The NBA has never seen an offensive quartet as talented as the Mighty 4 in Cleveland

[PleezeBelieve]

LeBron
Love
Kylie
Waiters

All can shoot + pass + create at elite levels for their position. Garnett + Pierce + Allen + Rondo were the closest but Rondo was limited offensively, Garnett was in his mid 30s, and Allen was a spot up shooter at that point of his career.

Wow. How do you defend the Mighty 4?

Its impossible. And to think Love will be 26, Dion and Kyrie are just 22 years old. :eek:

[Cocaine80s]

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[J Shuttlesworth]

Future is looking pretty good for Cleveland :bowdown:

[Warfan]

So they'll get to the finals and get whooped by the Spurs because their defense is shit. Cant wait :applause:

[ZMonkey11]

LeBron
Love
Kylie
Waiters

All can shoot + pass + create at elite levels for their position. Garnett + Pierce + Allen + Rondo were the closest but Rondo was limited offensively, Garnett was in his mid 30s, and Allen was a spot up shooter at that point of his career.

Wow. How do you defend the Mighty 4?

Its impossible. And to think Love will be 26, Dion and Kyrie are just 22 years old. :eek:

Didn't know she played.

http://nex1.tv/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Kylie2.jpg

[J Shuttlesworth]

So they'll get to the finals and get whooped by the Spurs because their defense is shit. Cant wait :applause:
http://i.imgur.com/AiJKFOW.png

[Smoke117]

People need to stop adding Waiters as a "big four" like he's actually proven anything.

[red1]

waiters is nothing special and love is very good but still overrated

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Amare/Nash/Diaw/Matrix were way more talented offensively

[PleezeBelieve]

Amare/Nash/Diaw/Matrix were way more talented offensively
:roll:

[FKAri]

who the *** is Waiters?
or is that a plural?

[L.Kizzle]

Baylor
West
Wilt
Goodrich

[AnaheimLakers24]

bandwagon fans like fgt op are pathetic

[trabash]

Great offense wins games, great defense wins championships.

[CelticBalla32]

Jumping the gun on this... lol

Wilt Chamberlain
Jerry West
Elgin Baylor
Gail Goodrich

Larry Bird
Kevin McHale
Robert Parish
Dennis Johnson

Magic Johnson
James Worthy
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Byron Scott

Julius Erving
Moses Malone
Andrew Toney
Charles Barkley

Shaquille O'Neal
Kobe Bryant
Glen Rice
Travis Knight

http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/sptusnbaexperts/TravisKnight112912.jpg

[dr.hee]

Jumping the gun on this... lol

Wilt Chamberlain
Jerry West
Elgin Baylor
Gail Goodrich

Larry Bird
Kevin McHale
Robert Parish
Dennis Johnson

Magic Johnson
James Worthy
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Byron Scott

Julius Erving
Moses Malone
Andrew Toney
Charles Barkley

Shaquille O'Neal
Kobe Bryant
Glen Rice
Travis Knight

http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/sptusnbaexperts/TravisKnight112912.jpg

OP probably doesn't know a single player from your post.

[pauk]

jordan
pippen
rodman
kukoc

baylor
west
wilt
goodrich/hairston

magic
kareem
worthy
scott

bird
mchale
dennis
maxwell/parish/archibald/ainge

isiah
dumars
rodman
laimbeer/aguirre/dantley

kareem
oscar
dandridge
mcglocklin

moses
julius
toney
cheeks
(barkley)

jordan
pippen
grant
armstrong

russell
havlicek
jones
cousy/heinsohn/ramsey/sharman

shaq
penny
grant
scott/anderson

shaq
kobe
rice
jones

shaq
kobe
malone
payton

kobe
gasol
bynum
odom

kobe
dwight
gasol
nash/artest/odom

garnett
pierce
allen
rondo

hakeem
barkley
drexler
elie/johnson/willis

frazier
reed
debusschere
earl monroe

malone
stockton
jeff malone
hornacek

English
Thompson
Isel
Kiki

[L.Kizzle]

Or the highest scoring foursome.

English
Thompson
Isel
Kiki

[pauk]

Or the highest scoring foursome.

