The Dangers of Weight Training for Basketball Players

[eliteballer]

T-Mac
Garnett
Kobe
Jordan
Wilt
Yao

What do all of these guys have in common? Major knee problems after bulking up.

T-Mac added a ton of mass when he joined Houston and ended up shredding his knees.

Garnett bulked up when he joined the Celtics and had a major knee injury in 2009, was never the same.

Kobe bulked up for 2003, needed knee and shoulder surgeries in the summer. Bulked up again in 2005, had major knee problems in throughout 2006 and got surgery that summer.

Jordan bulked up majorly in 96, had knee problems throughout and slimmed down in 1997, he talks about it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn05ZJo53WA&t=6m52s

Wilt bulked up when he went to the Lakers. Major knee injury in 1970.

Yao, same thing problems with his legs/feet when he stated bulking.

There's more. Sure, some players have frames that can handle it but most should be careful when doing it. Knee problems, Back problems, pulling out shoulders, messing up tendons. etc A lot of times it's because guys don't work the legs enough.

Too much weight just puts too much pressure on the body in a sport that is all about running, jumping, explosive moves and cuts, and agility on the floor.

[oarabbus]

Adding something like 5-10 lbs of muscle really shouldn't be a problem. 15-20 pounds, yeah you could be putting too much strain on your body unless you have that kind of frame. For centers though, 15-20 is probably fine. Depending on how big the guy he, he might be able to add 30-35lbs and be at ideal weight.

[eliteballer]

Adding something like 5-10 lbs of muscle really shouldn't be a problem. 15-20 pounds, yeah you could be putting too much strain on your body unless you have that kind of frame. For centers though, 15-20 is probably fine. Depending on how big the guy he, he might be able to add 30-35lbs and be at ideal weight.

yeah but you have to remember taller guys like 7 footers have more fragile bodies, especially the lower extremities.

Oden also started having all his problems when he bulked up in the NBA, I didn't put him there because many think he was just naturally frail(which is true to an extent).

[dubeta]

Worked ok for Dwight and LeBron

[buddha]

more proof LeBron and Wade are on HGH/TRT

[eliteballer]

Worked ok for Dwight and LeBron

Dwight's shoulder injury ring a bell? There are guys who are exceptions like LeBron.

[kshutts1]

Obvious factor is time. Over what time frame is this added weight being added? Any weight of any kind can be harmful, if increased too much too fast. Whether it's fat, pads, actual weights, or even muscle.

Anyone putting on 15-20 lbs of muscle in a summer, yeah, that's something of which to be concerned.

[RoseCity07]

Adding muscle shouldn't hurt you it's the fat that kills them. There is a way to add muscle and lose fat at the same time. It requires strict nutrition. You need a 10 to 20 percent caloric deficit. Then you need to get your protein, healthy fats, and complex carbs with what you have left.

[TheNaturalWR]

Adding muscle shouldn't hurt you it's the fat that kills them. There is a way to add muscle and lose fat at the same time. It requires strict nutrition. You need a 10 to 20 percent caloric deficit. Then you need to get your protein, healthy fats, and complex carbs with what you have left.

Bruh....that shit is close to impossible to do and the way to do it is inefficient to say the least unless you jump on some shit(which they most likely do). Building muscle requires gaining weight and losing fat requires losing weight. You can't do both at the same time.

[RoseCity07]

Bruh....that shit is close to impossible to do and the way to do it is inefficient to say the least unless you jump on some shit(which they most likely do). Building muscle requires gaining weight and losing fat requires losing weight. You can't do both at the same time.

No, gaining muscle requires your body to be in an anabolic state. That means getting the proper macros. It's easy to hit target macros while bulking but it's a lazy method. Bulking will help you add muscle but then you have to do more work to burn the fat. A caloric deficit is how you lose weight. It's easier to not eat something than it is to burn the calories.

If you get your macros but eat under your your energy requirments to maintain body weight you will gain muscle and lose fat.

[NattyPButter]

Dwight's shoulder injury ring a bell? There are guys who are exceptions like LeBron.

are u freaking serious? NVM you are since you asked the question. Dwights weight has nothing to do with his shoulders. He's not running and jumping on his shoulders for weight to be even a problem.

