ISH Hall of Fame Project: Class of 1990 Voting

[G.O.A.T]

Inside Hoops Hall of Fame Project

http://cdn.7boom.mx/content/boom-img/13ac2081.jpeg

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This thread is for the voting on the class of 1990.

You may make your own list or Copy and Paste the Ballot Below and bold the names of the players you want to vote into our Hall of Fame.

You can vote for up to ten players, but don't need to vote for any.

Base your selections and arguments on a players pro career (not just NB, but all pro leagues) as well as AAU (pre-1970), International and Olympic play. Do not consider a players impact off the court as that will be addressed when we vote in pioneers and contributors.

Feel free to include any arguments you want to make on behalf of any of the players or against any of the players.

Also this is the time to nominate any players I have not listed that were retired before 1990. If you do nominate a player please include a 2-4 sentence profile as I have done for other nominees. (I'll edit or add if need be)

Anyone who is not yet involved in the project may participate in this round as well, please check in within this thread or via PM to me and I'll add you too our roster.


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Players eligible for the first time

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - Sky Hook.

Julius Erving - Only doctor I know with an NBA MVP trophy.

George Gervin - The Iceman won four scoring titles, was named to five all-NBA first teams, seven in total and averaged 26-6-3-1 over 12 prime seasons.

Artis Gilmore - 1972 ABA rookie of the year and MVP. 1975 ABA playoff MVP on Championship winning Kentucky Colonels. In 5 ABA seasons made 5 all-ABA 1st teams, 5 all-star teams. made six more NBA all-star teams.

Dan Issel - 6x ABA all-star, 5x all-ABA, second leading scorer on ABA history. 13 prime seasons (7 NBA) of 23-10-3-1 as top perimeter shooting big man of his day.

Bobby Jones - Defensive standout and sixth man extraordinaire for the 1983 Champion Sixers. 5x all-star, 11x all-defensive first team in first 11 seasons. 9 NBA, 2 ABA

Maurice Lucas - 2nd best player on 1977 NBA Champions; leading scorer, second leading rebounder. 17-10-3-1 over 9 prime seasons; 5x all-star 1x all-NBA 2x all-defense

Bob McAdoo - 1975 MVP, 3x scoring champion, 28-12-3-2 over seven prime seasons; 5x all-star, 2x all-NBA, won two titles with Lakers later in career including playing pivitol sixth man role in 1982.

Norm Nixon - 2x all-star; 3rd/4th best player on 1980 and 1985 Champions 17-3-9-2 over seven prime seasons

Ralph Sampson - 1983 Rookie of the year teamed with Olajuwon to led Houston to 1986 NBA Finals. 21-11-3-1-2 in three prime seasons.

Bill Walton - 1978 MVP; 1977 Finals MVP on World Champion Blazers. 1986 Sixth man of the year on World Champion Celtics. Injured pretty much every other season.

Jamaal Wilkes - 1975 rookie of the year and 2nd best player on world Champion Warriors. 3rd/4th best player on 1980 and 1982 NBA Champions. Versatile two-way forward 3x all-star, 2x all-defense

Gus Williams - Leading scorer and arguably best player on 1979 Champion Sonics. 1981 all-NBA first team, 2x all-star, 1x all-nba 2nd team. 20-3-6-2 in 7 prime seasons.


Players still eligible after receiving multiple votes in the previous classes

David Thompson
Bob Lanier
Neil Johnston
Sergei Belov
Gus Johnson
Lenny Wilkens
Dave Bing
George McGinnis


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Player Elected Thus Far


Tiny Archibald
Paul Arizin
Rick Barry (unanimous)
Elgin Baylor (unanimous)
Wilt Chamberlain (unanimous)
Bob Cousy (unanimous)
Dave Cowens
Billy Cunningham
Mel Daniels
Bob Davies
Dave Debusschere
Walt Frazier (unanimous)
Joe Fulks
Hal Greer
John Havlicek (unanimous)
Connie Hawkins
Elvin Hayes
Tom Heinsohn
Sam Jones (unanimous)
Jerry Lucas
Ed Macauley
Pete Maravich
Bobby McDermott
George Mikan (unanimous)
Earl Monroe
Bob Pettit (unanimous)
Willis Reed (unanimous)
Oscar Robertson (unanimous)
Bill Russell (unanimous)
Dolph Schayes
Bill Shaman
Maurice Stokes
Nate Thurmond
Westley Unseld (unanimous)
Jerry West (unanimous)




