The Centers of the 70's...How Would They Fare Today?

[LAZERUSS]

Kareem, Gilmore, Moses, McAdoo, Lanier, Unseld, Hayes, Cowens, and a healthy Walton.

What do you think?

[CavaliersFTW]

we'd be in an era of big men and high usage of post play again on whichever teams they played for if they all played today :rockon:

[deja vu]

They were all better basketball players than the supposed best center in the league Dwight Howard.

[LAZERUSS]

Obviously Kareem, Moses, and Gilmore would be great (and likely the other's, too), but a prime McAdoo would be real interesting. He had exceptional range for a center, and at his peak, he was routinely outscoring KAJ in their H2H's. He had games of 41 and 45 against Kareem (and in that 45 point game, he hit 17 straight FGAs.) And hs 74-75 season is arguably one of the greatest offensive seasons including the post-season, of all-time. He averaged 34.5 ppg on a .512 FG%, in a league that only averaged 102.6 ppg (on a .457 eFG%.) Compare that with just the last NBA season, which averaged 101.0 ppg on a .501 eFG%. And McAdoo ran away with that scoring title, as well (Barry was next at 30.6 ppg, and Kareem was at 27.7 ppg.) He then averaged 37.4 ppg in the post-season, which included this 50 point outburst against the Bullets...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuQ3unu2YAQ

[pudman13]

I wonder most about Cowens, given that he was undersized and offensively played so often away from the basket. Maybe that actually makes him more of a modern center? Maybe he would have developed a 3-point shot?

The game has certainly changed, and centers aren't emphasized like they once were, but I can't imagine a guy like Kareem not dominating, or a guy like Malone not winning rebound titles. I'd be most curious how a finesse guy like Walton would do--my guess is that he'd be amazing still.

Wes Unseld is "undersized" more than anyone, but he is the same height as Ben Wallace, with nowhere near the same kind of leaping ability, but a much better offensive game. I can't imagine he wouldn't be a great player today, but I do think he'd need to be paired with a tall PF, just as he wa with Elvin Hayes.

McAdoo would probably still score 30 points a game. He was as pure a shooter as any guard, and he was quick and flexible too (somewhere on youtube in one of the all-star games he makes a crazy play where he shifts from under one side of the basket to the other while in the air.) The modern player who most reminds me of him is Dirk Nowitzki, or maybe Kevin Durant.

I also think a beast (size-wise) like Gilmore (or Mark Eaton) would be a great part of a winning team, though not the focus of a team (not that they really ever were anyway.)

[Marchesk]

McAdoo > Durant

[Dragic4Life]

All bench players.

[Marchesk]

All bench players.

Would take over Lebron tbh

[LAZERUSS]

All bench players.

Oh no doubt. Most of them are well over 60 years old.

Kareem would probably only be a 20 ppg scorer right now.

[Dragic4Life]

Lebron in the 70s would surpass Russell as the GOAT with at least 15 rings.

Too easy and weak an era.

[riseagainst]

dragic4life is a f.a.g.g.ot in any era.

[Marchesk]

Lebron in the 70s would surpass Russell as the GOAT with at least 15 rings.

Too easy and weak an era.

Were are you getting the extra 5 rings from?

[Nikola_]

60s & 70s era lovers hide behind big boys because they know perimeter competition was whack...what else is new?

[pudman13]

McAdoo > Durant
I would like to agree with that, because McAdoo in his prime was a guy who could absolutely score at will (and, heck, was still that way as a bench player with the Lakers in the 80s), but my one big question about him is why there was a period in his career, when he still had his skills, when he was traded from team to team and nobody wanted him.

[WillC]

Kareem, Gilmore, Moses, McAdoo, Lanier, Unseld, Hayes, Cowens, and a healthy Walton.

What do you think?

On the whole, very well.

I'm going to use some comparisons that are by no means perfect, but help illustrate a few points:

- Bob Lanier's size and offensive game was somewhat similar to Al Jefferson's. He had a nice variety of low-post moves, baby hooks and a turnaround jump-shot. Neither were great defenders but both could get 10 boards a game. Lanier was a better passer. But they're similar players. Lanier would still be a 20/10 player in today's game.

- Bob McAdoo would probably be similar to Chris Bosh if he played today. Excellent range on his jump shot, a good but not great athlete, a better offensive than defensive player. Similar size. Again, I quite like this comparison. Like Bosh on the Raptors, I could see McAdoo putting up 25ppg in today's NBA if he was required to do so.