[Beastmode88]

Weight training is not all for hypertrophy purposes.. strength and conditioning are whats important. Everyone has this idea lifting will get u big. Look up powerlifters vs bodybuilders, same concept.

[ballup]

And yet most other NBA players who weight train don't get major knee problems.

[TheNaturalWR]

No, gaining muscle requires your body to be in an anabolic state. That means getting the proper macros. It's easy to hit target macros while bulking but it's a lazy method. Bulking will help you add muscle but then you have to do more work to burn the fat. A caloric deficit is how you lose weight. It's easier to not eat something than it is to burn the calories.

If you get your macros but eat under your your energy requirments to maintain body weight you will gain muscle and lose fat.

You have no idea what you're talking about, seriously. You do know anabolic means eating right? "Proper macros" means you have a specific caloric goal. Please tell me how you build muscle when you don't even have enough energy to maintain your body's current weight. There's only one way to build muscle and that's by eating at a caloric surplus with a sufficient amount of protein. The only time you're going to build muscle and lose fat at the same time is when you're an obese **** who just started lifting. Other than that, it's only possible on gear and recomps.

Caloric deficit = losing fat = losing weight. How on earth can you build muscle when you're losing weight?

[CavaliersFTW]

Wilt's knees gave him problems since he was a teenager... He stated his knees actually felt "fine" for the first time (ever in his playing career) after he started resistance training in the ocean running through cold water mirroring thoroughbred race horse exercises after he was already 35 years old and 310lbs as a Laker. Where as you "couldn't touch them" in his prime, such as 1967, when both knees were so inflamed in the playoffs he had trouble walking up and down stairs and had to sit under a heat lamp for several hours to loosen up just to play. So is it weight from bulking up that causes problems? Maybe. But in Wilt's case at least, he proved it also could be something more, perhaps the knees just need to be exercised properly.

Also, to say "Wilt bulked up with the Lakers" - eh. Wilt lifted weights from the age of 15 and on, not from the Lakers years and on. He was "bulking up" every season. Went from 258lbs as a rookie to 320lbs by only his 5th NBA season, "slimmed down" back to 292lbs and stayed at about 290lbs through most of his prime. Was 300-310lbs as a Laker, 10-20lbs on a frame his size isn't that big of a jump, especially considering he had already been 320lbs before, and didn't get knee injuries then.

[Guy Dudebro]

EVERY NBA player lift weights, quick, run, go tell them!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Swaggin916]

If you are a basketball player, you want to be as explosive as possible with the least amount of weight as possible... unless you want to be a grounded player who doesn't move quickly like a Randolph. That is disadvantageous outside of half court though there just aren't many players like that who make it. Not much resistance training in needed in basketball... mostly maintenance work, stretching, core work/stability, and overall body lifts like deadlifts and cleans which can be done explosively with light weight and produce results.

[Inactive]

Most basketball players will eventually end up with knee/ankle/foot problems. It's one of the dangers of basketball, not weight training.

[Cali Syndicate]

No, gaining muscle requires your body to be in an anabolic state. That means getting the proper macros. It's easy to hit target macros while bulking but it's a lazy method. Bulking will help you add muscle but then you have to do more work to burn the fat. A caloric deficit is how you lose weight. It's easier to not eat something than it is to burn the calories.

If you get your macros but eat under your your energy requirments to maintain body weight you will gain muscle and lose fat.

You need protein to build muscle. You need carbs to fuel your muscles. If you don't eat enough carbs, your body goes into a state of ketosis, burning fat for energy, but that's after it starts feeding off its muscle glycogen, catabolism. If this happens, yes you will end up burning fat but you will also end up losing muscle tissue. Furthermore, you don't enough carbs, the body will start breaking down the protein you intake into calories for energy, which means your muscles won't be getting enough protein to build.

First you bulk up, then you diet to maintain the muscle and work to burn the fat.

[iznogood]

You need protein to build muscle. You need carbs to fuel your muscles. If you don't eat enough carbs, your body goes into a state of ketosis, burning fat for energy, but that's after it starts feeding off its muscle glycogen, catabolism. If this happens, yes you will end up burning fat but you will also end up losing muscle tissue. Furthermore, you don't enough carbs, the body will start breaking down the protein you intake into calories for energy, which means your muscles won't be getting enough protein to build.

