Not 5, but 8 reasons why LeBron James is greater than Michael Jordan (Times piece)

[mehyaM24]

1. Defensive Versatility

Michael Jordan used his speed and athleticism to shut down opposing perimeter players and generate turnovers. But James is just as athletic and he is capable of dominating almost any opposing player from point guards to power forwards. He is even capable of playing against some centers on defense.

To illustrate the difference between Jordan and James, let

[dubeta]

:applause:

I'd like to see what the guy that keeps spamming MJ > LeBron threads have to say about this

[SouBeachTalents]

Sorry, but Jordan never did this

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg

[Mr.Kite]

6/6

[JT123]

:applause: It's nice to know that not everyone has been brainwashed by the Jordan hype machine that is the media.

[mehyaM24]

:applause:

I'd like to see what the guy that keeps spamming MJ > LeBron threads have to say about this

who? whatever the case, 8 > 5.

regarding the article, i love the bit about his defense. lebron is such a defensive behemoth that, he can disrupt all sorts of offenses outside his natural position. :applause:

[outbreak]

nope

[JT123]

Sorry, but Jordan never did this

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg
What exactly is this supposed to prove? :wtf:
Lebron is a PASS FIRST all around player. Bringing up his point totals when he was deferring to Wade really makes no sense.

[nathanjizzle]

only retards think that lebron > mj is a legitimate argument at this point.

[andgar923]

What exactly is this supposed to prove? :wtf:
Lebron is a PASS FIRST all around player. Bringing up his point totals when he was deferring to Wade really makes no sense.

Makes sense if you want to WIN.

[sportjames23]

Lebron trolls are the most delusioned little fakkits anywhere. Even the most absurd Kobe stan never showed his ass like this.

2/5 and disappearing in the 4th Quarters of NBA Finals alone ensure Lebron will NEVER be on or above MJ's level.

Should be automatic bans handed out for this kind of tomfoolery.

[mehyaM24]

i dont think lebron is greater, yet at least, but he is better all-around. without a doubt.

with the 3 point shot, dude has no weaknesses in his game (jordan's 3pt shot was suspect).

[sportjames23]

i dont think lebron is greater, yet at least, but he is better all-around. without a doubt.

with the 3 point shot, dude has no weaknesses in his game (jordan's 3pt shot was suspect).


No weaknesses?

1) Lack of leadership
2) Lack of mental toughness
3) Flopping
4) Betaness

[SouBeachTalents]

What exactly is this supposed to prove? :wtf:
Lebron is a PASS FIRST all around player. Bringing up his point totals when he was deferring to Wade really makes no sense.

The 2011 Finals ended any chance LeBron had at surpassing Jordan. He almost singlehandedly cost his team the championship with his inexplicable passiveness, saw his ppg drop by NINE, had an 8 point game in the series changing Game 4, and was a complete ghost in the 4th quarter. The numbers don't even do it justice. Just watch the games again, in the 4th quarter you seriously won't even notice LeBron's on the court. Jordan NEVER had a series that bad, and it's very arguably no other all time great had a worse series than LeBron did in the 2011 Finals.

[mehyaM24]

No weaknesses?

1) Lack of leadership
2) Lack of mental toughness
3) Flopping
4) Betaness

we aren't talking jordan without pippen (1-9 in the playoffs). this is lebron, the guy who almost won a chip without any allstars / legit second option on his team.

find a tangible weakness in his game. hint: you cant

[KingLeBronJames]

LeBron > Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Kobe Bryant, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Larry Bird, Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Shaquille O'Neal, Jerry West Bow down to the king! :bowdown:

[Smook A.]

1st time I ever saw someone say this, I got pretty mad. Now I don't even give a damn. I won't even bother writing out a couple paragraphs to explain why I think Michael Jordan was a far greater player than LeBron James. These dumbass bastards will never understand.

[dubeta]

I love this thread, so many people shook :bowdown:

Cant dispute the reasons so just rage quit

[Cali Syndicate]

What exactly is this supposed to prove? :wtf:
Lebron is a PASS FIRST all around player. Bringing up his point totals when he was deferring to Wade really makes no sense.

Lol...barely 3 years after and already revisionist history kicking in hard. James was shook, period. No off the ball movement. No looking to score when his team desperately needed points. Instead he was hiding away from the ball or playing hot potato whenever he got the ball, looking like a rotational swingman rather than the player the "best offensive player in the world."

Deferring my ass. 2 minutes left, mavs just took the lead from a huge comeback, heat players pass you the ball, you're Lebron James, if the first thought in your head is where's wade, I need to defer to him, that means he was shook.

[The_Pharcyde]

[QUOTE=mehyaM24]1. Defensive Versatility

Michael Jordan used his speed and athleticism to shut down opposing perimeter players and generate turnovers. But James is just as athletic and he is capable of dominating almost any opposing player from point guards to power forwards. He is even capable of playing against some centers on defense.

To illustrate the difference between Jordan and James, let

[The_Pharcyde]

1st time I ever saw someone say this, I got pretty mad. Now I don't even give a damn. I won't even bother writing out a couple paragraphs to explain why I think Michael Jordan was a far greater player than LeBron James. These dumbass bastards will never understand.
lol exactly

[JT123]

The 2011 Finals ended any chance LeBron had at surpassing Jordan. He almost singlehandedly cost his team the championship with his inexplicable passiveness, saw his ppg drop by NINE, had an 8 point game in the series changing Game 4, and was a complete ghost in the 4th quarter. The numbers don't even do it justice. Just watch the games again, in the 4th quarter you seriously won't even notice LeBron's on the court. Jordan NEVER had a series that bad, and it's very arguably no other all time great had a worse series than LeBron did in the 2011 Finals.
His Finals wasn't good, but saying it was the worst ever for an all time great is such an exaggeration. :lol Doesn't hold a candle to Kobe's 2004 Finals. :facepalm
ESPN shows with clear agendas, like First Take, completely exaggerated an off series by Lebron and basically brainwashed the world into thinking it was a huge choke job. Lebron had one bad playoff series in 4 years with the Heat, so what? Wade and Bosh had at least 4 playoff series that were equally as bad as Lebron's 2011 Finals, if not worse.

[The_Pharcyde]

His Finals wasn't good, but saying it was the worst ever for an all time great is such an exaggeration. :lol Doesn't hold a candle to Kobe's 2004 Finals. :facepalm
ESPN shows with a clear agenda, like First Take, completely exaggerated an off series by Lebron and basically brainwashed the world into thinking it was a huge choke job. Lebron had one bad playoff series in 4 years with the Heat, so what? Wade and Bosh had at least 4 playoff series that were equally as bad as Lebron's 2011 Finals, if not worse.

while both were awful
at least kobe tried to get something going, if you remember 2011 Lebron looked like he didnt want to even see the ball, kobe had no problem trying to spark anything from him

Lebron looked scared, and from his interviews post winning the titles, he pretty much affirmed that..

[tpols]

6/6>2/5

sorry:confusedshrug: Jordan won when he was supposed to.. LeBron has choked or given up in 80% of his Finals.

[Vienceslav]

His Finals wasn't good, but saying it was the worst ever for an all time great is such an exaggeration. :lol Doesn't hold a candle to Kobe's 2004 Finals. :facepalm
ESPN shows with clear agendas, like First Take, completely exaggerated an off series by Lebron and basically brainwashed the world into thinking it was a huge choke job. Lebron had one bad playoff series in 4 years with the Heat, so what? Wade and Bosh had at least 4 playoff series that were equally as bad as Lebron's 2011 Finals, if not worse.
People are not saying that Bosh and Wade are better than Jordan though.:roll:
The article is just click bait, we'll get something similar about Durant a few years from now, don't worry.

[Beastmode88]

I think stephen a smith said it best judge players base what happens after they win their first ring. MJ is 6/6 after and lebron is 2/3 so far.

[mehyaM24]

you know you dont truly believe that
i believe everything i post. to clarify, i watched jordan and I watch lebron now. jordan had a better marketing machine, and his sail through the sky jumpman-dunks were made for that. jordan as it stands has a more accomplished career. lebron has more pure talent though. in the end he may or may not match Jordan's career accomplishments (i believe he will get all the individual awards necessary- team play is another discussion), so we may not be able to call him the "greatest" but either way as of today he is more talented than jordan ever was.

[Vienceslav]

I think stephen a smith said it best judge players base what happens after they win their first ring. MJ is 6/6 after and lebron is 2/3 so far.
It's worrying when you start sentences with 'Stephen A Smith said it best..'.

[SouBeachTalents]

His Finals wasn't good, but saying it was the worst ever for an all time great is such an exaggeration. :lol Doesn't hold a candle to Kobe's 2004 Finals. :facepalm
ESPN shows with clear agendas, like First Take, completely exaggerated an off series by Lebron and basically brainwashed the world into thinking it was a huge choke job. Lebron had one bad playoff series in 4 years with the Heat, so what? Wade and Bosh had at least 4 playoff series that were equally as bad as Lebron's 2011 Finals, if not worse.

1. Kobe's 2004 Finals is arguable, but the Lakers were so outclassed by the Pistons in that series, even if Kobe plays a decent series Detroit probably still wins. LeBron received a very good performance from Wade and a solid showing from Bosh, yet the Heat STILL lost because of LeBron.

2. How could you possibly say LeBron didn't choke? In Games 2-5, he scored a grand total of SIX points in 4 very competitive 4th quarters, three of which resulted in the Heat losing.

3. Is anyone saying Wade or BOSH are superior to Jordan? No, no one does, so it's ridiculous and irrelevant to bring them up in the first place

[dubeta]

1. Kobe's 2004 Finals is arguable, but the Lakers were so outclassed by the Pistons in that series, even if Kobe plays a decent series Detroit probably still wins. LeBron received a very good performance from Wade and a solid showing from Bosh, yet the Heat STILL lost because of LeBron.

2. How could you possibly say LeBron didn't choke? In Games 2-5, he scored a grand total of SIX points in 4 very competitive 4th quarters, three of which resulted in the Heat losing.

3. Is anyone saying Wade or BOSH are superior to Jordan? No, no one does, so it's ridiculous and irrelevant to bring them up in the first place
:wtf:

I see what you did there

[knicksman]

[QUOTE=mehyaM24]



3. Destroying the Point of Attack

James may be at his best against opposing point guards, whom he seems to swallow up with his ridiculous size and speed.

Point guard is often the hardest position for anyone to guard because of the way most teams throw screen after screen at the opposing defender. James often just cuts off the screener and the ball handler at once, as he did to Tony Parker in the 2013 finals and 2011 MVP Derrick Rose in the conference finals, effectively grinding these teams

[Lebronxrings]

mj stans dead

[stalkerforlife]

Sorry, but Jordan never did this

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg

:roll:

/thread

[stalkerforlife]

And the sad thing is, this BS thread stays up. If we post something against Lebron, the thread is deleted. The bias for Lebron and his stans on this site is sad.

To even mention Lebron in the same sentence with MJ is a complete joke and the exact reason why loyal fans of basketball dislike Lebron.

[Warfan]

Jordan consistently demoralised opponents with his great scoring. He had a much better mid-range and post up game than lebron, and comparing lebrons footwork in the post to MJ's is laughable. His first step was far superior. He could play with his back to the basket, and he could turn and blow by his man with ease. Another key aspect as to why Jordan was better on offense, was that he could make hard moves to the basket and pull up on a dime. That mid range jumper allowed him to still dominate later in his career when he lost some of his athleticism. He also may have been a better finisher at the rim, especially when you take into account the def 3. rule and there being less spacing when MJ played. Comparing their off-the-ball play is also a joke.

He was also a better defender than Lebron. Both played great team defense but MJ's man defense was easily superior. MJ was also quicker, and more tenancious on defense. But most importantly in this compariosn to me was MJ's competitiveness and toughness. He thrived playing on the biggest stage, in the pressure moments. He embraced the challenge and all of the pressure, something bron hasnt done




LeBron....

Do you ever battle a fear of failure?

That's one of my biggest obstacles. I'm afraid of failure. I want to succeed so bad that I become afraid of failing



MJ...

https://monet360.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/wpid-michael-jordon-quotes-michael-jordan-quotes-on-tumblr-44314-440x440.jpg

https://monet360.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/wpid-michael-jordan-quotes-about-success-i1311.jpg

[Magic 32]

38 reasons he is not...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=302139

[chazzy]

Lol'd at "Times piece." You mean Epoch Times?

[Angel Face]

Better defender... lets Kawhii win FMVP. :roll:

[sportjames23]

we aren't talking jordan without pippen (1-9 in the playoffs). this is lebron, the guy who almost won a chip without any allstars / legit second option on his team.

find a tangible weakness in his game. hint: you cant


How is getting swept in the Finals almost winning a chip?

Hint: It's not.

2/5, brah.

[mehyaM24]

His Finals wasn't good, but saying it was the worst ever for an all time great is such an exaggeration. :lol Doesn't hold a candle to Kobe's 2004 Finals. :facepalm
ESPN shows with clear agendas, like First Take, completely exaggerated an off series by Lebron and basically brainwashed the world into thinking it was a huge choke job. Lebron had one bad playoff series in 4 years with the Heat, so what? Wade and Bosh had at least 4 playoff series that were equally as bad as Lebron's 2011 Finals, if not worse.

lebron is bigger stronger and faster than jordan, that says it all. jordan has a bunch of fans who are basically hero worshipers, therefore it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to see that fact (media bias).

[tpols]

lebron is bigger stronger and faster than jordan, that says it all. jordan has a bunch of fans who are basically hero worshipers, therefore it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to see that fact (media bias).

LeBron is bigger stronger and faster than kawhi.. still got owned by him. When Drexler was challenging Jordan for his spot.. he embarrassed him.. Lebron getting embarrassed by leonard would be like Jordan getting embarrassed by latrell Sprewell or something, it just would never happen.

[JohnFreeman]

Why can't we just appreciate MJ and LeBron? **** Durant though

[JerrySeinfeld]

:facepalm

[Asukal]

He is not even the best sf to play the game and you say he is better than the GOAT? Morons everywhere. :oldlol:

[JohnFreeman]

He is not even the best sf to play the game and you say he is better than the GOAT? Morons everywhere. :oldlol:
Yes he is.

[Asukal]

Yes he is.

Nah he is not, Larry Legend still better than him. :oldlol:

[JohnFreeman]

Nah he is not, Larry Legend still better than him. :oldlol:
Nah

[JerrySeinfeld]

Nah

How old are you?

[Calabis]

lebron is bigger stronger and faster than jordan, that says it all. jordan has a bunch of fans who are basically hero worshipers, therefore it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to see that fact (media bias).

World Peace and Horry disagree

[kamil]

Yawn.

LeBrons* chances of passing MJ were over in 2011.

[3ball]

1. Defensive Versatility

Lebron guarding PF's is a myth perpetuated by the media... Did he guard Dirk Nowitski in 2011??... Of course not.... Ditto for Tim Duncan in 2007, 2013 and 2014 - so if Lebron guards PF's, why didn't he guard these guys??.... or guys like Zach Randolph or ANY decent PF????... obviously, he doesn't guard them.

I think what the NY Times was referring to was the occasional spot-duty he gets on the BAD PF's... guys like Tiago Splitter - Most players can guard bad PF's for a couple possessions and it won't negatively affect the team.... but somehow Lebron gets big props when he does it.

When the Heat actually did try to put Lebron on a semi-decent PF in David West in Game 1 of the ECF, Lebron got thoroughly destroyed and Spo had to switch up the game plan for Game 2.... a perfect case in point.



The Bulls would not have Jordan guarding James because of James’s ability to overpower him close the basket.
This is laughable... If this was the case, he would be doing this all the time and would already be considered a monster on the post - but the stats show he only posts 8% of the time.

Did he rape featherweight Paul George on the post????... Of course not... Lebron is guarded by smaller players all the time and at best he scores the occasional one-off bucket against them.

Why doesn't Lebron post more??.. Because he just isn't a post player... His low proportion of post play should be expected because in all reality, an average turnaround jumper and bully-ball is not enough of a repertoire to post much more than 8% of the time.



2. Defensive Versatility Allows Coach to Dictate Match-ups

Again, he doesn't guard PF's.

Just a massive exaggeration of Lebron's true abilities defensively... and he wasn't even very good on defense this year.. he's already declining just like Kobe did after like 2005 when his defense really dropped off (but the league kept giving him all-NBA defense).



3. Destroying the Point of Attack (guarding PG's)
The Times is comparing Lebron's ability to guard PG's to Jordan's???... This is ridiculous because Jordan guarded them MUCH more often... guarding PG's is not a point in Lebron's favor... It's a point in Jordan's favor... it's one of the reasons Jordan got DPOY.

To use guarding PG's as a point in Lebron's favor when Jordan was DPOY while guarding PG's nightly, is disingenuous and reveals just how biased and blind the media is about Lebron, and how much they completely forget about Jordan.



