My speculation about how wilson shot brown in ferguson

[MavsSuperFan]

Many things are still unclear, but this is what I think so far (the latest version of what i speculate happened)
As far as i know there are 2 versions of the events.

Before the event Brown and Johnson strong arm rob a store. The cop (wilson) does not know about this robbery. However Brown is aware he robbed a store and imo is likely to have assumed that is why the cop stopped him.

The knowledge of the robbery influenced brown
Eg. If I rob a store and a cop tries to pull me over I am less likely to assume its because of speeding rather than because I robbed a store a few minutes ago

Pro Brown (johnson and other witness version):
He and his friend johnson were walking in the middle of the road. the cop pulls over and tells them to get over to the side of the road. they tell him its a suburban street and they are almost home. cop opens the door but the door hits brown and the cop mistakes this as them not allowing him out of the car, He is verbally abusive and escalates the encounter and tries to arrest them.

Brown runs his friend submits, after brown is shot in the back he turns around with his hands up begging the cop not to shoot and surrenders. the cop finishes him off for disrespecting him.

Pro cop (his version) :
brown and johnson are walking in the middle of a suburban road. the cop pulls over and tells them to get over to the side of the road. they tell him its a suburban street and they are almost home and keep walking. cop tries to get out and brown holds the door closed. Brown punches the cop from outside the car and reaches in to grab at the cops gun. Cop's gun is discharged in the struggle and brown and johnson run away. cop gets out and chases (at this point because he has been punched and his gun was almost stolen)

Cop orders them both to surrender. Johnson surrenders.
Brown turns around (as a heavier fellow perhaps he thought he couldnt run away) taunts the cop and charges at him. Cop shoots in self defense.

Those are the 2 versions I believe.

There is a 3rd possible version of brown holding the cop car door closed, punching the cop and trying to take the gun as told by the cop (first part of cops version)

but once the cop got out and ordered johnson and brown to surrender johnson surrendered and brown kept running. cop shoots at brown and brown turns around surrenders and begs not to be shot. Cop finishes him for assaulting him and trying to steal his gun. (last part of johnson version)

Amature Analysis:
All 3 versions have problems.

first version (johnson's): basically in this version the cop is a psychopath that kills brown for running away, even after brown turns around puts his hands up and begs to not be shot. Eg. according to johnson that is the only difference in their behaviour.

The cop according to reports has not been disciplined in his 6 year career. Also in this version brown doesnt attack the cop at all or try to take the gun. Johnson's claim that the car door hit brown while opening, instead of brown holding the car door closed is hard to believe.

Brown is also portrayed as meek and quick to run in this version. Somewhat contrary to behavior recorded on tape of a strong arm robbery he committed

Second version (cop's): in this version brown has no fear of death, and no fear of cops. he punches the cop, he tries to take the cops gun. and later charges the cop.

If this were true brown would be crazy and fearless. That seems improbable.

3rd version (first part of cop version combined with last part of johnson version): the problem with this version is no one is going with this version. and its likely too late to do so. Also why didnt the cop also shoot johnson.

and finally there exists a taped conversation that talks about brown charging at the cop

Disagree? agree?

[KevinNYC]

Amature Analysis:
All 3 versions have problems.

first version (johnson's): basically in this version the cop is a psychopath that kills brown for running away, even after brown turns around puts his hands up and begs to not be shot. Eg. according to johnson that is the only difference in their behaviour.

I think this analysis doesn't work. The cop doesn't have to be a psychopath. A psychopath would feel no guilt. Witness accounts have the cop pacing back and forth and muttering to himself. You're overlooking a simpler and more common scenario. The cop ****ed up. It could have been due to panic or rage, but it was a moment of hot-blooded response as opposed to the cold-bloodness of a psychopath.
The cop according to reports has not been disciplined in his 6 year career. Also in this version brown doesnt attack the cop at all or try to take the gun. Johnson's claim that the car door hit brown while opening, instead of brown holding the car door closed is hard to believe.

Well, Ferguson didn't really keep good records until 4 years ago under the old police chief. Here' the old chief giving a deposition on the lax paperwork. (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/15/the-day-ferguson-cops-were-caught-in-a-bloody-lie.html)[QUOTE]

[MavsSuperFan]

I think this analysis doesn't work. The cop doesn't have to be a psychopath. A psychopath would feel no guilt. Witness accounts have the cop pacing back and forth and muttering to himself. You're overlooking a simpler and more common scenario. The cop ****ed up. It could have been due to panic or rage, but it was a moment of hot-blooded response as opposed to the cold-bloodness of a psychopath.

