McDonald's workers in Denmark make 20 am hour but big Mac price nearly same

[secund2nun]

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/denmark-mcdonalds-workers-paid-vastly-180300622.html

They make over 20 dollars an hour in Unionized McDonald's jobs yet the big mac there is only 35 cents more... And its better quality as well.


They also get paid sick leave and over time.


"The average full-time equivalent McDonald’s employee in Denmark makes about $45,000 a year in total compensation. Forty-five thousand dollars! Even after high Danish taxes, that average worker will take home some $28,000 a year, roughly double what a full-time American McDonald’s worker will. To add insult to injury, the Dane gets at least five weeks of paid vacation while the American is lucky to get off (unpaid, of course) when her daughter is home sick with the flu. And so at the Aalborg McDonald’s, for instance, a Big Mac extra value meal costs 58 kroner, or $10.25, while the Dollar Menu is the 10 kroner menu, which means it’s the dollar-seventy-seven menu here. In Denmark, taxes are included in list prices, unlike in the US, so backing out the 25 percent VAT gives us $8.20 for a Big Mac meal and $1.41 for the “dollar” menu. That compares to $6 and $1 in Seattle "
- See more at: http://www.cjr.org/the_audit/the_minimum_wage_and_the_danis.php?page=all#sthash .bJjsY4Nk.dpuf"

[NumberSix]

And how much of that $20 an hour gets taken away for taxes?

[Graviton]

Unions are corrupt and greedy. Corporations should be left unchallenged since they make the best decisions for their employees.

[bagelred]

And how much of that $20 an hour gets taken away for taxes?

Alot but they also get alot.

[secund2nun]

And how much of that $20 an hour gets taken away for taxes?

They make an average of 28000 thousand after taxes which is double what most American McDonald's workers get before taxes... Plus all of those taxes give the people of Denmark free health care, excellent public transportation, free college etc.

[KevinNYC]

And how much of that $20 an hour gets taken away for taxes?
100%

[russwest0]

sorry, I don't want the rude ass black people who fukk up my order making 20 an hour

[KNOW1EDGE]

Sorry, but you don't deserve $20/hour to work at McDonalds. If they start paying those people ma xi mum wages for minimum effort they would have to start paying caregivers appropriate wages.

[secund2nun]

Sorry, but you don't deserve $20/hour to work at McDonalds. If they start paying those people ma xi mum wages for minimum effort they would have to start paying caregivers appropriate wages.

McDonald's makes billion and billion a year, but because they don't pay their employees enough the employees get public assistance like welfare... So in other words the tax payers pay instead of McDonald's.... Hmmm let McDonald's spend the billions they make or make the tax payers pay the McDonald's employees because McDonald's doesn't want to pay them enough.

This type of mentality is why most American workers., not just min wage ones, are grossly underpaid and have no benefits. This applies to the middle class as well.

[KNOW1EDGE]

McDonald's makes billion and billion a year, but because they don't pay their employees enough the employees get public assistance like welfare... So in other words the tax payers pay instead of McDonald's.... Hmmm let McDonald's spend the billions they make or make the tax payers pay the McDonald's employees because McDonald's doesn't want to pay them enough.

The government, who pays funds most of the group homes I have worked in, makes BILLIONS, but caregivers still get minimum wage.

If McDonald's wants to pay their employees more I'm all for it.

But for their employees to complain that they don't get paid enough is ludicrous. YOU DON'T DO SH1T! YOU AREN'T REQUIRED TO HAVE A HS DIPLOMA TO WORK THERE!

My point is, there are many other workers out there who actually DESERVE and WARRANT a pay raise. If you want a good job you have to work hard and get one. Not take a horrible job, and then demand more money. That's not the way it works.

[bigkingsfan]

Ask if you can be relocated.

[Graviton]

McDonald's makes billion and billion a year, but because they don't pay their employees enough the employees get public assistance like welfare... So in other words the tax payers pay instead of McDonald's.... Hmmm let McDonald's spend the billions they make or make the tax payers pay the McDonald's employees because McDonald's doesn't want to pay them enough.

This type of mentality is why most American workers., not just min wage ones, are grossly underpaid and have no benefits. This applies to the middle class as well.
Sadly in America nowadays it's "every man for himself". People don't realize they are part of society, too busy fighting among themselves on racial or social issues while the guys up top just laugh and watch the wealth/income inequality grow.

[secund2nun]

The government, who pays funds most of the group homes I have worked in, makes BILLIONS, but caregivers still get minimum wage.

If McDonald's wants to pay their employees more I'm all for it.

But for their employees to complain that they don't get paid enough is ludicrous. YOU DON'T DO SH1T! YOU AREN'T REQUIRED TO HAVE A HS DIPLOMA TO WORK THERE!

My point is, there are many other workers out there who actually DESERVE and WARRANT a pay raise. If you want a good job you have to work hard and get one. Not take a horrible job, and then demand more money. That's not the way it works.

That's the way it works in Europe and their work culture and happiness is way better than ours.

The government needs to pay more to the group home workers then. Same thing applies there.

The economy isn't a magical machine with great jobs every where. Naturally many people will have to do the lower jobs that you seem to look down on. The economy can't exist of only doctors and Lawyers. There aren't enough high jobs to go around.

Who cares if you don't need a HS diploma. What benefit does keeping that extra money in McDonald's bank account give to society? Nothing at all it only makes the tax payers pay the McDonald's workers. Everyone should have a living wage.

[KNOW1EDGE]

Sadly in America nowadays it's "every man for himself". People don't realize they are part of society, too busy fighting among themselves on racial or social issues while the guys up top just laugh and watch the wealth/income inequality grow.

If it were really "every man for himself" here in America, then there would be no welfare, we wouldn't be giving illegal aliens drivers licenses and better rights than legal citizens, there would be no assistance, I wouldn't be paying for everyone elses mistakes and laziness.

Sadly, America's being destroyed by the liberal agenda

[secund2nun]

Sadly in America nowadays it's "every man for himself". People don't realize they are part of society, too busy fighting among themselves on racial or social issues while the guys up top just laugh and watch the wealth/income inequality grow.

Spot on. Most Americans have been raised to blindly worship the billionaires and corporations for some reason even though the billionaires and corporations rape them as well as the rest of us.

[NumberSix]

McDonald's makes billion and billion a year, but because they don't pay their employees enough the employees get public assistance like welfare... So in other words the tax payers pay instead of McDonald's.... Hmmm let McDonald's spend the billions they make or make the tax payers pay the McDonald's employees because McDonald's doesn't want to pay them enough.

