Putin is a master strategist

[B-hoop]

He has controlled the situation in Ukraine masterfully. I thought that the disaster with the Malaysian airplane would be the end of his interference in Ukraine but he managed to survive it and with the new offensive using undercover russian troops was close to regain all that the rebels had lost in the last few months.

But instead of conquering the cities he offers to mediate a cease-fire, which Ukraine accepted. Now he has divided the new Ukrainian government between those in favour of the war and those against it. And you can bet that he will give a lot of money to the faction against the war so they can win the elections happening later this year.

So now not only has he conquered Crimea without bloodshed, but he has possibly given the rebel states independence. This while raising his popularity at home and bitchslapping NATO.

:applause:

[zoom17]

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/russias-ruble-drops-historic-low-25529796

[KingBeasley08]

Russia has a history of having alphas as leaders

[ThePhantomCreep]

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/russias-ruble-drops-historic-low-25529796

Russia is looking at 5% drop in GDP as a result of those sanctions. The Russian economy is quickly turning into an even bigger joke than it already is.

But...Putin looks boss hunting bears. So badass. :facepalm

[Legends66NBA7]

I give him credit for trying to save the Amur Tiger.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01768/putin_1768930b.jpg

http://archive.premier.gov.ru/media/2008/10/10/10146/photolenta_big_photo.jpeg

[Akrazotile]

I haven't been following this whole affair very closely, can someone explain to me why it matters if Ukraine is controlled by Russia or not?

[zoom17]

I haven't been following this whole affair very closely, can someone explain to me why it matters if Ukraine is controlled by Russia or not?

Look it up yourself don't be lazy. Also you will get different answers depending on there view point.

[shadow]

It's not master strategy as much as it's betting on the fact that the west has no backbone or desire to spend on getting in a war with Russia over Ukraine. The sanctions are hurting Russia, it's not like they are coming out like champs or getting much out of it other than national pride. Woo hoo they got Crimea back, along with a shitload of poor people.

[Godzuki]

Pretty much this. Ukraine means "Border" in the Slavic language. Thats why youve sometimes heard it referred to as "The Ukraine". Its never been an independent nation and was actually the center of the first Russian Empire : Kieven Rus. The Western half of Ukraine are ethnically more related to Poles so they hate the Russians. The Eastern part consider themselves Russians for the most part. Western half doesnt want to be Russia, Eastern half does. Western part is dirt poor, Eastern part is much richer and controls all access to the sea (Odessa, Crimea etc).

America and Europe created a coup to overthrow the democratically elected pro-Russian president. Russia and the Eastern half said.......fine, you can leave......but dont even think that you can the richer eastern part thats dominated by Russians. America (and West Europe) attempted to destabalise The Ukraine and Syria through coups (pro-Nazis in Ukraines and ISIS in Syria) in an attempt to counter Russian influence in the region. Thats their aim, always has been. From Napolean, to Hitler, to now. Its always the same against Russia. Why? Because Russia controls the continent of Eurasia....the most important geopolitical and geographical region on the planet (Its got access to the middle east, China, Eastern Europe, the Mediterranean and the Pacific).

Doesnt matter whose in charge of Russia.....theyre always the bad guys.

*Monarchy : Bad Guys
*Communist : Bad Guys
*Democracy : Bad Guys

Always the bad guys. Russian people are always the devil. Never changes :oldlol: :oldlol:


i swear you're one of those mf'ers that is some revisionist retarded with so much made up shit you can't prove, you have to be real close to joining ISIS or some retarded extremist cause like that, since its obvious in your education and mentality. Its so slanted to hate the US or EU while prop'ing Islamists or anyone against them, i'd bet a $100~ you're one of those muslim educated retards.

FYI America and the EU did NOTHING to create a coup. Why is it so hard to believe countries and their people want to live western lifestyles over their oppressed, conservative ones with western industrialization which equates to higher qualities of life? But your retard brain always throws some anti America/EU rationale to it you make up or are taught from some terrorist mosque like its all a US/EU conspiracy. We don't need Ukraine, they want US. We have much greater enemies than Russia, or had, before they pulled all of this shit...which came AFTER Ukraine decided they wanted to join the EU.