Well, Ferguson didn't really keep good records until 4 years ago under the old police chief. Here' the old chief giving a deposition on the lax paperwork. (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/15/the-day-ferguson-cops-were-caught-in-a-bloody-lie.html)

Also I don't think this is problematic at all.

He's running because the cop has already fired a shot. I don't see fleeing the police as meek. It's a different situation with different stakes and this guy has a gun while the other didn't.

If Brown and johnson behaved the way johnson describes it than, the cop would have to be a psychopath to shoot brown.

According to johnson's account they did nothing to make the cop angry.


He's running because the cop has already fired a shot. I don't see fleeing the police as meek. It's a different situation with different stakes and this guy has a gun while the other didn't
overall referencing johnson's account of how brown acted. of course after the gun went off brown would have ran.

IIRC Johnsons account doesnt have the whole struggle in the car where the cop gets punched by brown. Johnson's version is the cop gets out and shoots at a running brown.

In johnson's version brown doesnt try to push the cop back in the car, hold the car door closed, punch the cop, or reach for the gun. the cop just starts shooting brown for running away.


Well, Ferguson didn't really keep good records until 4 years ago under the old police chief. Here' the old chief giving a deposition on the lax paperwork.


Wilson has only been a cop 6 years IIRC

[SCdac]

Second version (cop's): in this version brown has no fear of death, and no fear of cops. he punches the cop, he tries to take the cops gun. and later charges the cop.

If this were true brown would be crazy and fearless. That seems improbable


skimmed through your post, but is this really that improbable? If the guy wants to beat up a cop, so he can go home free, he's going to try and do what allegedly happened in this 2nd scenario. He may not have been lacking a fear of death but just acting out of adrenaline-filled, split second, desperation.

[DwnShft2Xcelr8]

The recorded audio of the black neighbor recalling the events of the shooting is what makes me believe the 2nd version (Officer Wilson's version).
That neighbor is likely a black male. He has no reason to lie, especially corroborating the officer's tale. He clearly says Brown charged at the cop.
Why would this cop execute Brown but not the friend? That makes no sense. Plus, Officer Wilson is by himself in a black neighborhood and he decides to execute a young black male in broad daylight?
The fact that so many "witnesses" claim the officer executed Brown sickens me. That's dozens of people, most who probably didn't see anything, LYING. These clowns can't be trusted. They're going out of their way to ruin a man's life by claiming he used deadly force for no reason other than seeing this as a black vs white thing, instead of what it really is: stupid ass thug vs police officer.

[GOBB]

Cops need better gun training. No reason to unload at least 6 shots into someone who is unarmed. Going to gun range at your leisure doesn't cut it. There should be strict training yearly. Mandatory.

[Meticode]

That's dozens of people, most who probably didn't see anything, LYING. These clowns can't be trusted. They're going out of their way to ruin a man's life by claiming he used deadly force for no reason other than seeing this as a black vs white thing, instead of what it really is: stupid ass thug vs police officer.
People like this bind together to lie. I lived in the ghetto for almost 20 years and I saw groups of people constantly lie to police to keep get their friends out of trouble even though the friend was in the wrong anyway. It wouldn't surprise me if witnesses saw what happened and then told other people to say Brown put his hands up before he got shot to make it sound wrong. Hell, I don't see why this isn't possible. They all live on the same block in the same neighborhood and talk to each other.

[Meticode]

Cops need better gun training. No reason to unload at least 6 shots into someone who is unarmed. Going to gun range at your leisure doesn't cut it. There should be strict training yearly. Mandatory.
This, and human beings like Michael Brown need more commonsense and just get the hell up on the sidewalk.

[MavsSuperFan]

This, and human beings like Michael Brown need more commonsense and just get the hell up on the sidewalk.
but what if you had just robbed a store and feared arrest?

[MavsSuperFan]

skimmed through your post, but is this really that improbable? If the guy wants to beat up a cop, so he can go home free, he's going to try and do what allegedly happened in this 2nd scenario. He may not have been lacking a fear of death but just acting out of adrenaline-filled, split second, desperation.
i just cant imagine it. browns behavior in this version is so illogical

[GOBB]

but what if you had just robbed a store and feared arrest?

Did he or didn't he rob the store? Has that been answered? So far what I know is the store didn't call the cops on him. So who did and why didn't the store? Video shows he was at the counter. If you steal someone you usually flee. Just questions I'm curious of. You seem to follow this case. Do you know?

[Meticode]

but what if you had just robbed a store and feared arrest?
Commonsense and not rob a store?

