Cleveland Will Be Comically Bad Defensively.

[DonDadda59]

True or False? :confusedshrug:

[MP.Trey]

That's what I'm afraid of. Andy V is a good defender though, and TT is alright. LeBron is a good to great defender when he puts his mind to it and Kyrie/Dion get trashed for their defense all the time but both did show stretches of improvement last year. Consistency just needs to be there. Love, I'm not sure on, haven't watched enough Minny games to really know what we're getting into.

The Marion pickup really eased my worries though. One of the most versatile defenders in league history coming off the bench is a hell of a luxury to have.

[DonDadda59]

Mo they will be middle of the pack at worst.

That's not gonna be good enough against SA, just like it wasn't this past finals.


Love, I'm not sure on, haven't watched enough Minny games to really know what we're getting into.

I'll save you the suspense, he sucks.


The Marion pickup really eased my worries though. One of the most versatile defenders in league history coming off the bench is a hell of a luxury to have.

True, but he's 36.

[juju151111]

False and depends on the coach. All these guys can defend with effort except maybe love who lacks athleticism. If Blatt is a no nonsense coach defensive ly and benches players or spend a lot of time on it in practice they will be fine.

[fpliii]

LeBron hasn't played consistent regular season defense since 2011-12. This is his opportunity to put up or shut up with regards to DPOY.

[outbreak]

Someone's a bit of a retard aren't they?

They won't be the best defence of all time by they will be far from "Comically bad".

They have a few above average defenders and a couple of weaker defenders. Love isn't as bad as people make out either.

[DonDadda59]

Someone's a bit of a retard aren't they?

Probably the guy who doesn't know how true or false questions work. Take a bow. :applause:

[Nastradamus]

Nah, average or slightly above. Its actually a pretty strong defensive front line with James,Love and Varejao. Love isn't a rim protector, but he can cover ground and he's a dominant rebounder. Waiters was a pretty good defender in college, we'll see if they can get him to focus more energy on that end of the court.

They need a shot blocking backup C. I'd sign Stiemsma and Okafor if I were them. A defensive oriented backup PG would also be nice, but not sure what options are out there. Maybe Norris Cole

[El Gato Negro]

False, do people forget the cavs mad multiple years of top ten defense with mo and drew gooden in the line ups. Also never had a rim protector so nothing new there.

[HOoopCityJones]

False and depends on the coach. All these guys can defend with effort except maybe love who lacks athleticism. If Blatt is a no nonsense coach defensive ly and benches players or spend a lot of time on it in practice they will be fine.

There's nothing to suggest this though, Blatt is known for his Offensive philosophy , not Defense. He's basically the Euro D'antoni.

Lebron will miss Spo's commitment to Defense, I know that much. There's no way they'll have the same quality of Defensive schemes as Miami.

Whoever thinks so , must really think LBJ was their Defensive anchor too.

[MastaKilla]

Not true. Andy V & Love front court will be a better defensive combo than people think. Marion is still a good defender who will be coming off the bench which means he will have more energy to spend. Look at how awful Fisher was for the Lakers when logging big minutes compared to how he played with OKC while coming off the bench.

This team is scary good on paper, absolutely loaded with a good mix of hustle/defensive guys, great 3 point shooting, two of the best rebounding bigs in the game, arguable the best PF in the game who is coming off a season where he got more all star votes than Dwight Howard, had the 3rd highest PER in the league, was the 3rd best player in the league behind Durant & Lebron according the the "ESPN score" (link at bottom) , was 3rd in rebound, led all big men in assist.. And about that PER, it was an entire point away from Lebrons.. Is also and elite scorer

Irving; the USA team starting point guard, who has made the all star team 2/3 years he's been in the league, great combination of playmaking with elite scoring mixed in, can shoot from anywhere on the court, fearless in the 4th quarter and incredibly clutch..

