Miami Heat vs. Cleveland Cavs discussion

[Kidbasketball20]

From a different thread on the topic:

JT123 wrote: "The Heat have more talent, much better coaching, and have been playing together for years.
Lebron is playing with a bunch of young cats who don't know how to win."

I wrote: "You're telling me it wouldn't be legacy killing if LeBron lost to the Heat (the team he just ditched) with old man Wade and Bosh in the ECF???"

JT123 wrote: How would it be legacy killing? The Heat have created a super team since Lebron left. :wtf: They replaced Lebron with not one, but TWO All Stars! :wtf:

I wrote: Deng is in the same category as LeBron?
What the **** are you smoking bro.

---

Am I the only one who finds this argument absurd?

If the Heat beat the Cavs in the ECF it would be legacy killing imo. Not sure how anyone can see differently.

[SouBeachTalents]

He does have a point. We hear on this board CONSTANTLY how stacked the Heat are, plus how Wade & Bosh are superstars. So would it really be that shocking to lose to a stacked team with two superstars on the roster?

[Mr Exlax]

I really don't think it would ruin it or tarnish it even. This is year 1 for a whole new team, new coach etc etc going against a team full of vets and a coach that knows LeBron's strengths and weaknesses.

[Mass Debator]

It'd be straight up embarrassing but not legacy killing. If it happens again in year 2, he'd probably head back to Miami with the veteran minimum. :banana:

[Kidbasketball20]

He does have a point. We hear on this board CONSTANTLY how stacked the Heat are, plus how Wade & Bosh are superstars. So would it really be that shocking to lose to a stacked team with two superstars on the roster?

Kevin Love/LbJ/Irving are better than washed up Wade/underperforming Bosh/and Deng????

[DukeDelonte13]

Deng and Wade could theoretically have bounce back seasons, bosh could come back better than he was in Toronto.

It's feasible, but not necessarily probable.

[J Shuttlesworth]

It depends how it goes down.

If Wade is healthy, the Heat are a force to be reckoned with.

But a star player isn't the only reason a team ever loses. Bron could be playing well, and maybe Love and Irving have a bad series, or the coaching just isn't ready for the NBA. Lots of shit can happen that could involve the Cavs losing whether or not LeBron plays well.

If it's 2011 finals Bron that shows up, then yes it's a big bust

[dubeta]

So now people dont want to count Deng and Granger as All stars, but were happy to count Wade and Bosh as all stars/ superstars all this time


The double stantards ppl go through :oldlol:

[Kidbasketball20]

So now people dont want to count Deng and Granger as All stars, but were happy to count Wade and Bosh as all stars/ superstars all this time


The double stantards ppl go through :oldlol:


Deng + Granger doesn't replace LeBron... not even close. Unless LBJ fans are REALLY lowering expectations on how good of a player LBJ is.

And KLove is better than Bosh (at least based on his last 4 seasons) and Wade is washed up. Irving isn't.



The Cavs are infinitely more talented than the Heat, although the Heat have more chemistry.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Deng + Granger doesn't replace LeBron... not even close. Unless LBJ fans are REALLY lowering expectations on how good of a player LBJ is.

And KLove is better than Bosh (at least based on his last 4 seasons) and Wade is washed up. Irving isn't.



The Cavs are infinitely more talented than the Heat, although the Heat have more chemistry.
It should if Bosh/Wade are really the superstars that people claimed them to be, and if the heat really really considered the most stacked team in history. Losing 1 player and replacing him with two all stars shouldn't stop a team that many were claiming to be the most stacked team all time.

See where I'm going with this? :coleman:

[Cocaine80s]

oh my god who ****ing cares

its ****ing september, lets just wait till atleast mid season for you to get butthurt over this shit

[GrapeApe]

So now people dont want to count Deng and Granger as All stars, but were happy to count Wade and Bosh as all stars/ superstars all this time


The double stantards ppl go through :oldlol:

Granger made 1 all star appearance and it was 5 years ago. He might not even be a rotation player. Deng on the other hand was a nice addition and could be a significant contributor. He's obviously not LeBron but when healthy he's a solid player.

The Cavs are formidable on paper but we'll have to see how they gel. The Heat have a nice team though and most Heat fans are excited about this season. If Wade remains healthy they could very well meet the Cavs in the ECF.