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Committee Members

G.O.A.T - 30's - Pistons/General
L. Kizzle - 20's - Rockets
Gotterdammerung - 30's - Rockets/General
MP.Trey - 20's - Cavs
WillC -
kshutts1 - 30's - Bulls/Lakers
dankok8 - Raptors
Fpliii - 20's - Lakers/Knicks
magnax1 - 20's - Jazz
JohnFreeman - 20's - Kings
gts -
SexSymbol - 20's - Lakers/Bobcats
hangintheair - 20's - Hornets
riseagainst -
nightprowler10 - 30's - Bulls
Jlip -
Smook A. -
longhornfan1234 - 20's - Spurs
bballnoob1192 - 20's - Lakers
Arbitrary Water -


Bold = Has Voted
Italics = Active


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Voting Results so Far

11 ballots cast

(11) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
(11) Julius Erving
(11) George Gervin
(10) Bill Walton
(10) Bob McAdoo
(10) Artis Gilmore
(6) Bobby Jones
(5) Lenny Wilkens
(5) Sergi Belov
(4) David Thompson
(4) Neil Johnston
(3) George McGinnis
(3) Dan Issel
(3) Bob Lanier
(2) Dave Bing
(1) George McGinnis
(2) Gus Johnson







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[JohnFreeman]

Erving
Jabbar
Walton

[G.O.A.T]

^ you've been very strict with your selections, what are you looking for to make you decide on who you elect?

Who have made for the hardest decisions for you so far?

[L.Kizzle]

George Gervin is missing.

[L.Kizzle]

http://cdn.7boom.mx/content/boom-img/13ac2081.jpeg
This isn't geared toward you, just this photo. Scary Movie came out in the year 2000.

[G.O.A.T]

Thanks for catching the gervin miss, did it before bed last night, as for the image, 1990 was surprisingly the hardest year to find an image for.

[JohnFreeman]

^ you've been very strict with your selections, what are you looking for to make you decide on who you elect?

Who have made for the hardest decisions for you so far?
I am the eye test voter of this board haha

[MP.Trey]

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - Serious case for GOAT. Easiest vote yet.

Julius Erving - Not just a dunker. One of the most innovative players and talented scorers this game has seen. He gets in for the afro alone.

Bill Walton - Pulling the Maurice Stokes card and saying "f*ck longevity". He had everything you could ever want in a Center. Leadership, Great outlet passing ability off the boards as well as in the halfcourt, tenacious rebounding, he was a defensive anchor and led the league in blocks AND rebounds in 77. Didn't have the post moves of a Hakeem or a McHAle but he had an efficient low post game and could take over the game for stretches if/when he needed. The Blazers from 76-78 were 109-37 with Walton and 14-31 without him. Tell me he doesn't deserve a HOF bid. Shame injuries derailed him but he was still able to play a pivotal role on the Celts well into his thirties.

Bob McAdoo - 1975 MVP, 3x scoring champion, 28-12-3-2 over seven prime seasons; 5x all-star, 2x all-NBA, won two titles with Lakers later in career including playing pivitol sixth man role in 1982. Very talented scorer, big man with a deadly jumper. Pretty much the prototype for the oh so common stretch 4 that we see today.

Artis Gilmore - 1972 ABA rookie of the year and MVP. 1975 ABA playoff MVP on Championship winning Kentucky Colonels. In 5 ABA seasons made 5 all-ABA 1st teams, 5 all-star teams. made six more NBA all-star teams. Very strong. Very athletic. Great on the boards and came up huge in many playoff series. Also, I'm voting for the fro.

George "The Iceman" Gervin - Probably the smoothest scorer in the history of the game. Trademarked the finger-roll. 12x All-Star, 7x All-NBA, shame he never got any real playoff success.

Bobby Jones - Cut from the same cloth as Dave Debusschere. Defensive standout and sixth man extraordinaire for the 1983 Champion Sixers. 5x all-star, 11x all-defensive first team in first 11 seasons. 9 NBA, 2 ABA.