[Meticode]

Did he or didn't he rob the store?
Yes? Dorian Johnson Confirms Him and Brown Took Part of Robbery (http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/2014/08/15/attorney-dorian-johnson-michael-brown-robbery/14118769/)

Edit: Also to comment on your store not calling the cops question. I'm not sure why stores do this, but when I lived in Cincinnati, small stores wouldn't call the cops over small shit because they felt it was a waste of time to get a cruiser out there, have someone be interviewed by the cop. Small time robberies happen like this all the time in the ghetto where I lived.

[NumberSix]

Cops need better gun training. No reason to unload at least 6 shots into someone who is unarmed. Going to gun range at your leisure doesn't cut it. There should be strict training yearly. Mandatory.
So, your solution is, the cop should have just put his dukes up and fought him?

[MavsSuperFan]

Did he or didn't he rob the store? Has that been answered? So far what I know is the store didn't call the cops on him. So who did and why didn't the store? Video shows he was at the counter. If you steal someone you usually flee. Just questions I'm curious of. You seem to follow this case. Do you know?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHxXGvXQrno
watch the video and decide for yourself

specifically how he treats the clerk

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc494/steelermia/16documents-ferguson1-superJumbo_zpsf8966673.jpg
you can see the cigars

[NumberSix]

Did he or didn't he rob the store? Has that been answered? So far what I know is the store didn't call the cops on him. So who did and why didn't the store? Video shows he was at the counter. If you steal someone you usually flee. Just questions I'm curious of. You seem to follow this case. Do you know?
No it wasn't reported. The cops just randomly decided to check all store cameras in the city on the off chance that the dead kid just happened to have robbed a store earlier.

[Meticode]

So, your solution is, the cop should have just put his dukes up and fought him?


You're a Fcuking idiot.
No, I think he's stating the cop should've been able to shoot him once or twice in the lower body to make him incapcitated. Because that's the first thing going through your mind when someone as big as him rushes towards you and you have a gun. :oldlol:

[NumberSix]

No, I think he's stating the cop should've been able to shoot him once or twice in the lower body to make him incapcitated. Because that's the first thing going through your mind when someone as big as him rushes towards you and you have a gun. :oldlol:
So, instead of shooting him in the arm first to try to make him stop without killing him..... He should have just aimed for the head from the get go?

[Akrazotile]

No, I think he's stating the cop should've been able to shoot him once or twice in the lower body to make him incapcitated. Because that's the first thing going through your mind when someone as big as him rushes towards you and you have a gun. :oldlol:


The problem is there was a second perp, who has obvious gang tats to boot, who you have to account for. If you shoot the first guy in the lower leg and then turn your attention to the other guy, then teddy bear might still be able to pull a gun which you have no idea if he has, and shoot you.

This was a two-on-one situation, these dudes were ghetto as hell, and one of them was a freakin behemoth. SHOOT TO KILL.

YOU DONT HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO GOBB FOR IT.

[Godzuki]

this cop account is very believable. Can't wait until pics and more evidence comes out because its really a situation where they want to hang a white guy.

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2014/08/19/ac-radio-show-account-michael-brown-death.cnn.html

its pretty obvious the desperation in some posters logic/perspectives to paint him/situation against the white cop.

[Meticode]

So, instead of shooting him in the arm first to try to make him stop without killing him..... He should have just aimed for the head from the get go?
Correct!

[MavsSuperFan]

No it wasn't reported. The cops just randomly decided to check all store cameras in the city on the off chance that the dead kid just happened to have robbed a store earlier.
ya i have a hard time believing the store didnt call it in. the store owner/clerk seemed plenty angry about it.

Also the cops got that video super fast.

[GOBB]

So, your solution is, the cop should have just put his dukes up and fought him?

You're a d!ckhead that can't comprehend.

[Godzuki]

Did he or didn't he rob the store? Has that been answered? So far what I know is the store didn't call the cops on him. So who did and why didn't the store? Video shows he was at the counter. If you steal someone you usually flee. Just questions I'm curious of. You seem to follow this case. Do you know?


this is akin to blaming Denny for not running people over....completely avoiding whats so fukking obvious looking for excuses anywhere but in front of your eyes :lol

[GOBB]

ya i have a hard time believing the store didnt call it in. the store owner/clerk seemed plenty angry about it.

Also the cops got that video super fast.

Store owner said they didn't call the police.

[NumberSix]

Store owner said they didn't call the police.
So, the police just guessed that there was a video of Brown robbing that exact store in their possession?

[MavsSuperFan]

Store owner said they didn't call the police.
his store was looted and damaged by the rioters. some people blamed him for giving the police the tape.

I would be saying that too if I were him. If he didnt call the cops, how did they get the video?