First you bulk up, then you diet to maintain the muscle and work to burn the fat.
For ketosis to actually happen you also need to limit the amount of proteins you eat since the body will transform the surplus to glucose. It also doesn't mean you're necessarily going to be burning more fat (or burning fat exclusively) - if you're not in a caloric deficit, you will not. As for loosing muscle tissue, you'll always loose some while cutting, no matter what your macros are.

[DoodleDa]

No, gaining muscle requires your body to be in an anabolic state. That means getting the proper macros. It's easy to hit target macros while bulking but it's a lazy method. Bulking will help you add muscle but then you have to do more work to burn the fat. A caloric deficit is how you lose weight. It's easier to not eat something than it is to burn the calories.

If you get your macros but eat under your your energy requirments to maintain body weight you will gain muscle and lose fat.

Dude you really don't know what you're talking about.

[ImKobe]

are u freaking serious? NVM you are since you asked the question. Dwights weight has nothing to do with his shoulders. He's not running and jumping on his shoulders for weight to be even a problem.

He had a pretty serious lower back injury.

Weight can certainly be a factor. Look how quickly Shaq declined after he stopped taking care of his body and how his career ended with achilles problems in 2011.

[SupermanOnSteroids]

Apparently, historically, for shooters at least, gaining muscle throws off their shot. So them avoiding it is understandable.

But that still shouldn't stop PFs (unless you're Dirk) and Cs from it.

[Soundwave]

There is some truth to this to an extent.

If you put on more mass, even if its the cleanest mass possible from a basketball POV your knees are going to take more of a pounding every time you jump and land.

[ImKobe]

Apparently, historically, for shooters at least, gaining muscle throws off their shot. So them avoiding it is understandable.

But that still shouldn't stop PFs (unless you're Dirk) and Cs from it.

Funny that Lebron had his best 3pt shooting seasons after bulking up (in Miami).

[SamuraiSWISH]

I never understood the need to gain so much upper body weight among modern basketball players. Being strong is one thing. But like many intelligent people in this thread have said ... it's better to be wirey strong, yet flexible, quick, and fast. Strong core is most important.

And as OP noticed, too much weight gain upper body wise creates unnecessary stress on the lower body in a game built on change of pace, constant movement, quick acceleration, etc.

The only reason Bron hasn't had some catastrophic lower body injury considering his size, and the type of PG perimeter game he plays is because unlike most of these guys who have STICK FIGURE thin lower bodies, and legs? Bron has strong, football player type lower legs.

But even for him it's important to lose weight. As he's done this summer, appropriately.

MJ gained too much upper body mass in '96, had knee and quickness issues by the end of the season. Dropped weight for the 1997 season, regained explosion, and lower body endurance.

In 2002 he had gotten even bigger with weight gain during retirement, and he saw his first major knee injury that season.

Kobe gained 15 pounds of upper body muscle in the summer of 2002. A season of playing on it gave him a rash of knee injuries. Same thing happened to him in 2005.

In basketball it's best to be sleek, strong, agile, with ample body dexterity if you're a perimeter based player. In the post? I can see being bigger, as there is lest torque on lower body given the style of play.

[ImKobe]

I never understood the need to gain so much upper body weight among modern basketball players. Being strong is one thing. But like many intelligent people in this thread have said ... it's better to be wirey strong, yet flexible, quick, and fast. Strong core is most important.

And as OP noticed, too much weight gain upper body wise creates unnecessary stress on the lower body in a game built on change of pace, constant movement, quick acceleration, etc.

The only reason Bron hasn't had some catastrophic lower body injury considering his size, and the type of PG perimeter game he plays is because unlike most of these guys who have STICK FIGURE thin lower bodies, and legs? Bron has strong, football player type lower legs.

But even for him it's important to lose weight. As he's done this summer, appropriately.

MJ gained too much upper body mass in '96, had knee and quickness issues by the end of the season. Dropped weight for the 1997 season, regained explosion, and lower body endurance.

In 2002 he had gotten even bigger with weight gain during retirement, and he saw his first major knee injury that season.