English
Thompson
Isel
Kiki

Oh right, forgot....

How bout those Nuggets in 1980 though:

Issel - 24 ppg
Thompson - 22 ppg
English - 21 ppg
McGinnis - 16 ppg
Wilkerson - 14 ppg
Boswell - 11 ppg
Roche - 11 ppg
Johnson - 10 ppg
Scott - 10 ppg
Roberts - 8 ppg
Glen - 7 ppg
(including other guys with 2-6 ppg)

Stacked who? Whats that? 150 ppg? Imagine if Kiki was there to that time......

:biggums:

[BoutPractice]

I think they will surprise defensively. Definitely not giving up 125 points (I know that's hyperbole, but still).

They will focus on defense because they're in win now mode. Blatt, LeBron, Matrix, Miller and possibly Allen will bring that professionalism and veteran mentality.

Focused LeBron is a defensive nightmare... Dion, Varejao, Tristan Thompson, and Matrix either already are or can be definite defensive pluses.

We've never even seen Kyrie try on defense (he's 22, at this age not many players care), so what tells you he can't do it? Besides if anyone is allowed to be bad on defense it's the PG anyway...

Contrary to common opinion, Love is not a huge defensive liability either (except at C, but they won't always play small ball.)

[k0kakw0rld]

Great offense wins games, great defense wins championships.
Of course y'all assuming the defense will be horrible. :facepalm

[SouBeachTalents]

jordan
pippen
rodman
kukoc

baylor
west
wilt
goodrich/hairston

magic
kareem
worthy
scott

bird
mchale
dennis
maxwell/parish/archibald/ainge

isiah
dumars
rodman
laimbeer/aguirre/dantley

kareem
oscar
dandridge
mcglocklin

moses
julius
toney
cheeks
(barkley)

jordan
pippen
grant
armstrong

russell
havlicek
jones
cousy/heinsohn/ramsey/sharman

shaq
penny
grant
scott/anderson

shaq
kobe
rice
jones

shaq
kobe
malone
payton

kobe
gasol
bynum
odom

kobe
dwight
gasol
nash/artest/odom

garnett
pierce
allen
rondo

hakeem
barkley
drexler
elie/johnson/willis

frazier
reed
debusschere
earl monroe

malone
stockton
jeff malone
hornacek

English
Thompson
Isel
Kiki

Gotta love Rodman making two of these lists :roll:

[BoutPractice]

Of course y'all assuming the defense will be horrible. :facepalm
Exactly.

You underestimate how much defense is simply about effort level and disciplined coaching.

If your players are bums athletically, you won't make the top 10 (but you won't be among the worst either). If they're young and even reasonably athletic, you should be able to make it happen.

Conversely, the offense might take longer to gel than you'd expect, and the scoring be less superlative.

[ImKobe]

Didn't know she played.

http://nex1.tv/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Kylie2.jpg

Prime Kylie was stacked

[wally_world]

Nash
JJ
Matrix
STAT

[PleezeBelieve]

jordan
pippen
rodman
kukoc

baylor
west
wilt
goodrich/hairston

magic
kareem
worthy
scott

bird
mchale
dennis
maxwell/parish/archibald/ainge

isiah
dumars
rodman
laimbeer/aguirre/dantley

kareem
oscar
dandridge
mcglocklin

moses
julius
toney
cheeks
(barkley)

jordan
pippen
grant
armstrong

russell
havlicek
jones
cousy/heinsohn/ramsey/sharman

shaq
penny
grant
scott/anderson

shaq
kobe
rice
jones

shaq
kobe
malone
payton

kobe
gasol
bynum
odom

kobe
dwight
gasol
nash/artest/odom

garnett
pierce
allen
rondo

hakeem
barkley
drexler
elie/johnson/willis

frazier
reed
debusschere
earl monroe

malone
stockton
jeff malone
hornacek

English
Thompson
Isel
Kiki
LeBron + Kyrie + Dion alone supply what many on this list are lacking... and that's unguardable 1 on 1 skillsets. Many of those groups played great together, but make no mistake, what the Cavs offer is complete dominance from multiple points on the floor.

