Wall Vs Lillard Vs Irving

[Jlamb47]

Out of these 3 who will have the better season in 2014- 2015?

[Encre92]

Goran Dragic > All three.

But Lillard > Wall >>>>>>>>>>> Irving.

[JohnFreeman]

Wall
Irving
Lillard

[Vienceslav]

Well, Irving gets to play with Bron and Love and make the finals so he has that going for him.
Individually speaking, I think Wall will have a great year.

[Jlamb47]

Goran Dragic > All three.

But Lillard > Wall >>>>>>>>>>> Irving.

Irving outplayed Goran when USA played solvenia and Goran isnt better then either 3

He finally peaking at age 28?? i think

these 3 young guns can still break out

[robert de niro]

Irving outplayed Goran when USA played solvenia and Goran isnt better then either 3

He finally peaking at age 28?? i think

these 3 young guns can still break out
even goran's own brother outplayed him :oldlol:

[Jlamb47]

even goran's own brother outplayed him :oldlol:

Lol he did, he had more points and was more efficient, Goran was like 3-13 or some sh1t

[Demitri98]

Top 10 PG next year
1. Westbrook
2. Rose
3. CP3
4. Lillard
5. Curry
6. Dragic
7. Wall
8. Kyrie
9. Rondo
10. toss up

[UK2K]

Top 10 PG next year
1. Westbrook
2. Rose
3. CP3
4. Lillard
5. Curry
6. Dragic
7. Wall
8. Kyrie
9. Rondo
10. toss up
What was Lillards FG% last season?

I'd take curry and wall and dragic and rondo over him

[Jlamb47]

What was Lillards FG% last season?

I'd take curry and wall and dragic and rondo over him

Westbrook
CP3
Curry
Rose
Irving - Lebron addition
Wall
Lillard
D Will
Parker
Lowry
Rondo
Dragic

[alexd]

Goran Dragic > All three.

But Lillard > Wall >>>>>>>>>>> Irving.
Wall> lillard

[Duggrr]

Wall
Lillard
Irving

[rhowen4]

Irving
Lillard
Wall

[noob cake]

Lillard (24) - 18.6 PER
John Wall (24 in 1 month) - 19.6 PER
Irving (22) - 20.1 PER

GTFO. Lillard is the oldest and least efficient player.

[Jlamb47]

Lillard (24) - 18.6 PER
John Wall (24 in 1 month) - 19.6 PER
Irving (22) - 20.1 PER

GTFO. Lillard is the oldest and least efficient player.

Irving havnt touched the playoff, but can creat his own shot the best..and best ball handling
Wall wasnt that great in the playoffs and lacks shooting but the best defender and playmaker out the bunch
Lillard SNAPPED in the playoffs this -past post season putting up some crazy numbes and coming clutch. 22.9 PPG 5.1 RPG 6.5 APG 439FG% is pretty damn good for first time playoff in the deep WEST

[El Gato Negro]

I would like to say wall here but anyone paying attention to team usa basketball this summer should know which of these three is looking good.( hint only one left standing)

[noob cake]

Irving havnt touched the playoff, but can creat his own shot the best..and best ball handling
Wall wasnt that great in the playoffs and lacks shooting but the best defender and playmaker out the bunch
Lillard SNAPPED in the playoffs this -past post season putting up some crazy numbes and coming clutch. 22.9 PPG 5.1 RPG 6.5 APG 439FG% is pretty damn good for first time playoff in the deep WEST

Do you understand the concept of team basketball?

Lillard has by far the best team.

Wall being the best playmaker is questionable. Irving has outplayed Wall in all aspect of basketball for Team USA, especially in terms of running the team and play making. Assist record keeping is very arbitrary and heavily influenced by the stadium statistician, especially the home team. It is a wonder how Chris Paul averaged most assists passing to scrubs on the Hornets than lobbing to Griffin and DeAndre.... Oh wait, we have the answer: it is a well known fact that Chris Paul's NOH days assist numbers are heavily inflated.

Irving plays for perhaps the most dysfunctional organization in the NBA. It is a good thing this year that Irving finally get some good teammate to play with and coach to play for.

