At what point do we blame the star players?

[Lebronxrings]

Teams like the clippers and okc always get off with the same old "Team isn't good enough" or "We need better players". Though, when is it that we finally realize maybe the core itself isn't good enough. Ex: The clippers could add Paul Pierce, Blatche, Thabeet, and they STILL wouldn't beat okc. Meanwhile if Okc added bledsoe, monroe, they in turn would lose to the cavs. So why does this happen? clips vs hokc Durant>Griffin, Westbrook>>>>>>Paul.
okc vs cavs Lebron>>>>Durant, westbrook>Irving, but the gap between lebron and durant is good great, no one can fill it. Star players are the ones with the ball in their hands the most, and play the most minutes. Complementary pieces can only take you so far, while the core itself is the main controller.

The only teams to win a championship with inferior cores are probably the spurs : Genius Pop, leading the Spurs with 5 rings (Give him d leaguers and he could still win 5)
Brown with the Pistons (Perfect synch)


Therefore, most of the time, championships should be dictated based upon the main pieces of the team. Not the side.

Just wondering, how others view this point. Discuss.

[Young X]

Do you blame Lebron for his teams going 2/5 in the finals?

[ZMonkey11]

France vs Brazil is a pretty good game right now. On NBA TV.

[Lebronxrings]

Do you blame Lebron for his teams going 2/5 in the finals?
no because his losses were against cores inferior to him. 2007 and 2014- Lebron>>>>Duncan, parker, ginobili.
Pop>>>>>>>Brown

2011-
lebron>>>>>>Dirk
Terry>=Wade
Carlisie>>>>>>>>Spo

Also Dirk played out of his mind.

[JT123]

OP has a great point. No matter how many times Durant comes up small in the clutch, the media never holds him accountable for his failures. The Thunder have been the most talented team in the league since 2011, and still no rings?! :facepalm

[buddha]

no because his losses were against cores inferior to him. 2007 and 2014- Lebron>>>>Duncan, parker, ginobili.
Pop>>>>>>>Brown

2011-
lebron>>>>>>Dirk
Terry>=Wade
Carlisie>>>>>>>>Spo

Also Dirk played out of his mind.

so LeBron doesn't get blamed for the loss because he was better than his competition? :biggums:

[KobesFinger]

no because his losses were against cores inferior to him. 2007 and 2014- Lebron>>>>Duncan, parker, ginobili.
Pop>>>>>>>Brown

2011-
lebron>>>>>>Dirk
Terry>=Wade
Carlisie>>>>>>>>Spo

Also Dirk played out of his mind.

Was LeBron the best player in the 2011 Finals?

[T_L_P]

no because his losses were against cores inferior to him. 2007 and 2014- Lebron>>>>Duncan, parker, ginobili.
Pop>>>>>>>Brown

2011-
lebron>>>>>>Dirk
Terry>=Wade
Carlisie>>>>>>>>Spo

Also Dirk played out of his mind.

Duncan had a higher PER than LeBron in the regular season and Playoffs.

Don't ever stray away from the perfect formula you dweeb.

[Nowitness]

if pop is such an insane coach why didn't he even make a conference finals from 09/11, duncan's worst years? i really respect your opinion so I want to know

[Lebronxrings]

so LeBron doesn't get blamed for the loss because he was better than his competition? :biggums:
Give dirk credit, he played out of his mind and simply was way too dominant for anyone to handle. And no, i'm not saying he shouldn't get blamed. I'm merely saying we all know Lebron SHOULD have won, just because he was the better player. We didn't need to stack up because our core fumbled and made a mistake. In the clippers case vs okc, their core is inferior.





Was LeBron the best player in the 2011 Finals?:
Basketball is a team game.

[Lebronxrings]

Duncan had a higher PER than LeBron in the regular season and Playoffs.

Don't ever stray away from the perfect formula you dweeb.
:lol

[Lebronxrings]

if pop is such an insane coach why didn't he even make a conference finals from 09/11, duncan's worst years? i really respect your opinion so I want to know
Like I said, Pop is a genius, not a miracle worker. 09 he lost to the mavs with carlisie, who gives pop a whole lot of trouble like we saw this year. 2011 was the result of fatigue and change. Pop needed to readjust and the Spurs were getting older, so he needed to change the setups.

[KobesFinger]

Give dirk credit, he played out of his mind and simply was way too dominant for anyone to handle. And no, i'm not saying he shouldn't get blamed. I'm merely saying we all know Lebron SHOULD have won, just because he was the better player. We didn't need to stack up because our core fumbled and made a mistake. In the clippers case vs okc, their core is inferior.





Basketball is a team game.

But was LeBron the best player in the 2011 Finals?

