SG Comparison: 2014 vs. 1990

[3ball]

.
Starting SG's with Minimum 15.0 PER (positions based on bballref):


(lists are only loosely matched up to see which era can match the other era player-for-player)


..2014.................................1990

James Harden.................... Michael Jordan*
Dwayne Wade.................... Clyde Drexler*
Manu Ginobili..................... Mitch Richmond*
Joe Johnson....................... Joe Dumars*
Demar Derozan.................. Reggie Miller*
Klay Thompson.................. Ron Harper
Jamal Crawford.................. Fat Lever
Aaron Afflalo...................... Alvin Robertson
Nick Young........................ Dale Ellis
JJ Redick............................Ricky Pierce
Kevin Martin...................... Hersey Hawkins
Wesley Matthews............... Jeff Hornacek
Gerald Green..................... Ronaldo Blackmon


HOF (*)
.

[Encre92]

Dragic is more of a PG.

He's a top 3 PG and a top 3 SG though.

[305Baller]

.
.....Starting SG's with Minimum 15.0 PER:


..2014.................................1990

James Harden.................... Michael Jordan*
Dwayne Wade.................... Mitch Richmond*
Manu Ginobili..................... Joe Dumars*
Joe Johnson....................... Reggie Miller*
Goran Dragic...................... Fat Lever
Demar Derozan.................. Ron Harper
Jamal Crawford.................. Jeff Hornacek
Aaron Afflalo...................... Alvin Robertson
Nick Young........................ Dale Ellis
JJ Redick............................Ricky Pierce
Kevin Martin...................... Hersey Hawkins
Wesley Matthews................ Jeff Malone
Gerald Green..................... Ronaldo Blackmon


HOF (*)
.

wheres drexler?

[3ball]

wheres drexler?
holy crap.. :eek:.... :facepalm

[Warfan]

So Klay Thompson isnt a top 13 SG? Ok :oldlol:

[3ball]

So Klay Thompson isnt a top 13 SG? Ok :oldlol:
I had to make a cutoff somewhere, so I went with all starting SG's with over a 15.0 PER - those were the requirements, as it says in the title.

Klay didn't have a 15.0 PER... but he was the one of 3 or 4 above-average SG's left off in 2014 for this - i can't list all the SG's - i have to cut it off somewhere... and there were good SG's that got left out for 1990 too - infact, I left several off from 1990 that had over a 15.0 PER because there wouldn't be anyone from 2014 to match them up with - Mitchell Wiggins, Tony Campbell and Reggie Theus.
.

[3ball]

.
Fixed the OP to include Drexler.. Jeff Malone gets left out.. 1990 already looked strong, but looks kind of amazing now now..


..2014.................................1990

James Harden.................... Michael Jordan*
Dwayne Wade.................... Clyde Drexler*
Manu Ginobili..................... Mitch Richmond*
Joe Johnson....................... Joe Dumars*
Demar Derozan.................. Reggie Miller*
Goran Dragic...................... Fat Lever
Jamal Crawford.................. Jeff Hornacek
Aaron Afflalo...................... Alvin Robertson
Nick Young........................ Dale Ellis
JJ Redick............................Ricky Pierce
Kevin Martin...................... Hersey Hawkins
Wesley Matthews................ Ron Harper
Gerald Green..................... Ronaldo Blackmon


HOF (*)

[Warfan]

I had to make a cutoff somewhere, so I went with all starting SG's with over a 15.0 PER - those were the requirements.

Klay didn't have a 15.0 PER... but he was the only good SG left off because of this and there were good SG's that got left out for 1990 too... Jeff Malone for example, Reggie Theus and Paul Pressey.

Well i disagree with it but whatever. JJ Reddick only played 35 games though, so who's next after him?

You included Manu? This is only starters right? Unless you just made an exception for him...

[3ball]

Well i disagree with it but whatever. JJ Reddick only played 35 games though, so who's next after him?

You included Manu? This is only starters right? Unless you just made an exception for him...
I made an exception for Manu.. and also for Jamal Crawford kind of, but he started about 1/3 of his games.

Honestly, if I couldn't include them, the 2014 class would look ridic thin.. just that much more than it already does compared to 1990.. i'm surprised at how distinct the comparison turned out to be.

Also, I had to include Redick - he started all his games for the clips in the regular season and then in the playoffs... so he was a starter, and he is one of the best SG's in today's NBA.
.