Regardless, Wall is a solid prospect who clearly is on the same level as Irving. Lillard seriously does not belong in any conversation for the best young point guard in the league.

[Myth]

Do you understand the concept of team basketball?

Lillard has by far the best team.

.

Do you understand the concept of reading? In the post you quoted, he discussed Lillard's INDIVIDUAL accomplishments in the playoffs, not how well the team diid.

[Jlamb47]

Do you understand the concept of team basketball?

Lillard has by far the best team.

Wall being the best playmaker is questionable. Irving has outplayed Wall in all aspect of basketball for Team USA, especially in terms of running the team and play making. Assist record keeping is very arbitrary and heavily influenced by the stadium statistician, especially the home team. It is a wonder how Chris Paul averaged most assists passing to scrubs on the Hornets than lobbing to Griffin and DeAndre.... Oh wait, we have the answer: it is a well known fact that Chris Paul's NOH days assist numbers are heavily inflated.

Irving plays for perhaps the most dysfunctional organization in the NBA. It is a good thing this year that Irving finally get some good teammate to play with and coach to play for.

Regardless, Wall is a solid prospect who clearly is on the same level as Irving. Lillard seriously does not belong in any conversation for the best young point guard in the league.


Well if i was talking about teams your post would make sense but too bad im speaking individual play.

Lillard was in the west this year beasting... Dude was Portlands main playmaker and was creating his own shots. He got ice in his veins man...those numbers dont lie and it was against the Rockets and Spurs and he was sh1tty against spurs
If we only included the rockets series he was incredible

[noob cake]

Do you understand the concept of reading? In the post you quoted, he discussed Lillard's INDIVIDUAL accomplishments in the playoffs, not how well the team diid.

It must take a genius connect the dots between team performance and individual performance.

Hitting fluke shots is not indicative of individual performance.

[Jlamb47]

It must take a genius connect the dots between team performance and individual performance.

Hitting fluke shots is not indicative of individual performance.

That shot was drawn up for Lillard. THey wasnt putting the ball in no one elses hand...thats a great individual shot

[Shade8780]

Wall
Lillard
Irving

[imdaman99]

Lillard (24) - 18.6 PER
John Wall (24 in 1 month) - 19.6 PER
Irving (22) - 20.1 PER

GTFO. Lillard is the oldest and least efficient player.
Kyrie is playing with bran now, that is going to stunt his growth.

We will watch him turn into a good spot up shooter, Chalmers on steroids. Accept it :cheers:

I got :

Wall
Lillard
Irving

I wasn't really impressed by Wall in the playoffs, but it was his 1st time. Lillard was very impressive, but he has to build on that quickly since he is the oldest of the 3.

[Myth]

It must take a genius connect the dots between team performance and individual performance.

Hitting fluke shots is not indicative of individual performance.

Even if his shot just happened to be a fluke, he had a great series otherwise too. You just seem like a bitter Rockets fan right now with pinning Lillard's playoff performance as just a fluke shot.

[imdaman99]

Even if his shot just happened to be a fluke, he had a great series otherwise too. You just seem like a bitter Rockets fan right now with pinning Lillard's playoff performance as just a fluke shot.
He's a bitter Kyrie stan upset that everyone has hailed other PGs over his favorite player.

I remember just last year he was talking about how Kyrie is already better than Westbrook :roll:

Lillard is already more clutch, and makes players on his team better. Can't say the same about Kyrie :cheers:

[SuperPippen]

Dragic is clearly better than all of three of the these guys, at least for the moment.

Wall has the highest potential, and has the best point guard skills, so I would take him over the other two. Lillard vs. Irving is extremly close, and basically a wash-up. I can't make a definitive decision either way.

[inclinerator]

the way i see it, irving is the most skilled wall most potential, lillard is a chucker

[RedBlackAttack]

Irving plays for perhaps the most dysfunctional organization in the NBA.

