prime Shawn Marion vs Broken down Mj

[juju151111]

Why did Shawn Marion struggle to guard 38-40 years old man with no knees and tendinitis. Shawn Marion is 6'8 with Long arms and a good defender. Somebody someone from the weak era should of been overwhelmed by is new era athleticism and defense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKKhY4BGhNM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd9ayPlqCMghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd9ayPlqCMghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd9ayPlqCMg

[PHILA]

It's the quick decisive moves and highly effective pump fakes. Below is another example from 1991 where he gets Hawkins off his feet, and beats both Armen Gilliam and 7'7 Manute Bol to score. Jayson Williams on the Sixers bench cannot believe it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmjUpA3UVlA&t=14m7s


Alternate Angle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8fLj8E0W8w&t=6m16s

[juju151111]

It's the quick decisive moves and highly effective pump fakes. Below is another example from 1991 where he gets Hawkins off his feet, and beats both Armen Gilliam and 7'7 Manute Bol to score. Jayson Williams on the Sixers bench cannot believe it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmjUpA3UVlA&t=14m7s


Alternate Angle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8fLj8E0W8w&t=6m16s
Pretty much.

[iamgine]

Why did Shawn Marion struggle to guard 38-40 years old man with no knees and tendinitis. Shawn Marion is 6'8 with Long arms and a good defender. Somebody someone from the weak era should of been overwhelmed by is new era athleticism and defense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKKhY4BGhNM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd9ayPlqCMghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd9ayPlqCMghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd9ayPlqCMg
Example of only one game?

How about when he shot 7-21 with 9 TO against Chicago and Ron Artest?

Or when he shot 5-21 against Duncan's Spurs?

Are those proof that someone from the weak era that's overwhelmed by new era defense

[ralph_i_el]

Yeah during his 2 seasons on the Wiz he had 26 and 28 games respectively shooting under 40%

Post some of those game films! And it's not like he's chucker kobe putting up a ton of 3's and shooting a low %, he was shooting those percentages on only 2's :facepalm

[juju151111]

Example of only one game?

How about when he shot 7-21 with 9 TO against Chicago and Ron Artest?

Or when he shot 5-21 against Duncan's Spurs?

Are those proof that someone from the weak era that's overwhelmed by new era defense
A 38-40 year old shouldn't be able to even play in this era. He came in the 80s how it possible he scored 50 points multiple times vs these new era athleticism.

[GODbe]

Example of only one game?

How about when he shot 7-21 with 9 TO against Chicago and Ron Artest?

Or when he shot 5-21 against Duncan's Spurs?

Are those proof that someone from the weak era that's overwhelmed by new era defense
Precisely.

[juju151111]

Yeah during his 2 seasons on the Wiz he had 26 and 28 games respectively shooting under 40%

Post some of those game films! And it's not like he's chucker kobe putting up a ton of 3's and shooting a low %, he was shooting those percentages on only 2's :facepalm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3IWrGl4ODwhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3IWrGl4ODw Broken down Mj vs New era Tracy mcgrady

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsQtYJC3mWo vs the Nets who made the finals

Mj vs Ron artest https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV52IrBoj90

Wasn't inefficient Iverson making the all-star game back then. What I would like to know is how a 38-40 with multiple surgeries(Started missing open dunks at one point) could ever put up a 50 pt game in the new era.

[ralph_i_el]

A 38-40 year old shouldn't be able to even play in this era. He came in the 80s how it possible he scored 50 points multiple times vs these new era athleticism.

HE SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN PLAYING IN THIS ERA AT THAT AGE. HE WAS VERY VERY BAD AND DETRIMENTAL TO HIS TEAM.

What don't you get about this :facepalm He's the GOAT, but for the Wiz he has just shooting midrange jumpers and turnarounds from the post. Teams were happy to give him those shots. Obviously some games he'll go off just purely based on the fact that he's taking a ton of shots and no one had the balls to tell him to knock that shit off.

Unless you're shooting in the 45-50% range from midrange, there is no excuse to take 1000 of those shots in a season. In those two seasons he took 72.5% and 73.8% of his shots from midrange, and shot about 41% on this shots.

:facepalm ****ing awful. Those shots don't get you an extra point like a 3, and don't draw fouls like getting to the rim (which he rarely did). He had no business playing NBA ball at that point.


are you seriously posting vids where he scored 25 points on 25 shots to SUPPORT your argument? Posting single games isn't really an argument anyways, as no one puts up game footage of him bricking 15 shots in a game while the rest of the team stands around staring at their feet. MJ's ego literally wasted 2 seasons for the Wizards.