[dr.hee]

LeBron + Kyrie + Dion alone supply what many on this list are lacking... and that's unguardable 1 on 1 skillsets. Many of those groups played great together, but make no mistake, what the Cavs offer is complete dominance from multiple points on the floor.

:roll:

[Nash]

Lebron > Pierce
Love < Garnett
Irving > Rondo
Waiters > Allen

[BoutPractice]

Waiters > Allen?

Also, why post this under Nash? It's not like you're fooling anyone by this point.

[KG215]

People need to stop adding Waiters as a "big four" like he's actually proven anything.
No one else is adding him. It's just PB who's got a creepy stalker-like obsession with Waiters.

[DukeDelonte13]

No one else is adding him. It's just PB who's got a creepy stalker-like obsession with Waiters.


I add him, as well as plenty of other cavs fans. Waiters is very good and extremely underrated. He has an elite first step and is one the league's best young SG's. He also happened to shoot spot up 3's at 47% last year on over 100 attempts.

[boozehound]

and this is why OP is full retard.

[PleezeBelieve]

and this is why OP is full retard.
Back to being Cavs fans b*tch. You're welcome.

When you have cap space, you add Jennings and J. Smith. :roll:

We add LeBron, Love, Marion, Miller, Jones & re'sign Kyrie. :bowdown:

[JuicyJay78]

Waiters > Allen

:biggums:

[beastee]

Really?

Lebron
Wade
Bosh
Allen

That is pretty Impressive and won 2/4.

[CelticBalla32]

Lebron > Pierce
Love < Garnett
Irving > Rondo
Waiters > Allen

Waiters better than Ray Allen lol stop now please.

Rondo is better than Kyrie. Kyrie is a better scorer, Rondo is better at literally every other facet of the game.

[SouBeachTalents]

Really?

Lebron
Wade
Bosh
Allen

That is pretty Impressive and won 2/4.

Allen was only on the Heat for 2 years

[Sambacher]

I'm curious to see how Kyrie and LeBron mesh. LeBron has been a point forward for like his whole career and Kyrie is a pretty ball dominant point guard. And correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Kyrie pretty bad off of catch and shoots, as well as just playing off ball in general? I didn't watch much at all of him last year other than a couple times the cavs played the c's. I remember reading some statistics somewhere that said that though, could be totally wrong however

[CeltsGarlic]

http://i.imgur.com/AiJKFOW.png

Especially talkin shit about ray!

[CeltsGarlic]

I'm curious to see how Kyrie and LeBron mesh. LeBron has been a point forward for like his whole career and Kyrie is a pretty ball dominant point guard. And correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Kyrie pretty bad off of catch and shoots, as well as just playing off ball in general? I didn't watch much at all of him last year other than a couple times the cavs played the c's. I remember reading some statistics somewhere that said that though, could be totally wrong however

Yep Kyrie is pretty bad at catch n shoot, but mostly because he wasnt asked to do it much and I think he does not have the right technique. In europe (and Blatt is a coach from Eu ball) this is one of the most important aspects and I predict he will increase those numbers both % wise and rate of it.

[chips93]

Waiters > Allen?

Also, why post this under Nash? It's not like you're fooling anyone by this point.

who is his alt? that dragic dude?

[chips93]

I'm curious to see how Kyrie and LeBron mesh. LeBron has been a point forward for like his whole career and Kyrie is a pretty ball dominant point guard. And correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Kyrie pretty bad off of catch and shoots, as well as just playing off ball in general? I didn't watch much at all of him last year other than a couple times the cavs played the c's. I remember reading some statistics somewhere that said that though, could be totally wrong however

kyrie was actually much improved off the ball last year

the cavs went with a 3 guard lineup a decent amount, and he was pretty good moving without the ball

kyrie is a great shooter, so im sure he'll learn to be a better catch and shoot guy, since its much easier than shooting off the dribble, and he can spend the whole summer working on it, since he knows he'll need it this year with bron.

[dr.hee]

Lebron > Pierce
Love < Garnett
Irving > Rondo
Waiters > Allen

At what? Giving you an erection?