:cheers:

[magic chiongson]

if heat signs andray blatche, it's all over for the east.

blatche = 7 foot lebron :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

[Kidbasketball20]

It should if Bosh/Wade are really the superstars that people claimed them to be, and if the heat really really considered the most stacked team in history. Losing 1 player and replacing him with two all stars shouldn't stop a team that many were claiming to be the most stacked team all time.

See where I'm going with this? :coleman:

I see what you're trying to do...


But Bosh/Wade TODAY are NOT Bosh/Wade from 4 years ago. Wade was a top 5 player in 2011, and Bosh was probably a top 15 player.


Now the question is whether Wade is washed up (Jameer Nelson is better than a washed up Wade today), and if Bosh can reclaim his alpha status from Toronto.

[J Shuttlesworth]

I see what you're trying to do...


But Bosh/Wade TODAY are NOT Bosh/Wade from 4 years ago. Wade was a top 5 player in 2011, and Bosh was probably a top 15 player.


Now the question is whether Wade is washed up (Jameer Nelson is better than a washed up Wade today), and if Bosh can reclaim his alpha status from Toronto.
Ok but Bosh/Wade today ARE the same guys from about 5 months ago when the NBA playoffs started, right?

Back then, people were still calling the Heat the most stacked team of all time even though Wade was broken down, and the team really wasn't all that good. If they really were that stacked, losing one superstar and replacing him with two all stars should keep them as the favorites.

[dubeta]

I see what you're trying to do...


But Bosh/Wade TODAY are NOT Bosh/Wade from 4 years ago. Wade was a top 5 player in 2011, and Bosh was probably a top 15 player.


Now the question is whether Wade is washed up (Jameer Nelson is better than a washed up Wade today), and if Bosh can reclaim his alpha status from Toronto.

So when exactly did Wade and Bosh decline? pinpoint a date


Seems to me that they CONVENIENTLY declined from superstars to scrubs the second LeBron left :oldlol:


Face it, unless Bosh and Wade play like stars this year, this proves LeBron has had little help for at least the last 2-3 years

[GrapeApe]

Ok but Bosh/Wade today ARE the same guys from about 5 months ago when the NBA playoffs started, right?

Back then, people were still calling the Heat the most stacked team of all time even though Wade was broken down, and the team really wasn't all that good. If they really were that stacked, losing one superstar and replacing him with two all stars should keep them as the favorites.

Nobody except trolls were calling the Heat "the most stacked team of all time" last season. They were up and down all year and most legit fans and analysts recognized it.

I do expect a resurgant season from Wade and Bosh, but regardless of what the trolls will say that doesn't mean the Heat were stacked last year.

[Eric Cartman]

Even without Lebron the team has great depth, especially with Blatche.

Last year's Heat I'd call stacked relative to the Eastern Conference.

Too bad Wade played like garbage in the finals. He looked good at long stretches during the Indy series.

[Beastmode88]

oh my god who ****ing cares

its ****ing september, lets just wait till atleast mid season for you to get butthurt over this shit

retard bran stans like dubeta/dragic putting up damage control months before the seasons starts.

[dubeta]

retard bran stans like dubeta/dragic putting up damage control months before the seasons starts.

More like retards like you calling Bosh and Wade superstars the last 4 years, and the second bran leaves, they're 'scrubs' :oldlol:

Make up your mind

[Beastmode88]

More like retards like you calling Bosh and Wade superstars the last 4 years, and the second bran leaves, they're 'scrubs' :oldlol:

Make up your mind

I never called them scrubs, they're a shell of themselves that's cause of time and injury. Did Lebron not turn Christina Bosh into a spot up shooter? You obviously don't remember when Wade showed up last season to save Miami in game 4 finals. Just goes to show Lebron is nothing more than Robin.

[SouBeachTalents]

I never called them scrubs, they're a shell of themselves that's cause of time and injury. Did Lebron not turn Christina Bosh into a spot up shooter? You obviously don't remember when Wade showed up last season to save Miami in game 4 finals. Just goes to show Lebron is nothing more than Robin.

Lol, you literally pick the only game in that entire playoff run Wade outplayed LeBron

[GrapeApe]

More like retards like you calling Bosh and Wade superstars the last 4 years, and the second bran leaves, they're 'scrubs' :oldlol:

Make up your mind

Strawman much? Who is doing this? Nobody is calling them scrubs. In fact, most people are predicting them to have good seasons.

