(serious discussion) Does LeBron make his superstar teammates worse?

[Kidbasketball20]

It basically comes down to other superstars accepting #2, #3 roles in order to help LeBron's game.

Then Wade's stats took a major tumble (injuries, age, etc...) and Bosh has been a shell of himself in the playoffs.

The difference is Kevin Love is 25 and Irving is 22. LeBron is practically 30 and has only a few more years to make a major impact. What if doesn't do it in the next 2 years? How long does Kevin Love accept a #2 role when his stats would be so much more significant as a #1 option?


LeBron's either going to leave the Cavs, or accept being a #3 veteran role to Love/Irving if he wants to win rings. He has these 2 years as a #1 and that's it.

[Meticode]

No he doesn't. Wade and Bosh took and accepted lesser roles becuse they needed to. LeBron is obviously the best player on the team and in the NBA at the time. If anything they got more efficient because they got better shows and didn't need to take as many shots anymore.

[dubeta]

Lets see what Miami does next year to find out

If they make the finals you're right, if not you're wrong

[J Shuttlesworth]

Considering Bosh has 2 rings now and Wade has 3, I will say no.

They take lesser roles, but they aren't worse players. Wade is only worse because of his knees.

[305Baller]

LeBron-ball will win you some games but it is not championship worthy.

Too much drive and kick in Miami.

[Suguru101]

You are underestimating the context of why Wade and Bosh had to change so much their games:

Wade was primarily a slasher that was at his best by having the ball and creating for himself and others.

LeBron was a slasher/inconsistent shooter who needed the ball in the perimeter and in his hands to truly shine and to be dominant.

Bosh had a soft touch, but in 2011 he didn't have long range and he needed the ball to shine.

That changed after a few years and they were able to coexist, but by that time Wade had declined and Bosh felt more comfortable releasing pressure from the offense by being a shooter.

Now, in 2015 with the Cavs this is the situation:

LeBron is a post/mid-range player who is still an exceptional slasher, but he can shoot consistently and doesn't need the ball to succeed as much as before.

Kevin Love is a post player/long-range shooter who is best at pnr's and getting the ball after somebody has attracted attention/created for him.

Kyrie Irving is a slasher/shooter who is best with the ball in his hands, but has the necessary shotting/cutting skills to still be effective without the ball in his hands for some stretches of the game.


This team will fit much better, mainly because of Love and because LeBron has changed his game.

[305Baller]

You are underestimating the context of why Wade and Bosh had to change so much their games:

Wade was primarily a slasher that was at his best by having the ball and creating for himself and others.

LeBron was a slasher/inconsistent shooter who needed the ball in the perimeter and in his hands to truly shine and to be dominant.

Bosh had a soft touch, but in 2011 he didn't have long range and he needed the ball to shine.

That changed after a few years and they were able to coexist, but by that time Wade had declined and Bosh felt more comfortable releasing pressure from the offense by being a shooter.

Now, in 2015 with the Cavs this is the situation:

LeBron is a post/mid-range player who is still an exceptional slasher, but he can shoot consistently and doesn't need the ball to succeed as much as before.

Kevin Love is a post player/long-range shooter who is best at pnr's and getting the ball after somebody has attracted attention/created for him.

Kyrie Irving is a slasher/shooter who is best with the ball in his hands, but has the necessary shotting/cutting skills to still be effective without the ball in his hands for some stretches of the game.


This team will fit much better, mainly because of Love and because LeBron has changed his game.


no. LeBron needs his touches.

[Suguru101]

no. LeBron needs his touches.

He does, but he isn't as dependent on them for having a major impact as he was in 2011-2012.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Lebron James apologists love citing per and win shares when it comes to his own statistics but never cite when highlighting how much "better" he makes his all star teammates. Imagine that :confusedshrug:

[JT123]

Lebron James apologists love citing per and win shares when it comes to his own statistics but never cite when highlighting how much "better" he makes his all star teammates. Imagine that :confusedshrug:
What you talking bout man? :biggums:
Bosh and Wade have both had their most efficient seasons with Lebron as their teammate. But of course Kobe stans think ppg is the only thing that makes someone better. :lol I'm sure Bosh misses averaging 24 ppg while missing the playoffs.

