Gary Payton vs CP3

[sportjames23]

Gary Payton said it best about how tough it was to play against John. Payton would shut CP3 down and CP3 would cry on the bench.


Do you agree?

[Milbuck]

Not really..GP is probably the GOAT two-way PG. But peak CP3 is comfortably better than him offensively, enough to compensate for the difference defensively.

22/5/11/3 on 60% TS...30 PER, .284 WS/48, Net On/Off of +19.6...Honestly I'd take pre-injury peak CP3 over any PG in history aside from Magic and Oscar if you consider him purely a point.

CP3 right now is arguably the best PG in the game...personally have him at #2...and he's still a shell of who he was at his peak from 2007-2009.

Would GP give CP3 a ton of trouble defensively? Absolutely. But if we're talking who is the better point guard and who I'd rather build a team around at their absolute best, I'm going with CP3 and not thinking twice about it.

And just LOL at the "CP3 would cry on the bench" part...ask NBA players, coaches, analysts, etc about CP3's personality on the court, all you'll hear about is how ****ing intense a competitor he is. We need to stop with the nostalgia-driven crap...yeah some guys would struggle mentally in previous eras, but CP3 is not one of them.

[bizil]

No way in hell that happens! Payton said Stock was the toughest player he played against becasue Stock was very gritty and could drop dimes with just a sliver of daylight. Imagine how that makes an EPIC DEFENDER like Payton feel. Payton was also used to getting into a player's head. But with Stock, u couldn't rattle him AT ALL. The pick and roll with Malone was murder because Stock was a threat in every sense of the play. Of course he would drop dimes all day to Malone with all kinds of pinpoint passing and timing. But Stock could shoot the rock well and he could get to the rack consistently as well. It wasn't about Stockton dropping 30 on Payton. It was about Stock's fundamentals, mental toughness, and physical toughness. At the PG spot in Payton's best years, other than himself, Kidd and Stockton were the most well rounded PG's on both sides of the ball in that era.

But don't get it twisted, CP3 is as tough as nails. Payton wouldn't have CP3 crying on the bench or none of that shit! CP3 can do anything Stockton can do AND is a better scorer and defender. But GP was a flat out beast! Peak wise, the only PG's I would take FOR SURE over GP are Magic and Big O. Everybody else, I would have to think about!

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Depends on the rules (could see Paul get shut down w/ physical handchecking), but there is no version of Gary Payton that would make Chris Paul, the most competitive player this side of Jordan, "cry on the bench".

[bizil]

Not really..GP is probably the GOAT two-way PG. But peak CP3 is comfortably better than him offensively, enough to compensate for the difference defensively.

22/5/11/3 on 60% TS...30 PER, .284 WS/48, Net On/Off of +19.6...Honestly I'd take pre-injury peak CP3 over any PG in history aside from Magic and Oscar if you consider him purely a point.

CP3 right now is arguably the best PG in the game...personally have him at #2...and he's still a shell of who he was at his peak from 2007-2009.

Would GP give CP3 a ton of trouble defensively? Absolutely. But if we're talking who is the better point guard and who I'd rather build a team around at their absolute best, I'm going with CP3 and not thinking twice about it.

And just LOL at the "CP3 would cry on the bench" part...ask NBA players, coaches, analysts, etc about CP3's personality on the court, all you'll hear about is how ****ing intense a competitor he is. We need to stop with the nostalgia-driven crap...yeah some guys would struggle mentally in previous eras, but CP3 is not one of them.

I agree! U could make a case that peak CP3 is the third best PG ever. I think u could also make a case for Isiah, Payton, and Frazier. U could say any of those guys are the third best PG in terms of peak and I wouldn't argue one bit. GP could check PG's, SG's, and even some SF's. Plus was pass first and could average 24 a night. But Paul is indeed a better passer, as good defensively as small guard ever, and can take over a game scoring too!