Sergei Belov - Best player, main scorer and main reason the USSR was able to beat USA and win the 1972 Gold Medal at the Olympics. 3x Bronze medal as big time impact player. 11x USSR league champion, 2x USSR Cup champion, 2x Euroleague champion. 2x World Cup champion 4x Eurobasket champion. Eurobasket MVP. Voted #1 on FIBA's top 50 player list made in 1991. Above names like Drazen Petrovic, Arvydas Sabonis, Toni Kukoc, Niko Galis & Oscar Schmidt.



That's 8 votes. Will edit in 2 more when I decide between many players like Johnston, Lanier, Thompson, Issel & Gus, etc.

[SexSymbol]

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - Sky Hook.

Julius Erving - Only doctor I know with an NBA MVP trophy.

George Gervin - The Iceman won four scoring titles, was named to five all-NBA first teams, seven in total and averaged 26-6-3-1 over 12 prime seasons.

Artis Gilmore - 1972 ABA rookie of the year and MVP. 1975 ABA playoff MVP on Championship winning Kentucky Colonels. In 5 ABA seasons made 5 all-ABA 1st teams, 5 all-star teams. made six more NBA all-star teams.

Dan Issel - 6x ABA all-star, 5x all-ABA, second leading scorer on ABA history. 13 prime seasons (7 NBA) of 23-10-3-1 as top perimeter shooting big man of his day.

Bobby Jones - Defensive standout and sixth man extraordinaire for the 1983 Champion Sixers. 5x all-star, 11x all-defensive first team in first 11 seasons. 9 NBA, 2 ABA

Maurice Lucas - 2nd best player on 1977 NBA Champions; leading scorer, second leading rebounder. 17-10-3-1 over 9 prime seasons; 5x all-star 1x all-NBA 2x all-defense

Bob McAdoo - 1975 MVP, 3x scoring champion, 28-12-3-2 over seven prime seasons; 5x all-star, 2x all-NBA, won two titles with Lakers later in career including playing pivitol sixth man role in 1982.

Norm Nixon - 2x all-star; 3rd/4th best player on 1980 and 1985 Champions 17-3-9-2 over seven prime seasons

Ralph Sampson - 1983 Rookie of the year teamed with Olajuwon to led Houston to 1986 NBA Finals. 21-11-3-1-2 in three prime seasons.

Bill Walton - 1978 MVP; 1977 Finals MVP on World Champion Blazers. 1986 Sixth man of the year on World Champion Celtics. Injured pretty much every other season.

Jamaal Wilkes - 1975 rookie of the year and 2nd best player on world Champion Warriors. 3rd/4th best player on 1980 and 1982 NBA Champions. Versatile two-way forward 3x all-star, 2x all-defense

Gus Williams - Leading scorer and arguably best player on 1979 Champion Sonics. 1981 all-NBA first team, 2x all-star, 1x all-nba 2nd team. 20-3-6-2 in 7 prime seasons.


David Thompson
Bob Lanier
Neil Johnston
Sergei Belov
Gus Johnson
Lenny Wilkens
Dave Bing
George McGinnis

[Gotterdammerung]

First Ballot:
Kareem Abdul Jabbar. You could argue his prime lasted 20 years.
:biggums:
Doctor J. The most unstoppable finisher of all time.
Iceman. The sweatless unstoppable scoring machine.
Bill Walton. The most injured Hall of Fame talent.
Bob McAdoo. Underrated scoring machine that was 40 years ahead of the times.

Second Ballot
Bobby Jones.
Dan Issel.
David Thompson.
Lenny Wilkens.

ETA:
I can't believe I forgot the A-Train.
Second ballot.

That brings my total to 10
:yaohappy:

[G.O.A.T]

@ SexSymbol

You can only vote for ten players. You have 12.

Great Class at the top and between the second tier guys here and the carry overs, a lot of interesting choices.


These guys are locks

MVPs, All-NBA's, Champions and the best at what they did.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Julius Erving
George Gervin
Artis Gilmore
Bill Walton
Bob McAdoo

These guys warrant serious consideration
Sergei Belov
Bob Lanier
Lenny Wilkens
Dave Bing
George McGinnis
Gus Johnson


These guys could be but not based on our precedent
Dan Issel
Bobby Jones
Maurice Lucas
Neil Johnston
Jamaal Wilkes
David Thompson

I'll cast votes for the first six, Wilkens and Belov for sure. I'll use my other two strategically based on what others do.

