James Harden or Ben Wallace?

[dubeta]

Who would you rather have as your franchise cornerstone, a guy with all offense no defense (Harden), or a guy with no offense and all defense (Ben Wallace) ?

[AirTupac]

Ben Wallace because James Harden is ugly af

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Big Ben by far. He could still grab major boards on the offensive glass, could finish, extremely underrated passer and he rarely turned it over. Hardon is a HUGE negative on defense that cant do anything worth noting on it

and Hardons offense is a one trick pony. pickandroll to get 3s or drive/flail to get FTs. Thats why hes gotten shut down in every postseason hes been in

[Dresta]

Ben Wallace 2001-05 was a far more impactful player who didn't disappear in the playoffs, so him.

[CavaliersFTW]

Let's keep escalating this landslide... Big Ben and I'll throw in just for fun ISH's patented "and it's not even close" label :D

[JohnFreeman]

Big Ben

[dubeta]

Damn, any Harden supporters out there?

[inclinerator]

james harden

[salwan]

BIG BEN :rockon:

[SouBeachTalents]

A thread that's not about LeBron or Kobe? Holy shit

[Mr Exlax]

I'd actually go with Harden. I would have a head coach that would make his ass play defense though.

[ImKobe]

Ben, for what he brings to game, is more impactful, but if I had to choose between them to build my team around, I'd rather go with Harden. Only because a cornerstone would be the highest paid guy on the team (max money), and I'd have to build around him.

[Encre92]

A shooting guard who doesn't pass, chucks up inefficient shots, ruin team chemistry and needs all-star bigs to win?

Nah I'll take the other guy.

[ImKobe]

A shooting guard who doesn't pass, chucks up inefficient shots, ruin team chemistry and needs all-star bigs to win?

Nah I'll take the other guy.

I'm not a fan of Harden, but this is utter bs. You don't average 6 assists a game without passing the ball, and his usage rate isn't even that high. .221 WS/48 didn't happen by accident either. And 62%TS isn't inefficient.

Harden can obviously ball and he's a franchise player, his production(numbers) are similar to early 2000s Bean. I'm not saying he's in the same tier as Kobe, but the boy can produce.

And actually, he won the same amount of games in the POs without Howard the year prior :rolleyes:.

[MP.Trey]

Gimme Big Ben

[roffie]

a good bigman is hard to come by these days. imma take ben

[Joey3000]

Give me Harden any day over that scrub.

[RRR3]

I'm not a fan of Harden, but this is utter bs. You don't average 6 assists a game without passing the ball, and his usage rate isn't even that high. .221 WS/48 didn't happen by accident either. And 62%TS isn't inefficient.

Harden can obviously ball and he's a franchise player, his production(numbers) are similar to early 2000s Bean. I'm not saying he's in the same tier as Kobe, but the boy can produce.

And actually, he won the same amount of games in the POs without Howard the year prior :rolleyes:.
Good post. Future Repped

[Myth]

Ben Wallace. Anybody can play with a great defender, but not everybody can play with a ball dominant offensive player.

[Milbuck]

Ben Wallace...

Give Big Ben a Dwight-level perimeter player, maybe someone like Paul George...build around those two and you could have a contender.

A team built around James Harden as the first or second option will never win a championship, unless they have a top-tier all time great like Lebron or KD on the team.

[SCdac]

prime Rip Hamilton & Ben Wallace > current James Harden & Dwight Howard

[NuggetsFan]

Ben Wallace is without question the better player IMO and is one of the best defensive anchors of All-Time.

I go with Wallace if I have another cornerstone, go with Harden if I don't. You couldn't build a team around Ben Wallace. I don't like my chances landing Billups, Rip, Sheed. Be easier to get solid defenders around Harden. However if I had another player who is an All-Star or better I'll take Wallace.

[NuggetsFan]

A team built around James Harden as the first or second option will never win a championship, unless they have a top-tier all time great like Lebron or KD on the team.

What does this even mean? Nobody wins a championship unless there an All-Time great anyways :confusedshrug: Wallace wouldn't have won without an all-time deep Pistons team. Most players will never win a championship as the 1st or 2nd option, that's a blanket statement that covers pretty much every player in the league.