[Bandito]

Stats says he don't. /thread

[Kidbasketball20]

Stats says he don't. /thread

You don't need math to tell me that Bosh looks worse than he did at the start of the Heat "dynasty" same as Wade.

[VIP2000]

You don't need math to tell me that Bosh looks worse than he did at the start of the Heat "dynasty" same as Wade.

Because he went from the 1st option to the 3rd option, dumbass.

[knickswoman]

considering AI and robertson were considered cancers and bran couldnt deliver more than kobe despite having the best teammates in the history of the league. Then only morons couldnt see it.

[BoutPractice]

LeBron makes his superstar teammates multiple NBA champions.

Irving and Love's career paths have just taken a dramatic turn. They will now be remembered as "winners". Even if they never win a championship, you won't be able to call them playoff virgins, or first round virgins.

Their legacies are significantly enhanced by playing next to LeBron. If you can't be Jordan, would you rather be James Worthy or Al Jefferson? Kevin McHale or Stephon Marbury?

[oarabbus]

Lebron makes anyone better that plays with him.

[ImKobe]

Numbers are obviously going to regress if you have 3 1st-option caliber players on the same team. There are not enough touches to go around for the entire team if all of them were to get 20 shots a game...It's a TEAM game. Roles change when adding 3 #1s together. You can only have one number 1 option and two guys that share the same amount of shots, or 1a + 1b and the 3rd guy getting 10 or so shots a game.

[ImKobe]

Lebron makes anyone better that plays with him.

This is not true. Making a player better would mean that their efficiency/production goes up. That is not the case with every player. You think Love's production next season is going to be on par or better than his production in the 2013-14 season, statistically? Hell no. He's not going to average 26 & 12. Kyrie isn't going to average 21 & 6 or higher. Someone needs to make a sacrifice in order for the team to have better chemistry and win more games/be more deadlier on the offensive end. It's why Miami didn't ring the first year.

[JohnFreeman]

No. Wade was hobbled, and Bosh didn't want to play back to the basket.

[BoutPractice]

This is not true. Making a player better would mean that their efficiency/production goes up. That is not the case with every player. You think Love's production next season is going to be on par or better than his production in the 2013-14 season, statistically? Hell no. He's not going to average 26 & 12. Kyrie isn't going to average 21 & 6 or higher. Someone needs to make a sacrifice in order for the team to have better chemistry and win more games/be more deadlier on the offensive end. It's why Miami didn't ring the first year.
Better raw stats doesn't mean better player.

Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker are better than a great many players who have had more impressive looking raw stats.

The same goes for many number 2s and 3s on dynasties. Take a group of Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman, James Worthy, Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, John Havlicek, and Sam Jones in title seasons where they played a key role... contrast with a group of Glen Rice, Derrick Coleman, Shareef Abdur Rahim, Antoine Walker, Al Jefferson, and Monta Ellis, each in their best statistical season.

Which would you rather have on your team?

[SouBeachTalents]

It's unbelievable how often Chris Bosh is considered a superstar

[pauk]

Superstars? Now everybody who plays with Lebron immediately become superstars?

I think you unintentionally answered your own question....


But anyways, why should they become worse? How is that possible? Because of PPG? Did their abilities got worse due to playing with Lebron or something? Did Wade/Bosh made Lebron worse aswell because he didnt have to score/shoot as much as before (hence lower PPG) in order to win? Did his teams & or his teammates overall team success become worse? There you have it....

The reality is, Lebron is a guy who plays the game the right way i would say, he has the mindset & the tools (unselfishness/vision/handling/passing/decision making) to make his teammates jobs easier, whoever it is....... sure they wont average career PPG's, but they will be more efficient & impactful due to the total impact/outcome/success they will have as a unit..... the career PPGs/shots they had previously was due to necessity and the lower PPGs/shots they will get playing with Lebron is also due to necessity, a sacrifice for winning basketball....

This goes for any leading superstars teammates in NBA history....
you put for example Stockton or Pippen or Ginobili or Westbrook or 00-03 Kobe or Kukoc as a 1st option (removing Jordan / Durant / Shaq / Parker / Duncan / Malone) and they would logically out of necessity be forced to shoot & hence score more... they are just advancing differently for the better of the team, advancing differently than they would without those guys leading them....