95 Rockets vs. 01 Lakers

[SpecialQue]

Who do you pick?

[kennethgriffin]

prime shaq > prime hakeem
2001 kobe > any version of drexler
phil > rudy t
15-1 > whatever that team had ( i guarantee it due to 15-1 being untouchable )

no brainer

kobe/shaq = 60ppg, 20rpg, 10apg combined

most dominant 1/2 punch in history

[Eric Cartman]

Who do you pick?

Shaq owned Hakeem in their first finals matchup.

01 Shaq would've borderline raped him unto oblivion.

Plus Kobe would be the second best player in that series by a considerable margin.

[Milbuck]

2001 Lakers...

Shaq was just too good. He was able to hang with Hakeem early in his career...peak Shaq has the edge, clearly.

2001 Kobe was already a capable #1 on any team...trashed the WC that year for 32/7/6/2/1 on 58% TS, and especially Duncan's Spurs for 33/7/7/2/1 on 57% TS in the conference finals..no one on Houston's perimeter comes close.

[SouBeachTalents]

Don't see almost anyone who's going to pick the Rockets in this one

[millwad]

Shaq owned Hakeem in their first finals matchup.

01 Shaq would've borderline raped him unto oblivion.

Plus Kobe would be the second best player in that series by a considerable margin.

That's so much nonsense that it's not even funny.

Olajuwon clearly outplayed Shaq in 2 out of 4 games in the '95 finals, Shaq got the best of Olajuwon in game 1 but after that he had one game where it's a tie at best for Shaq.

Claiming that Shaq owned Olajuwon is just a pure lie and proves that you're totally clueless. Shaq was young and wasn't experienced which may be the reason why he often during the series was in foul trouble and Shaq also had the highest turnover average among all centers in NBA finals history in that series, he was a turnover machine.

[millwad]

You guys are definitely overrating the '01 Lakers.

First of all, they faced weak competition, the Rockets played against better competition and Olajuwon faced way tougher opponents on the center position.

While Olajuwon outplayed prime Robinson and a very good Shaq, Shaq outplayed 34 year old Mutombo, old ass Robinson and Divac. And not only did the the Lakers face bad centers, they also faced pretty bad teams, no teams over 60 wins.

And don't underrate the '95 version of Shaq, he was probably a harder match-up for Olajuwon than what the 2001 version would be, much faster and more athletic.

[LoneyROY7]

Lakers in 5, maybe 6.

Hakeem isn't going to shut down the '01 version of Shaq.

[SouBeachTalents]

You guys are definitely overrating the '01 Lakers.

First of all, they faced weak competition, the Rockets played against better competition and Olajuwon faced way tougher opponents on the center position.

While Olajuwon outplayed prime Robinson and a very good Shaq, Shaq outplayed 34 year old Mutombo, old ass Robinson and Divac. And not only did the the Lakers face bad centers, they also faced pretty bad teams, no teams over 60 wins.

And don't underrate the '95 version of Shaq, he was probably a harder match-up for Olajuwon than what the 2001 version would be, much faster and more athletic.

The Rockets played better competition, but I don't see how you can argue a team that won 9 less games in the regular season, lost 7 times in the playoffs, while facing elimination 5 times, was better than a team that lost ONE game all postseason, in OT no less

[MC Gusto]

01 Lakers. Shaq's elbows >>>> The Dream Shake.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Shaq is being overrated in this thread. At best, you can give him a slight edge--Hakeem's '95 postseason run ranks among the best in NBA history.

The 2001 Lakers have the edge overall though. Shaq and Kobe playing at bonkers levels is too much for most opponents.

[millwad]

The Rockets played better competition, but I don't see how you can argue a team that won 9 less games in the regular season, lost 7 times in the playoffs, while facing elimination 5 times, was better than a team that lost ONE game all postseason, in OT no less

It's called competition, the Rockets faced much better competition.

In the first round they beat a 60 win team in the Jazz, a team with prime Stockton and Malone.

In the 2nd round they beat a 59 win team in the Suns, a team with Barkley and KJ.

In the 3rd round Olajuwon destroyed MVP Robinson like no MVP has been beaten before, the Spurs won 62 games that season.

In the finals they faced the Magic, the same team that gave Jordan his only playoffs series loss in the 90's, a team with Penny, Shaq and Grant.

[millwad]

Shaq is getting overrated for his '01 run, Lakers faced weak competition and Shaq faced weak competition at the center position as well.

Beating Divac, old ass Robinson, old ass Sabonis and old ass Dikembe is not really a biggie.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Shaq is getting overrated for his '01 run, Lakers faced weak competition and Shaq faced weak competition at the center position as well.

Beating Divac, old ass Robinson, old ass Sabonis and old ass Dikembe is not really a biggie.

Nice spin--the 2001 Lakers (along with the 1995 Rockets) are one of the few teams in history to beat four 50 win teams en route to a title. Four 50-win teams and they smoked them all.

The Rocket's competition was tougher, but not tough enough to justify how perilously close they came to getting bounced in the first and second rounds. They were rather fortunate, actually.

