NATO planning 'rapid-deployment force' of 10,000 troops to counter Russia

[Rodmantheman]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/29/nato-rapid-reaction-force_n_5738800.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

This is escalating pretty quickly starting a war over Ukraine :biggums:

[MavsSuperFan]

Its stupid to fight russia over Ukraine. Ukraine has always been in the russian sphere of influence. Unfortunately for Ukraine they are russia's bitch, always have been, probably always will be.

Ukraine isnt worth fighting for. We should be using economic sanctions and trade embargos. Obviously not recognizing the puppet governments russia establishes. I would also support arming the ukrainians ala how we armed the taliban to fight the russians. But I am totally against direct action against russia for something as unimportant (to america) as Ukraine.

If russia threatens nato member then we will have to fight. Failure to honor one of our defense treaties will throw into question our ability/willingness to honor any of our defense treaties. It will badly weaken the american position and create deep instability in eastern europe, the south china sea and the middle east.

Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, and the other former members of the warsaw pact are probably the most at risk.

Estonia especially, because of their discrimination against russians.

Until Russia actually threatens a defense obligation of ours we should not directly intervene with american forces. We should indirectly intervene via proxies.

If the russian federation chooses to attack an american defense obligation, they will have left us with no choice.

Edit: also we should immediately pressure the estonian government to stop discrimination against ethnic russians in their country. Discrimination is always wrong, but estonian discrimination against russians has the added layer of stupidity (eg. russia could crush estonia 1 on 1 in a matter of hours)

Also nato expansion eastward should halt

[MadeFromDust]

Stupid

[Rodmantheman]

Stupid

yup

[Meticode]

Great decision.

[Gr]

Great decision.

That's easy to say when it's so far away from you. :lol I'm a little split on it.

[Meticode]

[QUOTE=Gr

[Gr]

I didn't say anything, I typed it.

Oh, you nitpicky...

I'm not somebody who should complain though.

[Rodmantheman]

Great decision.

:facepalm

[bdreason]

NATO. :oldlol:


I'm sure Putin is shakin in his boots.

[fiddy]

Putin is not invading NATO countries,

[Rodmantheman]

Putin is not invading NATO countries,

Exactly Ukraine isn't part of NATO.

[zoom17]

Just split Ukraine in two let Russia get eastern Ukraine and West Ukraine stays the same.

[SunsN07BookIt]

I wonder how many pretty teenage Ukrainian girls they are going to leave behind with bun in the oven when they return to their homes? :lol

[KevinNYC]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/29/nato-rapid-reaction-force_n_5738800.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

This is escalating pretty quickly starting a war over Ukraine :biggums:
Who is starting this war?

[Rodmantheman]

Who is starting this war?

Who is escalating this war?

[Godzuki]

about fukking time the UN grew some fukkin balls. nobody took them seriously and now they're starting to call some bluffs. go ahead Putin, u want to brag about nuclear weapons go ahead and use them and be blown off the face of the earth while your people turning on u.

its all bluff fear mongering while everyone was scared of possibilities. its poker. its always poker. too bad the rest of the world just learned how to play it.

[JohnFreeman]

If Russia used Nuclear weapons we would all die, you realize this?

[Godzuki]

If Russia used Nuclear weapons we would all die, you realize this?


lool no. they'd have to blow up the rest of the world before we did them. look at all of the nations in the UN then get back to me.

either way its not even the US taking action right now directly, funny enough.

[Rodmantheman]

about fukking time the UN grew some fukkin balls. nobody took them seriously and now they're starting to call some bluffs. go ahead Putin, u want to brag about nuclear weapons go ahead and use them and be blown off the face of the earth while your people turning on u.

its all bluff fear mongering while everyone was scared of possibilities. its poker. its always poker. too bad the rest of the world just learned how to play it.

Russia would fight to keep the US and NATO from setting up shop on Russia's door step. The Americans have instigated this and slapped sanctions but realistically will not fight the biggest power in Europe in their own backyard.

[Godzuki]

Russia would fight to keep the US and NATO from setting up shop on Russia's door step. The Americans have instigated this and slapped sanctions but realistically will not fight the biggest power in Europe in their own backyard.


lloool no Putin instigated this...there is no such thing as a 'western movement' no matter how retarded/brainwashed foreigners are....we have a high quality of life, u can't blame other nations for wanting to adopt it over corrupt dictatorships.

either way Putin/Russia are fukked in the long run. even if in the short term he makes out, he won't win vs the 1st world countries in the long run, no matter how much the internet nerds want to paint everyone else as evil.

