The Truth about Wiggins

[Noyze]

Let's be honest, anyone who studies the game or played it knows there are a few things that you don't improve upon once you get to the NBA. The point of emphasis here is Ball Handling. your decision making with the ball can improve and you can come into the league with no jumpshot and no defensive ability. Doesn't matter, defense is about effort and lateral quickness, on the other side there are shooting coaches all over the place that can make your shot more effective and look different (ex: Tony Parker).

Jordan, Kobe, LeBron, all shot terribly from the perimeter their first couple years in the league but here's the difference between them and Wiggins. They could breakdown the defense. The Wiggins comparisons are getting outta hand. Comparing him to DeMar DeRozan was more realistic. The biggest difference between Vince Carter & Tracy McGrady was that T-Mac could breakdown a set defense and not only score but create for others. VC depended on his first step and athleticism to get to the rim, if the opponent layed off it was a jumpshot. While this can be effective it also makes you easier to anticipate. It's the difference between making first team and not, the difference between being a top 10 player and not.

Ball handling, change of direction, and hesitation dribble is something you learn in 8th grade and even earlier. Look at alot of your top players, If you don't have it young you'll never get it, sorry. I'm strictly talking about perimeter players. With Wiggins you still might get a HOF player and that's amazing, Dominque Wilkins also tried to beat his opponent with one or 2 dribbles and had a mid range game. Nobody is saying he can't blossom into a star, but a Superstar? The truth is there aren't very many of them.

[BoutPractice]

Dr. J?

[ralph_i_el]

Good point OP. Obviously you CAN improve ball handling while in the NBA, but we don't see that as much as guys improving their shot, or learning good team defense.

Counter point: Kevin Durant and Paul George
Both really athletic tall guys who had weak handles entering the league. KD has had huge improvement. PG has improved too, but for him it's mostly learning what things to attempt and what not to attempt (open pull up J's, good. Splitting doubles on the PnR....BAD)

[Encre92]

I think it's also about fitting into a right team. Look at Gerald Green last season.

[ImKobe]

Kobe was a decent shooter and already had a wide array of moves while coming into the league at 17 years of age... He actually shot 37,5% from 3 his rookie season

[DCL]

sorta agree with the ball handling development. when you see a sick move done by an nba player, he's probably been doing that move at the playground since he was 14 or 15.

but i don't think ball handling is absolutely necessary to put up points. just need someone good like a prime nash to feed you that shit.

[Encre92]

Kobe was a decent shooter and already had a wide array of moves while coming into the league at 17 years of age... He actually shot 37,5% from 3 his rookie season
You say that like it's supposed to impress anyone. You're so insecure you bring up Kobe in any and every thread.

[Akrazotile]

Good point OP

Counter point: Kevin Durant and Paul George


And Joakim Noah

[DukeDelonte13]

he has some moves, but he's not adept at getting to the basket. He can get a ton of separation on his step back jumpers because of his athleticism.

The kid is a very hard worker and he wants to be great. That will carry him a long way. He's going to be a very good player.

[JohnFreeman]

He will never be LeBron, but he can be Durant if he tries

[Encre92]

He will never be LeBron, but he can be Durant if he tries
Why would any rookie want to be 3rd best at everything and not even the alpha male on their own team? :biggums:

JF whatcha smokin' bruh.

[Inactive]

Kobe was a decent shooter and already had a wide array of moves while coming into the league at 17 years of age... He actually shot 37,5% from 3 his rookie seasonHe shot .336 on jumpers in 2001. He shot .314 from 3 his first 6 seasons. Kobe was not a good shooter coming into the NBA.

[JohnFreeman]

Why would any rookie want to be 3rd best at everything and not even the alpha male on their own team? :biggums:

JF whatcha smokin' bruh.
true

[Im so nba'd out]

Let's be honest, anyone who studies the game or played it knows there are a few things that you don't improve upon once you get to the NBA. The point of emphasis here is Ball Handling. your decision making with the ball can improve and you can come into the league with no jumpshot and no defensive ability. Doesn't matter, defense is about effort and lateral quickness, on the other side there are shooting coaches all over the place that can make your shot more effective and look different (ex: Tony Parker).