How could you possibly use present tense when making this proclamation? :oldlol:

Only the Cavs could be in the midst of arguably the greatest offseason in NBA history and still get zero credit for organizational acumen. Irving is actually extremely lucky he landed where he did, being that he will likely be competing for a championship in his fourth season and at just 22 without having to jump ship.

Let's stop with the "Cavs are the worst, most dysfunctional organization" nonsense now, shall we. I think it is officially time to put that to bed.

[sammichoffate]

Conley and Ty Lawson :pimp:

[SuperPippen]

How could you possibly use present tense when making this proclamation? :oldlol:

Only the Cavs could be in the midst of arguably the greatest offseason in NBA history and still get zero credit for organizational acumen. Irving is actually extremely lucky he landed where he did, being that he will likely be competing for a championship in his fourth season and at just 22 without having to jump ship.

Let's stop with the "Cavs are the worst organization" nonsense now, shall we. I think it is officially time to put that to bed.

The Cavs have LeBron - and his desire to right the wrongs that he committed four years ago - to thank for their present situation. Not their "organizational acumen."

I'm not saying that the Cavs organization is as inept as many make it out to be, but to act like they pulled this off-season off primarily because of any internal savvy, instead of the allure of Lebron James, would simply be incorrect.

[Lebron23]

Irving looks impressive in the Team USA exhibition games. I think Irving and Lillard are in the same tier. Lillard is just playing with a much better team last season.

[Cocaine80s]

1.Wall
2.Irving
3.Lillard

[BrownEye007]

He's a bitter Kyrie stan upset that everyone has hailed other PGs over his favorite player.

I remember just last year he was talking about how Kyrie is already better than Westbrook :roll:

Lillard is already more clutch, and makes players on his team better. Can't say the same about Kyrie :cheers:
Statistically Kyrie is the most clutch player in the league over the last three seasons :confusedshrug:

[no pun intended]

Wall because he's the number one option.

[RedBlackAttack]

The Cavs have LeBron - and his desire to right the wrongs that he committed four years ago - to thank for their present situation. Not their "organizational acumen."

I'm not saying that the Cavs organization is as inept as many make it out to be, but to act like they pulled this off-season off primarily because of any internal savvy, instead of the allure of Lebron James, would simply be incorrect.
There seems to be this desire to continue the narrative that the Cavs organization sucks regardless of the facts. Do you honestly believe LeBron James would have come back had he not seen the enormous potential, both in the young talent we have been grooming ( Irving, Waiters, Thompson) and the assets to make other roster moves?

There is no doubt in my mind that those factors were absolutely enormous in his decision, along with the fact that we were one of the only teams in the league capable of paying him that two year, $40+ million contract without having to move major pieces to do it... again, made possible because of organizational decisions to keep our cap sheet flexible.

And, the first two major moves for the Cavs this offseason were hiring David Blatt and signing Kyrie to a max extension minutes after the offseason moratorium, something which people questioned for years (if he'd sign or leave). All of that preceded LeBron coming back.

So, the Cavs were able to offer a situation in which a team of Kyrie, Dion, Love, Thompson and all of his sharp shooting buddies could unite and, presumably, contend immediately. Just heaping all of the praise for this situation on LeBron wanting to make it right misses the larger point.

I know he wanted to come back and right wrongs, but the organization also offered him a hell of an opportunity to build what is currently in place. Very few teams in the league had enough young talent, assets and cap space to pull off what the Cavs just did, LeBron or no. The Cavs deserve credit for that, but it remains like pulling teeth to get people to admit it.

[Meticode]

I think Wall will have a chip on his shoulder after not making Team USA. He'll have a great year making the Wizards overall better more-so than last year. I expect him and Beal to take a decent step forward this year.

[ImKobe]

Lillard (24) - 18.6 PER
John Wall (24 in 1 month) - 19.6 PER
Irving (22) - 20.1 PER

GTFO. Lillard is the oldest and least efficient player.

Lillard has less NBA experience.

Irving will be playing with Lebron and Love, so he won't be the number one guy and his numbers (at least raw numbers) should not be that impressive, considering the fact that he has to share touches with two other 20+ ppg scorers.

Wall was a pretty huge bust in the Playoffs while Lillard played well.