[Rodmantheman]

lloool no Putin instigated this...there is no such thing as a 'western movement' no matter how retarded/brainwashed foreigners are....we have a high quality of life, u can't blame other nations for wanting to adopt it over corrupt dictatorships.

either way Putin/Russia are fukked in the long run. even if in the short term he makes out, he won't win vs the 1st world countries in the long run, no matter how much the internet nerds want to paint everyone else as evil.

Europeans nations are shooting themselves in the foot with these sanctions and it will hurt them more than the US since they are more dependent on Russia than the US is. Winter is coming fast in Europe.

[Godzuki]

Europeans nations are shooting themselves in the foot with these sanctions and it will hurt them more than the US since they are more dependent on Russia than the US is.


they'll survivie, and get around it. better than being blackballed and bullied.

[KevinNYC]

Who is escalating this war?Ok. Who is doing that? Where's the escalation?

[LEFT4DEAD]

Lets face it, Obama is scared as shit over this Russia-Ukraine situation. He doesnt have balls to attack Russians. Maybe because it would not be a fight against crazy long bearded people with AKs and couple of RPGs anymore.
Face it Americans, you cant do shit to Russia.

[oh the horror]

Lets face it, Obama is scared as shit over this Russia-Ukraine situation. He doesnt have balls to attack Russians. Maybe because it would not be a fight against crazy long bearded people with AKs and couple of RPGs anymore.
Face it Americans, you cant do shit to Russia.



Yeah actually the US can do a lot.


But at this point this continuous war shit is out of control.

[JohnFreeman]

USA would get wrecked by Russia. China would come in as well

[poido123]

ISIS movement, Israel and Palestine, Ukraine and Russia now NATOs stepping in, when are we going to stop fighting each other?

Have we not learnt from previous wars? Glad to know our forefathers fought for nothing since we keep repeating the same mistakes.

USA has come close to rattling the cage with China and now Russia. A war with Russia would be a world problem not just 2 countries.

Oh you can add north Korea too. This world is truly scary. Once nuclear warfare starts, it could get very ugly fast.

Things are going crazy

[poido123]

USA would get wrecked by Russia. China would come in as well


Yeah FCK that.

At what point in a war would one stop firing off nuclear warheads?

Half the world would be devastated.

[step_back]

Putin is suffering from a small man complex. The dude is barely 5'7 and wants the World to see how tough he is.

Superpowers going to war in this day and age is a no win situation. The sheer loss of life and damage to the Earth would be devastating. The U.S are naive in thinking they would come away unscathed too. Russia will make Pearl Harbor look like a fire works display.

[poido123]

Putin is suffering from a small man complex. The dude is barely 5'7 and wants the World to see how tough he is.

Superpowers going to war in this day and age is a no win situation. The sheer loss of life and damage to the Earth would be devastating. The U.S are naive in thinking they would come away unscathed too. Russia will make Pearl Harbor look like a fire works display.


Not as mighty as they once were the Russians...

A lot of their WW2 weapons/warheads can be found in submarines of ice lakes and abandoned buildings all over Russia. They simply cannot afford to remove these hazardous ticking time bombs.

How do they possibly fund a war? As long as you don't put troops on their land in winter, USA would win hands down win with the technologically advanced weapons they have now.

[n00bie]

Not as mighty as they once were the Russians...

A lot of their WW2 weapons/warheads can be found in submarines of ice lakes and abandoned buildings all over Russia. They simply cannot afford to remove these hazardous ticking time bombs.

How do they possibly fund a war? As long as you don't put troops on their land in winter, USA would win hands down win with the technologically advanced weapons they have now.

Going to war with another super power like Russia is VERY different from bombing countries in the Middle East. Doesn't matter who wins, the end result would be catastrophic. The losing country will probably end up launching nukes in desperation.

[step_back]

Not as mighty as they once were the Russians...

A lot of their WW2 weapons/warheads can be found in submarines of ice lakes and abandoned buildings all over Russia. They simply cannot afford to remove these hazardous ticking time bombs.

How do they possibly fund a war? As long as you don't put troops on their land in winter, USA would win hands down win with the technologically advanced weapons they have now.

Russia would operate on a War economy. Russia also has allies and still supplies weapons and equipment to other countries. It wouldn't be them vs the World like people think.