Jordan, Kobe, LeBron, all shot terribly from the perimeter their first couple years in the league but here's the difference between them and Wiggins. They could breakdown the defense. The Wiggins comparisons are getting outta hand. Comparing him to DeMar DeRozan was more realistic. The biggest difference between Vince Carter & Tracy McGrady was that T-Mac could breakdown a set defense and not only score but create for others. VC depended on his first step and athleticism to get to the rim, if the opponent layed off it was a jumpshot. While this can be effective it also makes you easier to anticipate. It's the difference between making first team and not, the difference between being a top 10 player and not.

Ball handling, change of direction, and hesitation dribble is something you learn in 8th grade and even earlier. Look at alot of your top players, If you don't have it young you'll never get it, sorry. I'm strictly talking about perimeter players. With Wiggins you still might get a HOF player and that's amazing, Dominque Wilkins also tried to beat his opponent with one or 2 dribbles and had a mid range game. Nobody is saying he can't blossom into a star, but a Superstar? The truth is there aren't very many of them.
You're and idiot i stopped reading after this.No one in the nba has ever learned defense after getting in the nba.Damn near every player in the league improves their ball-handling once they get to the league...

EDIT:Future Negged

[Ass Dan]

Let's be honest, anyone who studies the game or played it knows there are a few things that you don't improve upon once you get to the NBA. The point of emphasis here is Ball Handling. your decision making with the ball can improve and you can come into the league with no jumpshot and no defensive ability. Doesn't matter, defense is about effort and lateral quickness, on the other side there are shooting coaches all over the place that can make your shot more effective and look different (ex: Tony Parker).

Jordan, Kobe, LeBron, all shot terribly from the perimeter their first couple years in the league but here's the difference between them and Wiggins. They could breakdown the defense. The Wiggins comparisons are getting outta hand. Comparing him to DeMar DeRozan was more realistic. The biggest difference between Vince Carter & Tracy McGrady was that T-Mac could breakdown a set defense and not only score but create for others. VC depended on his first step and athleticism to get to the rim, if the opponent layed off it was a jumpshot. While this can be effective it also makes you easier to anticipate. It's the difference between making first team and not, the difference between being a top 10 player and not.

Ball handling, change of direction, and hesitation dribble is something you learn in 8th grade and even earlier. Look at alot of your top players, If you don't have it young you'll never get it, sorry. I'm strictly talking about perimeter players. With Wiggins you still might get a HOF player and that's amazing, Dominque Wilkins also tried to beat his opponent with one or 2 dribbles and had a mid range game. Nobody is saying he can't blossom into a star, but a Superstar? The truth is there aren't very many of them.

OP is right, no NBA player ever works on their handle once they get in the league, they know they cannot improve it, so they take it completely out of their regiments.

All the below videos are part of the conspiracy that the NBA puts on fans to have them believe that NBA players work on and improve their handles, when in reality they ignore it, because there is no chance to improve it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_m9VG1-EJQ

SHAM!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoysXqYZd_s

FARCE!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQZwmNXSM4w

LIES!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iysTlumVogs

BULLSHIT!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BESnkdE-7mo

GETOUTTAHERE!


Man, what lengths the NBA goes to to perpetuate this myth.

Thanks OP you have enriched our lives by uncovering this conspiracy.

[Nastradamus]

He just needs to get a bit lower, which he's working on currently. I think he'll be fine. If not, he's Matrix

[CelticBalla32]

I see what OP is saying in terms of comparing him to elite shot creators, but the fact that OP said that ball handling can't be improved on is one of the most ignorant statements I've ever read lol...

[mr beast]

I see what OP is saying in terms of comparing him to elite shot creators, but the fact that OP said that ball handling can't be improved on is one of the most ignorant statements I've ever read lol...


:applause: :applause: :applause:


OPs thread should go into the dumbest things i've heard on ISH thread.

ball handling can be improved by anyone if they work on it. things you say about hesitations , change of directions, those type of things can be learned if he has a good coach and mentor that teaches him how to break down the defense in certain situations. Decision making in a split second is harder to train then improving ball handling skills.

[SexSymbol]

Kobe improved in ball-handling so much, up to a level that I could say he had the best moves out of any SG I've seen back in 08 before breaking his finger.
His ball-handling really suffered after that injury and the surgery following it, never was really the same.