[dankok8]

Players eligible for the first time

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - Sky Hook. Lock.

Julius Erving - Only doctor I know with an NBA MVP trophy. Lock.

George Gervin - The Iceman won four scoring titles, was named to five all-NBA first teams, seven in total and averaged 26-6-3-1 over 12 prime seasons. Lock.

Artis Gilmore - 1972 ABA rookie of the year and MVP. 1975 ABA playoff MVP on Championship winning Kentucky Colonels. In 5 ABA seasons made 5 all-ABA 1st teams, 5 all-star teams. made six more NBA all-star teams. Almost a lock. I don't value ABA as much as most but he still was a very good player for 8-9 years in the NBA. Physically dominant center to the extreme just seemed to lack motivation at times.

Dan Issel - 6x ABA all-star, 5x all-ABA, second leading scorer on ABA history. 13 prime seasons (7 NBA) of 23-10-3-1 as top perimeter shooting big man of his day. Nope. Not much done in the NBA. A shooting big man who's soft inside ala prime Rashard Lewis.

Bobby Jones - Defensive standout and sixth man extraordinaire for the 1983 Champion Sixers. 5x all-star, 11x all-defensive first team in first 11 seasons. 9 NBA, 2 ABA Not a slam dunk but he was such a defensive stalwart, one of the GOAT defenders at his position if not the best. Excellent rebounder, passer, and could also throw down some mean dunks. Crazy athletic for a "white guy".

Maurice Lucas - 2nd best player on 1977 NBA Champions; leading scorer, second leading rebounder. 17-10-3-1 over 9 prime seasons; 5x all-star 1x all-NBA 2x all-defense Nope.

Bob McAdoo - 1975 MVP, 3x scoring champion, 28-12-3-2 over seven prime seasons; 5x all-star, 2x all-NBA, won two titles with Lakers later in career including playing pivitol sixth man role in 1982. Lock. Quite honestly a top 50 player as well and his omission in 1997 was a disgrace. His 3-year peak is just monstrous and despite his lack of longevity he had 6-7 elite years. His role on those two Showtime title teams was pretty significant as well.

Norm Nixon - 2x all-star; 3rd/4th best player on 1980 and 1985 Champions 17-3-9-2 over seven prime seasons Nah... 2x all-star, just not that caliber of player.

Ralph Sampson - 1983 Rookie of the year teamed with Olajuwon to led Houston to 1986 NBA Finals. 21-11-3-1-2 in three prime seasons. NBA career way too short.

Bill Walton - 1978 MVP; 1977 Finals MVP on World Champion Blazers. 1986 Sixth man of the year on World Champion Celtics. Injured pretty much every other season. I value longevity a lot but I give Walton the nod because he was just so transcendent in his 1.5-year peak. Many observers called him the best center they ever saw. That's good enough to make the HOF to me.

Jamaal Wilkes - 1975 rookie of the year and 2nd best player on world Champion Warriors. 3rd/4th best player on 1980 and 1982 NBA Champions. Versatile two-way forward 3x all-star, 2x all-defense Nah... same as Nixon just not great enough.

Gus Williams - Leading scorer and arguably best player on 1979 Champion Sonics. 1981 all-NBA first team, 2x all-star, 1x all-nba 2nd team. 20-3-6-2 in 7 prime seasons. I'll listen if someone makes an argument for Gus. He played simply spectacular in the 1979 playoffs and it's hard to ignore. I decided to leave him off because consistency matters. His season numbers are pedestrian and just 2x all-star ==> not HOF.


Players still eligible after receiving multiple votes in the previous classes

David Thompson
Bob Lanier - 10 years of 20/10 or close to that and on good efficiency; epitome of consistency
Neil Johnston - explained it before many times
Sergei Belov
Gus Johnson
Lenny Wilkens - I kind of overlooked him. He had a pretty great career for that era.
Dave Bing
George McGinnis

[L.Kizzle]

sid someone just call Dan Issel soft?

[L.Kizzle]

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - Lew Alcindor.