I think Lillard will be the best out of the 3 on the offensive side while Wall's defense puts him at #1, at least in the regular season.

[Meticode]

Wall just needs to keep developing that jumpshot.

[JT123]

Lillard
Wall

Irving

I can't put Irving in the same class as those other 2 guys, not when he fails to make the playoffs in one of the worst conferences ever. I'm sure Lebron will teach him how to win though. :rockon:

[RedBlackAttack]

I think Wall will have a chip on his shoulder after not making Team USA. He'll have a great year making the Wizards overall better more-so than last year. I expect him and Beal to take a decent step forward this year.
You think the Wizards are going to be better this year than they were last year? I don't know. I'm not so sure about that. They won 45 games, which is pretty damn good all things considered.

I feel that the East is better this year and I'm not sure the Wizards are as good. Trevor Ariza was a real key for them as a "3-and-D" guy and he's been replaced by a 36-year-old Paul Pierce, who really probably shouldn't be playing more than 25 minutes a game in the regular season at this stage. On top of that, Beal and Wall have both struggled with injuries over their first few years in the league, but both stayed healthy last year.

I wouldn't be surprised if they maintained that 45-win pace this season, but I'd be a little surprised if they were actually better all things considered. :confusedshrug:

[KyrieTheFuture]

It blows my ****ing mind that people think Lillard is better than Wall or Kyrie

[Meticode]

It blows my ****ing mind that people think Lillard is better than Wall or Kyrie
It's the playoff game winning shot. People live in the moment.

[RedBlackAttack]

Lillard has less NBA experience.

Irving will be playing with Lebron and Love, so he won't be the number one guy and his numbers (at least raw numbers) should not be that impressive, considering the fact that he has to share touches with two other 20+ ppg scorers.

Wall was a pretty huge bust in the Playoffs while Lillard played well.

I think Lillard will be the best out of the 3 on the offensive side while Wall's defense puts him at #1, at least in the regular season.
And Lillard is the No. 1 guy in Portland? LMA is far and away their best player and Lillard had him by his side from the moment he entered the league, not to mention a team loaded with shooters and pieces that fit together.

Damian Lillard was assisted on nearly 60% of his three-point attempts last year. That is pretty insane when compared to Irving's 45% assisted threes. Fact is, Lillard has never been asked to do the things that have been asked of Kyrie from the moment he stepped into the league... be the team's best player, scorer and playmaker.

And, Irving still managed to shoot a better percentage from the field... while also being two years younger. Watching Irving, Wall and Lillard compete for a spot on the US National Team, it seemed pretty obvious to me who the more complete player was. :confusedshrug:

[Duggrr]

It blows my ****ing mind that people think Lillard is better than Wall or Kyrie
I don't get how it's such a big deal? Clearly you're a Kyrie fan as i'm a Portland fan, but Lillard and Kyrie are pretty clearly neck and neck. Both play bad defense with very similar offensive capabilities

[Pointguard]

Lillard not only won more games on his back, but he runs a much more stable team game. Aldrige's game has flourished under Lillard (by contrast look how long it took CP3 to figure out Blake's game). Matthews, Batum and Lopez aren't exactly killers and all would be journey men if Lillard wasn't keeping them in the team concept. So lets stop acting like he had some great supporting cast. His wining 54 games and being out West is vastly superior to Washington or Cleveland's win/loss situation. Had almost the same record as the Clippers who had a vastly superior team.

Wall ran a gutsy team that overachieved and surprised in the playoffs. He has figured it out. The team looked to him and found him, in control, and leading. Is the best pure point guard of the lot with superior set up skills and can balance a running game with a half court game. Knows when to slow it down and feature different players. Ran a better juggling act with teammates as 7 players really contributesd at a steady pace.

Irving took a step back in a contract year. His team play was pretty bad and at times seemed like he didn't care. Wall had a similar stage too. Team was going nowhere and he might have been looking for a way out. Irving is the best penetrator of the bunch. Like Lillard has hit a bunch of clutch shots. Gets up for a big matchup like Rose used to. Is easily one of the best one on one players in the game. I don't put too much stock in his superior play in the USA trials as it simple can mean he adapts quicker and can handle a different set of challenges better. Plus, he was more comfortable with the head coach and his expectations.

