perhaps Isiah Thomas and Dennis Rodman were right. Maybe Larry was a bit overrated

[kennethgriffin]

i mean i'm not saying larry bird isnt one of the 10 best ever. he is

but even what he was most known for. scoring... he wasnt exactly dominating the league


Larry Points Per Game

1979-80 NBA 21.3 ( NOT TOP 10 )
1980-81 NBA 21.2 ( NOT TOP 10 )
1981-82 NBA 22.9 (10th in the league )
1982-83 NBA 23.6 ( NOT TOP 10 )
1983-84 NBA 24.2 (7th in the league )
1984-85 NBA 28.7 (2nd int he league )
1985-86 NBA 25.8 (4th in the league )
1986-87 NBA 28.1 (4th in the league )
1987-88 NBA 29.9 (3rd in the league )
1988-89 NBA 19.3 ( NOT TOP 10 )
1989-90 NBA 24.3 ( NOT TOP 10 )
1990-91 NBA 19.4 ( NOT TOP 10 )
1991-92 NBA 20.2 ( NOT TOP 10 )


compared to kobe since starting for the lakers

1998-99 NBA 20.0 ( NOT TOP 10 )
1999-00 NBA 22.5 (10)
2000-01 NBA 28.5 (4)
2001-02 NBA 25.2 (6)
2002-03 NBA 30.0 (2)
2003-04 NBA 24.0 (4)
2004-05 NBA 27.6 (2)
2005-06 NBA 35.4 (1)
2006-07 NBA 31.6 (1)
2007-08 NBA 28.3 (2)
2008-09 NBA 26.8 (3)
2009-10 NBA 27.0 (4)
2010-11 NBA 25.3 (5)
2011-12 NBA 27.9 (2)
2012-13 NBA 27.3 (3)




its pretty obvious bird got the steve nash white guy treatment from the media

i know theres more to the game like rebounding. but bird was 6-10. he should rebound

[KyrieTheFuture]

ISH is a math teacher's worst nightmare

[dubeta]

Most people acknowledge LeBron already >> Bird so he's not really overrated

[Beastmode88]

Most people acknowledge LeBron already >> Bird so he's not really overrated

lol maybe to bran stans.

[kennethgriffin]

and the only reason kobes career average is 25 compared to birds 24 is cause kobe was benched his 1st 2 years

if bird was benched his first 2 years and kobe started every season. birds career average would be 21ppg, and kobes would be 28ppg

[SouBeachTalents]

Has OP ever made a thread that wasn't about Kobe or LeBron?

[kennethgriffin]

Has OP ever made a thread that wasn't about Kobe or LeBron?

actually i made one a few hours ago about offensive goaltending


and btw.. this is more about bird
:lol

[moe94]

http://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnn06rcPVW1qkxuajo1_400.gif

[Jameerthefear]

http://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnn06rcPVW1qkxuajo1_400.gif
how old are you? do you not realize this is ****ing bait?

[moe94]

how old are you? do you not realize this is ****ing bait?

Is that your exact pick up line on little girls?

[stalkerforlife]

kenneth is being a bad, bad boy.

[kennethgriffin]

well i'm white so i should be able to say when a white guy gets special treatment

what could i possible have to gain from this? if anything i'm helping bran stans with their infactuation for goat small forward. as if its some accomplishment

everyone knows only the goat PG, SG, C matter


PF and SF have always been mostly guys who came up short in their careers.

[navy]

What were his assist and shooting percentages?

[kennethgriffin]

What were his assist and shooting percentages?


imagine if kobe didnt care about being top 10 in scoring most of his career. he'd have 1 more assist and 50% shooting aswell

who cares


infact i think kobe would average near 10 apg if he only went for 21 or 22 a night

[ThePhantomCreep]

imagine if kobe didnt care about being top 10 in scoring most of his career. he'd have 1 more assist and 50% shooting aswell

who cares


infact i think kobe would average near 10 apg if he only went for 21 or 22 a night


You're making excuses now. Bad ones. Assists, shooting percentages, and rebounds count.

The year Zeke and Rodman made their comments, Bird averaged 28/9/7 and had 50/90/40% season. Most players, regardless of race and ability, could only dream of putting up those types numbers. That includes Thomas, the real overrated player in this discussion.

[GrapeApe]

imagine if kobe didnt care about being top 10 in scoring most of his career. he'd have 1 more assist and 50% shooting aswell

who cares


infact i think kobe would average near 10 apg if he only went for 21 or 22 a night

Why do people say things like this? It's such simplified and flawed logic. "Well if Kobe averages 28/5, if he only averaged 20ppg he should get 9-10apg". Wrong. It's not as if he woke up one day and said "I think I'll be a scorer". It's just who he is as a player and it's what made him great. To play any other way would be going against his instincts and abilities making him far less effective. He would probably average a few more assits but far more turnovers because he'd be trying to play a style in which he is uncomfortable.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Larry wasn't as revered a scorer like Kobe is today. Dude was celebrated for his all-around exploits, primarily for his shot selection and playmaking.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Larry wasn't as revered a scorer like Kobe is today. Dude was celebrated for his all-around exploits, primarily for his shot selection and playmaking.

There are separated by less than 1% in TS% and AS% a difference made even more irrelevant once you factor in the competition each of them faced. :confusedshrug:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

There are separated by less than 1% in TS% and AS% a difference made even more irrelevant once you factor in the competition each of them faced. :confusedshrug:

TS% also takes freethrows into account, which has nothing to do with what I said. Shot selection obviously refers to the attempts somebody pursues.

[Round Mound]

Now Lets Compare Other SF of the 80s in Terms of Passing, APG and RPG...:confusedshrug:

[GimmeThat]

ISH is a math teacher's worst nightmare


and a conductor's haven because of synergy?

[Asukal]

Bird still better than Kobe doe. :oldlol:

[Real14]

Bird still better than Kobe doe. :oldlol:
how?:biggums:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

TS% also takes freethrows into account, which has nothing to do with what I said. Shot selection obviously refers to the attempts somebody pursues.

Like taking a shot in which there is a good chance you will be fouled?

That's not a part of good shot selection?

:roll:

[GimmeThat]

Like taking a shot in which there is a good chance you will be fouled?

That's not a part of good shot selection?

:roll:


refs swallow whistles the same way coaches swallow bad plays?

[DonDadda59]

Is that your exact pick up line on little girls?

Slayed.

[bdreason]

Larry Bird is one of the greatest players to ever play the game....





and yes, he was overrated slightly because he was white.

[imnew09]

He is. Kobe is above Bird and Magic. Even Magic himself said Kobe is greatest Laker of all time when Magic played for the Lakers his entire career as well.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

He is. Kobe is above Bird and Magic. Even Magic himself said Kobe is greatest Laker of all time when Magic played for the Lakers his entire career as well.
:facepalm

[Cold soul]

He is. Kobe is above Bird and Magic. Even Magic himself said Kobe is greatest Laker of all time when Magic played for the Lakers his entire career as well.

Kobe had the better career than Bird and in my opinion was the better overall player. But Kobe over Magic? That's debatable for sure basically it's a tossup for now.