[NuggetsFan]

Ben Wallace. Anybody can play with a great defender, but not everybody can play with a ball dominant offensive player.

Agreed with Wallace. He does nothing but rebound and defend. Every team in the history of the game won by having a dominant offensive player tho. Harden has played with Howard, and came off the bench on his way to the finals playing with Westbrook/Durant. If your an NBA player and you can't play with All-Stars your fcked. People can play with Harden, your just not getting to win a ring with him as your ball dominant offensive player.

Harden doesn't even shot jack that much. He just chucks 3's and try's to get to the line. Can run the offense. I mean he scored 25 points this year on 16.5 shots a game. His game just pisses people off.

[qrich]

Adonal Foyle

[imdaman99]

I don't like Harden and I love Ben... but I am taking Harden. Harden is capable of playing defense, albeit not at some shutdown level. Big Ben was not capable of playing offense outside of putback dunks or alley oops. It's one of the reasons I couldn't stand Tyson Chandler here in NYC. He was not nearly as good as Ben on D but equally as bad on offense.

Harden is a very good player with potential as a franchise player. I know he is not a favorite here on these boards, but the potential is there. It wasn't too long ago where everyone was laughing at OKC for trading the wrong guy :coleman:

Easier to build around a potential star than a role player, even though he's among the greatest role players of all time.

[TheReal Kendall]

I gotta go with offense. You need points to win. You gonna trust Ben with 5 seconds left on the clock and down by 2?

[gasolina]

Prime Ben would be even better with the rules today. He wasn't really much of an on ball defender (that was Rasheed's job) but his speed makes him perfect to guard against P&R's. He won't even need that damn verticality rule to terrorize the paint.

[SCdac]

I don't like Harden and I love Ben... but I am taking Harden. Harden is capable of playing defense, albeit not at some shutdown level. Big Ben was not capable of playing offense outside of putback dunks or alley oops. It's one of the reasons I couldn't stand Tyson Chandler here in NYC. He was not nearly as good as Ben on D but equally as bad on offense.

Harden is a very good player with potential as a franchise player. I know he is not a favorite here on these boards, but the potential is there. It wasn't too long ago where everyone was laughing at OKC for trading the wrong guy :coleman:

Easier to build around a potential star than a role player, even though he's among the greatest role players of all time.

I think that was before the Rockets under Harden got ousted in the first round 2 seasons in a row w/ Harden shooting terribly in both series (.39 FG% and .38 FG%, respectively). Case in point, Harden still has alot to prove and Wallace, while not perfectly well rounded, has proven himself to be a key cog on Finals teams and a 4x Defensive Player of the Year. You harp on Chandler but keep in mind he was also a big part of the reason Mavs finally won a championship. There is something to be said about an defensively elite, shot blocking centers or big men in general. Michael Redd and Gilbert Arenas types get more attention with their scoring but can equally become busts.

[Cali Syndicate]

prime Rip Hamilton & Ben Wallace > current James Harden & Dwight Howard

Not true.
I'd take Ben over harden in this scenario tho.

[04mzwach]

Give me the guy who made the all star game on his defense alone

[JohnMax]

Give me the guy who made the all star game on his defense alone


http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/896/159/hibbertchug_original.gif

[Le Shaqtus]

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/896/159/hibbertchug_original.gif

Too bad that ain't Michael's secret stuff, Hibbert could have used that shit.

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Too bad that ain't Michael's secret stuff, Hibbert could have used that shit.

I hate doing this before pick up games. I always get the urge to pee right after :lol

[miles berg]

Ben Wallace. The guy controlled half of the court.

[Eric Cartman]

One is the anchor of one of the best defenses of all time beating the kobe/shaq lead lakers the finals and taking the spurs to seven games in the next finals.

Or Harden, a high usage sg with no midrange game that plays little defense; teams lead by him are at best second round teams.

[GimmeThat]

both are great candidates as team captain

which means they are players team adjusts to I suppose.

[KrizMiz]

Ben for sure

[Lebron23]

Big Ben Wallace

[gcvbcat]

ben wallace.

plus, fro beat beard anytime.