This type of mentality is why most American workers., not just min wage ones, are grossly underpaid and have no benefits. This applies to the middle class as well.
I would disagree.

In my opinion, the reason why some corporations are able to get away with paying employees BELOW market value is specifically because of things like government agreeing to subsidize the difference of what the corporation won't pay.

Think of it like this. If you got your below market value wage from McDonald's but then there was no benefit from the government, people would say to themselves "McDonald's doesn't pay enough. I'm not willing to work for that little money". That's market value. You have to pay what people are willing to work for. If people aren't willing to work for what you're offering, you have to offer more. Government agreeing to pay the rest is exactly why McDonald's can afford to pay employees less than they are worth.

If you started a business, and people were only willing to work for your business at $20 an hour, that's the market value. If I agreed to pay YOUR employees $8 an hour out of my pocket, you now only have to pay your employees $12 an hour. Because I'm stupidly giving away my money, you now get to pay your employees less than market value. If I take away my $8 an hour though, you now have to pay the the full $20, or lose your employees.

The government is just enabling businesses to pay less than market value.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Spot on. Most Americans have been raised to blindly worship the billionaires and corporations for some reason even though the billionaires and corporations rape them as well as the rest of us.

Poor and middle-class Americans who continually vote Republican epitomize the useful idiot.

[secund2nun]

If it were really "every man for himself" here in America, then there would be no welfare, we wouldn't be giving illegal aliens drivers licenses and better rights than legal citizens, there would be no assistance, I wouldn't be paying for everyone elses mistakes and laziness.

Sadly, America's being destroyed by the liberal agenda

What liberal agenda? We have corporatist who work for the big banks and big corporations on the right and more corporatists who work for the banks and corps on the left.

Just because the media labels these corporate puppet politicians as liberals doesn't mean it's true. It's an illusion. Obama voted to give trillions in hand out bailouts to the big banks and corps. A socialist would have given it to the people. A socialist would have made a free national health system. Obamas system forces you to buy ripoff poor quality health insurance from private for profit companies. Obama appoints high level corporate employees all through out the government like the Monsanto exec to run the FDA. That is corporatism or fascism.

[Graviton]

If it were really "every man for himself" here in America, then there would be no welfare, we wouldn't be giving illegal aliens drivers licenses and better rights than legal citizens, there would be no assistance, I wouldn't be paying for everyone elses mistakes and laziness.

Sadly, America's being destroyed by the liberal agenda
Do you think the chump change spent on Welfare is actually a big part of our spending? Our government gives more to banks and shell corporations, and all the tax cuts and loop holes for the 1% result in more money lost than all the social programs combined.

"America is being destroyed by liberal agenda". Please, did those Welfare programs cause the 2008 collapse? :oldlol:

[NumberSix]

Poor and middle-class Americans who continually vote Republican epitomize the useful idiot.
It's the exact opposite.

Conservative minded people would gladly say "if you have a job, you can't collect welfare". Then it becomes McDonald's responsibility to pay employees a fair market value wage.

It's the democrats that constantly want to give people welfare handouts which specifically enables a corporation like McDonald's to pay an unfairly low wage.

[BigBoss]

College education is free there too WITH an allowance. Europe is where it's attt

[NumberSix]

Do you think the chump change spent on Welfare is actually a big part of our spending? Our government gives more to banks and shell corporations, and all the tax cuts and loop holes for the 1% result in more money lost than all the social programs combined.

"America is being destroyed by liberal agenda". Please, did those Welfare programs cause the 2008 collapse? :oldlol:
No, but the government certainly did quite a bit of market rigging.

Honestly, if I was in the banking business and my bank was one that didn't fail, I would have sued the government for market rigging. If your bank does bad business and fails, you go out of business. The ones that do good business stay in business. If you are a bank that did good business and your competitors fail, it is absolutely market rigging for the government to step in and bailout your competitor who failed.

[secund2nun]

I would disagree.

In my opinion, the reason why some corporations are able to get away with paying employees BELOW market value is specifically because of things like government agreeing to subsidize the difference of what the corporation won't pay.

Think of it like this. If you got your below market value wage from McDonald's but then there was no benefit from the government, people would say to themselves "McDonald's doesn't pay enough. I'm not willing to work for that little money". That's market value. You have to pay what people are willing to work for. If people aren't willing to work for what you're offering, you have to offer more. Government agreeing to pay the rest is exactly why McDonald's can afford to pay employees less than they are worth.

If you started a business, and people were only willing to work for your business at $20 an hour, that's the market value. If I agreed to pay YOUR employees $8 an hour out of my pocket, you now only have to pay your employees $12 an hour. Because I'm stupidly giving away my money, you now get to pay your employees less than market value. If I take away my $8 an hour though, you now have to pay the the full $20, or lose your employees.

The government is just enabling businesses to pay less than market value.

The government and big business are certainly in bed together. They do work together and big business is subsided by the government in labor as you mentioned. The Alliance should
Be broken up, but removing safety nets would just result in a lower quality of life. Places that have little safety nets like India China Mexico still have Low wages and no benefits..... But only no safety net. As long as the corporations control the government they would still have the edge. In a true free market economy wages would be competitive but there is nothing that can prevent a capitalist economy from turning into corporatism as the economic winners will eventually start buying politicians.

[KNOW1EDGE]

You do realize that you benefit from other people's taxes, right?

People act like the only thing tax money goes towards is social welfare lol.

Um.

My point wasn't to prove that taxes don't benefit me. Or that ALL taxes go to benefit poor, lazy people.

My point is, America's motto is most certainly NOT "every man for himself" -welfare is a prime example that disproves that theory. Along with the other things I mentiones, amongst countless others.

[Graviton]

The government and big business are certainly in bed together. They do work together and big business is subsided by the government in labor as you mentioned. The Alliance should
Be broken up, but removing safety nets would just result in a lower quality of life. Places that have little safety nets like India China Mexico still have Low wages and no benefits..... But only no safety net. As long as the corporations control the government they would still have the edge. In a true free market economy wages would be competitive but there is nothing that can prevent a capitalist economy from turning into corporatism as the economic winners will eventually start buying politicians.

Ever since the Supreme Court allowed unlimited spending by corporations in candidate elections I realized they have even them in their pocket.

The whole system has been corrupted.