[juju151111]

HE SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN PLAYING IN THIS ERA AT THAT AGE. HE WAS VERY VERY BAD AND DETRIMENTAL TO HIS TEAM.

What don't you get about this :facepalm He's the GOAT, but for the Wiz he has just shooting midrange jumpers and turnarounds from the post. Teams were happy to give him those shots. Obviously some games he'll go off just purely based on the fact that he's taking a ton of shots and no one had the ball to tell him to knock that shit off.

Unless you're shooting in the 45-50% range from midrange, there is no excuse to take 1000 of those shots in a season. In those two seasons he took 72.5% and 73.8% of his shots from midrange, and shot about 41% on this shots.

:facepalm ****ing awful. Those shots don't get you an extra point like a 3, and don't draw fouls like getting to the rim (which he rarely did). He had no business playing NBA ball at that point.


are you seriously posting vids where he scored 25 points on 25 shots to SUPPORT your arguement?
They win 37 games and that's with Mj getting injured in the middle of the season then playing injured the rest of the season. They only won 19 the year before. Before Mj got Injured they were on pace to make the playoffs. My arguments already proven bro. Mj shouldn't of been able to score 50 pts or get those 40 pt games at 38-40 old with no knees with those new era players. He should of not even been able to play. Look at someone like Trevor arias they tried to make him into a star but couldn't even take on the load a star does for one season and reverted back toa role player.

[ralph_i_el]

They win 37 games and that's with Mj getting injured in the middle of the season then playing injured the rest of the season. They only won 19 the year before. Before Mj got Injured they were on pace to make the playoffs. My arguments already proven bro. Mj shouldn't of been able to score 50 pts or get those 40 pt games at 38-40 old with no knees with those new era players. He should of not even been able to play. Look at someone like Trevor arias they tried to make him into a star but couldn't even take on the load a star does for one season and reverted back toa role player.

They won 19 games because of tons of injuries and Juwan Howard being a bum.

MJ had a few high scoring games because he jacked up tons of the easiest to get shots. Overall, he was shit.

Where does Trevor Ariza come into this? That dude can't even dribble a basketball.

in 01-02 MJ needed FIVE more shots per game to score TWO more points than Rip Hamilton.

You know taking a ton of shots and missing most of them is BAD right?

02-03 MJ: 3/12 (L), 4/16 (L), 5/20 (L), 4/15 (L), 8/25 (L).....the list goes on and on.


No use arguing with you. If MJ wanted to butt**** your whole family you'd ask to go first.

[juju151111]

They won 19 games because of tons of injuries and Juwan Howard being a bum.

MJ had a few high scoring games because he jacked up tons of the easiest to get shots. Overall, he was shit.

Where does Trevor Ariza come into this? That dude can't even dribble a basketball.

in 01-02 MJ needed FIVE more shots per game to score TWO more points than Rip Hamilton.

You know taking a ton of shots and missing most of them is BAD right?

02-03 MJ: 3/12 (L), 4/16 (L), 5/20 (L), 4/15 (L), 8/25 (L).....the list goes on and on.


No use arguing with you. If MJ wanted to butt**** your whole family you'd ask to go first.
They won 37 games and 19 more then the previous season. Stop your BS. They were on pace to make the playoffs before Mj got Injured.

My point was not everyone can just become a star player and score. Trevor ariza

Easiest to get shots? The **** are you talking about. He had no knees at 38-40 yet scoring 50. You do realize that it's hard to score 50 right .

You seem very mad bro. Only 4 years before that season Mj was MVP, Fmvp, ASMvp

[ralph_i_el]

They won 37 games and 19 more then the previous season. Stop your BS. They were on pace to make the playoffs before Mj got Injured.

My point was not everyone can just become a star player and score. Trevor ariza

Easiest to get shots? The **** are you talking about. He had no knees at 38-40 yet scoring 50. You do realize that it's hard to score 50 right .

You seem very mad bro. Only 4 years before that season Mj was MVP, Fmvp, ASMvp

4 years before MJ was actually good.

There are plenty of guys that could put up better stats than Wizards MJ if they had the green light to shoot more than a third of their teams shots when they're on the floor.

****ing Nick Young could easily put up 22ppg if he had that kind of green light. Jimmer Fredette could do it. Shit, go look at Larry Hughes in 04-05

Terrence Ross scored 50. Andre Miller scored 50, Tracy Murry scored 50.
When you're hot and have the green light to chuck away, things happen.