Stop making up shit with your stupid agendas pro terrorist retard. really hope you join ISIS and get blown the fukk up, along with a few others here that are seriously stupid as fukk :cheers:

[StephHamann]

The West is bad people!

Come on Poland, the Balticum Hungary etc. were paradise on earth back in the day when the communist russkies ruled them. Now they are part of the western society and they even had to build a wall, because everybody wants to leave shitty western style europe to join the great russian community.

[B-hoop]

******s derailing the thread, there is no right or wrong in diplomacy, its a battle of interests between nations.

NATO wants to diminish Russia's sphere of influence, Russia wants to keep it as it is. Its as simple as that.

The sanctions will have a short term effect on their economy but annexing Crimea has bolstered Russia's security for the long term. Crimea is the only way to attack Russia through the sea. If they control the Black Sea they can easily defend themselves. (You can attack it from the Southeast but China is there to block any big army movements in the area).

Their base in Crimea was leased by the Ukrainian government, now its their land so they can stay there for as long as they want. Also it ended the threat of a NATO base being built if/when Ukraine joined the alliance.

You dumb****s have no idea of long term planning ffs.

Also, he clearly calculated that the risk of sanctions weren't meaningful in the long term since Germany/France are afraid to lose their supply of gas and oil, especially now that the summer is ending. You can bet that their will be "problems" in the pipelines just to remind them what would happen if Russia closed the pipes.

[StephHamann]

Poland/Baltics etc were used as proxy states by the Russians so the expansionist Germans and Western Europeans would never again attempt to take Russian land (You have a good history of it). Its a shame what happened to those states, but its no different to the way Latin American countries were used by the United States during the same cold war period. If anything South America suffered more than Eastern European countries.

Its funny how people think the Russians created Eastern Germany as a way to show how great communism was :oldlol: :oldlol: They created Eastern Germany so they could make the German people suffer for all the crimes they commited in ww1 and ww2. It was a direct "FUKC YOU" to Western Europe :D :D



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Germany

Although the GDR had to pay substantial war reparations to the USSR, it became the richest economy in the Eastern Bloc.

Russians even to stupid for your idiotic theories :roll:

[MavsSuperFan]

actually the fact that nato is at russia's borders and the fact that ukraine is trying to break free of their sphere of influence is compelling evidence that under his leadership russia has reached a histortically weak point in history.

A strong russia's control of the Baltics would not even be questioned. This russia is fighting over ukraine.

Having to fight over influence of ukraine is something a strong russia would never have to do.

[MavsSuperFan]

He has controlled the situation in Ukraine masterfully.:

I disagree, Russia throughout history for hundreds of years has dominated ukraine without need for the use of hard power



I thought that the disaster with the Malaysian airplane would be the end of his interference in Ukraine but he managed to survive it and with the new offensive using undercover russian troops was close to regain all that the rebels had lost in the last few months.

The Malaysian airline didnt really change anything, neither the netherlands or malaysia is a particularly important or powerful nation. Its not like when the germans suck the lusitania



But instead of conquering the cities he offers to mediate a cease-fire, which Ukraine accepted. Now he has divided the new Ukrainian government between those in favour of the war and those against it. And you can bet that he will give a lot of money to the faction against the war so they can win the elections happening later this year.
controlling only half of ukraine, with the other being close to europe, should be considered a failure for russia. the mere possibility of the western half of ukraine joined nato/ or more likely allowing the placement of american troops (probably wouldnt happen under an obama administration) should be considered a russian failure.

the equivalent would be for mexico or canada to develop close relations with china or russia and possibly even allowing china or russia to set up military basis there. We would never tolerate that and would instantly be at war over the mere prospect.