[NumberSix]

The government and big business are certainly in bed together. They do work together and big business is subsided by the government in labor as you mentioned. The Alliance should
Be broken up, but removing safety nets would just result in a lower quality of life.
I didn't say no safety net. Just, you can't collect welfare if you have a job. This is exactly why McDonald's and Wal-mart are paying just exactly enough that their employees can collect from the government.

That needs to end. Tell these corporations "no more handouts. You wanna stay in business? Pay your employees out of your own pocket. You gotta spend money to make money. No workers, no business."


In a true free market economy wages would be competitive but there is nothing that can prevent a capitalist economy from turning into corporatism as the economic winners will eventually start buying politicians.
Sure there is. Right now, the system is based on corporations sponsoring politicians that will keep the policies that enable their market rigging in place. In an actual free market, there is no benefit to a corporation sponsoring one candidate over another. Government tampering with the market is exactly what gives corporations a vested interest in sponsoring the candidates that uphold the market tampering practices.

[ThePhantomCreep]

It's the exact opposite.

Conservative minded people would gladly say "if you have a job, you can't collect welfare". Then it becomes McDonald's responsibility to pay employees a fair market value wage.

It's the democrats that constantly want to give people welfare handouts which specifically enables a corporation like McDonald's to pay an unfairly low wage.

Yeah, because McDonald's is just dying to step up to the plate and pay their employees a living wage. Uh huh, you bet. They'd pay less if they could.

Why is it that conservatives rarely bitch about corporate welfare? The top fortune 500 companies (McDonald's included) received a combined $63 billion in subsidies just last year, where's the outrage? Where's the call for their "personal responsibility"? Why are social programs LIKE SNAP always targeted? Programs that mostly benefit children and the elderly?

[Graviton]

Um.

My point wasn't to prove that taxes don't benefit me. Or that ALL taxes go to benefit poor, lazy people.

My point is, America's motto is most certainly NOT "every man for himself" -welfare is a prime example that disproves that theory. Along with the other things I mentiones, amongst countless others.
I didn't mean LITERALLY "every man for himself", obviously there are some things government does to help those in need. But compared to most developed nations, we have the biggest wealth/income gap, the most homeless people, the most individuals in jails. Even percentage wise we are on top of the list.

The government does more for banks and corporations then they do their own citizens. Welfare is nothing compared to the spending on those two. You can't concentrate on the minority and miss the bigger picture.

[NumberSix]

Yeah, because McDonald's is just dying to step up to the plate and pay their employees a living wage. Uh huh, you bet. They'd pay less if they could.

No, that's the exact point. McDonald's wants to pay as little as possible. The government paying McDonald's employees is the exact reason why McDonald's can pay as little as they currently do.



Why is it that conservatives rarely bitch about corporate welfare? The top fortune 500 companies (McDonald's included) received a combined $63 billion in subsidies just last year, where's the outrage? Where's the call for their "personal responsibility"? Why are social programs LIKE SNAP always targeted? Programs that mostly benefit children and the elderly?
The government paying McDonald's employees with taxpayer money IS corporate welfare. Because the government gives these workers money, McDonald's doesn't have to. :hammerhead:

Corporations shouldn't see a single cent from the government. But because the government tampers with the market, companies have a vested interest in backing the candidates that will carry on the corruption.

The key is, the government should completely stay out of the market. No subsidies, no paying their workers so they don't have to, no interfering, no loopholes, no bailouts, etc.. Just stay out of it.

[Blue&Orange]

right wingers are so incredibly dumb, they go balls deep defending capitalism when they don't have a ****ing clue what capitalism is.

McDonalds workers are part of a corporation that makes 3 billions of profit every 3 months, WHO DA **** CARES THEY DON'T HAVE DIPLOMAS!

How much revenue do public schools do? THIS IS ****ING CAPITALISM, if you work on some corporation that makes MORE money you should be paid MORE.

But right wingers retards are the first in line against raises when it goes 100% against what capitalism is all about.

Seriously i would prefer my son to turn out gay then be a right winger.

[KNOW1EDGE]

Wants his son to be homosexual, calls other people dumb. Lol ^^^^

[NumberSix]

right wingers are so incredibly dumb, they go balls deep defending capitalism when they don't have a ****ing clue what capitalism is.

McDonalds workers are part of a corporation that makes 3 billions of profit every 3 months, WHO DA **** CARES THEY DON'T HAVE DIPLOMAS!

How much revenue do public schools do? THIS IS ****ING CAPITALISM, if you work on some corporation that makes MORE money you should be paid MORE.

But right wingers retards are the first in line against raises when it goes 100% against what capitalism is all about.

Seriously i would prefer my son to turn out gay then be a right winger.
Who is arguing about raises? Are you in the wrong thread?:confusedshrug:

[SunsN07BookIt]

2 pages and not one mention of the fact that Denmark's corporate tax rate is 23%(going down to 22% in 2016) while the the US's is 39%-55.9%. Denmark's payroll tax is also only 8% while the US payroll tax can be as high as 15+% for the big companies. Hmm I wonder if that might have anything to do with them being able to pay the workers more and not raise prices. But don't think the Denmark government is getting cheated out of taxes. The MINIMUM *individual tax rate is 46% after the first $7700(USD eq), so you ain't keeping that whole $20 hour bra. Oh yeah, did anyone mention that Big Mac has a 25% sales tax added on top of it.....

If you think McDonald's can pay workers the same as Denmark without raising prices or restructuring the corporate and payroll tax rate then I have a question?


http://i.imgur.com/Sm8JX6B.gif


*edit: sorry left that part out

[secund2nun]

I didn't say no safety net. Just, you can't collect welfare if you have a job. This is exactly why McDonald's and Wal-mart are paying just exactly enough that their employees can collect from the government.

That needs to end. Tell these corporations "no more handouts. You wanna stay in business? Pay your employees out of your own pocket. You gotta spend money to make money. No workers, no business."


But would it work that way? Around the world when this has happened it only results in low paid workers with no benefits at all and no government safety net. This is why Latin America got fed up with it and embraced the pink tide and now quality of life has increase there.



Sure there is. Right now, the system is based on corporations sponsoring politicians that will keep the policies that enable their market rigging in place. In an actual free market, there is no benefit to a corporation sponsoring one candidate over another. Government tampering with the market is exactly what gives corporations a vested interest in sponsoring the candidates that uphold the market tampering practices.

