Props to Pau Gasol thread...

[stalkerforlife]

Easily the best player in the FIBA tournament so far. It seems as though playing for his country, with his brother and friends, has revitalized Pau. Pau started to play like a bitch in the NBA, like he normally does when things don't go his way in life, but he's the MVP of this FIBA tournament and no one can take that away from him.

I hope Spain beats team USA.

[Hey Yo]

There was one???



http://www.morethings.com/fan/bill_murray/stripes/bill_murray-stripes1981-1320.jpg

[JT123]

I thought that for once a Kobe stan was about to thank Pau for Kobe's last 2 rings. I should have known better. :facepalm

[kennethgriffin]

gasol always plays way better with international rules and competition

[kennethgriffin]

I thought that for once a Kobe stan was about to thank Pau for Kobe's last 2 rings. I should have known better. :facepalm

gasol was needed. but hes still a bottom 5 lowest ranked 2nd option in championship history

[navy]

Pau Gasol always been mad underrated. How many other players could beat out Kobe in team winshares?

[305Baller]

Easily the best player in the FIBA tournament so far. It seems as though playing for his country, with his brother and friends, has revitalized Pau. Pau started to play like a bitch in the NBA, like he normally does when things don't go his way in life, but he's the MVP of this FIBA tournament and no one can take that away from him.

I hope Spain beats team USA.

http://boscosgrindhouse.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/cage-gifs-monster.gif

[JT123]

gasol was needed. but hes still a bottom 5 lowest ranked 2nd option in championship history
:facepalm If that is the case, 2013 Wade is a bottom 3 lowest ranked 2nd option. Wade averaged less than 16 ppg in the 2013 playoffs. Gasol was NEVER that bad in 09 or 10. :no:

[stalkerforlife]

Pau Gasol always been mad underrated. How many other players could beat out Kobe in team winshares?

I have no clue what that means and neither do you.

It is an arbitrary stat made up by a stat geek to seek out drones, such as yourself, to worship.

[navy]

I have no clue what that means and neither do you.

It is an arbitrary stat made up by a stat geek to seek out drones, such as yourself, to worship.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html

:bowdown:

[fpliii]

I have no clue what that means and neither do you.

It is an arbitrary stat made up by a stat geek to seek out drones, such as yourself, to worship.
It's a rubbish stat, just like PER. Both are just linear weight summations from box scores, that provide no new information.

Hollinger (PER) and Oliver (win shares) are both smart guys, but they tell us nothing about what actually went on that we can't ascertain from a box score (and both guys have used more sophisticated metrics in their work for teams; these are simplistic stats for public consumption).

RAPM is a much better metric (and one that Front Offices actually use and value), based on play-by-plays, and actually derived from scoring margin (which is the point of the game). During their three Finals runs (both guys were major contributors, so they're somewhat comparable; inb4 some fool tries to mention a role player's RAPM in a failed attempt to discredit the stat):

08: Kobe 4.51 Pau 3.48
09: Kobe 5.11 Pau 2.64
10: Kobe 4.47 Pau 1.13

BTW stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com is not a reliable source for RAPM...it uses box score elements to create a blended metric. The following are reliable sources:

http://www.gotbuckets.com/ (97-00)
http://ascreamingcomesacrossthecourt.blogspot.com/ (08-14)
https://sites.google.com/site/rapmstats/ (only 03-07, since 01 and 02 have incomplete datasets; use GotBuckets for later seasons)

[kennethgriffin]

:facepalm If that is the case, 2013 Wade is a bottom 3 lowest ranked 2nd option. Wade averaged less than 16 ppg in the 2013 playoffs. Gasol was NEVER that bad in 09 or 10. :no:
its not always about production over a span of 4-7 games

i go based on the level the player cemented historically

thats more telling of the help one guy had. cause anyone can just show up for a few games. and sometimes that player is good only cause theyre on the court with that other #1 guy


lets look at championship second options out of top 10 players all time ( assuming lebron eventually joins this group )

shall we?


Jordan: Pippen = top 25 all time
kareem: magicoscar = top 5 all time, top 12 all time
russell: havlicek,cousy = top 20 all time, top 25 all time
wilt: west, greer = top 13 all time, top 50 all time
magic: kareem, worthy = top 3 all time, top 50 all time
shaq: kobe = top 5 all time
bird: mchale = top 30 all time
duncan: robinson, parker, ginobili = top 25 all time, top 50 all time, top 60 all time
lebron: wade = top 30 all time



and then theres...