[SouBeachTalents]

Shaq is getting overrated for his '01 run, Lakers faced weak competition and Shaq faced weak competition at the center position as well.

Beating Divac, old ass Robinson, old ass Sabonis and old ass Dikembe is not really a biggie.

You're underselling the shit out of Shaq's competition, making it out to be like he beat no good players. Robinson finished in the top 10 in MVP voting that year, while Mutombo won DPOY and made the All-NBA 2nd team. Sabonis & Divac are far from scrubs either

[zoom17]

01 Lakers.

[ArbitraryWater]

Nice spin--the 2001 Lakers (along with the 1995 Rockets) are one of the few teams in history to beat four 50 win teams en route to a title. Four 50-win teams and they smoked them all.

The Rocket's competition was tougher, but not tough enough to justify how perilously close they came to getting bounced in the first and second rounds. They were rather fortunate, actually.

Ohh Kobe stans with their "records" again... Records would also lead you to believe the 2008-2010 competition was superior than 2012-2014... Different times & Teams.

2001 consisted of the broken down Blazers, catching the Kings right before their Peak, and a Spurs Team that was all Duncan and nothing else. (Similar to LeBron, carrying a Team to great regular season success, but come Playoff time the cast gets exposed.)




BTW: 2001 Lakers in 5 or 6

[millwad]

You're underselling the shit out of Shaq's competition, making it out to be like he beat no good players. Robinson finished in the top 10 in MVP voting that year, while Mutombo won DPOY and made the All-NBA 2nd team. Sabonis & Divac are far from scrubs either

Put a 36 year old Sabonis, Divac and a 34 year old Mutombo in the '95 season and they'd be way behind the likes of:

Olajuwon
Shaq
Ewing
Robinson
Mourning


Then you have bigs like Divac, Mutombo, Coleman, Smits, Radja, Willis etc..


Sabonis was busted up in '01, he averaged 10 points on 48% shooting while grabbing 5 rebounds per game.

Divac in '95 was even a better player then what he was in '01, by that time he had slowed down and he averaged 12 points on 48% shooting and 8 rebounds per game.

Then we have Mutombo who was 34 and who only played played 26 games for Philly before the playoffs. Mutombo averged 12 points on 50% shooting while grabbing 12 rebounds per game.

That is weak competition if anything.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Ohh Kobe stans with their "records" again... Records would also lead you to believe the 2008-2010 competition was superior than 2012-2014... Different times & Teams.

2001 consisted of the broken down Blazers, catching the Kings right before their Peak, and a Spurs Team that was all Duncan and nothing else. (Similar to LeBron, carrying a Team to great regular season success, but come Playoff time the cast gets exposed.)




BTW: 2001 Lakers in 5 or 6

A bunch of bullshit excuses, what else is new? The Heat's top conference opponent during their reign was the George/Hibbert Pacers, their competition was a joke compared to what the 2001 and 2008-2010 Lakers faced.

2001 Lakers in 6.

[ArbitraryWater]

Thing is, they were still the League's best Team... Put the 08-10 Lakers in the 2014 West, they would just be another contender among Spurs/Thunder/Clippers/Warriors..

[Mr Exlax]

I think the Lakers. Hakeem and Shaq would be a wash. Prime Shaq is unstoppable, but Prime Hakeem is unstoppable by Shaq at least. Then there's Kobe to put them over the top.

[millwad]

I think the Lakers. Hakeem and Shaq would be a wash. Prime Shaq is unstoppable, but Prime Hakeem is unstoppable by Shaq at least. Then there's Kobe to put them over the top.

Kobe in '01 is obviously better than what Drexler was in '95 but Rockets has an edge when it comes to the rest of the roster.

'95 version of Horry was easily better than Grant and his '01 version.
Fox was slightly better than Elie.
The combo of Smith and Cassell is better than Fisher and Shaw.

And one thing is sure, no team the Lakers faced would beat the '95 Rockets.

[Real14]

:biggums:

[Mr Exlax]

Kobe in '01 is obviously better than what Drexler was in '95 but Rockets has an edge when it comes to the rest of the roster.

'95 version of Horry was easily better than Grant and his '01 version.
Fox was slightly better than Elie.
The combo of Smith and Cassell is better than Fisher and Shaw.

And one thing is sure, no team the Lakers faced would beat the '95 Rockets.

You might be right, but fuhk you anyway nikka

[millwad]

You might be right, but fuhk you anyway nikka

Ok.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Ohh Kobe stans with their "records" again... Records would also lead you to believe the 2008-2010 competition was superior than 2012-2014... Different times & Teams.

2001 consisted of the broken down Blazers, catching the Kings right before their Peak, and a Spurs Team that was all Duncan and nothing else. (Similar to LeBron, carrying a Team to great regular season success, but come Playoff time the cast gets exposed.)




BTW: 2001 Lakers in 5 or 6

Trying way too hard.

[Mr Exlax]

Ok.

Shit I thought it said Millbuck. I'm drunk.