Russia is still a military powerhouse, sure they're not as advanced as the U.S but thinking you're immune is sheer arrogance. Millions of lives would be lost for what purpose exactly?

Europe is also more dependent on Russia for natural resources.

[poido123]

Russia would operate on a War economy. Russia also has allies and still supplies weapons and equipment to other countries. It wouldn't be them vs the World like people think.

Russia is still a military powerhouse, sure they're not as advanced as the U.S but thinking you're immune is sheer arrogance. Millions of lives would be lost for what purpose exactly?

Europe is also more dependent on Russia for natural resources.


I agree, we don't want war.

I'm just trying to put a positive spin on what could happen if things go wrong :(

[Godzuki]

Russia would operate on a War economy. Russia also has allies and still supplies weapons and equipment to other countries. It wouldn't be them vs the World like people think.

Russia is still a military powerhouse, sure they're not as advanced as the U.S but thinking you're immune is sheer arrogance. Millions of lives would be lost for what purpose exactly?

Europe is also more dependent on Russia for natural resources.


there are so many sectors to economies and losing the NATO allies will devastate them...basically real harsh sanctions. It will hurt the rest of the world much less than Russia.

also most people scared in this thread have to be awful poker players. you'd get bluffed out of every hand with high raises. thats exactly what Putin is doing, and only a idiot really buys into him starting a nuclear war. but again thats poker, use what u got to scare the fukk out of people and make them cave from a raise of stakes.

also once Russia starts losing soldiers in a REAL war the Russian people will realize its not just Separatists dying. all of the propaganda Putin is brainwashing them with will unravel. its actually amazing how much he/politicians can control what they read, hear, and think in a internet age of information but thats the power of a borderline dictatorship.

[KingBeasley08]

stupid. there's no point in getting involved in Ukraine. Russia has more to lose so they will take Ukraine no matter what. Don't even blame Putin to be honest, if Canada or Mexico was gonna join Russia, USA would be doin the same shit Putin's doin to Ukraine

[Godzuki]

stupid. there's no point in getting involved in Ukraine. Russia has more to lose so they will take Ukraine no matter what. Don't even blame Putin to be honest, if Canada or Mexico was gonna join Russia, USA would be doin the same shit Putin's doin to Ukraine


probably because we justifiably don't trust Putin...if they were going to join the EU i don't think we'd have that much of a issue with it.

conservative idiot foreigners are afraid of western influences thinking they're going to take over all of their culture and imprison them, and they're fed that. when their quality of lives will go up with more freedoms.

we don't even have to sell a western movement, it sells itself. look at us, we live fukking well relative to much of the rest of the world despite the conspiracy theorists and idiots who think we/they have it bad. ignorance is bliss~

[MadeFromDust]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBCkT0WPCT4

[fiddy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBCkT0WPCT4
Damn that dude bailed Bulgaria to pretend to be a Russian in WWF :(

[KingBeasley08]

probably because we justifiably don't trust Putin...if they were going to join the EU i don't think we'd have that much of a issue with it.

conservative idiot foreigners are afraid of western influences thinking they're going to take over all of their culture and imprison them, and they're fed that. when their quality of lives will go up with more freedoms.

we don't even have to sell a western movement, it sells itself. look at us, we live fukking well relative to much of the rest of the world despite the conspiracy theorists and idiots who think we/they have it bad. ignorance is bliss~
honestly has more to do with spheres of influence. Russia uses Ukraine and a few other countries as a buffer. all euro countries are soft outside of Russia so that's why the EU isn't doing shit. WW2 turned most of Europe into a bunch of betas :oldlol:

[MavsSuperFan]

USA would get wrecked by Russia. China would come in as well
both are asinine statements.

US would wreck russia (wreck is probably the wrong word, but clearly the US would win in a conventional warfare scenario)
beijing and moscow arent that close

[MavsSuperFan]

probably because we justifiably don't trust Putin...if they were going to join the EU i don't think we'd have that much of a issue with it.

conservative idiot foreigners are afraid of western influences thinking they're going to take over all of their culture and imprison them, and they're fed that. when their quality of lives will go up with more freedoms.

we don't even have to sell a western movement, it sells itself. look at us, we live fukking well relative to much of the rest of the world despite the conspiracy theorists and idiots who think we/they have it bad. ignorance is bliss~
Very few people in real life are afraid of westernization outside of the middle east.

