Wilt's Last Fully Healthy Game

[LAZERUSS]

In game #9 on the 69-70 schedule, at the 5 minute mark of the third period, and on a play without contact, Wilt shredded his knee. At that moment he had scored 33 points in 28 minutes, and on 13-14 from the field (to go along with 15 rebounds.) In a close game he was certainly on his way to yet another 40+ point game, and perhaps even a 50 point game.

As it was, with those numbers in limited minutes, he was leading the league in scoring, at 32.2 ppg, to go along with 20 rpg and a .579 FG%.

His new coach, Joe Mullaney, was essentially hired to re-energize a Wilt, whose previous coach, Butch "the Butcher" Van Breda Kolff, had completely mis-handled. Mullaney's first order of business was to make Wilt the focal point of the Laker offense. And Chamberlain enthusiastically responded by leading the league in scoring in those first nine games.

And that scoring was not inflated by one huge game, either. Wilt had put up games of 33, 35, 37, 38, 42, and 43 points. Oh, and in his first H2H with rookie Lew Alcindor, he easily outplayed him, outscoring him, 25-23; outrebounding him, 25-20; outassisting him, 5-2; outblocking him, 3-2; and outshooting him from the field, 9-14 to 9-21.

Included in those games were a 37 point game against 7-0 270 Tom Boerwinkle; a 38 point game (on 16-26 shooting) against reigning MVP Wes Unseld; a 42 point game against a peak Bob Rule (go ahead, look him up); and a 43 point game against Connie Dierking.

In the game against Rule, Wilt outscored him, 43-19. This in perhaps Rule's greatest season (24.6 ppg, although he would start out the 70-71 season averaging 29.8 ppg before suffering an injury that would ultimately end his career a couple of years later.) It was not Wilt's highest scoring game against Rule, though. In the 67-68 season Chamberlain hung games of 47, 52, and 53 points on rookie Rule (who averaged 18.1 ppg on a .489 FG%.) In the 47 point game, Wilt outscored Rule, 47-20, grabbed 26 rebounds, and shot 19-24 from the field. In his 52 point game, Chamberlain outscored Rule, 52-29, grabbed 37 rebounds, and shot 22-29 from the floor. And in his 53 point game, he outscored Rule, 53-16, grabbed 38 rebounds, and shot 20-23 from the field. Keep in mind that in Wilt's 67-68 season, he was no longer looking to put up huge games, either. This was a Chamberlain who would "only" average 24.3 ppg.

It is worth noting that Kareem also had two 50+ games against Rule, albeit, one was after Rule's injury, and in which he was just a shell (a 53 point game with 13 rebounds on 18-28 shooting.) In the one game against a prime Rule, Kareem outscored him, 51-33, with 8 rebounds, and on 18-25 shooting.


As noted earlier, Wilt's high game in his short-lived 69-70 season, was 43 points, and against Connie Dierking. Of course, Wilt had many 40+ point games against Dierking in his career, including games in which he outscored Dierking by 59-4 60-35, and 63-11. In fact, just the year before (68-69), Chamberlain hung that 60 point game.

Again, it is worth noting that Kareem would face Dierking multiple times in his career (in fact, a fading Dierking), and he had one 40+ point game against him (41 to be exact.)

None of this is meant to disparage Kareem, either, but rather to provide some concrete evidence as to just how dominant Wilt was in his career...even as late as his 11th season in the league. Here was a Wilt that was certainly no longer in his prime (62-68), but still capable of leading the league in scoring (and again, in his '69 season, at age 32, he hung games of 60 and 66 points.)

Chamberlain's 69-70 season is a huge "what if" question mark in his career. His new coach had focused the Laker offense around Wilt (BTW, West was averaging 30.8 ppg when Wilt blew out his knee...and would lead the league in scoring at 31.2), and it is certainly a possibility that Wilt would have won a scoring title, as well as yet another rebounding and FG% title. He was not only leading the league in scoring, but he was averaging 20.0 rpg, in a season in which Elvin Hayes would lead the league at 16.9 rpg; and Wilt was shooting .579 from the field, in a year in which Johnny Green would lead the league at .559. BTW, rookie Kareem averaged 28.8 ppg, 14.5 rpg, and shot .518 from the field (albeit, in his post-season he put up a career high 35.2 ppg, and with 16.8 rpg, and on a .568 FG%.