[KobesFinger]

He also said that the Lakers are more stacked than the Lakers. His argument went along the lines of

Nash (2 MVPs) > Kyrie
Kobe (5 rings) > Waiters
Young < LeBron
Boozer (NCAA Champion) > Love
Hill > Varejao

IMO Cavs aren't the most stacked team in the league. Spurs and Clippers (crazy depth) and OKC (2 top 5 players and Ibaka) are more stacked but they all play in the West so only one can make the Finals. Cavs are definitely the best in the East IMO and only the Pacers before PG's injury and the Bulls could hope to stop them. If the Bulls got Melo I'd say they were the best in the East.

[dubeta]

He also said that the Lakers are more stacked than the Lakers. His argument went along the lines of

Nash (2 MVPs) > Kyrie
Kobe (5 rings) > Waiters
Young < LeBron
Boozer (NCAA Champion) > Love
Hill > Varejao

IMO Cavs aren't the most stacked team in the league. Spurs and Clippers (crazy depth) and OKC (2 top 5 players and Ibaka) are more stacked but they all play in the West so only one can make the Finals. Cavs are definitely the best in the East IMO and only the Pacers before PG's injury and the Bulls could hope to stop them. If the Bulls got Melo I'd say they were the best in the East.

:hammerhead:


LOL who said that? :oldlol:

[KobesFinger]

:hammerhead:


LOL who said that? :oldlol:

You did (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=351223) and I'm aware I made a typo

[AnaheimLakers24]

bran fans have small ***** :lol

[Kidbasketball20]

So when exactly did Wade and Bosh decline? pinpoint a date


Seems to me that they CONVENIENTLY declined from superstars to scrubs the second LeBron left :oldlol:


Face it, unless Bosh and Wade play like stars this year, this proves LeBron has had little help for at least the last 2-3 years

Wade has not been a "superstar" in the last 3 years.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Wade has not been a "superstar" in the last 3 years.

Wade was easily a superstar in 2012

[JT123]

Wade was easily a superstar in 2012
His 43% shooting in the 2012 Finals says otherwise. As does his 5 point playoff game against the Pacers.

[SouBeachTalents]

Wade was easily a superstar in 2012

Wade was a top 10 player until the 2013 playoffs

[GrapeApe]

His 43% shooting in the 2012 Finals says otherwise. As does his 5 point playoff game against the Pacers.

Nice cherry picking. Wade was great overall in both of those series. Was LeBron a superstar when he had an 8 point game in the finals?

[dubeta]

So either Wade and Bosh are superstars, and therefore have no excuse to not contend for the championship with that roster or..


They are washed up and therefore LeBron has been winning rings with washed up players


Make up your mind now, and you cant change your opinion after

[Milbuck]

So either Wade and Bosh are superstars, and therefore have no excuse to not contend for the championship with that roster or..


They are washed up and therefore LeBron has been winning rings with washed up players


Make up your mind now, and you cant change your opinion after
...Or there's a middle area where they're neither superstars nor washed up..but just really good players. Like 2012-13 Wade and Toronto Bosh, both all-stars but not superstars.

Was Dirk last year the best PF ever or a D-League caliber scrub? Pick one and stick to it.

[GrapeApe]

So either Wade and Bosh are superstars, and therefore have no excuse to not contend for the championship with that roster or..


They are washed up and therefore LeBron has been winning rings with washed up players


Make up your mind now, and you cant change your opinion after

Again with the strawman. Why can't there be a middle ground? Perhaps Wade and Bosh aren't superstars (I'm the first to admit Bosh never was) but however are still very good all star caliber players? Why do they have to be either superstars or scrubs? Nobody is calling them either of those things at this point.

Edit - I see Milbuck beat me to it. Thank you.

[dubeta]

...Or there's a middle area where they're neither superstars nor washed up..but just really good players. Like 2012-13 Wade and Toronto Bosh, both all-stars but not superstars.

Was Dirk last year the best PF ever or a D-League caliber scrub? Pick one and stick to it.

Ok I was exaggerating but my point is that unless the Heat go deep into the playoffs this year, it proves LeBron's supporting cast has been overrated the last few years

[SouBeachTalents]

Ok I was exaggerating but my point is that unless the Heat go deep into the playoffs this year, it proves LeBron's supporting cast has been overrated the last few years

What happens if the Heat go farther than the Cavs?

