Kevin Durant: "Allen Iverson is pound for pound the greatest player ever"

[JohnMax]

http://instagram.com/p/s9OKU-zSso
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWYSAS9XUfo

Durant: Chuck too real. He changed the way we play ball. He changed the culture of ball. He is pound for pound the best. He paved the way. I can go on and on. But he's a legend and I'm just walking the path he created.

http://photos-c.ak.instagram.com/hphotos-ak-xfa1/10661057_1476718019282138_2044578241_n.jpg

[JohnFreeman]

Stay copying LeBron

[sportjames23]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWYSAS9XUfo


:facepalm

[K Xerxes]

Muggsy Bogues has a strong argument :lol

[AirFederer]

He paved the way for low efficency and chucking...and skipping practice...

I`ll give him that he played (mostly) hard, and had goat level quickness.

But imho he had problems fitting in on a team, in more than one way.

So we gonna see Durant shoot in the low 40ies now? :confusedshrug:

[Reggie43]

"Pound for pound the most talented ever" is a better argument.

[Dresta]

If basketball was a game of pick-up 1v1 then maybe.

[kurple]

finally iverson getting some love

i get that the league turned on him, but the fans?

the advanced stats generation :facepalm

[KrizMiz]

A.I. you da real MVP

[sportjames23]

A.I. you da real MVP


:roll: :roll: :roll:

:cheers:

[no pun intended]

Stay copying LeBron
lol this. LeBron said the exact same words. wtf.

[bizil]

There has never been a player that small as dominant scoring the rock. AI was also a great passer, a freak athlete, and had epic handles. He brought the new school And 1 style swag and game of the late 90's to early 2000 to the NBA. It's kind of the argument in boxing. How often was a heavyweight considered the best pound for pound boxer? It was always the smaller boxers because usually on a technical level they were as good as anybody. But they weren't BIG ENOUGH to beat the best heavyweights. It was a way of acknowledging the smaller boxers WHILE STILL giving the heavyweights props as best boxers because they were the biggest and baddest.

So in the case of guys like AI, Isiah, Tiny, or CP3, they are as offensively skilled as any players ever. But u have bigger perimeter players like MJ, Kobe, Bron, Bird, Magic, Big O, Wade, etc. that are just as skilled, bigger, and more versatile. So u would take the great bigger perimeter players over the small 6'0 guys like AI, Isiah, Tiny, and CP3. It's not about the skill ITS about the size and versatility. Thus is the reason Durant said "Pound for Pound".

But with that said, u have to be a GREAT IMMORTAL KIND OF PERIMETER PLAYER with great all around ability to be over guys like AI and Isiah. AI and Isiah are SO GREAT they are better than 95% of perimeter players to ever play. It's just that small percentage of dominant all around bigger perimeter players in that 6'5 and up range that u would take. And of course with PF's and C's, they are in their own category in terms of what u look for.

[Real14]

Kevin Durant telling the truth right here.

[poido123]

Loved Iverson in the day.

Characters like him are sorely missed. In fact, I just miss 90s ball :(

[uber]

He paved the way for low efficency and chucking...and skipping practice...


Come on man .. how the hell was he supposed to make his teammates better by practicing?

[Marchesk]

39.8 FG% when he averaged his best 31.4 ppg. And Kobe gets called out for chucking.

Let's compare to Tiny's best: 34 ppg on 48.8%

Tiny also had 11.4 apg that season.

[bizil]

39.8 FG% when he averaged his best 31.4 ppg. And Kobe gets called out for chucking.

Let's compare to Tiny's best: 34 ppg on 48.8%

Tiny also had 11.4 apg that season.

Tiny for sure has a case for best pound for pound too. I think u could argue Tiny, AI, Isiah, or CP3. And at their peak, KJ and Tim Hardaway are certainly not far behind either. And from an offensive technical level (shooting, passing, handles), Mark Price was the best small guard. When I think small guards, I think guards 6'1 and under.

[moe94]

39.8 FG% when he averaged his best 31.4 ppg. And Kobe gets called out for chucking.

Let's compare to Tiny's best: 34 ppg on 48.8%

Tiny also had 11.4 apg that season.

He averaged 33 PPG on 45% (kobe level) shooting at 30 years old after the rule change

fvck are you talking about again? :facepalm

[Marchesk]

He averaged 33 PPG on 45% (kobe level) shooting at 30 years old after the rule change

fvck are you talking about again? :facepalm

You're right, I missed that. He wasn't the leading scorer that season.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Disagree but everybody has an opinion.



39.8 FG% when he averaged his best 31.4 ppg. And Kobe gets called out for chucking.

Let's compare to Tiny's best: 34 ppg on 48.8%

Tiny also had 11.4 apg that season.

Nate the skate was the whole team that year, a losing team where the coach let him do everything, playing 46 MPG, ball in his hands the vast majority of the time, taking the most shots by FAR... Even he, later on, said the same thing and that he didn't like it.

Tiny was like AI before AI... Small basketball size, extremely quick, great handles, great slashers, both liked to hold on to the ball a lot, chucked shots. Nate was the better shooter (at least before serious injuries) and better/more willing passer, Iverson was overall more athletic and tougher, with more of a gunner's mentality throughout his career.