Julius Erving - Smooth operator.

George Gervin - The Iceman.

Artis Gilmore - 2nd best afro in front of Dr. J and Kenon but behind Darnell Hillman.

Dan Issel - Was a tough shooting big man in the 70s and 80s.

Bobby Jones - Great defender for the ABA and the NBA.

Maurice Lucas - A mold for the modern day enforcer. Did I say modern day, I mean 1990s ... haven't had an enforcer in the league in a while. The Oakleys, Buck Williams, X-Mans, Rodmans, Laimbeers, Mahorns, PJ Browns of the world are gone.

Bob McAdoo - Maybe the first center with range.

Norm Nixon - Was a top guards in the early 80s. But was he closer to the Otis Birdsongs and Micheal Rays rather than the Magics and Isiahs?

Ralph Sampson - Hit the greatest shot ever in 1986 to beat the Lakers. :eek:

Bill Walton - I think he smoked weed with Alice Cooper.

Jamaal Wilkes - The Bob Dandridge of this class, will it be enough to get him in ...

Gus Williams - See Norm Nixon.



David Thompson
Bob Lanier
Neil Johnston
Sergei Belov
Gus Johnson
Lenny Wilkens
Dave Bing
George McGinnis

[magnax1]

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - Sky Hook.

Julius Erving - Only doctor I know with an NBA MVP trophy.

George Gervin - The Iceman won four scoring titles, was named to five all-NBA first teams, seven in total and averaged 26-6-3-1 over 12 prime seasons.

Artis Gilmore - 1972 ABA rookie of the year and MVP. 1975 ABA playoff MVP on Championship winning Kentucky Colonels. In 5 ABA seasons made 5 all-ABA 1st teams, 5 all-star teams. made six more NBA all-star teams.

Bob McAdoo - 1975 MVP, 3x scoring champion, 28-12-3-2 over seven prime seasons; 5x all-star, 2x all-NBA, won two titles with Lakers later in career including playing pivitol sixth man role in 1982.


Bill Walton - 1978 MVP; 1977 Finals MVP on World Champion Blazers. 1986 Sixth man of the year on World Champion Celtics. Injured pretty much every other season.





David Thompson

Neil Johnston

George McGinnis

I'm iffy on Issell. I could be convinced.
Honestly, not in love with Walton when he only played 2 all NBA seasons, but he was an MVP, so that's enough for me.

[G.O.A.T]

I am the eye test voter of this board haha

Did you want to vote for Gervin? you left him off before I added him to nominees...


@ SexSymbol... you need to elimate two players you voted for...10 max per round

Voting Results so Far

8 ballots cast

(8) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
(8) Julius Erving
(8) Bill Walton
(7) George Gervin
(7) Bob McAdoo
(7) Artis Gilmore
(4) Lenny Wilkens
(4) Bobby Jones
(4) David Thompson
(3) Sergi Belov
(3) George McGinnis
(2) Dan Issel
(2) George McGinnis
(1) Bob Lanier
(1) Dave Bing
(1) Gus Johnson

(sex symbol needs to eliminate two votes still)





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[L.Kizzle]

Sex Symbol (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks3hDBefQs4)

[JohnFreeman]

Gervin

[L.Kizzle]

Gervin
Why did you vote for Walton (and other MVP big the past round Wes and Reed) abut not McAdoo? Also, you didn't vote for Cowens either?

[kshutts1]

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - Sky Hook.

Julius Erving - Only doctor I know with an NBA MVP trophy.

George Gervin - The Iceman won four scoring titles, was named to five all-NBA first teams, seven in total and averaged 26-6-3-1 over 12 prime seasons.

Artis Gilmore - 1972 ABA rookie of the year and MVP. 1975 ABA playoff MVP on Championship winning Kentucky Colonels. In 5 ABA seasons made 5 all-ABA 1st teams, 5 all-star teams. made six more NBA all-star teams.

Dan Issel - 6x ABA all-star, 5x all-ABA, second leading scorer on ABA history. 13 prime seasons (7 NBA) of 23-10-3-1 as top perimeter shooting big man of his day.

