Jordan would average less points on the modern era

[rlsmooth775]

Let's be honest watching old footage from the 80s you can see the defense was just simple man to man most of the time lots of transition to. It wasn't nearly as physical as old players like to remember not every team had players who were rough like the pistons. You had the entire dream team crying like babies when they thought isiah Thomas was going to join.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tvz0maaJ6PA

[moe94]

Jordan wasn't even good. Nike just made people think he was because of great marketing. I heard players had to ease up on him so he could score more. It was all a ruse. Plus he was bald.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Jordan wasn't even good. Nike just made people think he was because of great marketing. I heard players had to ease up on him so he could score more. It was all a ruse. Plus he was bald.
Repped for truthfulness

[GrapeApe]

Jordan wasn't even good. Nike just made people think he was because of great marketing. I heard players had to ease up on him so he could score more. It was all a ruse. Plus he was bald.

Yeah and he had a tiny pee pee too.

[JT123]

Yeah and he had a tiny pee pee too.
Rumor has it MJ had the smallest pee pee on the entire Bulls roster.

[SouBeachTalents]

Jordan wasn't even good. Nike just made people think he was because of great marketing. I heard players had to ease up on him so he could score more. It was all a ruse. Plus he was bald.

/thread

[StephHamann]

The Nerdlucks owned Jordan

[ThePhantomCreep]

Jordan averaged 20 a game at 40. The 26-27 year old version would skullrape this league.

[Sarcastic]

Modern defense:

http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/53553afa6bb3f77d58a35745/harden-swaggy-p.gif

[rlsmooth775]

Jordan averaged 20 a game at 40. The 26-27 year old version would skullrape this league.

He might average 8 or 9 more points on better efficiency

[CavaliersFTW]

Defenses were better back then because James harden hadn't been born yet

[rlsmooth775]

Be honest who plays better defense the 86 celtics or 08 celtics

[Kvnzhangyay]

Be honest who plays better defense the 86 celtics or 08 celtics

To be fair brehh your using one of the GOAT defensive teams ever as a comparison

[rlsmooth775]

To be fair brehh your using one of the GOAT defensive teams ever as a comparison

Teams in the 80s would give up 110 plus points nothing but man to man almost 90% of the game

[ArbitraryWater]

So basically you're trying to get banned?

If Mods don't do anything about this, I won't take their shit seriously.. ever

[rlsmooth775]

So basically you're trying to get banned?

If Mods don't do anything about this, I won't take their shit seriously.. ever

Why should they this is a serious thread am I saying any lies did teams in the 80s not give up a lot of points

[ThePhantomCreep]

He might average 8 or 9 more points on better efficiency

34-year old Jordan averaged 30 a game. The league pace that season was lower than 2014's.

I repeat, 26-27 year old Jordan would skullrape today's NBA.

[CavaliersFTW]

Forget mj, let's talk about what Adrian Dantley would do in today's league :rockon:

[rlsmooth775]

34-year old Jordan averaged 30 a game. The league pace that season was lower than 2014's.

I repeat, 26-27 year old Jordan would skullrape today's NBA.

The most I could see jordan averaging in today's game is 31-32 points

[rlsmooth775]

Forget mj, let's talk about what Adrian Dantley would do in today's league :rockon:

He will see more traps and double teams won't be as dominant

[CavaliersFTW]

He will see more traps and double teams won't be as dominant
All hands free though.

[rlsmooth775]

Oh and jordan average 28 a game at 34

[OldSchoolBBall]

Oh and jordan average 28 a game at 34

No, he averaged 30 (29.6 ppg, to be exact). He was 34 for 2/3 of the 1997 season.

[Lebronxrings]

water is wet

[3ball]

All hands free though.
Hands-free.... and with an an open paint that defenders can't occupy for more than 3 seconds - remember, the NBA instituted this rule to "open up the game".

http://grantland.com/features/packing-paint-nba-defensive-strategy-forcing-coaches-rethink-their-offense/

[Cali Syndicate]

MJ = Prime wade slashing ability + Kobe's midrange and post game + lebron's athleticism and interior efficiency + elite IQ

:(

[Calabis]

http://www.netdoo.com/wrong.gif


http://www.awolfamongwolves.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Kevin-Martin2.jpg

This mfer can average 20 a game in today's legendary defensive league, yet a better more athletic version of prime Kobe would struggle somehow

[DonDadda59]

In the '95-'96 season, when Jordan was 32/33, he won his 8th scoring title. He was the only player under 6'9" in the top 5 scorers list (Shaq, Hakeem, D-Rob, Malone were the other 4). Jordan had a 3 PPG lead over the #2 guy (Hakeem).