In any case, for those that always reference Wilt's 50.4 ppg, it is fascinating that in his 11th year in the league, he was still capable of winning a scoring title, and in a league which had West, Oscar, Hayes, Cunningham, Havlicek, and Kareem.

Of course we will never know how that season would have played out, but if his very last game on a healthy knee was any indication, it would likely have been a season in which few, if any, aside from himself, have ever had.

[Soundwave]

Is there any video from this game?

[LAZERUSS]

Is there any video from this game?

Not that I am aware of, but here were a couple of interesting posts on the topic...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8824807&postcount=25

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8825003&postcount=26

[Soundwave]

Not that I am aware of, but here were a couple of interesting posts on the topic...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8824807&postcount=25

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8825003&postcount=26

No offense but how many games of Wilt have you actually seen? From start to finish?

[Asukal]

Wilt's next excuse, injuries... :rolleyes:

"Oh he got injured so let's give him a pass and crown him the GOAT because my gawd can you imagine the devastation an uninjured Wilt will unleash? My gawd!" :oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

No offense but how many games of Wilt have you actually seen? From start to finish?

Quite a few, including many of the Russell-Wilt H2H's.

[Asukal]

Quite a few, including many of the Russell-Wilt H2H's.

Serious question, why did you go from saying the 60s sucked a couple years back to proclaiming Wilt as the GOAT? What made you change your mind?

[Jameerthefear]

Stop trolling. I'm the Wilt expert here and I know that this was NOT his last fully healthy game.

[Soundwave]

Quite a few, including many of the Russell-Wilt H2H's.

Can you link to any of these games?

[LAZERUSS]

Serious question, why did you go from saying the 60s sucked a couple years back to proclaiming Wilt as the GOAT? What made you change your mind?

Reality and perspective. And it wasn't a couple of years ago, either, but nearly 10.

Kareem played in the 60's. He also played four years in the Wilt-era. Never came close to putting up Wilt's numbers, and in fact, never approached Wilt's domination of the very same centers that a prime Wilt had faced.

And yet a 39 year old Kareem was wiping the floor with a 24 year old Hakeem, and in the same week in which he plastered Hakeem with a 46 point game, he murdered Patrick Ewing, outscoring him 40-9, and outshooting him 15-22 to 3-17.

You can also argue that the best players of the 60's, like Barry, Thurmond, West, Hayes, Kareem, and yes, Wilt, were still dominating in the 70's...in leagues that had Walton, McAdoo, Lanier, Gilmore, Dr. J, Moses, and other's...and some of those players, including Kareem, would go on to be the best players of the 80's. You can carry that argument right into the current NBA.

[LAZERUSS]

Can you link to any of these games?

Many from '63-64 on...

Quite a few of them were televised on Sundays, as well as some of their playoff H2H's.

I never came away thinking that Russell had outplayed him, either. Granted, I didn't see nearly all of their H2H's, but in the one's that I did, Wilt either outplayed Russell, or downright demolished him.

[navy]

So Kareem is basically your barometer for the NBA big men? Makes sense considering his longevity.

Did he change his game much in the span though?

[Asukal]

Reality and perspective. And it wasn't a couple of years ago, either, but nearly 10.

Kareem played in the 60's. He also played four years in the Wilt-era. Never came close to putting up Wilt's numbers, and in fact, never approached Wilt's domination of the very same centers that a prime Wilt had faced.

And yet a 39 year old Kareem was wiping the floor with a 24 year old Hakeem, and in the same week in which he plastered Hakeem with a 46 point game, he murdered Patrick Ewing, outscoring him 40-9, and outshooting him 15-22 to 3-17.

You can also argue that the best players of the 60's, like Barry, Thurmond, West, Hayes, Kareem, and yes, Wilt, were still dominating in the 70's...in leagues that had Walton, McAdoo, Lanier, Gilmore, Dr. J, Moses, and other's...and some of those players, including Kareem, would go on to be the best players of the 80's. You can carry that argument right into the current NBA.