[dubeta]

What happens if the Heat go farther than the Cavs?

thats to be expected. :confusedshrug:

Expectation is ECF for Heat, and ECSF for Cavs this season

If Heat make the finals, I'll be impressed, if they win the championship, that would be praiseworthy

But lets not act like the Heat didnt retool like crazy. Ok they lost LeBron but added Deng, Granger, McRoberts, and Napier?

Basically Heat ran out of Wings and Big men last year, Ray allen had to be backup SF and LeBron had to play too many minutes last year.

Heat basically fixed every major hole in their roster, ECF is the expectation

[Milbuck]

Ok I was exaggerating but my point is that unless the Heat go deep into the playoffs this year, it proves LeBron's supporting cast has been overrated the last few years
I know you're trolling so I don't know why I'm seriously responding..but I will anyways.

What do you consider deep into the playoffs this year for them? If we're to say the Cavs and the Bulls (when healthy) are the clear-cut 2 best teams in the East, what are you expecting for a clearly inferior Miami team?

The Heat as presently constructed, if Wade can play at 85-90% of his 2012-2013 level and Bosh can play like a true all-star (18-20/10), Miami is a 48-52 win team and a potentially 2nd round playoff team depending on who they play (Toronto and Washington could beat them..Charlotte could give them trouble).

The entire team was built and structured around Lebron..they didn't just lose the best player in the world, they also lost their identity. You can't expect them to replace Lebron with guys like Deng/Granger/McRoberts while completely changing their style of play, and somehow still be a top-tier contender..unless you're seriously suggesting that peak Lebron is replaceable by borderline-journeymen and glue guys. Literally the only possible way Miami is a contender is if Wade miraculously returns to 2009 level or Bosh plays like prime Dirk..

[GrapeApe]

Ok I was exaggerating but my point is that unless the Heat go deep into the playoffs this year, it proves LeBron's supporting cast has been overrated the last few years

That doesn't prove anything. What if Wade and Bosh have resurgant prime-like seasons? Does that prove LeBron was hindering them? No it doesn't. There's too many variables at play to use that simplistic of logic.

[dubeta]

I know you're trolling so I don't know why I'm seriously responding..but I will anyways.

What do you consider deep into the playoffs this year for them? If we're to say the Cavs and the Bulls (when healthy) are the clear-cut 2 best teams in the East, what are you expecting for a clearly inferior Miami team?

The Heat as presently constructed, if Wade can play at 85-90% of his 2012-2013 level and Bosh can play like a true all-star (18-20/10), Miami is a 48-52 win team and a potentially 2nd round playoff team depending on who they play (Toronto and Washington could beat them..Charlotte could give them trouble).

The entire team was built and structured around Lebron..they didn't just lose the best player in the world, they also lost their identity. You can't expect them to replace Lebron with guys like Deng/Granger/McRoberts while completely changing their style of play, and somehow still be a top-tier contender.. Literally the only possible way Miami is a contender is if Wade miraculously returns to 2009 level.


This is the same argument people were saying about LeBrons cast in Cleveland :facepalm

'theyre expected to do poorly because they are built around lebron'?

I thought Bosh and Wade's game didnt fit LeBron? Remember in 2010 when they were 9-8 and people were saying Wade and LeBron didnt fit together? And how Bosh starting shooting 3's last year? I dont buy the whole 'built around lebron stuff'

I consider ECF for Miami to be deep enough in the playoffs

Wade, Bosh, Deng, Granger should be enough to make the Conference Finals in the East easily. Plus Wade, Bosh, and Deng have more playoff experience
than anyone in the East

[JT123]

Nice cherry picking. Wade was great overall in both of those series. Was LeBron a superstar when he had an 8 point game in the finals?
8 > 5
But in all seriousness, Wade was still a star in 2012. He was no longer a superstar though. In the Boston series he would disappear for entire half's, and he was garbage for the first 3.5 games of the Pacers series. Yes, he had some great games as well, like game 6 of the Indiana series. :bowdown: But overall he was very inconsistent throughout that 2012 playoff run. In my mind you are no longer a superstar once you stop being consistent.

[navy]

Wade was easily a superstar in 2012
Easily? I see standards for Superstars have fallen.

He had superstar flashes, but he hasnt been a real superstar since 2011.

[dubeta]

The problem is that Wade would have 4-5 mediocre games, and then 1 pretty good game and everyone would say 'see he's still a superstar' and act like everything is okay


How many superstars would we allow to have 1 good game for every 4-5 mediocre games?