Kobe: Pau = top 90-100 all time



notice a difference?

[fpliii]

its not always about production over a span of 4-7 games

i go based on the level the player cemented historically

thats more telling of the help one guy had. cause anyone can just show up for a few games. and sometimes that player is good only cause theyre on the court with that other #1 guy


lets look at championship second options out of top 10 players all time ( assuming lebron eventually joins this group )

shall we?


Jordan: Pippen = top 25 all time
kareem: magicoscar = top 5 all time, top 12 all time
russell: havlicek,cousy = top 20 all time, top 25 all time
wilt: west, greer = top 13 all time, top 50 all time
magic: kareem, worthy = top 3 all time, top 50 all time
shaq: kobe = top 5 all time
bird: mchale = top 30 all time
duncan: robinson, parker, ginobili = top 25 all time, top 50 all time, top 60 all time
lebron: wade = top 30 all time



and then theres...

Kobe: Pau = top 90-100 all time



notice a difference?
McHale is top 30 all-time, and Parker is top 50 all-time?

Don't get me wrong griff, I agree with your larger point. But I think you're overrating those two guys a bit.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

It's a rubbish stat, just like PER. Both are just linear weight summations from box scores, that provide no new information.

Hollinger (PER) and Oliver (win shares) are both smart guys, but they tell us nothing about what actually went on that we can't ascertain from a box score (and both guys have used more sophisticated metrics in their work for teams; these are simplistic stats for public consumption).

RAPM is a much better metric (and one that Front Offices actually use and value), based on play-by-plays, and actually derived from scoring margin (which is the point of the game). During their three Finals runs (both guys were major contributors, so they're somewhat comparable; inb4 some fool tries to mention a role player's RAPM in a failed attempt to discredit the stat):

08: Kobe 4.51 Pau 3.48
09: Kobe 5.11 Pau 2.64
10: Kobe 4.47 Pau 1.13

BTW stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com is not a reliable source for RAPM...it uses box score elements to create a blended metric. The following are reliable sources:

http://www.gotbuckets.com/ (97-00)
http://ascreamingcomesacrossthecourt.blogspot.com/ (08-14)
https://sites.google.com/site/rapmstats/ (only 03-07, since 01 and 02 have incomplete datasets; use GotBuckets for later seasons)

Great post, fpliii.

I'm one of those that uses PER (usually in a H2H comparison where guys play similar roles), but RAPM, from what I gather, seems to be far more in-depth.

Also, is there a reason bball-ref doesn't have it mentioned in their glossary?

[sportjames23]

I thought that for once a Kobe stan was about to thank Pau for Kobe's last 2 rings. I should have known better. :facepalm


I know, right? That'd be like a Lebron stan thanking Bosh and Ray Ray for his last ring. Crazy, ain't it? :hammerhead:

[dubeta]

Pau, best PF of the last decade no question

[SouBeachTalents]

Pau, best PF of the last decade no question

:biggums:

[MVBallin2K]

:facepalm If that is the case, 2013 Wade is a bottom 3 lowest ranked 2nd option. Wade averaged less than 16 ppg in the 2013 playoffs. Gasol was NEVER that bad in 09 or 10. :no:

While I do think Gasol is being underrated by what you were responding to, Gasol never won a ring on his own team. Wade won a ring before Bron came to the Heat as the first option on the team.

I don't think Gasol carried Kobe at all but I also don't think Kobe carried Gasol. The team itself blended together and won the championship. You take big pieces of the team out and they don't win. Same with the Heat, same with the Spurs. No one man can win or carry a team to a championship. MJ even had Pippen. Dirk is the closest you can get in modern times and he had a lot of good pieces surrounding him that stepped up.

All this being said, Gasol is going to come into his own on the Bulls. An offesnse that takes advantage of his passing and post ability is just what he needs. Happy for him finding a home even if it's not LA.

[fpliii]

Great post, fpliii.

I'm one of those that uses PER (usually in H2H comparisons with guys playing a similar role), but RAPM, from what I gather, seems to be far more indepth.

Is there a reason bball-ref doesn't have it listed?
PER is fine if you compare guys in similar roles I guess...my main issue is that not everything is recorded in the box score.

It's a bit advanced for B-R. The guys on the blog (well, the old writers) are familiar with it, and some have calculated their own variants of APM (similar to RAPM, but using a different regression technique; APM has been around since I think 01, the Mavs hired its creator soon after he put it together). The main issue being that it's not something mainsteam yet, so there's not as much demand at the moment. ESPN is using RPM (which is similar to xRAPM, or the version on stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com, since it uses play-by-play data in addition to box score elements), and has slowly been mentioning it in articles.