[Reggie43]

with replies like these you have to wonder how the hell does the "2nd greatest pointguard of all time" not make it past the 2nd round with his prime years slowly dwindling away :confusedshrug:

[Milbuck]

I agree! U could make a case that peak CP3 is the third best PG ever. I think u could also make a case for Isiah, Payton, and Frazier. U could say any of those guys are the third best PG in terms of peak and I wouldn't argue one bit. GP could check PG's, SG's, and even some SF's. Plus was pass first and could average 24 a night. But Paul is indeed a better passer, as good defensively as small guard ever, and can take over a game scoring too!
Small gap between all of them, really depends on what your team needs. If the team has a dominant pure scorer, give me Stockton. Athletic, tenacious team with trapping defense, give me GP. CP3 for a team that needs a balance of everything. Can't go wrong with any of them.
with replies like these you have to wonder how the hell does the "2nd greatest pointguard of all time" not make it past the 2nd round with his prime years slowly dwindling away :confusedshrug:
Best, not greatest. Big difference.

And you understand that up to the same age as CP3 was this past season (28), Stockton hadn't made it out of the 2nd round either, right? Except his best teammate was Karl Malone and his coach was Jerry Sloan..whereas the bulk of CP3's career, and his best years up to this point, were with David West and Byron Scott as his coach..

[Reggie43]

And you understand that up to the same age as CP3 was this past season (28), Stockton hadn't made it out of the 2nd round either, right? Except his best teammate was Karl Malone and his coach was Jerry Sloan..whereas the bulk of CP3's career, and his best years up to this point, were with David West and Byron Scott as his coach..

Sure but CP3 was playing on one of the most talented teams in the league on paper in the last 3 years and still had nothing to show for it as opposed to the Jazz (with Stockton the same age as Paul) were not as talented relative to league strength even with Malone in the lineup. They were lucky if they were ranked 3rd in their own conference.

[navy]

Sure but CP3 was playing on one of the most talented teams in the league on paper in the last 3 years and still had nothing to show for it as opposed to the Jazz (with Stockton the same age as Paul) were not as talented relative to league strength even with Malone in the lineup. They were lucky if they were ranked 3rd in their own conference.
Lies. Blake Griffin didnt even have his breakout season till last year. De Andre Jordan is still raw. The Clippers came in 5th place, beat the 4th seed in 2012. Blake was a sophomore. The next year they came in 4th place and lost to the 5th seed.

Last year, they came in third place and lost to the second seed. Headlined by Kevin Durant (MVP) and Russel Westbrook. Definitely lacking talent there right?

The Clippers have gotten better every year, this was perennial lottery team not to long ago. We shall see what happens when Chris Paul can play the John Stockton role and Blake is the clear best player on the team.

I swear the reasoning you guys use to discredit players is some of the most disingenuous stuff ive ever seen . Nothing wrong with taking Stockton or in this case Payton over cp3. But actually use some real reasoning is all I ask.

[Pacquiao]

Why has CP3 became this overrated? What is CP3's greatest achievement in his career losing by 50+ at home in the playoffs? of just by reaching the semis

[Reggie43]

Lies. Blake Griffin didnt even have his breakout season till last year. De Andre Jordan is still raw. The Clippers came in 5th place, beat the 4th seed in 2012. Blake was a sophomore. The next year they came in 4th place and lost to the 5th seed.

Last year, they came in third place and lost to the second seed. Headlined by Kevin Durant (MVP) and Russel Westbrook. Definitely lacking talent there right?

The Clippers have gotten better every year, this was perennial lottery team not to long ago. We shall see what happens when Chris Paul can play the John Stockton role and Blake is the clear best player on the team.

I swear the reasoning you guys use to discredit players is some of the most disingenuous stuff ive ever seen . Nothing wrong with taking Stockton or in this case Payton over cp3. But actually use some real reasoning is all I ask.

How is calling the Clippers one of the most talented teams in the league the last three years constitute to lying? They have one the best young big men in the league (Blake) plus the best point guard in the game (Paul) with capable role players and veteran leadership to boot.