[fsvr54]

Lakers in 5, maybe 6.

Hakeem isn't going to shut down the '01 version of Shaq.

Shaq ain't shutting down Hakeem either though.

[SexSymbol]

Olajuwon would probably outplay shaq or be at least equal to him
Meanwhile Kobe would destroy Drexler.
Rest are irrelevant

[ILLsmak]

You guys are definitely overrating the '01 Lakers.

First of all, they faced weak competition, the Rockets played against better competition and Olajuwon faced way tougher opponents on the center position.

While Olajuwon outplayed prime Robinson and a very good Shaq, Shaq outplayed 34 year old Mutombo, old ass Robinson and Divac. And not only did the the Lakers face bad centers, they also faced pretty bad teams, no teams over 60 wins.

And don't underrate the '95 version of Shaq, he was probably a harder match-up for Olajuwon than what the 2001 version would be, much faster and more athletic.

yabut tons of teams have faced weak comp. Look at the Heat. They even lost to 'weak comp.'

The 15-1 Lakers are one insane fluke game away from being perfect. Now, does that mean they were the GOAT team... I don't think so. Do they beat 95 Rockets? Who knows...

but in terms of that accomplishment, it's like winning 70 games to me.

Also: Shaq himself said he took it easy on Hakeem in 95, physically. If the refs let Shaq play vs him like he did vs Mutombo, it would get ugly.

-Smak

[SouBeachTalents]

yabut tons of teams have faced weak comp. Look at the Heat. They even lost to 'weak comp.'

The 15-1 Lakers are one insane fluke game away from being perfect. Now, does that mean they were the GOAT team... I don't think so. Do they beat 95 Rockets? Who knows...

but in terms of that accomplishment, it's like winning 70 games to me.

Also: Shaq himself said he took it easy on Hakeem in 95, physically. If the refs let Shaq play vs him like he did vs Mutombo, it would get ugly.

-Smak

Exactly, plus the Rockets were down 2-1 in the first round & 3-1 in the conference semis. They lost 7 games in the playoffs, and if not for Nick Anderson's choke job, it would have been at least 8

[SexSymbol]

Ohh Kobe stans with their "records" again... Records would also lead you to believe the 2008-2010 competition was superior than 2012-2014... Different times & Teams.

2001 consisted of the broken down Blazers, catching the Kings right before their Peak, and a Spurs Team that was all Duncan and nothing else. (Similar to LeBron, carrying a Team to great regular season success, but come Playoff time the cast gets exposed.)




BTW: 2001 Lakers in 5 or 6

such an idiot

[LAZERUSS]

Laker sweep.

And a PRIME Shaq just crushes Hakeem.

If Mutombo couldn't stop Shaq, a weak ass Hakeem and his swarming teammates would have no chance...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ3FXLyNFew

[millwad]

Laker sweep.

And a PRIME Shaq just crushes Hakeem.

If Mutombo couldn't stop Shaq, a weak ass Hakeem and his swarming teammates would have no chance...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ3FXLyNFew

Haha, come on.
Mutombo was much weaker than Hakeem and this is not like when Kareem absolutely destroyed and crushed Wilt while averaging 40 points on 50% shooting in '72.

[LAZERUSS]

Haha, come on.
Mutombo was much weaker than Hakeem and this is not like when Kareem absolutely destroyed and crushed Wilt while averaging 40 points on 50% shooting in '72.

A PEAK Kareem shot .464 in his 28 career H2H's against Wilt, 27 of which Chamberlain was post-surgery.

A 37-42 year old KAJ< WAY past his prime, outscored a 23-26 year Hakeem, and outshot him by a .607 to .512 margin. And a 38-39 year old KAJ just ANNIHILATED a 23-24 year old Hakeem. 32 ppg on a .621 FG%, which included THREE games of 40+.

It was so embarrassing that the Rockets moved Sampson as the primary defender on a 39 year old Kareem in the WCF's. Hakeem NEVER could guard a near retired Kareem. One can only wonder how many 60+ point games a 23-25 year old Kareem would have hung on a PRIME Hakeem.

[LAZERUSS]

BTW, Shaq outplayed Hakeem in THREE games of the '95 Finals. He wiped the floor with Hakeem in game one, and easily outplayed him in game three. In game two, Hakeem outplayed him in the first half, but Shaq just downright crushed him in the second half. Hakeem was holding on for dear life in the second half of that game. The only game in which Hakeem outplayed Shaq was in game four.

And,by that time Shaq had given up. He had badly outplayed Hakeem, but Hakeem's teammates just overwhelmed his.

[Smoke117]

You guys are definitely overrating the '01 Lakers.

First of all, they faced weak competition, the Rockets played against better competition and Olajuwon faced way tougher opponents on the center position.

While Olajuwon outplayed prime Robinson and a very good Shaq, Shaq outplayed 34 year old Mutombo, old ass Robinson and Divac. And not only did the the Lakers face bad centers, they also faced pretty bad teams, no teams over 60 wins.