[KG215]

I add him, as well as plenty of other cavs fans. Waiters is very good and extremely underrated. He has an elite first step and is one the league's best young SG's. He also happened to shoot spot up 3's at 47% last year on over 100 attempts.
And until Waiters proves/shows he can play at or near an All-Star level, you're as delusional as the OP is about him being good enough to be considered a legit part of a "Big" anything. It wouldn't surprise me if he takes that step this season, but until he does why force it?

And, to be honest, PB really doesn't give a shit about the rest of the Cavs "Big 4". He's just looking for a way to include Waiters in that group. A group that consists of three players whose level he's not even close to being on right now. Well, I guess you could say he's not far from being on Kyrie's level, but still, he's got some work to do.

[oarabbus]

At what? Giving you an erection?

:roll:

[SOD 21]

Is Cleveland's top four players referenced by the original poster even better than Oklahoma City's top four players with KD, RW, Ibaka and Jackson?

Those foursomes are pretty equal. The combined player efficiency rating for Cleveland's top four players was 22.6 last season compared to 22.4 for Oklahoma City's quartet.

[DukeDelonte13]

And until Waiters proves/shows he can play at or near an All-Star level, you're as delusional as the OP is about him being good enough to be considered a legit part of a "Big" anything. It wouldn't surprise me if he takes that step this season, but until he does why force it?

And, to be honest, PB really doesn't give a shit about the rest of the Cavs "Big 4". He's just looking for a way to include Waiters in that group. A group that consists of three players whose level he's not even close to being on right now. Well, I guess you could say he's not far from being on Kyrie's level, but still, he's got some work to do.


why don't you watch the tape when Kyrie was out with an injury last season and Dion was just let loose. He consistently delivered.

There are plenty of examples of Dion lighting it up.

You are the delusional one if you think Dion Waiters can't play at or near all-star level. He's proven it, you just haven't taken notice. The kid many times over the past two seasons acted as the focal point of the team's offense, and still managed to put up big numbers.


People just wanna stand by their draft proclamations of "BUST" because he was a surprise pick. Let it go.

[KG215]

why don't you watch the tape when Kyrie was out with an injury last season and Dion was just let loose. He consistently delivered.

There are plenty of examples of Dion lighting it up.

You are the delusional one if you think Dion Waiters can't play at or near all-star level. He's proven it, you just haven't taken notice. The kid many times over the past two seasons acted as the focal point of the team's offense, and still managed to put up big numbers.


People just wanna stand by their draft proclamations of "BUST" because he was a surprise pick. Let it go.
I've paid attention to Waiters and, no, he hasn't really played at an All-Star level at this point in his career. He very well may develop into a legit "Big 4" member this year, but to rush and tab him as such right now is still premature. I've never been one to rush to label him a bust or hate on Cleveland for picking him where they did. I really didn't have a problem with the pick.

Can I throw in Reggie Jackson with KD, Russ, and Ibaka so I can say OKC has a "Big 4"? Because right now I'm not sure there's much difference between the two as players. Waiters has a higher ceiling, but right now there isn't much of a difference between the two as players in my opinion.

[Legends66NBA7]

Is Dion Waiters a future all-star ? Because it can't be a Big 4 if he's not going to be that potent or get to that level. Highly doubt he will be.

[PleezeBelieve]

I've paid attention to Waiters and, no, he hasn't really played at an All-Star level at this point in his career. He very well may develop into a legit "Big 4" member this year, but to rush and tab him as such right now is still premature. I've never been one to rush to label him a bust or hate on Cleveland for picking him where they did. I really didn't have a problem with the pick.

Can I throw in Reggie Jackson with KD, Russ, and Ibaka so I can say OKC has a "Big 4"? Because right now I'm not sure there's much difference between the two as players. Waiters has a higher ceiling, but right now there isn't much of a difference between the two as players in my opinion.
Reggie Jackson??? :roll:

Dion was better as rookie than Jackson has ever been and he's 1.5 years younger.

Dion better shooter, defender, player... fact

Do you people even do research before you post?

[KG215]

Reggie Jackson??? :roll:

Dion was better as rookie than Jackson has ever been and he's 1.5 years younger.

Dion better shooter, defender, player... fact

Do you people even do research before you post?
Apparently you don't.