[Joyner82reload]

LOL @ OP just blatantly leaving out Kobe's 1st 2 years. Let's just play this game

Kevin Durant
2009-10 30.1 ppg(1st)
2010-11 27.7 ppg(1st)
2011-12 28.0 ppg(1st)
2012-13 28.1 ppg(2nd)
2013-14 32.0 ppg(1st)

Durant's on that track to be the GOAT I guess

[kennethgriffin]

LOL @ OP just blatantly leaving out Kobe's 1st 2 years. Let's just play this game

Kevin Durant
2009-10 30.1 ppg(1st)
2010-11 27.7 ppg(1st)
2011-12 28.0 ppg(1st)
2012-13 28.1 ppg(2nd)
2013-14 32.0 ppg(1st)

Durant's on that track to be the GOAT I guess


he is... scoring wise... yeah easly

we've never seen anyone like durant go off like he has as much as he has by his age.

and yeah i leave out kobes 1st 2 years. because he didnt play

but even if i included them kobe would still have a way more impressive run than bird

[kennethgriffin]

durant will probably score 40k+ easly IMO... he'l probably go down as the GOAT career scorer by far

why is that a problem? i dont mind. its not like kobe has a chance anymore with his achilles

[cltcfn2924]

i mean i'm not saying larry bird isnt one of the 10 best ever. he is

but even what he was most known for. scoring... he wasnt exactly dominating the league


Larry Points Per Game

1979-80 NBA 21.3 ( NOT TOP 10 )
1980-81 NBA 21.2 ( NOT TOP 10 )
1981-82 NBA 22.9 (10th in the league )
1982-83 NBA 23.6 ( NOT TOP 10 )
1983-84 NBA 24.2 (7th in the league )
1984-85 NBA 28.7 (2nd int he league )
1985-86 NBA 25.8 (4th in the league )
1986-87 NBA 28.1 (4th in the league )
1987-88 NBA 29.9 (3rd in the league )
1988-89 NBA 19.3 ( NOT TOP 10 )
1989-90 NBA 24.3 ( NOT TOP 10 )
1990-91 NBA 19.4 ( NOT TOP 10 )
1991-92 NBA 20.2 ( NOT TOP 10 )


compared to kobe since starting for the lakers

1998-99 NBA 20.0 ( NOT TOP 10 )
1999-00 NBA 22.5 (10)
2000-01 NBA 28.5 (4)
2001-02 NBA 25.2 (6)
2002-03 NBA 30.0 (2)
2003-04 NBA 24.0 (4)
2004-05 NBA 27.6 (2)
2005-06 NBA 35.4 (1)
2006-07 NBA 31.6 (1)
2007-08 NBA 28.3 (2)
2008-09 NBA 26.8 (3)
2009-10 NBA 27.0 (4)
2010-11 NBA 25.3 (5)
2011-12 NBA 27.9 (2)
2012-13 NBA 27.3 (3)




its pretty obvious bird got the steve nash white guy treatment from the media

i know theres more to the game like rebounding. but bird was 6-10. he should rebound


Yep, it's always about scoring with you young pups. You know how badly Kobe has had to chuck to get those points right? And in case you missed the 80's (which you apparently did), Isiah's team could not beat Larry legend in the playoffs until he was over the hill. And finally you say he was mostly known for scoring which is absolute nonsense. Come back when you learn more about this game.

[kennethgriffin]

Yep, it's always about scoring with you young pups. You know how badly Kobe has had to chuck to get those points right? And in case you missed the 80's (which you apparently did), Isiah's team could not beat Larry legend in the playoffs until he was over the hill. And finally you say he was mostly known for scoring which is absolute nonsense. Come back when you learn more about this game.


if whenever anyone says anything about scoring. someone else always says "its always about scoring" then they look like theyre basically discounting scoring.

duncan fans do it too... every single god damn time anything about scoring comes up ... "SCORING DOESNT MATTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

:roll:


its like my dad when he used to say "oh its ALWAYS someone elses fault"

well if you ALWAYS say "oh its always someone elses fault" then you're basically saying "ITS ALWAYS YOUR FAULT"

LOL

same shit. its reverse BULLSHIT

scoring has to count sometime.. atleast once on ISH LOL jesus christ

[Nowitness]

if whenever anyone says anything about scoring. someone else always says "its always about scoring" then they look like theyre basically discounting scoring.

duncan fans do it too... every single god damn time anything about scoring comes up ... "SCORING DOESNT MATTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

:roll:


its like my dad when he used to say "oh its ALWAYS someone elses fault"

well if you ALWAYS say "oh its always someone elses fault" then you're basically saying "ITS ALWAYS YOUR FAULT"

LOL

same shit. its reverse BULLSHIT

scoring has to count sometime.. atleast once on ISH LOL jesus christ

your analogies and formulas/equations are always wack.

ohhhh. if duncan and dirk cared about stats, they'd average 30/15/5 no problem.

doesnt make it true you queer. :facepalm

[kennethgriffin]

your analogies and formulas/equations are always wack.

ohhhh. if duncan and dirk cared about stats, they'd average 30/15/5 no problem.

doesnt make it true you queer. :facepalm

well maybe dirk could do that.. but duncan? hell to the **** no :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Nowitness]

well maybe dirk could do that.. but duncan? hell to the **** no :roll: :roll: :roll:

and kobe couldnt average 10 assists ever. and theres nothing to prove he would.

even still duncan & dirk > kobe. i mean, both won titles as the best players on their team. kobe didnt do it once. and he gets exposed every time the greatest coach ever isnt behind him.

forced his way out of charlotte because he couldnt ride cotails there. shaq had more rebounds than kobe had points in a finals.

:oldlol:
:oldlol:
:oldlol:
:oldlol:
:oldlol:

[Iceman#44]

i mean i'm not saying larry bird isnt one of the 10 best ever. he is

but even what he was most known for. scoring... he wasnt exactly dominating the league


Larry Points Per Game

1979-80 NBA 21.3 ( NOT TOP 10 )
1980-81 NBA 21.2 ( NOT TOP 10 )
1981-82 NBA 22.9 (10th in the league )
1982-83 NBA 23.6 ( NOT TOP 10 )
1983-84 NBA 24.2 (7th in the league )
1984-85 NBA 28.7 (2nd int he league )
1985-86 NBA 25.8 (4th in the league )
1986-87 NBA 28.1 (4th in the league )
1987-88 NBA 29.9 (3rd in the league )
1988-89 NBA 19.3 ( NOT TOP 10 )
1989-90 NBA 24.3 ( NOT TOP 10 )
1990-91 NBA 19.4 ( NOT TOP 10 )
1991-92 NBA 20.2 ( NOT TOP 10 )


compared to kobe since starting for the lakers

1998-99 NBA 20.0 ( NOT TOP 10 )
1999-00 NBA 22.5 (10)
2000-01 NBA 28.5 (4)
2001-02 NBA 25.2 (6)
2002-03 NBA 30.0 (2)
2003-04 NBA 24.0 (4)
2004-05 NBA 27.6 (2)
2005-06 NBA 35.4 (1)
2006-07 NBA 31.6 (1)
2007-08 NBA 28.3 (2)
2008-09 NBA 26.8 (3)
2009-10 NBA 27.0 (4)
2010-11 NBA 25.3 (5)
2011-12 NBA 27.9 (2)
2012-13 NBA 27.3 (3)




its pretty obvious bird got the steve nash white guy treatment from the media

i know theres more to the game like rebounding. but bird was 6-10. he should rebound
OP, Kobe scored 19.9 ppg in 98-99, not 20.0. Also was just 12 in the scoring Race for the 99-00 season, NOT a top 10

[Kblaze8855]

The game is in trouble when people take the scoring averages of arguably the most skilled offensive player ever and use it against him because he had the good sense to get all he could out of more than capable teammates.

Nobody credible thinks Bird scored ___ because that's what he as capable of. Bird scored more or less what he felt like at the moment. Which every single person who watched him knows.

I suspect OP knows. Hes old enough I believe. Hes just being difficult because that's what he does. Pretend to be more ignorant than he is to get a reaction in the process of propping up Kobe.

[kennethgriffin]

and kobe couldnt average 10 assists ever. and theres nothing to prove he would.

even still duncan & dirk > kobe. i mean, both won titles as the best players on their team. kobe didnt do it once. and he gets exposed every time the greatest coach ever isnt behind him.

forced his way out of charlotte because he couldnt ride cotails there. shaq had more rebounds than kobe had points in a finals.