They have Lebron James too

:eek: :eek:

http://espn.go.com/nba/seasonleaders/_/league/nba/sort/avgRebounds

[Smoke117]

That's what I'm afraid of. Andy V is a good defender though, and TT is alright. LeBron is a good to great defender when he puts his mind to it and Kyrie/Dion get trashed for their defense all the time but both did show stretches of improvement last year. Consistency just needs to be there. Love, I'm not sure on, haven't watched enough Minny games to really know what we're getting into.

The Marion pickup really eased my worries though. One of the most versatile defenders in league history coming off the bench is a hell of a luxury to have.

Marion had his least effective season defensively by far this past year. He's just an above average defender at his age and not a game changer anymore. Either way...they aren't going to be "comically bad". They were 19th out of 30 last year and adding Lebron and Marion is only going to make them better. How much better depends on how much effort Lebron gives and if Irving and Waiters make progress there, but they certainly aren't going to be worse. So yeah...false and frankly a stupid thread in the first place.

[El Gato Negro]

There's nothing to suggest this though, Blatt is known for his Offensive philosophy , not Defense. He's basically the Euro D'antoni.

Lebron will miss Spo's commitment to Defense, I know that much. There's no way they'll have the same quality of Defensive schemes as Miami.

Whoever thinks so , must really think LBJ was their Defensive anchor too.
:facepalm you know nothing about blatt other than what you hear on espn.

[Mr Exlax]

I think the Lakers under D'Antoni were comically bad. I don't see this Cavs team being anywhere near that bad.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

They'll be a good rebounding team (on the defensive side), but honestly, I don't think they'll be top 10 in something like DRtg. Too many gaping holes and LeBron's defense, as already pointed out, is far too inconsistent to lead by example (maybe he'll prove me wrong this season).

[PleezeBelieve]

70 wins aresholes

[MP.Trey]

70 wins aresholes
Are you gonna start stanning Bron again or are you still gonna stan Dion Waiters through thick and thin?

[HOoopCityJones]

:facepalm you know nothing about blatt other than what you hear on espn.

Only pu$$y ass Lebron stans watch ESPN. :oldlol:

Thus the circle jerk is never ending for them.

[Miller for 3]

Irving, Waiters, Miller, and Love are awful. Lebron was bad last year. Andy V will mist 40+ games. They are counting on Haywood and Alex Kirk to anchor the defense. Lots of 123-119 games incoming

[HOoopCityJones]

Irving's lack of commitment on D is severely being underestimated as well, for one he wont be handling the ball as much anymore , which could effect his defensive intensity considerably.

Ofc Cavs fans will swear everything will fit perfectly not considering the ball dominance between LBJ and Kyrie alone. Where the hell does Waiters and Love fit into that? spot up shooting?

[JT123]

Irving's lack of commitment on D is severely being underestimated as well, for one he wont be handling the ball as much anymore , which could effect his defensive intensity considerably.

Ofc Cavs fans will swear everything will fit perfectly not considering the ball dominance between LBJ and Kyrie alone. Where the hell does Waiters and Love fit into that? spot up shooting?
Sounds like wishful thinking to me. :oldlol:
Lebron's teammates don't complain about touches, and they never will. :sleeping

[DonDadda59]

Irving's lack of commitment on D is severely being underestimated as well, for one he wont be handling the ball as much anymore , which could effect his defensive intensity considerably.

Ofc Cavs fans will swear everything will fit perfectly not considering the ball dominance between LBJ and Kyrie alone. Where the hell does Waiters and Love fit into that? spot up shooting?

http://www.americanlegiontrilakespost911.com/Documents/BINGO.gif

The more I think of it, the more I think the pieces won't fit in Cleveland. Not all superteams work out. Let's not forget how much tension and drama there was in CLE's locker room last year. Chemistry on and off the court is much more pivotal than people may realize. And guys like Bron and Love don't seem like they're interested in playing the patience game. If it doesn't work out immediately in the first season, you could see one or both take their talents elsewhere.

But who knows, maybe ball dominant players like Kyrie and Love will thrive in their new spectator/spot up shooter roles.