And don't underrate the '95 version of Shaq, he was probably a harder match-up for Olajuwon than what the 2001 version would be, much faster and more athletic.

Exactly. Why does everyone overlook that now? The Lakers didn't go through one great team in 01. They maybe faced one very good team at that...

[LAZERUSS]

Exactly. Why does everyone overlook that now? The Lakers didn't go through one great team in 01.

They SWEPT the 58-24 Spurs. In fact, they just annhilated them in the last two games of that series by margins of 111-72 and 111-82.

[LAZERUSS]

As a side-note, here were Hakeem's and Shaq's 94-95 TOTAL H2H numbers, covering their seven H2H games (three in the regular season, and the four in the Finals)...

Hakeem: 30.0 ppg, 11.0 rpg, 5.3 apg, .465 FG%
Shaq: 26.1 ppg, 13.6 rpg, 5.4 apg, and... a .608 FG%

This from a 22 year old Shaq, and going up against a PEAK Hakeem.

[millwad]

BTW, Shaq outplayed Hakeem in THREE games of the '95 Finals. He wiped the floor with Hakeem in game one, and easily outplayed him in game three. In game two, Hakeem outplayed him in the first half, but Shaq just downright crushed him in the second half. Hakeem was holding on for dear life in the second half of that game. The only game in which Hakeem outplayed Shaq was in game four.

And,by that time Shaq had given up. He had badly outplayed Hakeem, but Hakeem's teammates just overwhelmed his.

Now you're just being a clown, this is why no one takes you seriously. First all those essays about Wilt, then when you got exposed over the fact that you never saw Wilt play and then all your alts., Jlauber.

And I just love how stupid you are and how much of a hypocrite you are. First of all, every media outlet, all the fans and Shaq himself said that Olajuwon outplayed Shaq in the '95 finals. Everyone but you because it fits your agenda.

It's a draw at best for Shaq in game 3, Olajuwon outrebounded Shaq, outscored Shaq, outassisted Shaq, outstole Shaq and he had 3 turnovers than Shaq. And Shaq choked in the end of the game with two easy misses close to the basket which gave the Rockets the edge.

Regarding game 2 you've been destroyed time after time, as a Wilt fan I understand that you love the statpadding Shaq did in the end of the game when the game was over but fact was that Olajuwon tore Shaq in to pieces in the first half while scoring 22 points. Orland was never even close to make it back to the game and Shaq only scored 10 points in the first half on shitty percentage. The fact that you want to give the edge to Shaq in a game where he sucked in the first half while giving up 22 points to Olajuwon is laughable. The game was never even close after that and Shaq's points came when the game was already over.

And game 4 was an easy win for Olajuwon and the Rockets, Olajuwon put up 35 points, 15 rebounds, 6 steals and 3 assists.

There's absolutely nothing that you can come up with that can give the edge to Shaq, absolutely nothing. If you want to make a fool out of yourself, keep doing so but you are getting destroyed every time.

[LAZERUSS]

Now you're just being a clown, this is why no one takes you seriously. First all those essays about Wilt, then when you got exposed over the fact that you never saw Wilt play and then all your alts., Jlauber.

And I just love how stupid you are and how much of a hypocrite you are. First of all, every media outlet, all the fans and Shaq himself said that Olajuwon outplayed Shaq in the '95 finals. Everyone but you because it fits your agenda.

It's a draw at best for Shaq in game 3, Olajuwon outrebounded Shaq, outscored Shaq, outassisted Shaq, outstole Shaq and he had 3 turnovers than Shaq. And Shaq choked in the end of the game with two easy misses close to the basket which gave the Rockets the edge.

Regarding game 2 you've been destroyed time after time, as a Wilt fan I understand that you love the statpadding Shaq did in the end of the game when the game was over but fact was that Olajuwon tore Shaq in to pieces in the first half while scoring 22 points. Orland was never even close to make it back to the game and Shaq only scored 10 points in the first half on shitty percentage. The fact that you want to give the edge to Shaq in a game where he sucked in the first half while giving up 22 points to Olajuwon is laughable. The game was never even close after that and Shaq's points came when the game was already over.

And game 4 was an easy win for Olajuwon and the Rockets, Olajuwon put up 35 points, 15 rebounds, 6 steals and 3 assists.

There's absolutely nothing that you can come up with that can give the edge to Shaq, absolutely nothing. If you want to make a fool out of yourself, keep doing so but you are getting destroyed every time.

Shaq crushed Hakeem in the second half of game two. In fact by the 4 minute mark of the 3rd quarter, the 23 point margin was down to 13. Again, it was Hakeem's TEAMMATES who saved his ass in that game, and in the series.

In game three, Hakeem nearly shot his team down the drain... 14-30 from the field, while Shaq shot his usual high efficiency against Olajuwon, 11-17.

Just how dominant were Hakeem's teammates?


Hakeem's TEAMMATES, collectively, had a considerably higher TS% in that series, than Hakeem, himself. So, those that favor this stat, had better prepared to explain that. Looks to me like Houston won that series DESPITE Hakeem.