:oldlol:
:oldlol:
:oldlol:
:oldlol:
:oldlol:

um yes. kobe could average 10 assists

know why? because he has

averages are based on minutes

kobes highest MPG is 41.5

last year kobe played PG during his return since nash, farmar and blake were injured

during his time before the leg break kobe averaged 6.3 apg in only 29 minutes

his per 36 min average was 8 assists per game

converted to per 41.5 minute average and its damn near 10 assists per game

ON ONE LEG ... with NO TRAINING CAMP


during the season before that kobe had a stretch one month where he averaged 8+ assists. per 41.5 min it was also near 10

during these stretches kobe was scoring at a 20ppg pace per 36 min

if kobe wanted to he could easly transition into a PG and average near 20ppg and 10 apg

fact.

[bigt]

Is that your exact pick up line on little girls?

Nearly wasn't going to bother with this thread as it felt like a pointless argument waiting to happen, but this brutal slay totally made it worth it :roll: :applause:

[KG215]

um yes. kobe could average 10 assists

know why? because he has

averages are based on minutes

kobes highest MPG is 41.5

last year kobe played PG during his return since nash, farmar and blake were injured

during his time before the leg break kobe averaged 6.3 apg in only 29 minutes

his per 36 min average was 8 assists per game

converted to per 41.5 minute average and its damn near 10 assists per game

ON ONE LEG ... with NO TRAINING CAMP


during the season before that kobe had a stretch one month where he averaged 8+ assists. per 41.5 min it was also near 10

during these stretches kobe was scoring at a 20ppg pace per 36 min

if kobe wanted to he could easly transition into a PG and average near 20ppg and 10 apg

fact.
Someone clearly doesn't know what "fact" means. I mean what the hell does that even mean? You cherrypick Kobe's highest MPG season, his per-36 APG numbers from a portion of another season, and come to the conclusion he could "easily" and factually average 20 and 10 if he wanted?

How the hell do you continually come up with this shit? And why the hell do you think anyone is ever going to take you seriously?

[T_L_P]

Someone clearly doesn't know what "fact" means. I mean what the hell does that even mean? You cherrypick Kobe's highest MPG season, his per-36 APG numbers from a portion of another season, and come to the conclusion he could "easily" and factually average 20 and 10 if he wanted?

How the hell do you continually come up with this shit? And why the hell do you think anyone is ever going to take you seriously?

Over the spread of 6 games too. :biggums:

[miles berg]

Gotta remember Bird was also playing in a much tougher era against much more stacked teams in a pre cap 24 team league.

Bird was legit GOAT material. Kobe is great, no doubt, 11th best player I've ever seen. But he isn't Bird. Birds numbers would be unreal had he played in the weak era Kobe got to play in.

[GrapeApe]

um yes. kobe could average 10 assists

know why? because he has

averages are based on minutes

kobes highest MPG is 41.5

last year kobe played PG during his return since nash, farmar and blake were injured

during his time before the leg break kobe averaged 6.3 apg in only 29 minutes

his per 36 min average was 8 assists per game

converted to per 41.5 minute average and its damn near 10 assists per game

ON ONE LEG ... with NO TRAINING CAMP


during the season before that kobe had a stretch one month where he averaged 8+ assists. per 41.5 min it was also near 10

during these stretches kobe was scoring at a 20ppg pace per 36 min

if kobe wanted to he could easly transition into a PG and average near 20ppg and 10 apg

fact.

No, not a fact, and if he did average 10 apg he'd lead the league in turnovers by a wide margin. Please see me previous post in this thread.

[KG215]

Over the spread of 6 games too. :biggums:
Leave it to Griff to cherrypick stats from two different seasons, one of which is an extremely small sample size, and state that based on those numbers, it's factually correct that Kobe could average 10 APG "if he wanted to."

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe could average 30, 10, 10 on 50% if he wanted, he just chooses not to

[Prometheus]

Larry Bird was a better basketball player than Kobe Bryant.

[ralph_i_el]

Kobe COULD average 10 APG if he wanted to....by going to play in China.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Like taking a shot in which there is a good chance you will be fouled?

That's not a part of good shot selection?

:roll:

Who said it wasn't? You mentioned TS% which takes into account freethrows (where you're not defended) and 3PT shooting (today's league inherently shoots more)

With or without the intent to be fouled, Bird had better shot selection. It's really not debatable.

[Jailblazers7]

and the only reason kobes career average is 25 compared to birds 24 is cause kobe was benched his 1st 2 years

if bird was benched his first 2 years and kobe started every season. birds career average would be 21ppg, and kobes would be 28ppg

Guess what...there is a reason Bird wasn't benched his first 2 years.

[SouBeachTalents]

Guess what...there is a reason Bird wasn't benched his first 2 years.

http://i.minus.com/iBEwT7tEC0X2B.gif

[ImKobe]

Guess what...there is a reason Bird wasn't benched his first 2 years.

He wasn't drafted at 17 years old, played his first NBA Game at 23 years old instead, when Kobe at the same age 3-peated already and led the most dominant Playoff team EVER in winshares and shared the same WS/48 as prime Shaq at 22? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[GrapeApe]

I just thought of something. Wade had a month stretch in '09 where he averaged 37ppg and 10apg. If he only averaged 20ppg he could average nearly 20apg! Clearly this proves could have been the greatest PG ever if he wanted!

[Encre92]

Guess what...there is a reason Bird wasn't benched his first 2 years.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :applause:

[ImKobe]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :applause:


He wasn't drafted at 17 years old, played his first NBA Game at 23 years old instead, when Kobe at the same age 3-peated already and led the most dominant Playoff team EVER in winshares and shared the same WS/48 as prime Shaq at 22? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


..

[KG215]

I just thought of something. Wade had a month stretch in '09 where he averaged 37ppg and 10apg. If he only averaged 20ppg he could average nearly 20apg! Clearly this proves could have been the greatest PG ever if he wanted!
Yeah, using Griff's embarrassingly stupid logic, we could make a list of 15-25 players who could average something like 20 and 10 or 25 and 10 if we cherry picked the best week, two week, or month stretch of their careers. Griff picking the season where Kobe played his most minutes and pairing it with a six game stretch from a completely different season takes it to a whole other level of stupidity.

[kennethgriffin]

Yeah, using Griff's embarrassingly stupid logic, we could make a list of 15-25 players who could average something like 20 and 10 or 25 and 10 if we cherry picked the best week, two week, or month stretch of their careers. Griff picking the season where Kobe played his most minutes and pairing it with a six game stretch from a completely different season takes it to a whole other level of stupidity.

what ****ing logic? why is it whenever i point something out people assume its how i rank players all time and its the sole piece of evidence i use in judging people

i'm just saying something thats a god damn fact. take it for what its worth. bird was sh*t at scoring averages compared to his competition


something like this can be used when comparing SIMILARLY RANKED or COMPARABLE players


if kobe and bird are neck and neck on the top 10 list. then it doesnt hurt to point something out that might sway to kobes favor. why not?


its not like i'm saying "HEY! IVERSON IS A TOP 10 PLAYER EVER!... THIS IS MY NEW RANKING FORMULA GUYYYYYYYYYZ!"


****in idiot

:facepalm

[SouBeachTalents]

what ****ing logic? why is it whenever i point something out people assume its how i rank players all time and its the sole piece of evidence i use in judging people

i'm just saying something thats a god damn fact. take it for what its worth. bird was sh*t at scoring averages compared to his competition


something like this can be used when comparing SIMILARLY RANKED or COMPARABLE players


if kobe and bird are neck and neck on the top 10 list. then it doesnt hurt to point something out that might sway to kobes favor. why not?


its not like i'm saying "HEY! IVERSON IS A TOP 10 PLAYER EVER!... THIS IS MY NEW RANKING FORMULA GUYYYYYYYYYZ!"