[JT123]

http://www.americanlegiontrilakespost911.com/Documents/BINGO.gif

The more I think of it, the more I think the pieces won't fit in Cleveland. Not all superteams work out. Let's not forget how much tension and drama there was in CLE's locker room last year. Chemistry on and off the court is much more pivotal than people may realize. And guys like Bron and Love don't seem like they're interested in playing the patience game. If it doesn't work out immediately in the first season, you could see one or both take their talents elsewhere.

But who knows, maybe ball dominant players like Kyrie and Love will thrive in their new spectator/spot up shooter roles.
There is no way Lebron could leave without ruining his brand, so he aint going nowhere. And neither is Love. Players don't leave Lebron.

[red1]

70 wins aresholes
that t-shirt is comical. ohio against the world? :oldlol: fukk outta here

[DonDadda59]

There is no way Lebron could leave without ruining his brand...

In Cleveland... which he already did and then they welcomed him back with open arms after bbq'ing his jersey en masse. His brand wouldn't suffer much and if he went to a big market like LA or NY, it would probably expand.


Players don't leave Lebron.

No, he leaves them :crazysam:

[HOoopCityJones]

Sounds like wishful thinking to me. :oldlol:
Lebron's teammates don't complain about touches, and they never will. :sleeping

Only because he cupcakes them right up until the point he stabs them in the back. "They're all my brothers" all of this bullshit to make faggits like Bosh , Love, Wade and Andy feel like his besties , so they'd never bad mouth him to the media or public about something so insignificant like "touches", because "We're Brothers".

Are we forgetting the Panthro situation with Mo Williams? :roll:


Bron is 1,000 times worse than Kobe, at least Kobe lets you straight up if he dont **** with you.

[red1]

Only because he cupcakes them right up until the point he stabs them in the back. "They're all my brothers" all of this bullshit to make faggits like Bosh , Love, Wade and Andy feel like his besties , so they'd never bad mouth him to the media or public about something so insignificant like "touches", because "We're Brothers".

Are we forgetting the Panthro situation with Mo Williams? :roll:


Bron is 1,000 times worse than Kobe, at least Kobe lets you straight up if he dont **** with you.
lol at this idiot actually believing that shit

[chosen_one6]

LeBron can do a pick and roll with Andy V at the top of the key, with Love and Irving on the wings. Waiters will sit in the corner to keep the defenses honest. Tell me how you stop this.

[JUDGE WITNESS]

another mythologist shook :lol

[Kingwillball]

That's not gonna be good enough against SA, just like it wasn't this past finals.


I'll save you the suspense, he sucks.


True, but he's 36.

Didn't know the Cavs were the Heat ? Completely different team with a better Roster and younger core.

[Eric Cartman]

LeBron can do a pick and roll with Andy V at the top of the key, with Love and Irving on the wings. Waiters will sit in the corner to keep the defenses honest. Tell me how you stop this.

For starters, Andy V is old as dirt and can't stay healthy to save his life.

Also Kyrie is the worst catch and shoot pg in the league.

The Lebron + Love combination is sick tho :rockon:

[raprap]

This is lebrons chance to win the DPOY.

[El Gato Negro]

For starters, Andy V is old as dirt and can't stay healthy to save his life.

Also Kyrie is the worst catch and shoot pg in the league.

The Lebron + Love combination is sick tho :rockon:
Loves former teammate rubio says hi.

[JT123]

JT wasn't banned with dubeta/dragic/lebronxring? Why the hell not? He's just as stupid and dumber than dirt.
Reported. :sleeping

[El Gato Negro]

Only pu$$y ass Lebron stans watch ESPN. :oldlol:

Thus the circle jerk is never ending for them.
Based on your blatt assessment you have never seen a blatt coached team play basketball.

[hawkfan]

Sign 2 good defensive centers and problem solved.

[juju151111]

http://www.americanlegiontrilakespost911.com/Documents/BINGO.gif

The more I think of it, the more I think the pieces won't fit in Cleveland. Not all superteams work out. Let's not forget how much tension and drama there was in CLE's locker room last year. Chemistry on and off the court is much more pivotal than people may realize. And guys like Bron and Love don't seem like they're interested in playing the patience game. If it doesn't work out immediately in the first season, you could see one or both take their talents elsewhere.