Even there its because they are afraid their daughters will dress like skanks and do stuff like girls gone wild.

People want to live a western standard of living everywhere. Its why nato expansion eastward happened. those former soviet countries desired to join the west.

[MavsSuperFan]

NATO. :oldlol:


I'm sure Putin is shakin in his boots.
Probably not because it makes no sense for nato to directly attack him for invading ukraine. Though the US holds significant advantages over russia in any conventional warfare scenario.

in the air, on land, surface naval warfare, undersea warfare, electronic warfare, etc.

[RidonKs]

:facepalm

[MavsSuperFan]

Who is starting this war?
Russia is, but the counter point is the US betrayed russia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXqdWBwadLk
steve cohen explains it.
ray mcgovern also has some good videos on the topic

long story short, russia was promised that the US would respect their sphere of influence if they allowed the soviet union to collapse and a reunified Germany to enter nato.

Since then the US has allowed the former soviet satellite and republics of
czech republic
hungary
poland
bulgaria
estonia
latvia
lithuania
romania
slovakia
albania

join nato. blatantly disrespecting the traditional Russian sphere of influence
Slovenia and Croatia are 2 countries created by the dissolution of Yugoslavia, and both are also current nato member.

Promises were made to russia that we would respect their sphere of influence. We did not. Very quickly after the collapse of the soviet union we started treating russia like a defeated power.

Russians are also bitter that we humiliated them by attacking their Serbian allies and creating the nation of Kosovo.
and our placement of ABM missiles in poland. (since then we have scrapped the plans to place missiles in poland, but we have already given the impression to the russians that any weakness they show will be taken advantage of.)

To the russians this is similar to how we felt when they moved missiles to cuba.

I tend to think cohen and mcgovern overstate how big a betrayal this was as russia could do very little to stop what happened from happening but I do think they are correct in it made the russians bitter.

[zoom17]

http://www.newvision.co.ug/newvision_cms/newsimages/image/Emma/Putin-warns-1-inset.jpg

Give Russia eastern Ukraine and let western Ukraine stay the same.

[NumberSix]

ISIS movement, Israel and Palestine, Ukraine and Russia now NATOs stepping in, when are we going to stop fighting each other?

Have we not learnt from previous wars? Glad to know our forefathers fought for nothing since we keep repeating the same mistakes.

USA has come close to rattling the cage with China and now Russia. A war with Russia would be a world problem not just 2 countries.

Oh you can add north Korea too. This world is truly scary. Once nuclear warfare starts, it could get very ugly fast.

Things are going crazy
Perhaps the commonwealth nations should get the old band back together? :confusedshrug:

[JohnFreeman]

Perhaps the commonwealth nations should get the old band back together? :confusedshrug:
http://www.history.com/images/media/slideshow/world-war-ii-political-leaders/fdr-and-churchill.jpg

[StephHamann]

The west should focus on the middle east threat, and not fight each other over some eastern europe shithole. :facepalm

Same mistakes were made with the Ottoman Empire back in the days.

[StephHamann]

West created the middle east threat.

we should have eliminated that threat long ago, start a new crusade and be done with it.

[RidonKs]

even this issue which has just ratcheted up is being discussed on totally fantastical grounds. i heard an interview with a geopolitical academic this morning on the cbc (canada state broadcaster)... every single point he made was through the lens of russian action. what is russia doing, what are its interests, why is the kremlin suddenly so aggressive, what is russia's history in the region....

that's all well and good and important for understanding how the west should respond to the issue. but this is the problem. the ukraine crisis, like every other crisis of the past 60 years, is discussed in terms of russian action and western reaction. and it completely neglects to fill in the context of western involvement in the ukraine since the end of the cold war.

[ImKobe]

http://media.giphy.com/media/jxqSgd1TtHu4U/giphy.gif

[KevinNYC]

even this issue which has just ratcheted up is being discussed on totally fantastical grounds. i heard an interview with a geopolitical academic this morning on the cbc (canada state broadcaster)... every single point he made was through the lens of russian action. what is russia doing, what are its interests, why is the kremlin suddenly so aggressive, what is russia's history in the region....

that's all well and good and important for understanding how the west should respond to the issue. but this is the problem. the ukraine crisis, like every other crisis of the past 60 years, is discussed in terms of russian action and western reaction. and it completely neglects to fill in the context of western involvement in the ukraine since the end of the cold war.
All well and Good, but Russian did invade another sovereign country.