[RedBlackAttack]

Waiters stays underrated by many. That's good though. I like it better that way. Is he all the way "there" yet? No, but not many guys are at 22. His potential is pretty scary. And, people will begin to recognize it this year, because they'll actually be watching him consistently.

[PleezeBelieve]

Apparently you don't.
Waiters career arc has more in common with Westbrook than Reggie freaking Jackson. :roll:

Back up you insane post... I dare you

You a slow one. Always on the wrong side of history, chum.

[KG215]

Waiters stays underrated by many. That's good though. I like it better that way. Is he all the way "there" yet? No, but not many guys are at 22. His potential is pretty scary. And, people will begin to recognize it this year, because they'll actually be watching him consistently.
I'm not underrating Waiters. What has he done to warrant being considered a member of a "Big 4" at this point in his career?

[KG215]

Waiters career arc has more in common with Westbrook than Reggie freaking Jackson. :roll:

Back up you insane post... I dare you

You a slow one. Always on the wrong side of history, chum.
Funny coming from one of the worst posters on ISH. Again, I've already said I like Waiters' game and his potential. He obviously has more potential than Reggie Jackson. But based on last year they aren't that far apart as players and OKC fans aren't claiming they've got a "Big 4".

[navy]

Yall acting like Dion aint getting traded when he's mad at his 3 shot attempts a game.

[Legends66NBA7]

I'm not underrating Waiters. What has he done to warrant being considered a member of a "Big 4" at this point in his career?

He hasn't. Nothing suggests it will, unless he gels well with LeBron.

[kamil]

I hope they lose. LeBron* does not deserve accolades through shortcuts.

[Meticode]

I'm not underrating Waiters. What has he done to warrant being considered a member of a "Big 4" at this point in his career?
Same then Rondo had done.

[KG215]

Same then Rondo had done.
I never really considered Rondo part of a "Big 4" until, at the very earliest, 2010. Maybe 2009 because I recall him being pretty good in the 2009 playoffs, but that may just have been a numbers spike due to Garnett being out.

[RedBlackAttack]

I'm not underrating Waiters. What has he done to warrant being considered a member of a "Big 4" at this point in his career?
I didn't say that you specifically were underrating Waiters. In fact, I agreed with the general "wait and see" mantra you've been repeating in regards to him. My post was more targeting the posters who laugh at the idea of Waiters eventually being that kind of player... and also just a general misunderstanding about Waiters' game that I've noticed from a lot of fans of other teams over the years.

During the second half of the season last year, I remember seeing a lot of surprised fans of other teams in game threads for whoever we were playing that particular night. Like, "wow... didn't know Waiters was this good."

And I still think there is a pretty large group of people who still don't know how good he already is and how good he could be if he ever puts it all together. I'm not saying you're one of them.


There were large stretches of games last year where Dion just looked flat-out unstoppable offensively. He still lacks the consistency, as do most young talented players, but I do believe he's a good deal better than most realize. To answer your question, no, I don't think he's a part of a "Big 4" at this stage, but there's no doubt in my mind that he could eventually get there... possibly even this coming season if things break the right way for him and the chemistry is there.

Waiters' catch-and-shoot numbers are WAY better than even I realized.

[I<3NBA]

waiters? :lol

[PleezeBelieve]

No LeBron? No Kyrie?

No problem thanks to Dion and Love.

How do you stop the Big 4?

[Nash]

No LeBron? No Kyrie?

No problem thanks to Dion and Love.

How do you stop the Big 4?
I BELIEVE!!

[chazzy]

I BELIEVE!!
cringe

[PleezeBelieve]

I BELIEVE!!
Thanks for the props

[swagga]

magic-kareem-worthy-wilkes-mcadoo-scott absolutely shits on anything this league seen from a firepower pov. Ridiculous. The greatest show on earth and the most entertaining team :applause:

[JellyBean]

magic-kareem-worthy-wilkes-mcadoo-scott absolutely shits on anything this league seen from a firepower pov. Ridiculous. The greatest show on earth and the most entertaining team :applause:

Thank you!!:cheers:

[PleezeBelieve]

magic-kareem-worthy-wilkes-mcadoo-scott absolutely shits on anything this league seen from a firepower pov. Ridiculous. The greatest show on earth and the most entertaining team :applause:
Ahhh no.