It's not really something that's approachable though by the general public, since it's not very easily explained. The process of calculation is very robust:

1) parse out 10-man (5 on each team) lineups from play-by-plays, including columns for scoring margin and number of possessions
2) create a massive design matrix filled with 1's (home team), -1's (away team), and 0's (not in that lineup), for the analysis
3) perform ridge regression (modified version of ordinary least squares when the number of columns in the design matrix != the number of rows) once to get the results, and a second time (changing the -1's to 1's) to get the off/def split number, and combine the results to get offensive and defensive RAPM

If you incorporate results from previous seasons as the center (as opposed to zeros), it improves the estimates (the goal being to isolate a player's impact on scoring margin, by removing the effects of his teammates and opponent lineups faced).

I do like it a lot, but again with the caveat that you can't compare players if their roles aren't similar.

[stalkerforlife]

It's a rubbish stat, just like PER. Both are just linear weight summations from box scores, that provide no new information.

Hollinger (PER) and Oliver (win shares) are both smart guys, but they tell us nothing about what actually went on that we can't ascertain from a box score (and both guys have used more sophisticated metrics in their work for teams; these are simplistic stats for public consumption).

RAPM is a much better metric (and one that Front Offices actually use and value), based on play-by-plays, and actually derived from scoring margin (which is the point of the game). During their three Finals runs (both guys were major contributors, so they're somewhat comparable; inb4 some fool tries to mention a role player's RAPM in a failed attempt to discredit the stat):

08: Kobe 4.51 Pau 3.48
09: Kobe 5.11 Pau 2.64
10: Kobe 4.47 Pau 1.13

BTW stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com is not a reliable source for RAPM...it uses box score elements to create a blended metric. The following are reliable sources:

http://www.gotbuckets.com/ (97-00)
http://ascreamingcomesacrossthecourt.blogspot.com/ (08-14)
https://sites.google.com/site/rapmstats/ (only 03-07, since 01 and 02 have incomplete datasets; use GotBuckets for later seasons)

Thanks for trying to help an old man out, but you know us old men and our "eye test" evaluations.

I'm certainly not ignorant enough to dismiss stats completely, though. I just don't think they tell enough of the story, simply because there are way too many variables. Stats, along with the eye test, along with a lot of context, is seemingly the way to go.

[kennethgriffin]

McHale is top 30 all-time, and Parker is top 50 all-time?

Don't get me wrong griff, I agree with your larger point. But I think you're overrating those two guys a bit.

well maybe mchale is more around top 40
but
some people think mchale was the hardest post player to guard.

even barkley said it

i mean in 1987 mchale averaged 26ppg on 60%

hes a top 5 power forward ever

he was a 1st team all nba'r and 1st team all defender

regularly on the all defensive team while putting up around 20ppg

he's high up there in my book


and yeah parker might be more around top 60 with ginobili

hes been the leader in mvp shares for the last 2 spurs title teams

he is a legit finals mvp

he might not be an official resume top 50 player ever. but hes always been snubbed and overlooked cause people in the US hate the french


honestly if the media voted for the MVP the way they did when steve nash won it. then tony parker would have gotten it atleast once by now

the spurs almost always have the best record. he runs the show.

but owell..



honestly other than chris paul. whos been a better PG in the nba since 2007. parker might have a case for best IMO

[dubeta]

:biggums:

2 rings in that time frame

Led his team in win shares in 2010 championship

20/11 on 52% FG

Perfected the triangle to team success

[SouBeachTalents]

2 rings in that time frame

Led his team in win shares in 2010 championship

20/11 on 52% FG

Perfected the triangle to team success

So Gasol was better than Dirk?

[fpliii]

Thanks for trying to help an old man out, but you know us old men and our "eye test" evaluations.

I'm certainly not ignorant enough to dismiss stats completely, though. I just don't think they tell enough of the story, simply because there are way too many variables. Stats, along with the eye test, along with a lot of context, is seemingly the way to go.
Don't get me wrong, I prefer the eye test 100%, but I can't watch every game played by every player on every team every season.

I don't consider the box score much at all when evaluating players (though the one thing I do like related to box scores are shooting charts...pretty cool to see how effective guys are from different parts of the court). I trust my eyes the most, and legitimate impact metrics (RAPM, with/without margin, team ORtg/DRtg) in the absence of a huge number of games watched.