But I fully expect this to be in reverse order in a year or two.

[RedBlackAttack]

Lillard not only won more games on his back, but he runs a much more stable team game. Aldrige's game has flourished under Lillard (by contrast look how long it took CP3 to figure out Blake's game). Matthews, Batum and Lopez aren't exactly killers and all would be journey men if Lillard wasn't keeping them in the team concept. So lets stop acting like he had some great supporting cast. His wining 54 games and being out West is vastly superior to Washington or Cleveland's win/loss situation. Had almost the same record as the Clippers who had a vastly superior team.

Wall ran a gutsy team that overachieved and surprised in the playoffs. He has figured it out. The team looked to him and found him, in control, and leading. Is the best pure point guard of the lot with superior set up skills and can balance a running game with a half court game. Knows when to slow it down and feature different players. Ran a better juggling act with teammates as 7 players really contributesd at a steady pace.

Irving took a step back in a contract year. His team play was pretty bad and at times seemed like he didn't care. Wall had a similar stage too. Team was going nowhere and he might have been looking for a way out. Irving is the best penetrator of the bunch. Like Lillard has hit a bunch of clutch shots. Gets up for a big matchup like Rose used to. Is easily one of the best one on one players in the game. I don't put too much stock in his superior play in the USA trials as it simple can mean he adapts quicker and can handle a different set of challenges better. Plus, he was more comfortable with the head coach and his expectations.

But I fully expect this to be in reverse order in a year or two.
LaMarcus Aldridge was averaging 22 points and 9 rebounds a game on 50% from the field as the leader of a team who went 48-34 out West two years before Lillard was drafted. I think it's safe to say he was flourishing long before Dame was on the roster.

Portland had a very good team last year, period. Lillard was a part of that team. LMA is a very versatile big man who you'd expect almost any PG in the league to love to get the chance to play with. They are a well designed team, and it shows from top to bottom. It isn't just about talent, it's about fit.

Hell, Batum averaged almost as many assists as Lillard last year and Mo Williams did average more assists per 36. They run a motion offense, not one necessarily reliant on a great playmaking point guard setting teammates up all over the floor. In that system, Lillard fits in really well as an excellent three-point shooter who will make a play occasionally for himself or others, but isn't asked to do more than just fill his role in the offense. That team is still going to live and die with LMA.

And, you're underselling Wes Matthews and Batum. Any team in the league would love to have either of those guys. That Portland team was good last year, all the way around.

[RedBlackAttack]

I don't get how it's such a big deal? Clearly you're a Kyrie fan as i'm a Portland fan, but Lillard and Kyrie are pretty clearly neck and neck. Both play bad defense with very similar offensive capabilities
Their games are really not all that similar. Lillard is an excellent shooter beyond 16-feet. His midrange and in-between game is sorely lacking, as is his ability to break down defenses and finish at the rim.

Kyrie's long-distance shooting comes and goes, but he's also assisted on way less of his attempts beyond 16 feet. He's excellent in the mid-range, has a nice in-between game and finishes very well at the basket. His game revolves more around breaking defenses down with the dribble penetration and playing off of that.

Really, they're two completely different players.

[noob cake]

Their games are really not all that similar. Lillard is an excellent shooter beyond 16-feet. His midrange and in-between game is sorely lacking, as is his ability to break down defenses and finish at the rim.

Kyrie's long-distance shooting comes and goes, but he's also assisted on way less of his attempts beyond 16 feet. He's excellent in the mid-range, has a nice in-between game and finishes very well at the basket. His game revolves more around breaking defenses down with the dribble penetration and playing off of that.

Really, they're two completely different players.

Rockets fan here. One more thing to do.

Irving is a premier prospect in the league, borderline franchise player.

Lillard's ceiling is a borderline all-star in the competitive west. He is currently the most overrated player on these forums right now.

[ralph_i_el]

I'm a huge Wiz fan but honestly, these 3 are close as hell in terms of impact on offense currently. They just do it in different ways.