[RidonKs]

All well and Good, but Russian did invade another sovereign country.
and the context of the past six months have been almost entirely dropped from practically every conversation i've witnessed on this website and in the mainstream news/magazine coverage i pay attention to. the context being crucial not because ITS NOT RUSSIAS FAULT ITS AMERICAS FAULT but because as a canadian citizen myself and as an american citizen yourself, your attention should be focused like a laser on the way your own government has responded to the situation. since that's the government you actually have a chance to influence. and the "western response" to "russian aggression" has been a) miscalculated and b) self interested. like always.

[East_Stone_Ya]

Two days ago BBC and CNN headlines were reporting how the Neo-Nazi Ukrainian puppet government had made gains and was winning the war......

Today all their articles are about their retreat and fallout :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Russia about to Free Eastern Ukraine for good!! Great times!! :cheers:



I could understand this if your only media of choice is RT

[KevinNYC]

and the context of the past six months have been almost entirely dropped from practically every conversation i've witnessed on this website and in the mainstream news/magazine coverage i pay attention to. the context being crucial not because ITS NOT RUSSIAS FAULT ITS AMERICAS FAULT but because as a canadian citizen myself and as an american citizen yourself, your attention should be focused like a laser on the way your own government has responded to the situation. since that's the government you actually have a chance to influence. and the "western response" to "russian aggression" has been a) miscalculated and b) self interested. like always.


Are you saying the US caused Russia to invade? If you are not, then I am not following you

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Any of ya fellas see November Man?

[unbreakable]

politics is crazy with a capital K

[Nick Young]

If these NATO forces arent lead by the USA, they will fail hard. Just can't trust the euros, azns or africans when it comes to winning wars.

[NumberSix]

If these NATO forces arent lead by the USA, they will fail hard. Just can't trust the euros, azns or africans when it comes to winning wars.
Lol. There are no Asian or African countries in NATO.... Unless you want to count Turkey which is kind of ambiguous.

[KevinNYC]

so youre saying a coup deserves no response from neighboring countries?

Well I don't believe what happened in the Ukraine was a coup.

A. The previous president was a thief who fled the country.
B. 73% of Parliament voted to remove him
C. New Elections were held to determine who should be the new president.

[JohnnySic]

This sounds like it could get entertaining.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/2837510/michael-jackson-eating-popcorn-o.gif

[RidonKs]

Are you saying the US caused Russia to invade? If you are not, then I am not following you
that's not what i'm saying.

[KevinNYC]

that's not what i'm saying.
OK, then the second part applies.

It's unclear what you are saying.

[BoutPractice]

- Ukraine is not "some Eastern European shithole". It is so important that WW2 was practically fought over it.

- The West may have covertly helped the revolution, but the Russian puppet who was heading Ukraine was turning into a kleptocratic dictator ("democratically elected" or not... Putin was also voted in, and only a blind man would deny that he's a dictator). The majority of Ukrainians doesn't want to live in some corrupt satellite state, and would rather be part of a free, independent country with a strong economy (an ideal Euromaidan associates with Europe... of course, ideals are one thing, reality is another... just like dreams of a "land of opportunity", this is a fantasy more than anything), regardless of issues of language and culture. The first protests against Yanukovych occurred spontaneously. Ukrainians had enough reasons to hate the regime, and didn't need any help expressing their anger...

- You shouldn't believe everynthing America says... healthy skepticism is a good thing, after all, it's not like the West hasn't been had by imperialistic warmongers before (Iraq).

But if you believe obvious Russian propaganda, you're an idiot. Critical thinking means criticizing both sides... Anything that comes out of the Kremlin is certifiable BS. They're literally trolling the international community as part of their war strategy... taking their version of events seriously would be like taking a post by Euroleague seriously.

And it's not just about Putin: he's just keeping up a long tradition of Russia looking out for its "interests" (defined as "whatever benefits the current tsar at the moment") in completely ruthless fashion, without caring in the least bit what the rest of the world has to say.

- Putin currently has this image in the West as some "chess master" who is playing the atlantic alliance for fools. This is merely the symptom of a militarily inferiority complex. The insecure West is doubting itself, secretly wishing they could go back to being 19th century bullies. The truth is, this war probably won't help anyone, but it will help Putin and Russia the least. Putin, cornered and desperate, is playing a short term game. There is no way Russia is better off than before after all this... His gains will be short-lived, his losses irreversible. That doesn't mean we planned all of this either. There's no chess master in this game. Putin, Obama, Merkel... Everyone is just winging it (which, in a way, is more troubling).