[stalkerforlife]

Pau, best PF of the last decade no question

:roll:

You're by far the funniest Bran stan on this site. :applause:

[MrC1991]

http://boscosgrindhouse.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/cage-gifs-monster.gif

I laughed way to hard at this. :lol

[04mzwach]

Dieng is playing like a pimp also. :bowdown:

[fpliii]

well maybe mchale is more around top 40
but
some people think mchale was the hardest post player to guard.

even barkley said it

i mean in 1987 mchale averaged 26ppg on 60%

hes a top 5 power forward ever

he was a 1st team all nba'r and 1st team all defender

regularly on the all defensive team while putting up around 20ppg

he's high up there in my book


and yeah parker might be more around top 60 with ginobili

hes been the leader in mvp shares for the last 2 spurs title teams

he is a legit finals mvp

he might not be an official resume top 50 player ever. but hes always been snubbed and overlooked cause people in the US hate the french


honestly if the media voted for the MVP the way they did when steve nash won it. then tony parker would have gotten it atleast once by now

the spurs almost always have the best record. he runs the show.

but owell..



honestly other than chris paul. whos been a better PG in the nba since 2007. parker might have a case for best IMO
Top 5 PF ever?

Duncan, KG, Dirk, Barkley, Malone in some order are peoples' top 5s (likely with Pettit in there as well, but I didn't get to watch him live obviously).

My main issue with McHale is that he wasn't a first option throughout his career. Hard to compare him to players who were.

My issue with Parker is that I never once thought he was better than Ginobili or Duncan in their primes. I also don't buy the best PG in the league thing. From watching him, CP3, Nash, Westbrook, healthy Rose, and now Curry as well have all been better at one point or another since 07. Call me a hater, but I think he's a product of Pop and the Spurs' system.

[SpecialQue]

Pau raping chumps worldwide. I love this guy. :bowdown:

[navy]

Pau raping chumps worldwide. I love this guy. :bowdown:
Lakers let him walk cheap. :coleman:

[navy]

Top 5 PF ever?

Duncan, KG, Dirk, Barkley, Malone in some order are peoples' top 5s (likely with Pettit in there as well, but I didn't get to watch him live obviously).

My main issue with McHale is that he wasn't a first option throughout his career. Hard to compare him to players who were.

My issue with Parker is that I never once thought he was better than Ginobili or Duncan in their primes. I also don't buy the best PG in the league thing. From watching him, CP3, Nash, Westbrook, healthy Rose, and now Curry as well have all been better at one point or another since 07. Call me a hater, but I think he's a product of Pop and the Spurs' system.
Dude scored 26 points on 60% shooting. I mean using that logic shouldnt bird be penalied for playing on such staked teams? :confusedshrug:

[kennethgriffin]

Pau, best PF of the last decade no question

give me any of these players in their prime over pau gasol


- duncan 25/13/4
- garnett 24/14/5
- dirk 26/10/3
- love 26/13/4
- Aldridge 23/11/3
- Bosh 24/11/2
- Webber 24/10/5
- Amare 26/9/2
- Brand 25/10/3
- Jermaine 24/9/2
- Jamison 25/9/2



vs gasols prime

- 20/9/3

:roll:

[fpliii]

Dude scored 26 points on 60% shooting. I mean using that logic shouldnt bird be penalied for playing on such staked teams? :confusedshrug:
I don't believe in penalizing players for playing on stacked teams. All that matters to me is their level of play.

Anyhow, I haven't done the research, but I'd be interested to see how his scoring changed with and without Bird. When you have arguably the GOAT offensive player on the court with you, you're going to get a lot of easy buckets.

[SpecialQue]

give me any of these players in their prime over pau gasol


- duncan 25/13/4
- garnett 24/14/5
- dirk 26/10/3
- love 26/13/4
- Aldridge 23/11/3
- Bosh 24/11/2
- Webber 24/10/5
- Amare 26/9/2
- Brand 25/10/3
- Jermaine 24/9/2
- Jamison 25/9/2



vs gasols prime

- 20/9/3

:roll:

Stick your **** up your ass you mother****ing worthless **********.

[stalkerforlife]

If i'm not mistaken, Mchale came off the bench for a majority of his career.

Great, great player. It's just hard for me to rank him ahead of guys like KG, Dirk, Duncan, Malone, Barkley, etc. Actually, it is impossible for me to do such a thing.

[Hey Yo]

honestly if the media voted for the MVP the way they did when steve nash won it. then tony parker would have gotten it atleast once by now
Parker didn't turn the Spurs around like Nash did the Suns.