That Summer, following Jordan's 4th title and 4th Finals MVP, 4 notable swingmen were drafted- Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson, Ray Allen, Steve Nash. Hell of a draft class, loaded with perimeter talent. Any guess when these guys, who were drafted in the mid 90s when Jordan was doing his thing, had their best scoring years?

NBA rule changes
2004-05

[rlsmooth775]

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]In the '95-'96 season, when Jordan was 32/33, he won his 8th scoring title. He was the only player under 6'9" in the top 5 scorers list (Shaq, Hakeem, D-Rob, Malone were the other 4). Jordan had a 3 PPG lead over the #2 guy (Hakeem).

That Summer, following Jordan's 4th title and 4th Finals MVP, 4 notable swingmen were drafted- Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson, Ray Allen, Steve Nash. Hell of a draft class, loaded with perimeter talent. Any guess when these guys, who were drafted in the mid 90s when Jordan was doing his thing, had their best scoring years?

NBA rule changes
2004-05

[rlsmooth775]

http://www.netdoo.com/wrong.gif


http://www.awolfamongwolves.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Kevin-Martin2.jpg

This mfer can average 20 a game in today's legendary defensive league, yet a better more athletic version of prime Kobe would struggle somehow

I didn't say he would struggle

[rlsmooth775]

Anybody who watches old games knows what I'm talking about the defense back than was overrated watch any of the lakers celtics finals games so soft man to man single coverage

[DonDadda59]

Jordan played in a league that allowed teams to score 110 plus points a night

You didn't address any of my points. That's team scoring due to pace. Kobe and Iverson, both guys who were drafted in Jordan's era but didn't have their best scoring seasons until 10 years later... were getting 33-35 PPG on teams that played 90-92 paces. So what reason is there to believe that prime Jordan wouldn't enjoy the same massive boost in his scoring like those two worse players did?

And Jordan was still winning scoring titles in the 90s, past his prime, when pace was at an all time low and big men ruled the league. Nowadays guys like Steph Curry and James Harden are in the top 5 scorers and the reigning scoring champion is a guy who's built like a twig and couldn't do a single rep of 185 lbs at the combine.

True story.

[Young X]

You didn't address any of my points. That's team scoring due to pace. Kobe and Iverson, both guys who were drafted in Jordan's era but didn't have their best scoring seasons until 10 years later... were getting 33-35 PPG on teams that played 90-92 paces. So what reason is there to believe that prime Jordan wouldn't enjoy the same massive boost in his scoring like those two worse players did?

And Jordan was still winning scoring titles in the 90s, past his prime, when pace was at an all time low and big men ruled the league. Nowadays guys like Steph Curry and James Harden are in the top 5 scorers and the reigning scoring champion is a guy who's built like a twig and couldn't do a single rep of 185 lbs at the combine.

True story.Also the Bulls in the 80's were some the slowest teams in the league usually hovering around a 95-96 pace which is the same pace that teams like OKC played last season. The EFG% was the same back then as it is now too.

[ballinhun8]

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]In the '95-'96 season, when Jordan was 32/33, he won his 8th scoring title. He was the only player under 6'9" in the top 5 scorers list (Shaq, Hakeem, D-Rob, Malone were the other 4). Jordan had a 3 PPG lead over the #2 guy (Hakeem).

That Summer, following Jordan's 4th title and 4th Finals MVP, 4 notable swingmen were drafted- Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson, Ray Allen, Steve Nash. Hell of a draft class, loaded with perimeter talent. Any guess when these guys, who were drafted in the mid 90s when Jordan was doing his thing, had their best scoring years?

NBA rule changes
2004-05

[3ball]

Jordan played in a league that allowed teams to score 110 plus points a night
The faster pace in the 80's was just a function of not shooting threes, and therefore not needing to run offense to shoot those 3-pointers... and the allocation of all-two-point shots that WAS taken, was a tougher allocation of shots - contested, mid-range two-point shots are considered the toughest, worst shots in today's game, yet those were the only shots taken back then.

Also, delving more into the pace - you need to understand something about basketball - good mid-range shooters can still hit mid-range shots at a good clip with guys draped all over, so teams don't need to run as much offense to get those shots... this was the situation in the 80's, where the 3-point shot wasn't used, and guys just jacked up a two-pointer the moment there was any daylight (you can't do this with three-pointers because players need to be more open to hit good percentages on threes)... for this reason (not having to run offense to get an open look) the pace was faster back then - but as i mentioned, these two-point shots were tougher, lower efficiency shots, so effective FG percentages were LOWER back then.

otoh - nowadays, the 22 three-point shots taken per game to keep the floor spread means you have to run offense to get those looks, which is why today's game is slower... But the shots obtained as a result of the 3-point shooting and subsequent floor-spacing are BETTER, MORE OPEN SHOTS, which is why effective FG percentages are higher today... If today's game were to remove the 3-point line and go back to all two-pointers, you would see the pace shoot right back up to where it was in the 80's, but the shots taken would be lower quality shots (contested mid-range), so effective FG percentages would go back down.