Heck, LeBron had 3 mediocre games in 2011 Finals and noone could let that go. Wade has basically been playing like 2011 Finals LeBron the last 3 years and people still want to call him superstar

Theres no way you can consider someone a superstar if you dont place superstar expectations on them.

[Milbuck]

This is the same argument people were saying about LeBrons cast in Cleveland :facepalm

'theyre expected to do poorly because they are built around lebron'?

I thought Bosh and Wade's game didnt fit LeBron? Remember in 2010 when they were 9-8 and people were saying Wade and LeBron didnt fit together? And how Bosh starting shooting 3's last year? I dont buy the whole 'built around lebron stuff'

I consider ECF for Miami to be deep enough in the playoffs

Wade, Bosh, Deng, Granger should be enough to make the Conference Finals in the East easily. Plus Wade, Bosh, and Deng have more playoff experience
than anyone in the East
...Yeah, they are. Not poorly, just not as good as the year before. You build a team around an elite player...that elite player leaves, and you replace him with role players...and the team is not as good as before. Don't see where that logic is hard to grasp.

Again, the only possible way for the Heat to be legit contenders as you're suggesting is for one of 2 things to be true:

1) Lebron is replaceable by a few good role players.
or
2) Wade returns to peak form, and Bosh returns to 24/12 form.

1 is bullshit, and 2 isn't happening.

[dubeta]

...Yeah, they are. Not poorly, just not as good as the year before. You build a team around an elite player...that elite player leaves, and you replace him with role players...and the team is not as good as before. Don't see where that logic is hard to grasp.

Again, the only possible way for the Heat to be legit contenders as you're suggesting is for one of 2 things to be true:

1) Lebron is replaceable by a few good role players.
or
2) Wade returns to peak form, and Bosh returns to 24/12 form.

1 is bullshit, and 2 isn't happening.

So Wade and Bosh have both clearly declined, and therefore LeBron has been playing with a Wade and Bosh for at least the last 1-2 years that were a clear level below their peak forms?

[JT123]

Heck, LeBron had 3 mediocre games in 2011 Finals and noone could let that go. Wade has basically been playing like 2011 Finals LeBron the last 3 years and people still want to call him superstar

Theres no way you can consider someone a superstar if you dont place superstar expectations on them.
The last 3 years is a bit of a stretch. In the last 2 post seasons you have a legit case, especially in 2013. Wade played very well in last season's ECF, but in the other series he pretty much was on par with 2011 Lebron. But of course Lebron is held to a much higher standard so...:confusedshrug:

[Milbuck]

So Wade and Bosh have both clearly declined, and therefore LeBron has been playing with a Wade and Bosh for at least the last 1-2 years that were a clear level below their peak forms?
Now we're back to arguing with absolutes...they're either superstars at their peak, or washed up? Is a level below peak Wade just a garbage player? Wade has put up 21/5/5/2/1 on 57% TS over the past 3 seasons. If that's not all-star level, I'd love to know how Roy Hibbert made 2 all star teams.

[red1]

this match-up will be heated. cant wait

[dubeta]

Now we're back to arguing with absolutes...they're either superstars at their peak, or washed up? Is a level below peak Wade just a garbage player? Wade has put up 21/5/5/2/1 on 57% TS over the past 3 seasons. If that's not all-star level, I'd love to know how Roy Hibbert made 2 all star teams.

Never said garbage, just said a clear level below. And Wade was definitely 'washed up' this finals


And making the all star team in the East isnt saying much I know, which is why im surprised people say Heat have 3 all stars like that means anything :facepalm

[fpliii]

So Wade and Bosh have both clearly declined, and therefore LeBron has been playing with a Wade and Bosh for at least the last 1-2 years that were a clear level below their peak forms?
It's a tough call.

Wade was definitely a superstar in 2011. He took a backseat in 2012 when they won it all, but I think he was still capable of playing at the same level as the year before. These past two seasons though, not so much. Hasn't been consistently healthy, and hasn't looked like the Wade of old even when 100%.

Bosh was never, every a superstar IMO (though I have a stricter definition than most...a superstar in my book is a legit MVP candidate).

[Beastmode88]

Never said garbage, just said a clear level below. And Wade was definitely 'washed up' this finals


And making the all star team in the East isnt saying much I know, which is why im surprised people say Heat have 3 all stars like that means anything :facepalm

Since you were a "heat fan" is wade better or worse than irving. Same question with love and bosh.