Suns won 29 games the year before Nash arrived. They then go onto to win 62 games and the best record in the league.

Following year, they lose Amare for the season and they still won 54 games.

Not sure why you Kobe stans can't comprehend this.

[kennethgriffin]

If i'm not mistaken, Mchale came off the bench for a majority of his career.

Great, great player. It's just hard for me to rank him ahead of guys like KG, Dirk, Duncan, Malone, Barkley, etc. Actually, it is impossible for me to do such a thing.


i wouldnt knock mchale for coming off the bench for the first bit of his career

although Bird was listed at SF. he was at 6-10 the celtics PF

and maxwell was starting. but he was the more traditional SF in the lineup

mchale was still putting up 18 ppg even coming off the bench

he was still thr 2nd/3rd best player on the team when parish was there averaging 19-20 points


but who started made absolutely no difference. it was more of a ginobili type 6th man ( with way better stats )


mchale was just coming off the bench for initial matchup purposes.


which is why he was run away 6th man of the year twice

[Nowitness]

and yeah parker might be more around top 60 with ginobili

hes been the leader in mvp shares for the last 2 spurs title teams

he is a legit finals mvp

he might not be an official resume top 50 player ever. but hes always been snubbed and overlooked cause people in the US hate the french


honestly if the media voted for the MVP the way they did when steve nash won it. then tony parker would have gotten it atleast once by now

the spurs almost always have the best record. he runs the show.

but owell..



honestly other than chris paul. whos been a better PG in the nba since 2007. parker might have a case for best IMO

parker was never better than manu or duncan at any point in his career.

i can tell you wrote this post because of your love for kobe. and probably a hate for anyone else. even the players that helped bring your team rings.

what a piece of shit

oh. by the way/ who are the 5 worst second options ever?

[kennethgriffin]

parker was never better than manu or duncan at any point in his career.

i can tell you wrote this post because of your love for kobe. and probably a hate for anyone else. even the players that helped bring your team rings.

what a piece of shit

oh. by the way/ who are the 5 worst second options ever?


:roll:

[kennethgriffin]

oh. by the way/ who are the 5 worst second options ever?

the only HOF'rs i'd say possibly had lower ranked 2nd guys in title history are

rich barry
bill walton
hakeem olajuwon
and youl like this one..... dirk nowitzki



only difference is kobe did it with gasoft twice.. these other guys got just 1 with those 2nd options

[JT123]

I know, right? That'd be like a Lebron stan thanking Bosh and Ray Ray for his last ring. Crazy, ain't it? :hammerhead:
It's not the same and you know it. :oldlol: Gasol was elite throughout the entirety of the Lakers 2009 and 2010 playoff runs.
Bosh and Ray were elite for ONE PLAY of Miami's 2013 playoff run. They then followed this up by going SCORELESS in game 7 of the Finals! :facepalm

[T_L_P]

the only HOF'rs i'd say possibly had lower ranked 2nd guys in title history are

rich barry
bill walton
hakeem olajuwon
and youl like this one..... dirk nowitzki



only difference is kobe did it with gasoft twice.. these other guys got just 1 with those 2nd options

Wait, you seriously think 03 Parker was better than 09/10 Gasol? :roll:

[T_L_P]

Oh, it's just kenneth ranking them based on where they stand alltime; not what they actually contributed.

[robert de niro]

kenneth always doing mental gymnastics to discredit gasol it's so ****ing hilarious :lol

[JT123]

Wait, you seriously think 03 Parker was better than 09/10 Gasol? :roll:
Last time I saw you had 2 red bars, now you have 2 green? :biggums:
What alt have you been repping yourself with?! :crazysam:

[Nowitness]

Wait, you seriously think 03 Parker was better than 09/10 Gasol? :roll:

b2b gasol is beter than any version of parker. let alone the shittiest version.

dude fails so bad. :facepalm

[kennethgriffin]

Wait, you seriously think 03 Parker was better than 09/10 Gasol? :roll:


try paying attention TLP. if this was about lowest ranked 2nd option single playoff finals stats. then you might have a point

but again you totally skipped the entire point of the subject


i said "lowest all time ranking of the PLAYER" dumby


parker is a 4 time champ, finals mvp, leader in MVP shares for 2 of his 4 titles

pau gasol never recieved a single last place vote in his life.

nore has gasol ever lead a team to even a single playoff victory

parkers lead teams to titles. hes top 60 all time minimum

gasol is barely top 100

[kennethgriffin]

b2b gasol is beter than any version of parker. let alone the shittiest version.