[Noyze]

Counter point: Kevin Durant and Paul George
Both really athletic tall guys who had weak handles entering the league. KD has had huge improvement. PG has improved too, but for him it's mostly learning what things to attempt and what not to attempt (open pull up J's, good. Splitting doubles on the PnR....BAD)

KD was crossing up kids at Texas, and watch his duel against McGrady his rookies year with the Super Sonics. He already had great ball handling.


I see what OP is saying in terms of comparing him to elite shot creators, but the fact that OP said that ball handling can't be improved on is one of the most ignorant statements I've ever read lol...

As I said at the beginning of this thread your decision making with the ball will improve (reading the defense and making good decisions on when to create or score, watching how they play you), but you're ball handling wont improve much.

Find just 1 player who couldn't dribble in high school who penetrates and creates for teammates in the NBA. Just 1


:applause: :applause: :applause:


OPs thread should go into the dumbest things i've heard on ISH thread.

ball handling can be improved by anyone if they work on it. things you say about hesitations , change of directions, those type of things can be learned if he has a good coach and mentor that teaches him how to break down the defense in certain situations. Decision making in a split second is harder to train then improving ball handling skills.

you're making the general "anyone can improve with help" statement which is true in most cases, I gave out alot of examples, how about you give me one?

Most of the videos Ass Dan linked were of players currently in the NBA. He didn't linked John Wall and D Wade's HS videos as we have all seen them break people down at 17. Which proves my point, the rest are corporate dribbling drill videos made for suburban white kids who wanna improve. But as posters here have already said NBA players don't do any of those drills in the NBA, they just got paid to.

You are what you are, remember those Tyson Chandler & Hakeem workout videos 2 years ago? I mean, I'm sure it helped him in the low post alittle bit right?

[rhowen4]

I love the pacers and I'm trying to become a better ball player. Should I stop practicing ball handling and spend the time on another skill? Are we able to improve that outside of the nba or not?

[Collie]

Clyde Drexler could only dribble with the right hand, looked down while dribbling on the fast break, and still did quite alright for himself.

[Replay32]

Kobe improved in ball-handling so much, up to a level that I could say he had the best moves out of any SG I've seen back in 08 before breaking his finger.
His ball-handling really suffered after that injury and the surgery following it, never was really the same.

Kobe's had handles when he came into the league.

[JtotheIzzo]

OP is right, no NBA player ever works on their handle once they get in the league, they know they cannot improve it, so they take it completely out of their regiments.

All the below videos are part of the conspiracy that the NBA puts on fans to have them believe that NBA players work on and improve their handles, when in reality they ignore it, because there is no chance to improve it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_m9VG1-EJQ

SHAM!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoysXqYZd_s

FARCE!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQZwmNXSM4w

LIES!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iysTlumVogs

BULLSHIT!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BESnkdE-7mo

GETOUTTAHERE!


Man, what lengths the NBA goes to to perpetuate this myth.

Thanks OP you have enriched our lives by uncovering this conspiracy.

:applause: :roll:


seriously, most scrutinized player in history.

[MiseryCityTexas]

I think it's also about fitting into a right team. Look at Gerald Green last season.


Gerald Green could've had a much better NBA career if it weren't for him hanging around the wrong crowd of people. At least he's more dedicated to the game of basketball now than what JR Rider has ever been in his entire career.

[Milbuck]

Wiggins can easily put up prime Ray Allen stats with lower efficiency, but with much better defense..something like 22-24/6/4/2/1 on 55% TS is easily attainable even if his handles don't improve dramatically. He's just so ridiculously gifted athletically, and his jumper shows promise..with a pass first PG like Rubio and another potential playmaker in Lavine on the TWolves, he's in a great situation for his existing tools to be used well and there isn't a huge necessity for him to be an elite ballhandler/playmaker. Athleticism and shooting alone will get him 20 ppg easily when he adjusts to the NBA.. Anyone expecting him to be anything near prime Lebron/Kobe/KD level is gonna be disappointed though.

That said, Jabari >

[Legends66NBA7]

Comparing him to DeMar DeRozan was more realistic.

If he's as dedicated as DeMar is at improving his game, then he can certainly tap his full potential and be a real superstar in this league.