Meanwhile, Shaq's TS% in that Finals was far greater than what his teammates gave him.

Hakeem shot 55-115 from the field, 1-1 from the arc, and 18-26 from the line.
His teammates shot 70-136 from 2pt range, 36-91 from the arc, and 77-97 from the line.

Shaq shot 44-74 from the field, and 24-42 from the line.
His teammates shot 78-156 from 2 pt range, 41-118 from the arc, and 37-47 from the line.

Using a TRUE TS%, Hakeem shot .508. His teammates collectively shot .589.

Shaq shot a TRUE TS% of .589. His teammates shot a collective .533.


Hell, Hakeem didn't even shoot the post-season NBA average in eFG% (.488 to the league average of .504.)




As for the REAL breakdown...Colts18...




I decided to rewatch the 1995 finals and chart each possession to see to how effective Shaq and Hakeem were on the court. A special shout out to Jordanbulls for providing the video of this series


Total:
Hakeem: 253 touches, 140 doubles (55.3%)
Shaq: 221 touches, 146 doubles (66.1%)

Here are their stats when they were guarded by each other:
Shaq 32-57 (56.1 FG%), 6-8 FT, 67.3 double teamed%, .578 TS%, 17 assists, 1 O-reb allowed to Hakeem
Hakeem: 31-75 (41.3 FG%), 9-13 FT, 60.2 double teamed%, .446 TS%, 8 assists, 3 O-reb allowed to Shaq

Shaq blocked 2 Hakeem shots, Hakeem blocked 0 Shaq shots. Hakeem did make a 3P on Shaq. Hakeem guarded Shaq on 73.3% of the touches he had, while Shaq guarded Hakeem on 69.6% of his touches. Hakeem got a lot more fastbreak touches than Shaq so in the halfcourt, they guarded each other about even.

When they weren't being guarded by each other, Shaq was being guarded by Charles Jones and Hakeem by Horace Grant.

Shaq vs Jones: 7-11 FG (63.6 FG%), 35 doubles in 52 touches (67.3%), 2 assists
Hakeem vs Grant: 13-24 (54.2 FG%), 33 double teams in 58 touches (56.9%), 6 assists

Jump shots:
Hakeem: 27-62 (43.5%)
Shaq: 2-7 (28.6%)

The vast majority of Shaq's shots were close range hooks.

Dunks:
Hakeem: 1 dunk (vs grant)
Shaq: 9 dunks (2 of them were in Hakeem's face)

Fouls drawn on offense:
Shaq: 37 (17 on Hakeem)
Hakeem: 21 (9 on Shaq)

Hakeem did draw 4 Shaq charges.

Shaq was called for 5 travels, Hakeem 2.

Plus/Minus (Houston outscored Orlando by 28 points total):
On court:
Shaq: -12 in 180 minutes
Hakeem: +17 in 179 minutes

Off court:
Shaq: -16 in 16:37 of action (Houston scored 133 points per 48 in the minutes Shaq missed)
Hakeem: +11 in 17:11 of action (134 points per 48 in the minutes he was off the court)

Interestingly enough, in 2 of the games, the Magic outscored the Rockets when Shaq was on the court. The magic were -8 in about 9 minutes of action without Shaq in game (lost by just 2 points). In game 3, they were -4 in the minutes Shaq missed in a game where they lost by 3 points. In game 1, the Rockets outscored the magic by 9 in the minutes Hakeem missed, but they were outscored by a combined 4 points in games 3 and 4 without Hakeem.

Observations:
-Orlando was for some reason really committed to doubling Hakeem in game 1. They were throwing a lot of hard doubles. Hakeem had 5 assists in that game, all of them 3 pointers, 4 came off of doubles (one was a triple team). I'm guessing it was a response to Hakeem's series vs Robinson. For the rest of the series, Orlando didn't double Hakeem as much and they threw softer doubles.

-Hakeem made like 5 or 6 baskets in transition to Shaq's 1 or so. So while Shaq didn't get credit for giving up those buckets since he didn't guard, a few of those times Shaq was slow in transition. Shaq got about 3 or shots

-One of the commentators compared Horry to Scottie Pippen and Walton took the comment seriously. They are vastly different players IMO

-I'm not sure why Penny wasn't more aggressive. Kenny Smith couldn't guard him at all. When Penny did drive to the basket, he made a few shots over Hakeem.

-Drexler was the man in this series. He really wanted to get his first title badly. For some reason, people rarely talk about him despite him getting more WS than Hakeem in that playoff run

-It's fashionable these days to **** on Hakeem's cast in 94, but this cast was much better than that one. The guards outplayed Orlando's guards. Horry played really well. The 3P shooters benefited a lot from the shortened 3P line.

-Contrary to popular belief, handchecking wasn't allowed in 95. The refs called like 2 handchecking fouls in this series

-I'm so thankful the NBA got rid of the illegal defense. The refs called like 5 of them in each game. It destroyed the flow of the game and limited the ways you could double team a player.

Hakeem was HELPLESS when defending Shaq one-on-one...