You are right in a true free market the government can't interfere with the market... But America once was like this where the government couldn't interfere with the market... And slowly but surely the big banks and corporations especially the federal Reserve bought off the politicians and the politicians started to abuse their powers in the interest of the corporations and banks. Money buys control even if it requires people to go against their countries laws to abuse power.

Also making it worse we have a private media that manipulates everyone's thoughts and it is owned by billionaires with an agenda. The big banking families that started the federal Reserve won the public over by buying the media, brainwashing everyone, and launching Woodrow Wilson to power who then created the federal reserve.

[NumberSix]

But would it work that way? Around the world when this has happened it only results in low paid workers with no benefits at all and no government safety net. This is why Latin America got fed up with it and embraced the pink tide and now quality of life has increase there.



You are right in a true free market the government can't interfere with the market... But America once was like this where the government couldn't interfere with the market... And slowly but surely the big banks and corporations especially the federal Reserve bought off the politicians and the politicians started to abuse their powers in the interest of the corporations and banks. Money buys control even if it requires people to go against their countries laws to abuse power.

Also making it worse we have a private media that manipulates everyone's thoughts and it is owned by billionaires with an agenda. The big banking families that started the federal Reserve won the public over by buying the media, brainwashing everyone, and launching Woodrow Wilson to power who then created the federal reserve.
There is one fail safe, cure all solution. What is it?

The public actually paying attention. Who people vote for is really all tht matters. Unfortunately, people don't seem to really care about corruption. There's no downside to being a corporate owned politician. The public isn't paying attention, so they won't even know that you work for (insert corporation) instead the public.

[cuad]

Unions are corrupt and greedy. Corporations should be left unchallenged since they make the best decisions for their employees.
Agreed 100%. That's what I love about America.

http://i.imgur.com/Hs9epsp.png

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[Rizko]

Sadly in America nowadays it's "every man for himself". People don't realize they are part of society, too busy fighting among themselves on racial or social issues while the guys up top just laugh and watch the wealth/income inequality grow.
Exactly. What you guys fail to recognize is the fact that the labor force is needed just as much as the employer to make the money. Its a fallacy that's been perpetuated in modern America that the laborer has no value in comparison to the corp they work for.

When I worked at a relatively slow McDicks I saw a financial statement. They paid non management employees 14 grand in a week. 10 grand to management employees and 20 grand in overhead. that's 44 grand. They pulled in 64 grand. meaning 20 grand when up to corporate. This McDonalds was part of a chain in my area that included like 6 others. So if we assume everything to be the same that means corp. gets 120k in profit per week.

I have no problem with them making money but the issue is that by keeping so much money at the top it leads to worker apathy, more waste, less quality, and creates further social problems.

If people refer back to there econ 101 classes I'm sure you guys talked about the concept of a liquidity trap. This was an issue during the great depression. When people would remove money from the banks and hoard instead of letting it circulate. It was because of this the social welfare programs we see today were created. The economy works by the movement of money between parties and the more money the lower class has the more that can be spent as spread throughout the rest of the economy. Leading to rising profits in the long term for the people at the top, due to the fact they can reasonably raise prices without hurting there sales figures.

Essentially I think a big issue in the modern economy is that we are experience another form of a liquidity trap. This time instead of it not being in banks is stashed in the hands of the ultra wealthy of the country. If you have 1 million youll spend more then if you had 100K, just like if you had 10 mil you spend more then if you had 1, but at a certain point you reach a saturation point where the more money you make itll just be collecting up. Is someone that has 10 bil gonna spend less then if they had 20 bil? Now the issue is finding where that saturation point is.

Another issue is that even if you don't think much of a McDicks employee they are in the same level as you. Even if you work in middle management in a big company you are just a cog in a machine. So by degrading the mcdonalds employee your also in turn devaluing yourself and essentially making the proposition that low level employees are easily replaceable and not worth the economic investment from the company's owners. Instead all people in the low level postions should be fighting together to get real play across the board because they are you and you are them. Unless your a CEO your interests should lie with the lower level employees who are at the same basic level of you. Even if your at a better job and have a degree and advanced a few spots in your job and make 100k, your still closer to the mcdonalds grill guy then you are to the CEO of your company and unless all the working class employees stand up and demand to stop the mistreatment we experience this cycle will continue perpetually.

Now this does need to be within reason. No one says a McDonalds employee needs to make 30 or 40 and hour, but would 12 be that outrageous? We are just as much a part of the profits the company derives as the CEOs are. You can say without the CEO the company would fail but without the low level employee that company would fail too. While we are more replaceable it isn't to the extent that company's make it seem, within reason because obviously anyone could figure out how to work at McDonalds, tho the speed of the job is vastly underrated, when I worked there we had to make orders with 30 secs or less, which sounds easy but your getting a lot of 4 or 5 sandwich orders along with nugs and shit so it requires more thought and more effort then people are willing to admit. This is due to the fact that we've been indoctrinated into believing anyone working an unsavory job is essentially worthless and were above them, when really were close to the same level all things considered. Also if we created a more balanced pay system social welfare programs wouldn't need to be as far reaching as they are now and they would have more money to work with as well.

Just my thoughts on the issue. I was rambling and IDK if it all makes sense. Im sure someone will call me out for being dumb and I wont disagree. I'm not a trained economist. I would like someone like Jailblazers to read over this tho and give me there 2 cents on the issue.

[PHX_Phan]

Exactly. What you guys fail to recognize is the fact that the labor force is needed just as much as the employer to make the money. Its a fallacy that's been perpetuated in modern America that the laborer has no value in comparison to the corp they work for.

When I worked at a relatively slow McDicks I saw a financial statement. They paid non management employees 14 grand in a week. 10 grand to management employees and 20 grand in overhead. that's 44 grand. They pulled in 64 grand. meaning 20 grand when up to corporate. This McDonalds was part of a chain in my area that included like 6 others. So if we assume everything to be the same that means corp. gets 120k in profit per week.

I have no problem with them making money but the issue is that by keeping so much money at the top it leads to worker apathy, more waste, less quality, and creates further social problems.

If people refer back to there econ 101 classes I'm sure you guys talked about the concept of a liquidity trap. This was an issue during the great depression. When people would remove money from the banks and hoard instead of letting it circulate. It was because of this the social welfare programs we see today were created. The economy works by the movement of money between parties and the more money the lower class has the more that can be spent as spread throughout the rest of the economy. Leading to rising profits in the long term for the people at the top, due to the fact they can reasonably raise prices without hurting there sales figures.