Lillard- Great PnR Scorer and Good PnR distributor. good Iso player

Irving- Good PnR scorer, mediocre distributor. Great Iso player

Wall- Good PnR scorer, Great distributor, mediocre Iso player


I take Wall for his defense, but I've also watched him way more than the others.

[Pointguard]

LaMarcus Aldridge was averaging 22 points and 9 rebounds a game on 50% from the field as the leader of a team who went 48-34 out West two years before Lillard was drafted. I think it's safe to say he was flourishing long before Dame was on the roster.

Portland had a very good team last year, period. Lillard was a part of that team. LMA is a very versatile big man who you'd expect almost any PG in the league to love to get the chance to play with. They are a well designed team, and it shows from top to bottom. It isn't just about talent, it's about fit.

If you think LMA is the same player he was three years ago you are totally not watching the games. Is Blake Griffin the same player he was as a rookie when he had more impressive stats? LMA was totally unstable three years ago. Lost confidence quickly, couldn't be depended on, got confused easily. Yeah, everybody fits in when they feel like they belong on the court together. You think the exact same transformations from Batum, Matthews and Lopez is coincidental? I didn't like any of them before Lillard got there. Sorry, they all played with an extra umpf last year. An umpf like they they could win every game. I didn't see that in Cleveland.



Hell, Batum averaged almost as many assists as Lillard last year and Mo Williams did average more assists per 36. They run a motion offense, not one necessarily reliant on a great playmaking point guard setting teammates up all over the floor. In that system, Lillard fits in really well as an excellent three-point shooter who will make a play occasionally for himself or others, but isn't asked to do more than just fill his role in the offense. That team is still going to live and die with LMA.

And, you're underselling Wes Matthews and Batum. Any team in the league would love to have either of those guys. That Portland team was good last year, all the way around.
Nah, they can't live without Lillard either. They out execute teams at the end of the game. They are fifth in the league in 4th quarter ppg. http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/4th-quarter-points-per-game That's execution. Dame was sixth in the league in 4th quarter scoring. Not Aldridge, not Batum, not Matthews. To say he isn't the steadying force is crazy. The Blazers know who they are turning to.

[UK2K]

It's the playoff game winning shot. People live in the moment.
No that's just all they know, they don't actually watch the games.

[WolfGang]

Lillard is the best right now. He is a better leader and knows how to make his team better. He is a winner. Put him anywhere and you'll get success.

Wall is great but lacks the leadership Lillard has.

Kyrie is the most exciting out of the three but he has no leadership skills. He isn't as willing a passer as the other two despite him being better at it. He also has the weakest defense and athleticism out of the bunch. He COULD be better than both but he has to learn.

[RedBlackAttack]

Pointguard,

If you are seriously comparing the Cavs' roster this past season with that of Portland, there's no point in continuing the conversation. The Cavs went from wasting the first 25 games of the season on attempting to run the offense through Andrew Bynum, who was a shell of his former self, to rotating Waiters from starter to reserve to starter again, to alternating between Alonzo Gee and Earl Clark at the 3 to losing CJ Miles -- the only above average outside shooter on the team -- for most of the season, to killing the floor spacing with a Tristan Thompson / Andy Varejao frontcourt, to watching Anthony Bennett miss his first 25 shots, killing his confidence for the entire season.

Our primary rotation was also THE youngest in the entire NBA, averaging 23 years of age.

The situation that Lillard played in for his first two years and what Kyrie Irving has been asked to do are two completely different animals. You are right... you didn't see "any of that" in Cleveland. The reason has nothing to do with the respective qualities of Kyrie Irving and/or Damian Lillard.

As for LMA apparently not being the player three years ago that he was with Lillard, it may also have something to do with the fact that he wasn't in his absolute physical prime until a couple years ago. But, in 2011-12, he was "consistent" enough to be far and away the best player on a 48 win team while averaging 23/9 on better shooting than he's ever put up alongside Lillard.