[T_L_P]

They SWEPT the 58-24 Spurs. In fact, they just annhilated them in the last two games of that series by margins of 111-72 and 111-82.

Spurs were pretty without Derek Anderson, who was without doubt their third best player, and who many considered the second option on offense.

This was their CF lineup

Duncan
Robinson (35)
Daniels
Ferry (34)
Avery (35)
Elliott (post kidney surgery)
Samaki Walker
Porter (37)
Malik Rose
Kerr (35)

That's a sweep and then some, especially considering how great that Lakers team was. I actually remember at one point in the second half of game 2, Duncan had 30-something and Daniels had about 15. Nobody else even had 5. :roll:

Anyway, to answer the OP: Lakers would win.

[millwad]

As a side-note, here were Hakeem's and Shaq's 94-95 TOTAL H2H numbers, covering their seven H2H games (three in the regular season, and the four in the Finals)...

Hakeem: 30.0 ppg, 11.0 rpg, 5.3 apg, .465 FG%
Shaq: 26.1 ppg, 13.6 rpg, 5.4 apg, and... a .608 FG%

This from a 22 year old Shaq, and going up against a PEAK Hakeem.


Haha, you're the same clown who claims that Kareem got murdered in '72 by Wilt. Wilt got absolutely slaughtered, Kareem averaged 40% on 50% shooting against prime defensive Wilt in the regular season.

And in the playoffs Kareem outscored Wilt with 23 points per game while shooting the ball with a better FG%, while shooting FT's twice as good and while outassisting Wilt.

That's pure abuse and you still want to give the edge to Wilt based on two articles, you didn't even post the stats in the beginning when you claimed that Kareem got "murdered" (your own words) and it was first when Fatal9 exposed your bogus that you started with the "stats don't matter, I have 2 articles that proves my point".

So now we have a series from '95, all media, all fans, all players and Shaq himself gave the edge to Hakeem and here you are acting like you know anything. I was the one who clowned you when you even couldn't break down one single game. You didn't even see the series, just like you didn't see Wilt play.

Your mom should have swallowed you, Jeff.

[LAZERUSS]

Spurs were pretty without Derek Anderson, who was without doubt their third best player, and who many considered the second option on offense.

This was their CF lineup

Duncan
Robinson (35)
Daniels
Ferry (34)
Avery (35)
Elliott (post kidney surgery)
Samaki Walker
Porter (37)
Malik Rose
Kerr (35)

That's a sweep and then some, especially considering how great that Lakers team was. I actually remember at one point in the second half of game 2, Duncan had 30-something and Daniels had about 15. Nobody else even had 5. :roll:

Anyway, to answer the OP: Lakers would win.

Duncan abused the Laker PFs throughout the Laker-Spurs H2H post-season series, but he always struggled mightily in the 4th quarters when Jackson would move Shaq on him.

[millwad]

Shaq crushed Hakeem in the second half of game two. In fact by the 4 minute mark of the 3rd quarter, the 23 point margin was down to 13. Again, it was Hakeem's TEAMMATES who saved his ass in that game, and in the series.

In game three, Hakeem nearly shot his team down the drain... 14-30 from the field, while Shaq shot his usual high efficiency against Olajuwon, 11-17.

Just how dominant were Hakeem's teammates?




As for the REAL breakdown...Colts18...



Hakeem was HELPLESS when defending Shaq one-on-one...

First of all, the fact that you had to copy and paste another guy's break down only confirms the fact that you didn't even see the series, what kind of clown would use another break-down than his/her own while trying to argue for it.

And what kind of bogus break-down would "miss" the fact that Shaq was in foul trouble all series long and that he had the highest turnover per game average among centers in NBA finals history? That is just laughable.

[Eric Cartman]

LAZERUSS putting bitches in their place :rockon:

[millwad]

Duncan abused the Laker PFs throughout the Laker-Spurs H2H post-season series, but he always struggled mightily in the 4th quarters when Jackson would move Shaq on him.

The same Shaq who let old ass Dikembe average average 17 points on 60% shooting in the playoffs? If a 34 year old Dikembe who was a limited offensive player could make 60% of his shots while averaging 17 points on Shaq, the '95 version of Olajuwon would do much more impressive things.

[millwad]

LAZERUS putting bitches in their place :rockon:

Yeah, putting your mother in her place while copying other peep's break downs because he is clueless himself.

[LAZERUSS]

Haha, you're the same clown who claims that Kareem got murdered in '72 by Wilt. Wilt got absolutely slaughtered, Kareem averaged 40% on 50% shooting against prime defensive Wilt in the regular season.

And in the playoffs Kareem outscored Wilt with 23 points per game while shooting the ball with a better FG%, while shooting FT's twice as good and while outassisting Wilt.

That's pure abuse and you still want to give the edge to Wilt based on two articles, you didn't even post the stats in the beginning when you claimed that Kareem got "murdered" (your own words) and it was first when Fatal9 exposed your bogus that you started with the "stats don't matter, I have 2 articles that proves my point".