[Reggie43]

He averaged 33 PPG on 45% (kobe level) shooting at 30 years old after the rule change

fvck are you talking about again? :facepalm

was actually about to post this :D

[moe94]

You're right, I missed that. He wasn't the leading scorer that season.
He would for any other season in the last 20+ years if not for Kobe going flat out beast mode.

Leave AI alone! :(

Prime AI in this league would take the most massive dump. :applause:

[bizil]

Disagree but everybody has an opinion.




Nate the skate was the whole team that year, a losing team where the coach let him do everything, playing 46 MPG, ball in his hands the vast majority of the time, taking the most shots by FAR... Even he, later on, said the same thing and that he didn't like it.

Tiny was like AI before AI... Small basketball size, extremely quick, great handles, great slashers, both liked to hold on to the ball a lot, chucked shots. Nate was the better shooter (at least before serious injuries) and better/more willing passer, Iverson was overall more athletic and tougher, with more of a gunner's mentality throughout his career.


Great points! I think Tiny was actually a PG first who amped up the scoring depending on what the team needed. He was like Big O and Frazier before him in that he was a great passer who was also a great scorer. I think AI was an SG who could easily swing to PG. AI redefined the game when Larry Brown moved him to SG. He knew AI was score first so he let AI do that and started another PG or big combo guard on the floor with him. AI was so skilled that he would lead the team in assists still BUT it was through the prism of being a great scorer who was also a great passer. So two different mentalities for two icons who had similar size and skillsets.

[DCL]

it's like going to the playground and playing full court and the smallest dude on the other team is scoring all their points and keeping them in the game. sometimes they even beat you cuz nobody can stop him.

AI was like that, except he was like that in the NBA.

[fourkicks44]

Stay copying LeBron

Durant actually got into college and attended. Just like AI

[Real14]

Durant actually got into college and attended. Just like AI
http://a.espncdn.com/media/motion/2012/0507/dm_120507_nba_iverson_practice_anniversary.jpg

[fourkicks44]

http://a.espncdn.com/media/motion/2012/0507/dm_120507_nba_iverson_practice_anniversary.jpg

At the age Iverson was sitting in a cell, Lebron, at the same age was taking dollars from everybody.

[Real14]

At the age Iverson was sitting in a cell, Lebron, at the same age was taking dollars from everybody.
I definitely remember that. Iverson was in jail and had to go through a phucked up case while Lebron was getting free throwback jerseys and shit. Lebron was pampered since day 1.

[Hoopz2332]

Stay copying LeBron


:oldlol:

[pegasus]

True. Iverson is a legend.

[ralph_i_el]

The thing that separates AI from the quick scoring guards of today is his off-ball play.

The dude was legit Ray Allen/Rip Hamilton level coming off screens. Nobody could follow Iverson around screens he was too quick and had too much endurance.

The dude was just a joy to watch run around. For someone who skipped practices and binged on fast food, he was in PHENOMENAL shape and gave 110% effort in games. Westbrook reminds me of AI in that he makes something out of nothing just purely based off hustle and balls.

[Lebron23]

I agree with Durant.

[jayfan]

Isiah > AI




.

[Optimus Prime]

It was amazing what AI could accomplish with his smaller size and lack of team support. I still don't care for him much, but I can appreciate what he was able to do given the odds.

[kennethgriffin]

heres the problem


pound for pound means "best little man" basically



well iverson is like top 35-40 all time


isiah thomas is top 20 all time


zeke is a legit 3 time champ. 2 time finals mvp ( 1988 refs rigged game 6 at the end. isiah was robbed of the most inspirational finals game ever. one leg. dropped like 20+ in the third q. refs gave kareem a bs call and 2 free throws to win the game )



hes 6-1, 180 pounds. and by nba standards. you know he's more around 5-11


isiah thomas is pound for pound the GOAT... aka .. best little man


stockton should be over AI aswell


nate archibald too

[Smoke117]

The thing that separates AI from the quick scoring guards of today is his off-ball play.

The dude was legit Ray Allen/Rip Hamilton level coming off screens. Nobody could follow Iverson around screens he was too quick and had too much endurance.

The dude was just a joy to watch run around. For someone who skipped practices and binged on fast food, he was in PHENOMENAL shape and gave 110% effort in games. Westbrook reminds me of AI in that he makes something out of nothing just purely based off hustle and balls.

:wtf: The idea after coming off the screen is to hit the shot...Iverson does not even come close to being the shooter Allen/Hamilton were.

[imdaman99]

Was he like 160lbs? :lol Yes, pound for pound he da bess

[Myth]

This is just another way of saying "He is really good for a small guy."

[kennethgriffin]

This is just another way of saying "He is really good for a small guy."

but he's not even close to being the best small guy

how quickly people forget "tha Canswer" jokes


iverson is taking a solid adrien dantley path to greatness. time heals all wounds i guess

[pauk]

At scoring only perhaps, but even then i would nominate Tiny Archibald aswell at his peak at least, in 73' he averaged 34 ppg on 49% FG (while averaging 11.4 APG!).