Essentially I think a big issue in the modern economy is that we are experience another form of a liquidity trap. This time instead of it not being in banks is stashed in the hands of the ultra wealthy of the country. If you have 1 million youll spend more then if you had 100K, just like if you had 10 mil you spend more then if you had 1, but at a certain point you reach a saturation point where the more money you make itll just be collecting up. Is someone that has 10 bil gonna spend less then if they had 20 bil? Now the issue is finding where that saturation point is.

Another issue is that even if you don't think much of a McDicks employee they are in the same level as you. Even if you work in middle management in a big company you are just a cog in a machine. So by degrading the mcdonalds employee your also in turn devaluing yourself and essentially making the proposition that low level employees are easily replaceable and not worth the economic investment from the company's owners. Instead all people in the low level postions should be fighting together to get real play across the board because they are you and you are them. Unless your a CEO your interests should lie with the lower level employees who are at the same basic level of you. Even if your at a better job and have a degree and advanced a few spots in your job and make 100k, your still closer to the mcdonalds grill guy then you are to the CEO of your company and unless all the working class employees stand up and demand to stop the mistreatment we experience this cycle will continue perpetually.

Now this does need to be within reason. No one says a McDonalds employee needs to make 30 or 40 and hour, but would 12 be that outrageous? We are just as much a part of the profits the company derives as the CEOs are. You can say without the CEO the company would fail but without the low level employee that company would fail too. While we are more replaceable it isn't to the extent that company's make it seem, within reason because obviously anyone could figure out how to work at McDonalds, tho the speed of the job is vastly underrated, when I worked there we had to make orders with 30 secs or less, which sounds easy but your getting a lot of 4 or 5 sandwich orders along with nugs and shit so it requires more thought and more effort then people are willing to admit. This is due to the fact that we've been indoctrinated into believing anyone working an unsavory job is essentially worthless and were above them, when really were close to the same level all things considered. Also if we created a more balanced pay system social welfare programs wouldn't need to be as far reaching as they are now and they would have more money to work with as well.

Just my thoughts on the issue. I was rambling and IDK if it all makes sense. Im sure someone will call me out for being dumb and I wont disagree. I'm not a trained economist. I would like someone like Jailblazers to read over this tho and give me there 2 cents on the issue.

:applause:

Repped even though it won't do much

[NBAplayoffs2001]

They make an average of 28000 thousand after taxes which is double what most American McDonald's workers get before taxes... Plus all of those taxes give the people of Denmark free health care, excellent public transportation, free college etc.

I met a family from Denmark when I was in Istanbul. They seemed so relaxed and have said that the stress of getting a career of your choice without really worrying about the money and all the gov't expenses.

[Rizko]

:applause:

Repped even though it won't do much
Thanks. Im gonna rep you back just for slogging thru that lol.

I would appreciate any thoughts on what I said. Even if you don't completely agree or outright disagree.

Knowledge can only be gained thru hearing oppositional thoughts to your own.

[Rizko]

I suggest people to read up on the veil of opulence. It gets into more specifics about some of the things I was talking about

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/12/the-veil-of-opulence/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

http://www.partiallyexaminedlife.com/2012/08/14/the-veil-of-opulence/

[bdreason]

The problem with raising wages, or raising the minimum wage, is that it mostly effects privately owned mom and pop shops... who already struggle to compete with their corporate counterparts.

While I'm sure a corporation like McDonalds who makes <20k a week can afford to pay their employees $12 an hour... the mom and pop burger joint down the street who makes >5k a week can't.


There have been a lot of good ideas in this thread, but the truth is, it's already way too late for serious change. America is dominated by multi-national corporations, and they won't stop until they own everything, and everyone works for them.

If you're looking for security, you're best bet is to work for a corporation, and climb as high up the ladder and you can. The higher you make it, the less you're being exploited. I would personally NEVER work for a corporation. I've been anti-corporate America for about a decade now, and fortunately have a career where I'm my own boss, and only have to sell myself (service).

[Nanners]

While I'm sure a corporation like McDonalds who makes <20k a week can afford to pay their employees $12 an hour... the mom and pop burger joint down the street who makes >5k a week can't.


this argument doesnt really hold up when you look at places with high minimum wage like australia or western european countries. there are plenty of small mom and pop businesses in countries like denmark that manage to pay their employees high wages and get along just fine. its not like giant corporations are taking over europe because they are the only ones who can afford to pay higher labor costs.

[NumberSix]

While I'm sure a corporation like McDonalds who makes <20k a week can afford to pay their employees $12 an hour... the mom and pop burger joint down the street who makes >5k a week can't.
If you can't compete, why shouldn't you go out of business?

If the mom&pop burger joint down the street doesn't do enough business because not many people want to go there and buy their products, why shouldn't that business fail?

[tomtucker]

They make an average of 28000 thousand after taxes which is double what most American McDonald's workers get before taxes... Plus all of those taxes give the people of Denmark free health care, excellent public transportation, free college etc.

right............. but housing, food , etc. is twice as expensive as in the US.....so it comes out about even

[NumberSix]

right............. but housing, food , etc. is twice as expensive as in the US.....so it comes out about even
^important point. You can't just compare money. You have to also account for the money in relation to CPI.

[bdreason]

this argument doesnt really hold up when you look at places with high minimum wage like australia or western european countries. there are plenty of small mom and pop businesses in countries like denmark that manage to pay their employees high wages and get along just fine. its not like giant corporations are taking over europe because they are the only ones who can afford to pay higher labor costs.


I can't speak on Western Europe, but the small business failure rate in the States is around 50%, and that only increases with time. After 10 years the failure rate approaches 75% in most industries. Also, keep in mind that these are failure rates. Lots of mom and pop business limp along for years, often building up debt before they finally fold.

Mom and pop shops typically don't compete on price, they compete on quality and service. That means that many mom and pop shops are already paying their employees more than corporations like McDonalds, because they have to demand more from their employees to compensate for the higher price. Mom and pop shops are also already typically paying more on product cost as well, for a wide variety of reasons.

Anyways, the point is that mom and pop shops typically operate on a much smaller margin than a corporation. Raising the minimum wage $3 isn't going to bankrupt McDonalds, but it may put a mom and pop shop out of business.