Ok fair enough, valid points all around. Yet still a lot of factors to be considered. Wilt put up those numbers in the early 60's, never came close to replicating them in the 70's (I know different role, still why did they ask him to take a back seat? :rolleyes: you can also consider the all around competition was better in the 70's). And Wilt didn't school young Kareem, the stats suggest it was a close match with Kareem getting the upper hand yet stats can be very deceiving. Nor did old Kareem school young Hakeem, it wasn't even a domination. And we also have the biggest knock on Wilt's almighty statistic domination, 18 ppg finals career average? 22 ppg playoffs career average? Although we cannot prove it with such a simple analysis, these stats imply that Wilt cannot dominate when the pressure is on, when the defense tightens up, when he is needed most to score he couldn't. But yeah blame it on his team and the coach, it was never Wilt's fault. :D

[SexSymbol]

nobody gives a shit.

[LAZERUSS]

A post-injury Wilt was still setting records, even into his last season, and at age 36. He again easily led the league in rebounding, at 18.6 rpg. In fact, Nate Thurmond was second at 17.1 rpg, but in their playoff series H2H, Wilt outrebounded him, 23.6 rpg to 17.2 rpg. Furthermore, Chamberlain would average 22.5 rpg in his 17 post-season games, in a post-season NBA that averaged 50.6 rpg...which was the last time any player would ever average 20+ rpg in the post-season (thee next best post-season was KAJ's 76-77 and in his 11 games he averaged 17.3 rpg.)

He also set a FG% record of .727 that likely will never be broken.

In his 71-72 season, he had TWO 30-30 games, one of which came against 6-11 HOFer Bob Lanier. In fact, in his last two seasons, he faced a Lanier (who had his peak season in 71-72 BTW) in 11 straight games. True, Lanier had some big games against Wilt, but in those 11 games, Chamberlain averaged 23.9 ppg on...get this... a .784 FG%!

Chamberlain also faced a peak Kareem in six H2H's in his last season, and held KAJ to a .450 FG%. In fact, if you go back to their last four H2H's from the '72 WCF's, Wilt held Kareem to a .434 FG% over the course of ten straight games.

And in his last two seasons, Chamberlain finsihed 3rd and 4th in the MVP voting, and won a FMVP (and a ring) in 71-72.

[LAZERUSS]

Ok fair enough, valid points all around. Yet still a lot of factors to be considered. Wilt put up those numbers in the early 60's, never came close to replicating them in the 70's (I know different role, still why did they ask him to take a back seat? :rolleyes: you can also consider the all around competition was better in the 70's). And Wilt didn't school young Kareem, the stats suggest it was a close match with Kareem getting the upper hand yet stats can be very deceiving. Nor did old Kareem school young Hakeem, it wasn't even a domination. And we also have the biggest knock on Wilt's almighty statistic domination, 18 ppg finals career average? 22 ppg playoffs career average? Although we cannot prove it with such a simple analysis, these stats imply that Wilt cannot dominate when the pressure is on, when the defense tightens up, when he is needed most to score he couldn't. But yeah blame it on his team and the coach, it was never Wilt's fault. :D

A 38-39 year old Kareem, over the course of TEN STRAIGHT H2H games against a 23-24 year old Hakeem...AVERAGED 32 ppg and on a .621 FG%. Included were three games of 40, 43, and 46 points (on 21-30 shooting, and in only 37 minutes.) It was so bad that the Rockets coach was ripped for allowing Hakeem to defend KAJ one-on-one. In fact, he moved Sampson as the primary defender on Kareem in the WCF's.

And the Hakeem-lovers take pride in Hakeem, (who was not the primary defender), outscoring KAJ in the '86 WCF's, 31-27 ppg, outrebounding him, 11-7 rpg, and outshooting him, .520 to .496. A 39 year old Kareem. BUT, they will excuse a 36 year year old Hakeem getting murdering by a 26 year old Shaq in the '99 playoffs. The reality was, a PEAK Kareem, at 23-24 years old, would have just annihilated any version of Hakeem.