****in idiot

:facepalm

Meltdown :lol

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Yeah, using Griff's embarrassingly stupid logic, we could make a list of 15-25 players who could average something like 20 and 10 or 25 and 10 if we cherry picked the best week, two week, or month stretch of their careers. Griff picking the season where Kobe played his most minutes and pairing it with a six game stretch from a completely different season takes it to a whole other level of stupidity.

No offense dude, but I never see you post outside of following the OP around like a lost puppy. Get a grip.

Personally, I don't think Bird was overrated, but as a scorer, he isn't "definitely" better than Bryant and as players, they're debatable. Kenneth is merely agreeing with Rodman and Thomas, which is...fine.

[kennethgriffin]

Guess what...there is a reason Bird wasn't benched his first 2 years.

yeah and if bird went to the nba at age 17 instead of age 23. on a team with a guy in his spot thats already an allstar. then bird ALSO sits his 1st 2 years. maybe even more.

especially considering bird at 23 averaged only 21 points

while kobe at only 22 was already averaging 29 a game and 1st team all defense


so its obvious kobe was already LEAPS AND BOUNDS ahead of bird by age. for atleast scoring and defense. thats for sure.

[KG215]

No offense dude, but I never see you post outside of following the OP around like a lost puppy. Get a grip.

Personally, I don't think Bird was overrated, but as a scorer, he isn't "definitely" better than Bryant and it's more than arguable. Kenneth is merely agreeing with Rodman and Thomas which is...fine.
We'll get out more, then, because not all 20,000+ of my posts are spent on arguing with Griff. I'm not saying his logic being used to say Kobe is a better scorer than Bird is flawed, I'm saying the way he got to the conclusion Kobe could average 20 PPG and 10 APG is incredibly flawed and stupid.

[ImKobe]

No offense, dude, but I never see you post outside of following the OP around like a lost puppy.

Personally, I don't think Bird was overrated, but as a scorer, he isn't "definitely" better than Bryant and it's more than arguable. Kenneth is merely agreeing with Rodman and Thomas which is...fine.


Not a better overall scorer. Just a better pure shooter while only being a little more efficient from the field while taking less shots a game (most he ever took at his peak was 22). Career TS% 56,4% while Kobe's is 55,5 :confusedshrug:

[Jailblazers7]

yeah and if bird went to the nba at age 17 instead of age 23. on a team with a guy in his spot thats already an allstar. then bird ALSO sits his 1st 2 years. maybe even more.

especially considering bird at 23 averaged only 21 points

while kobe at only 22 was already averaging 29 a game and 1st team all defense


so its obvious kobe was already LEAPS AND BOUNDS ahead of bird by age. for atleast scoring and defense. thats for sure.

But none of that happened so let's tell more campfire tales.

[kennethgriffin]

its pretty sad that bird was in grade 10 at the same age that kobe was playing IN THE NBA

bird

age 17 = grade 10
age 18 = grade 11
age 19 = grade 12
age 20 = college
age 21 = college
age 22 = college


by the time bird set foot in the nba. kobe was already a back to back champ with 30ppg playoff averages

[kennethgriffin]

We'll get out more, then, because not all 20,000+ of my posts are spent on arguing with Griff. I'm not saying his logic being used to say Kobe is a better scorer than Bird is flawed, I'm saying the way he got to the conclusion Kobe could average 20 PPG and 10 APG is incredibly flawed and stupid.

surely you jest

[Jailblazers7]

its pretty sad that bird was in grade 10 at the same age that kobe was playing IN THE NBA

bird

age 17 = grade 10
age 18 = grade 11
age 19 = grade 12
age 20 = college
age 21 = college
age 22 = college


by the time bird set foot in the nba. kobe was already a back to back champ with 30ppg playoff averages

7 years into the league for each of them and both had 3 rings except Bird was a 3-peat MVP. But hey what if Bird was a 6th man and Kobe took 35 shots per game? I bet he would be the ones with the MVP's in that scenario.

[ImKobe]

7 years into the league for each of them and both had 3 rings except Bird was a 3-peat MVP. But hey what if Bird was a 6th man and Kobe took 35 shots per game? I bet he would be the ones with the MVP's in that scenario.

By the time Bird had been 7 years in the league, he turned 30. By the time Kobe had been 7 years in the league, his prime was just starting.

And Bird had A LOT of help in Boston. Let's not forget that either :rolleyes:

[kennethgriffin]

7 years into the league for each of them and both had 3 rings except Bird was a 3-peat MVP. But hey what if Bird was a 6th man and Kobe took 35 shots per game? I bet he would be the ones with the MVP's in that scenario.

i really dont care for the mvp award in comparrison between overrated white guys that the media gush over and an accused black rapist that shunned the media for a decade


its a media popularity contest. nash beat out shaq and kobe during years they were 10 times the player nash was

so who cares

media loves them a white hero

i'm white saying this.. so whatever. atleast i can admit it

kobe should probably have atleast 3 mvps

[SouBeachTalents]

i really dont care for the mvp award in comparrison between overrated white guys that the media gush over and an accused black rapist that shunned the media for a decade


its a media popularity contest. nash beat out shaq and kobe during years they were 10 times the player nash was

so who cares

media loves them a white hero

i'm white saying this.. so whatever. atleast i can admit it

kobe should probably have atleast 3 mvps

What years, and why?

[GrapeApe]

kobe should probably have atleast 3 mvps

Based on what? That's not to say he didn't have 3 MVP talent, but every year he didn't win there were clearly players with stronger cases, either based on team record, stats, or both.

[colts19]

its pretty sad that bird was in grade 10 at the same age that kobe was playing IN THE NBA

bird

age 17 = grade 10
age 18 = grade 11
age 19 = grade 12
age 20 = college
age 21 = college
age 22 = college


by the time bird set foot in the nba. kobe was already a back to back champ with 30ppg playoff averages

You could make the same argument with KAJ, Bill Russell, Wilt and a host of others who went to college. What is you point.

[kennethgriffin]

What years, and why?


Based on what? That's not to say he didn't have 3 MVP talent, but every year he didn't win there were clearly players with stronger cases, either based on team record, stats, or both.


just based on how jordan won in 1988


these were the standings in 1988


lakers 62-20 Magic = 20/12/6
celtics 57-25 Bird = 30/9/6
pistons 54-28
nuggets 54-28
mavs 53-29
blazers 53-29
atlanta 50-32
chicago 50-32 jordan = 35/6/5


now imagine instead of jordan. that was kobe

no way kobe gets mvp. because his name isnt JORDAN.

in 1988 jordan won mvp based purely on stats and being the best player ( according to the media )

in 2006 kobe also averaged 35/6/5 and was by far the best player during the regular season ( according to the media )

but steve nash won mvp because he had a better record

and nash wasnt even averaging a magic like 20/12/6 or a bird like 30/9/6

nash averaged 18/10/3



then you might say "well magic and bird had way more help than jordan"

well kobes lakers were worse top to bottom after him than jordans bull team mates


and nash also had 6 guys averaging double diget scoring. with shawn marion being a 22/12 player




so in the end. kobe shoulda gotten atleast one award like that. infact he coulda gotten 2 of them for 06 and 07







then you could argue for kobe in 2009. since winning 65 games in the west is 100 times harder than winning 66 games in the east.



kobe could have 3 mvps.. maybe 4. if his name was jordan

[Jailblazers7]

By the time Bird had been 7 years in the league, he turned 30. By the time Kobe had been 7 years in the league, his prime was just starting.

And Bird had A LOT of help in Boston. Let's not forget that either :rolleyes:

That's the point dude lol. All of these hypotheticals and situational comparisons are retarded.