[GOBB]

his store was looted and damaged by the rioters. some people blamed him for giving the police the tape.

I would be saying that too if I were him. If he didnt call the cops, how did they get the video?

Someone in the store a patron it's being said called the cops and reported a robbery. Cops acted on the call. Why wouldn't they take the tapes to investigate if indeed what was said happened? It's ok if you don't know. Neither do I. I simply asked because you seemed to have been following the case but your recent replies tell me you don't know. Just going by assumption. Solid.

Most store owners would call cops if someone stole items from their store and casually walked out. Guess it's sweet there.

[Meticode]

Most store owners would call cops if someone stole items from their store and casually walked out. Guess it's sweet there.
Cops won't do anything. They'll come, talk to you, take down notes, go on their merry way. Ain't shit done about it.

[GOBB]

Cops won't do anything. They'll come, talk to you, take down notes, go on their merry way. Ain't shit done about it.

Not true. That doesn't happen where I live. Maybe where you live or lived. So to just assume that is the case there (ferguerson) you can't say.

Make note he very well may have stole cigars. I don't know. Just valid questions because I don't have all the facts.

[MavsSuperFan]

Someone in the store a patron it's being said called the cops and reported a robbery. Cops acted on the call. Why wouldn't they take the tapes to investigate if indeed what was said happened? It's ok if you don't know. Neither do I. I simply asked because you seemed to have been following the case but your recent replies tell me you don't know. Just going by assumption. Solid.

Most store owners would call cops if someone stole items from their store and casually walked out. Guess it's sweet there.
Alright I assumed the store owner called the cops. But i dont have proof.

Though I still think he called the cops, but I also understand why he would deny it now.

Im not entirely sure what the significance is if they called the cops or not.
http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2014/08/15/nr-vo-tapper-robbery-surveillance-michael-brown.cnn&video_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.insidehoops.com%2F forum%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D351143%26page%3D14

to me that is a robbery.

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc494/steelermia/16documents-ferguson1-superJumbo_zpsf8966673.jpg

you are the first person to dispute that is a robbery.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Did he or didn't he rob the store? Has that been answered? So far what I know is the store didn't call the cops on him. So who did and why didn't the store? Video shows he was at the counter. If you steal someone you usually flee. Just questions I'm curious of. You seem to follow this case. Do you know?

Totally agree. This "go home at any cost" mentality cops have has led to a lot of senseless deaths.

I'd honestly be scared to reach for my wallet around a cop at this point. It's a black wallet after all, he might think it's a gun...

[navy]

Why did he shoot him so many times?

[GOBB]

Totally agree. This "go home at any cost" mentality cops have has led to a lot of senseless deaths.

I'd honestly be scared to reach for my wallet around a cop at this point. It's a black wallet after all, he might think it's a gun...

Or handcuffed and shot by cops and either they say "accident", "thought it was my taser", "u reached for my gun".

Sad part you reach for wallet and the morning paper reads "man riddled with 38 bullets". But hey no excessive force.

I just don't see how people can read cops killing unarmed people with a couples hundred bullets and it's justified.

[dude77]

Why did he shoot him so many times?

6 shots is nothing .. you can fire off 6 quickly .. and 4 were on his arm so he probably wasn't down yet .. then came the last 2 .. you fire to neutralize(down)

[TheReal Kendall]

I understand the dude robbed the store and whatnot but the cop didn't have to shoot him. I haven't been following the story so I'm just speaking on the little bit I've read/seen online.

Anyway, if dude was indeed unarmed, cops have a couple of different options to use before lethal force.

At my old job I was a armed guard and was trained on basically most of the cop stuff to a certain degree and you suppose to always avoid lethal force if the perp is unarmed.

You can either tase, pepper spray, or overpower the individual.

So I really don't see how or why the cop felt the need to shoot the dude. Even if there were 2 perps that mace can cover a wide area. I've seen that stuff shut a whole club down. Just pulling out the mace and taser would have been enough to deter the 2 suspects.

Also I'm bout to start reporting all the racist crap you guys say on here.

[Akrazotile]

Why did he shoot him so many times?


Adrenaline (especially combined with crazy shit like pcp or bath salts, god knows what some criminals are on) can give a person crazy physical resilience and if youre a cop and someone is assaulting you, you have no choice but to kill them bc if they manage to land a blow or fire a shot that knocks you unconscious, you may never end up waking up.


Teddy Bear got what he had comin. Its time to deal with this, folks. Sometimes bad things happen to bad people.

[GOBB]

Why did he shoot him so many times?

Because the cop was poorly trained. Trigger happy.