Bobby Jones - Defensive standout and sixth man extraordinaire for the 1983 Champion Sixers. 5x all-star, 11x all-defensive first team in first 11 seasons. 9 NBA, 2 ABA

Maurice Lucas - 2nd best player on 1977 NBA Champions; leading scorer, second leading rebounder. 17-10-3-1 over 9 prime seasons; 5x all-star 1x all-NBA 2x all-defense

Bob McAdoo - 1975 MVP, 3x scoring champion, 28-12-3-2 over seven prime seasons; 5x all-star, 2x all-NBA, won two titles with Lakers later in career including playing pivitol sixth man role in 1982.

Norm Nixon - 2x all-star; 3rd/4th best player on 1980 and 1985 Champions 17-3-9-2 over seven prime seasons

Ralph Sampson - 1983 Rookie of the year teamed with Olajuwon to led Houston to 1986 NBA Finals. 21-11-3-1-2 in three prime seasons.

Bill Walton - 1978 MVP; 1977 Finals MVP on World Champion Blazers. 1986 Sixth man of the year on World Champion Celtics. Injured pretty much every other season. --- So sad. I'd vote him for a contributor, but not as a player.

Jamaal Wilkes - 1975 rookie of the year and 2nd best player on world Champion Warriors. 3rd/4th best player on 1980 and 1982 NBA Champions. Versatile two-way forward 3x all-star, 2x all-defense

Gus Williams - Leading scorer and arguably best player on 1979 Champion Sonics. 1981 all-NBA first team, 2x all-star, 1x all-nba 2nd team. 20-3-6-2 in 7 prime seasons.


Players still eligible after receiving multiple votes in the previous classes

David Thompson
Bob Lanier
Neil Johnston
Sergei Belov
Gus Johnson
Lenny Wilkens
Dave Bing
George McGinnis

Pretty weak class. I expected more. A few locks, then a few to debate.

[kshutts1]

These guys could be but not based on our precedent
Dan Issel
Bobby Jones
Maurice Lucas
Neil Johnston
Jamaal Wilkes
David Thompson

I'll cast votes for the first six, Wilkens and Belov for sure. I'll use my other two strategically based on what others do.
What precedent did we set that, in your mind, eliminates the second leading scorer of a major professional league?
Has there been a distinct de-valuing of the ABA as a whole? I know some posters do, but have we as a group?

[kshutts1]

And just to everyone... Bill Walton is the pick I'm most struggling with right now. I understand the arguments for him. He was pretty transcendent in his... TWO valid years.

No denying his talent and ability, but the career was ruined by injuries.

I'm one of the people that voted for Stokes, and I admitted in a later thread it was a mistake. I just don't think a career spanning twelve seasons, but with only 468 (roughly 6 seasons worth) games played, and only 3 seasons with 60 or more games. 6 seasons with 50 or more games, and that's including basically his last two when he was mostly a bench player.

I hate leaving him out, because he could have done so much. But he didn't.

[L.Kizzle]

What precedent did we set that, in your mind, eliminates the second leading scorer of a major professional league?
Has there been a distinct de-valuing of the ABA as a whole? I know some posters do, but have we as a group?
Louie Dampier isn't in. Never been on the ballot. You never bought his name up.

[MP.Trey]

GOAT, I'm going to cast my last two votes for Bob Lanier & Dave Bing to keep them on the ballot if nothing else.

[WillC]

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

Julius Erving

George Gervin

Artis Gilmore

Dan Issel - An underrated all-time great. One of the best players in ABA history, an ABA champion, a prolific scorer, tremendous shooter for his position, put up similar numbers in the NBA to ABA (so you can't say he dominated against weaker competition). He's a Hall of Famer.

Bob McAdoo

Bill Walton

Lenny Wilkens - One of the top 3 or 4 guards of his era.

Neil Johnston - Getting overlooked in the voting. Prolific scorer and rebounder who led the league in both categories... and you can't say they were empty stats because his team won games (and a championship). Also led the league in FG% so he wasn't a chucker. Only 3 players have led the league in PPG, RPG and FG% at one point or another of their respective careers: Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.... and Neil Johnston.

Bob Lanier - Played for some pretty bad teams but was consistently very good for long enough to make the Hall of Fame in my opinion.

[SexSymbol]

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - Sky Hook.

Julius Erving - Only doctor I know with an NBA MVP trophy.