But who knows, maybe ball dominant players like Kyrie and Love will thrive in their new spectator/spot up shooter roles.
I doubt Love and Irving become spot up shooters. Somebody has to be the 2nd scorer. I see LJ avg slightly less. This team is stacked offensively. Waiters wasn't even mention. The have great shooters al 37-40%

[bdreason]

I'm not sure their defense will be good enough to win a championship... but they are going to dominate the East.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Varejao is their best defensive player and hes not what he used to be when he was one of the best defenders in the world. Itll be tough times but they have no leader on defense or a coach that preaches elite defense like Mike Brown and Spo

[poido123]

Reported. :sleeping


Droid is right.

Jeff forgot to empty this piece of trash with dubeta/lebronxrings/dragic4life.

Reported

[NZStreetBaller]

cleveland is going to get murdered by OKC CLIPPERS and SPURS them teams are great offensively and not too shabby on D.

[qrich]

No, they won't be comically bad, as that is reserved for Mark Iavoroni or Mike D'Antoni led sides, but they will be mediocre, ranking around 17-23 throughout the association.

For one, Irving might as well wait at half court until the Cavs get possession back. Dude is Steve Nash bad, if not worse.

Waiters is J.R. Smith part duex, including the lack of defense.

LeBron is LeBron, but consistency will be key on D this year. Oh, and leadership.

Love, like Kyrie, might as well wait until the shot goes up.

AndyV will miss 20 games.

Marion is a good defender, but his minutes need to be monitored. Thompson is okay.

Who's left? Mike Miller? Delladova? James Jones? I mean, Dwight Powell might end up being their 2nd best defender :wtf:

[El Gato Negro]

No, they won't be comically bad, as that is reserved for Mark Iavoroni or Mike D'Antoni led sides, but they will be mediocre, ranking around 17-23 throughout the association.

For one, Irving might as well wait at half court until the Cavs get possession back. Dude is Steve Nash bad, if not worse.

Waiters is J.R. Smith part duex, including the lack of defense.

LeBron is LeBron, but consistency will be key on D this year. Oh, and leadership.

Love, like Kyrie, might as well wait until the shot goes up.

AndyV will miss 20 games.

Marion is a good defender, but his minutes need to be monitored. Thompson is okay.

Who's left? Mike Miller? Delladova? James Jones? I mean, Dwight Powell might end up being their 2nd best defender :wtf: so you think the cavs will be worse on defense this year with bran than they were last year without him? :facepalm also i dont think you have actual seen delly play defense this is somthing beal said this year.

SLAM: You also draw the other team

[Aidz]

Who does Love even have to guard? The NBA is dominated by wing players now. All you need is a good wing defender to take their main guy and a rim protector. Andy V can be a rim protector and LeBron, Marion or Dellavedova (hustle) can guard the wing.

List of guys Love will guard who can actually cause damage:
- Blake Griffin (WEST)
- Bosh
- Al Horford?

Like I said, NBA is dominated by wing players.

[The JKidd Kid]

That's what I'm afraid of. Andy V is a good defender though, and TT is alright. LeBron is a good to great defender when he puts his mind to it and Kyrie/Dion get trashed for their defense all the time but both did show stretches of improvement last year. Consistency just needs to be there. Love, I'm not sure on, haven't watched enough Minny games to really know what we're getting into.

The Marion pickup really eased my worries though. One of the most versatile defenders in league history coming off the bench is a hell of a luxury to have.

Actually no the Cavs 3 best bigs are some of the worst rim defenders in the league. I was reading this article that said that out of 76 players that played enough minutes to qualify on opponents FG% when they contested a shot, love and Varajao were at like 72 and 73 and TT was at like 68.

[El Gato Negro]

Delly i play defense dova http://youtu.be/v2FTJxDm86k starts at 1:40 :bowdown:

[DukeDelonte13]

Actually no the Cavs 3 best bigs are some of the worst rim defenders in the league. I was reading this article that said that out of 76 players that played enough minutes to qualify on opponents FG% when they contested a shot, love and Varajao were at like 72 and 73 and TT was at like 68.