[Trollsmasher]

Durant probably weighs the same as Iverson:lol

[Natureland]

:wtf: The idea after coming off the screen is to hit the shot...Iverson does not even come close to being the shooter Allen/Hamilton were.
Sounds like ralph was referring more to AI's ability to do it and how frequent he would, which doesn't necessarily imply he's as efficient as Allen or Hamilton (does basketball-reference even list %'s for guys coming off screens?).

I know when I rewatched the '01 Finals with my friend over the summer I was almost surprised how much scoring he was generating coming off screens.

[Pointguard]

If AI was officiated like other players, his shooting percentage would be about 8 or 9 points higher in his peak years. Even Shaq said he can't believe the pounding AI takes. And AI didn't complain. Everything would be different if he was called like say Durant. Teams would have been fouling out left and right. There is not another player that blocked out the non-calls and and just kept getting back up, time after time, with even more resolution.

Its something that if you didnt see you would have a real hard time understanding how AI's FG%, and playoff game strategies were affected by refs. He was reffed differently but nothing broke his spirit. He just kept coming back at you.

[jlip]

This is just another way of saying "He is really good for a small guy."

This

[triangleoffense]

Pound for pound greatest offensively but was honestly a liability at times on defense... a contrast would be Gary Payton, who I'm surprised no one mentioned who was a great 2-way player.. shame you don't see a lot of the same these days.

[applejoe]

KD is wrong

AI at age 28
Weight 165
Pts 27
Ast 5.7
Reb 4.1
PER 20.9

per lbs.
Pts 0.1636363636
Ast 0.03454545455
Reb 0.02484848485
PER 0.1266666667

Jordan at age 28
Weight 195
Pts 32.3
Ast 6
Reb 6.3
PER 29.8

per lbs.
Pts 0.1656410256
Ast 0.03076923077
Reb 0.03230769231
PER 0.1528205128

Jordan is better per pound by all measures except assists

[ralph_i_el]

:wtf: The idea after coming off the screen is to hit the shot...Iverson does not even come close to being the shooter Allen/Hamilton were.

I just meant running off screens to get separation. AI would run off screens and have his man stumbling, then put a move on him. Allen and Hamilton were obviously better running off screens for the catch and shoot.

I meant that guys like Allen and Hamilton work the off ball screens really well, were in great shape, and were nimble/agile enough to take paths that put their defender off balance. AI did all of those things to a masterful level.

[dubeta]

KD is wrong

AI at age 28
Weight 165
Pts 27
Ast 5.7
Reb 4.1
PER 20.9

per lbs.
Pts 0.1636363636
Ast 0.03454545455
Reb 0.02484848485
PER 0.1266666667

Jordan at age 28
Weight 195
Pts 32.3
Ast 6
Reb 6.3
PER 29.8

per lbs.
Pts 0.1656410256
Ast 0.03076923077
Reb 0.03230769231
PER 0.1528205128

Jordan is better per pound by all measures except assists

Any proof for MJ's 195 lb? :oldlol:

[ralph_i_el]

KD is wrong

AI at age 28
Weight 165
Pts 27
Ast 5.7
Reb 4.1
PER 20.9

per lbs.
Pts 0.1636363636
Ast 0.03454545455
Reb 0.02484848485
PER 0.1266666667

Jordan at age 28
Weight 195
Pts 32.3
Ast 6
Reb 6.3
PER 29.8

per lbs.
Pts 0.1656410256
Ast 0.03076923077
Reb 0.03230769231
PER 0.1528205128

Jordan is better per pound by all measures except assists

Jordan might have been under 200 at UNC but:confusedshrug:

[Shih508]

KD is wrong

AI at age 28
Weight 165
Pts 27
Ast 5.7
Reb 4.1
PER 20.9

per lbs.
Pts 0.1636363636
Ast 0.03454545455
Reb 0.02484848485
PER 0.1266666667

Jordan at age 28
Weight 195
Pts 32.3
Ast 6
Reb 6.3
PER 29.8

per lbs.
Pts 0.1656410256
Ast 0.03076923077
Reb 0.03230769231
PER 0.1528205128

Jordan is better per pound by all measures except assists

How about at age 30? AI would make MJ looks like nobody with all those stats

[sportjames23]

Any proof for MJ's 195 lb? :oldlol:


Until his return from his first retirement, MJ was always officially listed from between 195 to 198lbs. Look it up.

Edit: Here you go. Bulls line-up from the 1989-1990 season with weights listed:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1990.html

[Reggie43]

If AI was officiated like other players, his shooting percentage would be about 8 or 9 points higher in his peak years. Even Shaq said he can't believe the pounding AI takes. And AI didn't complain. Everything would be different if he was called like say Durant. Teams would have been fouling out left and right. There is not another player that blocked out the non-calls and and just kept getting back up, time after time, with even more resolution.

Its something that if you didnt see you would have a real hard time understanding how AI's FG%, and playoff game strategies were affected by refs. He was reffed differently but nothing broke his spirit. He just kept coming back at you.

I loved Iverson and no offense to you but I think he was officiated just right back then and actually got a ton of calls due to his style of play and the fact that he was small and was easilly affected by any type of contact ( some of which he did sell to draw some fouls) I remember he was always complaining to the refs too.