[SouBeachTalents]

just based on how jordan won in 1988


these were the standings in 1988


lakers 62-20 Magic = 20/12/6
celtics 57-25 Bird = 30/9/6
pistons 54-28
nuggets 54-28
mavs 53-29
blazers 53-29
atlanta 50-32
chicago 50-32 jordan = 35/6/5


now imagine instead of jordan. that was kobe

no way kobe gets mvp. because his name isnt JORDAN.

in 1988 jordan won mvp based purely on stats and being the best player ( according to the media )

in 2006 kobe also averaged 35/6/5 and was by far the best player during the regular season ( according to the media )

but steve nash won mvp because he had a better record

and nash wasnt even averaging a magic like 20/12/6 or a bird like 30/9/6

nash averaged 18/10/3



then you might say "well magic and bird had way more help than jordan"

well kobes lakers were worse top to bottom after him than jordans bull team mates


and nash also had 6 guys averaging double diget scoring. with shawn marion being a 22/12 player




so in the end. kobe shoulda gotten atleast one award like that. infact he coulda gotten 2 of them for 06 and 07







then you could argue for kobe in 2009. since winning 65 games in the west is 100 times harder than winning 66 games in the east.



kobe could have 3 mvps.. maybe 4. if his name was jordan

Your Jordan 1988 example is faulty for a few reasons

1. As you said, the Bulls won 50 games, while the Lakers won 45. That's a clear enough difference in the standings to matter

2. Jordan in '88: 35, 6, 6 on 54%
Kobe in '06: 35, 5, 5, on 45%

3. While Kobe made All-Defensive first team, he didn't receive a single DPOY vote, while Jordan won DPOY handily

[KG215]

surely you jest
Must seem like it, I'm sure. Usually I get sucked into your shitty threads with their shitty logic and do spend too much time arguing with someone that's either, a.) a troll who doesn't actually believe hardly anything he posts or b.) someone so deluded and blinded by their biases, having any kind of objective and rational discussion is hopeless.

[kennethgriffin]

Your Jordan 1988 example is faulty for a few reasons

1. As you said, the Bulls won 50 games, while the Lakers won 45. That's a clear enough difference in the standings to matter

2. Jordan in '88: 35, 6, 6 on 54%
Kobe in '06: 35, 5, 5, on 45%

3. While Kobe made All-Defensive first team, he didn't receive a single DPOY vote, while Jordan won DPOY handily


1. how many guys won mvp with the 8th best record or worse since the media started voting

just one... jordan.

only other guy that comes close is lebron james in 2012 with the 4th best record

2. jordan shot 53% in 1988, bird also shot 53%, magic shot 50%


kobe isnt jordans competition. bird and magic were.

and kobes fg% as a shooting guard in the year 2006 was good. many more long range shots were attempted than back in 1988

3. the difference between being DPOTY and 1st team all defense isnt that much. just means you're like one or 2 players above the other guy

big woop



fact... jordan got special treatment in MVP voting. you cant deny it. you cant argue it. its a fact. and if kobe bryant was as loved by the media as MJ was. he would also have won mvp for his "STATS" and "STATUS"

record obviously had sweet F*CK all to do with the award in 1988. since magic had a dominating record and just as good a line as any other year hes won mvp.

bird aswell

[Hey Yo]

just based on how jordan won in 1988


these were the standings in 1988


lakers 62-20 Magic = 20/12/6
celtics 57-25 Bird = 30/9/6
pistons 54-28
nuggets 54-28
mavs 53-29
blazers 53-29
atlanta 50-32
chicago 50-32 jordan = 35/6/5


now imagine instead of jordan. that was kobe

no way kobe gets mvp. because his name isnt JORDAN.

in 1988 jordan won mvp based purely on stats and being the best player ( according to the media )

in 2006 kobe also averaged 35/6/5 and was by far the best player during the regular season ( according to the media )

but steve nash won mvp because he had a better record

and nash wasnt even averaging a magic like 20/12/6 or a bird like 30/9/6

nash averaged 18/10/3



then you might say "well magic and bird had way more help than jordan"

well kobes lakers were worse top to bottom after him than jordans bull team mates


and nash also had 6 guys averaging double diget scoring. with shawn marion being a 22/12 player




so in the end. kobe shoulda gotten atleast one award like that. infact he coulda gotten 2 of them for 06 and 07







then you could argue for kobe in 2009. since winning 65 games in the west is 100 times harder than winning 66 games in the east.



kobe could have 3 mvps.. maybe 4. if his name was jordan
Both LAL and Boston had stacked teams. Plus the East was much tougher than the garbage West that Magic faced.

[Kblaze8855]

Griff picking the season where Kobe played his most minutes and pairing it with a six game stretch from a completely different season takes it to a whole other level of stupidity.


Fairly easy to see why hes on his 4th name or so.

This shit is ridiculous sometimes.

[Big#50]

Good post. I think most rational basketball fans (even MJ fans) would agree that Kobe was indeed robbed in 07 and 06.
No. **** no.

[Hey Yo]

Griff picking the season where Kobe played his most minutes and pairing it with a six game stretch from a completely different season takes it to a whole other level of stupidity.
Poor Griff, having to lie to prop up his idol.

[kennethgriffin]

No. **** no.

if nash is mvp in 06

then bird or magic are mvp in 1988

if jordan is mvp in 1988

then kobe is mvp in 06 and 07




























https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtsyzdzsUFk

[Nash]

i mean i'm not saying larry bird isnt one of the 10 best ever. he is

but even what he was most known for. scoring... he wasnt exactly dominating the league


Larry Points Per Game

1979-80 NBA 21.3 ( NOT TOP 10 )
1980-81 NBA 21.2 ( NOT TOP 10 )
1981-82 NBA 22.9 (10th in the league )
1982-83 NBA 23.6 ( NOT TOP 10 )
1983-84 NBA 24.2 (7th in the league )
1984-85 NBA 28.7 (2nd int he league )
1985-86 NBA 25.8 (4th in the league )
1986-87 NBA 28.1 (4th in the league )
1987-88 NBA 29.9 (3rd in the league )
1988-89 NBA 19.3 ( NOT TOP 10 )
1989-90 NBA 24.3 ( NOT TOP 10 )
1990-91 NBA 19.4 ( NOT TOP 10 )
1991-92 NBA 20.2 ( NOT TOP 10 )


compared to kobe since starting for the lakers

1998-99 NBA 20.0 ( NOT TOP 10 )
1999-00 NBA 22.5 (10)
2000-01 NBA 28.5 (4)
2001-02 NBA 25.2 (6)
2002-03 NBA 30.0 (2)
2003-04 NBA 24.0 (4)
2004-05 NBA 27.6 (2)
2005-06 NBA 35.4 (1)
2006-07 NBA 31.6 (1)
2007-08 NBA 28.3 (2)
2008-09 NBA 26.8 (3)
2009-10 NBA 27.0 (4)
2010-11 NBA 25.3 (5)
2011-12 NBA 27.9 (2)
2012-13 NBA 27.3 (3)




its pretty obvious bird got the steve nash white guy treatment from the media

i know theres more to the game like rebounding. but bird was 6-10. he should rebound
I love how you post Bird's numbers in 88-89 when he played only 6 games that season but not Kobe's numbers in 13-14 when he also played only 6 games.

[SouBeachTalents]

I love how you post Bird's numbers in 88-89 when he played only 6 games that season but not Kobe's numbers in 13-14 when he also played only 6 games.

:oldlol: I wonder why

[stalkerforlife]

I love how you post Bird's numbers in 88-89 when he played only 6 games that season but not Kobe's numbers in 13-14 when he also played only 6 games.

Most likely an accident.

[kennethgriffin]

I love how you post Bird's numbers in 88-89 when he played only 6 games that season but not Kobe's numbers in 13-14 when he also played only 6 games.

will that really change much?

kobes been a top 5 scorer 12 times ( 11 straight seasons )

birds only been a top 5 scorer 4 times

[KG215]

I love how you post Bird's numbers in 88-89 when he played only 6 games that season but not Kobe's numbers in 13-14 when he also played only 6 games.
This is the same poster who did this...