TT is one of the best PF's at allowing the fewest shots at the rim though. Advanced defensive metrics suck. They don't account for things like bigs passing out of a post up, or opposing bigs not getting the ball because they can't establish position. Anybody that tells you TT is a sh*tty defender doesn't watch cavs games. He's decent. He's not an explosive shot blocker, but he knows what he's doing on the defensive end.

Blatt is not just an offensive specialist, he's knows the other side of the floor well. He does a lot of creative stuff on D.

[SwishSquared]

If the Clippers waive Radiluca or don't sign Udoh, I see Cleveland scooping up one of them. Could also see Okafor being picked up if/when he gets healthy, though he should have a few suitors.

Re: Thompson- aren't the Cavs wanting to include him in a deal to get a better C? I know he has the Rich Paul/LBJ connection but if they can find a deal, I don't think they'd hesitate to trade him. Then again it's more likely he gets overpaid by them next off-season lol.

[RidonKs]

it's a really versatile team defensively so it mostly depends on lineups and how much pressure the new coach puts on his young scoring guards to put in the effort.

irving
waiters
james
love
varajao

if that's the starting lineup, dellavedova in for waiters would be a solid defensive team. thompson in for love becomes even better.

i think ideally, love and waiters learn to play with the second unit to start the second quarter while james and irving are resting.

dellavedova
waiters
thompson
love
haywood

would be a very interesting lineup. i haven't seen haywood in years but i don't remember him being a particularly aware rim protector. but if he's improved and thompson can guard the opposing three, that lineup has spacing and offensive rebounding in spades. could be scary.

what they need is a backup 2/3 or a 3/4 who can defend, rebound, and shoot. somebody really young with a ton of potential who's come into training camp in amazing shape and blown everybody away. but guys like that those don't come cheap, no sirree

[StrongLurk]

I expect them to be around 11-15 in the league. The biggest problem will be if they can get their defense AND offense in sync fast enough for the playoffs. While it's rare the teams make it to the finals their first year together, I think the Cavs can do it with Lebron at the helm. However, I still don't think they will be ready to beat the Spurs, or possibly the Thunder as well.

[DukeDelonte13]

If the Clippers waive Radiluca or don't sign Udoh, I see Cleveland scooping up one of them. Could also see Okafor being picked up if/when he gets healthy, though he should have a few suitors.

Re: Thompson- aren't the Cavs wanting to include him in a deal to get a better C? I know he has the Rich Paul/LBJ connection but if they can find a deal, I don't think they'd hesitate to trade him. Then again it's more likely he gets overpaid by them next off-season lol.


i kinda doubt they move thompson. They have Haywood's expiring plus 3 non guaranteed deals they got from the jazz plus some extra picks i think they can use to make moves.

Thompson is the type of guy that every team needs, rebounder, defender, high character, etc. He's only 22/23. IMO he can become a better version of Andy V. when all is said and done. It took Andy a long time to get where he is now. Cavs fans forget that.

Cavs fans are sour on the guy because he's limited offensively and there are stupid rumors floating around that he's asking for ridiculous money. He's worth 8-10 million a year IMO.

[SwishSquared]

i kinda doubt they move thompson. They have Haywood's expiring plus 3 non guaranteed deals they got from the jazz plus some extra picks i think they can use to make moves.

Thompson is the type of guy that every team needs, rebounder, defender, high character, etc. He's only 22/23. IMO he can become a better version of Andy V. when all is said and done. It took Andy a long time to get where he is now. Cavs fans forget that.

Cavs fans are sour on the guy because he's limited offensively and there are stupid rumors floating around that he's asking for ridiculous money. He's worth 8-10 million a year IMO.
You're a little higher on Thompson than me. Andy V is bigger and did eventually develop into a good role player (which Thompson can achieve). I think that's a little rich honestly. The deal that Hickson got should be what he moves imo. I know the market's super-inflated, so that probs won't happen. I think as a third big, he's a nice piece, but not at $8-10M per year. I think Windhorst (or some other ESPN writer) reported that Cavs would probably like to avoid his RFA via trade. Although that's super unlikely.

