the alley oop is the longest ongoing illegal play in nba history

[kennethgriffin]

as you can see from these clips. the ball sometimes goes in the basket

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrrhCY9R0rU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zWrOf6eGR0


an offensive player can touch the ball on the way down.

but a defensive player cant touch the ball on the way down.

whats the difference between a lob and a shot? both are headed towards the rim. is it due to the style of throw? well i've seen players throw lobs in a shooting motion. and ive seen players shoot with a lobbing motion


sure some alley oops are obviously passes. and not anywhere near the rim. but allot are. and theyre offensive goal tending

ive seen defensive players grab balls out of the air that had absolutely no chance of going in. but they were called for goal tending cause it was on the way down.

defensive players have to wait for the ball to pass below the rim. but offensive players dont?


its the longest ongoing loop hole in nba history.


and yes i've seen some alley oops be called for goal tending. but theyre extremely rare. the ball has to be basically INSIDE the rim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kedqIqzfRso

so why isnt goaltending for defenders only on touching balls inside the rim?

shouldnt the ball be in play to be blocked anywhere outside of the rim if thats the rules for offensive goaltending?

shouldnt it be equal?

:confusedshrug:


if so then shaq would have hundreds more blocks in his career

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrEXc0nRPOY

what if shaq was going for an alley oop instead of a block? clean play right?

exactly

[ralph_i_el]

:facepalm dear god please give me the strength to resist the trollbait

[kennethgriffin]

:facepalm dear god please give me the strength to resist the trollbait


so explain why its ok for shaq to touch a ball headed towards the rim on the way down if hes on offense?

but because hes on defense its goal tending

and its not trolling. why would i be promoting shaq unless it was an honest question?

:confusedshrug:

if an offensive playing throws an alley oop towards the rim. if it has anywhere NEAR a chance of hitting the rim or backboard. then no other offensive player should be allowed to touch the ball PERIOD

[dr.hee]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2817947/billbored.gif

[TylerOO]

Whats your point? You want them taken out of the game?

[Nuff Said]

Can we start nominating for bans? White boy is trippin hard now.

[kennethgriffin]

Whats your point? You want them taken out of the game?


na... lets just keep this ongoing major flaw in the rule book cause kids think alley oops are kewl LOL

im a kobe fan. and hes had hundreds of them throughout his career. so its obvious i'm not doing this as some kind of troll bait or to prop up kobe

people should take their heads out of the sand and wake up

[SCdac]

after a certain amount of red bars should be eligible for ban however temporary or permanent

[dubeta]

Fail thread

2/7

[kennethgriffin]

after a certain amount of red bars should be eligible for ban however temporary or permanent

i actually had around 7 or 8 red bars last month. people been repping me allot lately for some reason

hows about somebody try and argue my point? instead of just complaining that i'm exposing one of basketballs biggest flaws and its getting everyones panties all twisted

:facepalm :facepalm

[ralph_i_el]

Offensive goaltending is only if the ball is in the cylinder, unlike defensive goaltending. 99% of alleyoops are caught before the ball is in the cylinder. Please just gtfo. I'm glad mods can ban now. Just a matter of time before you really cross the line and catch a banhammer.


We get it, you want attention. Here it is. I'm paying attention to you. Go write about it in your diary with frobe on the cover.

[dr.hee]

i actually had around 7 or 8 red bars last month. people been repping me allot lately for some reason

hows about somebody try and argue my point? instead of just complaining that i'm exposing one of basketballs biggest flaws and its getting everyones panties all twisted

:facepalm :facepalm

The rules of basketball, just like any game throughout human history, are arbitrarily made up by people. Other people play these games. If you don't like the game of basketball, just invent your own brand of throwing a ball into a basket without alley oops being allowed, call it fakkitball and make up your own international association to organize tournaments for other fakkits.

Deal?

[Rake2204]

I believe this would be a helpful reference for this particular discussion. It addresses many of the questions & concerns initially posted in the original thread: http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_11.html?nav=ArticleList

I would recommend paying particular attention to the aspects regarding what constitutes a field goal, in addition to the consideration as to whether a ball is deemed to have a legitimate chance of going through the hoop.

[Dr Hawk]

an offensive player can touch the ball on the way down.

but a defensive player cant touch the ball on the way down.

I don't think I have ever seen a defensive player get called for touching the ball on its way down when trying to stop an alley oop. Usually when someone is trying to throw an alley oop, it is pretty clear what is he actually doing, so referees don't call the goaltending.