So now we have a series from '95, all media, all fans, all players and Shaq himself gave the edge to Hakeem and here you are acting like you know anything. I was the one who clowned you when you even couldn't break down one single game. You didn't even see the series, just like you didn't see Wilt play.

Your mom should have swallowed you, Jeff.

Again, Chamberlain played 27 of his 28 H2H games against a PEAK KAJ, at ages 34-36, and on a surgically repaired knee. And he statistically outplayed him in their first 11 meetings, and then reduced a PEAK KAJ to a .457 shooter in the '72 WCF's, including a .414 FG% in the last four pivotal H2H games of that series. Then, in their six H2H's in Wilt's last season, he held KAJ to a .450 FG% (while shooting .737 himself), and in fact, even outscored him in one game, 24-21, while outshooting him 10-14 to 10-27.

What we never witnessed was an absolute PEAK Chamberlain against a peak Kareem. We do know, however, that a PRIME Chamberlain dominated several of the same centers that a PEAK Kareem would face, to a FAR greater extent than KAJ did.

As for Hakeem-Shaq. Shaq outplayed Hakeem over the course of the career H2H's by a solid margin, and a prime Shaq just slaughtered him.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=olajuha01&p2=onealsh01

Just a one-sided beatdown in all facets of the game...

[T_L_P]

Duncan abused the Laker PFs throughout the Laker-Spurs H2H post-season series, but he always struggled mightily in the 4th quarters when Jackson would move Shaq on him.

Okay...point? Duncan didn't have a good series at all against them in 01. Doesn't mean that team they put out there was very good.

[dubeta]

Prime Shaq + scrubs vs Prime Hakeem + scrubs :confusedshrug:

[LAZERUSS]

First of all, the fact that you had to copy and paste another guy's break down only confirms the fact that you didn't even see the series, what kind of clown would use another break-down than his/her own while trying to argue for it.

And what kind of bogus break-down would "miss" the fact that Shaq was in foul trouble all series long and that he had the highest turnover per game average among centers in NBA finals history? That is just laughable.



Shaq and Hakeem EACH committed 18 PF's in that series. And while Shaq had 21 TOs, Hakeem himself had 11. In virtually every other statistical breakdown, Shaq was more dominant. True, Hakeem outscored him, 33-28 ppg in that series, BUT, he took TEN more FGAs per game to do so. Shaq outrrebounded, outassisted, and even outblocked Hakeem, and he also outscored him from the FT line...all while just murdering him from the field, .595 to .483.

And a PRIME Shaq would have just crushed that peak Hakeem.

[millwad]

Again, Chamberlain played 27 of his 28 H2H games against a PEAK KAJ, at ages 34-36, and on a surgically repaired knee. And he statistically outplayed him in their first 11 meetings, and then reduced a PEAK KAJ to a .457 shooter in the '72 WCF's, including a .414 FG% in the last four pivotal H2H games of that series. Then, in their six H2H's in Wilt's last season, he held KAJ to a .450 FG% (while shooting .737 himself), and in fact, even outscored him in one game, 24-21, while outshooting him 10-14 to 10-27.

What we never witnessed was an absolute PEAK Chamberlain against a peak Kareem. We do know, however, that a PRIME Chamberlain dominated several of the same centers that a PEAK Kareem would face, to a FAR greater extent than KAJ did.

As for Hakeem-Shaq. Shaq outplayed Hakeem over the course of the career H2H's by a solid margin, and a prime Shaq just slaughtered him.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=olajuha01&p2=onealsh01

Just a one-sided beatdown in all facets of the game...

The beat down Wilt faced by Kareem in '72, was nothing like the beating old Hakeem recieved by Shaq.

Wilt got slaughtered in '72, Kareem averaged 40 points on 50% shooting. There's nothing you can come up with that justifies the fact that prime defensive Wilt got absolutely destroyed by Kareem.

And no one, not even yourself believes that Wilt got the best of Kareem in the '72 playoffs.

Kareem outscored Wilt with 23 points, he shot FT's twice as good and he outassisted Wilt. There's nothing you can say or come up with that will make anyone believe that Wilt didn't got destroyed. Wilt only won due to having much better teammates who covered up Wilt while he got outscored with 23 points per game on better FG%.

And there's nothing you can come up with regarding the '95 series, you couldn't even break it down yourself, you stole something from the internet. A so called break down that didn't even mention that Shaq was the most turnover center in NBA finals history that series.

ETHERED.

[millwad]

Shaq and Hakeem EACH committed 18 PF's in that series. And while Shaq had 21 TOs, Hakeem himself had 11. In virtually every other statistical breakdown, Shaq was more dominant. True, Hakeem outscored him, 33-28 ppg in that series, BUT, he took TEN more FGAs per game to do so. Shaq outrrebounded, outassisted, and even outblocked Hakeem, and he also outscored him from the FT line...all while just murdering him from the field, .595 to .483.

And a PRIME Shaq would have just crushed that peak Hakeem.