I have a friend who owns 3 Pizza Huts, and he operates on a very small profit margin. He was stressing out on me when the minimum wage recently went up to $9... I wouldn't even answer the phone if the minimum wage went up to $12. The crazy thing about a corporation like Pizza Hut is that they are actually willing to take losses in the States by selling $5 large pizzas, because they can subsidize those losses with expansion and profits in other countries. You think my friend wants to sell a large pizza for $5? What do you think the profit margin is on selling a large pizza for $5? After paying rent, utilities, wages, etc?

The truth is, Pizza Hut doesn't care. They get their franchise fee and if the business survives or fails doesn't really matter. If they can't find someone willing to pay their franchise fee in a certain area, they just set up a corporate store and pay someone to run it. If you want to find a corporate ran store, just look for the one with the worst reviews. :oldlol:

[bdreason]

If you can't compete, why shouldn't you go out of business?

If the mom&pop burger joint down the street doesn't do enough business because not many people want to go there and buy their products, why shouldn't that business fail?


The point is that many mom and pop shops don't fail because they offer an inferior product or service. They fail because they can't compete with multi-national corporations who benefit from economies of scale.


If you have no problem with corporations owning everything, and everyone working for a corporation, then it's all good. I would prefer that all our grandchildren didn't have to work for Walmart.

[L8kersfan222]

Ask if you can be relocated.
ohhhhh fucckkkkk :lebronamazed:

[Nick Young]

Dawg those people have to pay so much in taxes+$20 will not go very far in that expensive country.

I went to Norway and cans of beer were $8, macdonalds was like $10 for a big and tasty meal, pretty sure Danish prices would be similar.

That place is very nice to live in but also insanely expensive.

[Nick Young]

The point is that many mom and pop shops don't fail because they offer an inferior product or service. They fail because they can't compete with multi-national corporations who benefit from economies of scale.


If you have no problem with corporations owning everything, and everyone working for a corporation, then it's all good. I would prefer that all our grandchildren didn't have to work for Walmart.
they offer inferior marketing and advertising then. Business isn't all about providing superior product. Mom and pop shops that fail deserve to fail. Natural selection.

[DCL]

the scandinavian countries regularly rank in the top-10 for happiest countries in the world. even finland, which is boring as hell to visit or live in. copenhagen, denmark is a fun city though.

[DwnShft2Xcelr8]

Only in the US is asking for a living wage a bad thing.
"You can't survive off of $9/hour? Gtfo." :facepalm

[Nick Young]

Only in the US is asking for a living wage a bad thing.
"You can't survive off of $9/hour? Gtfo." :facepalm
If you don't want to do the shitty job that is easy and anyone can do with minimal training, nothing is stopping you from quitting the job and seeking a form of employment that pays more.

[secund2nun]

There is one fail safe, cure all solution. What is it?

The public actually paying attention. Who people vote for is really all tht matters. Unfortunately, people don't seem to really care about corruption. There's no downside to being a corporate owned politician. The public isn't paying attention, so they won't even know that you work for (insert corporation) instead the public.

That's the problem with representative governments.... It's literally impossible to stop people from bribing the representatives. This is why a Swiss style direct democracy is better.

[secund2nun]

right............. but housing, food , etc. is twice as expensive as in the US.....so it comes out about even


No it doesn't. The Danish have a much higher quality of life than America just like mom to Western Europe. Despite much higher wages they also work fewer hours averaging 33 hours per week . They have free health care and low cost quality public transportation. They also get paid money to go to college whole our students are drown in tens of thousands of dollars of debt. They also eat much higher quality food while Americans have the worst quality diet on earth.

It doesn't equal out. Denmark comes out way ahead.

[secund2nun]

If you don't want to do the shitty job that is easy and anyone can do with minimal training, nothing is stopping you from quitting the job and seeking a form of employment that pays more.

There are a finite amount of jobs available. There are not enough high level jobs and there never will be. There will always have to be Lower level employees.

[Nick Young]

There are a finite amount of jobs available. There are not enough high level jobs and there never will be. There will always have to be Lower level employees.
Glad to know that you understand how the world works:applause:

[aj1987]

:oldlol: @ people who flip burgers and sweep the store making $20 an hour.

[Nick Young]

No it doesn't. The Danish have a much higher quality of life than America just like mom to Western Europe. Despite much higher wages they also work fewer hours averaging 33 hours per week . They have free health care and low cost quality public transportation. They also get paid money to go to college whole our students are drown in tens of thousands of dollars of debt. They also eat much higher quality food while Americans have the worst quality diet on earth.

It doesn't equal out. Denmark comes out way ahead.
They also have a tiny population of 5 million people. The whole country has 3 million less people then New York City:lol . The Danish lifestyle would not be the same if the country had the population of the United States.

[Nick Young]

:oldlol: @ people who flip burgers and sweep the store making $20 an hour.
and $8 for a can of beer at the supermarket:lol

The Scandanavian lifestyle is unsustainable. It will go away once their oil dries up.

[DCL]

their cost of living is a bit higher, but they do earn enough to do things that most people in the world want. if they save enough, they can travel to cheap countries. i remember going to cambodia and meeting danish backpackers who said they work at a supermarket back home, and they were on the road for months. i don't think anyone in the states who works at a supermarket can do that. denmark is like the "happiest" country in the world. i think incomes play a huge role.

[Bandito]

I wonder how Denmark military is compare to the US.

[tomtucker]

No it doesn't. The Danish have a much higher quality of life than America just like mom to Western Europe. Despite much higher wages they also work fewer hours averaging 33 hours per week . They have free health care and low cost quality public transportation. They also get paid money to go to college whole our students are drown in tens of thousands of dollars of debt. They also eat much higher quality food while Americans have the worst quality diet on earth.

It doesn't equal out. Denmark comes out way ahead.

but there are huge taxes on everything........and property tax is very high, having your own house is very expensive...........plus extra charges/taxes on water and power......called "green tax" roughly translated.....

.
....... and free healthcare yes, but not at the dentist..........and they are very expensive

[tomSR.]

Dawg those people have to pay so much in taxes+$20 will not go very far in that expensive country.

I went to Norway and cans of beer were $8, macdonalds was like $10 for a big and tasty meal, pretty sure Danish prices would be similar.

