why the phuck do we have the electoral college?

[SupermanOnSteroids]

Who in the hell agreed to this bull sh it? The true meaning of a democracy is that the majority rules but electoral college is a way to by pass that. Case in point the Bush/Gore elections. The majority doesn't always win this way. And what complicates it even worse is Gerrymandering. As a person with a leftist view living in the Southern Bible Belt region, my vote doesn't count at all! I'm not saying that I'm a strict democrat, but the number of illiterate bible thumping (and at the same time child raping and color hating) rednecks who have no problem arming the future Dylan Klebolds just way outnumber me. I just have to hope and pray that the swing states do their business and pick the right man. Electoral college has subdued mine and many other people's voices in the so called democratic elections. My vote, even though casted in the south, should be allowed to join the strength of over voters of my liking from all around the country. Ultimately the elected Govt is going to affect the whole country as one, so why can't the whole country vote as one?

[KingBeasley08]

idk why the fck we have it now. when it was first created, it made sense because only representatives (in the electoral college) voted for president and the dummies didn't do shit. but now, it's useless

[SunsN07BookIt]

There are millions of Republicans in California and New York, who say the same thing but instead of illiterate, bible thumping rednecks it's ignorant , illiterate, ghetto dweller welfare parasites and anchor babies trying to make the criminal behavior of their parents be legally acceptable.

[SupermanOnSteroids]

There are millions of Republicans in California and New York, who say the same thing but instead of illiterate, bible thumping rednecks it's ignorant , illiterate, ghetto dweller welfare parasites and anchor babies trying to make the criminal behavior of their parents be legally acceptable.

then lets level the playground. let the cali repubs votes count and join themselves along with the bible belt vote in a popular vote. electoral college is holding them back too.

[SupermanOnSteroids]

Democracy is Majority rule, and minority rights, not just majority rule. The senate and electoral college are there so that over populated states with extreme views like California don't dominate the policy for people in smaller states like the Dakotas.
i know when america was founded, a big deal of attention was paid to all STATES having equal say so in the matters. or else they wouldn't have agreed to joining the union. that's why each state is allowed 2 senators each despite their populations. them were growing pains. but some 200+ years later, america has evolved and people move around freely all over the country. if I move from NY to Alabama for a job, that shouldn't mean that my vote for the President shouldn't count at all because of it. the executive branch is the most important of them all and is the only one that is classified as the AMERICAN president. it has a number of powers that other branches don't have, namely things like line item veto, and most importantly the ability to wage war like GBush did against Iraq without the approval from anyone else. If we live in a true democracy and elect a person to such a high power, the majority should be represented by him regardless of where you live. This is 250 yrs after independance. America is 1 country now not a collection of states acting as a union.

[SupermanOnSteroids]

So do you guys agree that GBush wasn't elected by the majority of the Americans and by passed all other checks and balances and waged a war against Iraq, but since he was elected democratically it should be assumed that since he was elected democratically and waged war against Iraq that the majority of Americans were FOR the war against Iraq.

[Rodmantheman]

OP are you bisexual?

[NumberSix]

Electoral college means......

1 vote =/= 1 vote

[ThePhantomCreep]

You're misunderstanding. It's so that one section of the country doesn't dominate less populated areas. It's intentionally disproportionate.

Alaska has a smaller population than San Francisco, yet has as much representation in the Senate as the entire state of California. I don't see any fairness in that.

[nathanjizzle]

our government gives the illusion of democracy.

[joe]

Why do you feel your vote matters anyway? When was the last time an election was decided by one vote? That doesnt even happen in Class President elections.

I am not even trying to criticize the government or be political. It is just a mathematical fact. Not voting.. voting.. on an individual level there is a less than miniscule difference.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Why do you feel your vote matters anyway? When was the last time an election was decided by one vote? That doesnt even happen in Class President elections.

I am not even trying to criticize the government or be political. It is just a mathematical fact. Not voting.. voting.. on an individual level there is no difference.

The 2000 election came down to a relatively small amount of votes. Then the Supreme Court decided to nuke America and hand Bush the presidency. Thanks assholes.

[MMM]

Alaska has a smaller population than San Francisco, yet has as much representation in the Senate as the entire state of California. I don't see any fairness in that.

Excuses my ignorance seeing as I'm Canadian but doesn't the house of Representatives sort of balance that out???

BTW I would be more concerned with proportional representation in the House / senate. From my understanding the president doesn't have that much power at least not in the day to day managerial items. The Congress / senate would have far more impact on your life but you seem to ignore that NE republicans, Southern Dems, are also shut out of this process.

[oarabbus]

Yeah the electoral college is bullshit

[SupermanOnSteroids]

Why do you feel your vote matters anyway? When was the last time an election was decided by one vote? That doesnt even happen in Class President elections.

I am not even trying to criticize the government or be political. It is just a mathematical fact. Not voting.. voting.. on an individual level there is a less than miniscule difference.
you're probably a retard, but that's what i've come to expect from the internets. so i won't take it too seriously.

but there are million of votes in the bible belt for the democrats that are never heard from just as there are millions of votes for the republicans from states such as california that go to waste also. in a true democracy EVERY vote should count. but it doesn't under the current system. in a true democracy EVERY vote should count regardless of which state or county you live in. gerrymandering has taken this whole phenomenon up a whole another notch as the parties in power are able to carve out district to further destroy a true democracy. but they are only working to strengthen themselves under the rules currently provided to them under this electoral college system. its just like flopping in the nba.

btw, those hating on cali, cali is THE most powerful state seat in the US and usually leads the way in most policy changes in the US. Whether you like it or not, the world is an evolving society and every country should keep up with such or else we would still be having public burnings for witches in this country. cali leads the way in social reform. the latest and most important topic being the marijuana laws reform.