He must have been doing something right. This year will be the first time in Kyrie's career that he'll be playing on a roster with even a semblance of floor spacing and where teams can't set their entire defensive gameplan to frustrate him, while ignoring the offensive 3, 4 and 5 positions.

You can compare them as players all you want, but if you think I'm buying that the difference between the Cavs and the Blazers last year was the point guard play, we're better off ending this discussion now.

[NuggetsFan]

If you are seriously comparing the Cavs' roster this past season with that of Portland, there's no point in continuing the conversation. The Cavs went from wasting the first 25 games of the season on attempting to run the offense through Andrew Bynum, who was a shell of his former self, to rotating Waiters from starter to reserve to starter again, to alternating between Alonzo Gee and Earl Clark at the 3 to losing CJ Miles -- the only above average outside shooter on the team -- for most of the season, to killing the floor spacing with a Tristan Thompson / Andy Varejao frontcourt, to watching Anthony Bennett miss hk I'm buying that the difference between the Cavs and the Blazers last year was the point guard play, we're better off ending this discussion now.

Irving was in a better situation statistically tho, outside of efficiency. Lillard would have been able to get off more shots in Cleveland and dominate the ball more. Everybody usually puts up lesser numbers on more competitive teams than players stuck on lotto teams with a green light. I mean Lillard was putting up 21 points on 16 shots playing with other talent, I'm sure he'd be a 38-41% shooter or whatever in Cleveland but he'd be able to do more. Just like now Irving has talent, he won't average 22 points a game anymore. I wonder what Lillards assists look like without Batum?

International teams are useless too. Building a team, individual performance is irrelevant. Faried is playing like a top 3 player on the squad, yet I'm not absurd enough to think that somehow means he's better than Kyrie or Harden in the NBA. There's no doubt biases exist among coaches as well. Really has no place in a NBA discussion about who's better than who.

John Wall - best defensively, best playmaker, still wrecks the paint, jumper took a big step last season.

Lillard - polished, clutch, should continue to get better. Another 20-21/6 type season as Portland's 2nd option and probably HC in a deep West.

Irving - More a situation thing with LeBron/Love. Won't have the same duties as the other two or be as relied on, defense's won't be as keyed in on him as the other two, probably close statistically or in the same ball park but for me 3rd because I think the other two will be good enough for what I mentioned at the beginning to come into play.

How I see next year.

[Pointguard]

Pointguard,

If you are seriously comparing the Cavs' roster this past season with that of Portland, there's no point in continuing the conversation. The Cavs went from wasting the first 25 games of the season on attempting to run the offense through Andrew Bynum, who was a shell of his former self, to rotating Waiters from starter to reserve to starter again, to alternating between Alonzo Gee and Earl Clark at the 3 to losing CJ Miles -- the only above average outside shooter on the team -- for most of the season, to killing the floor spacing with a Tristan Thompson / Andy Varejao frontcourt, to watching Anthony Bennett miss his first 25 shots, killing his confidence for the entire season.

I absolutely wasn't comparing rosters and didn't say anything like that. I most definitely was comparing their game attitude. And that is clear. My quote "An umpf like they they could win every game. I didn't see that in Cleveland." The Cav's went thru the motions. They played a lot of games like they didn't care. And their leader had the same cavalier attitude despite it being a contract year. Its ok, he's young. But its not correct to say he is equal to other players that go out to win every game. Attitude means a lot. Its something everybody has access to. You are right that at 22 most players don't have great leadership or attitude traits (Rose, KG, Magic, Jordan) are the only ones that come to mind immediately.


Our primary rotation was also THE youngest in the entire NBA, averaging 23 years of age.

The situation that Lillard played in for his first two years and what Kyrie Irving has been asked to do are two completely different animals. You are right... you didn't see "any of that" in Cleveland. The reason has nothing to do with the respective qualities of Kyrie Irving and/or Damian Lillard.

Who are you to say that with any authority? Portland definitely turned to Lillard to win games. That's what my post was about. They are a stable unit. They win playoff games on his back. Aldridge disappeared (was he even playing in the 4th quarter) when Portland closed out Houston and Lillard hit the three to win the series. Aldridge was invisible in game 5 as well. Lillard won their only game they beat SA in. That quality works for Lillard. And the don't care about the game is indeed a negative on Kyrie's side. And Wall had that attitude earlier in his career.