[MavsSuperFan]

I understand the dude robbed the store and whatnot but the cop didn't have to shoot him. I haven't been following the story so I'm just speaking on the little bit I've read/seen online.

Anyway, if dude was indeed unarmed, cops have a couple of different options to use before lethal force.

At my old job I was a armed guard and was trained on basically most of the cop stuff to a certain degree and you suppose to always avoid lethal force if the perp is unarmed.

You can either tase, pepper spray, or overpower the individual.

So I really don't see how or why the cop felt the need to shoot the dude. Even if there were 2 perps that mace can cover a wide area. I've seen that stuff shut a whole club down. Just pulling out the mace and taser would have been enough to deter the 2 suspects.

Also I'm bout to start reporting all the racist crap you guys say on here.
If the cops only justification is brown robbed a store.
An event the cop didnt know about than it was murder.

If Johnson's version was true cop murdered brown.

[MavsSuperFan]

Why did he shoot him so many times?
according to johnson because brown was running away. and then after being shot in the back brown turned around and put up his hands and surrendered and begged not to be shot. The cop choose to kill brown.

According to the cop (wilson) brown pushed him back into his car, punched him in the face, and tried to take his gun. In the struggle his gun discharged, brown and johnson ran away.

Cop got out the car and commanded them to stop. Johnson surrendered.

Brown charged at the cop. the cop fired until brown hit the ground. if it makes any difference to you brown was 6'4 almost 300 lbs. I think 292.

[MavsSuperFan]

Yes? Dorian Johnson Confirms Him and Brown Took Part of Robbery (http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/2014/08/15/attorney-dorian-johnson-michael-brown-robbery/14118769/)

Edit: Also to comment on your store not calling the cops question. I'm not sure why stores do this, but when I lived in Cincinnati, small stores wouldn't call the cops over small shit because they felt it was a waste of time to get a cruiser out there, have someone be interviewed by the cop. Small time robberies happen like this all the time in the ghetto where I lived.
thanks for that link.
Johnson admits to robbing the store with brown. Even if the store owner is denying he got robbed, imo its pretty clear to a neutral observer they robbed the store and the store owner is scared he will be blamed by the community for saying brown robbed him. Maybe its an unjustified fear, maybe not.

[navy]

according to johnson because brown was running away. and then after being shot in the back brown turned around and put up his hands and surrendered and begged not to be shot. The cop choose to kill brown.

According to the cop (wilson) brown pushed him back into his car, punched him in the face, and tried to take his gun. In the struggle his gun discharged, brown and johnson ran away.

Cop got out the car and commanded them to stop. Johnson surrendered.

Brown charged at the cop. the cop fired until brown hit the ground. if it makes any difference to you brown was 6'4 almost 300 lbs. I think 292.
I think the cop the cop was trigger happy. And by happy I mean his mind blanked and he didnt asses the situation. Just because you are 292 pounds doesnt mean you eat bullets like they are punches.

[Nick Young]

If the cops only justification is brown robbed a store.
An event the cop didnt know about than it was murder.

If Johnson's version was true cop murdered brown.
What if Brown was charging the police, like a witness was caught on camera saying?:confusedshrug:

http://static.ijreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/michael-brown-ferguson-pic-05.jpg
That shy innocent young boy who was going to college next week doe.

[Godzuki]

I think the cop the cop was trigger happy. And by happy I mean his mind blanked and he didnt asses the situation. Just because you are 292 pounds doesnt mean you eat bullets like they are punches.


yes u do.

a rhino will take a lot more bullets than a chihuaha

a bear will take a lot more bullets than a squirrel

but none are surviving one to the head which was the finisher according to cop/girl testimony. most of those shots hit his arm anyways.

the cop testimony is very believable. this idea he murdered a guy in the middle of a apartment complex with his hands up in broad daylight is laffable.

[MavsSuperFan]

I think the cop the cop was trigger happy. And by happy I mean his mind blanked and he didnt asses the situation. Just because you are 292 pounds doesnt mean you eat bullets like they are punches.
I think it will come down to which version the jury believes.

If its dorian johnson's version it is definitely murder. Technically its not first degree murder, because its not premeditated, but I wish second degree murder could get the death penalty.

If Wilson's version is believed. IMO wilson should be reinstated on the force and I think he did nothing wrong. We can not push cops, we cannot trap a cop in a car, we cannot punch a cop, we cannot reach for a cops gun, we cannot charge a cop.