George Gervin - The Iceman won four scoring titles, was named to five all-NBA first teams, seven in total and averaged 26-6-3-1 over 12 prime seasons.

Artis Gilmore - 1972 ABA rookie of the year and MVP. 1975 ABA playoff MVP on Championship winning Kentucky Colonels. In 5 ABA seasons made 5 all-ABA 1st teams, 5 all-star teams. made six more NBA all-star teams.

Dan Issel - 6x ABA all-star, 5x all-ABA, second leading scorer on ABA history. 13 prime seasons (7 NBA) of 23-10-3-1 as top perimeter shooting big man of his day.

Bobby Jones - Defensive standout and sixth man extraordinaire for the 1983 Champion Sixers. 5x all-star, 11x all-defensive first team in first 11 seasons. 9 NBA, 2 ABA

Maurice Lucas - 2nd best player on 1977 NBA Champions; leading scorer, second leading rebounder. 17-10-3-1 over 9 prime seasons; 5x all-star 1x all-NBA 2x all-defense

Bob McAdoo - 1975 MVP, 3x scoring champion, 28-12-3-2 over seven prime seasons; 5x all-star, 2x all-NBA, won two titles with Lakers later in career including playing pivitol sixth man role in 1982.

Norm Nixon - 2x all-star; 3rd/4th best player on 1980 and 1985 Champions 17-3-9-2 over seven prime seasons

Ralph Sampson - 1983 Rookie of the year teamed with Olajuwon to led Houston to 1986 NBA Finals. 21-11-3-1-2 in three prime seasons.

Bill Walton - 1978 MVP; 1977 Finals MVP on World Champion Blazers. 1986 Sixth man of the year on World Champion Celtics. Injured pretty much every other season.

Jamaal Wilkes - 1975 rookie of the year and 2nd best player on world Champion Warriors. 3rd/4th best player on 1980 and 1982 NBA Champions. Versatile two-way forward 3x all-star, 2x all-defense

Gus Williams - Leading scorer and arguably best player on 1979 Champion Sonics. 1981 all-NBA first team, 2x all-star, 1x all-nba 2nd team. 20-3-6-2 in 7 prime seasons.


David Thompson
Bob Lanier
Neil Johnston
Sergei Belov
Gus Johnson
Lenny Wilkens
Dave Bing
George McGinnis
I choose to eliminate Lenny Wilkens and George McGinnis from my ballot

[L.Kizzle]

Lenny Wilkens - One of the top 3 or 4 guards of his era.
How does he compare to Hal Greer and Sam Jones? Those two were usually next in line after O and West.

[G.O.A.T]

What precedent did we set that, in your mind, eliminates the second leading scorer of a major professional league?
Has there been a distinct de-valuing of the ABA as a whole? I know some posters do, but have we as a group?

No one even mentioned Louie Dampier who leads that league in all-time scoring.

And I don't think we've devalued the ABA thus far. Mel Daniels got in, Connie Hawkins too. Billy Cunningham, that's four MVP's out of ten. Doc has three, he's getting in. Artis looks solid too. That only leaves Haywood and McGinnis (who still has a shot)

The fact is that most of the ABA's best players were NBA stars before or after. We've ignored guys like Zelmo Beaty, Roger Brown and Dampier who played huge roles on title teams because the rest of their careers aren't elite. Same thing with NBA guys like Chet Walker, Cliff Hagan and Bob Dandridge. I think we've done okay.


And just to everyone... Bill Walton is the pick I'm most struggling with right now. I understand the arguments for him. He was pretty transcendent in his... TWO valid years.

No denying his talent and ability, but the career was ruined by injuries.

I'm one of the people that voted for Stokes, and I admitted in a later thread it was a mistake. I just don't think a career spanning twelve seasons, but with only 468 (roughly 6 seasons worth) games played, and only 3 seasons with 60 or more games. 6 seasons with 50 or more games, and that's including basically his last two when he was mostly a bench player.

I hate leaving him out, because he could have done so much. But he didn't.

The reason I voted for him, and I believe many share my sentiments is that in his two almost healthy prime seasons he managed to win an MVP, led a team to the title, led a team to the leagues record and win a Finals MVP. Most of the guys were going to in unanimously could not do that in a 10-15 year healthy career. Surely we will vote in Ewing he did none of those things. Barkley and Malone have two of four achievements.