As for the Wilt-Kareem H2H's... 28 career H2H's, 27 of which involved a 34-36 year old Wilt, playing on a surgically repaired knee. NONE of them with a PRIME Chamberlain, although a 33 year old Wilt had his way with rookie Kareem. In fact, over the course of their first 11 H2H's, Chamberlain won the majority of the statistical battles, this despite playing 10 of them a year after major knee surgery.

What we never were fortunate enough to see, was a PRIME Chamberlain against a PRIME Kareem. All we can go by are their H2H's with the same centers that both faced in their primes...and Wilt was CLEARLY more dominant.

And we have already shredded this post-season "decline" nonsense MANY times, and even YOU know it. A peak "scoring" Wilt only played in 52 of his 160 playoff games, and out of those 30 were against Russell. But, even with facing Russell in two-thirds of them, he still averaged 33 ppg, 26 rpg, and shot .505 (in leagues that shot about .420 in that same span.)

And of course, Wilt was arguably the greatest "must win" player in NBA history:


Wilt's numbers in those 23 games...13 of which came against HOF starting centers.

12-11 W-L record

31.1 ppg (Regular season career average was 30.1 ppg)
26.1 rpg (Regular season career average was 22.9 rpg)
3.4 apg (Regular season career average was 4.4 apg)
.540 FG% (Regular season career average was .540 FG%)


3 games of 50+ points

5 games of 40+ points (including a Finals 40+ elimination game)

13 games of 30+ points

6 games of 30+ rebounds

20 games of 20+ rebounds

So much for the "choker" label.

[LAZERUSS]

Ok fair enough, valid points all around. Yet still a lot of factors to be considered. Wilt put up those numbers in the early 60's, never came close to replicating them in the 70's (I know different role, still why did they ask him to take a back seat? :rolleyes: you can also consider the all around competition was better in the 70's). And Wilt didn't school young Kareem, the stats suggest it was a close match with Kareem getting the upper hand yet stats can be very deceiving. Nor did old Kareem school young Hakeem, it wasn't even a domination. And we also have the biggest knock on Wilt's almighty statistic domination, 18 ppg finals career average? 22 ppg playoffs career average? Although we cannot prove it with such a simple analysis, these stats imply that Wilt cannot dominate when the pressure is on, when the defense tightens up, when he is needed most to score he couldn't. But yeah blame it on his team and the coach, it was never Wilt's fault. :D

Just read the OP. Wilt, in his 68-69 season, and at age 32, hung two 60+ games (60 and 66 point games...the last of which came on 29-35 FG/FGAs.) In fact, SI was about to run an article claiming that Wilt could no longer score, and he unleashed that 60 point game the night before it hit the newstands. And over the course of 17 straight games, he averaged 31.1 ppg, including a 35 point game against Russell. Unfortunately for Wilt and the Lakers, VBK put the clamps on Wilt in the post-season, and preferred to ride the coattails of West, and a Baylor who would shoot .385 from the field.

And, with a new coach in that 69-70 season, Wilt started out on fire, and was leading the league in scoring at 32.2 ppg (on a .579 FG%), when he blew out his knee. This was eight years after his historic 61-62 season, and at the beginning of what would have been a new decade. . And Kareem was now in the league, as well. Kareem would of course go on to have a great career, but he never approached Wilt's domination.

[LAZERUSS]

nobody gives a shit.

Thanks for not only reading the topic, but for taking time out of your busy day to comment on it, as well.

[LAZERUSS]

There may be some, but aside from Wilt, himself, it would be interesting to see a list of players who put up a nine straight game cumulative average of 32 ppg, 20 rpg, 3 apg, and a .579 FG%...(and in one of them, to only play 28 minutes)...

[Asukal]

A 38-39 year old Kareem, over the course of TEN STRAIGHT H2H games against a 23-24 year old Hakeem...AVERAGED 32 ppg and on a .621 FG%. Included were three games of 40, 43, and 46 points (on 21-30 shooting, and in only 37 minutes.) It was so bad that the Rockets coach was ripped for allowing Hakeem to defend KAJ one-on-one. In fact, he moved Sampson as the primary defender on Kareem in the WCF's.