Kobe gained 15 pounds of upper body muscle in the summer of 2002. A season of playing on it gave him a rash of knee injuries. Same thing happened to him in 2005.

In basketball it's best to be sleek, strong, agile, with ample body dexterity if you're a perimeter based player. In the post? I can see being bigger, as there is lest torque on lower body given the style of play.


Look how much Duncan improved and prolonged his career by losing weight.

[AirFederer]

The effect of Winstrol...?

https://www.google.no/search?q=winstrol+dry+joints&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.*******:nb-NO:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb&gfe_rd=cr&ei=NwH7U-_0LImA8QfBl4DYCw

[SpanishACB]

The dangers of jumping so much you simploid.

:facepalm

[theaussieguy]

this thread is completely ****ing stupid, the reason why i never get injured, literally have never sustained an injury since I was 17, is because of weights. While all my friends who dont lift get thrown around the court and are always falling over and hurting themselves because they have no lower strength foundation.

[Real Men Wear Green]

T-Mac
Garnett
Kobe
Jordan
Wilt
Yao

What do all of these guys have in common? Major knee problems after bulking up.

T-Mac added a ton of mass when he joined Houston and ended up shredding his knees.

Garnett bulked up when he joined the Celtics and had a major knee injury in 2009, was never the same.

Kobe bulked up for 2003, needed knee and shoulder surgeries in the summer. Bulked up again in 2005, had major knee problems in throughout 2006 and got surgery that summer.

Jordan bulked up majorly in 96, had knee problems throughout and slimmed down in 1997, he talks about it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn05ZJo53WA&t=6m52s

Wilt bulked up when he went to the Lakers. Major knee injury in 1970.

Yao, same thing problems with his legs/feet when he stated bulking.

There's more. Sure, some players have frames that can handle it but most should be careful when doing it. Knee problems, Back problems, pulling out shoulders, messing up tendons. etc A lot of times it's because guys don't work the legs enough.

Too much weight just puts too much pressure on the body in a sport that is all about running, jumping, explosive moves and cuts, and agility on the floor.
A lot of those guys just got old. Jordan may rightly have felt that he was too heavy but that's a different issue. Garnett didn't bulk up as a Celtic.
http://jocksandstilettojill.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/KG.jpeg compared to http://boston.sportsthenandnow.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/02.kevin-garnett-257x300.jpg
It is the size he's been for much of his career, he was only skinny when he was young.

I do agree that too much weight can be bad for the knees but of the guys you discuss only Yao and McGrady ended their careers prematurely and McGrady really wasn't that big:

http://trendspig.com/static/f72f8de91cbfa94b36d1167eec593041.jpg

Like Yao he was just unlucky with injuries.

I completely understand why you'd view lifting as a danger but what you should understand is that lifting weights doesn't mean a guy is going to be 30 lbs. heavier. You can even lose weight while lifting. I would bet that Derek Fisher lifted as much as anyone in league history and he stuck around until he was near or at 40. In the link you posted MJ is only talking about losing weight, he doesn't say he stopped lifting. He talks about keeping his same level of strength which almost undoubtedly means he still lifted he probably just changed some things up in his diet.

[dgaras]

thats what happens when you dont train legs. all these guys just do biceps and chest never training their lower body. doesnt take a genius

[eliteballer]

A lot of those guys just got old. Jordan may rightly have felt that he was too heavy but that's a different issue. Garnett didn't bulk up as a Celtic.
http://jocksandstilettojill.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/KG.jpeg compared to http://boston.sportsthenandnow.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/02.kevin-garnett-257x300.jpg
It is the size he's been for much of his career, he was only skinny when he was young.

I do agree that too much weight can be bad for the knees but of the guys you discuss only Yao and McGrady ended their careers prematurely and McGrady really wasn't that big:

http://trendspig.com/static/f72f8de91cbfa94b36d1167eec593041.jpg

Like Yao he was just unlucky with injuries.

I completely understand why you'd view lifting as a danger but what you should understand is that lifting weights doesn't mean a guy is going to be 30 lbs. heavier. You can even lose weight while lifting. I would bet that Derek Fisher lifted as much as anyone in league history and he stuck around until he was near or at 40. In the link you posted MJ is only talking about losing weight, he doesn't say he stopped lifting. He talks about keeping his same level of strength which almost undoubtedly means he still lifted he probably just changed some things up in his diet.