The difference is, no one came to the game to see those guys jack up 25 shots. MJ used to be a god, so people came to see MJ and he usually couldn't deliver. His Ortg's were shit those two seasons. When he was on the court it was just all about MJ. He was bigger than the team.


You know why I'm mad? Because MJ joined my favorite team and ran them into the ground with his bullshit ego. Drafting Kwame and then destroying his confidence :facepalm

Yeah they won 19 games the season before, when all their vets were hurt and washed up. The actual basketball move wouldnt be to mortgage your future on 2 seasons of MJ chucking, it would be to actually rebuild once you got rid of the mid-30's veterans. Plus they got Doug Collins after that year.

[DonDadda59]

You know why I'm mad? Because MJ joined my favorite team and ran them into the ground with his bullshit ego.

:oldlol:

Ran them into the ground when they were a 19 win team the season before and had only made the playoffs once in the previous 10 years? But Jordan's broken down ass had them battling for playoff position, not to mention bringing attention, paying customers, etc to an obscure franchise no one gave 2 shits about?

It's pretty hilarious watching you guys work over time to try to tear down a 38-40 year old with no knees who was literally playing for charity on the 3rd worst team in the league. Just mad as phuck over nothing :rant

[juju151111]

4 years before MJ was actually good.

There are plenty of guys that could put up better stats than Wizards MJ if they had the green light to shoot more than a third of their teams shots when they're on the floor.

****ing Nick Young could easily put up 22ppg if he had that kind of green light. Jimmer Fredette could do it. Shit, go look at Larry Hughes in 04-05

Terrence Ross scored 50. Andre Miller scored 50, Tracy Murry scored 50.
When you're hot and have the green light to chuck away, things happen.

The difference is, no one came to the game to see those guys jack up 25 shots. MJ used to be a god, so people came to see MJ and he usually couldn't deliver. His Ortg's were shit those two seasons. When he was on the court it was just all about MJ. He was bigger than the team.


You know why I'm mad? Because MJ joined my favorite team and ran them into the ground with his bullshit ego. Drafting Kwame and then destroying his confidence :facepalm

Yeah they won 19 games the season before, when all their vets were hurt and washed up. The actual basketball move wouldnt be to mortgage your future on 2 seasons of MJ chucking, it would be to actually rebuild once you got rid of the mid-30's veterans. Plus they got Doug Collins after that year.
Still pretty good 19 game improvement and was on pace to make the playoffs before his injury.


Bro None of those players were 38-40 years old coming off of knee surgery.

U can stay mad at your irrelevant Wizards.:lol

[JellyBean]

It's the quick decisive moves and highly effective pump fakes. Below is another example from 1991 where he gets Hawkins off his feet, and beats both Armen Gilliam and 7'7 Manute Bol to score. Jayson Williams on the Sixers bench cannot believe it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmjUpA3UVlA&t=14m7s


Alternate Angle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8fLj8E0W8w&t=6m16s


This sums it up.

[iamgine]

Wasn't inefficient Iverson making the all-star game back then. What I would like to know is how a 38-40 with multiple surgeries(Started missing open dunks at one point) could ever put up a 50 pt game in the new era.
Well anyone could have one good game. Especially with many FGA.

[ImKobe]

Why did Shawn Marion struggle to guard 38-40 years old man with no knees and tendinitis. Shawn Marion is 6'8 with Long arms and a good defender. Somebody someone from the weak era should of been overwhelmed by is new era athleticism and defense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKKhY4BGhNM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd9ayPlqCMghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd9ayPlqCMghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd9ayPlqCMg

Despite MJ's decline in athleticism, he was still better than a select few at getting separation on his shots and happened to be hot when he faced Marion, who might have been in his prime athletically, but maybe not as a defender.


Well anyone could have one good game. Especially with many FGA.


If you take a ton of shots on a bad team, you are bound to have some good/great games when your shot is falling. We're talking about MJ here, who didn't just rely purely on his athleticism to get buckets. What makes him the GOAT is his ability to do anything with the ball. He had so many moves you didn't know what he might do next and think about this, Marion was young at the time and he went up against THE GOAT, the new era kids grew up watching MJ do what he did, people respect the hell out of him and I bet a lot of the defenders felt starstruck going up against him.

MJ overall had horrible basketball seasons. He had a few highlight games, but look at how many bad ones he had in comparison. His impact on the court overall was a damn negative come to think about it, because he couldn't carry the offense half the time, but he still took the shots and him taking all the spotlight had to hurt the team chemistry.