And the Hakeem-lovers take pride in Hakeem, (who was not the primary defender), outscoring KAJ in the '86 WCF's, 31-27 ppg, outrebounding him, 11-7 rpg, and outshooting him, .520 to .496. A 39 year old Kareem. BUT, they will excuse a 36 year year old Hakeem getting murdering by a 26 year old Shaq in the '99 playoffs. The reality was, a PEAK Kareem, at 23-24 years old, would have just annihilated any version of Hakeem.

As for the Wilt-Kareem H2H's... 28 career H2H's, 27 of which involved a 34-36 year old Wilt, playing on a surgically repaired knee. NONE of them with a PRIME Chamberlain, although a 33 year old Wilt had his way with rookie Kareem. In fact, over the course of their first 11 H2H's, Chamberlain won the majority of the statistical battles, this despite playing 10 of them a year after major knee surgery.

What we never were fortunate enough to see, was a PRIME Chamberlain against a PRIME Kareem. All we can go by are their H2H's with the same centers that both faced in their primes...and Wilt was CLEARLY more dominant.

And we have already shredded this post-season "decline" nonsense MANY times, and even YOU know it. A peak "scoring" Wilt only played in 52 of his 160 playoff games, and out of those 30 were against Russell. But, even with facing Russell in two-thirds of them, he still averaged 33 ppg, 26 rpg, and shot .505 (in leagues that shot about .420 in that same span.)

And of course, Wilt was arguably the greatest "must win" player in NBA history:



So much for the "choker" label.

This is what disqualifies Wilt from the GOAT label, it's always excuse after excuse. You always cherrypick the stats that suits your agenda. Fact of the matter is he averaged 18 and 22 for his whole career in the PO.

Second point, he is not the greatest must win player in NBA history. He lost too many times to even be in that conversation. You wanna cherrypick stats go ahead. Again, blame the teams and the coach if it makes you feel better. :rolleyes:

[millwad]

This is what disqualifies Wilt from the GOAT label, it's always excuse after excuse. You always cherrypick the stats that suits your agenda. Fact of the matter is he averaged 18 and 22 for his whole career in the PO.

Second point, he is not the greatest must win player in NBA history. He lost too many times to even be in that conversation. You wanna cherrypick stats go ahead. Again, blame the teams and the coach if it makes you feel better. :rolleyes:

Never trust Jlauber/Lazeruss/Audio_One/Houston and the other alts. he has. He is the biggest clown on this site.

I still remember when he used to claim that Kareem got "murdered" by Wilt in '72, then I checked their head-to-head stats and Kareem averaged 40 points on 50% shooting against Wilt in the regular season while outscoring Wilt with 23 points per game on better FG% while outassisting him as well. It was pretty obvious why he didn't want to post the numbers from that series.


And I just love how Jlauber/Lazerus keeps calling Wilt "the greatest must win player". It's so hilarious since Wilt is the same guy who gave away a ring in '69 finals due to massive choking from the FT-line.

The so called greatest must win player only made 2 out of 11 FT's in game 4 of the '69 finals, the Lakers lost that game with 1 point and Wilt only scored a total on 8 points in that game.

And then in game 7 in the finals he choked yet again, the Lakers lost with 2 points and Wilt only scored 18 points while only making 4 out of 13 FT's.

CHOKER.

[Psileas]

This is what disqualifies Wilt from the GOAT label, it's always excuse after excuse. You always cherrypick the stats that suits your agenda. Fact of the matter is he averaged 18 and 22 for his whole career in the PO.


Putting stats into perspective is not cherry picking. E.g, it's equally fact of the matter that Wilt averaged 22.9 rpg in his career and 24.5 rpg in his playoff career. I guess you'd be willing to offer some, as you'd call it, "excuse" for why these numbers are so astronomically high.

Edit: It's not 18 and 22. It's 19 and 23. Not an excuse, either, just a fact.

[Asukal]

Putting stats into perspective is not cherry picking. E.g, it's equally fact of the matter that Wilt averaged 22.9 rpg in his career and 24.5 rpg in his playoff career. I guess you'd be willing to offer some, as you'd call it, "excuse" for why these numbers are so astronomically high.