[Nowitness]

Like I said, Pop is a genius, not a miracle worker. 09 he lost to the mavs with carlisie, who gives pop a whole lot of trouble like we saw this year. 2011 was the result of fatigue and change. Pop needed to readjust and the Spurs were getting older, so he needed to change the setups.

fatigued old stars are better than d-leagues. who you said pop could still win 5 with. what a retard.

okay....how come he lost in the first round in 2000 when duncan went down? he was a role player his whole career and a d-leaguer could take his place accordin to you...what happened?

[Lebronxrings]

But was LeBron the best player in the 2011 Finals?
No relelvance whatsoever towards my point. NO HE WASN'T THE BEST PLAYER IN THE FINALS. WE ALL KNOW HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN THOUGH. MY POINT IS HE SHOULD HAVE WON, BUT DIDN'T SO THE TALK OF NEEDING BETTER PLAYERS WASN'T VALID TO THIS. STOP BEING A FRIGGING MORON.

[Lebronxrings]

fatigued old stars are better than d-leagues. who you said pop could still win 5 with. what a retard.

okay....how come he lost in the first round in 2000 when duncan went down? he was a role player his whole career and a d-leaguer could take his place accordin to you...what happened?
terrible post. You think anyone can come up with new plays within a few days. Duncan was a player in the system. His legacy is not of his skills, but his contribution to the system e.g picks, camping in the paint, etc. When you lose a piece your whole gameplan changes.

[Le Shaqtus]

no because his losses were against cores inferior to him. 2007 and 2014- Lebron>>>>Duncan, parker, ginobili.
Pop>>>>>>>Brown

2011-
lebron>>>>>>Dirk
Terry>=Wade
Carlisie>>>>>>>>Spo

Also Dirk played out of his mind.

I think you mean Terry>LeBron

[Nowitness]

terrible post. You think anyone can come up with new plays within a few days. Duncan was a player in the system. His legacy is not of his skills, but his contribution to the system e.g picks, camping in the paint, etc. When you lose a piece your whole gameplan changes.

are you talking about the 2000 loss here? Spurs weren't a pick and roll team in the slightest then and tthe offense was duncan posting up just outside the paint

man you are stupid. :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[T_L_P]

:lol

07 Duncan > 07 LeBron bro.

the above-all metric of PER says so. Don't try to avoid it when it doesn't suit your agenda. :cheers:

[Lebronxrings]

are you talking about the 2000 loss here? Spurs weren't a pick and roll team in the slightest then and tthe offense was duncan posting up just outside the paint

man you are stupid. :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
duncan was a role player out the many. Once you lose a part of the play, it gets tough. Especially considering in Pops system, role players are vital.

[GrapeApe]

terrible post. You think anyone can come up with new plays within a few days. Duncan was a player in the system. His legacy is not of his skills, but his contribution to the system e.g picks, camping in the paint, etc. When you lose a piece your whole gameplan changes.

Duncan WAS the system. What was Pop before Duncan? We all know Pop is a great coach but he's not some sort of deity. He's had his share if shortcomings and garnered heavy criticism as recently as the '13 finals.

[Nowitness]

duncan was a role player out the many. Once you lose a part of the play, it gets tough. Especially considering in Pops system, role players are vital.

typical you. ignored what i asked. :oldlol:

duncan was the system. and it worked.

meanwhile the 'goat' lebron can't even outplay jason terry or contain kawhi leonard. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Bandito]

The problem with that is unless the players plays badly (chris paul 2014, Lebron 2011) you can't put all the blame on them because in the end is a team sport.

[Mr Exlax]

I don't really blame the player until they play below their averages unless the defense is keyed in soley on him and allow for his teammates to get uncontested looks and they come up short. I'm not saying settle for what the defense gives you every possession, but don't force it and take ill advised shots every possession either.

[dubeta]

07 Duncan > 07 LeBron bro.

the above-all metric of PER says so. Don't try to avoid it when it doesn't suit your agenda. :cheers:

So 2008-2014 LeBron >> any version of Duncan?

7 different versions of LeBron are better than any form of Duncan?? :eek: :bowdown:


Ok now that we agree on the PER formula, now YOU dont try and backtrack from it :oldlol:

[T_L_P]

So 2008-2014 LeBron >> any version of Duncan?

7 different versions of LeBron are better than any form of Duncan?? :eek: :bowdown:


Ok now that we agree on the PER formula, now YOU dont try and backtrack from it :oldlol:

Actually, I don't agree with the PER formula at all. You made a thread saying it was the perfect judger of players.

I'm just holding you to your criteria. :facepalm

[dubeta]

Actually, I don't agree with the PER formula at all. You made a thread saying it was the perfect judger of players.

I'm just holding you to your criteria. :facepalm

Ok so do you want us to stick with it or no?