Griff picking the season where Kobe played his most minutes and pairing it with a six game stretch from a completely different season takes it to a whole other level of stupidity.
In order to try and convince everyone Kobe could average 20 PPG and 10 APG, "if he wanted to."

[ralph_i_el]

if nash is mvp in 06

then bird or magic are mvp in 1988

if jordan is mvp in 1988

then kobe is mvp in 06 and 07




























https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtsyzdzsUFk
Dude quit being such a stan ******. You can love Kobe without making a million threads about it. It just makes people hate Kobe and hate you. I actually kinda liked Kobe before I found ISH. You stans ****ing ruined it.

[kennethgriffin]

Dude quit being such a stan ******. You can love Kobe without making a million threads about it. It just makes people hate Kobe and hate you. I actually kinda liked Kobe before I found ISH. You stans ****ing ruined it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxXJbjHttMc


first 4 seconds = my reaction

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Guess what...there is a reason Bird wasn't benched his first 2 years.

:lebronamazed:

[GrapeApe]

if nash is mvp in 06

then bird or magic are mvp in 1988

if jordan is mvp in 1988

then kobe is mvp in 06 and 07

I'm not seeing the correlation. Jordan would not have won the '88 MVP had the Bulls won 45 games.

[SouBeachTalents]

I'm not seeing the correlation. Jordan would not have won the '88 MVP had the Bulls won 45 games.

Or if he shot 45% instead of 54. Or if he hadn't won DPOY

[kennethgriffin]

I'm not seeing the correlation. Jordan would not have won the '88 MVP had the Bulls won 45 games.

i'l say it again. what other mvp in media voting history won with the 8th best record or worse other than michael jordan

i think lebrons the only guy that came close with 4th best record in 2012

and if kobe was in a league where magic johnson won 62 games. kobe wouldnt win mvp even if he won 50 instead of 45


in 2003 kobe had the best stats league wide and best season of anyone with 50+ wins

duncan won mvp cause he had a better record

and?


2003 = lakers 50-32 just like jordans bulls in 1988

kobe = 30/7/6, 9 straight 40 point games, 2 months of 40+ppg, nba record 12 threes, shaq missing a ton of games

duncan = 23/12/3... worse numbers than magic or bird from 1988

kobe obviously had the better individual season

but spurs record was 60-22 ( 2 less wins than magic in 1988 )


didnt matter

record won duncan the mvp in 2003


so wheres kobes 1988 jordan bullshit then?


some people might say "well but duncan won the title that year ..." well magics lakers went on to win in 1988. ditto

[kennethgriffin]

just face it guys. the nba re-wrote the criteria for MVP to suit who they want as MVP. they do it all the time

it always changes. they could just have easly re wrote it in favor of kobe in 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009


it IS a popularity contest

i just f*cking proved it with hard evidence

[ralph_i_el]

just face it guys. the nba re-wrote the criteria for MVP to suit who they want as MVP. they do it all the time

it always changes. they could just have easly re wrote it in favor of kobe in 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009


it IS a popularity contest

i just f*cking proved it with hard evidence
The NBA doesn't choose the MVP, and you didn't prove shit. Why should Kobe win MVP chucking on a bad team? If you give him all the credit when his team is good, then he gets all the blame when his team is bad. Otherwise you're just a dicksucker.

[kennethgriffin]

The NBA doesn't choose the MVP, and you didn't prove shit. Why should Kobe win MVP chucking on a bad team? If you give him all the credit when his team is good, then he gets all the blame when his team is bad. Otherwise you're just a dicksucker.


holy ****. look up. i just used a different example that absolutely mirrors 1988

in 2003 kobe was "chucking on a bad team" eh?

no. his lakers had THE EXACT SAME RECORD AS THE 1988 CHICAGO BULLS

50-32 <---------------------------------


kobe had statistically one of his absolute best seasons

30 POINTS PER GAME
7 REBOUNDS PER GAME
6 ASSISTS PER GAME
he even shot 40% threes that year
56% TS%
2 entire months OVER 40PPG



duncan won with inferior stats due to having 60 wins


magic had 62 wins in 1988... if the mvp was voted the same was in 1988. magic wins mvp. possibly bird

but in 2003 duncan won it





i dont even care about using 06 or 07 as an example anymore. 2003 is even more similar


SUCK IT BRAH

:lol :roll: :cheers:

I WIN

[kennethgriffin]

either magic is 1988 mvp and duncan is 2003 mvp

or

jordan is 1988 mvp and kobe is 2003 mvp




















https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtsyzdzsUFk

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Warfan]

:kobe:

Lakers were 5-10 without shaq in 03 and kobe played every game :yaohappy:

Duncan - 23/13/4/3 w/ elite defense

[SHAQisGOAT]

It was Dennis, not Isiah... Zeke was down and out, then when they asked him about it he "jokingly agreed" with Rodman's comments.

Anyways, Bird was just coming off of a 28.1/9.2/7.6/1.8/0.9 on 52.5/40.0/91.0 season, ending up 3rd on MVP voting after peak Magic (with one of the GOAT teams) and MJ (averaging 37 ppg), while the Celtics were not as good as before and not able to really go all the way in a league like that, at the end...

... then he put up 27.1/10.4/7.6 on .572 TS%, against the Bad Boys, schooling young Dennis plenty of times, probably the 1st he got schooled by a white boy like that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5BJGCh_eCY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJd4H4QvUck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-42c470-MjM

Larry was the main reason why the C's even got to the Finals again, including many clutch plays and the famous steal.

Find me any player doing that (black or white), Bird had a top5 peak... Definitely overrated :rolleyes: Kobe can't **** with Larry.

[kennethgriffin]

:kobe:

Lakers were 5-10 without shaq in 03 and kobe played every game :yaohappy:

Duncan - 23/13/4/3 w/ elite defense

OH NO! oH My!

the lakers struggled in 2003 without their ONLY other good player


well jordan in 1980s also struggled without pippen. infact for all 5 years of jordans career without pippen hes had a losing record



:roll:

why is it so easy for me to mess you people up... am i really that good. or are all of you really that god damn bad?

:lol


just give up people. i'm like a kobe/jordan encyclopedia

[kennethgriffin]

It was Dennis, not Isiah... Zeke was down and out, then when they asked him about it he "jokingly agreed" with Rodman's comments.

Anyways, Bird was just coming off of a 28.1/9.2/7.6/1.8/0.9 on 52.5/40.0/91.0 season, ending up 3rd on MVP voting after peak Magic (with one of the GOAT teams) and MJ (averaging 37 ppg), while the Celtics were not as good as before and not able to really go all the way in a league like that, at the end...

... then he put up 27.1/10.4/7.6 on .572 TS%, against the Bad Boys, schooling young Dennis plenty of times, probably the 1st he got schooled by a white boy like that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5BJGCh_eCY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJd4H4QvUck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-42c470-MjM

Larry was the main reason why the C's even got to the Finals again, including many clutch plays and the famous steal.

Find me any player doing that (black or white), Bird had a top5 peak... Definitely overrated :rolleyes: Kobe can't **** with Larry.



larry was as good as kobe ever was... for about 3-4 years

i aint knocking birds prime

but career wise he only had a 3-4 year run of absolute kobe like greatness.

kobe went off for 13 years straight

[Warfan]

OH NO! oH My!

the lakers struggled in 2003 without their ONLY other good player


well jordan in 1980s also struggled without pippen. infact for all 5 years of jordans career without pippen hes had a losing record



:roll:

why is it so easy for me to mess you people up... am i really that good. or are all of you really that god damn bad?

:lol


just give up people. i'm like a kobe/jordan encyclopedia

?? Pippen avg 8/4/2 playing 20mpg in 88'. MJ had a much better season than 03 kobe, whilst winning dpoy. .333 record over 15 games which would be 26/27 wins over a full season, even considering his teammates for that stretch that isnt a good look for a MVP. He wasnt as deserving of an MVP as MJ was in 88, the comparison isnt good...