Maybe what you meant was Iverson playing in todays rules :confusedshrug:

[Orlando Magic]

lb for lb.. give me Shaq... the things he was able to do at the insane amount of weight that he carried was un ****ing real.

[Droid101]

Uh, this has already been done. Chris Paul is the best pound-for-pound player in history, followed by Michael Jordan.

http://hardwoodparoxysm.com.s173533.gridserver.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/poundforpound1.jpg

[tgan3]

KD is wrong

AI at age 28
Weight 165
Pts 27
Ast 5.7
Reb 4.1
PER 20.9

per lbs.
Pts 0.1636363636
Ast 0.03454545455
Reb 0.02484848485
PER 0.1266666667

Jordan at age 28
Weight 195
Pts 32.3
Ast 6
Reb 6.3
PER 29.8

per lbs.
Pts 0.1656410256
Ast 0.03076923077
Reb 0.03230769231
PER 0.1528205128

Jordan is better per pound by all measures except assists

CP3 is pound for pound the best player.
PER 30
Weight: 189lbs

per lbs
PER: 0.1587

[bdreason]

Isiah Thomas says hi.

[L.A. Jazz]

I dont care for this pound for pound nonsense.

[Paul George 24]

Stay copying LeBron

u mean he learn how to flops from from lebron:bowdown:

[3ball]

I agree with Durant... I've always said that pound for pound, AI's the most talented player ever.. and actually, i don't think it's particularly close.

the guy never practiced... always late or a no-show... never worked on his game... never lifted - didn't know what a weight was.... smoked bud and did whatever he wanted... showed up late... i mean, he must have been a supreme physical specimen that could afford to slack off, amirite??...

you'd think he was 7'1" and 300 pounds with 5% body fat.... but no.... quite the opposite.... weighed 165 and took it to Shaq and Kobe no problem like a boss... there were several times in his career where he was more dominant than Kobe (i.e. 2001 Playoffs), yet he's 6'0" and 165...

i always wonder if there are people that achieve wild success without working hard... you almost never see it... but AI was that guy... and he was 6'0" and 165.

btw, i never understood why bballref listed Jordan at 195 pounds... that was his college weight.

MJ says himself that he cut 10 pounds to get down to 215 during the 1997 season, because the 225 that he was at during the 1996 season was too heavy.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Until his return from his first retirement, MJ was always officially listed from between 195 to 198lbs. Look it up.

Edit: Here you go. Bulls line-up from the 1989-1990 season with weights listed:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1990.html

1990: 195
1991: 200
1992: 205
1993: 210

Incremental growth after he began weight lifting with Tim Grover starting in summer of 1990.

1996: 218 (Knee Tendinitis)
1997: 210 )Weight Loss)
2002: 225 (SF)

[3ball]

1990: 195
1991: 200
1992: 205
1993: 210

Incremental growth after he began weight lifting with Tim Grover starting in summer of 1990.

1996: 218 (Knee Tendinitis)
1997: 210 )Weight Loss)
2002: 225 (SF)

okay that makes sense... bballref has him at his early years weight, pre-1992ish..

[JohnFreeman]

[QUOTE]Pound-for-pound, probably the greatest player who ever played,

[3ball]

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/29/lebron-says-iverson-pound-for-pound-probably-the-greatest-ever/
i agree with James 100%... i don't know if i'd use the term "player" as much as i'd use the term "talent", but splitting hairs here.

[kennethgriffin]

lol @ jordan fans trying to get their guy into a little guy discussion

theyre so friggin insecure


let the midgets battle it out. don't you have enough as it is?

jesus christ


isiah thomas is the best little man ( aka pound for pound )

[Paul George 24]

Any proof for MJ's 195 lb? :oldlol:
u got owned again

[sportjames23]

lol @ jordan fans trying to get their guy into a little guy discussion

theyre so friggin insecure


let the midgets battle it out. don't you have enough as it is?

jesus christ


isiah thomas is the best little man ( aka pound for pound )




U mad Kobe ain't being mentioned?

[Hoopz2332]

Mid 90s to almost mid 2000's, Iverson was like GOD to bball players. Noone was trying to be like Mike during that time span. So it makes sense that players growing up around that time feel that way about Iverson.

[navy]

Holly Shit I agree with Kenneth on this one. Yall nikkas are insecure as fvck.


Isiah Thomas > CP3 > Iverson as well

[pauk]

Uh, this has already been done. Chris Paul is the best pound-for-pound player in history, followed by Michael Jordan.

http://hardwoodparoxysm.com.s173533.gridserver.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/poundforpound1.jpg

Where is Kobe?

[Hoopz2332]

Where is Kobe?

:lol

[pudman13]

Calvin Murphy belongs in the discussion. And Gail Goodrich.

[Dragic4Life]

Where is Kobe?
:applause:

[ImKobe]

Where is Kobe?

MJ 195 :kobe: :facepalm

And this shit is regular season, who gives a fukk about a regular season.

And if MJ is 195, Kobe's 180


http://cdn.niketalk.com/5/52/52a46296_kobewat2.gif

And that list is bogus, because those dudes did not play their whole careers at a certain weight number, especially Lebron. Kobe played at like 180 as a rook and has been 195-200 for his career. Dropped like 20 pounds in 2013 summer and had one of his better statistical seasons...