4. Foul Rate

Wow... i guess Lebron has Jordan in this category.. Who cares.. So Jordan made guys earn it from the line more, while Lebron is more willing to let a guy go... whooptidoo



5. James Is a Better Three-Point Shooter

This is another example of media ignorance about the game - the 3-point shot wasn't used in Jordan's day, so giving Lebron credit for shooting more threes unfairly punishes Jordan for playing at a time when the shot wasn't used.

But more importantly, Lebron shot the exact same percentage as Jordan for the first 9 years of his career (32%)... Only beginning in 2012 did Lebron make a concerted effort to increase his percentage to keep up with the floor-spacing trend that had taken over the game...

So if Lebron were to go back and play in Jordan's day when the 3-point shot wasn't used as much, it's only rational to assume he would shoot the same 32% that he shot the first 9 years of his career when he wasn't focused on shooting it.



6. James Is a Better Passer
This argument best reveals the 4th grade level of basketball acumen contained in the article.

Lebron scores SO MUCH LESS THAN JORDAN, that he'd BETTER average more assists... and his assist advantage should really be MUCH larger.

Lebron averages 0.6 more assists per 36 minutes in the playoffs, while Jordan averages a whopping 25% more points per 36 minutes in the playoffs (that's 25% more scoring for Jordan every 3 quarters!!!)... Anyone in their right mind would take the 25% more scoring every 3 quarters over 0.6 more assists.

Also, when you look at their passing styles, Lebron uses more of the shot clock to get his assists... He routinely uses massive chunks of the shot clock to survey the floor and set up his assist, whereas Jordan always acted immediately upon the catch, and didn't need as much time to get his assists.

Finally, Jordan's biggest advantages over Lebron come when it matters against the highest level of competition (i.e. Jordan averages a whopping 10 more ppg than Lebron in the Finals)... Passing is no different - Jordan averaged 11 assists per game in the 1991 Finals (along with 34ppg).... Lebron will never play this well.



7. James Is a better Teammate... Who would you rather play with?
I want to play with the guy that is SO good, he can still provide maximum production while playing in whatever capacity is necessary so that I can still play to my strengths (i.e. if i'm Wade, I want a goat-level off-ball player so I can play primary ballhandler and not have my game stifled in any way).

I also want to work with the guy that is a true boss... not a wishy-washy, passive-aggressive, nice guy...

Most importantly, i want to play with the best - the guy that WINS every time, which translates into the guy that can help MY career the best (look what MJ did for Kerr and Paxson's careers).... that's obviously Jordan.



8. James Is a Better Rebounder
The only category in the NY Times article that Lebron actually wins..

Somehow I still suspect that if rebounding was turned into a competition somehow (maybe who could average more rebounds), Jordan would win... Jordan wasn't so far behind in rebounding that his advantages as a competitor (more fierce, wants it more, tougher, smarter) wouldn't allow him to still beat Lebron in rebounding.



In closing, James is a more versatile player and has a more devastating physical presence.
It's amazing how people think - Lebron is NOT more physically devastating - people think that since he's bigger, he MUST be more physically devastating.... but not if he isn't nearly as aggressive or intense and has a natural habit of standing and holding when he catches it, as opposed to catching it and immediately attacking...

And he posts only 8%, completely wasting his size advantage, while Jordan crushed the post as a standard... it's like night and day.... If Jordan wasn't physically imposing his will more often, how else could he draw more fouls in a more physical era?....

Regarding versatility - Jordan is the far more versatile scorer, which helps him adjust to his teammates better... He also is the quicker-reacting player and more instinctive... These factors made him less exploitable and more effective at the highest levels of competition.

[Smook A.]

Nah
He hasn't surpassed Larry Bird yet. If you really think LeBron's the best SF ever right now then you need a brain check.

[3ball]

I answered all of OP's points... here are my points..


Top 7 Reasons for Jordan Over Lebron (each reason below is also a link):


1) Jordan's stats are the best and they say he carried the largest offensive load ever (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10456245&postcount=25)


2) Jordan played better competition (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10454414&postcount=101)


3) Jordan played in eras that barely used the 3-point shot - all two-pointers is a tougher brand of basketball (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10454505&postcount=104)


4) Better hops off a vertical so he scored better in traffic (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40451964#p40451964)


5) Not just quick for his size, but true guard quickness for greater mismatches vs. bigger defenders (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40452998#p40452998)


6) Goat scoring ability allowed MJ to take on the largest load and attract maximum defensive attention to free up teammates, while Lebron undertook too small a load in the 2014 Finals (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10441295&postcount=236).


7) Not only could Jordan take on the aforementioned maximum offensive load to attract maximum defensive attention and free up teammates, but his superior scoring versatility (including off-ball skill) (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40476428#p40476428) allowed him to take on that maximum load while scoring in whatever capacity allowed star teammates to play to their strengths (i.e. with Jordan off-ball, Pippen was free to be the more ball-dominant point-forward).


:pimp: The factors above enabled Jordan to control his own destiny better - translation: 6 for 6 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10422919&postcount=9):


MJ TV:

Top 15 Hanging Jumpshots by MJ (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40750321#p40750321)

Top 15 MJ Dunks Over Multiple Contesting Defenders (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40414797#p40414797)

Partial Collection of MJ Dunks Over All-Time Great Centers (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40382395#p40382395)

Various MJ Two-Handed Posters Over Defenders (two-foot takeoffs) (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10441991&postcount=40)

MJ Hangtime Shots Off A One-Step Vertical (Drop-Step) (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10422917&postcount=172)

MJ Flight (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10451420&postcount=76)

Random MJ Posters (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10273035&postcount=86)

[sportjames23]

Lebron guarding PF's is a myth perpetuated by the media... Did he guard Dirk Nowitski in 2011??... Of course not.... Ditto for Tim Duncan in 2007, 2013 and 2014 - so if Lebron guards PF's, why didn't he guard these guys??.... or guys like Zach Randolph or ANY decent PF????... obviously, he doesn't guard them.

I think what the NY Times was referring to was the occasional spot-duty he gets on the BAD PF's... guys like Tiago Splitter - Most players can guard bad PF's for a couple possessions and it won't negatively affect the team.... but somehow Lebron gets big props when he does it.

When the Heat actually did try to put Lebron on a semi-decent PF in David West in Game 1 of the ECF, Lebron got thoroughly destroyed and Spo had to switch up the game plan for Game 2.... a perfect case in point.




This is laughable... If this was the case, he would be doing this all the time and would already be considered a monster on the post - but the stats show he only posts 8% of the time.

Did he rape featherweight Paul George on the post????... Of course not... Lebron is guarded by smaller players all the time and at best he scores the occasional one-off bucket against them.

Why doesn't Lebron post more??.. Because he just isn't a post player... His low proportion of post play should be expected because in all reality, an average turnaround jumper and bully-ball is not enough of a repertoire to post much more than 8% of the time.




Again, he doesn't guard PF's.

Just a massive exaggeration of Lebron's true abilities defensively... and he wasn't even very good on defense this year.. he's already declining just like Kobe did after like 2005 when his defense really dropped off (but the league kept giving him all-NBA defense).




The Times is comparing Lebron's ability to guard PG's to Jordan's???... This is ridiculous because Jordan guarded them MUCH more often... guarding PG's is not a point in Lebron's favor... It's a point in Jordan's favor... it's one of the reasons Jordan got DPOY.

To use guarding PG's as a point in Lebron's favor when Jordan was DPOY while guarding PG's nightly, is disingenuous and reveals just how biased and blind the media is about Lebron, and how much they completely forget about Jordan.




Wow... i guess Lebron has Jordan in this category.. Who cares.. So Jordan made guys earn it from the line more, while Lebron is more willing to let a guy go... whooptidoo




This is another example of media ignorance about the game - the 3-point shot wasn't used in Jordan's day, so giving Lebron credit for shooting more threes unfairly punishes Jordan for playing at a time when the shot wasn't used.

But more importantly, Lebron shot the exact same percentage as Jordan for the first 9 years of his career (32%)... Only beginning in 2012 did Lebron make a concerted effort to increase his percentage to keep up with the floor-spacing trend that had taken over the game...

So if Lebron were to go back and play in Jordan's day when the 3-point shot wasn't used as much, it's only rational to assume he would shoot the same 32% that he shot the first 9 years of his career when he wasn't focused on shooting it.




This argument best reveals the 4th grade level of basketball acumen contained in the article.

Lebron scores SO MUCH LESS THAN JORDAN, that he'd BETTER average more assists... and his assist advantage should really be MUCH larger.

Lebron averages 0.6 more assists per 36 minutes in the playoffs, while Jordan averages a whopping 25% more points per 36 minutes in the playoffs (that's 25% more scoring for Jordan every 3 quarters!!!)... Anyone in their right mind would take the 25% more scoring every 3 quarters over 0.6 more assists.

Also, when you look at their passing styles, Lebron uses more of the shot clock to get his assists... He routinely uses massive chunks of the shot clock to survey the floor and set up his assist, whereas Jordan always acted immediately upon the catch, and didn't need as much time to get his assists.

Finally, Jordan's biggest advantages over Lebron come when it matters against the highest level of competition (i.e. Jordan averages a whopping 10 more ppg than Lebron in the Finals)... Passing is no different - Jordan averaged 11 assists per game in the 1991 Finals (along with 34ppg).... Lebron will never play this well.



I want to play with the guy that is SO good, he can still provide maximum production while playing in whatever capacity is necessary so that I can still play to my strengths (i.e. if i'm Wade, I want a goat-level off-ball player so I can play primary ballhandler and not have my game stifled in any way).

I also want to work with the guy that is a true boss... not a wishy-washy, passive-aggressive, nice guy...

Most importantly, i want to play with the best - the guy that WINS every time, which translates into the guy that can help MY career the best (look what MJ did for Kerr and Paxson's careers).... that's obviously Jordan.




The only category in the NY Times article that Lebron actually wins..

Somehow I still suspect that if rebounding was turned into a competition somehow (maybe who could average more rebounds), Jordan would win... Jordan wasn't so far behind in rebounding that his advantages as a competitor (more fierce, wants it more, tougher, smarter) wouldn't allow him to still beat Lebron in rebounding.




It's amazing how people think - Lebron is NOT more physically devastating - people think that since he's bigger, he MUST be more physically devastating.... but not if he isn't nearly as aggressive or intense and has a natural habit of standing and holding when he catches it, as opposed to catching it and immediately attacking...

And he posts only 8%, completely wasting his size advantage, while Jordan crushed the post as a standard... it's like night and day.... If Jordan wasn't physically imposing his will more often, how else could he draw more fouls in a more physical era?....

Regarding versatility - Jordan is the far more versatile scorer, which helps him adjust to his teammates better.

Lebron is the much slower-reacting player of the two and less instinctive... these things combined with his significant disadvantage to Jordan in scoring versatility, make him the more exploitable player and the less effective player at the highest levels of competition.


3ball killin' 'em softly. :bowdown:

[JohnFreeman]

He hasn't surpassed Larry Bird yet. If you really think LeBron's the best SF ever right now then you need a brain check.
LeBron is better.

[dubeta]

I'd respect MJ a LOT more if he wasnt 1-9 :facepalm

[ImKobe]

This thread is cringeworthy. In no shape of form is Lebron a better player than MJ. More complete player? Let's see Lebron play perimeter defense like Mike did or get into the passing lanes like Mike did or win a DPOY while leading the league in usage rate on the offensive end...

Better shooter? Please.

Better passer and rebounder? Debatable. MJ averaged 8 rebounds and 8 assists for a season when he cared about stuffing the stat sheet to go along with his 32 ppg. Also averaged 31 ppg + 8.4 apg for a championship run, including over 11 assists a game in the Finals

What does Lebron do better than MJ, really? Shoot a higher % while taking less shots? You put up best MJ regular season vs best Lebron regular season, MJ wins. You put up MJ's best championship run vs Lebron's, MJ wins again.

MJ had 4 consecutive 60+TS% seasons while taking 23 shots a game.

[Heavincent]

LeBron is better.

Compelling argument.

[JohnFreeman]

Compelling argument.
http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/b/larry_bird_vs_lebron_james.htm

LeBron wins

[dubeta]

This thread is cringeworthy. In no shape of form is Lebron a better player than MJ. More complete player? Let's see Lebron play perimeter defense like Mike did or get into the passing lanes like Mike did or win a DPOY while leading the league in usage rate on the offensive end...

Better shooter? Please.

Better passer and rebounder? Debatable. MJ averaged 8 rebounds and 8 assists for a season when he cared about stuffing the stat sheet to go along with his 32 ppg. Also averaged 31 ppg + 8.4 apg for a championship run, including over 11 assists a game in the Finals

What does Lebron do better than MJ, really? Shoot a higher % while taking less shots? You put up best MJ regular season vs best Lebron regular season, MJ wins. You put up MJ's best championship run vs Lebron's, MJ wins again.

MJ had 4 consecutive 60+TS% seasons while taking 23 shots a game.

I know you're jealous that LeBron is already >> Kobe but that doesnt mean you have to trash him every opportunity you get

Your opinions and cringe worthy logic (LeBron being a better passer and rebounder is debatable, but somehow MJ being a better shooter and defender isnt? :hammerhead:) isnt going to convince any of us :sleeping

[BoutPractice]

Jordan and LeBron, especially taking into account the age difference, were very comparable in the beginning of their careers. The 2005-2009 period (especially 2009) made it reasonable to expect LeBron could have the best peak for a perimeter player in history.

2010-2014, even though LeBron won 3 MVPs and 2 championships in that timespan, is when it became clear that LeBron wouldn't surpass Jordan's peak. LeBron's peak was historically great but not THAT great. He might still end up with similar accolades and better longevity, though.

It's a bit similar to Kobe, who in 2002 looked like he might end up surpassing Jordan at least in accolades, before the team imploded. Right after 2002, it wasn't completely crazy to imagine Kobe retiring with 8 championships and having one of the best peaks ever after figuring out how to be a better teammate...

[aj1987]

He hasn't surpassed Larry Bird yet. If you really think LeBron's the best SF ever right now then you need a brain check.
:facepalm

Surpassed Bird in total points and assists (while having FEWER turnovers) and played fewer games than him as well. Better defender as well.

Bird has one ring more while LeBron has one MVP more than Bird. LeBron has 5 All-Defensive first teams, while Bird has none. So yeah, LeBron IS the GOAT SF.

[sekachu]

I'd respect MJ a LOT more if he wasnt 1-9 :facepalm




MJ was cut from high school team, 1-9 during his first 3 years in nba, lost to Piston 3 consecutive years in playoff until 91 but he overcame the obstacles and never back down like others. That 's how Michael Jordan becomes real Michael Jordan 6/6. What is your definition of respect? I wondered

[jimmy77x]

Lebron guarding PF's is a myth perpetuated by the media... Did he guard Dirk Nowitski in 2011??... Of course not.... Ditto for Tim Duncan in 2007, 2013 and 2014 - so if Lebron guards PF's, why didn't he guard these guys??.... or guys like Zach Randolph or ANY decent PF????... obviously, he doesn't guard them.

I think what the NY Times was referring to was the occasional spot-duty he gets on the BAD PF's... guys like Tiago Splitter - Most players can guard bad PF's for a couple possessions and it won't negatively affect the team.... but somehow Lebron gets big props when he does it.

When the Heat actually did try to put Lebron on a semi-decent PF in David West in Game 1 of the ECF, Lebron got thoroughly destroyed and Spo had to switch up the game plan for Game 2.... a perfect case in point.



This is laughable... If this was the case, he would be doing this all the time and would already be considered a monster on the post - but the stats show he only posts 8% of the time.

Did he rape featherweight Paul George on the post????... Of course not... Lebron is guarded by smaller players all the time and at best he scores the occasional one-off bucket against them.

Why doesn't Lebron post more??.. Because he just isn't a post player... His low proportion of post play should be expected because in all reality, an average turnaround jumper and bully-ball is not enough of a repertoire to post much more than 8% of the time.



Again, he doesn't guard PF's.

Just a massive exaggeration of Lebron's true abilities defensively... and he wasn't even very good on defense this year.. he's already declining just like Kobe did after like 2005 when his defense really dropped off (but the league kept giving him all-NBA defense).



The Times is comparing Lebron's ability to guard PG's to Jordan's???... This is ridiculous because Jordan guarded them MUCH more often... guarding PG's is not a point in Lebron's favor... It's a point in Jordan's favor... it's one of the reasons Jordan got DPOY.

To use guarding PG's as a point in Lebron's favor when Jordan was DPOY while guarding PG's nightly, is disingenuous and reveals just how biased and blind the media is about Lebron, and how much they completely forget about Jordan.



Wow... i guess Lebron has Jordan in this category.. Who cares.. So Jordan made guys earn it from the line more, while Lebron is more willing to let a guy go... whooptidoo



This is another example of media ignorance about the game - the 3-point shot wasn't used in Jordan's day, so giving Lebron credit for shooting more threes unfairly punishes Jordan for playing at a time when the shot wasn't used.

But more importantly, Lebron shot the exact same percentage as Jordan for the first 9 years of his career (32%)... Only beginning in 2012 did Lebron make a concerted effort to increase his percentage to keep up with the floor-spacing trend that had taken over the game...