[SHAQisGOAT]

larry was as good as kobe ever was... for about 3-4 years

i aint knocking birds prime

but career wise he only had a 3-4 year run of absolute kobe like greatness.

kobe went off for 13 years straight

And I ain't knocking Kobe's longevity, but at both their best, Kobe's not really ****ing with Larry, not a knock on Bryant, period, because few can... Again, Bird had a top5 peak.

[KG215]

OH NO! oH My!

the lakers struggled in 2003 without their ONLY other good player


well jordan in 1980s also struggled without pippen. infact for all 5 years of jordans career without pippen hes had a losing record



:roll:

why is it so easy for me to mess you people up... am i really that good. or are all of you really that god damn bad?

:lol


just give up people. i'm like a kobe/jordan encyclopedia
Not that impressive when you apparently spend the better part of your adult life creepily obsessing over Kobe and, in turn, creepily obsessing over Jordan so you can compare the two.

[La Frescobaldi]

The game is in trouble when people take the scoring averages of arguably the most skilled offensive player ever and use it against him because he had the good sense to get all he could out of more than capable teammates.

Nobody credible thinks Bird scored ___ because that's what he as capable of. Bird scored more or less what he felt like at the moment. Which every single person who watched him knows.

I suspect OP knows. Hes old enough I believe. Hes just being difficult because that's what he does. Pretend to be more ignorant than he is to get a reaction in the process of propping up Kobe.

Bird who went strictly with his left hand just to challenge himself. Toying with NBA defense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R76nMD8buR8

[Mr. Jabbar]

well i'm white

repped

[Mr. Jabbar]

how old are you? do you not realize this is ****ing bait?

u got banned again? lel

[DatAsh]

just based on how jordan won in 1988


these were the standings in 1988


lakers 62-20 Magic = 20/12/6
celtics 57-25 Bird = 30/9/6
pistons 54-28
nuggets 54-28
mavs 53-29
blazers 53-29
atlanta 50-32
chicago 50-32 jordan = 35/6/5


now imagine instead of jordan. that was kobe

no way kobe gets mvp. because his name isnt JORDAN.

in 1988 jordan won mvp based purely on stats and being the best player ( according to the media )

in 2006 kobe also averaged 35/6/5 and was by far the best player during the regular season ( according to the media )

but steve nash won mvp because he had a better record

and nash wasnt even averaging a magic like 20/12/6 or a bird like 30/9/6

nash averaged 18/10/3



then you might say "well magic and bird had way more help than jordan"

well kobes lakers were worse top to bottom after him than jordans bull team mates


and nash also had 6 guys averaging double diget scoring. with shawn marion being a 22/12 player




so in the end. kobe shoulda gotten atleast one award like that. infact he coulda gotten 2 of them for 06 and 07







then you could argue for kobe in 2009. since winning 65 games in the west is 100 times harder than winning 66 games in the east.



kobe could have 3 mvps.. maybe 4. if his name was jordan

While I'm not convinced Jordan really was the most valuable player that year, you have to take defense into consideration. The difference between 88' Jordan and 06' Kobe defensively is huge.

[oarabbus]

larry was as good as kobe ever was... for about 3-4 years

i aint knocking birds prime

but career wise he only had a 3-4 year run of absolute kobe like greatness.

kobe went off for 13 years straight


Dont be a fool. Larry's peak >> Kobe's peak

[kennethgriffin]

While I'm not convinced Jordan really was the most valuable player that year, you have to take defense into consideration. The difference between 88' Jordan and 06' Kobe defensively is huge.

again... stop trying.. you guys can't test me when it comes to debating. every turd you all throw at me i bat it right back at you

then youre all covered in feces

i'l do it again


1988 jordan defense > 2006 kobe defense

ok



2006 kobe defense >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
2006 Steve Nash's defense



you were saying?

:facepalm

[KG215]

again... stop trying.. you guys can't test me when it comes to debating. every turd you all throw at me i bat it right back at you

then youre all covered in feces

i'l do it again


1988 jordan defense > 2006 kobe defense

ok



2006 kobe defense >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
2006 Steve Nash's defense



you were saying?

:facepalm
It must be nice to be as delusional as you are. I mean you must go through life happy as can be because you're never wrong about anything. In this thread alone you've made your usual terrible arguments with badly flawed logic, yet you've convinced yourself you're "batting every turd thrown at you right back in our faces."

[GrapeApe]

Kenneth, do you realize by arguing that Jordan didn't deserve the '88 MVP you're essentially strengthening the argument that Kobe didn't deserve the '06 MVP? You're inadvertantly arguing against Kobe.

[Asukal]

Denial is a bitch so is the OP. :oldlol:

[kennethgriffin]

Kenneth, do you realize by arguing that Jordan didn't deserve the '88 MVP you're essentially strengthening the argument that Kobe didn't deserve the '06 MVP? You're inadvertantly arguing against Kobe.


that's actually the basis for my entire point

i asked twice already

pick one

either

magic or bird are 1988 mvp and duncan is 2003 mvp, nash is 2006 mvp, dirk is 2007 mvp

or

jordan is 1988 mvp and kobe is 2003 mvp, kobe is 2006 mvp and kobe is 2007 mvp


you decide

is discounting just ONE of MJ's mvps worth saying kobe didnt deserve 3 more?

make up your mind


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtsyzdzsUFk


ONE! MORE! TIME!

[SouBeachTalents]

that's actually the basis for my entire point

i asked twice already

pick one

either

magic or bird are 1988 mvp and duncan is 2003 mvp, nash is 2006 mvp, dirk is 2007 mvp

or

jordan is 1988 mvp and kobe is 2003 mvp, kobe is 2006 mvp and kobe is 2007 mvp


you decide

is discounting just ONE of MJ's mvps worth saying kobe didnt deserve 3 more?

make up your mind


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtsyzdzsUFk


ONE! MORE! TIME!

Except this is a bad analogy because Jordan's '88 is clearly better than all 3 of those Kobe seasons

[kennethgriffin]

Except this is a bad analogy because Jordan's '88 is clearly better than all 3 of those Kobe seasons
thats not the question though

jordan wasnt battling kobe for the 1988 mvp

he was battling magic and bird.. who had much better records and mvp stats of their own


try and take your head out of your ass and try to understand whats going on here you weak minded little man

:lol

[kennethgriffin]

Actually (I could be wrong).. but he's arguing if MJ deserved MJ that year, so did Kobe in 06-07. I agree that Kobe deserved it, but two wrongs don't make a right really.. MJ was also robbed by Karl Malone in 97.


IMO, if it were up to the players we wouldn't have these problems. Kobe in 06, 07 and 08.. MJ throughout the 90s and late 80s.. LeBron in 2011 etc etc.
pretty much this


if it were up to the players and they didnt have espn influence. just voted on what they saw on the court

i think MVPs would have gone


1988 - Bird
1989 - Magic
1990 - Jordan
1991 - Jordan
1992 - Jordan
1993 - Jordan
1994 - hakeem
1995 - hakeem
1996 - jordan
1997 - jordan
1998 - Jordan
1999 - malone
2000 - shaq
2001 - shaq
2002 - shaq
2003 - kobe
2004 - garnett
2005 - shaq
2006 - kobe
2007 - kobe
2008 - kobe
2009 - kobe
2010 - kobe or lebron
2011 - lebron
2012 - lebron
2013 - lebron
2014 - lebron

[GrapeApe]

that's actually the basis for my entire point

i asked twice already

pick one

either

magic or bird are 1988 mvp and duncan is 2003 mvp, nash is 2006 mvp, dirk is 2007 mvp

or

jordan is 1988 mvp and kobe is 2003 mvp, kobe is 2006 mvp and kobe is 2007 mvp


you decide

is discounting just ONE of MJ's mvps worth saying kobe didnt deserve 3 more?

make up your mind


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtsyzdzsUFk


ONE! MORE! TIME!