[Ass Dan]

Most of the videos Ass Dan linked were of players currently in the NBA. He didn't linked John Wall and D Wade's HS videos as we have all seen them break people down at 17. Which proves my point, the rest are corporate dribbling drill videos made for suburban white kids who wanna improve. But as posters here have already said NBA players don't do any of those drills in the NBA, they just got paid to.



No you f*ckin dumbass, they are videos of their workouts, the ones they do, in the pros.

Pros work on and improve their dribbling. Its reality.

[MMM]

Elite ball handlers usually are very good coming into the league and I would say it is probably the most difficult skill to go from non existent / below average to Good/elite. For example despite being a young player I don't see a guy like Avery Bradley ever being a good ball handler in the league despite the amount of work he puts into it. He'll just never have the natural feel that good ball handlers developed in their early years.

I've seen bad post players become good over the years or non shooters becoming good eventually but ball handlers are usual good out the gate.

[senelcoolidge]

Wiggins will be a good player..just good. Don't expect greatness. He will just be a solid player, not perennial All Star. Just good. I guess that's not good enough.

[CelticBalla32]

As I said at the beginning of this thread your decision making with the ball will improve (reading the defense and making good decisions on when to create or score, watching how they play you), but you're ball handling wont improve much.

Find just 1 player who couldn't dribble in high school who penetrates and creates for teammates in the NBA. Just 1

I can personally improve my ball handling. So can you.

So can these world class athletes with elite body coordination.

Ball handling is absolutely something you can physically improve. Just like shooting.

[ralph_i_el]

I can personally improve my ball handling. So can you.

So can these world class athletes with elite body coordination.

Ball handling is absolutely something you can physically improve. Just like shooting.
You CAN. It just seems like other skills improve more once players are in the NBA (aka shooting, D, decision making). Goran Dragic has improved a ton since he came into the league (thanks partially to Nash). Gordon Hayward has shown a lot of improvement but he still has a ways to go in the decision making department.

But there are examples of guys improving their handle to a really noticable degree. Most guys just end up cutting down on turnovers via better decision making.

[kenuffff]

You CAN. It just seems like other skills improve more once players are in the NBA (aka shooting, D, decision making). Goran Dragic has improved a ton since he came into the league (thanks partially to Nash). Gordon Hayward has shown a lot of improvement but he still has a ways to go in the decision making department.

But there are examples of guys improving their handle to a really noticable degree. Most guys just end up cutting down on turnovers via better decision making.

so ..not every player is going to be controlling the offense and playing point so that's why its not a skill they practice as much say shooting , it all depends on their game and how they fit in, that's why we have positions... like a 5 isn't going to be running the ball up the court most of the time, there are exceptions, there are 'point forwards' though wiggins is not that type of player like bird or pippin or grant hill.. there are plenty of great small forwards without exceptional ball handling ability..or being able to run an offense

[kenuffff]

You CAN. It just seems like other skills improve more once players are in the NBA (aka shooting, D, decision making). Goran Dragic has improved a ton since he came into the league (thanks partially to Nash). Gordon Hayward has shown a lot of improvement but he still has a ways to go in the decision making department.

But there are examples of guys improving their handle to a really noticable degree. Most guys just end up cutting down on turnovers via better decision making.

yeah because wilt chamberlin should've spent all his time improving his ability to bring the ball up the floor and run the offense from the top of the key.. lots of players do not practice it because its not part of their game or what they do in the NBA, not everyone needs to be some great overall player its fine to specialize, let's look at dennis rodman.

[CelticBalla32]

You CAN. It just seems like other skills improve more once players are in the NBA (aka shooting, D, decision making). Goran Dragic has improved a ton since he came into the league (thanks partially to Nash). Gordon Hayward has shown a lot of improvement but he still has a ways to go in the decision making department.

But there are examples of guys improving their handle to a really noticable degree. Most guys just end up cutting down on turnovers via better decision making.

I would argue that it is "easier" to improve your physical ball handling skills than it is to improve your ability to make the correct reactionary decisions on the floor.

Strong decision making and a great feel for the game is something some players have, some don't, but ball handling/shooting/boxing out/etc. are all physical skills that 100% of players can improve. Especially when you're an elite athlete like Wiggins obviously is.

[hawksdogsbraves]

He can improve his ball handling, but finishing in traffic seems like more of an inherent skill, and one that he's not great at.