No one other than johnson and wilson (the cop) knows what really happened. this video leads me to lean towards the cop since the witness (who doesn't know sound is being recorded talks about how brown charged at wilson)

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/168698-eyewitness-recalls-important-detail-background-video-mins-ferguson-shooting/

also the fact that johnson claimed brown was shot in the back and the autopsy report has refuted that. IIRC all shots entered from the front.

I am currently leaning towards the cops version but I am totally open to being wrong. I dont know the cop and have nothing invested in his well being beyond wanting the truth.

[KNOW1EDGE]

You can't do anything that a cop may interpret as threatening.

AKA you can't do anything a cop might say he interpreted as threatening.

AKA you can't be around a cop without risking the chance he or she may unjustafiably kill you and get away with it on their way to a paid vacation while your family buries you.

'Murica!

[MavsSuperFan]

You can't do anything that a cop may interpret as threatening.

AKA you can't do anything a cop might say he interpreted as threatening.

AKA you can't do anything around a cop without risking being shot and killed and your murderer being awarded a paid vacation.

Great system. Cops shoot and kill innocents and who investigates? -Their fellow officers. Wonder why they are never found guilty? Me neither! Why don't we the people investigate and decide the officers fate?
In this case the justice department and FBI are investigating.

Are you saying the FBI is beholden to the ferguson local police?

it was a great move by obama to bring in the justice department. Their authority and independence is beyond reproach in anything other than an investigation into the executive branch.
Local cops from some hick town arent going to be able to intimidate the feds.

[DonDadda59]

The independent autopsy that was performed says one of the gunshots on Brown's arms traveled in a back to front trajectory. Doesn't that corroborate witness testimony about him being shot initially while his back was turned to the cop? Or at the very least it may indicate his arms were in the air (thereby exposing the 'back' of his arms). I think one of the bullets went through his palm too.

[MavsSuperFan]

The independent autopsy that was performed says one of the gunshots on Brown's arms traveled in a back to front trajectory. Doesn't that corroborate witness testimony about him being shot initially while his back was turned to the cop? Or at the very least it may indicate his arms were in the air (thereby exposing the 'back' of his arms). I think one of the bullets went through his palm too.
Could be helpful to johnson's claim. Perhaps johnson saw bullets fired at brown's back and he assumed it hit him in the back.

We will see as more info comes out. Thank you for calmly discussing it.

I want to see if the cops can produce any evidence of the damage the punch they claim brown hit wilson with. Eg. a broken nose, black eye or something to give credence to wilson's claim of being punched in the face.

[Godzuki]

In this case the justice department and FBI are investigating.

Are you saying the FBI is beholden to the ferguson local police?

it was a great move by obama to bring in the justice department. Their authority and independence is beyond reproach in anything other than an investigation into the executive branch.
Local cops from some hick town arent going to be able to intimidate the feds.


wrong

if anything it looks like Obama and Holder are favorable towards the agenda....

if u read top rated comments on facebook Obama stood up for Trayvon prematurely and stood up for Mike Brown in some peoples perceptions, and not much sympathy for the other side, which doesn't exactly make him unbiased. and obviously Holder is more the sergeant at arms.

in my view they and the federal branch are culpable in allowing the stores to be looted while police watch on and 'smile'. they're culpable in allowing the rioters to get away with it. the missouri police no matter if they were heavy handed, were instilling order. when Obama got involved he was not.

[DonDadda59]

Could be helpful to johnson's claim. Perhaps johnson saw bullets fired at brown's back and he assumed it hit him in the back.

We will see as more info comes out. Thank you for calmly discussing it.

Yup. The kid that was with him and, as far as I know, at least 1 other victim claimed he was shot as he tried to run or walk away from the cop with his back turned to him. The initial private autopsy corroborates this or him having his hands in a 'surrender posture' due to the back to front trajectory:


An unarmed 18-year-old whose fatal shooting by police has sparked a week of protests in suburban St. Louis suffered a bullet wound to his right arm that may indicate his hands were up or his back was turned, a pathologist hired by his family said Monday.

But the pathologist said the team that examined Michael Brown can't be sure yet exactly how the wounds were inflicted, citing the need for more information.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/preliminary-autopsy-shows-michael-brown-shot-six-times/

The DOJ is doing another autopsy and the Ferguson cops aren't releasing any info about the investigation (beyond the video of the cigarillo heist for some reason). So hopefully more info comes out. But the initial findings say his back was either turned to the cop or he had his hands in the air when he was shot.


I want to see if the cops can produce any evidence of the damage the punch they claim brown hit wilson with. Eg. a broken nose, black eye or something to give credence to wilson's claim of being punched in the face.

The autopsy found no signs of a physical struggle on Brown's body (ie, bruising to Brown's knuckles, scratch marks, etc). Doesn't mean there wasn't one though.