So now not only has he conquered Crimea without bloodshed, but he has possibly given the rebel states independence. This while raising his popularity at home and bitchslapping NATO.
1. the fact that russia had to militarily take crimea is a sign of how much their influence has waned. It would be like the US having to retake road island militarily.

http://www.worldmapsonline.com/images/Cram/History/expansionrussianemp.jpg
http://www.theodora.com/maps/new8/ussr.gif
look how deep into europe the russians used to call their domain. Most of those areas belong to NATO now.

Czech republic, hungary, poland, bulgaria, estonia, latvia, lithuania, romania, sloviakia, slovenia, albania, croatia

are all nato members

Georgia, Western Ukraine, and Kosovo, all are moving away from russian leadership.

NATO is raping russia by any reasonable measurement that takes into context what russia used to be.

[B-hoop]

actually the fact that nato is at russia's borders and the fact that ukraine is trying to break free of their sphere of influence is compelling evidence that under his leadership russia has reached a histortically weak point in history.

A strong russia's control of the Baltics would not even be questioned. This russia is fighting over ukraine.

Having to fight over influence of ukraine is something a strong russia would never have to do.

Context much? We are not discussing the fall of the Soviet Union and disaster of the "shock therapy" used to liberalize Russia's economy which happened under Yeltsin.

We are discussing how a country that defaulted on its debt a number of times, with a diminishing population and a corrupt government has taken on the mightiest nations of the world, excluding china, and has bitchslapped them around and around without never directly confronting them.

This is not a game, obviously NATO and Russia wont go to war over Ukraine. Its a diplomatic battle and NATO nations haven't won even one round until now.

Ok you just edited your post and went full retard. So let's talk about how Italy's actual government sucks because Rome used to dominate all of the civilized world and now they just rule over Italy..

[MavsSuperFan]

Context much? We are not discussing the fall of the Soviet Union and disaster of the "shock therapy" used to liberalize Russia's economy which happened under Yeltsin.

We are discussing how a country that defaulted on its debt a number of times, with a diminishing population and a corrupt government has taken on the mightiest nations of the world, excluding china, and has bitchslapped them around and around without never directly confronting them.

This is not a game, obviously NATO and Russia wont go to war over Ukraine. Its a diplomatic battle and NATO nations haven't won even one round until now.

Ok you just edited your post and went full retard. So let's talk about how Italy's actual government sucks because Rome used to dominate all of the civilized world and now they just rule over Italy..
NATO is winning against russia, no matter what happens in ukraine.

I am not saying its putin's fault russia is in one of the weaker points of its history, but it is in one of the weaker points in its history

[B-hoop]

So what?

The point of the thread is to talk about how Putin from a position of weakness outmanouvered NATO in Ukraine. No one is saying Russia is stronger than NATO, actually its the opposite, which makes it even more impressive.

NATO has the power to just conquer Ukraine outright if it wanted. But through diplomacy and tough talk Russia has been able pretty much dismantle Ukrainian sovereignity and turn it into a failed state where half of the country is in civil war. All that while getting the prize that they wanted and ensuring that Ukraine wont join NATO in the foreseeable future.

[MavsSuperFan]

******s derailing the thread, there is no right or wrong in diplomacy, its a battle of interests between nations.

NATO wants to diminish Russia's sphere of influence, Russia wants to keep it as it is. Its as simple as that.

The sanctions will have a short term effect on their economy but annexing Crimea has bolstered Russia's security for the long term. Crimea is the only way to attack Russia through the sea. If they control the Black Sea they can easily defend themselves. (You can attack it from the Southeast but China is there to block any big army movements in the area).

Their base in Crimea was leased by the Ukrainian government, now its their land so they can stay there for as long as they want. Also it ended the threat of a NATO base being built if/when Ukraine joined the alliance.

You dumb****s have no idea of long term planning ffs.

Also, he clearly calculated that the risk of sanctions weren't meaningful in the long term since Germany/France are afraid to lose their supply of gas and oil, especially now that the summer is ending. You can bet that their will be "problems" in the pipelines just to remind them what would happen if Russia closed the pipes.