How can you vote for Issel, a great player, but a guy who made one NBA all-star team in nine NBA seasons and not Walton who led the Blazers to a title in that all-star season for Issel ('77)?

I understand why Stokes i in, Hawkins too, they had short careers for reasons beyond their control. The same is true with Walton, except he achieved much more in his short stint. If he's not in, (he will be) he would likely be the only player who was every considered the best in the NBA not to make it.


How does he compare to Hal Greer and Sam Jones? Those two were usually next in line after O and West.

I disagree with Will C when he says that Wilkens was one of the top 3-4 gaurds of his era. I believe he was perpetually the fifth best guard, behind his two classmates (West and Oscar) as well as Sam Jones and Hal Greer throughout the sixties. That's why he has no all-NBA nods. Like Thurmond, Bellamy and Beaty at center, there was too much high end star power ahead of him at his position.

Lenny Wilkens needs one more vote to get in, I know SexSymbol eliminated him, does anyone have an open spot who would consider voting for him still?

[WillC]

Wilkins was still averaging around 20ppg and 8apg after Sam Jones retired.

[G.O.A.T]

Wilkins was still averaging around 20ppg and 8apg after Sam Jones retired.

By then guys like Dave Bing, Gail Goodrich and Walt Frazier had entered the picture. Wilkens was having good statistical seasons but doing on awful teams, expansion Seattle and expansion Cleveland.

Following his amazing 1968 season (2nd to Wilt in MVP) the aging guard was traded for Walt Hazzard and later traded again for Butch Beard. All while averaging around 20/10.

Here are the ranks I have for Wilkens as a guard post Sam Jones

1970 - 6th behind West, Clyde, Oscar, Monroe, Goodrich (just ahead of Bing and Greer)
1971 - 6th behind Oscar, West, Frazier, Bing, Monroe (right ahead of Archie Clark and Pete Maravich)
1972 - 9th behind West, Frazier, Goodrich, White, Clark, Oscar, Tiny and Pistol (just ahead of Bing and Jerry Sloan)
1973 - 12th behind Frazier, West, Tiny, Maravich, Oscar, White, Goodrich, Monroe, Bing, Van Lier and Charlie Scott.

[kshutts1]

No one even mentioned Louie Dampier who leads that league in all-time scoring.

The reason I voted for him, and I believe many share my sentiments is that in his two almost healthy prime seasons he managed to win an MVP, led a team to the title, led a team to the leagues record and win a Finals MVP. Most of the guys were going to in unanimously could not do that in a 10-15 year healthy career. Surely we will vote in Ewing he did none of those things. Barkley and Malone have two of four achievements.

How can you vote for Issel, a great player, but a guy who made one NBA all-star team in nine NBA seasons and not Walton who led the Blazers to a title in that all-star season for Issel ('77)??

I'm primarily an NBA fan. Anyone I vote for outside of the NBA is having to be researched. That said, without having the name put in front of me to research, I didn't know of him. But I would have voted him in.

And I understand the greatness of Walton while he played. I get it. And if we were doing a peak HOF, then he would be a shoo-in. But I am not. My interpretation of a HOF (which will obviously differ slightly from yours and everyone else's) is a career HOF. The entirety of the career is to be considered. And at the end of that consideration, Walton just didn't have enough time.

Edit: The career aspect of my HOF qualifications are why I value the leading scorer in a major league. Just like I'll vote for Oscar Schmidt later. I suppose I should look up the leading scorer in Euroleague history...

[fpliii]

Sorry, out and won't be home until late tonight or tomorrow, so I don't have time to write out explanations. My picks:

Kareem
Dr. J
Gilmore
Jones
Walton

In addition to Belov and Gus Johnson.

Actually, throw in Iceman and McAdoo as well.

[G.O.A.T]

New Thread in the Morning, last call for votes...

[fpliii]

Silly question, but how many more years does Sampson have to play at his 83-84 through 85-86 level to make it into our HOF? Before going down, he put up 16.7/9.2/3.0 with 1.6 blocks on .489 shooting, and in the playoffs 18.6/8.8/2.1 with 1.2 blocks on .514 shooting.