So does court awareness, another aspect where he wasn't very good in college.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Wiggins will be a good player..just good. Don't expect greatness. He will just be a solid player, not perennial All Star. Just good. I guess that's not good enough.

I think he can definitely be a perennial all star with the SG position the way it is right now. He's a good shooter already, so pair that with his athleticism and it's easy to see him getting up to 20ppg, which is good enough to make all star games even if you do literally NOTHING else, (see Derozan, Demar). Add good defense and boom, you've got a top 5 SG.

Like Milbuck said though, the line of thought that he would be a Kobe/Durant/LeBron level talent should be out the window by now.

[Budadiiii]

I don't ever expect Wiggins to be Durant or Kobe level.

I just really really love watching this guy play.

Kinda similar to how I feel about Manziel.... he's never gonna be Manning or Brady but he's the most exciting athlete in the world to me and he's easy on the ears and likable.

Wiggins has such a likable personality and there is something about him that makes me gawk in amazement when I watch him glide up and down the court... he has that look..

I admire him in the same way I admire a cheetah or a Ferrari... physical specimen with a unique and intriguing look. LeBron used to do that for me before his face and body bloated up and he lost all of his hair and I actually got to know who he was as a person. Wiggins is down right good looking and likable and one of the most aesthetically pleasing athletes in the game today.

Can't wait to see that Minnesota transition game

[JohnFreeman]

I don't ever expect Wiggins to be Durant or Kobe level.

I just really really love watching this guy play.

Kinda similar to how I feel about Manziel.... he's never gonna be Manning or Brady but he's the most exciting athlete in the world to me and he's easy on the ears and likable.

Wiggins has such a likable personality and there is something about him that makes me gawk in amazement when I watch him glide up and down the court... he has that look..

I admire him in the same way I admire a cheetah or a Ferrari... physical specimen with a unique and intriguing look. LeBron used to do that for me before his face and body bloated up and he lost all of his hair and I actually got to know who he was as a person. Wiggins is down right good looking and likable and one of the most aesthetically pleasing athletes in the game today.

Can't wait to see that Minnesota transition game
He could. He will never be top 10 though. Eg: LeBron,Duncan,MJ

[RoseCity07]

Could he be Gerald Wallace with a junpshot. I'd take prime Gerald Wallace over a lot of players some call stars.

[Budadiiii]

Dorial Green-beckham is the Andrew Wiggins of college football.....

Absolute physical specimen with that aesthetically pleasing look and build.

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/4/28/4280a3cc-8e1f-5edc-b41a-51d422a14f4e/53e24ba1546b9.image.jpg

He's not eligible to play this year but be on the lookout for him in the future. Freak of nature.

[Budadiiii]

He could. He will never be top 10 though. Eg: LeBron,Duncan,MJ
Kobe is top 10. Not even debatable.

[JohnFreeman]

Kobe is top 10. Not even debatable.
Probably the most debatable topic in the NBA

[MiseryCityTexas]

Could he be Gerald Wallace with a junpshot. I'd take prime Gerald Wallace over a lot of players some call stars.

If it's Bobcats Blazers era Gerald Wallace then hell yeah. Sad to see stars from the mid 2000s like Wallace, and J-Rich falling the **** off fast, when they were some of the best players and rising stars from the early/mid 2000s

[hawksdogsbraves]

If it's Bobcats Blazers era Gerald Wallace then hell yeah. Sad to see stars from the mid 2000s like Wallace, and J-Rich falling the **** off fast, when they were some of the best players and rising stars from the early/mid 2000s

You knew Wallace was going to fall off fast considering the way he threw his body around.

[Noyze]

He just needs to get a bit lower, which he's working on currently. I think he'll be fine. If not, he's Matrix

Prime Shawn Marion is, what, 23 pts 11rbs 1.5 blks 1.5 stls

I think Wiggins can be better, alittle more points and less rebounds.



But there are examples of guys improving their handle to a really noticable degree. Most guys just end up cutting down on turnovers via better decision making.

Who? Another general statement

[veilside23]

paul george wasnt a great ball handler.. so is derozan but if both made it to the all star with wiggins physical gift and if he works hard i doubt he achieves less..

and the post about clyde drexler that you guys disregard shows that there are some insecure people here that they didnt have a kevin love to trade for andrew wiggins...