I don't have a dog in the fight. I'm no Jordan mythologist. Perhaps he didn't deserve the '88 award. In fact I never claimed he did. I just know that a player on a 45 win team isn't winning an MVP.

[kennethgriffin]

I don't have a dog in the fight. I'm no Jordan mythologist. Perhaps he didn't deserve the '88 award. In fact I never claimed he did. I just know that a player on a 45 win team isn't winning an MVP.

someone else raised this argument.

so i mentioned kobes 2003 season

it mirrors the 1988 mvp race nearly exactly the same.

kobe had the same record as the 1988 bulls. 50-32. and kobe averaged 30/7/6 ( best numbers by anyone with a 50+ win team )


but duncan with like 21/12/3 won mvp cause he had 60 wins.

the criteria that should have made magic or bird mvp in 1988


and i think there has been league mvps with 45 wins before. but they were player votes

[DatAsh]

someone else raised this argument.

so i mentioned kobes 2003 season

it mirrors the 1988 mvp race nearly exactly the same.

kobe had the same record as the 1988 bulls. 50-32. and kobe averaged 30/7/6 ( best numbers by anyone with a 50+ win team )


but duncan with like 21/12/3 won mvp cause he had 60 wins.

the criteria that should have made magic or bird mvp in 1988


and i think there has been league mvps with 45 wins before. but they were player votes

2003 had a lot to do with Shaq. Quite a few people don't see Kobe as the best player on the team. If Jordan had been playing with a player arguably better than himself in 88' there's no way he would have won.

[kennethgriffin]

2003 had a lot to do with Shaq. Quite a few people don't see Kobe as the best player on the team. If Jordan had been playing with a player arguably better than himself in 88' there's no way he would have won.

i think kobe took over the lakers in 2003

shaq averaged 3 less points per game

that was the year kobe had that 9 straight 40+ run, the 12 threes in a game. he was far and away the leagues most popular player too

[ZMonkey11]

You're making excuses now. Bad ones. Assists, shooting percentages, and rebounds count.

The year Zeke and Rodman made their comments, Bird averaged 28/9/7 and had 50/90/40% season. Most players, regardless of race and ability, could only dream of putting up those types numbers. That includes Thomas, the real overrated player in this discussion.

Oh hold up hell nah. This is the man that truly led his troops through arguably 4 GOATs en route to his first championship. :biggums:

[jlip]

I haven't read through the thread, and am more than likely repeating sentiments that have already been expressed, but Bird was praised for his "all around game" not primarily his "scoring." See below.


June 4, 1985 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=HTxWAAAAIBAJ&sjid=tekDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6051,1310355&dq=larry+bird+greatest+player+all+time&hl=en)

Coach George Karl of the Cleveland Cavaliers told ray Didinger of the Knight News Service: “Bird is so far ahead of everyone else, he’s in a different century. I’ve never seen anyone better. “Given the choice between Kareem (Jabbar) and Bird, I’d take Bird. He rebounds like a center, passes like a guard, shoots lights out from 20 feet. Besides all that, he’s a killer. Hell do anything to win.”

March 3, 1986 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/1998/bird/flashbacks/1986flash.html)

"As Nearly Perfect As You Can Get"

"[/B] Even Laker general manager Jerry West, who refuses to compare players from different eras, says of Bird, "He is as nearly perfect as you can get in almost every phase of basketball."

April 1, 1986 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=KcEsAAAAIBAJ&sjid=IRQEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5550,58071&dq=larry+bird+greatest+player+all+time&hl=en)

The NBA’s best all around player—the skillful passer, the determined rebounder and the tenacious defender—now is a spectacular shooter with both hands and from all over the court…

In his seventh NBA season, Bird is in the top 10 in five of the league’s major categories. He leads the NBA in foul shooting percentage (.897), is fourth in scoring (26.4 per game average), third in three- point percentage (.433), ninth in steals (2.07 average) and seventh in rebound average (10.0).

May 25, 1986 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=TCocAAAAIBAJ&sjid=BlwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2216,5422724&dq=larry+bird+best+ever&hl=en)

Bird is the best all- around player ever. How many guys have a superior talent and a tremendous work ethic? He’s one millionaire athlete who is underpaid.

June 9, 1986 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=f9YyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=yKYFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6150,10160456&dq=larry+bird+best+ever&hl=en)

With his incineration of the Houston Rockets in the sixth and final game of the NBA finals, Larry Bird added another large page to the resume that he’s amassing as the best all- around player in basketball history.


Nov. 13, 1986 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=VdM0AAAAIBAJ&sjid=4m0DAAAAIBAJ&pg=2445,4483279&dq=larry+bird+greatest+player+all+time&hl=en)

"Question on Bird: Is he the best ever?"

There have been other great shooters, other great rebounders, other great passes, but none has ever put all those skills together than Bird has.


June 15, 1988 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=_sAqAAAAIBAJ&sjid=0swFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1105,7996769&dq=larry+bird+best+ever&hl=en)

While several said Bird might be the best all- around player ever…

[T_L_P]

i think kobe took over the lakers in 2003

shaq averaged 3 less points per game

that was the year kobe had that 9 straight 40+ run, the 12 threes in a game. he was far and away the leagues most popular player too

Did Kobe have the stats? If you take into account shooting (.550 TS% to Duncan's .565), probably not.

Did he have the intangibles? Duncan was playing much better defense and he was the clear-cut leader of his team, so nope.

Did he have the record? Duncan won 10 more games and Kobe's record without Shaq was laughable.

Garnett's stats and record were also better than Kobe's.

[DatAsh]

i think kobe took over the lakers in 2003

shaq averaged 3 less points per game

that was the year kobe had that 9 straight 40+ run, the 12 threes in a game. he was far and away the leagues most popular player too

I wasn't really commenting one way or the other in terms of who the better player was, rather I was pointing to a key difference between 03' and 88'.
Shaq and Kobe were closer as players - and thus more likely to split votes - than Jordan and Pippen were.

[La Frescobaldi]

Oh hold up hell nah. This is the man that truly led his troops through arguably 4 GOATs en route to his first championship. :biggums:
naturally all that got forgot didn't it. dude was beyond fire at that time frame

[jlip]

Oh hold up hell nah. This is the man that truly led his troops through arguably 4 GOATs en route to his first championship. :biggums:

Are you considering Magic who barely played two games in the '89 Finals and 42 year old Kareem in his last season as 2 of those arguable 4 GOATs? I know the '89 Pistons went through MJ and the Bulls. Who is the 4th GOAT candidate? Bird didn't play for the Celtics that season.

[bizil]

Frankly, I don't think Rodman or Isiah were that stupid to really think that. They were jealous of the attention Bird was getting. I think they meant to say if Bird wasn't white, that the media and millions across the world wouldn't be as fascinated. Overrated means he doesn't deserve the accolades he was getting. A fascination means that you are really interested in something and u want to learn about, watch it, or enjoy it. Bird was the best player in the L along with Magic and MJ. But the fact that Bird was dominating a league with mostly blacks was fascinating to the media and many others across the world.

However, Bird SURE AS HELL wasn't overrated! He's one of the minute few who you could never say enough good things about. And I HATED Bird growing up because I was a huge Dr. J fan. And as Dr. J winded down, I was a huge Magic and Lakers fan. It had nothing to do with him being white. I knew as a kid he was a bad boy and the best in the world! To have that kind of skill in a player the size of many PF's was never really seen before for a cat 6'9.

[9erempiree]

Is that your exact pick up line on little girls?

I usually read an entire thread before posting but I just got to get this in.....you had to do him like that.

PWNED.:lol

[Mure]

Larry > Kobe and it isn't close.

[StephHamann]

Is that your exact pick up line on little girls?

http://i.imgur.com/oN2fyRZ.gif

[Stringer Bell]

24/10/6 for a career is really, really impressive.