[Warfan]

I made an exception for Manu.. and also for Jamal Crawford kind of, but he started about 1/3 of his games.

Honestly, if I couldn't include them, the 2014 class would look ridic thin.. just that much more than it already does compared to 1990.. i'm surprised at how distinct the comparison turned out.. at least imo..

Im pretty sure Gerald Green only got a lot of starts because Bledsoe went down. But Lance, Beal, Klay arent on the list either and im sure there are a couple other names im forgetting.

But right now there arent any great SG's and the top talent at the position isnt great. There are a lot of good but not great players at the position

[3ball]

I should have mentioned that the lists are not ranked in any kind of order...

Instead, they are loosely matched up player to player for easier comparison..

[aj1987]

I should have mentioned that the lists are not ranked in any kind of order...

Instead, they are loosely matched up player to player for easier comparison..
And you matched up MJ with Harden? :facepalm

Can you also do one for the SG's of the '00's vs the SG's of the '90's? Probably 2005 vs 1990?

[Im so nba'd out]

Dragic is more of a PG.

He's a top 3 PG and a top 3 SG though.
Weird cause the Suns list bledsoe as pg which means they dont even feel he is the best pg on the suns but he is top 3...

[rule1223]

And you matched up MJ with Harden? :facepalm

Can you also do one for the SG's of the '00's vs the SG's of the '90's? Probably 2005 vs 1990?
shooting guards circa 2005 were the deepest and most talent set of players at that position in nba history, would love to see them side by side with the 90's to show how pathetic jordans era of competitors was

[3ball]

And you matched up MJ with Harden? :facepalm

Can you also do one for the SG's of the '00's vs the SG's of the '90's? Probably 2005 vs 1990?
.
.....Starting SG's with Minimum 15.0 PER:

(lists not ranked in any kind of order - only loosely matched up player-to-player for easier comparison)

..2006.................................1990

Kobe Bryant*.......................... Michael Jordan*
Dwayne Wade*....................... Clyde Drexler*
Manu Ginobili*........................ Mitch Richmond*
Ray Allen*.............................. Joe Dumars*
Vince Carter*.......................... Reggie Miller*
Michael Redd.......................... Fat Lever
Jason Richardson..................... Ron Harper
Richard Hamilton..................... Hersey Hawkins
Joe Johnson............................ Dale Ellis
Mike Miller...............................Ricky Pierce
Bonzi Wells............................. Alvin Robertson
Jamal Crawford....................... Jeff Hornacek
Morris Peterson....................... Ronaldo Blackmon
Leandro Barbosa..................... Jeff Malone


HOF (*)

[3ball]

Starting SG's with Minimum 15.0 PER:


..2006.......................................1990

Kobe Bryant*.......................... Michael Jordan*
Dwayne Wade*....................... Clyde Drexler*
Manu Ginobili*........................ Mitch Richmond*
Ray Allen*.............................. Joe Dumars*
Vince Carter*.......................... Reggie Miller*
Michael Redd.......................... Fat Lever
Jason Richardson..................... Ron Harper
Richard Hamilton..................... Hersey Hawkins
Joe Johnson............................ Dale Ellis
Mike Miller...............................Ricky Pierce
Bonzi Wells............................. Alvin Robertson
Jamal Crawford....................... Jeff Hornacek
Morris Peterson....................... Ronaldo Blackmon
Leandro Barbosa..................... Jeff Malone






Starting SG's with Minimum 15.0 PER:


..2014.................................1990

James Harden..................... Michael Jordan*
Dwayne Wade*................... Clyde Drexler*
Manu Ginobili*.................... Mitch Richmond*
Joe Johnson........................ Joe Dumars*
Demar Derozan................... Reggie Miller*
Goran Dragic....................... Fat Lever
Jamal Crawford................... Jeff Hornacek
Aaron Afflalo....................... Alvin Robertson
Nick Young......................... Dale Ellis
JJ Redick............................ Ricky Pierce
Kevin Martin....................... Hersey Hawkins
Wesley Matthews................ Ron Harper
Gerald Green...................... Ronaldo Blackmon



1990 vs 2006 and 2014

[rule1223]

.
.....Starting SG's with Minimum 15.0 PER:

(lists not ranked in any kind of order - only loosely matched up player-to-player for easier comparison)

..2006.................................1990

Kobe Bryant*.......................... Michael Jordan*
Dwayne Wade*....................... Clyde Drexler*
Manu Ginobili*........................ Mitch Richmond*
Ray Allen*.............................. Joe Dumars*
Vince Carter*.......................... Reggie Miller*
Michael Redd.......................... Fat Lever
Jason Richardson..................... Ron Harper
Richard Hamilton..................... Hersey Hawkins
Joe Johnson............................ Dale Ellis
Mike Miller...............................Ricky Pierce
Bonzi Wells............................. Alvin Robertson
Jamal Crawford....................... Jeff Hornacek
Morris Peterson....................... Ronaldo Blackmon
Leandro Barbosa..................... Jeff Malone


HOF (*)
missing t-mac, iverson, broy, i dunno about the per but these guys are definitely better than the bottom half of that list

[3ball]

missing t-mac, iverson, broy, i dunno about the per but these guys are definitely better than the bottom half of that list
those guys weren't playing SG that year.. the positions are based on bballref's game-by-game account of what positions they played throughout the year.

it's going to hurt all eras the same... same thing happened with all-star Reggie Lewis in the late 80's/early 90's, who played both SG and SF.

[aj1987]

You missed T-Mac, Iverson, and RIP.

[Mr.Kite]

Dragic is more of a PG.

He's a top 3 PG and a top 3 SG though.

Dragic4life is that you?

[Encre92]

Weird cause the Suns list bledsoe as pg which means they dont even feel he is the best pg on the suns but he is top 3...
You ignorant ass, I bet you don't even watch Suns games.

Dragic is BY FAR THE SUPERIOR PLAYER to Bledsoe. Not even a contest who the better player is, let alone PG.

[Cali Syndicate]

Mo monta Ellis?

[Papaya Petee]

SG is very weak now. But at 2009 they were at their strongest ever. A 30/8/5 Wade a 30/5/5 Kobe dominating plus Brandon Roy was an absolute monster. Plus JJ Manu Vince Carter playing at star levels. Ray Allen and TMac were still putting up numbers.

[3ball]

Starting SG's with Minimum 15.0 PER:


..2006.......................................1990

Kobe Bryant*.......................... Michael Jordan*
Dwayne Wade*....................... Clyde Drexler*
Manu Ginobili*........................ Mitch Richmond*
Ray Allen*.............................. Joe Dumars*
Vince Carter*.......................... Reggie Miller*
Michael Redd.......................... Fat Lever
Jason Richardson..................... Ron Harper
Richard Hamilton..................... Hersey Hawkins
Joe Johnson............................ Dale Ellis
Mike Miller...............................Ricky Pierce
Bonzi Wells............................. Alvin Robertson
Jamal Crawford....................... Jeff Hornacek
Morris Peterson....................... Ronaldo Blackmon
Leandro Barbosa..................... Jeff Malone





Starting SG's with Minimum 15.0 PER:


..2014.................................1990

James Harden..................... Michael Jordan*
Dwayne Wade*................... Clyde Drexler*
Manu Ginobili*.................... Mitch Richmond*
Joe Johnson........................ Joe Dumars*
Demar Derozan................... Reggie Miller*
Goran Dragic....................... Fat Lever
Jamal Crawford................... Jeff Hornacek
Aaron Afflalo....................... Alvin Robertson
Nick Young......................... Dale Ellis
JJ Redick............................ Ricky Pierce
Kevin Martin....................... Hersey Hawkins
Wesley Matthews................ Ron Harper
Gerald Green...................... Ronaldo Blackmon





You missed T-Mac, Iverson, and RIP.


I didn't miss anybody.

Tmac was listed as a SF in 2006.. Iverson and Monta were listed as PG's... and Rip Hamilton is on the list.

The list shows that SG's were far better in 1990 than they are today and that 1990's advantage over 2006 SG's was a lot smaller.
.

[Legends66NBA7]

DeMar should be matched up with Dumars. Joe Johnson with Miller.

[3ball]

DeMar should be matched up with Dumars. Joe Johnson with Miller.
This is true... but the point of the lists was not to match them up perfectly - the point is to compare one group to the other group.

It was interesting putting the lists together because I'm now quite positive that it's complete media propoganda and bs to say "players are better now".

Because it's quite the opposite - SG's, SF's, and bigs are all worse now.. materially worse... I think this is due to players in previous eras having to develop skills necessary to score ON defenders as a standard - they expected to have to score ON a defender for every possession, so they had to develop Kareem's skyhook, or Gervin's finger roll, or Alex English's wide variety of runners in order to do so.

Otoh, in today's game, the spacing creates an environment where contested shots are only viable if you HAVE to take them - so players today don't develop the skills and ability to take a wide variety of contested two-pointers, and instead master how to get open, set a screen and roll/pop correctly, and set their feet right for a 3-pointer, etc.

THAT'S why the list of SG's and SF's of today pales in comparison to the wings of previous eras.. the spacing has made the game easier, so you don't have to be as good.

[Collie]

Man, Dale Ellis was sick during the 4 years stretch of 86-90. 25 ppg 50-40-80, including a season with 28ppg on 51/48(!)/82.

[3ball]

Man, Dale Ellis was sick during the 4 years stretch of 86-90. 25 ppg 50-40-80, including a season with 28ppg on 51/48(!)/82.
It's a joke to even have to compare Dale Ellis to Nick Young, but that's all 2014 has...

Ditto for Ricky Pierce, Ronaldo Blackmon and pre-injury, prime Ron Harper - these guys are too good to compare to guys like JJ Redick, Gerald Green and Wes Matthews...

Most of the 2014 SG's on the list are bit players compared to the 1990 SG's.
.

[KobesFinger]

Have you done one for PGs or did I miss it?

[aj1987]

It's a joke to even have to compare Dale Ellis to Nick Young, but that's all 2014 has...

Ditto for Ricky Pierce, Ronaldo Blackmon and pre-injury, prime Ron Harper - these guys are too good to compare to guys like JJ Redick, Gerald Green and Wes Matthews...

Most of the 2014 SG's on the list are bit players compared to the 1990 SG's.
.
Yeah, the SG position sucks ass now. Compare the '90's SG's to '00's SG, '00 > .

[scm5]

Yeah, the SG position sucks ass now. Compare the '90's SG's to '00's SG, '00 > .

You're also comparing an era(or decade) of SG's to one year (2014) of SG's.

If you're doing a decade's worth and want to include the SG's this year:

2004 - 2014:
Kobe
Wade
Tmac
Iverson
Carter
Allen
Roy
Manu
Harden
Monta
Johnson
Hamilton
Martin

That is a hell of a lot of talent at the SG position.

[3ball]

You're also comparing an era(or decade) of SG's to one year (2014) of SG's.



not true at all... 1990 compared to 2014 is one year versus one year.. and 1990 is MUCH better - it's not close at all... kind of amazing really..


..2014.................................1990

James Harden.................... Michael Jordan*
Dwayne Wade.................... Clyde Drexler*
Manu Ginobili..................... Mitch Richmond*
Joe Johnson....................... Joe Dumars*
Demar Derozan.................. Reggie Miller*
Goran Dragic...................... Fat Lever
Jamal Crawford.................. Jeff Hornacek
Aaron Afflalo...................... Alvin Robertson
Nick Young........................ Dale Ellis
JJ Redick............................Ricky Pierce
Kevin Martin...................... Hersey Hawkins
Wesley Matthews................ Ron Harper
Gerald Green..................... Ronaldo Blackmon


HOF (*)

[scm5]

not true at all... 1990 compared to 2014 is one year versus one year.. and 1990 is MUCH better - it's not close at all... kind of amazing really..


..2014.................................1990

James Harden.................... Michael Jordan*
Dwayne Wade.................... Clyde Drexler*
Manu Ginobili..................... Mitch Richmond*
Joe Johnson....................... Joe Dumars*
Demar Derozan.................. Reggie Miller*
Goran Dragic...................... Fat Lever
Jamal Crawford.................. Jeff Hornacek
Aaron Afflalo...................... Alvin Robertson
Nick Young........................ Dale Ellis
JJ Redick............................Ricky Pierce
Kevin Martin...................... Hersey Hawkins
Wesley Matthews................ Ron Harper
Gerald Green..................... Ronaldo Blackmon


HOF (*)

K, I agree 2014 is a year where the SG position is pretty depleted, but it's not like we haven't seen something like this happen before.

1998-99 season the 3 best SG's were AI, Grant Hill, and a very young Kobe who put up 20/5/4.