Being a leading scorer (on below-average efficiency) on a non Playoff-team is a disgrace. Why MJ did not go on a contender still baffles me to this day... Yeah, he thought he had a position on the Wizards' FO and he tried to help them out by playing for free basically, but imagine if he went to the Lakers and had some amazing stretches in the Playoffs instead?

[Iceman#44]

Let's take a look, 2001-2002 season, before the knee injury.

WIZARDS MJ VS SHAWN MARION

2002-01-26:
Jordan: 41\4\7, 2 stl, on 17-30 Fg (win)
Marion: 15\10\0, 1 stl, 1 blk, 7-12 fg

2002-02-15:
Jordan: 22\6\4, 2 stl, 2 blk on 7-19 (GAME-WINNER)
Marion: 9\10\5, 2 stl, 4-10 fg




:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Iceman#44]

Even more. Talking about MJ Wizards pre-knee injury.


VS PAUL PIERCE

2001-11-07:
Jordan: 32\8\2, 2 stl, 12-26 fg
Pierce: 14\5\2, 2 stl, 3 blk, 6-16 fg (win)

2001-11-24:
Jordan: 17\11\6, 1 stl, 7-24 fg (win)
Pierce: 23\7\5, 1 stl, 2 blk, 7-20 fg

2001-2002 TOTALS
W-L: 1-1
JORDAN: 24.5 ppg, 9.5 rbs, 4.0 ast, .380 fg
PIERCE: 18.5 ppg, 6.0 rbs, 3.5 ast, .361 fg

Pierce in his prime just destroyed. 2-0 HTH plain and simple. JORDAN WIN.


--------------


VS LATRELL SPREWELL

2001-2002

2001-10-30:
Jordan: 19\5\6, 4 stl, 7-21 fg
Sprewell: 28\5\3, 1 stl, 9-21 fg (win)

2001-12-14:
Jordan: 19\6\6, 1stl, 2blk, 8-19 fg (win)
Sprewell: 13\0\1, 2-10 fg

2001-12-22:
Jordan: 26\1\3, 1 stl 11-22 fg (GAME-WINNER)
Sprewell: 6\4\3, 3-16 fg


2001-2002 TOTALS:
W-L: 2-1
JORDAN: 21.3 ppg, 4.0 rbs, 5.0 ast, .420 fg%
SPREWELL: 15.7 ppg, 3.0 rbs, 2.3 ast, .298 fg%

Same. Sprewell outscored, more boards, more ast, better fg%, 2-1 in HTH and also a Game-winner in Spree face. JORDAN WIN.


--------------------------

VS RAY ALLEN

2001-11-14:
Jordan: 31\4\3, 2 stl, 1 blk, 12-24 fg
Allen: 22\4\9, 1 stl, 1 blk, 6-14 fg (win)

2002-01-11:
Jordan: 22\3\3 1 stl, 10-24 fg
Allen: 27\3\4 3 stl, 11-19 fg (win)

2001-2002 TOTALS
W-L: 0-2
JORDAN: 26.5 ppg, 3.5 rbs, 3.0 ast, .458 fg
ALLEN: 24.5 ppg, 3.5 rbs, 6.5 ast, .515 fg


So, its a 1-1 in the HTH. MJ at 38 years old dropped 31 on 50% in the 1st matchup, but Allen got the best of him in the 2nd. Still, in the overall numbers MJ scored more but Allen had more ast and a better %. DRAW


----------------------

VS VINCE CARTER

2001-12-16:
Jordan: 21\4\3 3 stl, 8-21 fg (win)
Carter: 23\5\1 2 stl, 2 blk, 8-17 fg (Carter scores ZERO points in the 2nd half thanks to MJ defensive effort)

2002-02-05:
Jordan: 23\7\5 10-21 fg (win)
Carter: 29\1\2 10-23 fg


2001-2002 TOTALS
W-L: 2-0
JORDAN: 22.0 ppg, 5.5 rbs, 4.0 ast, .429 fg%
CARTER: 26.0 ppg, 3.0 rbs, 1.5 ast, .450 fg%


MJ hands down. 2 wins, in the 1st he hold VC to ZERO in the 2nd half while scoring also 21 points, in the second he put 23\7\5 with better fg%. Carter with just 1.5 ast in 2 contest.
While VC scored more overall (26 to 22 ppg), Mj had better boards and ast numbers.

----------------------

VS KOBE BRYANT

2002-02-12:
Jordan: 22\5\6 , 2stl, 1 blk 9-20 fg
Bryant: 23\11\15, 1 stl, 1 blk, 8-20 fg (win)

Kobe got this. Kobe leads LA comeback and got the win plus the triple double. But MJ still hold his own, scoring 22 with better fg%, 5 boards and 6 ast.