You wanna tell me MJ only got 20 pounds on CP0 :facepalm

[KirbyPls]

1990: 195
1991: 200
1992: 205
1993: 210

Exponential growth after he began juicing with Tim Grover starting in summer of 1990.

1996: 218 (Knee Tendinitis)
1997: 210 )Weight Loss)
2002: 225 (SF)

Dat LeRoid diet doe. :biggums:

[oarabbus]

Muggsy Bogues is the greatest player pound for pound, inch for inch

[KirbyPls]

Muggsy Bogues is the greatest player pound for pound, inch for inch

:biggums:

[Pointguard]

I loved Iverson and no offense to you but I think he was officiated just right back then and actually got a ton of calls due to his style of play and the fact that he was small and was easilly affected by any type of contact ( some of which he did sell to draw some fouls) I remember he was always complaining to the refs too.

Maybe what you meant was Iverson playing in todays rules :confusedshrug:
When a poster says they loved a player that had more glitz, more shine, scoring titles, more attention than a rival less heralded contemporary at the position his own sceen-name its a usually a lie. I think you are a hater.

Iverson had the most stop/go, speed up/slow down, change of direction, quick get you off balance game the league has ever seen. Took 28 shots per game and was nowhere near the top in FTA. Paul Pierce was way ahead of him. AI didn't even make 10 per game that year. Only Shaq drew more attention. AI was also doubled after he put the ball down, which leads to more fouls. Dirk who played far less minutes, shot ten less times, was almost strictly a jump shooter, that didn't dribble much at that time had 7 FTA a game.

Donaghy writes:
"Allen Iverson provides a good example of a player who generated strong reaction, both positive and negative, within the corps of NBA referees. For instance, veteran referee Steve Javie hated Allen Iverson and was loathe [sic] to give him a favorable call. If Javie was on the court when Iverson was playing, I would always bet on the other team to win or at least cover the spread. No matter how many times Iverson hit the floor, he rarely saw the foul line." We all know that the commissioner hated Iverson. And many refs had to follow how the commissioner told them to call games and seemingly, helped end his career prematurely. Of course you are going to say the commissioner was indifferent to him.

But of course you saw something else.

[Reggie43]

When a poster says they loved a player that had more glitz, more shine, scoring titles, more attention than a rival less heralded contemporary at the position his own sceen-name its a usually a lie. I think you are a hater.

Iverson had the most stop/go, speed up/slow down, change of direction, quick get you off balance game the league has ever seen. Took 28 shots per game and was nowhere near the top in FTA. Paul Pierce was way ahead of him. AI didn't even make 10 per game that year. Only Shaq drew more attention. AI was also doubled after he put the ball down, which leads to more fouls. Dirk who played far less minutes, shot ten less times, was almost strictly a jump shooter, that didn't dribble much at that time had 7 FTA a game.

Donaghy writes:
"Allen Iverson provides a good example of a player who generated strong reaction, both positive and negative, within the corps of NBA referees. For instance, veteran referee Steve Javie hated Allen Iverson and was loathe [sic] to give him a favorable call. If Javie was on the court when Iverson was playing, I would always bet on the other team to win or at least cover the spread. No matter how many times Iverson hit the floor, he rarely saw the foul line." We all know that the commissioner hated Iverson. And many refs had to follow how the commissioner told them to call games and seemingly, helped end his career prematurely. Of course you are going to say the commissioner was indifferent to him.

But of course you saw something else.


Pointing out the faults of a player you like is being a hater now? The only times I rooted against Iverson was obviously when he plays the Pacers. In fact one of my fave nba games ever was when he lead the East to a victory coming from a huge deficit against the West in the Allstar game.

In your post that I quoted you told that Iverson took a pounding "And AI didn't complain" you and I and the whole board knows that was a lie.

How many free throw attempts does Iverson really need when he was always one of the league leaders in free throws attempted even as a guard. He placed 2nd in attempts three times and even led the league in 2005-06. He got to the line more times in his career than Jordan himself.

Some refs probably hated Iverson's incessant complaining but are you really blaming them plus the commissioner for the reasons that Iverson was out of the league? He was one of the NBA's most popular players that generated huge revenues for the league so why would the Commissioner have an agenda against him?

[Hotlantadude81]

I'm glad he is gone. A 40% shooter that needed a team full of role players to succeed.

[Pointguard]

Pointing out the faults of a player you like is being a hater now? The only times I rooted against Iverson was obviously when he plays the Pacers. In fact one of my fave nba games ever was when he lead the East to a victory coming from a huge deficit against the West in the Allstar game.

In your post that I quoted you told that Iverson took a pounding "And AI didn't complain" you and I and the whole board knows that was a lie.

I said I think you are a hater. AI was getting slammed and not getting calls. He was one that deserved to complain. He did complain but not more than your namesake Reggie Miller did and Reggie rarely drived.


How many free throw attempts does Iverson really need when he was always one of the league leaders in free throws attempted even as a guard. He placed 2nd in attempts three times and even led the league in 2005-06. He got to the line more times in his career than Jordan himself.