- Elvin Hayes would be at least as good as a prime Jermaine O'Neal (who people forget once finished 2nd in MVP voting) or maybe a prime Elton Brand. Great turn around jump shot, good size and defense. Hayes was a better rebounder than both. He'd be one of the best PF/Cs in the league if he played today.

- Bill Walton's all-around brilliance conjures up images of a Marc/Pau Gasol hybrid. He had Pau's passing ability (similarities to Chris Webber here too), Marc's defense (and strength) and Pau's post moves. Walton was better at shot-blocking than both of them. Prime Walton would be a superstar in today's game.

- Artis Gilmore reminds me a bit of Alonzo Mourning. Both were exceptionally strong, excellent defenders and shot-blockers, if a little lacking refinement. Neither were particularly good passers. Gilmore had a height advantage and I'm sure he could do a great job if he played today, albeit with some weaknesses in his game.

- It's very hard to find a fair comparison for Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and I'm sure people will dislike this comparison (I'm not a huge fan of it either, but bear with me). His freakish abilities remind me a little of Anthony Davis. Both had exceptionally long frames which gave them distinct advantages. Both were very fluid players despite their height. Kareem was 4 inches taller and a better play-maker at his position, but Davis might develop that part of his game. Like Davis, Kareem was an exceptional shot-blocker earlier in his career. I have little doubt that Kareem would be one of the top 2 or 3 players in the League today, maybe even the best.

- Moses Malone was obviously the greatest offensive rebounder since the League started recording that statistic. The modern day equivalent is Andre Drummond, who I can see developing into a 16/13 type of player. However, Drummond will never be the scorer that Malone was - there's a huge discrepancy in their free throw shooting. Both were poor passers. Drummond is a better athlete though. I suppose Malone was like a combination of Drummond and Kevin Love.

- Wes Unseld was one of the most unique players in NBA history. He might struggle today due to his lack of height but people thought the same in the 1970s and he was fine. In a way he was like a mini Joakim Noah, doing the little things to help his team win. That's a poor comparison on many levels though. He'd find a way to contribute in today's League. He'd be like some sort of weird Noah/Rodman/Diaw/Barkley hybrid.

- Last but not least, one of the most fun to watch players of all-time, Dave Cowens. Again, you could compare his energy levels to someone like Joakim Noah. In terms of size, rebounding and post game (not to mention passing), he could be compared to Kevin Love... but with Noah's passion and energy.

In conclusion, I think all of them would be stars today. They might not get quite so many points, rebounds or assists - the game has changed and become more perimeter/guard oriented - but they'd still be amongst the very best big men in the league. Obviously Kareem and Moses in particular.

[Dragic4Life]

Were are you getting the extra 5 rings from?
From the 80s because Lebron > Bird.

[Marchesk]

From the 80s because Lebron > Bird.

Peak-wise, it's debatable. But it's not 1 on 1, so what team is Lebron playing for? Are exchanging him with Dr J? Is he playing his career for the Bucks? Do you have him on the Lakers?

[JimmyMcAdocious]

we'd be in an era of big men and high usage of post play again on whichever teams they played for if they all played today :rockon:

I wonder if the change in NBA has more to do with a lack of bigmen or just a normal evolution in the game realizing 3>2, and you can effectively build a championship around that 3.

[G.O.A.T]

60s & 70s era lovers hide behind big boys because they know perimeter competition was whack...what else is new?

Imagine how much different the NBA today would be without a three point line. How many guys have to totally change their game to survive or thrive?

[G.O.A.T]

I think the three-point or needs to be a more difficult shot. That means widening court as well. 6 feet I think and move the line back 2 1/2 feet all around.

A shot that isn't difficult for an average player to make when open shouldn't be worth 50% more than a standard shot. A player only needs to make 33% of his threes to have the same impact per shot as someone shoots 50% from two.

If the best two point shooter rarely make over 60% of their two point shots, we need the best three point shooters around 40%. A lot of guys are approaching 50% these days. For thirty year The top shooters have all been better an 40% three point marksmen on an ever-increasing number of attempts.

The rules today heavily favor perimeter players, in the past they heavily favored big men. We need a middle ground so we can have a league with great players inside and out. Another thing I'd propose is getting of the zone exceptions and keeping the defensive three seconds without guarding rule.

[SexSymbol]

2-3 guys besides Kareem and Moses would be good rotation players. Others would lack the skill and stamina to participate in today's game

[pudman13]

2-3 guys besides Kareem and Moses would be good rotation players. Others would lack the skill and stamina to participate in today's game

Um...nobody had more skill and especially stamina than Dave Cowens.