That place is very nice to live in but also insanely expensive.

no doubt.........btw, fun fact: that burger is called "big tasty" there......only in the US and perhaps elsewhere is it called big"and" tasty............kinda like the movie pulp fiction, where they talk about what burgers are called in europe .........:oldlol: :D

[tomSR.]

in some places/countries they only serve a big tasty bacon........you can order the burger without bacon, but you still have to pay full price !.........no doubt customer service and friendliness is better in the US

[Nick Young]

In India they serve lamb burgers instead of beef burgers.

[dannywpt]

I ate at McDonalds a few days ago. Big tasty bacon menu cost me 16 dollars. :(

[TheMan]

If it were really "every man for himself" here in America, then there would be no welfare, we wouldn't be giving illegal aliens drivers licenses and better rights than legal citizens, there would be no assistance, I wouldn't be paying for everyone elses mistakes and laziness.

Sadly, America's being destroyed by the liberal agenda
This is the dumbest post I've read today :applause:

[SunsN07BookIt]

No it doesn't. The Danish have a much higher quality of life than America just like mom to Western Europe. Despite much higher wages they also work fewer hours averaging 33 hours per week . They have free health care and low cost quality public transportation. They also get paid money to go to college whole our students are drown in tens of thousands of dollars of debt. They also eat much higher quality food while Americans have the worst quality diet on earth.

It doesn't equal out. Denmark comes out way ahead.


According to the 2014 world quality of life index, Denmark is below the US. But I notice one thing about the European countries with a high quality of life index, in that they all have strict immigration policies. It's much easier for wages to remain high when you don't have immigrants flooding in and willing to work for almost anything.

http://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/rankings_by_country.jsp

[Nick Young]

Denmark is also incredibly xenophobic vs immigrants and non-white Danish.

The place is very very clean, but the people are all goody two-shoes rule followers. Like if someone puts their feet up on a chair in the tube, another person will respectfully ask them to take their feet down to keep the train clean.

Nothing wrong with wanting to protect what you paying taxes for, but do you ever see Americans having that same kind of attitude?:confusedshrug:

[tomSR.]

Denmark is also incredibly xenophobic vs immigrants and non-white Danish.

The place is very very clean, but the people are all goody two-shoes rule followers. Like if someone puts their feet up on a chair in the tube, another person will respectfully ask them to take their feet down to keep the train clean.

Nothing wrong with wanting to protect what you paying taxes for, but do you ever see Americans having that same kind of attitude?:confusedshrug:

but there is nothing wrong with wanting to protect your country and legacy.........and pretty sure americans also would tell someone not to put his or her dirty shoes on a train seat, where you might end up sitting on different day.......nobody likes to get their pants or shorts dirty

[Nick Young]

but there is nothing wrong with wanting to protect your country and legacy.........and pretty sure americans also would tell someone not to put his or her dirty shoes on a train seat, where you might end up sitting a on different day.......nobody likes to get their pants or shorts dirty
yeah exactly, theres nothing wrong with it, just saying can you ever imagine Americans self policing public transport like that? As an American I sure as hell can't:lol

Same as in Berlin, there aren't even any guards or rails for the public transport. You can just walk down a stair case and board a train, without buying a ticket and no one will stop you.

Ticket collectors rarely rarely come around, and let you off with a warning if they catch you without a ticket.

AND STILL-everyone buys a ticket.

Can you imagine that happening in New York or LA? Would all of us Americans buy tickets on an honour system public transport?:confusedshrug:

[kNIOKAS]

If you can't compete, why shouldn't you go out of business?

If the mom&pop burger joint down the street doesn't do enough business because not many people want to go there and buy their products, why shouldn't that business fail?
That's exactly why Capitalism will fail. Big corporations controlling means of production and establishing monopolies. BAM.
:cheers:

[NumberSix]

That's exactly why Capitalism will fail. Big corporations controlling means of production and establishing monopolies. BAM.
:cheers:
Very well thought out argument. :rolleyes:

[kNIOKAS]

Very well thought out argument. :rolleyes:
Yep, and you need to think about it.

[NumberSix]

Yep, and you need to think about it.
Explain for me, how exactly a corporation would go about controlling means of production? It goes without saying how a government could achieve this, but how does a corporation do such a thing?

[Nanners]

Anyways, the point is that mom and pop shops typically operate on a much smaller margin than a corporation. Raising the minimum wage $3 isn't going to bankrupt McDonalds, but it may put a mom and pop shop out of business.


if your margins are so small that a small raise to the minimum wage will put you out of business, you need to re-examine your business model and consider that maybe you should not be in business in the first place.

[kNIOKAS]

Explain for me, how exactly a corporation would go about controlling means of production? It goes without saying how a government could achieve this, but how does a corporation do such a thing?
What?

[Nick Young]

Do peeps not understand that if minimum wage is raised up something like $3 or more, the price of everything else, from property rent to toothpaste at Save-Ons will go up as well? There will be absolutely no point to it. It won't benefit anyone.

[kNIOKAS]

Do peeps not understand that if minimum wage is raised up something like $3 or more, the price of everything else, from property rent to toothpaste at Save-Ons will go up as well? There will be absolutely no point to it. It won't benefit anyone.
Not necessarily. You are assuming things are if it is free market in US and equilibrium is reached. Neither is true.

[ALBballer]

Denmark is a corporate tax haven. US corporations subsidize their way of living as well.

Not to mention US military essentially subsidizes their defense because they spend 1.4% of their GDP on defense while US is around 4-5%.

So while we Americans get ****ed by our gov't and corporations these Danes live it up.

[Blue&Orange]

Do peeps not understand that if minimum wage is raised up something like $3 or more, the price of everything else, from property rent to toothpaste at Save-Ons will go up as well? There will be absolutely no point to it. It won't benefit anyone.
If this was posted by someone else the immediate thought would be, no one can be this stupid.. but since it was you it comes as no surprise.

I'm just amazed how people still are able to argue with you, myself even i was dying for social interaction i still would prefer to engage in conversation with a brick wall.


Obviously inflation and all social classes losing tons of purchasing power, aside from that one percentile, in the past decades are alien concepts to you.


The tragedy of dumb people is that they are to dumb to realize they are dumb.

[Nick Young]

If this was posted by someone else the immediate thought would be, no one can be this stupid.. but since it was you it comes as no surprise.

I'm just amazed how people still are able to argue with you, myself even i was dying for social interaction i still would prefer to engage in conversation with a brick wall.


Obviously inflation and all social classes losing tons of purchasing power, aside from that one percentile, in the past decades are alien concepts to you.