[dubeta]

Since you were a "heat fan" is wade better or worse than irving. Same question with love and bosh.

Wade > Irving

Bosh > Love

[SouBeachTalents]

It's a tough call.

Wade was definitely a superstar in 2011. He took a backseat in 2012 when they won it all, but I think he was still capable of playing at the same level as the year before. These past two seasons though, not so much. Hasn't been consistently healthy, and hasn't looked like the Wade of old even when 100%.

Bosh was never, every a superstar IMO (though I have a stricter definition than most...a superstar in my book is a legit MVP candidate).

I hope no logical basketball fan would ever consider a player who made one all-nba team in his entire career and never won a playoff series as the teams best player to be a "superstar". Some low ass standards if that's the case

[Milbuck]

Never said garbage, just said a clear level below. And Wade was definitely 'washed up' this finals


And making the all star team in the East isnt saying much I know, which is why im surprised people say Heat have 3 all stars like that means anything :facepalm
So what is that exactly? What is your view of a level below peak Wade? We've taken "garbage player" out of the discussion, so what do you consider a 21/5/5/2/1 on 57% TS player?

[dubeta]

So what is that exactly? What is your view of a level below peak Wade? We've taken "garbage player" out of the discussion, so what do you consider a 21/5/5/2/1 on 57% TS player?

Star, nothing more

21/5/5 while sitting half the season isnt that great. Its easy to cherry pick games and just show up for those specific games

Playoffs are more key

2013 15ppg on like 45% shooting

2014 19ppg but shat the bed in the finals

Therefore Wade the last 2 years has been, a star in the regular season, pretty good player in the playoffs. Thats it

[Milbuck]

Star, nothing more

21/5/5 while sitting half the season isnt that great. Its easy to cherry pick games and just show up for those specific games

Playoffs are more key

2013 15ppg on like 45% shooting

2014 19ppg but shat the bed in the finals

Therefore Wade the last 2 years has been, a star in the regular season, pretty good player in the playoffs. Thats it

Star?

So we've established Bron has had a good deal of help, but not to the point where the team is a contender with him gone.

Glad we cleared that up.

[dubeta]

Star?

So we've established Bron has had a good deal of help, but not to the point where the team is a contender with him gone.

Glad we cleared that up.

Star doesnt mean much

Lance Stephenson, Klay Thompson, Demar Derozan, Paul Milsap, Marc Gasol, Kawhi Leonard can all be considered stars also

Doesnt mean a good deal of help. Heck most playoff teams have 2-3 stars on their team as well, stars are good enough to make the playoffs with, but doesnt help a lot

[RedBlackAttack]

The cognitive dissonance being displayed in these threads is for the books. Watching these guys walk the tight-rope between praising the same guys they've been absolutely destroying on here for four years (Wade and Bosh) while now re-focusing their "not that good" label on two multiple All-Stars/Team USA starters who are 22 and 25, respectively, is fascinating.

Get it out now, guys. Get it out now.

[Bandito]

Ok but Bosh/Wade today ARE the same guys from about 5 months ago when the NBA playoffs started, right?

Back then, people were still calling the Heat the most stacked team of all time even though Wade was broken down, and the team really wasn't all that good. If they really were that stacked, losing one superstar and replacing him with two all stars should keep them as the favorites.
Lebron made them stacked dum dum. Now they are a good team if Wade is healthy, because Bosh alone can't help them get over the hump with no center.


The heat still has a weakness at the Center position remember?

[dubeta]

Lebron made them stacked dum dum. Now they are a good team if Wade is healthy, because Bosh alone can't help them get over the hump with no center.


The heat still has a weakness at the Center position remember?

No they have McRoberts also

and they have wing depth with Deng and Granger

[FLDFSU]

From a different thread on the topic:

JT123 wrote: "The Heat have more talent, much better coaching, and have been playing together for years.
Lebron is playing with a bunch of young cats who don't know how to win."

I wrote: "You're telling me it wouldn't be legacy killing if LeBron lost to the Heat (the team he just ditched) with old man Wade and Bosh in the ECF???"

JT123 wrote: How would it be legacy killing? The Heat have created a super team since Lebron left. :wtf: They replaced Lebron with not one, but TWO All Stars! :wtf:

I wrote: Deng is in the same category as LeBron?
What the **** are you smoking bro.

---

Am I the only one who finds this argument absurd?