As for LMA apparently not being the player three years ago that he was with Lillard, it may also have something to do with the fact that he wasn't in his absolute physical prime until a couple years ago. But, in 2011-12, he was "consistent" enough to be far and away the best player on a 48 win team while averaging 23/9 on better shooting than he's ever put up alongside Lillard.
He averaged 23ppg this year. He never averaged 22ppg any other year. His shooting percentage could be a matter of scouting and increased usuage in the fourth quarter. Aldridge has trouble adapting as seen in the playoffs where he starts off a killer and fizzles as the series goes on. He was like that his whole career but was better this year.


He must have been doing something right. This year will be the first time in Kyrie's career that he'll be playing on a roster with even a semblance of floor spacing and where teams can't set their entire defensive gameplan to frustrate him, while ignoring the offensive 3, 4 and 5 positions.

You can compare them as players all you want, but if you think I'm buying that the difference between the Cavs and the Blazers last year was the point guard play, we're better off ending this discussion now.
I definitely never said that. But I will say this, Cavalier play was largely lifeless, selfish and not team oriented and a whooole lot of that was on Kyrie who would at times drift and not care a lot. They didn't start to really play team ball until Feb. And if Kyrie had a better attitude and played hard on defense - see John Wall vs. Wall of two years ago, the team would have looked competitive on most nights.

[bdreason]

Right now I would go with,

Wall > Lillard > Irving



Wall is the only guy who plays both sides of the ball, so he's the easy choice at #1. Lillard and Irving are similar players, and while I think Irving might be a more talented overall player, he also seems to be injury prone... and Lillard has already proven he's a gamer in the playoffs.

[Inferno]

Lillard (24) - 18.6 PER
John Wall (24 in 1 month) - 19.6 PER
Irving (22) - 20.1 PER

GTFO. Lillard is the oldest and least efficient player.

Lillard's the most efficient shooter of all 3 :oldlol:

[dubeta]

John Wall > Lillard >>> Irving

[noob cake]

Lmao, look at these hacks in this thread

[RoseCity07]

Really? Bump this thread? He had one good game and Cleveland was down 3-1. Of course they were playing care free. Do this the next two games and we'll talk.

[Relinquish]

Irving is amazing as the 2nd fiddle. He's a chucking bum as the man. :confusedshrug:

Still can't defend or pass.


He was incredibe tonight and in game 4, though.

[noob cake]

Irving is amazing as the 2nd fiddle. He's a chucking bum as the man. :confusedshrug:

Still can't defend or pass.


He was incredibe tonight and in game 4, though.


:lol :lol : Denial :roll: :roll:

[Relinquish]

:lol :lol : Denial :roll: :roll:

Where's the denial there? Do you even know the meaning of denial? :roll:

Irving was a chucking loser before Bran and the trades went down. People were wondering if the Cavs were gonna trade Irving just 2 summers ago. Now, as the #2 option, he's been playing tremendously for 2 seasons.

[noob cake]

Where's the denial there? Do you even know the meaning of denial? :roll:

Locking up Curry all series. Can't play defense. Curry is only possibly the greatest shooter in NBA history.

:facepalm

[Relinquish]

Locking up Curry all series. Can't play defense. Curry is only possibly the greatest shooter in NBA history.

:facepalm

Curry is locking himself up. He's shrinking in the moment: missing tons of open shots he normally makes and passing up shots he normally takes.

[noob cake]

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

LMAO Lillard/Wall homers

[Nike D'Antoni]

It's laughable seeing Wall in discussion now, too bad for his injuries.

[ralph_i_el]

It's laughable seeing Wall in discussion now, too bad for his injuries.

He was on that level.

[Wally450]

Crazy times 8-9 years ago.

Funny that Lillard is still the one chugging along.

[Manny98]

Kyrie is my favorite player but in their primes he's the worst of the three imo

1. Lillard
2. Wall
3. Kyrie