Hayes was a stamina wonder too.

[L.Kizzle]

I think the three-point or needs to be a more difficult shot. That means widening court as well. 6 feet I think and move the line back 2 1/2 feet all around.

A shot that isn't difficult for an average player to make when open shouldn't be worth 50% more than a standard shot. A player only needs to make 33% of his threes to have the same impact per shot as someone shoots 50% from two.

If the best two point shooter rarely make over 60% of their two point shots, we need the best three point shooters around 40%. A lot of guys are approaching 50% these days. For thirty year The top shooters have all been better an 40% three point marksmen on an ever-increasing number of attempts.

The rules today heavily favor perimeter players, in the past they heavily favored big men. We need a middle ground so we can have a league with great players inside and out. Another thing I'd propose is getting of the zone exceptions and keeping the defensive three seconds without guarding rule.
I think it's fine. Three point line has been a success since the ABL days. All the other on court moves have been fine. Break-away rims,shot clock, Widening of the lane, adding the circle in the lane (that's gone now isn't it?) Adding length to the court will only bring other things up like making the hoop higher than 10 feet. Making the rim larger, adding a four point shot for Antoine Walker Jr., ect.

[MiseryCityTexas]

we'd be in an era of big men and high usage of post play again on whichever teams they played for if they all played today :rockon:


Obviously Kareem, Moses, and Gilmore would be great (and likely the other's, too), but a prime McAdoo would be real interesting. He had exceptional range for a center, and at his peak, he was routinely outscoring KAJ in their H2H's. He had games of 41 and 45 against Kareem (and in that 45 point game, he hit 17 straight FGAs.) And hs 74-75 season is arguably one of the greatest offensive seasons including the post-season, of all-time. He averaged 34.5 ppg on a .512 FG%, in a league that only averaged 102.6 ppg (on a .457 eFG%.) Compare that with just the last NBA season, which averaged 101.0 ppg on a .501 eFG%. And McAdoo ran away with that scoring title, as well (Barry was next at 30.6 ppg, and Kareem was at 27.7 ppg.) He then averaged 37.4 ppg in the post-season, which included this 50 point outburst against the Bullets...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuQ3unu2YAQ


Bob Mcadoo would annihilate today's NBA centers. He had some nice handles for a center and could easily drive past bigger defenders, and he also had a nice turnaround fallaway jumper as well as a reliable hook shot.....

[pudman13]

What I really wonder is how someone like George Johnson, who never played as much as 30 minutes a game, but who was a defensive force off the bench, and an absolute block machine, would fare today. I suspect that some of these "lesser" centers from this era would be starters today.

[La Frescobaldi]

2-3 guys besides Kareem and Moses would be good rotation players. Others would lack the skill and stamina to participate in today's game
pace was much quicker in the 70s, and far fewer timeouts (tv).

Stamina lulz

[La Frescobaldi]

I wonder most about Cowens, given that he was undersized and offensively played so often away from the basket. Maybe that actually makes him more of a modern center? Maybe he would have developed a 3-point shot?

The game has certainly changed, and centers aren't emphasized like they once were, but I can't imagine a guy like Kareem dominating, or a guy like Malone not winning rebound titles. I'd be most curious how a finesse guy like Walton would do--my guess is that he'd be amazing still.

Wes Unseld is "undersized" more than anyone, but he is the same height as Ben Wallace, with nowhere near the same kind of leaping ability, but a much better offensive game. I can't imagine he wouldn't be a great player today, but I do think he'd need to be paired with a tall PF, just as he wa with Elvin Hayes.

McAdoo would probably still score 30 points a game. He was as pure a shooter as any guard, and he was quick and flexible too (somewhere on youtube in one of the all-star games he makes a crazy play where he shifts from under one side of the basket to the other while in the air.) The modern player who most reminds me of him is Dirk Nowitzki, or maybe Kevin Durant.

I also think a beast (size-wise) like Gilmore (or Mark Eaton) would be a great part of a winning team, though not the focus of a team (not that they really ever were anyway.)

this is a really good post...... which makes me think that red stuff is a typo.

Also, A Train was the centerpiece of the ABA Champion Colonels from first to last although he had one of the all-time greats - who the OP most miserably forgot about - Dan Issel.

[La Frescobaldi]

Laz, not only did you forget about Big Dan Issel who was listed first to last as a 4/5, but where's Bob Rule at? And where's Dawkins? Darryl wasn't an all time great but he was a powerhouse at all times.

And okay I understand you leaving Wilt Chamberlain out... because you didn't want to see trolls bleeding from their eyeballs trying to attack the thread... but where's Nate Thurmond?