Edit: It's not 18 and 22. It's 19 and 23. Not an excuse, either, just a fact.

Ok explain the "astronomical" drop off from 30.1 ppg in the regular season. :rolleyes:

[HomieWeMajor]

Wilt =6'11 Reggie Evans with infinite touches on offense

[CavaliersFTW]

Ok explain the "astronomical" drop off from 30.1 ppg in the regular season. :rolleyes:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=260704

Nothing astronomical about it. He played relatively more playoff games as a past-his prime player under non-scoring roles than he did under scoring roles. The NBA playoff seasons used to be shorter early in his career, and like many superstars (Jordan included) his prime years were spent on teams improperly built for playoff and title runs. Pretty simple concept to understand.

[jongib369]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=260704

Nothing astronomical about it. He played relatively more playoff games as a past-his prime player under non-scoring roles than he did under scoring roles. The NBA playoff seasons used to be shorter early in his career, and like many superstars (Jordan included) his prime years were spent on teams improperly built for playoff and title runs. Pretty simple concept to understand.
People can't seem to grasp this....:facepalm

I've seen people say it even AFTER being told

[CavaliersFTW]

People can't seem to grasp this....:facepalm

I've seen people say it even AFTER being told
Of course, Asukal is one of those people, he posted on the second page of that thread. Simply deflected acknowledgement and proceeded to imply that role changes are a bad thing and should also be used against Wilt. No surprise at all he pretends he never learned about or saw the ratio of Playoff games vs regular season games Wilt played under different roles :lol

[millwad]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=260704

Nothing astronomical about it. He played relatively more playoff games as a past-his prime player under non-scoring roles than he did under scoring roles. The NBA playoff seasons used to be shorter early in his career, and like many superstars (Jordan included) his prime years were spent on teams improperly built for playoff and title runs. Pretty simple concept to understand.

Jordan has a higher ppg average in the playoffs compared to the regular season.

Wilt dropped in terms of scoring efficiency in almost every playoff year he played compared to the regular season. That excuse is just bad, that is why no one accept that excuse.

And Wilt never won a ring as the main scorer, that actually says a lot about how effective Wilt actually was. You guys like to cherry pick Wilt on his high scoring seasons but that leaves out his two rings, two rings he won as a sidekick in terms of scoring.

Wilt just wasn't THAT effective as a scorer as you guys want us to believe.

[millwad]

People can't seem to grasp this....:facepalm

I've seen people say it even AFTER being told

Because it's a bogus excuse, Wilt dropped in terms of FG% and points in his scoring prime as well.

[senelcoolidge]

http://img.spokeo.com/public/900-600/wilt_chamberlain_1979_01_01.jpg

Wilt was the most dominate player ever. It's there. But people will see what they want to see. Believe what they want to believe.

[millwad]

http://img.spokeo.com/public/900-600/wilt_chamberlain_1979_01_01.jpg

Wilt was the most dominate player ever. It's there. But people will see what they want to see. Believe what they want to believe.

The most dominant player would have led his team in terms of scoring while winning it all, Wilt was never even close.

[Psileas]

Ok explain the "astronomical" drop off from 30.1 ppg in the regular season.

I'm not going to assume you didn't read one of the dozens of explanations I and others have offered in older Wilt threads, so please spare me with this.
Hey, explain how the "choker" averaged more points in the playoffs than in the regular season against his respective playoff opponents in half his playoff series (whereas a real choker would show his lack of value/confidence/whatever by doing so significantly more often in the regular season).

[millwad]

I'm not going to assume you didn't read one of the dozens of explanations I and others have offered in older Wilt threads, so please spare me with this.
Hey, explain how the "choker" averaged more points in the playoffs than in the regular season against his respective playoff opponents in half his playoff series (whereas a real choker would show his lack of value/confidence/whatever by doing so significantly more often in the regular season).

A Wilt fan at his best, cherry picking at it's finest.. :facepalm

[Stringer Bell]

Wilt the "greatest must win player"????

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/--wFhRQUU8Zc/Ted0ilRn2gI/AAAAAAAADyE/DNukoF0Ubto/s1600/haha.jpg