[DukeDelonte13]

You're a little higher on Thompson than me. Andy V is bigger and did eventually develop into a good role player (which Thompson can achieve). I think that's a little rich honestly. The deal that Hickson got should be what he moves imo. I know the market's super-inflated, so that probs won't happen. I think as a third big, he's a nice piece, but not at $8-10M per year. I think Windhorst (or some other ESPN writer) reported that Cavs would probably like to avoid his RFA via trade. Although that's super unlikely.


TT is far more durable, and I don't think he's even missed a game in the past two seasons. Andy is taller, but TT is maybe only an inch shorter, but a hell of a lot stronger. I think he's better than 3rd big, IMO he really doesn't get a lot of credit for doing what he's done the past few seasons, TT ALWAYS drew the toughest big defensive assignment night in and night out, and had some monster games among some much more heralded front courts. His game is ugly, and IMO that causes people to devalue him.

[SwishSquared]

TT is far more durable, and I don't think he's even missed a game in the past two seasons. Andy is taller, but TT is maybe only an inch shorter, but a hell of a lot stronger. I think he's better than 3rd big, IMO he really doesn't get a lot of credit for doing what he's done the past few seasons, TT ALWAYS drew the toughest big defensive assignment night in and night out, and had some monster games among some much more heralded front courts. His game is ugly, and IMO that causes people to devalue him.
I'm not disputing TT's durability or Andy's lack of it- I agree with you there. I just think on a roster with Kevin Love there presumably for the long haul, I wouldn't want to pay TT too much. I'd also try to get a true rim-protecting starting C than have to start TT (which if you pay him $8-10M, he'd be a *really* expensive 3rd big). He's growing, although not as quickly or as well perhaps as he should have. His offensive game isn't as expanded as you'd hope from such a high pick, but not everybody is a scorer. The fact that his game is ugly might cause him to be devalued in some circles, but I don't think I'm underrating him. Is he worth a 60-100% premium to a guy like Birdman? No, I don't think he is. I think he's useful on a playoff team though. I think we just disagree on price, essentially.

The reason I brought up trading him is he can be used to match salary this year, whereas Haywood's got a fairly low cap hit this season. Haywood's contract is so valuable for next off-season that I would try to hold onto it.

[chips93]

dellavedova
waiters
thompson
love
haywood

would be a very interesting lineup. i haven't seen haywood in years but i don't remember him being a particularly aware rim protector. but if he's improved and thompson can guard the opposing three, that lineup has spacing and offensive rebounding in spades. could be scary

i like the idea of staggering love and waiters, or really just any 2 of our 4 clear cut best offensive players, but tristan cant play the 3. i dont think ive seen him og a single minute at SF yet in his career.

he has good quickness for a power forward, but it would take him a while to learn how to play defense out on the perimeter, thats if he even has the tools. not to mention his lack of a jump shot.

id like to see the cavs just go with a 3 big rotation of tristan/andy/love, with love always playing PF, andy always playing center, and tristan just filling in with either of them at center or power forward. and then lebron playing some power forward when we want to go small.

[DonDadda59]

3 games in against presumably at least 2 playoffs bound squads:

PPG allowed: 23rd out of 30 teams
DRTG: 25th out of 30 teams
Opponent FG%: 29th out of 30 teams
Opponent 3 FG%: 24th out of 30 teams

Is it still too early to say true? :confusedshrug:

[DukeDelonte13]

3 games in against presumably at least 2 playoffs bound squads:

PPG allowed: 23rd out of 30 teams
DRTG: 25th out of 30 teams
Opponent FG%: 29th out of 30 teams
Opponent 3 FG%: 24th out of 30 teams

Is it still too early to say true? :confusedshrug:


I think they'll hover around the middle of the pack defensively this year.

[DonDadda59]

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120509222936/icarly/images/3/3c/True.gif

[RRR3]

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120509222936/icarly/images/3/3c/True.gif
Damn called it. Their offense doesn't look good either but that will change most likely.