If the Heat beat the Cavs in the ECF it would be legacy killing imo. Not sure how anyone can see differently.

JT is 100% correct. The Heat are the most stacked team of all time. Yes, the Cavs- with Love are formidable but according to ISH, Cleveland still will have to play "Lebron ball" therefore are not as great as the current Heat team.

The Finals will include the Heat for the 5th straight time.

No shame in Lebron losing to the most stacked team of all time.

[Milbuck]

Of ****ing course FLDFSU the spokesman for the "Heat are stacked" opposition would show up in this thread :oldlol:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10287977&postcount=13
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10293748&postcount=2
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10293783&postcount=8
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10293791&postcount=10
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9753906&postcount=78
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10111185&postcount=32
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10280964&postcount=34
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10280682&postcount=30
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8654795&postcount=59
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9896020&postcount=46
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10293696&postcount=31
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10273805&postcount=7
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10246558&postcount=16
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8646853&postcount=3
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10109814&postcount=481
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10109833&postcount=483
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10309461&postcount=77
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9771278&postcount=33
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9849227&postcount=17
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10078138&postcount=34

[nba_55]

Of ****ing course FLDFSU the spokesman for the "Heat are stacked" opposition would show up in this thread :oldlol:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10287977&postcount=13
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10293748&postcount=2
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10293783&postcount=8
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10293791&postcount=10
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9753906&postcount=78
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10111185&postcount=32
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10280964&postcount=34
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10280682&postcount=30
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8654795&postcount=59
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9896020&postcount=46
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10293696&postcount=31
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10273805&postcount=7
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10246558&postcount=16
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8646853&postcount=3
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10109814&postcount=481
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10109833&postcount=483
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10309461&postcount=77
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9771278&postcount=33
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9849227&postcount=17
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10078138&postcount=34

No disrespect buddy. I think you should get a life.

[BrownEye007]

The problem is that Wade would have 4-5 mediocre games, and then 1 pretty good game and everyone would say 'see he's still a superstar' and act like everything is okay


How many superstars would we allow to have 1 good game for every 4-5 mediocre games?

Heck, LeBron had 3 mediocre games in 2011 Finals and noone could let that go. Wade has basically been playing like 2011 Finals LeBron the last 3 years and people still want to call him superstar

Theres no way you can consider someone a superstar if you dont place superstar expectations on them. I know you already know this but there were only a few people calling Wade and Bosh "scrubs" before LeBron left the Heat and most of them were you. The only person saying everybody calls them superstars is you and your alts. Truth is Bosh and Wade are both all star caliber players. Wade at one point was a superstar but not anymore and Bosh never was. If you weren't always talking to yourself you might not get so confused about what most people really think. Let me repeat though nobody besides YOU refer to Wade and Bosh as superstars or scrubs.

Edit: I also keep seeing you use Granger in an attempt to argue that the Heat are stacked like he hasn't been a bench player the last few years. What a ****ing joke

[Kidbasketball20]

But lets not act like the Heat didnt retool like crazy. Ok they lost LeBron but added Deng, Granger, McRoberts, and Napier?


So in a trade LeBron = Deng, Granger, McRoberts, and Napier??

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

By those standards LeBron is like a top 20 player in the league. Not the GOAT. :roll: :roll:

[jrong]

The cognitive dissonance being displayed in these threads is for the books. Watching these guys walk the tight-rope between praising the same guys they've been absolutely destroying on here for four years (Wade and Bosh) while now re-focusing their "not that good" label on two multiple All-Stars/Team USA starters who are 22 and 25, respectively, is fascinating.

Get it out now, guys. Get it out now.

While not including yourself among this group, I can make an equally incisive observation about LBJ fans (or stans):

They know LeBron has left his flank unguarded and they're scared.

In Miami, James was bulletproof. Even without another title, the blame would have always fallen to Wade and Bosh and the supporting cast. The downside is that he wasn't going to become GOAT without a LOT more titles.

By going back, he's given himself a pathway to best ever status. If he establishes a dynasty, the media will all but decree it.

However, notwithstanding the ridiculous counter-arguments made in this thread, if the Heat win 55 or more games next year, there is only plausible narrative:

Miami is better without him-- the guy the press wants to call better than MJ-- at least during the season.

And if journalists are remotely objective, then they have to factor that into how his individual valuableness to a team is perceived, as well as reopen the book on the big 3-era Heat, both in terms of understanding what made things go right for them and what made them go wrong.