You are going by total FTA which AI is punished because he rarely misses games. He was never first in FTA per game and was only tied for second once in '05. And it was never a question of how many does he need, its about how many weren't called. Iverson would get bumped and it affected his shot most of the time.


Some refs probably hated Iverson's incessant complaining but are you really blaming them plus the commissioner for the reasons that Iverson was out of the league? He was one of the NBA's most popular players that generated huge revenues for the league so why would the Commissioner have an agenda against him?

Iverson was super popular, was still a very good player and there were plenty of teams that could have used both. You can play like you don't know.

Guy, most of the time when somebody doesn't like you, it isn't about money. Iverson was hip hop. He made tats popular. He interviewed different. He brought a completely new and different in-crowd to the sport. Even after his first year there were talks that they would never let Duncan go to Philly. The commissioner was censoring Iverson and Kobe's lyrics. You think he liked doing that?

[Budadiiii]

:roll:

This clown is at it again and now Iverson is the beneficiary to his knob-slopping.

If you are an overrated PG, "Pointguard" WILL suck you off. FOR FREE.

[Pointguard]

:roll:

This clown is at it again and now Iverson is the beneficiary to his knob-slopping.

If you are an overrated PG, "Pointguard" WILL suck you off. FOR FREE.
:cry: :cry: :cry:
I'm not a hater. You live under a rug and hate everybody that doesn't hate like you do. You hate people you have no clue about because that's your energy level. It won't get better for you until you see the good in others. There will always be more medication, more darkness, more pitiful drivel from you. Its the way you roll.

[Reggie43]

I said I think you are a hater. AI was getting slammed and not getting calls. He was one that deserved to complain. He did complain but not more than your namesake Reggie Miller did and Reggie rarely drived.


First you say Ai didn't complain, now you say he did complain but not as much as Miller? Make up your mind, was he a complainer or not?



You are going by total FTA which AI is punished because he rarely misses games. He was never first in FTA per game and was only tied for second once in '05. And it was never a question of how many does he need, its about how many weren't called. Iverson would get bumped and it affected his shot most of the time.


AI led the league in free throw attempts (829) and free throws per game (11.5) in 2005-06 all this while missing ten games and as I have said he finished second 3 times. No need to lie man, it is very easy to lookup.



Iverson was super popular, was still a very good player and there were plenty of teams that could have used both. You can play like you don't know.

Guy, most of the time when somebody doesn't like you, it isn't about money. Iverson was hip hop. He made tats popular. He interviewed different. He brought a completely new and different in-crowd to the sport. Even after his first year there were talks that they would never let Duncan go to Philly. The commissioner was censoring Iverson and Kobe's lyrics. You think he liked doing that?

Agreed with the bolded.

The truth is I really liked Iverson as a player because of his heart, attitude and skill plus goat level athletic ability. He was a non conformist that played and acted the way he wanted which made him one of the most popular players ever.

[ralph_i_el]

I'm glad he is gone. A 40% shooter that needed a team full of role players to succeed.

Which players don't need a team full of role players to succeed ?

jesus the ignorance today :facepalm

[Pointguard]

First you say Ai didn't complain, now you say he did complain but not as much as Miller? Make up your mind, was he a complainer or not?

Its not complaining if you are the most beat up guy in the sport and aren't acknowledged for it. He always had people swiping at him, grabbing him and off balance. Even other refs acknowledged it.



AI led the league in free throw attempts (829) and free throws per game (11.5) in 2005-06 all this while missing ten games and as I have said he finished second 3 times. No need to lie man, it is very easy to lookup.

in '03 AI was second in total attempts wasn't second in FTA per game. At the very least Tmac was ahead him. In '05 Shaq was ahead of him in FTA per game when Amare was in first place. On Iverson's basketball reference page they didn't acknowledge FTA per game lead in '06 but you are right on that one.

[ILLsmak]

finally iverson getting some love

i get that the league turned on him, but the fans?

the advanced stats generation :facepalm

they were showing some of his games on NBATV. I was watching him drop 50 as a rookie... he was obviously a chucker then, but I don't think once he got some experience under his belt he was "a chucker."

Dudes don't understand how ridiculously hard it is to play 46-47 minutes in the ****ing playoffs... as a guard who is your team's only scorer. Watching the 2001 Sixers, it was like a blooper reel when Iverson didn't get a touch on offense. Not to mention how many times he spoon fed someone and they blew it.

People who didn't see it cannot comprehend how bad that team was on offense. People compare Bron's Cleveland team. No contest. AI didn't have one knock down shooter.


Isiah Thomas says hi.

Edit: Thomas can't play minutes like AI. He also had a much better team.

-Smak

[colts19]

I would take I. Thomas all day every day.

[Mass Debator]

AI > Thomas

Isiah is the better leader though.

[Reggie43]

Its not complaining if you are the most beat up guy in the sport and aren't acknowledged for it. He always had people swiping at him, grabbing him and off balance. Even other refs acknowledged it.


in '03 AI was second in total attempts wasn't second in FTA per game. At the very least Tmac was ahead him. In '05 Shaq was ahead of him in FTA per game when Amare was in first place. On Iverson's basketball reference page they didn't acknowledge FTA per game lead in '06 but you are right on that one.