Might be pictures from his later years when he slimmed down after the injury but he was definitely bigger his first year:

http://www2.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/NBA+Finals+Game+2+Los+Angeles+Lakers+v+Boston+-_fJRqk15zhl.jpg

http://thestartingfive.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.jpg

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/06262008si535.jpg

[RoseCity07]

Dude you really don't know what you're talking about.

You need to watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi-jnsG0Z7Y

[RoseCity07]

You have no idea what you're talking about, seriously. You do know anabolic means eating right? "Proper macros" means you have a specific caloric goal. Please tell me how you build muscle when you don't even have enough energy to maintain your body's current weight. There's only one way to build muscle and that's by eating at a caloric surplus with a sufficient amount of protein. The only time you're going to build muscle and lose fat at the same time is when you're an obese **** who just started lifting. Other than that, it's only possible on gear and recomps.

Caloric deficit = losing fat = losing weight. How on earth can you build muscle when you're losing weight?

Bolded is wrong. You also don't know what the word anabolic means.

Proper macros means for building muscle mean that you are getting a higher percentage of protein and carbs than fat. 40/40/20 is what I aim for.

I've cut from 190 to 170. Added 80 to my bench press over the past year. I've been playing the best ball of my life. I guess I don't know what's I'm talking about because you said it.

[LBJ 23]

You need to watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi-jnsG0Z7Y


Scooby is not the best example to listen to. I don't have time to search for Layne Norton, Aragorn, Eric Helms, Lyle vids talking about this topic so here's a vid of Omar. Not that he is some big brain when it comes to those topics but he's usually sharing the right informations and the truth even though he's just copying what other more quailified people on this field are saying. And he's a funny dude aswell :oldlol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDTSZVCm-jA

[RoseCity07]

Scooby is not the best example to listen to. I don't have time to search for Layne Norton, Aragorn, Eric Helms, Lyle vids talking about this topic so here's a vid of Omar. Not that he is some big brain when it comes to those topics but he's usually sharing the right informations and the truth even though he's just copying what other more quailified people on this field are saying. And he's a funny dude aswell :oldlol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDTSZVCm-jA


I watch it. I'll have to check them out. All I can say is Scooby's advice has worked very well for me. I trust a guy that looks like that in his mid 50's. Scooby is great. He has the experience and gives solid lifting advice.

[kshutts1]

Is there a weight-lifting subforum on here? Would make sense, this being a sports forum.

Would be nice to get some input/feedback from some of the more experienced lifters/athletes. Getting difficult to maintain my physique/fitness at 29-almost-30.

[LBJ 23]

I watch it. I'll have to check them out. All I can say is Scooby's advice has worked very well for me. I trust a guy that looks like that in his mid 50's. Scooby is great. He has the experience and gives solid lifting advice.


I agree with you. I used some of his advices aswell and it worked great for me. But he was almost 100% on juice at some point/he probably still is, so I can't take his advices serious when he talks about topics where if you are juicing or not makes a huge difference. And what you're talking about in this thread sadly is on of those topics where being on steroids or not makes a huge difference. So those who are on gear go ahead and listen to his advices, but if you're truly naturally trying to achieve something then it probably won't work for you.

[chosen_one6]

Bolded is wrong. You also don't know what the word anabolic means.

Proper macros means for building muscle mean that you are getting a higher percentage of protein and carbs than fat. 40/40/20 is what I aim for.

I've cut from 190 to 170. Added 80 to my bench press over the past year. I've been playing the best ball of my life. I guess I don't know what's I'm talking about because you said it.

You're wrong dude. You can't effectively gain lots of muscle while also cutting. It's just not physically possible. I think my college professor that is a dietician would know, and she's been studying nutrition since the 60's.

Also, cutting 20 pounds but also adding 80 pounds to your bench press does not tell us that you gained muscle. All it tells us is that you got stronger. It IS possible to slim down and get stronger. It is not possible however, to slim down and get bigger at the same time. You may THINK you are, because when you get more cut your muscles look much more pronounced. But you're not actually getting bigger muscle.