[gts]

The independent autopsy that was performed says one of the gunshots on Brown's arms traveled in a back to front trajectory. Doesn't that corroborate witness testimony about him being shot initially while his back was turned to the cop? Or at the very least it may indicate his arms were in the air (thereby exposing the 'back' of his arms). I think one of the bullets went through his palm too.

actually that was refuted by a pathologist on CNN that read the autopsy... that back to front scenario was started by one of the Brown family attorneys but the pathologist said that wasn't true at all, it hadn't been determined at this time

[Riley Martin]

actually that was refuted by a pathologist on CNN that read the autopsy... that back to front scenario was started by one of the Brown family attorneys but the pathologist said that wasn't true at all, it hadn't been determined at this time

Yeah, he said arms are extremely mobile. He said with the current info available, there's no way to determine if a back-to-front arm wound occurred from the back with the arm down, from the front with the arm raised or from the front with the arm in a running motion.

[qrich]

Honestly, I think Brown was just paranoid after committing burglary + assault & battery, thought he was SOL and went into Fight or Flight mode, ending with Ofc Wilson discharging his firearm out of genuine fear.

I mean, if Ofc Wilson was looking to stir the pot, why'd he pick on the bigger of the two? Or why'd he choose someone that, I'm assuming, is much more intimidating than Ofc Wilson himself is, and not some other random person?

[DonDadda59]

actually that was refuted by a pathologist on CNN that read the autopsy... that back to front scenario was started by one of the Brown family attorneys but the pathologist said that wasn't true at all, it hadn't been determined at this time

Check the CBS video link I posted. One of the pathologists (Professor Shawn Parcells) who actually performed the autopsy is adamant that the entry wound on his arm entered from the back of his arm. What that means exactly has yet to be determined. But it does corroborate witness testimony that Brown was intially shot while he was running away from Wilson, with his back to him and only stopped to turn around to raise his hands in surrender.

But of course it could've happened in another matter. But the conclusion from that autopsy is that the entry wound was the back and it traveled to the front of his arm.

[Riley Martin]

Was the back-to-front gunshot on his forearm or upper arm (tricep)? If it's on the forearm it seems like it could have been a shot to his front with his hand raised in one of many scenarios. Hands raised, running motion, pointing at the officer. But if it's on his upper arm, it seems like that would have to be a shot from the rear, right?

[DonDadda59]

Was the back-to-front gunshot on his forearm or upper arm (tricep)? If it's on the forearm it seems like it could have been a shot to his front with his hand raised in one of many scenarios. Hands raised, running motion, pointing at the officer. But if it's on his upper arm, it seems like that would have to be a shot from the rear, right?

Not really sure, I think it was the forearm close to his elbow (but don't quote me on that). And obviously there's several scenarios that could account for the wound, but it does corroborate witness testimony that Brown was initially shot with his back to the cop while running away and he only stopped to turn around and surrender to the cop with his hands up (at this point is also where he could've been shot with the wound still being consistent... plus he had a wound to his palm meaning at some point his open palm was facing the cop as he shot at him).

I'm mostly intrigued by how a 6'4" guy gets shot in crown of his head. Unless he was charging head first at the cop with his upper body being parelell to the ground, how does that happen? And mind you, that was the second shot to his head while he was leaning forward.

[Riley Martin]

Actually, looking at the autopsy diagram it doesn't appear that any of the wounds are marked back-to-front. If any were, wouldn't they be on the right figure? The rear-sided figure is blank.

http://i.imgur.com/CKB8J7Q.png

Also, I don't know if it's just because the hands are cut off for some reason but I don't see any palm shots either. I don't know.. This autopsy seems shaky to me. Hopefully they conduct more, and release the results of the first autopsy that was done.

[Nick Young]

Not really sure, I think it was the forearm close to his elbow (but don't quote me on that). And obviously there's several scenarios that could account for the wound, but it does corroborate witness testimony that Brown was initially shot with his back to the cop while running away and he only stopped to turn around and surrender to the cop with his hands up (at this point is also where he could've been shot with the wound still being consistent... plus he had a wound to his palm meaning at some point his open palm was facing the cop as he shot at him).

I'm mostly intrigued by how a 6'4" guy gets shot in crown of his head. Unless he was charging head first at the cop with his upper body being parelell to the ground, how does that happen? And mind you, that was the second shot to his head while he was leaning forward.
What would you say if you found out that Brown was convicted of murder as a juvenile aka young little scamp?:confusedshrug:

[Godzuki]

Not really sure, I think it was the forearm close to his elbow (but don't quote me on that). And obviously there's several scenarios that could account for the wound, but it does corroborate witness testimony that Brown was initially shot with his back to the cop while running away and he only stopped to turn around and surrender to the cop with his hands up (at this point is also where he could've been shot with the wound still being consistent... plus he had a wound to his palm meaning at some point his open palm was facing the cop as he shot at him).