Now you're just proving even more that you didn't see the series, Shaq got some of his fouls early in games and had to sit out while the Magic had no big to go to.

And yes, Shaq averaged the most turnovers among all centers in NBA FINALS HISTORY, he turned it over at bad moments as well. Yet you never mentioned that while talking about the series, not even once, how come?

You just can't get away from this one, you have been destroyed to many times. Why do you suddenly stop trusting the media, the fans, the players and Shaq himself? You judge the whole 1972 WCF rape of Wilt based on two out of context articles but you just can't give Olajuwon the credit he is worthy of.

And if you would have seen the series you'd realize that Shaq was outplayed, that Shaq fouled in really bad periods, that Olajuwon got the best of Shaq in 2 games clearly and that Shaq was un-clutch. Shaq was inexperienced and it showed, he missed easy baskets in the end, he didn't get it done and I have breaked down the game perfectly for you.

Notice that you keep spamming about stats while I write about actual game events. You did not see the series, you didn't even know about Shaq's TO problems before I told you. You have even started new accounts on ISH to spam stupid stuff about Olajuwon, you're a clown.

[LAZERUSS]

The beat down Wilt faced by Kareem in '72, was nothing like the beating old Hakeem recieved by Shaq.

Wilt got slaughtered in '72, Kareem averaged 40 points on 50% shooting. There's nothing you can come up with that justifies the fact that prime defensive Wilt got absolutely destroyed by Kareem.

And no one, not even yourself believes that Wilt got the best of Kareem in the '72 playoffs.

Kareem outscored Wilt with 23 points, he shot FT's twice as good and he outassisted Wilt. There's nothing you can say or come up with that will make anyone believe that Wilt didn't got destroyed. Wilt only won due to having much better teammates who covered up Wilt while he got outscored with 23 points per game on better FG%.

And there's nothing you can come up with regarding the '95 series, you couldn't even break it down yourself, you stole something from the internet. A so called break down that didn't even mention that Shaq was the most turnover center in NBA finals history that series.

ETHERED.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

A 38-39 year old Kareem, in TEN STRAIGHT H2H's with a 23-24 Hakeem... 32 ppg on an unfathomable .621 FG%. Hell, a PEAK Kareem had ONE game, in his 28 H2H's with an OLD Wilt, in which he shot over 60% from the floor. In 23 career H2H's with Hakeem, a 38-42 year old KAJ had 12 in which he shot 60%+, and a staggering FOUR in which he shot over 70%! Again, in those 23 H2H's with Hakeem, a near-retired Kareem shot .607 overall.

A PEAK Kareem shot .464 in his 28 career H2H's with Wilt, 27 of which came when Wilt was 34-36, and playing on a surgically repaired knee.

Oh, and Kareem had a CAREER FG% of .559. He shot 10% LOWER against Wilt in his 28 H2H's with Chamberlain, and 5% HIGHER (at ages 38-42) against a 23-26 year old Hakeem.

Of course, Kareem could score at will against Hakeem at times, as well. He hung THREE games of 40+, including a 46 point game (again, on 70% shooting), and in only 37 minutes. Hakeem's coach was ripped afterwards for allowing the bloodshed, and in fact, put Sampson on KAJ in the WCF's.

[millwad]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

A 38-39 year old Kareem, in TEN STRAIGHT H2H's with a 23-24 Hakeem... 32 ppg on an unfathomable .621 FG%. Hell, a PEAK Kareem had ONE game, in his 28 H2H's with an OLD Wilt, in which he shot over 60% from the floor. In 23 career H2H's with Hakeem, a 38-42 year old KAJ had 12 in which he shot 60%+, and a staggering FOUR in which he shot over 70%! Again, in those 23 H2H's with Hakeem, a near-retired Kareem shot .607 overall.
.

This is exactly what I'm talking about, you cherry pick so much that it's not even funny. You're a miserable old fart who thinks you know anything but you get abused every single time.

We all know that Kareem had his way with Olajuwon in his rookie season and against Olajuwon as a 2nd year pro, that was 'til the playoffs started.

Olajuwon absolutely destroyed Kareem in the '86 playoffs, he destroyed every big the Lakers put on him and everyone knows it. And he did it as a 2nd year pro, he lead his team against the prior year's champs and against one of the best team's of all-time... as a 2nd year pro.

Keep spamming about regular season games, when it all counted the 2nd year pro Olajuwon destroyed Kareem and the Lakers.

Here's a video since you prob never saw it as everything else you claim you know anything about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6xJBnNIfiQ

[houston]

01 Lakers wins this

[deja vu]

Hakeem would make Shaq work on defense. I think the center battle would be close.

I can see this going 7 games.

[Thorn]

this thread turning from 95 Rockets vs 01 Lakers to mostly Wilt vs Kareem :roll: :roll: :roll:

[eliteballer]

Epic matchup.

Shaq and Hakeem aren't destroying one another even if one outplays the other.

Rockets have a more talented supporting cast.

I think the deciding factor here is that at this point Kobe was better than Drexler ever was, let alone a declining Glyde.