-----------------------

VS ALLEN IVERSON

2001-11-28:
Jordan: 30\6\7 5 stl 1 blk, 11-27 fg (win)
Iverson: 40\6\3 1 stl, 15-31 fg

2002-01-22:
Jordan: 30\8\6 2 stl 1 blk, 14-27 fg
Iverson: 34\2\5 2 stl 1 blk, 14-32 fg (win)


2001-2002 TOTALS
W-L: 1-1
JORDAN: 30.0 ppg, 7.0 rbs, 6.5 ast, .463 fg%
IVERSON: 37.0 ppg, 4.0 rbs, 4.0 ast, .460 fg%


Hard choice, but MJ got this. Jordan scored 30 a game with huge numbers in boards and ast and with a better fg%, and Iverson 37 a game where remarkable anyway.


--------------------------

VS TRACY MCGRADY

2001-12-01:
Jordan: 15\7\7 2 blk, 6-19 fg
McGrady: 26\8\2 1 blk, 10-20 fg (win)

T.Mac got this. Anyway, its fair to note that after this game Mj knee was so bad that he didnt play vs Spurs and he got drained.


-------------------

VS KEVIN GARNETT

2002-01-12:
Jordan: 35\6\4 1 stl 1 blk, 14-30 fg
Garnett: 31\6\7 1 stl, 12-21 fg (win)

2002-01-21:
Jordan: 29\14\3, 12-34 fg
Garnett: 23\6\9 1 stl 1 blk, 8-17 fg (win)

2001-2002 TOTALS
W-L: 0-2
JORDAN: 32.0 ppg, 10.0 rbs, 3.5 ast, .406 fg%
GARNETT: 27.0 ppg, 6.0 rbs, 8.0 ast, .526 fg%


I will say a draw. Mj scored more, take more boards, but KG made more ast and with a better fg%.

--------------------------

VS JERRY STACKHOUSE


2001-11-04:
Jordan: 19\8\2 1 stl, 8-18 fg
Stackhouse: 28\4\4, 12-17 fg (WIN)

2002-01-29:
Jordan: 32\5\7 2 stl, 13-30 fg
Stackhouse: 24\6\6 1 stl, 10-21 fg (WIN)

2001-2002 TOTALS
Jordan: 25.5 ppg, 6.5 rbs, 4.5 ast, .438 fg%
Stackhouse: 26.0 ppg, 5.0 ast, 5.0 ast, .579 fg%


Close one, but Stack got this.

[3ball]

It's the quick decisive moves and highly effective pump fakes. Below is another example from 1991 where he gets Hawkins off his feet, and beats both Armen Gilliam and 7'7 Manute Bol to score. Jayson Williams on the Sixers bench cannot believe it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmjUpA3UVlA&t=14m7s


Alternate Angle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8fLj8E0W8w&t=6m16s
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/de4b56cc13b3665a871101881fe9ced8.gif

[inclinerator]

rumor has it he retired because lebron was about to enter the league

[305Baller]

These are some legendary moments.

Thanks for posting.

:rockon:

[SamuraiSWISH]

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/de4b56cc13b3665a871101881fe9ced8.gif
:biggums:

@ the Alpha AF finger point.

[dubeta]

rumor has it he retired because lebron was about to enter the league

This.

You guys think it was a coincidence??

[SamuraiSWISH]

Sometimes I dream...

:bowdown:


Still garbage defense doe..
:oldlol: he makes it look like garbage.

[3ball]

:oldlol:
Sometimes even good defenses have lapses of bad D, especially against athletic guards that can finish well. I could see (for example) a prime Derrick Rose making the 80s Celtics look silly.
He'd get beat up pretty bad - the game was a lot more physical and compacted back then, compared to the wide open, spaced-out game Rose get to play today...

You see all the highlights - those Celtics loved to camp in the lane, while Parish, McHale, and Walton were accustomed to both giving and receiving punishment (from other front lines).

[3ball]

I could see (for example) a prime Derrick Rose making the 80s Celtics look silly.


Rose would also have to be able to comeback from injury...

That's another thing MJ was goat at... coming back to perform off of an injury.. can't be gun shy..


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/8c07b96ccce6e0c854731573ae9bf3c5.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/72f812b9ca0165ff04fef5ee9c71bd6c.gif

[Richesly]

MJ had dat experience and GOAT mentality still.