I'm mostly intrigued by how a 6'4" guy gets shot in crown of his head. Unless he was charging head first at the cop with his upper body being parelell to the ground, how does that happen? And mind you, that was the second shot to his head while he was leaning forward.


he was charging him, possibly leaning forward....people do lean forward when they charge.

or he was falling after numerous other gun shot wounds, and the top head shots were the kill shots, which is consistent with alleged cop testimony.

[longtime lurker]

he was charging him, possibly leaning forward....people do lean forward when they charge.

or he was falling after numerous other gun shot wounds, and the top head shots were the kill shots, which is consistent with alleged cop testimony.

So I'd he wasn't charging how did he fall?

[Godzuki]

So I'd he wasn't charging how did he fall?


alleged cop testimony was he was charging, took several gun shots, and still kept coming. its possible he slipped, possible the other gun shots made him weak, who knows. alleged cop testimony is the head shots finished him.

otherwise the only other way to shoot a guy that big in the top of his head would likely be execution style with him kneeling but that is not in any testimony. can't think of any other way how a bullet enters the top of the head.

[DonDadda59]

What would you say if you found out that Brown was convicted of murder as a juvenile aka young little scamp?:confusedshrug:

I would say 'What the hell does that have to do with the autopsy report?'

Certain people wanted to immediately dismiss the initial witness testimonies because it didn't vibe with their Juggernaut thug narrative, but I think with their claims combined with the 2nd autopsy give a clearer picture of what happened:


Johnson took off running and hid behind the first car he saw, Bosley said. “Big Mike runs by him. He says to Dorian, ‘Keep running,’ ” Bosley said. “The officer chases Big Mike. He fires a shot and hits Big Mike in the back. Big Mike turns around. [Brown] puts his hands up. The officer shoots him five or six more times.”

DIGITAL ERA @SLIKK_DARKO
@TheePharoah nah u gone be cool, u just ain't gone forget that, so the boys shot him?

Bruh. @TheePharoah
Follow

@SLIKK_DARKO yeah man. 7 times i think

DIGITAL ERA @SLIKK_DARKO
@TheePharoah from behind ?

@SLIKK_DARKO the first two was, the next 5 werent, he turned around


Charles Johnson @Green_Footballs
At least 3 witnesses said Michael Brown was on his knees with his hands up when he was shot dead. The autopsy supports these accounts.

That last bit is key IMO because it explains how a 6'4" dude was shot on the crown of his head. His upper body would've been in an extremely awkward and unlikely position if he was charging towards the cop as he claims.

Most likely scenario is there was a scuffle of some sort in the police car, Wilson drew his weapon and a round went off which caused Brown and Johnson to panic and take off running, with Johnson hiding behind the first car he saw. Wilson jumped out the squad car and fired 2 shots at Brown's back region, 1 hit him on the arm. He decides to give up, turns around with his hands in the air but Wilson keeps firing, pumping 5 more shots into him- the last 2 to his head while Brown was on his knees slumped over.

It seems extremely illogical that after taking off and running (presumably from fear and panic) after the first round went off that Brown would all of a sudden stop in his tracks, turn around and taunt Wilson claiming he wouldn't shoot him... and then charge full speed at him... after Wilson had already drawn and fired back at the car, and then twice more as Brown ran away per several witness testimonies.

[Akrazotile]

At this point I think it's pretty clear what happened.

Regardless of being a confirmed gang member or gang member wannabe, strong arm robbing a convenience store, assaulting an officer, and possibly having a murder rap as a kid, this is a clear case of a sweet innocent teddy bear who was going to college next week being murdered in cold blood by a police officer simply for being black.

I think we can pretty much call off the detectives at this point. The sequence is clear.


Does anyone know when a candlelight vigil will be held for this poor, sweet, innocent soul? I want to fly in and attend. After all, this kind, gentle young man was going to college... NEXT WEEK :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[Nick Young]

http://img.wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Hoft-Michael-Brown-2.jpg

What an adorable little tike. Your time came too soon bro! That juvenile murder charge was just a mistake, boys will be boys. And he was destined for college as well. The world lost an angel:cry: :cry: :cry:

[Nick Young]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmRx60RQNto
He was well loved in his neighborhood, for a juvenile murderer. Inspiring riots like Mao Zedong.