dude fails so bad. :facepalm


Tony Parker

MVP Award Shares
2005-06 NBA 0.007 (9)
2006-07 NBA 0.001 (15)
2008-09 NBA 0.007 (8) *TEAM LEADER
2010-11 NBA 0.002 (12) *TEAM LEADER
2011-12 NBA 0.274 (5) *TEAM LEADER
2012-13 NBA 0.071 (6) *TEAM LEADER
2013-14 NBA 0.017 (12) *TEAM LEADER
Active 0.379 (14)
Career 0.379 (59)


Pau Gasol

MVP Award Shares

-









:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


F*CKING INSIDE F*CKING HOOPS PEOPLE.

:applause: :applause:


i mean yeah sometimes they make a mistake on who deserves mvp. but this is too much LOL

[T_L_P]

try paying attention TLP. if this was about lowest ranked 2nd option single playoff finals stats. then you might have a point

but again you totally skipped the entire point of the subject


i said "lowest all time ranking of the PLAYER" dumby


parker is a 4 time champ, finals mvp, leader in MVP shares for 2 of his 4 titles

pau gasol never recieved a single last place vote in his life.

nore has gasol ever lead a team to even a single playoff victory

parkers lead teams to titles. hes top 60 all time minimum

gasol is barely top 100

I made a post after saying I get what you were doing. But it's still one of the dumbest things I've ever read.

98-03 Robinson averaged around 13/9/1/2. If you want to overrate him slightly you can say he's just in the top 20.

Shaq from 97-04 averaged 28/14/3/3. If you want to slightly underrated him you can he's just outside the top 10.

Now, based on your silly little idea, Duncan's second best player from 98-03 wasn't much worse than Kobe's next best player, because they are close-ish on the alltime rankings list.

Like I said, one of the dumbest things you've ever wrote, which is saying a lot.

[JT123]

Tony Parker

MVP Award Shares
2005-06 NBA 0.007 (9)
2006-07 NBA 0.001 (15)
2008-09 NBA 0.007 (8) *TEAM LEADER
2010-11 NBA 0.002 (12) *TEAM LEADER
2011-12 NBA 0.274 (5) *TEAM LEADER
2012-13 NBA 0.071 (6) *TEAM LEADER
2013-14 NBA 0.017 (12) *TEAM LEADER
Active 0.379 (14)
Career 0.379 (59)


Pau Gasol

MVP Award Shares

-









:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


F*CKING INSIDE F*CKING HOOPS PEOPLE.

:applause: :applause:


i mean yeah sometimes they make a mistake on who deserves mvp. but this is too much LOL
Ohhhhh, so now the MVP means something? :roll: :roll: :roll:

[stalkerforlife]

Tony Parker

MVP Award Shares
2005-06 NBA 0.007 (9)
2006-07 NBA 0.001 (15)
2008-09 NBA 0.007 (8) *TEAM LEADER
2010-11 NBA 0.002 (12) *TEAM LEADER
2011-12 NBA 0.274 (5) *TEAM LEADER
2012-13 NBA 0.071 (6) *TEAM LEADER
2013-14 NBA 0.017 (12) *TEAM LEADER
Active 0.379 (14)
Career 0.379 (59)


Pau Gasol

MVP Award Shares

-









:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


F*CKING INSIDE F*CKING HOOPS PEOPLE.

:applause: :applause:


i mean yeah sometimes they make a mistake on who deserves mvp. but this is too much LOL

/thread

[kennethgriffin]

imagine if ray allen didnt hit that shot. and kawhi leonard didnt edge out tony parker for mvp ( even though parker also averaged 18ppg in the finals )


we could be looking at tony parker with

5 nba titles
3 finals mvps

shit he'd be a top 10 player all time LOL

then give him his steve nash season mvp he shoulda gotten atleast once. then maybe hes top 5 ever

[stalkerforlife]

Tony Parker vs Pau Gasol...

Parker - 4 titles. 1 finals MVP. 6 all-star games. 4 ALL-NBA selections.

Pau - 2 titles. 4 all-star games. 3 ALL-NBA selections.

Parker is the better all time player.