You just lied again. Iverson and Shaq were listed as tied in '05 with 10.5 ft's per game. This number was rounded off and upon further computation Iverson was actually leading with 10.48 ft's per game to Shaq's 10.47. Iverson also lead in total fta's in '05 with 786 to Shaq's 765

[Pointguard]

You just lied again. Iverson and Shaq were listed as tied in '05 with 10.5 ft's per game. This number was rounded off and upon further computation Iverson was actually leading with 10.48 ft's per game to Shaq's 10.47. Iverson also lead in total fta's in '05 with 786 to Shaq's 765

:lol really! I did a quick overview calculation - We're talking tiny minutia which has no impact on the bigger argument so I won't dig deeper. So does this make you a liar for your '03 statement??? I take it that you overlooked something and you did. No Big deal. You are arguing with me that the only guy in the league that could throw MJ (probably the most balanced, coordinated, athletic, fundamentally sound backcourt players ever) off balance twice in two seconds could somehow take 28 shots per game and not get more than 10 FTA per game? This is with Shaq, giving AI major cudos for taking it year after year in a humble way. And you are still arguing that he was called approapiately.

After I showed you a quote from a another ref talking about how Iverson saw the hardwood without compensation you continued on your path, You didn't even know the commisioner's disdain for Iverson. Heck, you didn't even know the reasons. You could just say my bad, or we can continue.

[Reggie43]

:lol really! I did a quick overview calculation - We're talking tiny minutia which has no impact on the bigger argument so I won't dig deeper. So does this make you a liar for your '03 statement??? I take it that you overlooked something and you did. No Big deal.

If you just bothered to read carefully, I never lied in any of my statements while you have lied numerous times just to prove a point.

Iverson took a pounding "And AI didn't complain."
"He was never first in FTA per game"
"In '05 Shaq was ahead of him in FTA per game"


You are arguing with me that the only guy in the league that could throw MJ (probably the most balanced, coordinated, athletic, fundamentally sound backcourt players ever) off balance twice in two seconds could somehow take 28 shots per game and not get more than 10 FTA per game? This is with Shaq, giving AI major cudos for taking it year after year in a humble way. And you are still arguing that he was called approapiately.


How did taking more shots automatically equate to more freethrows? Iverson
was taking mostly jumpers at that time so taking 27.8 fga to get 9.8 fta's is not that big a travesty you make it out to be. For comparison, Kobe got 10.2 fta's for his 27.2 attempts which is not far off while the greatest slasher of all time (Jordan) just got two more fta's than Iverson shooting the same number of shots. Sad part is that you nitpicked a single season for Iverson and if we based on career averages he was actually getting 8.9 fta's to his 21.8 fga's which was more than Kobe's 7.6 in 19.6 and Jordan's 8.2 in 22.9 fga's.



After I showed you a quote from a another ref talking about how Iverson saw the hardwood without compensation you continued on your path, You didn't even know the commisioner's disdain for Iverson. Heck, you didn't even know the reasons. You could just say my bad, or we can continue.

The ref you quoted was a known liar and a convicted criminal so why would I take that seriously? Heck even if we go by this statement "Allen Iverson provides a good example of a player who generated strong reaction, both positive and negative, within the corps of NBA referees." This means he got favorable calls from referees who liked him.


You didn't even know the commisioner's disdain for Iverson.

Here's a few articles about the commissioner' "disdain" for Iverson
http://assets.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2001/2001/0531/1208098.html
http://articles.philly.com/2001-05-01/sports/25301872_1_conseco-fieldhouse-nba-officials-special-treatment
http://articles.mcall.com/2001-05-31/sports/3355556_1_sixers-big-dog-bucks

An excerpt from one of the articles

The NBA assigns its veteran referees to work playoff games based upon merit. Different teams have complained throughout the years that superstars receive preferential treatment from the officials, and the Bucks are merely the latest upstarts to learn that playoff games at the end of May are often called differently than regular-season games.
Complaining about specific calls is one thing; alleging a conspiracy is another. And though nobody on the Bucks came right out and said it, all the questions about a conspiracy theory found a welcoming audience.
Allen said members of his family had told him that they were sitting across from NBA commissioner David Stern on Sunday and noticed him stand up to watch a replay after it appeared Allen got away with committing a foul against Iverson that wasn't called. "He jumped up real mad like he was cheering for Philly," Allen said.


Heck, you didn't even know the reasons. You could just say my bad, or we can continue.

Judging by your "lies" I'm pretty sure I know more about Iverson than you do so why bother to continue?

[houston]

allen iverson good grief

[Pointguard]

If you just bothered to read carefully, I never lied in any of my statements while you have lied numerous times just to prove a point.

Iverson took a pounding "And AI didn't complain."
Everybody complains, its slang. You are a bit too high strung. Its a comparative statement to others. AI got beat like no other player ever. Shaq who was being mucgged said this frequently.


"He was never first in FTA per game" I explained this. On the basketballreference page they did not bold his FTA per game that year like they do when a player is first in that category. Go look it up. I was shocked that AI missed so many games that year. Very rarely would he have missed more games than Piece, Shaq and Wade, all of whom a number close to his total FTA. I did jump the gun there.