NATO wants to diminish Russia's sphere of influence, Russia wants to keep it as it is. Its as simple as that.

Russia's sphere of influence is historically low. They have to fight over ukraine. Poland and the baltic states have american military there.

NATO is raping russia right now. Crimea was under the control of the russian empire and the USSR. Russia controlling it now is not impressive, or unexpected.

nato has already greatly diminished the russian sphere of influence

[MavsSuperFan]

So what?

The point of the thread is to talk about how Putin from a position of weakness outmanouvered NATO in Ukraine. No one is saying Russia is stronger than NATO, actually its the opposite, which makes it even more impressive.

NATO has the power to just conquer Ukraine outright if it wanted. But through diplomacy and tough talk Russia has been able pretty much dismantle Ukrainian sovereignity and turn it into a failed state where half of the country is in civil war. All that while getting the prize that they wanted and ensuring that Ukraine wont join NATO in the foreseeable future.
Losing Ukraine is not a huge loss for nato.

It would be like if you ****ed another guys wife and eventually she chose to go back to her husband. You didnt really lose anything, in fact you had the fun of ****ing her and ruining her family. and the husband has lost a lot

Ukraine kind of belongs to russia and was always deeply influenced by russia.

[B-hoop]

Dude you are completely missing the point.

NATO tried to take Ukraine into the fold right? Russia which is a lot weaker and a low chance of being able to stop it from happening.

BUT,

They were able to do it

[MavsSuperFan]

Dude you are completely missing the point.

NATO tried to take Ukraine into the fold right? Russia which is a lot weaker and a low chance of being able to stop it from happening.

BUT,

They were able to do it
No, I understand that the west wants to take ukraine into its sphere of influence.


NATO tried to take Ukraine into the fold right?
I wouldnt word it like that, NATO is full of countries like germany who are at this point russian appeasers.

Ukrainian entry into nato was never likely, but I do think the west was trying to peel ukraine away from russia.


Russia which is a lot weaker and a low chance of being able to stop it from happening.
Ukraine is a million times more important to russia than it is to the west. There was almost a 100% chance that russia would hold on to ukraine if it deployed military forces, because it would be insane of the west to fight russia militarily over ukraine.

The analogy of ****ing some other guys wife and her eventually going back to her husband is apt. The west loses nothing by ukraine being annexed by russia.

BUT,

They were able to do it
It would be insane to fight russia over ukraine. if russia was willing to deploy military forces than o well.

[Godzuki]

we don't want to invade Russia. Why would anyone think that? :facepalm u know how much of a nightmare that would be even if we were successful, talking about occupying or running that country? we would probably like them to have another leader than a paranoid ex KGB agent tho, we and the EU don't trust him anymore. he completely bold face lied to the EU too, especially after him and the German Chancelor were tight. thats why leader bitches are dumb tho, she befriends probably the most sexist leader on earth thinking she can trust him, and he just played her :facepalm

-------

those former Soviet Union countries WANTED to join NATO. in fact they had to go thru a long process to even be allowed in. most countries not run by shitty dictators oppressing their people, with relatively intelligent people who aren't extremists probably all want to join NATO

---------

Putin won the short term Ukraine/Malaysian airliner downing strategically but he's really fukking Russia once the EU cuts reliance on him/Russia, and sanctions run their course over time. Russia cannot win economically VS the west. he can be cool with India, Iran, NKorea, hell even China but the west runs the world economically. they can starve you out of the world economy if they want to, and they're sort of starving Russia w/ sanctions which take longer terms for effects, albeit reluctantly.

------------

West is the Best :pimp:

[KingBeasley08]

Russia is looking at 5% drop in GDP as a result of those sanctions. The Russian economy is quickly turning into an even bigger joke than it already is.

But...Putin looks boss hunting bears. So badass. :facepalm
Yet his support grows. Dude is a straight up Machiavellian.