe wasn't close with any of the Lakers really, I remember reading the Lakers would have things like barbeques in the summer and pretty much everyone would show up except Kobe :lol

His personality and Shaq's personality was always going to be like oil and water mixing. MJ can be hard on teammates but he wasn't as anti-social and actually appreciated other guys taking the limelight/reporters away from him (ala Rodman).

[NBAplayoffs2001]

In terms of shots he was. Kobe was shooting more that time.

MJ would be just fine with that number of shots + the ball in his hands in crunch time.

No real point in any real disagreements.

The issues with Kobe-Shaq really boiled down to their off-court personalities.

Kobe wasn't close with any of the Lakers really, I remember reading the Lakers would have things like barbeques in the summer and pretty much everyone would show up except Kobe :lol

His personality and Shaq's personality was always going to be like oil and water mixing. MJ can be hard on teammates but he wasn't as anti-social and actually appreciated other guys taking the limelight/reporters away from him (ala Rodman).

I don't understand how Kobe was a fan of the Lakers growing up. However when he played with them he always wanted to be secluded from everything? Was a huge Magic fan growing up and was literally his alter ego :rolleyes:

[mehyaM24]

shaq from 2000-2002 is the greatest player ever. any non-big is taking a backseat to him. lebron would probably be the only with an outside chance of stealing a finals mvp from him (impacts the game besides scoring ala kobe/jordan).

[JT123]

Shaq was taking 5 more FTs a game and many of those shots don't factor into FGAs. And Shaq would also get fouled on the catch at times without shooting...just to not concede the dunk. And often Shaq would be played through and simply pass out to his shooters. He was given the ball.....the team reacts....he passes. Doesn't mean he wasn't first option on those plays...it means the first option passed when it made sense to do so.

You aren't only the first option in a set when you shoot the ball.
Kblaze dropping knowledge on these fools! :bowdown:

[NBAplayoffs2001]

shaq from 2000-2002 is the greatest player ever. any non-big is taking a backseat to him. lebron would probably be the only with an outside chance of stealing a finals mvp from him (impacts the game besides scoring ala kobe/jordan).

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

thanks for the laugh.

[Soundwave]

Shaq was taking 5 more FTs a game and many of those shots don't factor into FGAs. And Shaq would also get fouled on the catch at times without shooting...just to not concede the dunk. And often Shaq would be played through and simply pass out to his shooters. He was given the ball.....the team reacts....he passes. Doesn't mean he wasn't first option on those plays...it means the first option passed when it made sense to do so.

You aren't only the first option in a set when you shoot the ball.

Kobe's FGAs are pretty much in line with Jordan's though.

I don't think MJ would have a problem with it.

Shaq just wants to be the class clown. So you let the class clown do his thing, let him be the alpha dog in the locker room, joke around with him, etc.

That's really what is was with Shaq. Kobe never really got that. You don't antagonize a player like that in the locker room.

When the game is on the line, the ball is in Jordan's hands, and MJ would be fine with that.

[JT123]

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

thanks for the laugh.
Too many L's in the LOL. Sometimes less is more. :cheers:

[mehyaM24]

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
thanks for the laugh..
?

[NBAplayoffs2001]

.
?

you think that LeBron would steal a fMVP over Shaq... Jordan would. Kobe/LeBron can dream about doing that.

[mehyaM24]

you think that LeBron would steal a fMVP over Shaq.

would =/= could

i think that he COULD, because unlike most of the generic and modern perimeter players, lebron brings everything to the table.

like i said, its an outside shot, especially if lebron was consistently feeding shaq and finding him clean looks at the basket.

as scary as this may sound, shaq could have been even MORE dominant playing alongside lebron.

[r0drig0lac]

1- MJ
2- anyone