"In '05 Shaq was ahead of him in FTA per game"
We already talked about this. Apparently you come from a family that freaks out on each other when something is 1/10th off and is all down to lose their mind on smaller things to avoid the bigger point. AI was hammered routinely, he was leveled hard. Why are you a Reggie Miller fan, I would guess that you seen him play, and are acting incredibly childish over calculations that are very tiny and very little relevance to the conversation overall.

[Pointguard]

How did taking more shots automatically equate to more freethrows? Iverson
was taking mostly jumpers at that time so taking 27.8 fga to get 9.8 fta's is not that big a travesty you make it out to be. For comparison, Kobe got 10.2 fta's for his 27.2 attempts which is not far off while the greatest slasher of all time (Jordan) just got two more fta's than Iverson shooting the same number of shots. Sad part is that you nitpicked a single season for Iverson and if we based on career averages he was actually getting 8.9 fta's to his 21.8 fga's which was more than Kobe's 7.6 in 19.6 and Jordan's 8.2 in 22.9 fga's.I am saying AI didn't get calls, Jordan and Kobe got fouled a lot as well. Biggest difference was in the 4th quarter they got the fouls called correctly. But there are other reasons.

*Jordan and Kobe posted a lot,
*were stationed closer to the basket in general,
*were often attacking from the side blocks as opposed from the top of the key where help comes over much more quicker and sloppier
*they created less off of the dribble, or with less dribbles than AI.
*AI zig zagged more than they did which allowed more defenders reaching
*AI was smaller and was affected by contact more,
*AI got players off balance as a main part of his attack,
*they had less help and was subject to more crowding.
*AI shot was released lower to the ground and other players went after it harder.
*they had more versatile games than AI. AI just attacked with his quickness.
*AI basic game was to attack from the elbows. Teams knew his starting point and where he wanted to go and tried to put bodies in his way.
*Speed, predictability, help defense, being smaller, sending a message to a driver culture, all were reasons why AI game was super conducive to drawing fouls. But they weren't called.



The ref you quoted was a known liar and a convicted criminal so why would I take that seriously? Heck even if we go by this statement "Allen Iverson provides a good example of a player who generated strong reaction, both positive and negative, within the corps of NBA referees." This means he got favorable calls from referees who liked him.
Because your eyes confirmed it. I'm sure there were refs that liked him.

There is always one or two that are different. I hope you do know that the Commissioner talks to refs to see how they are going to call the games frequently. The refs are an extension of the commissioner.



Here's a few articles about the commissioner' "disdain" for Iverson
http://assets.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2001/2001/0531/1208098.html
http://articles.philly.com/2001-05-01/sports/25301872_1_conseco-fieldhouse-nba-officials-special-treatment
http://articles.mcall.com/2001-05-31/sports/3355556_1_sixers-big-dog-bucks

An excerpt from one of the articles

The NBA assigns its veteran referees to work playoff games based upon merit. Different teams have complained throughout the years that superstars receive preferential treatment from the officials, and the Bucks are merely the latest upstarts to learn that playoff games at the end of May are often called differently than regular-season games.
Complaining about specific calls is one thing; alleging a conspiracy is another. And though nobody on the Bucks came right out and said it, all the questions about a conspiracy theory found a welcoming audience.
Allen said members of his family had told him that they were sitting across from NBA commissioner David Stern on Sunday and noticed him stand up to watch a replay after it appeared Allen got away with committing a foul against Iverson that wasn't called. "He jumped up real mad like he was cheering for Philly," Allen said.:lol really?
There was only one guy in the whole league that could tell the many bad teams without an exciting player to not take Iverson. You aren't the sharpest knife in the draw. But you should be able to catch that one.

[Reggie43]

Was away from the site for a while but our resident "Pointguard" homer never fails to amuse with his replies :lol

[PHILA]

4th quarter

One area Iverson excelled in was "clutch" scoring in the playoffs, albeit a smaller sample size. Compared to the regular season in the specified years below, he has a very slight increase in FGA/48. However, both his scoring volume and efficiency skyrocket due his FG% and FTA rate. His best playoff year in clutch scoring performance was 2003, averaging 50.7 Pts/48 on 64.6% TS. One example is this closeout game (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSRf5mttpcc) against the Hornets. For all the Iverson criticisms, there is no doubt he was a very reliable offensive weapon down the stretch of a close playoff game.

*All statistics from NBA.com


4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points


Allen Iverson

2000-2005 (Playoffs Only) - 31 Games

Per 48 Minutes

43.3 Points
3.0 Steals
5.7 Rebounds
5.7 Assists
3.3 Turnovers
46.0% FG
59.9% TS



For comparison, below we can see Kobe and LeBron's playoff clutch statistics, under the same stipulation from 82games.com.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=322375



Kobe Bryant

2006-2009 (Playoffs Only) - 32 Games

Per 48 Minutes

47.6 Points
1.5 Steals
6.0 Rebounds
5.2 Assists
1.9 Turnovers
45.2% FG
58.7% TS



LeBron James

2009-2013 (Playoffs Only) - 32 Games

*Not including 2011 Playoffs

Per 48 Minutes

46.2 Points
2.1 Steals
13.5 Rebounds
7.8 Assists
6.0 Turnovers
46.2% FG
62.8% TS