- Who started the war really doesn't matter at this point. What does matter is that we're in a historically unstable situation. But make no mistake: Putin is the main problem here. He's opened Pandora's box and made the world a much, much more dangerous place than it's been in decades. Forget about Al-Qaeda, even ISIS. Putin is a real threat to the world order. His perceived unpredictability is creating fear, and fear tends to lead to catastrophes no one wanted.

[Dresta]

Its stupid to fight russia over Ukraine. Ukraine has always been in the russian sphere of influence. Unfortunately for Ukraine they are russia's bitch, always have been, probably always will be.

Ukraine isnt worth fighting for. We should be using economic sanctions and trade embargos. Obviously not recognizing the puppet governments russia establishes. I would also support arming the ukrainians ala how we armed the taliban to fight the russians. But I am totally against direct action against russia for something as unimportant (to america) as Ukraine.

If russia threatens nato member then we will have to fight. Failure to honor one of our defense treaties will throw into question our ability/willingness to honor any of our defense treaties. It will badly weaken the american position and create deep instability in eastern europe, the south china sea and the middle east.

Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, and the other former members of the warsaw pact are probably the most at risk.

Estonia especially, because of their discrimination against russians.

Until Russia actually threatens a defense obligation of ours we should not directly intervene with american forces. We should indirectly intervene via proxies.

If the russian federation chooses to attack an american defense obligation, they will have left us with no choice.

Edit: also we should immediately pressure the estonian government to stop discrimination against ethnic russians in their country. Discrimination is always wrong, but estonian discrimination against russians has the added layer of stupidity (eg. russia could crush estonia 1 on 1 in a matter of hours)

Also nato expansion eastward should haltAgree with this. NATO and the EU are looking as much expansionary powers as Russia is right now. This problem may not have even developed if the EU could stop trying to absorb everyone and their momma into the EU. Not everyone wants to live with a supranational bureaucratic machine micro-managing their lives, thanks.

The US certainly should not get involved: enough of Europeans s******ing behind their backs about the US and Americans, whinging about American wars, acting as if they hate America etc. only for them to beg for American support to bail them out when they bite of more than they can chew. Let Europeans deal with their own problems again if they're so superior. If Americans get involved they'll just be used as a scapegoat to blame if anything goes wrong as per.

[Dresta]

Hhahah

Yeah putins made the world a more dangerous place. Not america and th e west who have murdered millions of people in South East Asia, Africa, The Middle East and the Balkans in the last few decades.

No its Putin whose made the world more dangerous ahhah

Youre right though. He has made the world worse for some. And thats worse for America and its puppets who have been allowed to run their murderous forieng policy worldwide without critcism.

In turn thats goin to make it safer for millions of others who are threatened by America
Sorry, but what is 'the West'? How many decades are you referring to? And who were these millions of people that were 'murdered' (a definition i think you need to look up)?

Be more specific, because what you have written thus far is only a rambling pile of garbage; rather typical of your tin-foil wearing anti-'west' bashing imbecile if you ask me: no specifics, just blanket blame for the West with no other considerations needed.

Your grasp of the English language also seems rather frail, which may explain the complete incoherence of your points, but perhaps not.

[Dresta]

Syria? Does the West get the blame for the war in the Congo too then? The West saved Bosnian Muslims from extirpation - somehow we are blaming the West for the aggressive actions of Serbia and Croatia post Soviet Union (nothing to do with 'the West')? The 2 million dead in Syria could easily be pointed to and said 'this is what the death toll ends up at if the US doesn't get involved' - instead, in Iraq, where a far longer conflict was taking place, only around 100,000 were killed (most not by Westerners but other Muslims, let me remind you).

Why are you blaming the West for things like the Iran/Iraq war just because they provided arms?

You're being horribly biased and ignoring all the other parties involved, and also exculpating them from their far greater guilt. Basically, all you have there is Indochina, and most of the people who were involved in that atrocious campaign are already dead, or walking corpses (Kissinger). Not really 'the last few decades' and really no longer relevant. In fact, anything before the end of the Cold War is irrelevant as the geo-political arena has changed drastically since then.

[RidonKs]

OK, then the second part applies.

It's unclear what you are saying.
in geopolitics, things are much more complicated than x causes y... obviously. so to reduce what i said to that is kinda silly.