Of course, Jordan didn't win his championships in the 80's anyway... He won them in the 90's, after guys had started shooting 3's and the pace had slowed down to where it is today... throw in the more physical defense, and you'll see that the pace was slower during most of Jordan's championship years than it is now.

When you compare the end results - the 6 for 6 with 6 Finals MVP's, easily the most in the modern era - coupled WITH Jordan's status as the all-time leader in all the key stat categores such as Win Shares.. WS/48... PER... PPG... Usage+Ortg... it makes Jordan UNDERRATED historically.

no one else comes close to this level of end results (championships & Finals MVP's) and GOAT stats (all-time leader in Win Share, WS/48, PER, and PPG).

Yet we have dumb threads like this.

[DonDadda59]

Also the Bulls in the 80's were some the slowest teams in the league usually hovering around a 95-96 pace which is the same pace that teams like OKC played last season. The EFG% was the same back then as it is now too.

Actually, 7 of the 10 highest eFG% seasons ever are from post 2006. We just witnessed the record high season.

The only seasons not from post 2006 are the 2 seasons in the 90s when the NBA moved the 3 pt line and one lone season from the 80s:

Highest League eFG%, NBA History
1) 2013-14 .501
2) 2009-10 .501
3) 2008-09 .500
4) 1994-95 .500 (3 point line shortened)
5) 199-96 .499 (3 point line shortened)
6) 2010-11 .498
7) 2007-08 .497
8) 2012-13 .496
9) 2006-07 .496
10) 1984-85 .496

[poido123]

Anybody who watches old games knows what I'm talking about the defense back than was overrated watch any of the lakers celtics finals games so soft man to man single coverage


:sleeping

[Smook A.]

No he wouldn't. Jordan was known as a guy who could score in a numerous amount of ways. His mid-range jumper was almost perfect. He could drive in like Westbrook, with the speed, quickness, power, and vertical leap he possessed. His posts moves were some of the best for his position and his iconic fade away jumper was almost unstoppable. Prime Michael Jordan would average at least... I'd say around 35-40 ppg in today's era. Easily.

Take a look at Kevin Durant. The guy averged 32 ppg last season, and Michael Jordan is way more skilled than Durant is right now. Michael is a better shooter, and he's definitely way more athletic, so that means he could without a doubt average points more than KD.

[Im so nba'd out]

came in to see if OP was in red leaving happy

[TheMan]

OP forgot to mention that Jordan was just one more ploy the Iluminati unleashed on America's youth to enslave them to materialism. Thank you OP, you're destroying the Jordan myth piece by piece :applause:

[TheMan]

DonDadda and 3ball, no need to actually introduce logic to this thread...:no:

[Calabis]

I didn't say he would struggle

You said avg less points, which means somehow in a league where perimeter players lead the league in (in-the-paint) scoring, one of the most feared slashers of all time(and if not the best/second best all around offensive skilled guard of all time) would somehow have a more difficult time scoring...yet guys like Harden who are lesser in physical talent/skill level and IQ have zero issues with scoring......ok got it, makes a ton of sense.

[Calabis]

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]In the '95-'96 season, when Jordan was 32/33, he won his 8th scoring title. He was the only player under 6'9" in the top 5 scorers list (Shaq, Hakeem, D-Rob, Malone were the other 4). Jordan had a 3 PPG lead over the #2 guy (Hakeem).

That Summer, following Jordan's 4th title and 4th Finals MVP, 4 notable swingmen were drafted- Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson, Ray Allen, Steve Nash. Hell of a draft class, loaded with perimeter talent. Any guess when these guys, who were drafted in the mid 90s when Jordan was doing his thing, had their best scoring years?

NBA rule changes
2004-05

[sportjames23]

Ya'll really tryin to test the mods. :lol

[Angel Face]

He's 51 years old, obviously he won't score like before. :facepalm

[Round Mound]

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]In the '95-'96 season, when Jordan was 32/33, he won his 8th scoring title. He was the only player under 6'9" in the top 5 scorers list (Shaq, Hakeem, D-Rob, Malone were the other 4). Jordan had a 3 PPG lead over the #2 guy (Hakeem).