Anyway that's 6 players

[dreamwarrior]

Their chemistry is impressive, I'll admit. But they play at a snail's pace.

[Dro]

Jumping the gun on this... lol

Wilt Chamberlain
Jerry West
Elgin Baylor
Gail Goodrich

Larry Bird
Kevin McHale
Robert Parish
Dennis Johnson

Magic Johnson
James Worthy
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Byron Scott

Julius Erving
Moses Malone
Andrew Toney
Charles Barkley

Shaquille O'Neal
Kobe Bryant
Glen Rice
Travis Knight

http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/sptusnbaexperts/TravisKnight112912.jpg
:applause:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Pauk is fvcking crazy

:roll: :roll:

[pauk]

Pauk is fvcking crazy

:roll: :roll:

Did i miss something? Not sure what you are referring to.... but just in case, only you are "fvcking crazy" if you think "The NBA has never seen an offensive quartet as talented as the Mighty 4 in Cleveland".

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Nope. Not even close. Cavs are unbeatable. 4-0 in the preseason

[DukeDelonte13]

i hope they play at full strength this friday.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

i hope they play at full strength this friday.
You going?

[LAZERUSS]

Baylor
West
Wilt
Goodrich

Unfortunately, this never really occurred.

Goodrich played two games with a broken down Baylor in the 70-71 regular season (Baylor played two games all season, including the playoffs), and nine games with a 37 year old Elgin at the beginning of the 71-72 season. Baylor "retired" after that ninth game...and the rest was history. That Laker team immediately won 33 straight games, en route to a 69-13 record (they were 6-3 when Elgin hung them up), and a dominating world title.

You are certainly not one of them, but the "Wilt-bashers" NEVER bring up the fact that not only was Chamberlain "traded" to the Lakers for three players before the start of the '68-69 season, but they also lost Goodrich in the expansion draft, as well. Chamberlain essentially replaced 42 ppg from the 67-68 Lakers in the 68-69 season.

[LAZERUSS]

The early 80's Lakers had a near-prime Kareem, as well as Jamaal Wilkes, Norm Nixon, and of course, Magic. Probably the greatest offensive quartet of all-time.

The Sixers of the late 60's had a prime Chamberlain, Hal Greer, Chet Walker, and then Billy Cunningham off the bench.

[tpols]

Waiters is dirty.. but I feel like he wants a role more than catch and shoot.. Unfortunately he isn't a good enough ball handler or scorer to command the ball much over lebron Kyrie or love.. and that might cause chemistry problems. Cavs will still be in the finals regardles, too much talent.

[LAZERUSS]

Baylor
West
Wilt
Goodrich

Continuing...

Goodrich and Baylor played a total of 11 games together, and Baylor wasn't worth a shot in any of them.

But not only that, in their four seasons together, the West-Baylor-Wilt trio played exactly one relatively full and healthy season together. And even in that one season, Baylor completely puked all over the floor in that post-season.

Chamberlain shredded his knee in the ninth game of the 69-70 season, and was nowhere near 100% in the post-season (and again, Baylor was just a "third-wheel" in that playoff run.) And then in the 70-71 season, Baylor played two early season games, and that was it. Furthermore, West was injured later in that season, and he too, missed the entire post-season. And as I mentioned before, a 37 year old Baylor "retired" after game #9 of the 71-72 season, (and again, the Lakers then just annihilated the league after that.)

So when Bill Simmons brings up the HOF players that Chamberlain played with, these are just some of the facts that he leaves out.

[DukeDelonte13]

Waiters is dirty.. but I feel like he wants a role more than catch and shoot.. Unfortunately he isn't a good enough ball handler or scorer to command the ball much over lebron Kyrie or love.. and that might cause chemistry problems. Cavs will still be in the finals regardles, too much talent.


he's been handling the ball a fair amount in the preseason. He isn't being used for just catch and shoots, although when he's out there with the other 3 stars that's pretty much what's he gonna do. He'll probably be first starter to leave the game and the first to come back in so he plays a big dose of minutes with the second unit.

Blatt addressed this and said something along the lines of that he knows what Waiters' game is and he is going to play him to his strengths as much as he can.