[russwest0]

It was put in as part of one of the many compromises our founding fathers did in order to get shit done while forming the constitution.

The badasses who formed this government fled from a government that used a parlimentary system, which was basically a smaller congress that chose the president from one of their own.

Our founding fathers feared this system but also feared a strict public vote because they were worried of a mob mentality evoking stupid votes somehow becoming the majority. (think of pop culture somehow deciding an election)

So basically what they did was make this mock congress which has now became nothing more than a formality.

I will however state that we need to do a strict popular vote in order to remove presidential candidates only giving a fukk about the non red/blue states.

[Nick Young]

Didn't the electoral college come around because the southern slave states had smaller population then the northern states but wanted equal say to make sure that slavery couldn't be voted away, and came about as a compromise?

[russwest0]

Didn't the electoral college come around because the southern slave states had smaller population then the northern states but wanted equal say to make sure that slavery couldn't be voted away, and came about as a compromise?

no, that was more what the senate was made for, to represent the smaller states more equally as opposed to having just a house of representatives.

our constitution was formed from a bunch of badasses that fled here in rebellion, it's ironic though because our constitution is basically a bunch of compromises

our gov't is epic relative to others but yeah it has some problems like the electoral college becoming pointless, and also the fact that this checks and balances shit slows the governing process way down, putting us behind the bar on social issues

[KevinNYC]

our constitution was formed from a bunch of badasses that fled here in rebellion

What are you talking about? Washington was born in Virginia. Jefferson was born in Virginia. Madison was born in Virginia. Adams was born in Massachusetts. Hamilton was born in the Virgin Islands. Franklin was born in Boston. John Jay was born in New York.

The only one born in England that springs to mind is Thomas Paine and he didn't have anything to do with the Constitution.

[russwest0]

What are you talking about? Washington was born in Virginia. Jefferson was born in Virginia. Madison was born in Virginia. Adams was born in Massachusetts. Hamilton was born in the Virgin Islands. Franklin was born in Boston. John Jay was born in New York.

The only one born in England that springs to mind is Thomas Paine and he didn't have anything to do with the Constitution.

yeah I know but I'm speaking in broad terms in set of ideals that those guys still had.

these guys were very liberal for their time and setting, and thats what made all of this progression, change, forming, and compromise able to happen.

[MMM]

It was put in as part of one of the many compromises our founding fathers did in order to get shit done while forming the constitution.

The badasses who formed this government fled from a government that used a parlimentary system, which was basically a smaller congress that chose the president from one of their own.

Our founding fathers feared this system but also feared a strict public vote because they were worried of a mob mentality evoking stupid votes somehow becoming the majority. (think of pop culture somehow deciding an election)

So basically what they did was make this mock congress which has now became nothing more than a formality.

I will however state that we need to do a strict popular vote in order to remove presidential candidates only giving a fukk about the non red/blue states.

Prime Minister isn't really equivalent to a President.
The PM has the powers similar to a house leader. He also does apoint to key positions but is done through the head of state. I would argue that a PM has more power than the president.

Shouldn't there he more concern with the past the post system in Senate and house races???

[Dresta]

Excuses my ignorance seeing as I'm Canadian but doesn't the house of Representatives sort of balance that out???

BTW I would be more concerned with proportional representation in the House / senate. From my understanding the president doesn't have that much power at least not in the day to day managerial items. The Congress / senate would have far more impact on your life but you seem to ignore that NE republicans, Southern Dems, are also shut out of this process.
It does, but that guy is an imbecile. The point of having 2 Senators from each state regardless of the population of said state is to prevent the larger states bossing around smaller ones. The USA is not simply one country, but was intended to be more of a confederation of states that were able to maintain a reasonable degree of sovereignty and to make the bulk of decisions themselves, rather than being managed by a central federal authority. The point of keeping the Senate even was simply to limit the power of large states, like the Constitution is intended to limit the actions of congress. It is all set up in a way that places the emphasis on protecting the rights of individuals and of small, minority groups.

Clearly this hasn't worked as the Federal Government is now a vast superstructure which controls what the states do in all but the smallest details, but it was still an important safeguard, and still worked for a while.

Democracy will always end in failure if you grant legislative bodies powers only limited by the whims of the majority. Democracy without considerable restraints on the decision-making power of the majority is tyrannical. OP's 'true meaning of democracy' is something America was never intended to be: it is a Republic, not a 'democracy' in the strict sense. The founders were scathing of pure democracy having studied its repeated failure to protect individual rights and even to survive for any extended period of time without destroying itself.

The American Revolution was not a democratic revolution. If you want to see a 'true' democratic revolution and its consequences, then just look at the French one.

[Jailblazers7]

Why do you feel your vote matters anyway? When was the last time an election was decided by one vote? That doesnt even happen in Class President elections.

I am not even trying to criticize the government or be political. It is just a mathematical fact. Not voting.. voting.. on an individual level there is a less than miniscule difference.

Elections are an important form of collective action where groups of individuals act to build a consensus. Taking the stance that one vote doesn't matter misses the point.

[2LeTTeRS]

You're misunderstanding. It's so that one section of the country doesn't dominate less populated areas. It's intentionally disproportionate.

This just isn't the case. If that were so each state would have the same amount of representatives in the electoral college (no matter how populous); but instead we distribute the amount of votes in the electoral college by population.

Lets just be real; the electoral college had a purpose when it wasn't possible to collect and count every vote in every state and tally them -- but now it has no purpose.