[iznogood]

You're wrong dude. You can't effectively gain lots of muscle while also cutting. It's just not physically possible. I think my college professor that is a dietician would know, and she's been studying nutrition since the 60's.

Also, cutting 20 pounds but also adding 80 pounds to your bench press does not tell us that you gained muscle. All it tells us is that you got stronger. It IS possible to slim down and get stronger. It is not possible however, to slim down and get bigger at the same time. You may THINK you are, because when you get more cut your muscles look much more pronounced. But you're not actually getting bigger muscle.
Great post, I completely agree.

Also I have hard time taking Scooby serious, the guy is obviously juicing and is lying about it.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Might be pictures from his later years when he slimmed down after the injury but he was definitely bigger his first year:

http://www2.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/NBA+Finals+Game+2+Los+Angeles+Lakers+v+Boston+-_fJRqk15zhl.jpg

http://thestartingfive.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.jpg

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/06262008si535.jpg
The size difference you think you're seeing is just flexing. Look at one of the pics you posted:
http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/06262008si535.jpg
I'm sure you did some kind of internet search for pics and this was pretty much the limit to what you could find. A basic KG Celtic image search:

https://www.google.com/search?q=garnett+celtic&client=firefox-a&hs=21g&rls=org.*******:en-US:official&channel=sb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Wvr9U7rqCoq_sQSBh4CYBQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAg&biw=1920&bih=920

All he has ever done, in terms of getting bigger, was bulk up to a size that's stereotypical for an NBA seven-footer. Nor was there any bulking down post-injury, I saw almost every game he played as a Celtic and he's maintained the same size. He got injured, he got old, he declined. When he was 33 (or something) he had a knee injury. That happens in a career. It was his 14th or 15th season. Is it really that hard to believe a guy can get hurt with that long a career? He''s actually been blessed in terms of a durability and even managed to return at a high level, just not as good as he was before because, coming back at 34, he was bound to lose something.

[TheNaturalWR]

Bolded is wrong. You also don't know what the word anabolic means.

Proper macros means for building muscle mean that you are getting a higher percentage of protein and carbs than fat. 40/40/20 is what I aim for.

I've cut from 190 to 170. Added 80 to my bench press over the past year. I've been playing the best ball of my life. I guess I don't know what's I'm talking about because you said it.

You're in an anabolic state when you're eating. And all this anabolic/catabolic shit is retarded anyway. There is no "proper" macros, it solely depends on that person. You could build muscle on keto if you wanted to which some people do. I'm on a 40/20/40 macro split and I'm building muscle just fine. Caloric surplus is by far the most important thing when it comes to building muscle.

You could absolutely get stronger while losing weight however to your extent? No offense but your bench was probably ridiculously low to start and most of it was just neural adaptation. Please explain to me how it's possible to lose weight but GAIN muscle(WHICH IS WEIGHT) at the same time? You're basically arguing against physics. There's 2 ways to do what you say is possible, a) body re-composition which is highly ineffective or b) gear.

[RoseCity07]

I agree with you. I used some of his advices aswell and it worked great for me. But he was almost 100% on juice at some point/he probably still is, so I can't take his advices serious when he talks about topics where if you are juicing or not makes a huge difference. And what you're talking about in this thread sadly is on of those topics where being on steroids or not makes a huge difference. So those who are on gear go ahead and listen to his advices, but if you're truly naturally trying to achieve something then it probably won't work for you.

He's explained that it took him 17 years to develop his chest to that point. He doesn't even lift to gain mass anymore as he's reached his genetic potential. He works out to maintain. As for juicing, you don't look like that at 55 if you did roids.

As for the other poster, that's twice now that some poster put words in my mouth. "Lots of muscle"...I said you could add muscle and burn fat. Now we're getting into semantics and communication is breaking down. I said you can do it.

As for measuring my progress, I use a skin fold caliper to track body fat percentage. That allows me to know when I'm adding muscle mass instead of fat. Yes my abs are more cut because I've cut but my chest has definitely gained mass. I guess they are noob gains, but still gains.

[Smoke117]

Your Kevin Garnett analysis is a bunch of horse shit. If he was bigger it was barely and it had no bearing on his injury. You know what did? The fact that he was in his 14th season and had played a lot of minutes throughout his career.