Captain Willis Reed took home two trophies in the 70s and yet you leave him out???

[L.Kizzle]

Laz, not only did you forget about Big Dan Issel who was listed first to last as a 4/5, but where's Bob Rule at? And where's Dawkins? Darryl wasn't an all time great but he was a powerhouse at all times.

And okay I understand you leaving Wilt Chamberlain out... because you didn't want to see trolls bleeding from their eyeballs trying to attack the thread... but where's Nate Thurmond?

Captain Willis Reed took home two trophies in the 70s and yet you leave him out???
More 60s era player maybe?

Also, no Walt Bellamy, Mel Daniels, Zelmo Beaty, Billy Paultz, ect.

[La Frescobaldi]

More 60s era player maybe?

Also, no Walt Bellamy, Mel Daniels, Zelmo Beaty, Billy Paultz, ect.

5 years in the 70s is 1/2 that decade.

And yeah - those guys too. C'mon Laz, step up thar, buddy!!

[pudman13]

this is a really good post...... which makes me think that red stuff is a typo.

Also, A Train was the centerpiece of the ABA Champion Colonels from first to last although he had one of the all-time greats - who the OP most miserably forgot about - Dan Issel.

It was a mistake! I'll fix it.

Issel was great. Like a few others (McGuinness comes to mind) it's too bad his best years were before he came to the NBA. The one ABA guy I really wonder about is Mel Daniels. How would he have fared in the NBA?

[LAZERUSS]

Laz, not only did you forget about Big Dan Issel who was listed first to last as a 4/5, but where's Bob Rule at? And where's Dawkins? Darryl wasn't an all time great but he was a powerhouse at all times.

And okay I understand you leaving Wilt Chamberlain out... because you didn't want to see trolls bleeding from their eyeballs trying to attack the thread... but where's Nate Thurmond?

Captain Willis Reed took home two trophies in the 70s and yet you leave him out???

Reed did win two FMVPs in the 70's, but realistically, his last great season was 1970. Bellamy had a very good year in '72 (19 ppg on a .545 FG%), but he was well past his prime.

Rule had about three solid seasons, and was on his way to a possibly great season in '71 when he suffered what would be a career ending injury.

Wilt was still a Top-4 MVP candidate in '72 and '73 (and a FMVP in '72), but this was a post-surgery Chamberlain in his last two seasons in the league (albeit, in 11 straight H2H's with Lanier, he averaged 24 ppg on a .784 FG%.)

Thurmond has a case, as he was still an elite defender up thru '73 (and he absolutely crushed Lanier in his H2H's), but then he was basically done.

The centers I mentioned were pretty much in their primes in the 70's, albeit, Walton's was very short-lived. And KAJ, Moses, and Gilmore were still dominant centers in the first half of the 80's.

If you want to include primes, then Bellamy, Reed, Thurmond, and Wilt were among the best ever.

[Big#50]

2-3 guys besides Kareem and Moses would be good rotation players. Others would lack the skill and stamina to participate in today's game
You know nothing. NO stamina????

[Dr.J4ever]

In general, centers from the 70s, who relied on post ups to score, would score less in today's game. Maybe 10-15% less, but not just because of the rules, but because of less opportunities.

If they play for bad teams today, it is possible that they score the same amount of points, but on good teams, they will definitely score less. To be a good team today, you need your share of 3s and penetration from the perimeter. Offensive efficiency would dictate this. This is true, at least for most good teams today.

Bob Mcadoo and Dan Issel would still be scoring machines. Interestingly, Dawkins was ahead of his time because he was a good perimeter scorer, but Billy C. just didn't want him taking outside shots. But Darryl looks like a modern day center.

I hated his inconsistency and his low iq play, though.

[Round Mound]

They Would Destroy The 10s. This is The Weakest Era Ever for Centers.

[JohnFreeman]

Riding the bench

[LAZERUSS]

Riding the bench

Yep. After all these skilled centers like the 6-11 Jordan, 6-10 Drummond, and 6-9 Howard, would physically overwhelm those short guys from the 70's. What chance would guys like the 7-2 Kareem, 7-2 Gilmore, and 7-1 Wilt, 6-11 Lanier, and 6-11 Walton have, right?

[ImKobe]

Wilt would average 12 ppg 8 rpg today

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt would average 12 ppg 8 rpg today

Yep....THIS Chamberlain would only be a 12-8 guy in today's NBA...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCWrGWuU2Ak

[houston]

good player be a good player in any era