[kennethgriffin]

Ohhhhh, so now the MVP means something? :roll: :roll: :roll:


i did say "sometimes they make a mistake on whos #1 and whos #2. but with that wide of a gap between gasol and parker. its kind of hard to argue "media spite"


i mean the media hates kobe. thats my argument

but the media also hates french people much more than spanish people

so then theres no reason why parker would get all that love unless he was doing something right

[stalkerforlife]

imagine if ray allen didnt hit that shot. and kawhi leonard didnt edge out tony parker for mvp ( even though parker also averaged 18ppg in the finals )


we could be looking at tony parker with

5 nba titles
3 finals mvps

shit he'd be a top 10 player all time LOL

then give him his steve nash season mvp he shoulda gotten atleast once. then maybe hes top 5 ever

You went too far.

But Parker > Pau all time.

[kennethgriffin]

First post i read in this thread....:biggums:





:roll:


ah **** it.. i'm obviously kidding. his stats, all nba teams, level of play lack. but still insane

[LakersFan626]

It's not the same and you know it. :oldlol: Gasol was elite throughout the entirety of the Lakers 2009 and 2010 playoff runs.
Bosh and Ray were elite for ONE PLAY of Miami's 2013 playoff run. They then followed this up by going SCORELESS in game 7 of the Finals! :facepalm

You're right. That's what makes LeBron's worse. Kobe and Pau were both elite in 2009 and 2010, while Bosh and Ray SAVED LeBron after he MISSED the game tying shot. If they weren't there, LeBron would only have one ring.

[KirbyPls]

You're right. That's what makes LeBron's worse. Kobe and Pau were both elite in 2009 and 2010, while Bosh and Ray SAVED LeBron after he MISSED the game tying shot. If they weren't there, LeBron would only have one ring.

So 1 play by 3rd and 5th options > sustained excellence through two separate playoff runs by a guy with much better stats than both combined? How far in the playoffs did Kobe get without Pau? How far in the playoffs did Lebron get without Wade and Bosh?

Kobetards :lol

[SouBeachTalents]

You're right. That's what makes LeBron's worse. Kobe and Pau were both elite in 2009 and 2010, while Bosh and Ray SAVED LeBron after he MISSED the game tying shot. If they weren't there, LeBron would only have one ring.

LeBron then saved them in Game 7, as he saved the Heat throughout the majority of the 2013 playoffs

[KirbyPls]

LeBron then saved them in Game 7, as he saved the Heat throughout the majority of the 2013 playoffs

F**K outta here with dem facts and dat logic bruh. GODBE, GOATBE, MAMBABE!!!!!!

[no pun intended]

Pau shot 3 for 5 threes vs Brazil? wtf

Boom Boom Pau :bowdown:

[dubeta]

If Pau wins another ring before he retires he would have 3 rings and would be top 40 NO QUESTION

[TaLvsCuaL]

There is some kind of posters that I seriously hate. Guys making a stupid statement about a player like "Pau is the best PF of the decade" with a alternative account to get the chance to bash him with the main. Utterly pathetic. And those Kobe stans attacking him at every opportunity is just sad.

I don't care if Pau is top 50 or top 5000. He is a great player, a great profesional and really a good person. The greatest Spaniard player ever and a good excample for children.

[ImKobe]

Pau is so damn overrated here. People here trying to put Pau top 50 all-time and shit, when he didn't win a single game in the Playoffs without Kobe in Memphis, despite having at least one 50-win team and making the Playoffs 4x, was also only a 1x all-star in Memphis.

Kobe made him more efficient in the triangle. If Pau was so great and carried the Lakers, what happened to him in 2011? Didn't he average 13 & 9 in the POs, let Dirk shoot 73% on threes over him for an entire series? What about last season, when he was relatively healthy and had the chance to carry a bunch of scrubs like Kobe did in 2013, ended up with the 6th worst record in the league.

Pau is a great player overall, but he's not what these Kobe haters make him up to be. Oh, he's beasting at an international competition? Good for him. He was amazing in the 2012 Olympics as well and then sucked the following season in the NBA and was hampered by injuries. He'll finally win a Playoff game in the LEastern conference.

[SouBeachTalents]

Pau is so damn overrated here. People here trying to put Pau top 50 all-time and shit, when he didn't win a single game in the Playoffs without Kobe in Memphis, despite having at least one 50-win team and making the Playoffs 4x, was also only a 1x all-star in Memphis.

Kobe made him more efficient in the triangle. If Pau was so great and carried the Lakers, what happened to him in 2011? Didn't he average 13 & 9 in the POs, let Dirk shoot 73% on threes over him for an entire series? What about last season, when he was relatively healthy and had the chance to carry a bunch of scrubs like Kobe did in 2013, ended up with the 6th worst record in the league.