This very afternoon, USA team tried some alley oops that were contested by the other team and referees obviously let that happen.

[kennethgriffin]

Offensive goaltending is only if the ball is in the cylinder, unlike defensive goaltending. 99% of alleyoops are caught before the ball is in the cylinder. Please just gtfo. I'm glad mods can ban now. Just a matter of time before you really cross the line and catch a banhammer.


We get it, you want attention. Here it is. I'm paying attention to you. Go write about it in your diary with frobe on the cover.

so you admit its an unfair advantage and loop hole?

[kennethgriffin]

I don't think I have ever seen a defensive player get called for touching the ball on its way down when trying to stop an alley oop. Usually when someone is trying to throw an alley oop, it is pretty clear what is he actually doing, so referees don't call the goaltending.

This very afternoon, USA team tried some alley oops that were contested by the other team and referees obviously let that happen.


another loop hole.. if a guy throws the alley oop. and nobody on the offensive team goes up to try and catch it. but the defensive player blocks the alley oop. then suddenly the blocked "pass" turns into a goal tended "shot"

:lol

such a dumb rule its not even funny



i'l say it again. if a guys throwing a ball towards the rim or backboard. then whos to decide whether its a pass or shot. ive seen kobe throw lobs to gasol in a shooting motion... shit some of them were shots. but gasol can grab it out of thin air. nobody else can


why dont all players throw ally oops in a shooting motion then? refs would call all blocked alley oops as goal tending LOL

[Rake2204]

another loop hole.. if a guy throws the alley oop. and nobody on the offensive team goes up to try and catch it. but the defensive player blocks the alley oop. then suddenly the blocked "pass" turns into a goal tended "shot"

:lol

such a dumb rule its not even funny



i'l say it again. if a guys throwing a ball towards the rim or backboard. then whos to decide whether its a pass or shot. ive seen kobe throw lobs to gasol in a shooting motion... shit some of them were shots. but gasol can grab it out of thin air. nobody else can


why dont all players throw ally oops in a shooting motion then? refs would call all blocked alley oops as goal tending LOLOnce again, I believe it may be beneficial to review the official NBA rules regarding goaltending. They can be found here: http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_11.html?nav=ArticleList

I would recommend paying particular attention to the aspects regarding what constitutes a field goal, in addition to the consideration as to whether a ball is deemed to have a legitimate chance of going through the hoop.

Admittedly, the alley-oops that appear to be shots can be tough to decipher but even then, there are often small hints and tells that help an official to see the play as the pass that it is instead of being a shot. Most often, lobs that feature the general appearance of a shot will have a trajectory that would likely have zero chance of going into the hoop, not to mention a slight short-arm from the passer or a verbal cue (the last of which is tough to deduce from our living rooms). If an official deems a play to be a pass and/or the ball appears to have zero chance of going into the hoop on its own, a teammate (or defender) can legally make a play.

As for why all players do not throw alley-oops like they were shooting jumpshots - the trajectory would be much slower, higher, and deliberate. There's a time & place when those lobs may make sense (even though oftentimes they truly appear to be just very bad jumpshots that never had a chance of hitting the rim) but generally speaking, it would typically not be to a passer's advantage.

All that said, a couple of the links you posted make for unique situations the rare times they occur and I'd understand the confusion and potential difficulty associated with trying to correctly officiate such plays. Kenyon Martin also pulled off an accidental three in that manner (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8NbhsIzYm0#t=0m30s). In each of those instances, the intent was pass but something went wrong along the way, leading the ball to have a very realistic chance of going into the hoop. Typically, the small amount of arc, alongside velocity & aim, leave alley-oop passes very little chance of going in... because they're passes.

[SpanishACB]

the point is valid

but the NBA goes as far as changing the rules of the game to put on a better TV show so it's not exactly a loophole it's more like working as intended, even if it's lame from a purely sports perspective

[no pun intended]

Poor T-mac.

[Kblaze8855]

It isnt a loop hole...its the rule. Being fair or not has nothing to do with it.

And the longest ongoing illegal play is the moving screen followed by the three step layup.

[stax]

Poor T-mac.

T-mac has seen some shit.

[kennethgriffin]

Once again, I believe it may be beneficial to review the official NBA rules regarding goaltending. They can be found here: http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_11.html?nav=ArticleList

I would recommend paying particular attention to the aspects regarding what constitutes a field goal, in addition to the consideration as to whether a ball is deemed to have a legitimate chance of going through the hoop.