So if Lebron were to go back and play in Jordan's day when the 3-point shot wasn't used as much, it's only rational to assume he would shoot the same 32% that he shot the first 9 years of his career when he wasn't focused on shooting it.



This argument best reveals the 4th grade level of basketball acumen contained in the article.

Lebron scores SO MUCH LESS THAN JORDAN, that he'd BETTER average more assists... and his assist advantage should really be MUCH larger.

Lebron averages 0.6 more assists per 36 minutes in the playoffs, while Jordan averages a whopping 25% more points per 36 minutes in the playoffs (that's 25% more scoring for Jordan every 3 quarters!!!)... Anyone in their right mind would take the 25% more scoring every 3 quarters over 0.6 more assists.

Also, when you look at their passing styles, Lebron uses more of the shot clock to get his assists... He routinely uses massive chunks of the shot clock to survey the floor and set up his assist, whereas Jordan always acted immediately upon the catch, and didn't need as much time to get his assists.

Finally, Jordan's biggest advantages over Lebron come when it matters against the highest level of competition (i.e. Jordan averages a whopping 10 more ppg than Lebron in the Finals)... Passing is no different - Jordan averaged 11 assists per game in the 1991 Finals (along with 34ppg).... Lebron will never play this well.



I want to play with the guy that is SO good, he can still provide maximum production while playing in whatever capacity is necessary so that I can still play to my strengths (i.e. if i'm Wade, I want a goat-level off-ball player so I can play primary ballhandler and not have my game stifled in any way).

I also want to work with the guy that is a true boss... not a wishy-washy, passive-aggressive, nice guy...

Most importantly, i want to play with the best - the guy that WINS every time, which translates into the guy that can help MY career the best (look what MJ did for Kerr and Paxson's careers).... that's obviously Jordan.



The only category in the NY Times article that Lebron actually wins..

Somehow I still suspect that if rebounding was turned into a competition somehow (maybe who could average more rebounds), Jordan would win... Jordan wasn't so far behind in rebounding that his advantages as a competitor (more fierce, wants it more, tougher, smarter) wouldn't allow him to still beat Lebron in rebounding.



It's amazing how people think - Lebron is NOT more physically devastating - people think that since he's bigger, he MUST be more physically devastating.... but not if he isn't nearly as aggressive or intense and has a natural habit of standing and holding when he catches it, as opposed to catching it and immediately attacking...

And he posts only 8%, completely wasting his size advantage, while Jordan crushed the post as a standard... it's like night and day.... If Jordan wasn't physically imposing his will more often, how else could he draw more fouls in a more physical era?....

Regarding versatility - Jordan is the far more versatile scorer, which helps him adjust to his teammates better... He also is the quicker-reacting player and more instinctive... These factors made him less exploitable and more effective at the highest levels of competition.

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/statehornet.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/1/8a/18aa8952-5808-11e1-9029-0019bb30f31a/4f3c02177391d.image.jpg

[Kvnzhangyay]

Nah he is not, Larry Legend still better than him. :oldlol:

How? It is debateable, and I will do my best to refute your statements. At this point, I truly feel its a complete tossup

[UK2K]

What does MJ average if he was 6'8" 260 and played in the league since 18 and never took a year off?

8 titles? 10? 12?

It'd probably be double digits.

[BoutPractice]

What does MJ average if he was 6'8" 260 and played in the league since 18 and never took a year off?

8 titles? 10? 12?

It'd probably be double digits.
What if Chris Paul was 7'2?

[iamgine]

[QUOTE]The Bulls would not have Jordan guarding James because of James

[TheMan]

we aren't talking jordan without pippen (1-9 in the playoffs). this is lebron, the guy who almost won a chip without any allstars / legit second option on his team.

find a tangible weakness in his game. hint: you cant
You and 2or 3 of your other alts are the only people here who put any stock in that garbage point that no one without an agenda cares about. You're really juicing the fact that Jordan couldn't beat the legendary Celtics by himself, rest assured LeBron's Cavs wouldn't fare any better so don't compare the level of competition Jordan faced in the East in 86/87 compared to the garbage LeBron went through in 07.

The second bolded part, MJ is among a select few of GOAT players to win a without a all star teammate, fact.

Pretty cute how you try so desperately :oldlol:

[DJ Leon Smith]

I agree entirely with the article posted. Also, LeBron helped lesser players win NBA championships and thrive in the NBA Finals, something Jordan never did :cheers:

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0612/dal_g_terry03jr_200.jpg

[sportjames23]

I agree entirely with the article posted. Also, LeBron helped lesser players win NBA championships and thrive in the NBA Finals, something Jordan never did :cheers:

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0612/dal_g_terry03jr_200.jpg


:roll: :roll: :roll:

[LeBird]

Lebron is the better player, this isn't that controversial if you really think about it. But he still needs a few rings to back up his legacy. He'll probably get there - he'll definitely win more personal accolades I feel.

[Bandito]

Slurp slurp

[ArbitraryWater]

I disagree with LBJ being greater than Jordan, but I dig the effort by OP... He layed out reasons, and as long as no one is debunking or countering, he's winning... Y'all acting like OP is the troll when you can't even argue his stance or think Kobe is > LeBron :facepalm

[Frozen1]

Lebron is a ball dominant fraud who likes to pad his stats and make his teamates worse.

Lebron is not a better passer than Jordan, he just passes more to pad his assists.

[juju151111]

Lebron is the better player, this isn't that controversial if you really think about it. But he still needs a few rings to back up his legacy. He'll probably get there - he'll definitely win more personal accolades I feel.
MJ was the better player

[T_L_P]

"Defensive versatility" coats the fact that Jordan was the better defender.

Defense is a 24/7 job. You don't turn it off if you're great at it, which is exactly what LeBron did last year.

[StephHamann]

I agree entirely with the article posted. Also, LeBron helped lesser players win NBA championships and thrive in the NBA Finals, something Jordan never did :cheers:

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0612/dal_g_terry03jr_200.jpg

:lol

[Soundwave]

I don't even buy the "he's a better teammate" nonsense.

Jordan willingly accepted an offence that took the ball out of his hands as the brainchild concept of a (then) no-name rookie coach.

How many players would do this today without a ton of fuss?

LeBron in Miami? Sulked and quit on his team in the 2011 Finals and basically forced Wade and Bosh to have to neuter their games to suit his Cleveland-style offence that he was more comfortable in.

One guy sacrificed and adjusted for his team, the other quit and pouted until he got his way.

[Optimus Prime]

Is it strange that in a horrible thread like this that basically the first page of posters were all on my ignore list?

Nope! :kobe:

[AceManIII]

All would be relevant if LeBron still had a case

[OldSchoolBBall]

I don't even buy the "he's a better teammate" nonsense.

Jordan willingly accepted an offence that took the ball out of his hands as the brainchild concept of a (then) no-name rookie coach.

How many players would do this today without a ton of fuss?

LeBron in Miami? Sulked and quit on his team in the 2011 Finals and basically forced Wade and Bosh to have to neuter their games to suit his Cleveland-style offence that he was more comfortable in.

One guy sacrificed and adjusted for his team, the other quit and pouted until he got his way.

Seriously. lol @ the whitewashing of recent history by Lebron stans. :hammerhead:

[ralph_i_el]

Lebron trolls are the most delusioned little fakkits anywhere. Even the most absurd Kobe stan never showed his ass like this.

2/5 and disappearing in the 4th Quarters of NBA Finals alone ensure Lebron will NEVER be on or above MJ's level.

Should be automatic bans handed out for this kind of tomfoolery.

How many times did MJ lose in the first round? He won ONE game the first 3 times he made the playoffs.

Never beat Larry in the playoffs.
When has bronbron lost in the first? NEVER!

[artificial]

http://www.masterlock.com/apps/masterlock_com/images/app_AboutUs/History_1988b_00.jpg












(sorry, couldn't find Lebron's DPOY)

[dubeta]

The amount of people brainwashed by the media to think MJ is better than Bran is rediculous :facepalm

Anyone who thinks MJ is actually better needs serious help


Might as well say Mikan is the 2nd GOAT for dominating a weak era :facepalm


Scoring: LeBron is better considering his scoring on a lower pace with less possessions and higher efficiency


Rebounding: Again the fact that lebron got more rebounds with less possessions shows that he's much better rebounder

Assists: again it's LeBron

Defense: MJ guarding 6'2 white PG's who have no athleticism is better than lebron locking down d rose, melo, Paul George, and occasionally switching to Hibbert?? :wtf:

Face it MJ never had to guard anyone of importance.

Jordan abusing a weak era, playing in a much faster pace 80's and 90's, while playing exclusively for stats in many seasons (1987-1988) should not be applauded

[T_L_P]

The amount of people brainwashed by the media to think MJ is better than Bran is rediculous :facepalm

Anyone who thinks MJ is actually better needs serious help


Might as well say Mikan is the 2nd GOAT for dominating a weak era :facepalm


Scoring: LeBron is better considering his scoring on a lower pace with less possessions and higher efficiency


Rebounding: Again the fact that lebron got more rebounds with less possessions shows that he's much better rebounder

Assists: again it's LeBron

Defense: MJ guarding 6'2 white PG's who have no athleticism is better than lebron locking down d rose, melo, Paul George, and occasionally switching to Hibbert?? :wtf:

Face it MJ never had to guard anyone of importance.

Jordan abusing a weak era, playing in a much faster pace 80's and 90's, while playing exclusively for stats in many seasons (1987-1988) should not be applauded

Do you even PER, lebronxrings?

[dubeta]

Do you even PER, lebronxrings?

Do you?

Ok if we go by PER then lebron will probably surpass Jordan's career PER by the time he retires, would you then crown LeBron as GOAT then?


And by PER lebron is so >>> Duncan it's not even close

Lebrons career average PER is higher than Duncan's HIGHEST season PER

So you admit LeBron is >>> Duncan?

[mehyaM24]

lets also remember, lebron has directed the offense of his teams. jordan not only played in the triangle offense, which doesn't require a point guard, but played off of pippen directing the offense.

less responsibilities than lebron (couldnt run an offense to a .500 record in the playoffs without pippen), and yet considerably less efficient (name a finals/entire season where jordan shot 57% in).

jordan is a great scorer, while lebron is a great ALL AROUND player. big difference.

[dannywpt]

Good jokes, OP

[mehyaM24]

Scoring: LeBron is better considering his scoring on a lower pace with less possessions and higher efficiency


Rebounding: Again the fact that lebron got more rebounds with less possessions shows that he's much better rebounder

Assists: again it's LeBron

Defense: MJ guarding 6'2 white PG's who have no athleticism is better than lebron locking down d rose, melo, Paul George, and occasionally switching to Hibbert?? :wtf:

scoring goes to jordan, but you hit the nail on the head. lebron is better in all major statsitical categories. so how exactly is jordan a more "complete" player? finding more ways to score doesn't make you a supreme playmaker, defender, rebounder and leader (1-9 without pippen).

pretty crazy how ESPN has literally brainwashed posters into sheep.

[Marchesk]

Wilt was a better scorer, rebounder, shot blocker and fouled less than lebron. He was also handed out more assists when he took on that role.

MJ higher than Wilt all-time.

How about Lebron passes Wilt, Kareem and Russell before we compare him to MJ?

[dynasty1978]

Wilt was a better scorer, rebounder, shot blocker and fouled less than lebron. He was also handed out more assists when he took on that role.

MJ higher than Wilt all-time.

How about Lebron passes Wilt, Kareem and Russell before we compare him to MJ?


Add Duncan (who should be 3-0 vs lbj all time in the finals) and Shaq to that list as well. No one in in their right mind would take LBJ over those 2 guys either.

[3ball]

scoring goes to jordan, but you hit the nail on the head. lebron is better in all major statsitical categories. so how exactly is jordan a more "complete" player? finding more ways to score doesn't make you a supreme playmaker, defender, rebounder and leader (1-9 without pippen).

pretty crazy how ESPN has literally brainwashed posters into sheep.
Lebron is not a supreme playmaker - Jordan and Lebron's assist averages are very close, but Jordan scores way more.

Also, no one cares that Jordan was 1-9 without Pippen, because people understand that playing a Top-3 All-Time team like Bird's 86' Celtics without any help is a lot different then getting to play Gilbert Arenas' Wizards without any help.

[smoovegittar]

LeBron doesn't have half the desire or fire Michael did. Give it a rest, OP.

[mehyaM24]

Lebron is not a supreme playmaker - Jordan and Lebron's assist averages are very close, but Jordan scores way more.

Also, no one cares that Jordan was 1-9 without Pippen, because people understand that playing a Top-3 All-Time team like Bird's 86' Celtics without any help is a lot different then getting to play Gilbert Arenas' Wizards without any help.

poeple also understand the bulls made the playoffs at 30-52, in esentially the weakest conference of all time. there are no excuses for the so called "GOAT" to be 1-9 in the playoffs for 1/3 of his career.

hell, even lebron's cavs won 3 games against the 2008 boston celtics, a 66 win championship team.

[Cali Syndicate]

poeple also understand the bulls made the playoffs at 30-52, in esentially the weakest conference of all time. there are no excuses for the so called "GOAT" to be 1-9 in the playoffs for 1/3 of his career.

hell, even lebron's cavs won 3 games against the 2008 boston celtics, a 66 win championship team.

Compare the front courts of those early bulls teams to those of the early cavs.

Big Z / Gooden / Varejao is a solid rotation.

[JT123]

Compare the front courts of those early bulls teams to those of the early cavs.

Big Z / Gooden / Varejao is a solid rotation.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Cali Syndicate]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Z - All Star center, one of the top offensive rebounding players in the league during his prime, solid midrange game

Gooden - 12/8 production from a role player is pretty good

Varejao - A strong hustle all out player, the kind of rotational big most any teams would want on thier team.

year after year, Cavs were one of the top rebounding teams. how is that not solid?

[hitmanyr2k]

The 2011 Finals ended any chance LeBron had at surpassing Jordan. He almost singlehandedly cost his team the championship with his inexplicable passiveness, saw his ppg drop by NINE, had an 8 point game in the series changing Game 4, and was a complete ghost in the 4th quarter. The numbers don't even do it justice. Just watch the games again, in the 4th quarter you seriously won't even notice LeBron's on the court. Jordan NEVER had a series that bad, and it's very arguably no other all time great had a worse series than LeBron did in the 2011 Finals.

It wasn't just the 4th qtrs. Lebron managed to look like a flat out scrub at times during that series. Airballing layups, flopping all over the place. He looked more like a borderline all-star than a supposed all-time great player in his absolute prime. When the Mavs shut down his cheap fast break buckets Lebron didn't have any offensive skill left in the arsenal, didn't trust his shot and it was embarrassing to watch him miss point blank shots like this.

http://i.imgur.com/R4nPNpG.gif

http://i.imgur.com/Sb17dYp.gif

http://i.imgur.com/T601f1O.gif

http://i.imgur.com/m55PCNl.gif

http://i.imgur.com/ZqDDv6w.gif

http://i.imgur.com/bWjybw5.gif

http://i.imgur.com/pf0M0sm.gif

You know somewhere Jordan was watching this series doing this every game.

http://i.imgur.com/ff7utBd.gif

[choppermagic]

horrible article.

I agree that Jordan wasn't as god-like as many people say, but these reasons are a stretch. And to say Lebron is a better teammate by quoting a couple self-serving lines is ridiculous. This is the same "Check my Stats" guy that dissed his Cavs team on national tv, and also said the only way their defence could improve is if they cloned him to play other positions.

[dubeta]

Jordan stans so shook :roll:

[kenuffff]

want to know why jordan is GOAT? he hasn't played a game in over 10 years, and half of the threads on this forum are about him, including your well prosed 750 word essay.

[SouBeachTalents]

It wasn't just the 4th qtrs. Lebron managed to look like a flat out scrub at times during that series. Airballing layups, flopping all over the place. He looked more like a borderline all-star than a supposed all-time great player in his absolute prime. When the Mavs shut down his cheap fast break buckets Lebron didn't have any offensive skill left in the arsenal, didn't trust his shot and it was embarrassing to watch him miss point blank shots like this.

http://i.imgur.com/R4nPNpG.gif

http://i.imgur.com/Sb17dYp.gif

http://i.imgur.com/T601f1O.gif

http://i.imgur.com/m55PCNl.gif

http://i.imgur.com/ZqDDv6w.gif

http://i.imgur.com/bWjybw5.gif

http://i.imgur.com/pf0M0sm.gif

You know somewhere Jordan was watching this series doing this every game.

http://i.imgur.com/ff7utBd.gif

It's seriously unbelievable how awful he played. That makes Jordan's 1996 Finals look like the GOAT performance

[dubeta]

It's seriously unbelievable how awful he played. That makes Jordan's 1996 Finals look like the GOAT performance

Wade wasnt good enough to be a 1st option :confusedshrug:

[TheMan]

How many times did MJ lose in the first round? He won ONE game the first 3 times he made the playoffs.

Never beat Larry in the playoffs.
When has bronbron lost in the first? NEVER!
Jordan never missed the playoffs, can we say that about Bronzy?