[Kidbasketball20]

2011 Finals.

[FLDFSU]

Of ****ing course FLDFSU the spokesman for the "Heat are stacked" opposition would show up in this thread :oldlol:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10287977&postcount=13
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10293748&postcount=2
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10293783&postcount=8
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10293791&postcount=10
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9753906&postcount=78
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10111185&postcount=32
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10280964&postcount=34
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10280682&postcount=30
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8654795&postcount=59
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9896020&postcount=46
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10293696&postcount=31
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10273805&postcount=7
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10246558&postcount=16
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8646853&postcount=3
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10109814&postcount=481
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10109833&postcount=483
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10309461&postcount=77
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9771278&postcount=33
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9849227&postcount=17
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10078138&postcount=34

Well, I have been busy since school started so I have to catch up.

Also, I noticed that some people have called those that claimed the Heat were the most stacked team of all time right up until Lebron left "trolls" and they should have been ignored.

Those are the same people now asserting that the Cavs are the most stacked team in the NBA. Should we not ignore those assertions now?

[GrapeApe]

Well, I have been busy since school started so I have to catch up.

Also, I noticed that some people have called those that claimed the Heat were the most stacked team of all time right up until Lebron left "trolls" and they should have been ignored.

Those are the same people now asserting that the Cavs are the most stacked team in the NBA. Should we not ignore those assertions now?

Calling a team the most stacked team of all time is trollish and at best hyperbole. Calling a team the most stacked in the NBA is at least a somewhat reasonable assertion. But to answer your question, pretty much anyone who plays the stacked team card is either a troll or has an egenda, so yes we should ignore their assertions.

[FLDFSU]

I know you already know this but there were only a few people calling Wade and Bosh "scrubs" before LeBron left the Heat and most of them were you. The only person saying everybody calls them superstars is you and your alts. Truth is Bosh and Wade are both all star caliber players. Wade at one point was a superstar but not anymore and Bosh never was. If you weren't always talking to yourself you might not get so confused about what most people really think. Let me repeat though nobody besides YOU refer to Wade and Bosh as superstars or scrubs.

Edit: I also keep seeing you use Granger in an attempt to argue that the Heat are stacked like he hasn't been a bench player the last few years. What a ****ing joke


This is patently false. You are confusing ISH with another site if truly believe that.

I will repeat: It was widely asserted (right up until Lebron left...yes that includes even AFTER the 2014 Finals) that the Miami Heat in 2014 was-- relative to competition-- the most stacked team in NBA history on THIS very site. Wade AND Bosh were called superstars THIS year (2014) and players such as Beasley were deemed to be stars if it were not for "Lebron ball".

Period. End of Discussion.

The revisionist history of ISH now claiming all this is a figment of our collective imagination or those posters were "just a few trolls" is ironic because I was called a "troll" when I suggested that the Heat supporting cast (Lebron being the main player) in 2012-2014 was a great to good supporting roster...certainly championship roster. BUT to suggest it was "the most stacked team" or the "best supporting cast of all-time" was insane.

I won't say that it was even 1/2 of ISH, but it was certainly more than "just a few trolls".

[Kidbasketball20]

This is patently false. You are confusing ISH with another site if truly believe that.

I will repeat: It was widely asserted (right up until Lebron left...yes that includes even AFTER the 2014 Finals) that the Miami Heat in 2014 was-- relative to competition-- the most stacked team in NBA history on THIS very site. Wade AND Bosh were called superstars THIS year (2014) and players such as Beasley were deemed to be stars if it were not for "Lebron ball".

Period. End of Discussion.

The revisionist history of ISH now claiming all this is a figment of our collective imagination or those posters were "just a few trolls" is ironic because I was called a "troll" when I suggested that the Heat supporting cast (Lebron being the main player) in 2012-2014 was a great to good supporting roster...certainly championship roster. BUT to suggest it was "the most stacked team" or the "best supporting cast of all-time" was insane.

I won't say that it was even 1/2 of ISH, but it was certainly more than "just a few trolls".


NO


On ISH during the playoffs, the favorite to win before the finals WERE THE SPURS.

People on ISH thought it'd be closer, but THE MAJORITY picked the Spurs to beat the Heat.

Wade and Bosh did not play great this finals nor in the playoffs. This was LeBron's BEST playoff in a while for the Heat... and what does he do?


LEFT.