That Summer, following Jordan's 4th title and 4th Finals MVP, 4 notable swingmen were drafted- Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson, Ray Allen, Steve Nash. Hell of a draft class, loaded with perimeter talent. Any guess when these guys, who were drafted in the mid 90s when Jordan was doing his thing, had their best scoring years?

NBA rule changes
2004-05

[sekachu]

Jordan wasn't even good. Nike just made people think he was because of great marketing. I heard players had to ease up on him so he could score more. It was all a ruse. Plus he was bald.




You heard? Show me how the players ease up on MJ?

[3ball]

.
GIF's of 103 Chest-to-Chest Posters by MJ


Links:

Top 15 MJ Dunks Over Multiple Contesting Defenders (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40414797#p40414797)

Partial Collection of MJ Dunks Over All-Time Great Centers (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40382395#p40382395)

Random Posters 1 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10508118&postcount=237)

Random Posters 2 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10512996&postcount=255)

Random Posters 3 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10513143&postcount=256)

Random Posters 4 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10494322&postcount=198)

Random Posters 5 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10487292&postcount=48)

Random Posters 6 (for 6) (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10273035&postcount=86)

Old-Man Chest-to-Chest Posters (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10512074&postcount=27)

Various Two-Handed Posters Over Defenders (two-foot takeoffs) (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10441991&postcount=40)

Top 15 Hanging Jumpshots by MJ (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40750321#p40750321)


:confusedshrug:

[Dr.J4ever]

The intention of the recent rules changes was to encourage a different kind of offense that was run during the 80s/90s. The NBA marketers decided that isos and physical defenses were making the game look ugly.

So they decided to force teams to rely more on passing and shooting by changing the rules. Mission accomplished for the NBA marketers.

With today's more accurate shooters and PFs shooting from 3, the paint can be, at times, more wide open than it has ever been. If you put Jordan on a 3 ball shooting team like Atlanta, watch out! Jordan may score as much or even more than he has ever scored.

On a team that doesn't shoot as well, Jordan's scoring in the paint may decrease due to hybrid zones. Additionally, certain types of players like Adrian Dantley would score less in today's league. One thing Jordan has going for him is that he has always had a very good jumper and mid range game to counter any double teams or zone type defenses .

Bottom line, Jordan would be as good a scorer as he has ever been, or at the very least would pick up more assists and improve his teammates even more due to his dominant play.

[yungtyrekeevans]

2005-06 Scoring Leaders
1) Kobe Bryant (6'6 SG) 35.4 PPG [Drafted 1996]
2) Allen Iverson (5'11 PG/SG) 33 PPG [Drafted 1996]
3) LeBron James (6'8 SF) 31.4 PPG [Drafted 2003]
4) Gilbert Arenas (6'3 PG/SG) 29.6 PPG [Drafted 2001]
5) Dwyane Wade (6'4 SG) 27.2 PPG [Drafted 2003]
6) Paul Pierce (6'7 SF) 26.8 PPG [Drafted 1998]
7) Dirk Nowitzki (7' "PF") 26.6 PPG [Drafted 1998]
8) Carmelo Anthony (6'8 SF) 26.5 PPG [Drafted 2003]
9) Michael Redd (6'6 SG) 25.4 PPG [Drafted 2000]
10) Ray Allen (6'5 SG) 25.1 PPG [Drafted 1996]

Red= Career High PPG



bruh, you trippin?

all these players in their prime at the time mayne. course they gonna put up career highs bruh.

kobe 27 years old, iverson 30, gilbert 25, pierce 28, dirk 27, redd 26, allen 30.

aint that the years players be puttin up career highs?

[DonDadda59]

bruh, you trippin?

all these players in their prime at the time mayne. course they gonna put up career highs bruh.

kobe 27 years old, iverson 30, gilbert 25, pierce 28, dirk 27, redd 26, allen 30.

aint that the years players be puttin up career highs?

No. Absolutely not :oldlol:

Show me another season in NBA History where perimeter players, en masse, put up career high scoring numbers, some of them 10 seasons after they were drafted. I'll paypal you $50 bucks if you can.


The intention of the recent rules changes was to encourage a different kind of offense that was run during the 80s/90s. The NBA marketers decided that isos and physical defenses were making the game look ugly.

So they decided to force teams to rely more on passing and shooting by changing the rules. Mission accomplished for the NBA marketers.

1995-96 Team Averages
Pace: 91.8
Assists: 22.7


2005-06 Team Averages
Pace: 91.9
Assists: 20.6

The rules were instituted to make scoring for perimeter players easier. The people responsible for the changes have said as much, on record, several times. That's exactly what happened, immediately too. Keep lying to yourself all you want, but the facts speak for themself.