[VIntageNOvel]

i saw thread comparing bran to dirk yesterday,
and it was locked

and this thread comparing goat to leblowjob :facepalm

[dubeta]

Jordan never missed the playoffs, can we say that about Bronzy?

Made the playoffs as a 30 win team :oldlol:

Weakest era in NBA history

Jordan is 1-9 in a weak era u mad??

[SouBeachTalents]

Wade wasnt good enough to be a 1st option :confusedshrug:

LeBron wasn't good enough to be a 2nd, even 3rd option

[TheMan]

Jordan stans so shook :roll:
:oldlol: You're completely delusional, Bron stans getting @ss fvcked in this thread yet we're the ones who are 'shook' :roll:

[TheMan]

Made the playoffs as a 30 win team :oldlol:

Weakest era in NBA history

Jordan is 1-9 in a weak era u mad??
Lol, 1-9 doesn't even register, no one gives a shit about that except you and 2 or 3 other guys here, even a fellow Bron stan made a thread whining about why no one ever brings 1-9 up:oldlol:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=352287

2/5 does get a lot of press, doe...stay mad.
:roll:

[mehyaM24]

before me, 1-9 was swept under the rug. it has now become a staple when talking about jordan here.

glad i could educate you guys :cheers:

[SouBeachTalents]

before me, 1-9 was swept under the rug. it has now become a staple when talking about jordan here.

glad i could educate you guys :cheers:

Too bad this can't be swept under the rug

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3kKxtSQa-4

[dubeta]

Too bad this can't be swept under the rug

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3kKxtSQa-4

Funny how the worst video you found of LeBron is still better than 2/4 of Wade's finals with the Heat..

[poido123]

before me, 1-9 was swept under the rug. it has now become a staple when talking about jordan here.

glad i could educate you guys :cheers:


The only "staple" you have managed to establish is a legacy of trolling and stupid assertions like this.

Nobody outside of Lebron trolls on the internet are spewing this 1-9 crap.

[SouBeachTalents]

Funny how the worst video you found of LeBron is still better than 2/4 of Wade's finals with the Heat..

Wade's 2013 Finals was probably better than LeBron's 2011.

Wade- 20, 4, 5, 2 TO's on 48% in 36 mpg
LeBron- 18, 7, 7, 4 TO's on 48% 44 mpg

Add on to the fact that LeBron never had a game as good as Wade's Game 4, and Wade never had a game as bad as LeBron's Game 4, plus Wade's 23 & 10 in Game 7, I'd give Wade the advantage

[dubeta]

The only "staple" you have managed to establish is a legacy of trolling and stupid assertions like this.

Nobody outside of Lebron trolls on the internet are spewing this 1-9 crap.


Cause the vast majority of fans (you included) are brainwashed by the media. You see Jordan's 6-6 and you think he was some unbeatable great, who never failed. The media tricks people like you into believing this.

Then when you actually look at the facts, you see that Jordan was 1-9 without a great team, and then you realize he really wasn't all that.

Its ok keep believing Jordan was inhuman :oldlol:

[poido123]

Cause the vast majority of fans (you included) are brainwashed by the media. You see Jordan's 6-6 and you think he was some unbeatable great, who never failed. The media tricks people like you into believing this.

Then when you actually look at the facts, you see that Jordan was 1-9 without a great team, and then you realize he really wasn't all that.

Its ok keep believing Jordan was inhuman :oldlol:



Jordan lost plenty of games.

He just didn't lose the ones that mattered...

If he was half a chance to win, he took it.

Lebron had half chances, he blew it...

[mehyaM24]

Jordan lost plenty of games.

He just didn't lose the ones that mattered...

If he was half a chance to win, he took it.

Lebron had half chances, he blew it...

playoff games don't matter? i swear jordan fans have the iq of a dead snail.

[poido123]

playoff games don't matter? i swear jordan fans have the iq of a dead snail.


Just a refresher in case you missed it:

Jordan lost plenty of games.

He just didn't lose the ones that mattered...

If he was half a chance to win, he took it.

Lebron had half chances, he blew it...

:D

[Milbuck]

Every time the 1-9 crap comes up, just paste this G.O.A.T quote. He says everything you want to say, without you having to type it out.

Because only someone with an anti-MJ agenda would think it means anything.

Jordan took the Bulls to the ECF before Pippen was even close to what he'd become. When Pippen became an all-star and played like it in the playoffs, the Bulls became Champions.

Realistically, expecting the Bulls to beat the Celtics in '86 or '87, even in a single game is really showing a lack of understanding.

Jordan never lost a playoff series with HCA, he never lost a finals, he never lost a game seven. Once he had enough talent to win around him, he never lost. These are things that matter more than a 1-9 playoff record in his first three seasons with little to no help.

It's the same as when people "ignore" or as I'd put it, focus on more important factors in the case of...

Kareem winning two playoff series from in five prime seasons (two MVP seasons) from 1975-1979 the only seasons he played without Magic or Oscar after his rookie year.

Magic making several bonehead or just bad plays in crucial playoff moments in 1981 and 1984.

Bird and the Celtics only make one Finals to Doc and the 76ers three from 1980-1983.

Wilt's Warriors getting upset by the Nationals in '61 or missing the playoffs in '63.

Shaq's pattern of being swept out of the playoffs from '95 thru '99.

Duncan's Spurs getting beaten by an eight seed or losing to the Mavs with HCA.

Kobe missing the playoffs and losing twice in the first round between 2005-2007 when he was arguably at his physical peak.

...once you put the context of those events along with an understanding of the players entire career and the different circumstances at different stages, it makes enough sense not to have to question it, unless you have an agenda of course.

[Just2McFly]

6/6>2/5

sorry:confusedshrug: Jordan won when he was supposed to.. LeBron has choked or given up in 80% of his Finals.
all these years and you're still stupid?

[Black Mamba's B]

:applause: It's nice to know that not everyone has been brainwashed by the Jordan hype machine that is the media.
The media does the same thing with LeBron. Hyping him up, making him seem better than what he really is.

Jordan>>> LeBron

Any logical basketball observer can see that

[Dengness9]

Originally Posted by G.O.A.T
Because only someone with an anti-MJ agenda would think it means anything.

Jordan took the Bulls to the ECF before Pippen was even close to what he'd become. When Pippen became an all-star and played like it in the playoffs, the Bulls became Champions.

Realistically, expecting the Bulls to beat the Celtics in '86 or '87, even in a single game is really showing a lack of understanding.

Jordan never lost a playoff series with HCA, he never lost a finals, he never lost a game seven. Once he had enough talent to win around him, he never lost. These are things that matter more than a 1-9 playoff record in his first three seasons with little to no help.

It's the same as when people "ignore" or as I'd put it, focus on more important factors in the case of...

Kareem winning two playoff series from in five prime seasons (two MVP seasons) from 1975-1979 the only seasons he played without Magic or Oscar after his rookie year.

Magic making several bonehead or just bad plays in crucial playoff moments in 1981 and 1984.

Bird and the Celtics only make one Finals to Doc and the 76ers three from 1980-1983.

Wilt's Warriors getting upset by the Nationals in '61 or missing the playoffs in '63.

Shaq's pattern of being swept out of the playoffs from '95 thru '99.

Duncan's Spurs getting beaten by an eight seed or losing to the Mavs with HCA.

Kobe missing the playoffs and losing twice in the first round between 2005-2007 when he was arguably at his physical peak.

...once you put the context of those events along with an understanding of the players entire career and the different circumstances at different stages, it makes enough sense not to have to question it, unless you have an agenda of course.

[Dengness9]

http://i.minus.com/i79dPrjNTeMBy.gif

[Dengness9]

https://38.media.tumblr.com/a77b23ae0d11eb0a06b7b612f1c26622/tumblr_mmy5e4cKsU1r10tndo1_400.gif

[Dengness9]

http://cdn.rsvlts.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Michael-Jordan-047.gif

[Dengness9]

http://scalabrinealert.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/MJ-Celebrating-Six-Titles.gif

[Dengness9]

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Michael-Jordan-Blocks-Tim-Duncan.gif

[Paul George 24]

[QUOTE=mehyaM24]1. Defensive Versatility

Michael Jordan used his speed and athleticism to shut down opposing perimeter players and generate turnovers. But James is just as athletic and he is capable of dominating almost any opposing player from point guards to power forwards. He is even capable of playing against some centers on defense.

To illustrate the difference between Jordan and James, let

[Dengness9]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mc9p4k8JrC1qfkqupo1_500.gif

[Paul George 24]

we aren't talking jordan without pippen (1-9 in the playoffs). this is lebron, the guy who almost won a chip without any allstars / legit second option on his team.

find a tangible weakness in his game. hint: you cant

in a much weaker era :roll:

[Dengness9]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/35086/michael-jordan-o.gif

[Paul George 24]

LeBron > Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Kobe Bryant, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Larry Bird, Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Shaquille O'Neal, Jerry West Bow down to the king! :bowdown:

did jordan ever give up his own team when losing,but leflop did :roll:

[Paul George 24]

The amount of people brainwashed by the media to think MJ is better than Bran is rediculous :facepalm

Anyone who thinks MJ is actually better needs serious help


Might as well say Mikan is the 2nd GOAT for dominating a weak era :facepalm


Scoring: LeBron is better considering his scoring on a lower pace with less possessions and higher efficiency


Rebounding: Again the fact that lebron got more rebounds with less possessions shows that he's much better rebounder

Assists: again it's LeBron

Defense: MJ guarding 6'2 white PG's who have no athleticism is better than lebron locking down d rose, melo, Paul George, and occasionally switching to Hibbert?? :wtf:

Face it MJ never had to guard anyone of importance.

Jordan abusing a weak era, playing in a much faster pace 80's and 90's, while playing exclusively for stats in many seasons (1987-1988) should not be applauded

lebron lock down rose,is it a joke :roll:
can't believe u ignore wade for the help double team rose every plays:facepalm

[Nowitness]

we aren't talking jordan without pippen (1-9 in the playoffs). this is lebron, the guy who almost won a chip without any allstars / legit second option on his team.

find a tangible weakness in his game. hint: you cant

Shame he didn't and never will, like Duncan did in 03.

[bukowski81]

:applause: It's nice to know that not everyone has been brainwashed by the Jordan hype machine that is the media.


Lebron is by far more a product of the media than Jordan. Jordan started to get ridiculous hype after he dominated everyone in the NBA. Lebron started when he was in highschool. Even after he has had some embarrasing final performances he is still ridiculously hyped, to the point that some dudes still believe he might be the GOAT.

[Fawker]

2-5 in the finals vs 6 for 6. so school me more on that.

[DJ Leon Smith]

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0612/dal_g_terry03jr_200.jpg

Bump.

[chazzy]

Originally Posted by JT123
It's nice to know that not everyone has been brainwashed by the Jordan hype machine that is the media.
This is literally a random guy

http://img.theepochtimes.com/n3/eet-content/uploads/userphoto/284.jpg
Michael Courter has a master

[JohnMax]

The article was written in November 5, 2013 before 2014 NBA Finals

[HOoopCityJones]

[QUOTE=chazzy]This is literally a random guy

http://img.theepochtimes.com/n3/eet-content/uploads/userphoto/284.jpg
Michael Courter has a master

[JT123]

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0612/dal_g_terry03jr_200.jpg

Bump.
So insecure. :oldlol:

[LakersFan626]

His Finals wasn't good, but saying it was the worst ever for an all time great is such an exaggeration. :lol Doesn't hold a candle to Kobe's 2004 Finals. :facepalm
ESPN shows with clear agendas, like First Take, completely exaggerated an off series by Lebron and basically brainwashed the world into thinking it was a huge choke job. Lebron had one bad playoff series in 4 years with the Heat, so what? Wade and Bosh had at least 4 playoff series that were equally as bad as Lebron's 2011 Finals, if not worse.

2013 Finals? That was pretty bad too.

Game 1- 7-16 (triple double but had as much impact as his triple doubles in game 6 in 2010 and game 5 in 2011)
Game 2- 7-17
Game 3- 7-21
Game 5- 8-22
Game 6-11-26, 6 turnovers, FG percentage boosted because of overtime, Allen bailed out LeBron after his miss to force overtime

There's no way LeBron is better than Jordan... Jordan was unstoppable and extremely alpha as well because there's no way he would score only eight points in a Finals game, or 7 points in an ECF game. Plus it's VERY difficult to overcome 6 rings in 6 Finals appearances, and the first three Bulls championship teams were nowhere near as deep as his last three or any of LeBron's Heat teams (Wade, Bosh, Ray Allen).

[G0ATbe]

The only thing LeBald has over MJ is he played in a stronger era and his teams were microscopically less stacked than Jordans Bulls.

[Cold soul]

Lebron was never close to Jordan level only fans that never saw MJ play said that. This isn't an insult towards Lebron in any way who let's be honest is an all-great himself, but sorry Lebron you weren't close to MJ as a player very few were if any in NBA history.

[TheMan]

Only ignorant children believe LeBron is on Jordan's level. Adults who watched both of these players primes know MJ was simply the superior player.

[scm5]

This article is so dumb.

[JT123]

2013 Finals? That was pretty bad too.

Game 1- 7-16 (triple double but had as much impact as his triple doubles in game 6 in 2010 and game 5 in 2011)
Game 2- 7-17
Game 3- 7-21
Game 5- 8-22
Game 6-11-26, 6 turnovers, FG percentage boosted because of overtime, Allen bailed out LeBron after his miss to force overtime

There's no way LeBron is better than Jordan... Jordan was unstoppable and extremely alpha as well because there's no way he would score only eight points in a Finals game, or 7 points in an ECF game. Plus it's VERY difficult to overcome 6 rings in 6 Finals appearances, and the first three Bulls championship teams were nowhere near as deep as his last three or any of LeBron's Heat teams (Wade, Bosh, Ray Allen).
I noticed you conveniently left out his stats from games 4 and 7. :sleeping
Did Lebron really get a field goal percentage boost from that game 6 overtime period? Pretty sure he didn't score more than 2 points, as he had worn himself out getting the Heat back in the game during the 4th quarter.
If averaging 25 ppg in 45% is what you call pretty bad, then that just shows what an elite player Lebron is. :bowdown: I will admit that his efficiency was pretty bad, (for his standards) but your team's star shooting guard has shot an even worse percentage in 6 of his 7 Finals appearances. So going by your own logic Kobe has played "pretty bad" in all but 1 of his 7 Finals appearances. :confusedshrug:

[Cali Syndicate]

Lebron is by far more a product of the media than Jordan. Jordan started to get ridiculous hype after he dominated everyone in the NBA. Lebron started when he was in highschool. Even after he has had some embarrasing final performances he is still ridiculously hyped, to the point that some dudes still believe he might be the GOAT.

Dude, Jordan's hype is so crazy that they created a hype after his hypeness by labeling players as the next Jordan.

[The Choken One]

6/6 > 2/5

El Oh El

[Cold soul]

Only ignorant children believe LeBron is on Jordan's level. Adults who watched both of these players primes know MJ was simply the superior player.

Exactly same as Kobe, MJ was just on whole other level.

[jrong]

Lmfao, he cites the article as a "Times piece." Sounds impressive, right? The New York Times, while it doesn't have nearly the weight that it once did, is still considered the "paper of record."

Ah, but click on the link, and it's actually from a site called Epoch Times, i.e. another one of those pages like Bleacher Report where literally anyone can get their words published.

Seriously, all of you can be published on sites like this, which don't pay their writers but do collectively dilute the value of writing credits of actual professionals in the field.

Anyway, disregard the the article's content. You can dismiss it solely on the basis of the source without even addressing its substance.

Amateurs should not have their words in print. Writing should be left to the pros, and if they must inflict their feeble prose upon the public, then do it on a message board like this or some other public forum.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Exactly same as Kobe, MJ was just on whole other level.
Kobe's on a whole nother level compared to LeBron, or Jordan?

[keep-itreal]

lol

[Just2McFly]

:oldlol: @ Jordan stans, you guys will take any bait

[Straight_Ballin]

:applause: It's nice to know that not everyone has been brainwashed by the Jordan hype machine that is the media.

It's just jealous kids that never got to see Jordan play that aren't "brain washed" as you put it.

Kids wishing their Bron was as good as Jordan simply because they were born too late to witness 6/6. :lol

[Straight_Ballin]

Only ignorant children believe LeBron is on Jordan's level. Adults who watched both of these players primes know MJ was simply the superior player.

And they dare not mutter such nonsense in real
life in front of their elders for fear of getting laughed at. Gotta love the safety net of ISH for these poor kids lol! :lol

[poido123]

:oldlol: @ Jordan stans, you guys will take any bait


People will always want to talk comparisons. We do comparisons in everyday life.

Wait til the new breed comes through diminishing Lebron's credentials when he retires :oldlol:

[SamuraiSWISH]

:oldlol: @ Jordan stans, you guys will take any bait
Why do people bait though? No attention paid to them in real life?

[Cold soul]

Kobe's on a whole nother level compared to LeBron, or Jordan?

Neither lol. I was saying MJ was on whole other level over these two. MJ was the superior player no debate here. I guess you misunderstood me my mistake.

[sdot_thadon]

Why do people bait though? No attention paid to them in real life?
Is it always bait though? I agree some of these threads are quite stupid but when it's that way consider the source. There are some out there that feel it's worth logical debate, don't throw them in the same pile.....

[c5terror]

1. Defensive Versatility

Michael Jordan used his speed and athleticism to shut down opposing perimeter players and generate turnovers. But James is just as athletic and he is capable of dominating almost any opposing player from point guards to power forwards. He is even capable of playing against some centers on defense.

To illustrate the difference between Jordan and James, let’s imagine the 2013 Heat playing against the Bulls in Jordan’s heyday.

The Heat might use 3 or 4 different players to defend Jordan in order to save James’s energy. But you can bet James would defend Jordan the best and guard him during the crucial phases of the game.

The Bulls would not have Jordan guarding James because of James’s ability to overpower him close the basket.

2. Versatility Allows Coach to Dictate Match-ups

Since James can play point guard on offense and center on defense, his coach can exploit any number of mismatches, rest anyone he wants, and dictate the personnel the other team has to have on the floor.

This versatility is hard to understate, and it is the real reason James should have been the defensive player of the year for several years.

3. Destroying the Point of Attack

James may be at his best against opposing point guards, whom he seems to swallow up with his ridiculous size and speed.

Point guard is often the hardest position for anyone to guard because of the way most teams throw screen after screen at the opposing defender. James often just cuts off the screener and the ball handler at once, as he did to Tony Parker in the 2013 finals and 2011 MVP Derrick Rose in the conference finals, effectively grinding these teams’ entire offense to a halt.

4. Foul Rate

Sending an opposing player to the free throw line is the easiest way to give the other team easy points, as most players shoot their highest percentage from there. Michael Jordan committed a foul an average of once every 14.7 minutes he was on the court. James commits a foul once every 21.1 minutes he is on the court, giving the opposing team fewer easy opportunities.

5. James Is a Better Three-Point Shooter

James’s three-point field goal percentage is only 1 percent higher than Jordan’s, but James takes an average of three times as many shots from behind the arc than Jordan did.

James’s three-point percentage has gone up for the last three consecutive years, reaching over 40 percent last year. That is considered an elite level that forces other teams to send a player out at James and opens up opportunities closer to the basket for his team-mates.

6. James Is a Better Passer

James has averaged 6.9 assists per game for his career, while Jordan averaged 5.3 assists per game. The fact that James is probably a better passer, and certainly a more willing passer; also highlights how James is better able to involve his teammates in the game and move the ball around to find the best shot.

This also demonstrates that…

7. James Is a better Teammate

Jordan was said to use intimidation to instill fear in his teammates to try and get the best out of them.

James is known to use encouragement and shows his trust in his teammates by passing them the ball throughout the game in order to instill confidence in them.

In a revealing interview with ESPN sports analyst Chris Brussard this past off-season, James said, “I love seeing the success of my teammates more than anything.” He said he wants his team to feel like a family.

Jordan is famously quoted: “There is no ‘I’ in ‘team,’ but there is in ‘win.’”

Who would you rather work with?

8. James Is a Better Rebounder

Jordan averaged 6.2 rebounds per game in his career, while Lebron is averaging 7.3 so far. With James’s superior size, it’s easy to see why he is a better rebounder.

In closing, James is a more versatile player and has a more devastating physical presence. (http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/343567-8-reasons-lebron-james-is-better-than-michael-jordan/)

Reference points:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA - lebron's passing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qmd_vOWQWx4 - lebron's scoring
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SjzMz4ZdFI - lebron's defense

1. Jordan, 3x steal leader, 3rd alltime leader in steal, won Defensive player of the year. One of the only 3 player of achieve 200+ steal and 100+ block in a single season.

-James can't defend marion, barrea, jason terry to save his life.

2. James are the worst on exploiting mismatch LOL. LeBron just standing and watching and while being guarded by parker then pass to his teamate who's in shooting slump LOL low basket ball IQ tsk tsk. you don't even need an elite defender to guard lebron cause he'll just pass the ball most of the time.

3. Parker just got cold on the final game and james isn't guarding him, he's leaving him wide open by going underneath the screen making parker a jumpshooter just like what Boris Diaw did to him last year. He's lucky parker got cold but in the 4th parker gets his rhythm and lebron can't stop him.
-patty mills, barrea, marion, parker, terry destroy his ass in the finals.

4. MJ is aggressive defensively Lebron is not.

5. Jordan only attempt 3's if needed (clutch).

6. James is not better passer LOL. He just pass more than jordan because its his game but that doesn't mean he's better passer than Jordan. Most of LBJ pass are bailout pass or just pass behind the 3pt line, Most of Jordan pass are inside pass and most came from his post play.

7. Lebron is better teamates sure I agree 100% but he's the worst Leader.

8. MJ>Lebron in rebounding skills WHY? Lebron rebound most came from easy to defensive rebound and he get it by stat padding stealing from teammate or just by standing and waiting for the opponent miss shot, he doesn't box out.

Jordan on the other hand get more offensive boards than lebron. Offensive rebound which is much more harder to get but more important than defensive boards.

Jordan offensive boards from his rookie to his 9th season(667games): 1130.
Lebron offensive boards from his rookie up to today(842games): 1030

10. Jordan Better post player/ ultimate technician/quick slick and fast
11. Jordan Better off the ball player, moving without the ball(lebron sucks on this department).
12. Jordan Better Body control and Handling
13. Jordan Better Poster
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfSftZvpHJg MJ post move
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4gigN2zMU4 MJ defense
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiTOXUmsdoM MJ Passing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHDPBmRKtKU MJ Best Move through traffic

[sdot_thadon]

1. Jordan, 3x steal leader, 3rd alltime leader in steal, won Defensive player of the year. One of the only 3 player of achieve 200+ steal and 100+ block in a single season.

-James can't defend marion, barrea, jason terry to save his life.

2. James are the worst on exploiting mismatch LOL. LeBron just standing and watching and while being guarded by parker then pass to his teamate who's in shooting slump LOL low basket ball IQ tsk tsk. you don't even need an elite defender to guard lebron cause he'll just pass the ball most of the time.

3. Parker just got cold on the final game and james isn't guarding him, he's leaving him wide open by going underneath the screen making parker a jumpshooter just like what Boris Diaw did to him last year. He's lucky parker got cold but in the 4th parker gets his rhythm and lebron can't stop him.
-patty mills, barrea, marion, parker, terry destroy his ass in the finals.

4. MJ is aggressive defensively Lebron is not.

5. Jordan only attempt 3's if needed (clutch).

6. James is not better passer LOL. He just pass more than jordan because its his game but that doesn't mean he's better passer than Jordan. Most of LBJ pass are bailout pass or just pass behind the 3pt line, Most of Jordan pass are inside pass and most came from his post play.

7. Lebron is better teamates sure I agree 100% but he's the worst Leader.

8. MJ>Lebron in rebounding skills WHY? Lebron rebound most came from easy to defensive rebound and he get it by stat padding stealing from teammate or just by standing and waiting for the opponent miss shot, he doesn't box out.

Jordan on the other hand get more offensive boards than lebron. Offensive rebound which is much more harder to get but more important than defensive boards.

Jordan offensive boards from his rookie to his 9th season(667games): 1130.
Lebron offensive boards from his rookie up to today(842games): 1030

10. Jordan Better post player/ ultimate technician/quick slick and fast
11. Jordan Better off the ball player, moving without the ball(lebron sucks on this department).
12. Jordan Better Body control and Handling
13. Jordan Better Poster
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfSftZvpHJg MJ post move
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4gigN2zMU4 MJ defense
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiTOXUmsdoM MJ Passing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHDPBmRKtKU MJ Best Move through traffic
See, it's like you got it half way right and the other half is troll material. That's the reason you guys get trolled so hard.....neither side really ever presents fully logical points. Always has the slant in there. Be real about it and these debates could get really good.

[DJ Leon Smith]

Can you blinded Jordan stans please realize this thread CLEARLY shows how LeBron is better than Jordan.

Compare their second trip to the NBA Finals.

LeBron (2011): Outscored by Dirk, Wade, Bosh and Jason Terry and loses the NBA Finals.

Jordan (1992): Outscored by Drexler, Pippen, Grant and Danny Ainge and loses the NBA Finals.

JORDAN STANS STEP BACK :cheers:

[sdot_thadon]

Can you blinded Jordan stans please realize this thread CLEARLY shows how LeBron is better than Jordan.

Compare their second trip to the NBA Finals.

LeBron (2011): Outscored by Dirk, Wade, Bosh and Jason Terry and loses the NBA Finals.

Jordan (1992): Outscored by Drexler, Pippen, Grant and Danny Ainge and loses the NBA Finals.

JORDAN STANS STEP BACK :cheers:
Pretty strong point, can you guys help me understand some things? I see context is non existent in these comparisons, at least for Mj. Why is that? We know some things were going on under the hood with LeBron during that finals, he shat the bed no doubt. Mj never was in a situation even close to similar though. Seems like Mj is exempt from context and if by chance anyone does edge him out in any aspect context is immediately used to tear down whatever accomplishments are being discussed. Why is that?

[PsychoBe]

Pretty strong point, can you guys help me understand some things? I see context is non existent in these comparisons, at least for Mj. Why is that? We know some things were going on under the hood with LeBron during that finals, he shat the bed no doubt. Mj never was in a situation even close to similar though. Seems like Mj is exempt from context and if by chance anyone does edge him out in any aspect context is immediately used to tear down whatever accomplishments are being discussed. Why is that?

makes no sense. in what contest should it be excused that a "top 10 oat" talent "shitting the bed" would somehow me forgiveable? in what situation is that "okay"? because he played alongside d-wade or something?

[Straight_Ballin]

A common misconception on ISH is that posters think that the opinion of MJ by someone who never saw MJ play matters. It doesn't, and it's laughable and entertaining to think it does.

It would be like me saying Wilt was not a great player.

I never saw him play live....what does my opinion matter?

But as far as Bron, MJ and Kobe are concerned? Saw them all, and disappointed that Kobe and Bron with all the advancements in sports STILL do not measure up to MJ. It is what it is. Accept it and deal with it I guess.

[smoovegittar]

Talk to me when he wins 4 more rings.

[TheMan]

And they dare not mutter such nonsense in real
life in front of their elders for fear of getting laughed at. Gotta love the safety net of ISH for these poor kids lol! :lol
Yeah, those "debates" would be as short and one sided as this...:oldlol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C62zHgyt9cU&feature=youtube_gdata_player
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmpovf9Adr1qglla3o1_500.jpg

[red1]

Lmfao, he cites the article as a "Times piece." Sounds impressive, right? The New York Times, while it doesn't have nearly the weight that it once did, is still considered the "paper of record."

Ah, but click on the link, and it's actually from a site called Epoch Times, i.e. another one of those pages like Bleacher Report where literally anyone can get their words published.

Seriously, all of you can be published on sites like this, which don't pay their writers but do collectively dilute the value of writing credits of actual professionals in the field.

Anyway, disregard the the article's content. You can dismiss it solely on the basis of the source without even addressing its substance.

Amateurs should not have their words in print. Writing should be left to the pros, and if they must inflict their feeble prose upon the public, then do it on a message board like this or some other public forum.
:roll:

[sdot_thadon]

makes no sense. in what contest should it be excused that a "top 10 oat" talent "shitting the bed" would somehow me forgiveable? in what situation is that "okay"? because he played alongside d-wade or something?
Well the situation was definitely unique and perhaps requires a unique perspective as well. To dryly compare it to mj's script in which he never encountered anything near that is just plain dumb. Again though this isn't only about lebron, it's an ugly double standard used against any player being compared to Mj.

[Knoe Itawl]

I disagree with LBJ being greater than Jordan, but I dig the effort by OP... He layed out reasons, and as long as no one is debunking or countering, he's winning... Y'all acting like OP is the troll when you can't even argue his stance or think Kobe is > LeBron :facepalm

Apparently you didn't bother to read the whole thread or you'd realize that there was a total debunking of it.

Also, he's not "wining" anything. Most of the time people don't bother to repsond to this type of thing because it's only the mentally challenged or trolls who post that Lebron is better than Jordan. Most probably don't even believe it themselves, but are trying to get reactions.

I like Lebron, and think it would actually be cool if he was in that league since I miss seeing Jordan, and it would be great to see someone come along and have that kind of dominance again. Most Jordan fans feel similarily I think. It's not about Jordan the man, it's about his talent. Talent we'd love to see again. Maybe Bron goes into some other gear the rest of his career and somehow gets close, but doesn't seem likely at this point. I'd be more than happy to admit it if he did/does.

[mehyaM24]

Apparently you didn't bother to read the whole thread or you'd realize that there was a total debunking of it.

no there wasn't. nothing i have seen debunked the articles bullet points, save for the usual posters trolling and throwing around red-herrings. par for the course in these discussions.

[tpols]

1. Defensive Versatility

Michael Jordan used his speed and athleticism to shut down opposing perimeter players and generate turnovers. But James is just as athletic and he is capable of dominating almost any opposing player from point guards to power forwards. He is even capable of playing against some centers on defense.

To illustrate the difference between Jordan and James, let’s imagine the 2013 Heat playing against the Bulls in Jordan’s heyday.

The Heat might use 3 or 4 different players to defend Jordan in order to save James’s energy. But you can bet James would defend Jordan the best and guard him during the crucial phases of the game.

The Bulls would not have Jordan guarding James because of James’s ability to overpower him close the basket.



What? As long as the bulls had a boris diaw level defender they could effectively contain LeBron.. Sure jordan wouldnt be the ideal defender for lebron, as he gives up too much size.. but lebrons post game has gone up and down to extreme measures his whole career.. he has years where he was absolutely terrible in the post.. in the 2013 Finals specifically, he had some of the worst post scoring efficiencies from a top scorer in the history of basketball.

Jordan requires way more defensive attention and gameplanning than Lebron does.. no question.



2. Versatility Allows Coach to Dictate Match-ups

Since James can play point guard on offense and center on defense, his coach can exploit any number of mismatches, rest anyone he wants, and dictate the personnel the other team has to have on the floor.

This versatility is hard to understate, and it is the real reason James should have been the defensive player of the year for several years.

The Heat got murdered by a Roy Hibbert/David West combo.. both were 20/10 players against the Heat in 2013.. 40/20 combined. :lol Lebron does absolutely nothing to limit an even decent frontcourt.. if he had to face the olajuwans, robinsons, mournings, ewings of the 90s it would look even worse.



3. Destroying the Point of Attack

James may be at his best against opposing point guards, whom he seems to swallow up with his ridiculous size and speed.

Point guard is often the hardest position for anyone to guard because of the way most teams throw screen after screen at the opposing defender. James often just cuts off the screener and the ball handler at once, as he did to Tony Parker in the 2013 finals and 2011 MVP Derrick Rose in the conference finals, effectively grinding these teams’ entire offense to a halt.

And Lebron got effectively destroyed by Jason Terry and Kawhi Leanoard.. so, sure he can limit PG's who cant shoot(although tony was very effective against him in the clutch.. rays game 6 shot overshadowed his two 4th quarter comebacks while being guarded by lebron), but he can also get lit up by role players who have a jumpshot since his close out perimeter defense is nothing special.. which is also why an old shane battier has often drawn the toughest assignments.



4. Foul Rate

Sending an opposing player to the free throw line is the easiest way to give the other team easy points, as most players shoot their highest percentage from there. Michael Jordan committed a foul an average of once every 14.7 minutes he was on the court. James commits a foul once every 21.1 minutes he is on the court, giving the opposing team fewer easy opportunities.


This is a nonpoint..



5. James Is a Better Three-Point Shooter

James’s three-point field goal percentage is only 1 percent higher than Jordan’s, but James takes an average of three times as many shots from behind the arc than Jordan did.

James’s three-point percentage has gone up for the last three consecutive years, reaching over 40 percent last year. That is considered an elite level that forces other teams to send a player out at James and opens up opportunities closer to the basket for his team-mates.

3 pt shot is more relevant today.. doesnt mean much in a comparison with Jordan.. MJ's midrange figures blow lebron's out of the water.. you know the shots that are often the best option for closing games..



6. James Is a Better Passer

James has averaged 6.9 assists per game for his career, while Jordan averaged 5.3 assists per game. The fact that James is probably a better passer, and certainly a more willing passer; also highlights how James is better able to involve his teammates in the game and move the ball around to find the best shot.

This also demonstrates that…

Just a more willing passer due to less scoring ability. Hes thrown away multiple series with overpassing and passiveness while Jordan always took over.



7. James Is a better Teammate

Jordan was said to use intimidation to instill fear in his teammates to try and get the best out of them.

James is known to use encouragement and shows his trust in his teammates by passing them the ball throughout the game in order to instill confidence in them.

In a revealing interview with ESPN sports analyst Chris Brussard this past off-season, James said, “I love seeing the success of my teammates more than anything.” He said he wants his team to feel like a family.

Jordan is famously quoted: “There is no ‘I’ in ‘team,’ but there is in ‘win.’”

Who would you rather work with?

Better teammate? He has ditched every team hes ever been on when the going got tough or his teammates were no longer advantageous as props for his legacy. He showed zero leadership this past finals to rally his guys in the face of adversity, and dipped with quickness after going down quietly.



8. James Is a Better Rebounder

Jordan averaged 6.2 rebounds per game in his career, while Lebron is averaging 7.3 so far. With James’s superior size, it’s easy to see why he is a better rebounder.


Who cares about 1-2 extra rebounds? Most of them being defensive anyway while competing with his own teams nonexistatnt frontcourt.. in all series with great rebounding teams Lebron has done nothing to limit their effectiveness.. his teams have been ass rebounding and hes done nothing to change it.. outside of the late 2000s clelveland teams who had a bunch of other guys doing the dirty work to make them a top rebounding team. If Lebron was so great in this aspect and was carrying CLE's rebounding we wouldve seen a carryover to miami.. didnt happen.. by a long shot.

[pauk]

Sorry, but Jordan never did this

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg

He would if he also came to a completely new team with offensive chemistry problems, first time with 2 stars, as a facilitator & take only 1-4 FGA in a quarter.

Completely different mindsets offensively anyways, Lebron is more closer to Magic offensively or even Bird than he is to Jordan.... and both sure did "do that" above alot of times because of it.... but Jordan, hell naw, he would take like 27-30 FGA in the playoffs, especially in Finals, so even if he shot HORRIBLE he would get his points..... a la Kobe.... but is that better? Not necessarily, because missing a vast amount of shots are wasted off. possessions, possessions which you could have used to find a better shot for your teammates (or for yourself)....

[Cali Syndicate]

He would if he also came to a completely new team with offensive chemistry problems, first time with 2 stars, as a facilitator & take only 1-4 FGA in a quarter.

Completely different mindsets offensively anyways, Lebron is more closer to Magic offensively or even Bird than he is to Jordan.... and both sure did "do that" above alot of times because of it.... but Jordan, hell naw, he would take like 27-30 FGA in the playoffs, especially in Finals, so even if he shot HORRIBLE he would get his points..... a la Kobe.... but is that better? Not necessarily, because missing a vast amount of shots are wasted off. possessions, possessions which you could have used to find a better shot for your teammates (or for yourself)....

So where was this drop in Lebron's production due to "offensive chemistry problems" throughout rest of the playoffs? Oh right, none of those series were the FINALS. Lebron got shook, period.

[pauk]

So where was this drop in Lebron's production due to "offensive chemistry problems" throughout rest of the playoffs? Oh right, none of those series were the FINALS. Lebron got shook, period.

Individually for him 11' Finals i think was a massive unselfishness / trying to make the right play back-fire, Lebron-Wade played this "my turn-your turn" game that season, whoever had it going was the guy to get the shots...... i mean its not like he played/shot bad or something, but he went all passive...... he averaged like 14 FGA for the entire series for gods sake........ why? Dwyane Wade had it going and they were actually doing good believe it or not with Lebron deciding to defer / be passive, maybe thats what fooled him, they won 2 games that way and were very close in those others, its mostly in the clutch they lost (where both Wade & Lebron failed to deliver)..... his decision making in that Finals proved to be wrong, just way to passive........ if he went out guns blazing he sure would get better PPG, but im not sure if they would win? I mean you have to respect how great Mavs were (and how crazy Dirk was that playoffs), they killed okc and swept the defending champs (Lakers/Kobe), it seems like they were not gona be denied and always had an answer...

[ArbitraryWater]

This is a nonpoint..



lolled at this... true though. Take out the "foul rate" thing and then you got 7 somewhat legit arguments.

[c5terror]

1. Jordan, 3x steal leader, 3rd alltime leader in steal, won Defensive player of the year. One of the only 3 player of achieve 200+ steal and 100+ block in a single season, only player to achieve it twice.

-James can't defend marion, barrea, jason terry to save his life.

2. James are the worst on exploiting mismatch LOL. LeBron just standing and watching and while being guarded by parker then pass to his teamate who's in shooting slump LOL low basket ball IQ tsk tsk. you don't even need an elite defender to guard lebron cause he'll just pass the ball most of the time.

3. Parker just got cold on the final game and james isn't guarding him, he's leaving him wide open by going underneath the screen making parker a jumpshooter just like what Boris Diaw did to him last year. He's lucky parker got cold but in the 4th parker gets his rhythm and lebron can't stop him.
-patty mills, barrea, marion, parker, terry destroy his ass in the finals.

4. MJ is aggressive defensively Lebron is not.

5. Jordan only attempt 3's if needed (clutch). Jordan miles better in mid range than lebron. Lebron FT% are LOL for the type of player he is.

6. James is not better passer LOL. He just pass more than jordan because its his game but that doesn't mean he's better passer than Jordan. Most of LBJ pass are bailout pass or just pass behind the 3pt line, Most of Jordan pass are inside pass and most came from his post play.

7. Lebron is better teamates sure I agree 100% but he's the worst Leader.

8. MJ>Lebron in rebounding skills WHY? Lebron rebound most came from easy to defensive rebound and he get it by stat padding stealing from teammate or just by standing and waiting for the opponent miss shot, he doesn't box out.

Jordan on the other hand get more offensive boards than lebron. Offensive rebound which is much more harder to get but more important than defensive boards.

Jordan offensive boards from his rookie to his 9th season(667games): 1130.
Lebron offensive boards from his rookie up to today(842games): 1030

10. Jordan Better post player/ ultimate technician/quick slick and fast
11. Jordan Better off the ball player, moving without the ball(lebron sucks on this department).
12. Jordan Better Body control and Handling
13. Jordan Better Poster
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfSftZvpHJg MJ post move
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4gigN2zMU4 MJ defense
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiTOXUmsdoM MJ Passing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHDPBmRKtKU MJ Best Move through traffic
This should end the debate.
and to add
Sonics defense on Jordan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WpkXlrJxtw
Lebron can't handle this type of physical play

[aj1987]

What? As long as the bulls had a boris diaw level defender they could effectively contain LeBron.. Sure jordan wouldnt be the ideal defender for lebron, as he gives up too much size.. but lebrons post game has gone up and down to extreme measures his whole career.. he has years where he was absolutely terrible in the post.. in the 2013 Finals specifically, he had some of the worst post scoring efficiencies from a top scorer in the history of basketball.
Stop living in '11, fool. LeBron has been an ELITE post player since '12. Diaw "contained" LeBron for what? 10 Minutes a game in 2 games? Honestly, you'd be filling up buckets if Kobe averaged 25/11/7/2/1 in the Finals (not saying that he didn't do better or get similar numbers). You'd be propping it up one of the GOAT performances. Don't even deny it. Sure, LeBron's shot was completely off in the Finals in '13. He hit them when it counted the most though.


Jordan requires way more defensive attention and gameplanning than Lebron does.. no question.
Sure. MJ a much better off-ball, post, and mid-range player. Lets not act like LeBron is a really good (elite) catch and shoot player though. Or that he's and amazingly good finisher at the rim. A better 3 point shooter as well.

MJ is definitely a better offensive player. Not even an argument, but stop acting like LeBron is not close (offensively).




The Heat got murdered by a Roy Hibbert/David West combo.. both were 20/10 players against the Heat in 2013.. 40/20 combined. :lol Lebron does absolutely nothing to limit an even decent frontcourt.. if he had to face the olajuwans, robinsons, mournings, ewings of the 90s it would look even worse.
:oldlol: @ the Heat's FC being decent in '13. LeBron was mostly on the perimeter. Battier/Bosh/Birdman were guarding West/Hibbert. How the **** is LeBron gonna shut down two players at the same time?

And Lebron got effectively destroyed by Jason Terry and Kawhi Leanoard..
Yeah, he got destroyed by Barea, Terry, Marion, and Dirk in '11. Anyone else, who I'm missing? Everyone who scored well against the Heat = destroyed LeBron. Such a retarded assessment. According to your idiotic logic, Kobe got torched and analy raped by Croshere, Miller, AI, RIP, Billups,and Kidd, during the 3peat. Thank god he had Shaq to bail him out.



so, sure he can limit PG's who cant shoot(although tony was very effective against him in the clutch..
All the while forgetting the fact that he effectively shut down their penetration. S

Those TP shots from Game 1 and 6 were incredible. He would've make them over peak MJ.


rays game 6 shot overshadowed his two 4th quarter comebacks while being guarded by lebron)
At the same time you idiots ignore LeBron's 7-10 16 points in the very same 4th quarter.



but he can also get lit up by role players who have a jumpshot
Which probably happens once in every ~15 games. Happens to the very best defenders. Not saying that LeBron is the best defender or anything. He was garbage in the '14 RS. Doesn't change the fact that he still is an ELITE defender when it matters.


since his close out perimeter defense is nothing special.. which is also why an old shane battier has often drawn the toughest assignments.
:facepalm

Just proves that you never actually saw Heat games. Battier never actually guarded perimeter players. He didn't have the lateral quickness to do it on the Heat. It was Wade and LeBron who guarded the perimeter players. Battier guarded SF's, PF's, and even C's.


3 pt shot is more relevant today.. doesnt mean much in a comparison with Jordan.. MJ's midrange figures blow lebron's out of the water.. you know the shots that are often the best option for closing games..
I remember the Heat winning most of their games (close ones) by shooting 3's or shooting at the rim. You're an idiot to the highest degree, if you actually believe that 3pt shooting doesn't matter much. Who the **** do you think opens up a player for mid-range shots? The game (not the players, but the game) has evolved. More 3pt shooting, stretching out defenses, etc.


Just a more willing passer due to less scoring ability. Hes thrown away multiple series with overpassing and passiveness while Jordan always took over.
:facepalm

Would you say the same about Bird as well? He did lose in 2 finals. Or Magic? He lost in 4 Finals. West? Meanwhile, Kobe Chucked his team out of 2 titles. Almost another one in '10 as well. You do realize that the Finals last season would've been closer if Wade/CBitch/Shitmers/etc. played a little better, right? The whole teams outside of LeBron sucked ass in the Finals.



Who cares about 1-2 extra rebounds? Most of them being defensive anyway while competing with his own teams nonexistatnt frontcourt.. in all series with great rebounding teams Lebron has done nothing to limit their effectiveness.. his teams have been ass rebounding and hes done nothing to change it.. outside of the late 2000s clelveland teams who had a bunch of other guys doing the dirty work to make them a top rebounding team. If Lebron was so great in this aspect and was carrying CLE's rebounding we wouldve seen a carryover to miami.. didnt happen.. by a long shot.
He led the Heat in rebounding in the RS AND the Playoffs since '12. That's 3 years in a row. Holy shit, you're an ****ing retard.


All that being said, MJ >> LeBron. How the **** are you gonna compare the GOAT to a borderline top 10 player?

[ArbitraryWater]

I think LeBron has clear top 5 potential.. hell, he may already be there.

[no pun intended]

Did anyone bother to check the source? What the hell is Epoch Times?

[dubeta]

Efficiency should be another point, once Jordan's athleticism faded his fg% dropped to like 47-49%

LeBron on the other hand improves his fg% as his athleticism fades, shooting a career best 57% last year, thats a huge difference


Jordan relied too much on athleticism imo, didnt have the total offensive package like Lebron

Jordan needing 4-5 more shots for 4-5 more points isnt noteworthy

[SamuraiSWISH]

How the **** are you gonna compare the GOAT to a borderline top 10 player?
4x MVPs
2x Rings
2x Finals MVPs

b4 30 years old

and he's "borderline top ten" now?

Just 2 months ago, before heading back home while wearing a Miami jersey, you were all over this guy's pipe. My how quickly things change.

[aj1987]

4x MVPs
2x Rings
2x Finals MVPs

b4 30 years old

and he's "borderline top ten" now?

Just 2 months ago, before heading back home while wearing a Miami jersey, you were all over this guy's pipe. My how quickly things change.
I still like the dude. I only said borderline because I don't want to knock Hakeem/Kobe out of the top 10 just yet. I have him at #10 along with Hakeem, but a lot of people do not. The still consider Hakeem to be better than LeBron (legacy wise) Did you just skip over the rest of my post?

[SamuraiSWISH]

Efficiency should be another point, once Jordan's athleticism faded his fg% dropped to like 47-49%
You act like that's bad? That's while being past his physical prime from ages 33 to 35.

We don't know how LeBron will be at that stage without his athleticism. He's still in his prime, and even his physical prime.

Also, that 47% - 49% was almost EXCLUSIVELY off mid range, contested jump shots. Not transition dunks, run outs, fast break points, or even a lot of dribble pentration to significantly boot efficiency that a player in their physical prime enjoys.

At comparable ages as current LeBron, MJ was hsooting @ or above 50% from the field, while putting up 4 to 5 ppg more volume.

That's actually quite amazing show of ELITE skill him shooting 47% - 49% off only jumpers at older age. Obviously, you wouldn't understand this.

[SamuraiSWISH]

I still like the dude. I only said borderline because I don't want to knock Hakeem/Kobe out of the top 10 just yet. I have him at #10 along with Hakeem, but a lot of people do not. The still consider Hakeem to be better than LeBron (legacy wise) Did you just skip over the rest of my post?
I thought that line was funny considering your previous knob slobbing opinion of him just a couple months ago. I don't see how already LeBron doesn't have a case over Wilt, Hakeem, Shaq, Kobe, or even Magic to be honest? He's most likely going to end up top five all-time.

[dubeta]

You act like that's bad? That's while being past his physical prime from ages 33 to 35.

We don't know how LeBron will be at that stage without his athleticism. He's still in his prime, and even his physical prime.

Also, that 47% - 49% was almost EXCLUSIVELY off mid range, contested jump shots. Not transition dunks, run outs, fast break points, or even a lot of dribble pentration to significantly boot efficiency that a player in their physical prime enjoys.

At comparable ages as current LeBron, MJ was hsooting @ or above 50% from the field, while putting up 4 to 5 ppg more volume.

That's actually quite amazing show of ELITE skill him shooting 47% - 49% off only jumpers at older age. Obviously, you wouldn't understand this.

Isnt that the same argument kobe stans say? "45% is amazing cause its all hard shots!"

http://i.imgur.com/ciZuJt6.jpg


By Jordan's 7th year, at the age of 28, his fg% began plummeting, LeBron is increases his by his 11th year. So LeBron is shooting nearly 8-9% higher even at later years than MJ

AND Jordan was doing this in a era of inflated fg%, every wing was shooting 50+%, look it up, Bird, Magic were all 50% shooters


In Lebrons era, wings shoot 44-45%


So MJ was shooting 47-49% in a era were people were shooting 50-51% (3-4% worse than others) while LeBron is shooting 57% in a era where everyone is shooting 43-44% (13-15% BETTER)
:facepalm

[TheMan]

Efficiency should be another point, once Jordan's athleticism faded his fg% dropped to like 47-49%

LeBron on the other hand improves his fg% as his athleticism fades, shooting a career best 57% last year, thats a huge difference


Jordan relied too much on athleticism imo, didnt have the total offensive package like Lebron

Jordan needing 4-5 more shots for 4-5 more points isnt noteworthy
:facepalm Mods?

[aj1987]

I thought that line was funny considering your previous knob slobbing opinion of him just a couple months ago. I don't see how already LeBron doesn't have a case over Wilt, Hakeem, Shaq, Kobe, or even Magic to be honest? He's most likely going to end up top five all-time.
When the **** did I say that he doesn't have a case over those guys. Dude is likely gonna end up as the 2nd GOAT.

As I said, did you just skip reading the rest of my post? If you actually read the rest of my post, you would know that I'm actually saying that even though MJ >> LeBron, they're still pretty comparable as players.

Stop being dense.

[tpols]

Stop living in '11, fool. LeBron has been an ELITE post player since '12. Diaw "contained" LeBron for what? 10 Minutes a game in 2 games? Honestly, you'd be filling up buckets if Kobe averaged 25/11/7/2/1 in the Finals (not saying that he didn't do better or get similar numbers). You'd be propping it up one of the GOAT performances. Don't even deny it. Sure, LeBron's shot was completely off in the Finals in '13. He hit them when it counted the most though.

A few things.. Lebron's post game has improved since 2011.. BUT its had lapses. Go look up his post up efficiencies for 2013 Finals. They were TERRIBLE. He couldnt post in that series.. Thats where throwing diaw at him for stretches worked.. he couldnt move the guy and got frustrated.

As far as 25/11/7 being crazy? Kobe averaged 29/8/4/2/1 in 2010 Finals dude.. and he gets ripped to shreds for that series. :lol

So... you were saying??





:oldlol: @ the Heat's FC being decent in '13. LeBron was mostly on the perimeter. Battier/Bosh/Birdman were guarding West/Hibbert. How the **** is LeBron gonna shut down two players at the same time?

You misunderstood my statement. I said Lebron does nothing to limit an even decent frontcourt.. as in an OPPOSING frontcourt.. which is why I was talking about david west and roy hibbert. The article said one of the 8 MAJOR reasons Lebron > MJ is because he can switch on centers and big men while MJ cannot. Despite the fact that he can play centers better than MJ could, he has never shut down a center or opposing frontcourt despite having that advantage. He never guarded david west for extended periods of times trying to limit him and when he did?

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2690147/lefloppin2.gif

He flopped and acted like a b!tch instead of manning up and using his huge frame to do work. :oldlol:





Yeah, he got destroyed by Barea, Terry, Marion, and Dirk in '11. Anyone else, who I'm missing? Everyone who scored well against the Heat = destroyed LeBron. Such a retarded assessment. According to your idiotic logic, Kobe got torched and analy raped by Croshere, Miller, AI, RIP, Billups,and Kidd, during the 3peat. Thank god he had Shaq to bail him out.

Who has ever said Barea or marion torched Lebron?? Aside from that one time Lebron tried posting barea up and failed I dont remember the two coming into much contact with each other.. It was really just Terry.

They thought they could give him the drose treatment and it backfired.. bad.




Just proves that you never actually saw Heat games. Battier never actually guarded perimeter players. He didn't have the lateral quickness to do it on the Heat. It was Wade and LeBron who guarded the perimeter players. Battier guarded SF's, PF's, and even C's.

Thats not true at all.. Battier has been given assigments on perimeter guys a handful of times. I remember some bran stan was 'educating' me on the fact that Shane Battier guarded Kawhi Leonard in the 2014 Finals more than Lebron did.. Battier has been thrown on PF's, SF's and SG's during his stint with the Heat.

Yea I havent watched any heat games. :oldlol: I've literally been in every major game thread from the second round on involving the Heat for the past 4 years..



I remember the Heat winning most of their games (close ones) by shooting 3's or shooting at the rim. You're an idiot to the highest degree, if you actually believe that 3pt shooting doesn't matter much. Who the **** do you think opens up a player for mid-range shots? The game (not the players, but the game) has evolved. More 3pt shooting, stretching out defenses, etc.


I said its more relevant in todays game.. where did I say it doesnt matter??

:facepalm



Would you say the same about Bird as well? He did lose in 2 finals. Or Magic? He lost in 4 Finals. West? Meanwhile, Kobe Chucked his team out of 2 titles. Almost another one in '10 as well. You do realize that the Finals last season would've been closer if Wade/CBitch/Shitmers/etc. played a little better, right? The whole teams outside of LeBron sucked ass in the Finals.

Poor leadership. Lebron quit on his guys in game 1 with cramps.. and never rallied his guys. A guy like MJ wouldve been enraged getting blown out by a team 4 games in historically bad fashion.. he wouldve exploded early in games and had guys follow his lead.. not take 2 shots in the first half and start statpadding once the game is out of reach. :oldlol:

But thats the main difference between the two.. competitiveness.



He led the Heat in rebounding in the RS AND the Playoffs since '12. That's 3 years in a row. Holy shit, you're an ****ing retard.
Where did I say Lebron's a poor rebounder? I said he doesnt do a ton to make a team a great rebounding team in terms of league rank or in the playoffs where the heat always got murked on the boards. Lebron's rebounding isnt a gamechanger and isnt all that important in a comparison with MJ.



All that being said, MJ >> LeBron. How the **** are you gonna compare the GOAT to a borderline top 10 player?

All that defending to come to this..

1. I respond to an article stating a bunch of reasons why Bran > MJ.
2. My responses go in line with the opposite notion.
3. You point by point disagree with all my responses.
4. And then you conclude your rebuttal by agreeing with me.

:facepalm

[ArbitraryWater]

Scoring 29 ppg isn't impressive when it comes at a 40% Clip... When are y'all going to get that in your head :oldlol:

"quit on his Team with the cramps" about the dumbest thing I've ever seen

Stupid LeBron deciding to get cramps

[red1]

mj >> legawd

[aj1987]

A few things.. Lebron's post game has improved since 2011.. BUT its had lapses. Go look up his post up efficiencies for 2013 Finals. They were TERRIBLE. He couldnt post in that series.. Thats where throwing diaw at him for stretches worked.. he couldnt move the guy and got frustrated.
His shot was completely off. Isn't that what I said? He just went cold in a couple of games, but as I said, he hit them when they needed it the most. His post game was not gonna win the Heat many games agains that Spurs team though. They knew that and gave him jumpers. His jumper was broke as well. That's the reason why the Spurs were able to take the Heat to 7. Heck, if his shot was on, that would've been a 5-6 game series.


As far as 25/11/7 being crazy? Kobe averaged 29/8/4/2/1 in 2010 Finals dude.. and he gets ripped to shreds for that series. :lol
Yeah, he took horrible shots, and literally chucked his team out of the series.


You misunderstood my statement. I said Lebron does nothing to limit an even decent frontcourt.. as in an OPPOSING frontcourt.. which is why I was talking about david west and roy hibbert. The article said one of the 8 MAJOR reasons Lebron > MJ is because he can switch on centers and big men while MJ cannot. Despite the fact that he can play centers better than MJ could, he has never shut down a center or opposing frontcourt despite having that advantage. He never guarded david west for extended periods of times trying to limit him and when he did?
As I said, if LeBron was guarding for longer stretches, and PG went ham, what would you be saying? LeBron is a loss-loss situation with his versatility. I do agree that he can't shut down most PF's/C's, but he sure as hell can slow down a couple of them.


He flopped and acted like a b!tch instead of manning up and using his huge frame to do work. :oldlol:
And what was West doing in that GIF? I HATE flopping. I've said numerous times that the first incident alone should lead to a suspension, but that actually worked, right? Not a good GIF to use to support your argument.


Who has ever said Barea or marion torched Lebron?? Aside from that one time Lebron tried posting barea up and failed I dont remember the two coming into much contact with each other.. It was really just Terry.
Welcome to ISH. If LeBron was solely dedicated to guarding Terry and shut him down, he would be blamed for Marion/Dirk/etc. going off. That is what always happens. LeBron limits (or at least tries to) a player and he gets blamed for another going ham.


Thats not true at all.. Battier has been given assigments on perimeter guys a handful of times. I remember some bran stan was 'educating' me on the fact that Shane Battier guarded Kawhi Leonard in the 2014 Finals more than Lebron did.. Battier has been thrown on PF's, SF's and SG's during his stint with the Heat.
Not really on SG's. I agree and already said that he was guarding mostly SF's/PF's/C's. Also, are you forgetting that Battier played like 15 minutes a game after the '12 Playoffs? Who was guarding them the rest of the time?


Yea I havent watched any heat games. :oldlol: I've literally been in every major game thread from the second round on involving the Heat for the past 4 years..
Yeah, you probably have been too busy with the GT's then.



I said its more relevant in todays game.. where did I say it doesnt matter??
When you tried to brush it off like it wasn't an advantage that LeBron had over MJ?



Poor leadership. Lebron quit on his guys in game 1 with cramps.. and never rallied his guys. A guy like MJ wouldve been enraged getting blown out by a team 4 games in historically bad fashion.. he wouldve exploded early in games and had guys follow his lead.. not take 2 shots in the first half and start statpadding once the game is out of reach. :oldlol:

But thats the main difference between the two.. competitiveness.


Where did I say Lebron's a poor rebounder? I said he doesnt do a ton to make a team a great rebounding team in terms of league rank or in the playoffs where the heat always got murked on the boards. Lebron's rebounding isnt a gamechanger and isnt all that important in a comparison with MJ.


All that defending to come to this..

1. I respond to an article stating a bunch of reasons why Bran > MJ.
2. My responses go in line with the opposite notion.
3. You point by point disagree with all my responses.
4. And then you conclude your rebuttal by agreeing with me.

:facepalm
Not really, dude. Your initially post was most of LeBron bashing than actually making a case for the article being total BS.

[Imtheman]

What exactly is this supposed to prove? :wtf:
Lebron is a PASS FIRST all around player. Bringing up his point totals when he was deferring to Wade really makes no sense.
That's unacceptable. Jordan never did that.

[dubeta]

LOOL tpols cant defend Kobe from LeBron anymore so he now has to use MJ :roll:

[AirBonner]

Great thread op. 2016 was the cherry on top that cemented this notion

[3ball]

Great thread op. 2016 was the cherry on top that cemented this notion
OP only lists 1 reason. I don't see 8

So this is a BS thread

And 2016 means nothing because it's offset by 6 other losses.. who cares about the 1 time he got lucky with a key suspension and his 2nd option killing the league MVP

Ultimately, Lebron needs an equal scoring and usage partner to win (Wade, Kyrie, AD), whereas MJ scored 10-30 more than Pippen for every series of his career with 50% more usage (aka carry jobs)

[FKAri]

OP only lists 1 reason. I don't see 8

So this is a BS thread

And 2016 means nothing because it's offset by 6 other losses.. who cares about the 1 time he got lucky

Ultimately, Lebron needs an equal scoring and usage partner to win (Wade, Kyrie, AD), whereas MJ scored 10-30 more than Pippen for every series of his career with 50% more usage (aka carry jobs)

MJ was also going against dogshit teams with no competition at his position. I won't even get into the rigging but I will say that MJ is the only superstar in NBA history to lose with a rig in HIS favor (1990). Lastly, I would like to remind everyone that MJ had a tiny c0ck as reported by his medical examiner in 1987.

[3ball]

MJ was also going against dogshit teams with no competition at his position. I won't even get into the rigging but I will say that MJ is the only superstar in NBA history to lose with a rig in HIS favor (1990). Lastly, I would like to remind everyone that MJ had a tiny c0ck as reported by his medical examiner in 1987.
How many wins for a team where everyone on the team was a worse scorer than Horace Grant?

0-82 probably

Otoh, Love and Bosh won 40+ games as #1 option

So Lebron's "better comp" argument is offset by him having better help, aka a 3rd scorer star

people simply ignore that Lebron had the best help in the league from 2011-2014, and his 2015 Cavs were favored before Kyrie's injury and subsequent underachievement in the regular season.. So he had the best help

Ultimately, you can't compare teams from a Big 3 vs. Big 3 format to the Big 2 teams from Jordans era - obviously, if we gave the 98' Jazz a 3rd star, they could beat anyone in history (they already demolished Shaq, Duncan and Hakeem without a Big 3.. couldn't beat the goat though)

Btw, if MJ lost to the Jazz, everyone would say the Jazz were a goat team.. so Lebron's losses elevate his opponents

[Rico2016]

we aren't talking jordan without pippen (1-9 in the playoffs). this is lebron, the guy who almost won a chip without any allstars / legit second option on his team.

find a tangible weakness in his game. hint: you cant


Plus don't forget MJ has no good chips compared to 2012, 2013, or 2016.

[ImKobe]

Plus don't forget MJ has no good chips compared to 2012, 2013, or 2016.

MJ's rings are right there with Bill Russell's. Bill Russell might have faced better teams tbh.

[FKAri]

MJ's rings are right there with Bill Russell's. Bill Russell might have faced better teams tbh.

Bill Russell? Why is he propped up to such an extent whereas the rest of his teammates are treated like scrubs? He was the defensive anchor of a dominant team. That's it. Him and Wilt swap places and he's probably on the same level as Nate Thurmond.

[Rico2016]

MJ's rings are right there with Bill Russell's. Bill Russell might have faced better teams tbh.

In what world is this a compliment? Quite clearly you're dogging on MJ's achievements by making this correlation.

[AlternativeAcc.]

In what world is this a compliment? Quite clearly you're dogging on MJ's achievements by making this correlation.

I think he's agreeing with you

Didn't this guy have a change of heart after Kobe's brutal death? He started posting logically IIRC... haven't been around enough to know for sure though.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Lebron has already lost the chance to surpass MJ since 2007 when he got swept by the Spurs in NBA Finals. MJ has a perfect 6/6 record in the NBA finals, this 100% winning percentage in NBA finals is a necessary condition for NBA GOAT. If a player loses once in an NBA Final series, hes automatically disqualified from GOAT conversation. Ever since that day, Lebron's ceiling was 2nd greatest player in NBA, even if he had won all the rest NBA Finals series.

Note: 100% winning percentage in NBA Finals is a necessary condition for GOAT but not sufficient condition. A player with a perfect finals record may not be close to GOAT discussion, ie. Pippen.

[SouBeachTalents]

Lebron has already lost the chance to surpass MJ since 2007 when he got swept by the Spurs in NBA Finals. MJ has a perfect 6/6 record in the NBA finals, this 100% winning percentage in NBA finals is a necessary condition for NBA GOAT. If a player loses once in an NBA Final series, hes automatically disqualified from GOAT conversation. Ever since that day, Lebron's ceiling was 2nd greatest player in NBA, even if he had won all the rest NBA Finals series.

Note: 100% winning percentage in NBA Finals is a necessary condition for GOAT but not sufficient condition. A player with a perfect finals record may not be close to GOAT discussion, ie. Pippen.
Lol, I love how you say this with such conviction like anybody besides your dumbass believes any of this :lol

[Kiddlovesnets]

Lol, I love how you say this with such conviction like anybody besides your dumbass believes any of this :lol

Weird, I am 100% sure that I aint the only one who believe this, in fact I wasnt even the first one who brought up this fact.

[3ball]

Lebron has already lost the chance to surpass MJ since 2007 when he got swept by the Spurs in NBA Finals. MJ has a perfect 6/6 record in the NBA finals, this 100% winning percentage in NBA finals is a necessary condition for NBA GOAT. If a player loses once in an NBA Final series, hes automatically disqualified from GOAT conversation. Ever since that day, Lebron's ceiling was 2nd greatest player in NBA, even if he had won all the rest NBA Finals series.

Note: 100% winning percentage in NBA Finals is a necessary condition for GOAT but not sufficient condition. A player with a perfect finals record may not be close to GOAT discussion, ie. Pippen.
Finals record is an indication of team ceilings - MJ provided teams with goat ceilings

But otherwise, Finals record means little.

MJ doesn't need 6/6 because 6 rings is enough... 6 rings in 15 seasons is the goat winning frequency of the modern era.. 6 rings as the best player is twice as much as anyone else in 3-pointer basketball/modern era (maybe you could argue Duncan has 4 "best player" rings.. still 2 short of goat-caliber)

[SouBeachTalents]

Weird, I am 100% sure that I aint the only one who believe this, in fact I wasnt even the first one who brought up this fact.
You literally believe it's worse for a player to make the Finals than to miss the playoffs

Yep, indefensibly retarded

[FKAri]

Lebron has already lost the chance to surpass MJ since 2007 when he got swept by the Spurs in NBA Finals. MJ has a perfect 6/6 record in the NBA finals, this 100% winning percentage in NBA finals is a necessary condition for NBA GOAT. If a player loses once in an NBA Final series, hes automatically disqualified from GOAT conversation. Ever since that day, Lebron's ceiling was 2nd greatest player in NBA, even if he had won all the rest NBA Finals series.

Note: 100% winning percentage in NBA Finals is a necessary condition for GOAT but not sufficient condition. A player with a perfect finals record may not be close to GOAT discussion, ie. Pippen.
What is this 6/6? MJ didn't even make the finals most of the time. '87 is especially embarrassing. Though '90 and '95 are also up there. Too many failures. Bunch of rigged rings in the 90s vs dogshit teams doesn't make up for getting ass blasted by actual good teams.

[Rico2016]

What is this 6/6? MJ didn't even make the finals most of the time. '87 is especially embarrassing. Though '90 and '95 are also up there. Too many failures. Bunch of rigged rings in the 90s vs dogshit teams doesn't make up for getting ass blasted by actual good teams.


His career is severley divided into 2 distinct categories: (1) With Pippen, and (2) Without Pippen. With Pippen he did great. Without...Well, we know. The matter of 1-9. Look at this:

True. And everyone will be scared to refute it because it's just factual information. Michael Jordan had a very divided career.

15 seasons i
6 with Pip, 5 without Pip
Playoff game wins:
6 seasons = 24 games (WITH)
5 seasons = 1 game (WITHOUT)

[3ball]

His career is severley divided into 2 distinct categories: (1) With Pippen, and (2) Without Pippen. With Pippen he did great. Without...Well, we know. The matter of 1-9. Look at this:

True. And everyone will be scared to refute it because it's just factual information. Michael Jordan had a very divided career.

15 seasons i
6 with Pip, 5 without Pip
Playoff game wins:
6 seasons = 24 games (WITH)
5 seasons = 1 game (WITHOUT)
Pippen averaged 9 on 40% in the 1989 ECF

Lebron never had a 2nd option that bad

Pippen didn't help MJ win from 1988-1990 - he COST mj rings in those years by sucking worse than any sidekick Lebron ever had

[FKAri]

Pippen averaged 9 on 40% in the 1989 ECF

Lebron never had a 2nd option that bad

Pippen didn't help MJ win from 1988-1990 - he COST mj rings in those years by sucking worse than any sidekick Lebron ever had

Unbelievable that Jordan ball reduced top 40 GOAT Pippen to 9 on 40%. I knew it was toxic but... wow. Where would MJ be without Nike and Stern?

[3ball]

Unbelievable that Jordan ball reduced top 40 GOAT Pippen to 9 on 40%. I knew it was toxic but... wow. Where would MJ be without Nike and Stern?
Pippen was a rookie or sophomore that year, but grew by leaps and bounds each year next to MJ's off-ball style.

Otoh, we saw Ingram, Jamison, Bosh, Love, and Hughes all crater alongside Lebron... So Lebron wouldn't win a single ring with Pippen...

Infact, Lebron needs an equal-scoring and usage partner in the years that he won rings, and a closer.... so Pippen would never work...

Lebron can't win by scoring 10-30 more than his 2nd option and 50% more usage like MJ did for every series of his career, and closing every single game - aka Lebron can't win by carrying the load like MJ did - he needs an equal scoring, usage and closing partner to win, not some stiff like Pippen who can't score or close

[Ainosterhaspie]

Eight reasons LeBron's better:

1. Never quit as the best player in the league...twice. Should count this as two, but I'll just use it as one.
2. LeBron dominates in a better era.
3. LeBron has won several playoff games and a series against 65+ win teams. Jordan never won a single playoff game against such a team.
4. LeBron took a team of scrubs to the finals at an age where Jordan was squeaking into the playoffs as a 8th seed with a losing record only to get summarily swept.
5. Size matters in basketball (and elsewhere). LeBron has Jordan beat there.
6. LeBron entered the league younger, started dominating younger and has dominated more seasons than Jordan even played.
7. LeBron has proven he can win with bad coaching and trash teammates. Jordan never managed that.
8. LeBron is a superior three point shooter and finisher at the rim (the two best ways to score) and a superior passer with better passing instincts, skill, vision, precision and touch making him an all around more diverse offensive weapon l.

[TheMan]

Eight reasons LeBron's better:

1. Never quit as the best player in the league...twice. Should count this as two, but I'll just use it as one.
2. LeBron dominates in a better era.
3. LeBron has won several playoff games and a series against 65+ win teams. Jordan never won a single playoff game against such a team.
4. LeBron took a team of scrubs to the finals at an age where Jordan was squeaking into the playoffs as a 8th seed with a losing record only to get summarily swept.
5. Size matters in basketball (and elsewhere). LeBron has Jordan beat there.
6. LeBron entered the league younger, started dominating younger and has dominated more seasons than Jordan even played.
7. LeBron has proven he can win with bad coaching and trash teammates. Jordan never managed that.
8. LeBron is a superior three point shooter and finisher at the rim (the two best ways to score) and a superior passer with better passing instincts, skill, vision, precision and touch making him an all around more diverse offensive weapon l.
I see that ISH is back to idiot troll posts/threads...

Some things never change.

[Manny98]

7. LeBron has proven he can win with bad coaching and trash teammates. Jordan never managed that.
8. LeBron is a superior three point shooter and finisher at the rim (the two best ways to score) and a superior passer with better passing instincts, skill, vision, precision and touch making him an all around more diverse offensive weapon l.
LeBron didn't win shit in his entire career without 2 other all stars

Yes he took a team of garbage cans to the finals in 07 but what does it matter if your getting swept in the finals, same in 09 he won 66 in the regular season but lost to a team led by Dwight Howard missing their starting point guard.

LeBron has underachieved so much in his career which you can't say the same for MJ. Once MJ got a decent cast he never lost ever.

And people always hype up Phil Jackson as this GOAT coach but what was he before MJ?

[superduper]

Bran stans need to scream it 20x a day every single day.

Jordan's game speaks for itself (minus 3ball, outlier).

[ronniec]

Who fxxking cares about Lebron James today??

[FireDavidKahn]

LeBron didn't win shit in his entire career without 2 other all stars

Yes he took a team of garbage cans to the finals in 07 but what does it matter if your getting swept in the finals, same in 09 he won 66 in the regular season but lost to a team led by Dwight Howard missing their starting point guard.

LeBron has underachieved so much in his career which you can't say the same for MJ. Once MJ got a decent cast he never lost ever.

And people always hype up Phil Jackson as this GOAT coach but what was he before MJ?

LBJ had the GOAT play off series in the 2016 Finals:oldlol:

LBJ's other "star" on the team averaged 8.5 ppg on 36.2%/26.3%/70.6%, 6.8 rpg and 1.3 apg in the Finals:roll:

[Ainosterhaspie]

I see that ISH is back to idiot troll posts/threads...

Some things never change.

How is it trolling? Or is your definigtion of trolling that someone disagrees with you? Maybe the little Madona jab at #5 is a minor troll after a legitimate point, but so are all the comments about LeBron's hair line. Who cares. Part of the draw of this site is you can have a little fun where other sites might crack down.

I guess #1 wasn't worded in dry rhetorical language. Perhaps this is the way to state it. We should acknowledge Jordan's decision not to play during some of his prime and near prime years as a blemish on his largely spotless career, and while there may have been reasonable explanations for those decisions, they nevertheless leave questions about whether he was capable of sustaining high level play and deep playoff runs for an extended time. The way his career actually played out suggests, or at the very least fails to demonstrate to the contrary, that he was not mentally and/or physically capable or willing to put up with the grind of more than three consecutive finals runs since he chose not to attempt to do so not once, but twice when presented with that opportunity.

The retirement while healthy and at the top of the game was an unprecedented action and he did it twice. LeBron on the other hand ground out eight consecutive finals appearances, and while that may not be dispositive, or even necessarily a particularly weighty factor in his favor, it is an area where he clearly, inarguably surpassed Jordan. It is not trolling to bring up a flaw in Jordan's resume.

#2 is admittedly subjective, but arguably true. Again, just because you don't agree doesn't make it trolling. Jordan's era of dominance occurred when legendary teams were on the decline and when the league was watered down by heavy expansion

#3 is inarguably true. So how can that be trolling?

#4 is inarguably true except perhaps the "scrubs" description, which only loons really dispute.

#5 is primarily truth with admitted minor trollery.

#6 is inarguably true.

#s 7 and 8 there is more room for argument, but they are not baseless assertions. Again you may choose to weigh their importance differently that I do, but that doesn't make it trolling.

[Manny98]

LBJ had the GOAT play off series in the 2016 Finals:oldlol:

LBJ's other "star" on the team averaged 8.5 ppg on 36.2%/26.3%/70.6%, 6.8 rpg and 1.3 apg in the Finals:roll:
Kevin Love was considered a star and the best power forward in the NBA when he joined the Cavs

[RRR3]

Kevin Love was considered a star and the best power forward in the NBA when he joined the Cavs

Wrong account manny

[Manny98]

Wrong account manny
Nope just saying it like it is

LeBron needed extra talent to make up for his weak brand of basketball. He had too team hop twice and form superteams to win his championships

He couldn't develop a team organically like other greats could.

[SpaceJam2]

LeBron didn't win shit in his entire career without 2 other all stars

Yes he took a team of garbage cans to the finals in 07 but what does it matter if your getting swept in the finals, same in 09 he won 66 in the regular season but lost to a team led by Dwight Howard missing their starting point guard.

LeBron has underachieved so much in his career which you can't say the same for MJ. Once MJ got a decent cast he never lost ever.

And people always hype up Phil Jackson as this GOAT coach but what was he before MJ?
Im Kobe is it you?

[Round Mound]

Lebron is a better play maker passer than Jordan but that's about it. Finishing ability and speed they are similar (suggest you watch athletic 80s Jordan finish to compare). Jordan was better at everything else (and now Lebron is really a poor rebounder relative to size, weight, leaping ability and strength), Jordan had the 2nd highest killer will in NBA history (Bird probably the 1st yet he wasn't very athletic or durable). Jordan a better ballhandler, mid range shooter, ft shooter, better 1 on 1 skills, better foot work, quicker footed, more agile, more graceful, higher leaping ability relative to size, larger hands etc

[Phoenix]

LeBron didn't win shit in his entire career without 2 other all stars

Yes he took a team of garbage cans to the finals in 07 but what does it matter if your getting swept in the finals, same in 09 he won 66 in the regular season but lost to a team led by Dwight Howard missing their starting point guard.

LeBron has underachieved so much in his career which you can't say the same for MJ. Once MJ got a decent cast he never lost ever.

And people always hype up Phil Jackson as this GOAT coach but what was he before MJ?

:biggums:

Ok who took over Manny's account?

[superduper]

:biggums:

Ok who took over Manny's account?

The truth.

[Phoenix]

The truth.

:cheers:

That timeout a few weeks ago did him some good. Too bad the other retard(s) is back in full force.

[TheMan]

Eight reasons LeBron's better.

1. Jordan's father was killed you idiot... conspiracy theories aside, he was really close to his father, and his dad was a huge baseball fan, MJ wanted to try out baseball, his FIRST LOVE in memory of his dad. Second time he retired, the Bulls FO broke that team up, go read you idiot. He wasn't going to stick around as the only Bulls major chip player while Pippen, Jackson and Rodman weren't even going to be offered a contract, especially considering MJ was in the twilight of his career. Who the hell wants to stick around for a rebuild? Not James, who went to the Lakers on the promise they'd build a title contender around him, got AD, a top 3 current NBA player and that wasn't enough for LBJ as he tried to get Kawhi to join in an attempt to stack the deck even further.

2. LeBron dominates a better era? If 3/9 is dominating, I don't know what to tell you...at least get to .500 on Finals runs, no? "Dominates" LMAO! And it's pretty easy to get nice stats in today's no defense, 3pt chucking league...

3. MJ has beaten more 50+ and 60+ win teams than LBJ, fact. The road to the Finals were harder for MJ, the Finals opponents are tougher for LBJ but that's easily explainable, LBJ feasted on a shit EC on his way to the Finals, once he got there, he faced a formidable opponent, meaning had he been in the West during his 8 Finals run, he wouldn't have sniffed the Finals 8 straight years...

4. He took a team full of scrubs to the Finals in 07 in a weak East where the Pistons were old and nowhere near their peak of 04 version and right before the Celtics Big 3 in 08, meanwhile MJ had cokeheads as teammates and facing one of the GOAT teams in Bird's Celtics and then facing the Bad Boys Pistons...Bron summarily got swept by one of the Spurs worst versions of their title teams...several teams out West would've beaten that 2007 Cavs teams if not the Spurs.

5. Troll points to you, sir.

6. Again, me and you have different opinions on what dominating means, according to your definition, MJ started dominating while the likes of Magic and Bird were in there prime (top 5 all time GOATs) since I take it that you mean dominating in terms of stats because LBJ didn't win a damn thing until almost 10 years into his career when he moved to Miami to play with another top 3-5 NBA player and Finals MVP in Wade along with a top PF in Bosh. MJ had to wait until Pippen and Grant started to pull their own weight...huge difference. Maybe MJ should've gone and joined Magic in 1988???

7. LeBron has never proven to be able to win with trash teammates and bad coaching, if Spoelstra is so terrible, why do the Heat currently have the third best record in the East? Give him a bit of talent and look! Also, Pat Riley is one of the best GMs in the business.

8. Aside from 3pt shooting, all that is your opinion. MJ is a much better mid range shooter, absolutely no doubt and not subjective, mid range shooting is still a thing, helped Kawhi win him last year's Finals MVP. MJ is a better finisher at the rim and dunker, GTFOH. LeBron looks to pass more, but he doesn't have better court vision than MJ, if MJ wanted too, he could've easily dropped dimes like he did when Doug Collins asked him to when he played PG in the tail end of the 88 season.

MJ is the consensus GOAT...

[TheMan]

:biggums:

Ok who took over Manny's account?
This lol

[Leviathon1121]

1. Jordan's father was killed you idiot... conspiracy theories aside, he was really close to his father, and his dad was a huge baseball fan, MJ wanted to try out baseball, his FIRST LOVE in memory of his dad. Second time he retired, the Bulls FO broke that team up, go read you idiot. He wasn't going to stick around as the only Bulls major chip player while Pippen, Jackson and Rodman weren't even going to be offered a contract, especially considering MJ was in the twilight of his career. Who the hell wants to stick around for a rebuild? Not James, who went to the Lakers on the promise they'd build a title contender around him, got AD, a top 3 current NBA player and that wasn't enough for LBJ as he tried to get Kawhi to join in an attempt to stack the deck even further.

2. LeBron dominates a better era? If 3/9 is dominating, I don't know what to tell you...at least get to .500 on Finals runs, no? "Dominates" LMAO! And it's pretty easy to get nice stats in today's no defense, 3pt chucking league...

3. MJ has beaten more 50+ and 60+ win teams than LBJ, fact. The road to the Finals were harder for MJ, the Finals opponents are tougher for LBJ but that's easily explainable, LBJ feasted on a shit EC on his way to the Finals, once he got there, he faced a formidable opponent, meaning had he been in the West during his 8 Finals run, he wouldn't have sniffed the Finals 8 straight years...

4. He took a team full of scrubs to the Finals in 07 in a weak East where the Pistons were old and nowhere near their peak of 04 version and right before the Celtics Big 3 in 08, meanwhile MJ had cokeheads as teammates and facing one of the GOAT teams in Bird's Celtics and then facing the Bad Boys Pistons...Bron summarily got swept by one of the Spurs worst versions of their title teams...several teams out West would've beaten that 2007 Cavs teams if not the Spurs.

5. Troll points to you, sir.

6. Again, me and you have different opinions on what dominating means, according to your definition, MJ started dominating while the likes of Magic and Bird were in there prime (top 5 all time GOATs) since I take it that you mean dominating in terms of stats because LBJ didn't win a damn thing until almost 10 years into his career when he moved to Miami to play with another top 3-5 NBA player and Finals MVP in Wade along with a top PF in Bosh. MJ had to wait until Pippen and Grant started to pull their own weight...huge difference. Maybe MJ should've gone and joined Magic in 1988???

7. LeBron has never proven to be able to win with trash teammates and bad coaching, if Spoelstra is so terrible, why do the Heat currently have the third best record in the East? Give him a bit of talent and look! Also, Pat Riley is one of the best GMs in the business.

8. Aside from 3pt shooting, all that is your opinion. MJ is a much better mid range shooter, absolutely no doubt and not subjective, mid range shooting is still a thing, helped Kawhi win him last year's Finals MVP. MJ is a better finisher at the rim and dunker, GTFOH. LeBron looks to pass more, but he doesn't have better court vision than MJ, if MJ wanted too, he could've easily dropped dimes like he did when Doug Collins asked him to when he played PG in the tail end of the 88 season.

MJ is the consensus GOAT...

Jordan being the overwhelming consensus GOAT has been killing them for years, and Lebron has done nothing to at all to change it.

[TheMan]

Jordan being the overwhelming consensus GOAT has been killing them for years, and Lebron has done nothing to at all to change it.

Exactly, and every damn poll shows MJ winning over 70% as the GOAT, LeBron is lucky to get 10%...if he ain't making inroads on that, no way in hell is he overtaking MJ in the twilight of his prime.

[ImKobe]

Nope just saying it like it is

LeBron needed extra talent to make up for his weak brand of basketball. He had too team hop twice and form superteams to win his championships

He couldn't develop a team organically like other greats could.

LeGOAT turns the worst team in the league into a Finals contender. 8 straight Finals with the rosters changing every single year, yet LeGOAT was always the constant who produced. His 2018 Finals run is more impressive than any of MJ's/Kobe's titles. 17th season LeGOAT would be the best or 2nd best player in ANY era, that's how great he is.

[3ball]

LeGOAT turns the worst team in the league into a Finals contender.

8 straight Finals with the rosters changing every single year, yet LeGOAT was always the constant who produced.



His 2018 Finals run is more impressive than any of MJ's/Kobe's titles. 17th season LeGOAT would be the best or 2nd best player in ANY era, that's how great he is.


^^^ lebron turning the worst team into a Finals contender is one of the biggest myths in sports and not supported by the facts

If true, Lebron's teams would've been Finals contenders every year of his career, but they weren't in 04', 05', 06', 08', and 19'..

And similar to Dwight Howard's weak cast, they were contenders in 07' and 09/10 due to weak conference, so naturally they made Finals every year once he had super-teams.. One can assume that Dwight would've had a similar Finals streak if he teamed up with Wade/Bosh

And his 2018 Finals run was 34/9/9 with 28.2 gamescore, compared to MJ's 37/7/7 with 29.0 gamescore in 1990 (MJ took the champs 7 games while lebron was beat by record amount).. MJ's win over #1 SRS Cavs in 1989 and subsequent conference finals run was also superior - those 89' Cavs > any Eastern opponent Lebron faced in 2018.

Carry on... I can tell ur shook by the passing of Goatbe but damn brah.. you've gone full wheels on us lol

And it's interesting that you bring up Lebron's changing rosters - the reality is that he made 8 straight Finals only because he got to reboot an aging cast in 2014 for a fresh new cast of prime superstars in 2015, which made him the preseason and pre-playoffs favorite b4 Kyrie injury

[Turbo Slayer]

aint nobody better than legoat :banana:

[eliteballer]

Are these reasons with or without Steroids?

[Rico2016]

Are these reasons with or without Steroids?

What is MJ without Pippen?

Carmello Anthony?