Pau is a great player overall, but he's not what these Kobe haters make him up to be. Oh, he's beasting at an international competition? Good for him. He was amazing in the 2012 Olympics as well and then sucked the following season in the NBA and was hampered by injuries. He'll finally win a Playoff game in the LEastern conference.

Bosh put up even worse numbers in the 2013 playoffs, yet you routinely defend his performance

[dubeta]

Bosh put up even worse numbers in the 2013 playoffs, yet you routinely defend his performance

And LeBron still won the ring in 2013 while Kobe couldnt in 2011

[DonDadda59]

Caught the game against Brazil. Pau looked like he turned back the clock 5 years. Looked unstoppable (and more importantly, healthy). If he can carry it over to the NBA season, Chicago will be a force to reckon with.

[JISU]

In recent years in FIBA Basketball the 3 best players of the world (and kinda unstoppable, were in no particular order):
- Pau Gasol
- Kevin Durant
- Dirk Nowitzki

For example I

[ImKobe]

And LeBron still won the ring in 2013 while Kobe couldnt in 2011

And what does this have to do with what I posted? Bosh was also a 3rd option for Lebron while Wade still showed up in big games, Bosh played good to great defense in the Finals while Pau played like trash and let Dirk walk all over him.

Plus, Kobe was way past his prime and played on a bad knee.

[Bandito]

Bosh put up even worse numbers in the 2013 playoffs, yet you routinely defend his performance
Gasol 2nd option
Bosh 3rd option (at best)


Wade 2nd option, now that is the player you compared GAsol to dimwit:facepalm

[ImKobe]

Gasol 2nd option
Bosh 3rd option (at best)


Wade 2nd option, now that is the player you compared GAsol to dimwit:facepalm

And Wade averaged 20/4/5/2/1 in the Finals on 48% shooting, had three games with at least 23 points in that series, including 23/10 in Game 7.

But why do we bother, they are just useless trolls that none of us should reply to, it would make them irrelevant. By replying, we're just giving them what they want.

[Rooster]

Caught the game against Brazil. Pau looked like he turned back the clock 5 years. Looked unstoppable (and more importantly, healthy). If he can carry it over to the NBA season, Chicago will be a force to reckon with.

He look like that back in 2012. The thing about FIBA is they don't let players breath on him. They will call foul if others denied him that inside position. Unlike in the NBA where he has to be strong to get that position. So Pau has that comfort zone and he has all that skills to finish it.

[SouBeachTalents]

And Wade averaged 20/4/5/2/1 in the Finals on 48% shooting, had three games with at least 23 points in that series, including 23/10 in Game 7.

But why do we bother, they are just useless trolls that none of us should reply to, it would make them irrelevant. By replying, we're just giving them what they want.

Lol, yet you'll conveniently ignore how Wade was averaging 14 ppg on 44% shooting through the first 18 games of the playoffs that year

[Magic 32]

Lol, yet you'll conveniently ignore how Wade was averaging 14 ppg on 44% shooting through the first 18 games of the playoffs that year

More than enough when you play in the least.

[Bandito]

If Pau wins another ring before he retires he would have 3 rings and would be top 40 NO QUESTION
Pau is matched as the top dog in rings to Lebeta. One more and Pau would trump Lebeta place on the top 10.

[Bandito]

And Wade averaged 20/4/5/2/1 in the Finals on 48% shooting, had three games with at least 23 points in that series, including 23/10 in Game 7.

But why do we bother, they are just useless trolls that none of us should reply to, it would make them irrelevant. By replying, we're just giving them what they want.
I like to reply to the trolls because it makes me happy watching them get mad from their wall of texts.

[ImKobe]

Lol, yet you'll conveniently ignore how Wade was averaging 14 ppg on 44% shooting through the first 18 games of the playoffs that year

The LEast is a joke, who cares that he had a bad series against the shitty bucks or the Bulls without Rose, or in the blowout losses/wins against Indiana. He showed up in big/close games and that's what 2nd options do. That's what Kobe did in 2000 as a sidekick, that's what Pau did as a sidekick in 2009 & 2010.

Miami could have lost in 5 games in 2013 if Wade doesn't go off for 32/4/6 in Game 4.

[Lebron23]

He's always been a first ballot hall of famer. He might resurrect his NBA Career while playing for the Tom Thibeddiu and the Bulls.

[Rooster]

He's always been a first ballot hall of famer. He might resurrect his NBA Career while playing for the Tom Thibeddiu and Bulls.

Thibo prefers defensive players but he might be getting those Boozer minutes.