So you want us LeBron fans to stick with PER no matter what. And then when we use it you 'conviniently' say you dont agree with it.

smh Duncan fans :facepalm

[T_L_P]

Ok so do you want us to stick with it or no?

So you want us LeBron fans to stick with PER no matter what. And then when we use it you 'conviniently' say you dont agree with it.

smh Duncan fans :facepalm

No. I judge players on a multitude of things.

You made a thread saying PER is the end-all, be-all. When you say 07 > Duncan and your God-like formula doesn't agree, I will call you on it. Do you understand simple logic? :facepalm

[Nowitness]

No. I judge players on a multitude of things.

You made a thread saying PER is the end-all, be-all. When you say 07 > Duncan and your God-like formula doesn't agree, I will call you on it. Do you understand simple logic? :facepalm

no he cant. lebrick is 2/5 in the finals even with another top 10 player of all time. and he thinks he is the goat :oldlol:

[ralph_i_el]

At what point do we stop blaming good teams for not winning championships every year.

Can't we just enjoy them for the good basketball entertainment they offer us, and support our own squads? I don't know why we have to get so bogged down in the negativity that comes with the Championship/Failure mindset.

I'm resolving to not get so negative about basketball. Until Nene gets hurt (again)

[dubeta]

No. I judge players on a multitude of things.

You made a thread saying PER is the end-all, be-all. When you say 07 > Duncan and your God-like formula doesn't agree, I will call you on it. Do you understand simple logic? :facepalm

When did I say LeBron > Duncan in 2007?

[Lebronxrings]

No. I judge players on a multitude of things.

You made a thread saying PER is the end-all, be-all. When you say 07 > Duncan and your God-like formula doesn't agree, I will call you on it. Do you understand simple logic? :facepalm
what a beta :facepalm you're bringing up PER against me when i never talked about it. Stop bringing dubeta in the discussion to hide it.

[T_L_P]

what a beta :facepalm you're bringing up PER against me when i never talked about it. Stop bringing dubeta in the discussion to hide it.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10429417&postcount=12

[chocolatethunder]

Teams like the clippers and okc always get off with the same old "Team isn't good enough" or "We need better players". Though, when is it that we finally realize maybe the core itself isn't good enough. Ex: The clippers could add Paul Pierce, Blatche, Thabeet, and they STILL wouldn't beat okc. Meanwhile if Okc added bledsoe, monroe, they in turn would lose to the cavs. So why does this happen? clips vs hokc Durant>Griffin, Westbrook>>>>>>Paul.
okc vs cavs Lebron>>>>Durant, westbrook>Irving, but the gap between lebron and durant is good great, no one can fill it. Star players are the ones with the ball in their hands the most, and play the most minutes. Complementary pieces can only take you so far, while the core itself is the main controller.

The only teams to win a championship with inferior cores are probably the spurs : Genius Pop, leading the Spurs with 5 rings (Give him d leaguers and he could still win 5)
Brown with the Pistons (Perfect synch)


Therefore, most of the time, championships should be dictated based upon the main pieces of the team. Not the side.

Just wondering, how others view this point. Discuss.
Well on ISH if the players are black they're not blamed. If they're white, then it's always their fault. A Dirk led team will never win a championship, Loves stats are empty. AI never had help in Philly, KG never had help etc.

[jimmy77x]

what a beta :facepalm you're bringing up PER against me when i never talked about it. Stop bringing dubeta in the discussion to hide it.



http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10429417&postcount=12


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: Then he talks about his alt like they are different people. This guy is a complete psycho.

[Droid101]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10429417&postcount=12
branstans taking L's as usual.

[Brokenbeat]

No relelvance whatsoever towards my point. NO HE WASN'T THE BEST PLAYER IN THE FINALS. WE ALL KNOW HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN THOUGH. MY POINT IS HE SHOULD HAVE WON, BUT DIDN'T SO THE TALK OF NEEDING BETTER PLAYERS WASN'T VALID TO THIS. STOP BEING A FRIGGING MORON.

Finally admitting he choked. :applause:

[AI Thornton]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10429417&postcount=12

Owned :applause:

[Cali Syndicate]

No relelvance whatsoever towards my point. NO HE WASN'T THE BEST PLAYER IN THE FINALS. WE ALL KNOW HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN THOUGH. MY POINT IS HE SHOULD HAVE WON, BUT DIDN'T SO THE TALK OF NEEDING BETTER PLAYERS WASN'T VALID TO THIS. STOP BEING A FRIGGING MORON.

Sooooooo, based on the premise of your thread, what you're saying is that Wade in 2011 didn't have enough support from his teammates? The main piece being Lebron? You do realize most of us already know this, right?

[AnaheimLakers24]

brans little riders taking Ls :lol
always getting slayed but keep coming back for more like bran