Admittedly, the alley-oops that appear to be shots can be tough to decipher but even then, there are often small hints and tells that help an official to see the play as the pass that it is instead of being a shot. Most often, lobs that feature the general appearance of a shot will have a trajectory that would likely have zero chance of going into the hoop, not to mention a slight short-arm from the passer or a verbal cue (the last of which is tough to deduce from our living rooms).

If an official deems a play to be a pass and/or the ball appears to have zero chance of going into the hoop on its own, a teammate can legally make a play.

As for why all players do not throw alley-oops like they were shooting jumpshots - the trajectory would be much slower, higher, and deliberate. There's a time & place when those lobs may make sense (even though oftentimes they truly appear to be just very bad jumpshots that never had a chance of hitting the rim) but generally speaking, it would typically not be to a passer's advantage.

too much grey area for me

i like absolutes

i don't like "guessing" on a refs behalf

i don't like unfair advantages


i know the rules. i'm saying theyre bullshit

[CJ Mustard]

Poor T-mac.
:oldlol: He had the same reaction when both lobs went in the basket.

[f0und]

you know what amazes me about kenny g? not only does he sit around and think deeply about the dumbest *hit, he thinks its a good idea to post about it.

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt."

- Mark Twain

[kennethgriffin]

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8NbhsIzYm0#t=0m30s)


this should have been goal tending too

[no pun intended]

:oldlol: He had the same reaction when both lobs went in the basket.
kennethgriffin=tmac confirmed

[Marchesk]

Some of the charge attempts I've seen should be illegal. Ex: O player coming from the top of the key - at a high speed/momentum meeting a player who was a half a second ago on the left/right lower block to the top of the semi-circle.. making no play at the ball and just resorting for the charge.. IMO is very dangerous (especially for the offensive player).

I hate that more than just about anything other than flopping.

http://photocdn.sohu.com/20121004/Img354316544.jpg

[kennethgriffin]

kennethgriffin=tmac confirmed

i still don't get the joke

someone link me? is this in reference to tmac having a problem with lob officiating? or is there a poster on ish who made a thread like this before named tmac

sorry guys i'm not on here as much as some of you

[Rake2204]

Some of the charge attempts I've seen should be illegal. Ex: O player coming from the top of the key - at a high speed/momentum meeting a player who was a half a second ago on the left/right lower block to the top of the semi-circle.. making no play at the ball and just resorting for the charge.. IMO is very dangerous (especially for the offensive player).Might you have a video example? If a defensive player is not able to correctly establish proper position then I agree, it should be illegal.

However, if a defensive player properly gets to a position first so as to impede an offensive player's forward progress, only to have that offensive player continue charging through, then I believe the play should remain legal. I do not believe a defender is obligated to always make a play on the ball. Sometimes, keeping an offensive player between oneself and the basket is effective enough. In fact, that is the basis of most defenses.

From what I've seen, I agree with official's interpretations of the charge/block ruling. That's not to say they don't make mistakes (i.e. bad calls), because they do. And that's not to say players sometimes deceive as a means of wrongfully drawing a call in their favor but generally speaking, I feel the system makes sense in this regard.

Here's a helpful rundown of what is and what is not allowed in a charge/block scenario: http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_c.html?nav=ArticleList. If we are referring to the situation of a defender attempting to establish position but not doing so in a timely enough manner to allow the offensive player to stop and/or change direction, then I surely believe that should be a block, but I still believe a defender has a right to attempt to get to that spot first.

[no pun intended]

i still don't get the joke

someone link me? is this in reference to tmac having a problem with lob officiating? or is there a poster on ish who made a thread like this before named tmac

sorry guys i'm not on here as much as some of you
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=250827

[bluechox2]

real rule of the alley oop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Q4zjIzj0nHM#t=73

[kennethgriffin]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=250827

damn i didn't even realize tmac was on the floor for either

guess thats just how his career went after orlando

[Rake2204]

real rule of the alley oop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Q4zjIzj0nHM#t=73As goofy as that movie was (and intended to be) I always appreciated their relative attention to ABA detail. They could have taken the easy way out and had super knockoff Spurs jerseys and black & white officials uniforms but someone did a very nice job there. Still, it made it that much weirder to see breakaway rims used. Authentic basket stanchions of that era combined with modern breakaways really messed with my OCD, even for a dumb comedy.

[bdreason]

This guy just watched Semi-Pro for the first time.