The tragedy of dumb people is that they are to dumb to realize they are dumb.
sorry for posting the truth breh

[Blue&Orange]

sorry for posting the truth breh
Try to scare people that giving more money to poor people will make you loose buying power when that have been happening for decades in benefit of them poor billionaires isn't the truth breh...


It's always funny to see people defending the agenda of the people that constantly anally rapes them.


Keep watching them Fox news breh...

[Dresta]

I would disagree.

In my opinion, the reason why some corporations are able to get away with paying employees BELOW market value is specifically because of things like government agreeing to subsidize the difference of what the corporation won't pay.

Think of it like this. If you got your below market value wage from McDonald's but then there was no benefit from the government, people would say to themselves "McDonald's doesn't pay enough. I'm not willing to work for that little money". That's market value. You have to pay what people are willing to work for. If people aren't willing to work for what you're offering, you have to offer more. Government agreeing to pay the rest is exactly why McDonald's can afford to pay employees less than they are worth.

If you started a business, and people were only willing to work for your business at $20 an hour, that's the market value. If I agreed to pay YOUR employees $8 an hour out of my pocket, you now only have to pay your employees $12 an hour. Because I'm stupidly giving away my money, you now get to pay your employees less than market value. If I take away my $8 an hour though, you now have to pay the the full $20, or lose your employees.

The government is just enabling businesses to pay less than market value.Pretty much.


What liberal agenda? We have corporatist who work for the big banks and big corporations on the right and more corporatists who work for the banks and corps on the left.

Just because the media labels these corporate puppet politicians as liberals doesn't mean it's true. It's an illusion. Obama voted to give trillions in hand out bailouts to the big banks and corps. A socialist would have given it to the people. A socialist would have made a free national health system. Obamas system forces you to buy ripoff poor quality health insurance from private for profit companies. Obama appoints high level corporate employees all through out the government like the Monsanto exec to run the FDA. That is corporatism or fascism.
And socialism always has and always will end up resembling fascism, and these days 'liberal' pretty much means 'socialist'

So it would be fair to say socialism, fascism, and liberalism are 3 ambiguous terms that today describe more-or-less the same thing: a shite political system doomed to failure.

This thread is also pretty moronic in its efforts to compare a nation with less than a hundred Mcdonalds stores to one with tens of thousands. There is always the possibility that the company is losing money in Denmark simply in an effort to expand its market reach (as it has been doing for decades now, worldwide). Increased costs of 35 cents is only small if taken on an individual basis anyway. Times it by hundreds of thousands and then take that money out of places where it might otherwise have gone and you will see that businesses fail (in the long run) as a consequences of this mere 35 cent.

And i don't know why you only compare bigmacs as well, as this is one good served there, and does not represent the overall expense of a trip to McDonalds. European countries don't allow any refills for a start.

[Dresta]

if your margins are so small that a small raise to the minimum wage will put you out of business, you need to re-examine your business model and consider that maybe you should not be in business in the first place.
Just the kind of mentality that has led to the emergence of all the quasi-monopolies your political ideology no doubt leads you to despise.

Contradictions.. contradictions... your opinions logically lead to things you hate yet you can't even see it :roll:

[Booz Vivic]

denmark is the best country to live in in the world. /thread

[tomtucker]

A big mac cost 28,50 danish kroner.......that is around 5 USD , this is some of the highest prices in the world.....and even sodas and fries are expensive as fukk......you do know there is even a thing called "the bigmac index"...........

[kNIOKAS]

Just the kind of mentality that has led to the emergence of all the quasi-monopolies your political ideology no doubt leads you to despise.

Contradictions.. contradictions... your opinions logically lead to things you hate yet you can't even see it :roll:
What are you rambling about?

[Nanners]

Just the kind of mentality that has led to the emergence of all the quasi-monopolies your political ideology no doubt leads you to despise.

Contradictions.. contradictions... your opinions logically lead to things you hate yet you can't even see it :roll:

because denmark only has quasi-monopolies ever since all the places run by mom and pop became unable to afford to pay their employees a higher minimum wage, amirite you stupid cvnt?

[aj1987]

and $8 for a can of beer at the supermarket

The Scandanavian lifestyle is unsustainable. It will go away once their oil dries up.
In a bar? If it's $8 for a beer in a bar, it's not really expensive. In a store? Yeah, that's a bit high. Some of the beers which I buy are ~$3-$6.

Anyways, $20/hr for a fast-food store employee is a lot.



In India they serve lamb burgers instead of beef burgers.
Nope. Not in McDonalds. We do get lamb burgers in restaurants/bars. A lot of places do have beef/pork/etc.

[Nick Young]

In a bar? If it's $8 for a beer in a bar, it's not really expensive. In a store? Yeah, that's a bit high. Some of the beers which I buy are ~$3-$6.

Anyways, $20/hr for a fast-food store employee is a lot.



Nope. Not in McDonalds. We do get lamb burgers in restaurants/bars. A lot of places do have beef/pork/etc.
When I was in India it was lamb burgers dawg. Started in Bombay and went up to Delhi.

[aj1987]

When I was in India it was lamb burgers dawg. Started in Bombay and went up to Delhi.
http://www.mcdonaldsindia.net/burgers-and-wraps.aspx

McDonald's doesn't serve lamb burgers in India. You do find them in a ton of restaurants/bars though.

[SunsN07BookIt]

http://www.mcdonaldsindia.net/burgers-and-wraps.aspx

McDonald's doesn't serve lamb burgers in India. You do find them in a ton of restaurants/bars though.

Damn only chicken and veggie burgers?
:confusedshrug: :cry:

[aj1987]

Damn only chicken and veggie burgers?
:confusedshrug: :cry:
In McDonald's, yes.

[Dresta]

What are you rambling about?
Not anything too difficult. Nothing that anyone of average intellect couldn't understand, but then you're way below the average, as has long been obvious.
because denmark only has quasi-monopolies ever since all the places run by mom and pop became unable to afford to pay their employees a higher minimum wage, amirite you stupid cvnt?
Denmark is a country with less than 6 million inhabitants with a different culture to the US, which has over 350 million inhabitants.

Only an incredibly stupid **** would even bother making such a comparison, and it would take incredible cretinism for said stupid **** to think such an idiocy to be some kind of winning point.

It's not hard to see that things work differently on the small rather than large scale. You'd be far better off comparing Denmark with say, Singapore, which is far more productive (much higher GDP per capita PPP adjusted) and has managed without a minimum wage at all.