[uber]

The intention of the recent rules changes was to encourage a different kind of offense that was run during the 80s/90s. The NBA marketers decided that isos and physical defenses were making the game look ugly.


I think the Pistons at that time had a lot to do with the rule changes. There have been a lot of games when opponents couldn't score more than 70 points against them and that's certainly bad for ratings.




2005-06 Scoring Leaders
1) Kobe Bryant (6'6 SG) 35.4 PPG [Drafted 1996]
2) Allen Iverson (5'11 PG/SG) 33 PPG [Drafted 1996]
3) LeBron James (6'8 SF) 31.4 PPG [Drafted 2003]
4) Gilbert Arenas (6'3 PG/SG) 29.6 PPG [Drafted 2001]
5) Dwyane Wade (6'4 SG) 27.2 PPG [Drafted 2003]
6) Paul Pierce (6'7 SF) 26.8 PPG [Drafted 1998]
7) Dirk Nowitzki (7' "PF") 26.6 PPG [Drafted 1998]
8) Carmelo Anthony (6'8 SF) 26.5 PPG [Drafted 2003]
9) Michael Redd (6'6 SG) 25.4 PPG [Drafted 2000]
10) Ray Allen (6'5 SG) 25.1 PPG [Drafted 1996]

Red= Career High PPG

beautiful list :applause:

It would be nice to see how much they improved because of the rule changes.

[poido123]

Let's be honest watching old footage from the 80s you can see the defense was just simple man to man most of the time lots of transition to. It wasn't nearly as physical as old players like to remember not every team had players who were rough like the pistons. You had the entire dream team crying like babies when they thought isiah Thomas was going to join.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tvz0maaJ6PA


Anyone suspect this is JT123?

Both have Kobe being carried avatars, both rag on bulls :sleeping

[Blue&Orange]

Jordan played in a league that allowed teams to score 110 plus points a night
And one could say that faster pace means easier looks for everyone, EVERYONE, hence resulting in less chances for the star player, because the crappy players instead of passing the ball to the stars players in half court, would be putting up layups after layups.


Look at D'antoni teams, i don't remember star player getting more 8-9ppg i remember every role\bench player getting career highs. There was Amare, but that wasn't due to fast pace, that was due to Knicks having only one play that season, Amare isolation, serioulsy it was 4 players behind 3pt line and Stat isolated all the time, some Knick player would get by his man and make a layup or a dunk and D'Antoni would bash him in the game interview whinning how he was ruining Amare spacing.

[jzek]

Agree. He'd only average about 25 PPG...





























































...in the first half!

[miles berg]

Jordan would put up 37-40 ppg in this trash league of today.

[Papaya Petee]

take a look at Kevin Durant. The guy averged 32 ppg last season, and Michael Jordan is way more skilled than Durant is right now. Michael is a better shooter, and he's definitely way more athletic, so that means he could without a doubt average points more than KD.
Is nobody going to call him out on this? MJ a better shooter than Durant??? In what ****ing universe?

[poido123]

Is nobody going to call him out on this? MJ a better shooter than Durant??? In what ****ing universe?



Better midrange shooter, better 3 pt shooter no.

[navy]

Better midrange shooter, better 3 pt shooter no.
Better midrange shooter based on what exactly?

[navy]

Is nobody going to call him out on this? MJ a better shooter than Durant??? In what ****ing universe?
This thread was so ridiculous, nobody was going to bother reading the replies in depth.

[poido123]

Better midrange shooter based on what exactly?


Did you watch Jordan games? Or did you get your dose of YouTube clips to watch Jordan...

[Real14]

Threads like this irks me. If prime Jordan was playing today he would score at least 38 ppg. These days superstars and made up superstars would go to line if somebody touches them. In Jordan's prime years you had to do more than just touch him to send him to the line, you would have to hit him and really foul him. Jordan would have it REAL easy in today's league. Today's league is soft.

[navy]

Did you watch Jordan games? Or did you get your dose of YouTube clips to watch Jordan...

So you're not going to post proof?


Logically speaking do you think Jordan youtube mixes ever showed him MISS? :oldlol:

[OldSchoolBBall]

Better midrange shooter based on what exactly?

Based on the fact that he shot 51% from midrange in his prime and KD shoots about 45%? http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=317950

[navy]

Based on the fact that he shot 51% from midrange in his prime and KD shoots about 45%? http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=317950
:applause:

All I needed.

[poido123]

Based on the fact that he shot 51% from midrange in his prime and KD shoots about 45%? http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=317950


Navy straight up ethered :roll: