The Scottish Independence Referendum, 2014 Thread

[RagaZ]

Finally. Can't sleep.

Tomorrow's papers
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BxxIDUvIUAAXbxo.jpg

[Booz Vivic]

hope they vote yes. can form a much better country if they dont have to spend taxmoney on army e.t.c.

go the nordic way, not the uk/america

[sweggeh]

This is gonna sting. Cant believe Scots are being so short sighted. Someone should slap the shit out of Alex Salmond.

[NumberSix]

Labour destroyed the UK.

[sweggeh]

He is singlehandedly leading Scotland astray, and will be the reason for their ultimate failure as a nation.

[KyleKong]

This is gonna sting. Cant believe Scots are being so short sighted. Someone should slap the shit out of Alex Salmond.

I read that the poll on the voters is almost a dead 50/50.

[KyleKong]

Free my nikka Shade

Shade in South Ireland dumb ****.

[RagaZ]

He is singlehandedly leading Scotland astray, and will be the reason for their ultimate failure as a nation.
53-47.

[sweggeh]

Labour destroyed the UK.

:oldlol:

Oh wait your serious? You do know one of the main reasons Scotland are leaving is because of their hate for the Tories? They love Labour. If they could guarantee they would win the election they wouldnt hesitate to stay.

[sweggeh]

I read that the poll on the voters is almost a dead 50/50.

Yep pretty much. I am prepared for anything though.

[sweggeh]

Shade in South Ireland dumb ****.

:roll:

[9erempiree]

Next up....Catalonia.

[sweggeh]

53-47.

Hopefully the No movement pull it out, but I cant see it after everything I have seen and heard over the last few weeks.

[StephHamann]

http://shiftthewayyouthink.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/freedom-1.jpg

[NumberSix]

:oldlol:

Oh wait your serious? You do know one of the main reasons Scotland are leaving is because of their hate for the Tories? They love Labour. If they could guarantee they would win the election they wouldnt hesitate to stay.
Labour is no longer "labour".

Labour used to be about "the working man" but they haven't been that since the 70's. Now they're just diet communism. Scotland is still very nationalist. They're not interested in Labour's no borders, globalized, unlimited immigration, anti-Christian, marxist nonsense.

[Nick Young]

This is gonna sting. Cant believe Scots are being so short sighted. Someone should slap the shit out of Alex Salmond.
LAWL, they gonna jack all yer oil breh, 90% of it according to Geneva convention laws:lol

[NumberSix]

Vote UKIP

[Nick Young]

http://shiftthewayyouthink.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/freedom-1.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/2s7e8hv.jpg

[Nick Young]

Independence advocates point to statistics showing that an independent Scotland would rank as the 14th-wealthiest country in the world per capita, higher than Britain, with oil and gas accounting for about 15 percent of economic output.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/scotland-bets-on-north-sea-oil-even-as-the-wells-start-to-run-dry/2014/09/13/e61edfd9-d0ec-4bb2-826b-38c76bb113aa_story.html

wow, pretty impressive Scotland!

[NumberSix]

Independence advocates point to statistics showing that an independent Scotland would rank as the 14th-wealthiest country in the world per capita, higher than Britain, with oil and gas accounting for about 15 percent of economic output.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/scotland-bets-on-north-sea-oil-even-as-the-wells-start-to-run-dry/2014/09/13/e61edfd9-d0ec-4bb2-826b-38c76bb113aa_story.html

wow, pretty impressive Scotland!
The oil will run out within our lifetime. The bigger resource would be not being under the EU's retarded fishing policies.

[KingBeasley08]

William Wallace would be so happy :rockon:

VIVA SCOTLAND :rockon: :banana:

[Nick Young]

The Bruce would be proud! He was a bitch in the movie, but more badass then Wallace in real life!

http://www.prisonersofeternity.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/robert-the-bruce-2.jpg

http://thegalileo.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/robert-the-bruce-braveheart-actoer.jpg

[KyleKong]

http://oi60.tinypic.com/2s7e8hv.jpg
Hahaha

[gigantes]

i wonder how an independent scotland would handle the currency situation? i suppose england would likely not let them continue to use the pound, and this might be a bad time to apply for the EU.


also, i assume the N. ireland leadership is flush with british funding, hence no threat of succeeding there...?

[Trollsmasher]

question: are there many kebabs in scotland?

if not, can they rebuild Hadrian wall a little bit to the north and nuke London?

[gts]

i wonder how an independent scotland would handle the currency situation? i suppose england would likely not let them continue to use the pound, and this might be a bad time to apply for the EU.


also, i assume the N. ireland leadership is flush with british funding, hence no threat of succeeding there...?


I don't know and as politics tend to do one side says one thing and the other side says the opposite and there is commentary from the "experts" that contradict each other

From what I read the "yes" Scotland leadership said it would use the British Pound, The PM said no, no they won't be using the British Pound it wouldn't be allowed... the experts are all in disagreement, one said it would be illegal and cited a bunch of law and another said it would be fine and cited a bunch of loopholes in the laws

[NumberSix]

i wonder how an independent scotland would handle the currency situation? i suppose england would likely not let them continue to use the pound, and this might be a bad time to apply for the EU.


also, i assume the N. ireland leadership is flush with british funding, hence no threat of succeeding there...?
Is there ever a good time?

[gigantes]

I don't know and as politics tend to do one side says one thing and the other side says the opposite and there is commentary from the "experts" that contradict each other

From what I read the "yes" Scotland leadership said it would use the British Pound, The PM said no, no they won't be using the British Pound it wouldn't be allowed... the experts are all in disagreement, one said it would be illegal and cited a bunch of law and another said it would be fine and cited a bunch of loopholes in the laws
interesting, thanks. i'm sure it's complicated, but i wonder how a govt and it's network of national and independent banks would work through a period of having no official currency?



Is there ever a good time?
well, obviously.

the first ten years or whatever when loans flowed like water would have been the easiest time to join. joining now when the whole thing is struggling hard to stay afloat would seem to be a bad move for any solvent country, and something that wouldn't be allowed for the bottom feeders.

[Nick Young]

i wonder how an independent scotland would handle the currency situation? i suppose england would likely not let them continue to use the pound, and this might be a bad time to apply for the EU.


also, i assume the N. ireland leadership is flush with british funding, hence no threat of succeeding there...?
North Ireland love England and the UK. Bloody royalists:lol

[Nick Young]

English people I know seem to think that England will contol 60-80% of the oil fields, that's what it's saying in their papers. They tell me this with confidence.

On non-English news sites it says Geneva conventions state Scotland will get 90% of the oil if they follow the lines.

Does anyone know what will actually happen? Which country will control the UK oil deposits?

[KingBeasley08]

To think 100 years ago the British Empire was one of the biggest and strongest in the world

The era of the Europeans did ultimately come to an end and pave the way to the era of Murrica :rockon:

[Nick Young]

To think 100 years ago the British Empire was one of the biggest and strongest in the world

The era of the Europeans did ultimately come to an end and pave the way to the era of Murrica :rockon:
We started the craze of revolutions against kings.

UK still has a monarchy and aristocracy that still actually has political power in their constitution XD

Now we da bess:rockon: :rockon: :rockon:

[NumberSix]

To think 100 years ago the British Empire was one of the biggest and strongest in the world

The era of the Europeans did ultimately come to an end and pave the way to the era of Murrica :rockon:
Not "one of". And they just gave it away. That's what left wing politics will do. Rot your country from the inside out.

[gts]

English people I know seem to think that England will contol 60-80% of the oil fields, that's what it's saying in their papers. They tell me this with confidence.

On non-English news sites it says Geneva conventions state Scotland will get 90% of the oil if they follow the lines.

Does anyone know what will actually happen? Which country will control the UK oil deposits?
I'm sure that will be part of the negotiations between the two countries should the yes vote go through

[NumberSix]

English people I know seem to think that England will contol 60-80% of the oil fields, that's what it's saying in their papers. They tell me this with confidence.

On non-English news sites it says Geneva conventions state Scotland will get 90% of the oil if they follow the lines.

Does anyone know what will actually happen? Which country will control the UK oil deposits?
England is trying to claim an utterly ridiculous maritime border. It's like Mexico trying to claim all the water next to the California coastline is Mexican territory. It's nonsense. They know it has no chance. It's classic overreaching to start negotiations already skewed in your favour.

[Nick Young]

England is trying to claim an utterly ridiculous maritime border. It's like Mexico trying to claim all the water next to the California coastline is Mexican territory. It's nonsense. They know it has no chance. It's classic overreaching to start negotiations already skewed in your favour.
Ahh good to know. Yeah my English housemate who's really pro-England seemed really confident England is keeping a huge amount of the oil, and I kept asking are you sure, I heard different, and he seemed really confident.

Good to know it's just England being delusional again, like they were when they put Walcott on the cover of football magazines next to Messi and Cristiano with the headline "Footballs 3 young superstars".:lol

[9erempiree]

Good to know it's just England being delusional again, like they were when they put Walcott on the cover of football magazines next to Messi and Cristiano with the headline "Footballs 3 young superstars".:lol

No surprise there considering the English media is who started "tabloid news" with their outrageous headlines to sell newspapers. Look at all the crap they put on their covers to sell papers.

They are known to sensationalize shit.

[MMM]

We started the craze of revolutions against kings.

UK still has a monarchy and aristocracy that still actually has political power in their constitution XD

Now we da bess:rockon: :rockon: :rockon:


WTF are you talking about

your grasp on history is lacking

the Monarchy/House of lords are more about institutional legacy than actual power and some would argue that it is a stronger institution than the American head of state. People in the UK or constitutional monarchies are no less free than Americans

[Nanners]

Regarding the UK monarchy, Doug Stanhope says it best (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctOHo4RzZEc)

[gts]

What was interesting on this Scotland thing is that they'll still recognize the monarchy if I was reading the article right

So they'll be their own little nation but the Queen of England will still be their Queen

[MMM]

What was interesting on this Scotland thing is that they'll still recognize the monarchy if I was reading the article right

So they'll be their own little nation but the Queen of England will still be their Queen

The Queen is still the queen in countries like Canada, Australia, NZ, etc it isn't that weird for them to continue as a constitional monarchy.

[9erempiree]

WTF are you talking about

your grasp on history is lacking

the Monarchy/House of lords are more about institutional legacy than actual power and some would argue that it is a stronger institution than the American head of state. People in the UK or constitutional monarchies are no less free than Americans

We bigger bro. If the English people weren't so in love with their monarchy, it would be non-existent. There is a reason why they don't do shit but just another puppet. Granted, they do some charitable cause but they should be stripped of their titles. It is only there because they value their heritage.

Our head of state is the President, who the world considers to be the most powerful person on this planet.

[9erempiree]

What was interesting on this Scotland thing is that they'll still recognize the monarchy if I was reading the article right

So they'll be their own little nation but the Queen of England will still be their Queen

Public relations at work here.

[gts]

The Queen is still the queen in countries like Canada, Australia, NZ, etc it isn't that weird for them to continue as a constitional monarchy.

:lol I always that that was a little strange too...

I realize the monarchy is more figurehead than political power but still..

We don't want to be part of your country but we'll keep the Queen

[9erempiree]

:lol I always that that was a little strange too...

I realize the monarchy is more figurehead than political power but still..

We don't want to be part of your country but we'll keep the Queen

Basically your government sucks but we acknowledge the Queen.:lol

[KingBeasley08]

Yea the monarch in Britain is pretty much just a celebrity. When the King George was hiding in WW2, Churchill was running shit like a boss

The only reason the institution still exists is that like other celebrities, the royal family is still very popular

[MMM]

We bigger bro. If the English people weren't so in love with their monarchy, it would be non-existent. There is a reason why they don't do shit but just another puppet. Granted, they do some charitable cause but they should be stripped of their titles. It is only there because they value their heritage.

Our head of state is the President, who the world considers to be the most powerful person on this planet.

I just speaking strictly about their institional value. Just feel it is healthier for a democracy that the head of state is viewed as non political or the head of the government should have far more powers. The last few American head of states have been far more paralysing/divisive than effective, especially how they impact the everyday governing.

[NumberSix]

Yea the monarch in Britain is pretty much just a celebrity. When the King George was hiding in WW2, Churchill was running shit like a boss

The only reason the institution still exists is that like other celebrities, the royal family is still very popular
Actually, the monarch is still the supreme power. A democratic government only exists because the monarch agrees to allow it.

[gigantes]

Actually, the monarch is still the supreme power. A democratic government only exists because the monarch agrees to allow it.
which is nothing more than a technicality at this point.

nobody in their right minds, from the populace and the govt through the royal family itself, would press for the monarchy to retake control.

[KingBeasley08]

^ yeah if the queen Elizabeth tried running shit, public opinion would turn against her faster than the US did v. W Bush after Iraq :lol

[pinhead]

Do the right thing, Scotland.

We are stronger united. We shaped the free world the way it is enjoyed and taken for granted today.

We led the world to defeat Nazism whilst the rest of the world surrendered(France) or were too scared to get involved until the hard work had been done(USA). Lets not throw over 300 years of history away.

Rule Britannia.

[RagaZ]

http://www.jcwilson.ca/J.C._Wilson_Patriotics/WLS-004_files/WilsonBritanniaDetail2.jpg

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Isn't it funny that even if 51% of Scotland votes for independence, that's 2.5m deciding the immediate future of 60m people. ****ing ridiculous, and yet another reason why the Tories are useless bastards

[NumberSix]

Isn't it funny that even if 51% of Scotland votes for independence, that's 2.5m deciding the immediate future of 60m people. ****ing ridiculous, and yet another reason why the Tories are useless bastards
Vote UKIP.

[9erempiree]

Do the right thing, Scotland.

We are stronger united. We shaped the free world the way it is enjoyed and taken for granted today.

We led the world to defeat Nazism whilst the rest of the world surrendered(France) or were too scared to get involved until the hard work had been done(USA). Lets not throw over 300 years of history away.

Rule Britannia.

You guys didn't shape the free world. As a matter of fact, you guys were taxing Americans for the stupidest things.

Led the world to defeat Nazism? Hitler called out America, which in turn, we just decided to declare war and beat those bastards.

Historically, since the beginning of time in America, America has been much more influential to the world than the motherland. Fast forward today, Americans have a much more influence in the world than England has on the rest of the world.

Don't get me wrong, I love British shoes and Savile Row. Lets not forget some of the men's frangrances/cologne that I like from you guys too but you guys didn't shape the free world by any means. LOL@ a monarchy shaping a free world.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Vote UKIP.

Not touching that muppet Farage.

To be honest they're all useless, but the Tories have seen that this gives them an opportunity to wipe out 41 Labour MPs when they'd only lose 1. They know what they're doing.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

You guys didn't shape the free world. As a matter of fact, you guys were taxing Americans for the stupidest things.

Led the world to defeat Nazism? Hitler called out America, which in turn, we just decided to declare war and beat those bastards.

Historically, since the beginning of time in America, America has been much more influential to the world than the motherland. Fast forward today, Americans have a much more influence in the world than England has on the rest of the world.

Don't get me wrong, I love British shoes and Savile Row. Lets not forget some of the men's frangrances/cologne that I like from you guys too but you guys didn't shape the free world by any means. LOL@ a monarchy shaping a free world.

Obviously it's the Native Americans who run the USA, right? Not the ones that have British descendents?

[StephHamann]

You guys didn't shape the free world. As a matter of fact, you guys were taxing Americans for the stupidest things.

Led the world to defeat Nazism? Hitler called out America, which in turn, we just decided to declare war and beat those bastards.

Historically, since the beginning of time in America, America has been much more influential to the world than the motherland. Fast forward today, Americans have a much more influence in the world than England has on the rest of the world.

Don't get me wrong, I love British shoes and Savile Row. Lets not forget some of the men's frangrances/cologne that I like from you guys too but you guys didn't shape the free world by any means. LOL@ a monarchy shaping a free world.

Capitalism and the industrial revolution didn't shape the world today youre right. :applause:

[9erempiree]

Capitalism and the industrial revolution didn't shape the world today youre right. :applause:

Ronald Reagan freed Germany though. :banana:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/ReaganBerlinWall.jpg

An American President doing his thing out of his jurisdiction. No Queen does this kind of stuff.

[StephHamann]

Ronald Reagan freed Germany though. :banana:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/ReaganBerlinWall.jpg

An American President doing his thing out of his jurisdiction. No Queen does this kind of stuff.

Wow rewriting history at its best :facepalm


http://www.rhein-zeitung.de/cms_media/module_img/479/239835_1_arslideimg_239835_1_org_hasselhoff.jpg

this guy freed Germany, the biggest anticommunist since Hitler :applause:

[MMM]

Ronald Reagan freed Germany though. :banana:

I say this as a conservative but he was a terrible president and many of his decisions had a long term disastrous impact.

Contries that followed the British tradtions are not only as free as America but could be argued are freer societies. Hell the day to day government struggles to run because of how divisive it is from the top.

[9erempiree]

I say this as a conservative but he was a terrible president and many of his decisions had a long term disastrous impact.

Contries that followed the British tradtions are not only as free as America but could be argued are freer societies. Hell the day to day government struggles to run because of how divisive it is from the top.

You are a radical conservative. Even the Reagan would be considered a liberal by today's far rights.

Tea Party guys are obstructionists that get nothing done.

Reagan is GOAT President because of his ability to get the 2 parties to agree.

:facepalm

[Nick Young]

WTF are you talking about

your grasp on history is lacking

the Monarchy/House of lords are more about institutional legacy than actual power and some would argue that it is a stronger institution than the American head of state. People in the UK or constitutional monarchies are no less free than Americans
You don't understand British law if you think that the House of Lords and Monarchy have no political power:roll: :roll: :roll:

House of Lords is full of people BORN IN TO POWER. They are able to shoot down bills in parliament if they wanted to. The Monarchy is TECHNICALLY the leader of the armed forces:roll: :roll: :roll:

Birthright power is still a fundamental part of British government XD

Criticizing the Queen is still seen as treason and the punishment is still death XD

[Dresta]

which is nothing more than a technicality at this point.

nobody in their right minds, from the populace and the govt through the royal family itself, would press for the monarchy to retake control.
That's something that has developed with Elizabeth II as she has always avoided getting involved in politics; her idiot son on the other hand...

In both the US and the UK the structures are there that would allow and preserve a totalitarian form of rule - existing legislation is enough to be used tyrannically - it is only the pervading cultures of these nations in favour of liberty (a tradition that goes back half a millenia) that prevents the use of power in this way. Once that goes, who knows? Britain itself has a legislative body with more or less absolute power concentrated within it, a parliamentary dictatorship in other words.

It is foolish to think we are the exception to the historical rule that powers grow and then decline - yet i would bet most people think humanity is on a perpetual upward curve (even an exponential one in the case of people like primetime).

[Nick Young]

I just speaking strictly about their institional value. Just feel it is healthier for a democracy that the head of state is viewed as non political or the head of the government should have far more powers. The last few American head of states have been far more paralysing/divisive than effective, especially how they impact the everyday governing.
Here are a few of the powers that the UK Queen still actually has, according to UK law. These powers HAVE NOT BEEN RESTRICTED BY ANY WRITTEN LAW. There are technically NO CHECKS AND BALANCES ABOVE HER if she chose to wield these powers:
She can dissolve parliament
She can sack the prime minister
She can break treaties
She can declare war

This current queen has always refused to interfere with parliament even when asked, but who knows what would happen if a power tripping Queen or King took the throne:roll:

Next up is the house of lords, which consists of a bunch of dukes and duchesses BORN IN TO POWER, and who have power from birth to death :roll:

These people have the power to amend and revise bills that pass in the house of commons. They are basically the Supreme Court, only they are born in to power. They can veto whatever they want XD

I dont understand why UK people are happy with the Queen and House of Lords having political power but it doesn't seem to bother anyone here.

[MMM]

You don't understand British law if you think that the House of Lords and Monarchy have no political power:roll: :roll: :roll:

House of Lords is full of people BORN IN TO POWER. They are able to shoot down bills in parliament if they wanted to. The Monarchy is TECHNICALLY the leader of the armed forces:roll: :roll: :roll:

Birthright power is still a fundamental part of British government XD

Criticizing the Queen is still seen as treason and the punishment is still death XD

never said they have no power but the political power is in decline with incremental reforms. The institional legacy is what largely remains and many global constitional experts have made arguments about it being a superior set up. Again Brits are as free if not more. There many ways one can measure freedom, and it turns out America isn't as free as you and other poster would like to believe.

[9erempiree]

Here are a few of the powers that the UK Queen still actually has, according to UK law. These powers HAVE NOT BEEN RESTRICTED BY ANY WRITTEN LAW. There are technically NO CHECKS AND BALANCES ABOVE HER if she chose to wield these powers:
She can dissolve parliament
She can sack the prime minister
She can break treaties
She can declare war

This current queen has always refused to interfere with parliament even when asked, but who knows what would happen if a power tripping Queen or King took the throne:roll:

Next up is the house of lords, which consists of a bunch of dukes and duchesses BORN IN TO POWER, and who have power from birth to death :roll:

These people have the power to amend and revise bills that pass in the house of commons. They are basically the Supreme Court, only they are born in to power XD

I dont understand why UK people are happy with the Queen and House of Lords having political power but it doesn't seem to bother anyone here.

Never thought of that.

In America, we got people worried about tyranny and conspiracy but what you are saying does parallel with my train of thought in regards to our very own government.

If some crazy ass King or Queen decides to exercise those powers than it will be doom.

Didn't know they can do all that. That is a lot of power. There is some truth in what Nicky is saying.

[Nick Young]

Isn't it funny that even if 51% of Scotland votes for independence, that's 2.5m deciding the immediate future of 60m people. ****ing ridiculous, and yet another reason why the Tories are useless bastards
This bill was passed in UK parliament a few years ago.

It could have been easily amended or even shot down completely, as SNP were still a very small minority party before this bill passed.

INSTEAD it was left untouched.

Now, when the vote is 2 weeks away, English politicians suddenly start talking about it:roll:

England done phucked up. If they wanted the union so bad they would have been campaigning up there earlier, rather then just arrogantly assume the Scots would be too afraid to vote for independence.

[Nick Young]

Not touching that muppet Farage.

To be honest they're all useless, but the Tories have seen that this gives them an opportunity to wipe out 41 Labour MPs when they'd only lose 1. They know what they're doing.
Dawg, labour is basically the same as the tories, if not worse and more out of touch nowadays. Lib Dems are torrie clones.


UKIP is basically the new party that represents the interests of the British working class:lol And all the middle class liberals who vote labour hate UKIP:lol

If you want to vote for the working man, vote UKIP.

[MMM]

Here are a few of the powers that the UK Queen still actually has, according to UK law. These powers HAVE NOT BEEN RESTRICTED BY ANY WRITTEN LAW. There are technically NO CHECKS AND BALANCES ABOVE HER if she chose to wield these powers:
She can dissolve parliament
She can sack the prime minister
She can break treaties
She can declare war

This current queen has always refused to interfere with parliament even when asked, but who knows what would happen if a power tripping Queen or King took the throne:roll:

Next up is the house of lords, which consists of a bunch of dukes and duchesses BORN IN TO POWER, and who have power from birth to death :roll:

These people have the power to amend and revise bills that pass in the house of commons. They are basically the Supreme Court, only they are born in to power. They can veto whatever they want XD

I dont understand why UK people are happy with the Queen and House of Lords having political power but it doesn't seem to bother anyone here.

And yet Brits are as free as Americans. While both have seen rights and freedoms roled back over the last decade. People and posters like you should be worried about actual freedom being lost over hypothetical tyranical King/Queen.

[Nick Young]

And yet Brits are as free as Americans. While both have seen rights and freedoms roled back over the last decade. People and posters like you should be worried about actual freedom being lost over hypothetical tyranical King/Queen.
Charles ain't like his mama, bro. He already has been hinting about what he's going to do once he takes the throne for a long time.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Dawg, labour is basically the same as the tories, if not worse and more out of touch nowadays. Lib Dems are torrie clones.


UKIP is basically the new party that represents the interests of the British working class:lol And all the middle class liberals who vote labour hate UKIP:lol

If you want to vote for the working man, vote UKIP.

Yeah they are, but if the Tories want rid of Labour, then they should cut them out - which is the obvious tactic imo.

I don't want to vote for the working man, the working man in today's UK is an idiot

[MMM]

That's something that has developed with Elizabeth II as she has always avoided getting involved in politics; her idiot son on the other hand...

In both the US and the UK the structures are there that would allow and preserve a totalitarian form of rule - existing legislation is enough to be used tyrannically - it is only the pervading cultures of these nations in favour of liberty (a tradition that goes back half a millenia) that prevents the use of power in this way. Once that goes, who knows? Britain itself has a legislative body with more or less absolute power concentrated within it, a parliamentary dictatorship in other words.

It is foolish to think we are the exception to the historical rule that powers grow and then decline - yet i would bet most people think humanity is on a perpetual upward curve (even an exponential one in the case of people like primetime).

I would be more concern with the bolded and the amount of power the PMO has than the Monarchy exercising more control. Directed to NY and 9er

[9erempiree]

Yeah they are, but if the Tories want rid of Labour, then they should cut them out - which is the obvious tactic imo.

I don't want to vote for the working man, the working man in today's UK is an idiot

WTF is that?

Working man is an idiot?

That won't pass here homie.

[Dresta]

You don't understand British law if you think that the House of Lords and Monarchy have no political power:roll: :roll: :roll:

House of Lords is full of people BORN IN TO POWER. They are able to shoot down bills in parliament if they wanted to. The Monarchy is TECHNICALLY the leader of the armed forces:roll: :roll: :roll:

Birthright power is still a fundamental part of British government XD

Criticizing the Queen is still seen as treason and the punishment is still death XD
Not really. The House of Lords has no real independent power any more - power is all concentrated in the Commons. You can only get peerage these days by arse-crawling the big parties or donating them loads of cash (or both). The upper house is thus filled with cretins who don't belong there and will follow whatever line they are told to follow.

The Lords will be swept away and replaced with an elected Senate sooner rather than later (pity the US started electing its Senators also, as the standard of men in the Senate was a good deal higher prior to the 17th amendment - and for all the 'intellectuals' who support this change now, it was the religious and demagogic fanatics like William Jennings Bryan who pushed for it at the time, basically so men of his low calibre could become Senators).

An unelected house is a necessary component of good government, and had been well-established as such until the unstoppable dogma of popular sovereignty swept the world and declared that the masses should have all the power, because the lowest people always make the best decisions, of course :rockon: .

I find it hilarious that now these pure democrats - who think every man or woman is responsible enough to direct society itself, and to control the destiny of a nation - believe the same individuals are too irresponsible to make everyday lifestyle decisions without ever-present paternal control restricting or directing the decisions he/she makes.

How can people incapable of directing their own lives possibly have any right to exert power or control over the lives of those who can?

[NumberSix]

Never thought of that.

In America, we got people worried about tyranny and conspiracy but what you are saying does parallel with my train of thought in regards to our very own government.

If some crazy ass King or Queen decides to exercise those powers than it will be doom.

Didn't know they can do all that. That is a lot of power. There is some truth in what Nicky is saying.
What did you think a queen was?

Like I said before, the queen is the supreme power. There is only a democratic government because she allows it. She's still the queen.

[9erempiree]

So will this Alex Salmond guy be the guy running things if the Scottish people voted for independence? Or there will be an election? Not very familiar with the political spectrum there.

[MMM]

Not really. The House of Lords has no real independent power any more - power is all concentrated in the Commons. You can only get peerage these days by arse-crawling the big parties or donating them loads of cash (or both). The upper house is thus filled with cretins who don't belong there and will follow whatever line they are told to follow.

The Lords will be swept away and replaced with an elected Senate sooner rather than later (pity the US started electing its Senators also, as the standard of men in the Senate was a good deal higher prior to the 17th amendment - and for all the 'intellectuals' who support this change now, it was the religious and demagogic fanatics like William Jennings Bryan who pushed for it at the time, basically so men of his low calibre could become Senators).

An unelected house is a necessary component of good government, and had been well-established as such until the unstoppable dogma of popular sovereignty swept the world and declared that the masses should have all the power, because the lowest people always make the best decisions, of course :rockon: .

I find it hilarious that now these pure democrats - who think every man or woman is responsible enough to direct society itself, and to control the destiny of a nation - believe the same individuals are too irresponsible to make everyday lifestyle decisions without ever-present paternal control restricting or directing the decisions he/she makes.

How can people incapable of directing their own lives possibly have any right to exert power or control over the lives of those who can?

Agreed, I don't want government to be about what is popular and having someone who isn't beholden to popular opinon is ideal in governance over the longer term. Not sure if anyone's got the balance right but democracy isn't simply about elections.

[9erempiree]

What did you think a queen was?

Like I said before, the queen is the supreme power. There is only a democratic government because she allows it. She's still the queen.

Puppet homie.

She never did shit but I didn't think what Charles may do and he is a shady character.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

WTF is that?

Working man is an idiot?

That won't pass here homie.

You clearly don't live here, or haven't met anyone from here

[NumberSix]

Puppet homie.

She never did shit but I didn't think what Charles may do and he is a shady character.
You need to understand the commonwealth and the crown.

[Dresta]

Dawg, labour is basically the same as the tories, if not worse and more out of touch nowadays. Lib Dems are torrie clones.


UKIP is basically the new party that represents the interests of the British working class:lol And all the middle class liberals who vote labour hate UKIP:lol

If you want to vote for the working man, vote UKIP.
This is actually very true and a nice little irony. Labour voters are by-in-large drawn from the liberal-educated middle class, who love how much they care for the poor, and have no problem with mass immigration because they have the money to not live in the areas affected by it.

Whereas UKIP voters are mostly working class (the people the Labour Party was supposed to represent) and yet Labour and its supporters won't hesitate for a second in branding UKIP and its supporters as a racist rabble of right-wing fanatics. Yet these are the people who have actually experienced the consequences of mass immigration first-hand.

So, as usual, the liberal elites and Guardian readers of the labour party find the masses they supposedly care so much for repugnant in principle and practice, which is unsurprising because they rarely mix with these people and know **** all about them or their situations. That is rather typical for a self-termed 'liberal' again: only showing their concern for the plight of the poor from afar.

[9erempiree]

You clearly don't live here, or haven't met anyone from here

I have met a few and politics isn't what comes up first. Soccer actually does.

Anyways, I find it odd that the "working man" would be labeled as idiots as compared to how we view the "working man."

[BlackWhiteGreen]

I have met a few and politics isn't what comes up first. Soccer actually does.

Anyways, I find it odd that the "working man" would be labeled as idiots as compared to how we view the "working man."

Depends what you consider the working man, honestly. I wouldn't brand many, if any, of my co-workers an idiot. However, many other people I know through other walks of life are essentially idiots.

[Nick Young]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/doncaster--is-part-of-scotland--after-900-year-old-administrative-error-comes-to-light.html#OpmmMEi

The revolution begins. It turns out that Doncaster, a town in South Yorkshire actually belongs to Scotland, due to a 900 year old treaty:lol

If Scottish go rogue, they will take Doncaster with them! Who else will join the Scottish empire!

[NumberSix]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/doncaster--is-part-of-scotland--after-900-year-old-administrative-error-comes-to-light.html#OpmmMEi

The revolution begins. It turns out that Doncaster, a town in South Yorkshire actually belongs to Scotland, due to a 900 year old treaty:lol

If Scottish go rogue, they will take Doncaster with them! Who else will join the Scottish empire!
Nova Scotia? :confusedshrug:

[BlackWhiteGreen]

They can take Donny. Aside from the football ground it's not worth having

[9erempiree]

What's going on?

Any news sites?

[Nick Young]

English people throwing pissy fits trashing the Scottish on facebook-hope results are here in the morning.


FREEDOM! We'll be able to welcome Scotland as brothers in freedom soon:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Scots are actually pretty great.
Invented telephones, television, lawnmowers, microwaves and computer games. Also invented the steam engine and calculus.

The UK will fall without Scottish brains and ingenuity. That's what you get for treating them like a joke for all these years, England! XD


FREEDOM COMING!

http://oi62.tinypic.com/123slkk.jpg

[MavsSuperFan]

If the UK loses Scotland, there really is no way to justify the UK being a permanent security council member with veto powers.

Clearly at that point Japan and Germany at a minimum would be more powerful/influential countries. (losing scotland probably forces the UK to give up its nuclear deterrent).

Also UK's voting powers in the IMF and world bank have long needed reductions, its ridiculous and unfair for a country to have influence disproportionate to their economy

[Nick Young]

If the UK loses Scotland, there really is no way to justify the UK being a permanent security council member with veto powers.

Clearly at that point Japan and Germany at a minimum would be more powerful/influential countries. (losing scotland probably forces the UK to give up its nuclear deterrent).

Also UK's voting powers in the IMF and world bank have long needed reductions, its ridiculous and unfair for a country to have influence disproportionate to their economy
Scotland doesnt want to store UK's nukes.

UK has nowhere to store their nukes.

What will they do? Best hand them over to us.

[StephHamann]

Scotland doesnt want to store UK's nukes.

UK has nowhere to store their nukes.

What will they do? Best hand them over to us.

nuke the middle east :rockon:

[MavsSuperFan]

Scotland doesnt want to store UK's nukes.

UK has nowhere to store their nukes.

What will they do? Best hand them over to us.
I think that is the back up plan. Also i think we would buy them, we dont need handouts

[KingJames99]

Voted yes about an hour ago:rockon:

[sweggeh]

Voted yes about an hour ago:rockon:

Hope you will be happy when your garbage country goes to shit.

[MavsSuperFan]

Hope you will be happy when your garbage country goes to shit.
Scotland will be fine, North Sea oil will easily power their economy. Im just surprised a country like england would allow such a resource rich area to break away.

North western europe has zero military threats

[Nick Young]

Voted yes about an hour ago:rockon:
Well done. FREEDOM ON THE WAY. UK just mad as hell you taking all their oil+freedom.

Dont worry mang, dont let these UK politicos scare you, being free from their tyranny is awesome. You guys have a great chance at becoming the English speaking Norway.

Tourism, salmon, whisky and oil, all good industries to have a hand in.

Be careful though, all of the English papers are under the impression that they will have 80% of YOUR OIL when you secede. England wants to ignore Geneva conventions, dont let it happen.


THE BRUCE IS LOOSE. FREEDOM ON THE WAY:rockon:

[KingJames99]

Hope you will be happy when your garbage country goes to shit.

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/5b/5b7e0fdd39178dc8d4148618607fc96fb8908a1ea62c041196 30f50f349c4ce1.jpg]

[Nick Young]

Scotland will be fine, North Sea oil will easily power their economy. Im just surprised a country like england would allow such a resource rich area to break away.

North western europe has zero military threats
UK are the ones who will lose the most here. The pound will crash (good for me and my $$$:lol ), they have nowhere to store their nukes because Scotland doesn't want them and they lose basically ALL of their oil production.

Scotland has a chance to become like Norway. UK, I honestly dunno, they can easily fall behind Scotland now and never catch up. That is why all these English are so butthurt and insecure about Scottish independence all of a sudden.


LET THEM BE FREE

[KingBeasley08]

For reference, in 1914, the British Empire had control of Canada, India, South Africa, and Australia.






Now, they might lose Scotland :lol :lol :lol

[KingJames99]

Would be surprised if it's a no just about everyone i have asked is voting yes.

[Nick Young]

I was in Glasgow a few weeks ago and everyone I talked to was voting Yes too. I am sure it is gonna happen. Dunno where all the No voters could possibly be.
:cheers:
You guys will do alright! HAPPY FOR YOUR INCOMING FREEDOM

[KingJames99]

The turnout has been amazing a polling station in Falkirk closed early at 4 after a 100% turnout :bowdown:

[sweggeh]

If it ends up being a No, which is very possible with how close the polls are, I am gonna laugh so ****in hard.

[Nick Young]

The turnout has been amazing a polling station in Falkirk closed early at 4 after a 100% turnout :bowdown:
Wallace will be avenged! This is awesome:banana: :banana: :banana:

[StephHamann]

Voted yes about an hour ago:rockon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLCEUpIg8rE

[MavsSuperFan]

For reference, in 1914, the British Empire had control of Canada, India, South Africa, and Australia.






Now, they might lose Scotland :lol :lol :lol
without scotland you cant even call them britain anymore :lol :lol

Seriously I am amazed that the UK's central government would not militarily force Scotland to stay in the Union or at least secure all of the north sea oil and their nuclear submarine base.

Eg. you can be independent but we are stealing the oil and we will hold on to the sub base.


Eg. the US still operates the Guantanamo Bay Naval Base, decades after Cuba fell to the communists. We operate this base against cuba's wishes and are basically occupying their land. (eg marines and warships on the base are ready to defend it against any cuban attack)

I am amazed that the UK just wouldnt do that with their nuclear submarine base.

[sweggeh]

If Scotland wants to go, they have the right to do so. I just firmly believe they are making a terrible decision for everyone involved in the UK. If they go we might aswell break off Northern Ireland and Wales too and go solo.

[Nick Young]

If Scotland wants to go, they have the right to do so. I just firmly believe they are making a terrible decision for everyone involved in the UK. If they go we might aswell break off Northern Ireland and Wales too and go solo.
They are making a good decision for themselves, a bad decion for England, but obviously they feel you guys have taken them for granted for too long. All English people I've talked to since I been here make fun of Scotland and say its useless and abit of a joke, now they leaving and you all saying England has always done so much to Scotland and that they owe you:roll:

Scotland will have all the oil so powerful nations will want to be their friends. If UK tries to take their base and north sea Oil, USA should defend Scotlands back IMO, otherwise the Russians will just move in. UK knows better then to make a military move vs Scotland. That would be a truly desperate action.

[KingJames99]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0flxQCmb5oY

:roll:

[Nick Young]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0flxQCmb5oY

:roll:
:banana: :banana: :banana:

[MavsSuperFan]

If Scotland wants to go, they have the right to do so. I just firmly believe they are making a terrible decision for everyone involved in the UK. If they go we might aswell break off Northern Ireland and Wales too and go solo.
The only way this is a bad decision for Scotland is if England attacks them or steals the north sea oil reserves.

Scotland has massive natural resources propotional to its population.


Approximately 90% of the United Kingdom's North Sea oil fields are located in Scottish territorial waters. The tax revenue generated from an offshore site is not counted within the nation or region nearest to it, but is instead allocated to the UK Continental Shelf. The revenue from North Sea oil has been used to support current expenditure, rather than creating a sovereign oil fund.[216][217] The SNP believes that a portion of the revenues should be invested in a sovereign oil fund. The Scottish government, citing industry regulator Oil and Gas UK, estimated in Scotland's Future that there were 24 billion barrels of oil equivalent (boe) remaining to be extracted.[218] Sir Ian Wood, founder of oil services company Wood Group, said in August 2014 that he believed there were between 15 and 16.5 billion boe and that the impact from declining production would be felt by 2030.[218] In September 2014, an investigation by industry recruitment website Oil and Gas People stated that there were extensive oil reserves to the west of the Western Isles and Shetland.[219] The report anticipated that the region would be developed within the next 10 years because of improvements in drilling technology, rig design and surveying.[

Scotland is also very anti nuclear weapons. UK currently only has 4 Ohio class nuclear submarines armed with the US designed trident 3 nuclear missile.

America has allowed our ally to possess the ohio class sub and our trident missiles.

All 4 ohio class subs are based in scotland. Scotland's prospective government has already guaranteed to the people of scotland (who hate nuclear weapons) that scotland will be a nuclear free zone should they achieve independence.

There is no way england could possibly construct a base capable of supporting and maintaining Ohio class subs and trident missiles in a short time frame. England will be forced to sell the 4 ohio class subs and their nuclear weapons back to america.

Scotland will be fine, they will be better off with 90% of the revenues from north sea oil going to them.

Unless England steals control of the north sea oil reserves and forces control of the sub base militarily, they will lose out.

[KingJames99]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX6w_-QMH3E

Now we are free.

:cry:

[Nick Young]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX6w_-QMH3E

Now we are free.

:cry:
This is a beautiful moment in history:bowdown:

The dream of the Bruce and the Wallace are finally being realized:cry: :cry: Brings tears of joy to my eyes. I am happy for you guys. Us Americans got your backs dawg, just holler if you need any advice on what it's like to be truly free from English tyranny:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

[Nick Young]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEOOZDbMrgE
This movie takes on a whole new meaning:banana: :banana: :banana:

[Nick Young]

O man they need to make a historically accurate remake of braveheart with Ewan McGregor as William Wallace and Gerrard Butler as Robert the Bruce:rockon: :rockon: :rockon:

[RagaZ]

54-46.

Rule, Britannia! :pimp:

[KyleKong]

The King of Scotland was the one who inherited the throne of England thus creating the United Kingdom.

And ya'll bitches want 'independence' :rolleyes:

[Nick Young]

54-46.

Rule, Britannia! :pimp:
NOOO! Is that the final vote? SHEEEIT! Bloody Scots afraid of riding the freedom train! The Bruce would be ashamed!

[Nick Young]

goddamn it Scotland! Still using paper ballots! Didn't they learn from Florida?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-29130277

Some shit will go wrong I predict:facepalm

[KingJames99]

NOOO! Is that the final vote? SHEEEIT! Bloody Scots afraid of riding the freedom train! The Bruce would be ashamed!

Lol no thats just another bs poll 0 of the 32 results have come in i think they will start around 2am. The final result wont be in till 6am as far as i know.

[Nick Young]

DAMN YOU SCOTS! The Bruce would be ashamed!

According to BBC atleast, things look bleak for Yes
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-29130277

54% for No.

Glasgow needs to be a comfortable yes win and so far apparently it is 50/50.

Unless BBC is lying, whcih dont think they are, BLOODY SCOTS ARE DIGGING THEIR OWN GRAVE. THIS WAS YOUR CHANCE BROS!:facepalm :mad: :mad: :mad:

[KingBeasley08]

This was a sad day for freedom. Them older generation voting to stay in the UK :facepalm

[MavsSuperFan]

Good for the UK, guess the scare campaign worked on the scottish

Seemed to me that most scots wanted to leave but many were scared of uncertainty

[MavsSuperFan]

http://i.imgur.com/fihQzR3.png

[sweggeh]

Things are looking good.

Yes movement can suck a dick.

:banana:

[MavsSuperFan]

Things are looking good.

Yes movement can suck a dick.

:banana:
You english? why are you against Scottish independence?

[sweggeh]

You english? why are you against Scottish independence?

Yeah I am.

I love the UK, thats why. We have a good thing going here.

[Nick Young]

Hmm some screwy shit going on. Fire alarm forces balloteers from evacuating building in Dundee. WHY NOT JUST USE COMPUTER POLLING

[MavsSuperFan]

Yeah I am.

I love the UK, thats why. We have a good thing going here.
Well england sure does.

UK control of north sea gas reserves and forced placement of nuclear weapons in scotland.

Congrats england

[NumberSix]

without scotland you cant even call them britain anymore :lol :lol
:no:

England + Wales = Britain (Roman province, Britannia). Also know as the Kingdom of England

Britain + Scotland = Kingdom of Great Britain (political term not to be confused with the geographic island of Great Britain)



If Scotland did leave the union, England and Wales still comprise the original "Britain" and it is still on the Island of Great Britain.

[MavsSuperFan]

county of Clackmannanshire has voted No

[MavsSuperFan]

:no:

England + Wales = Britain (Roman province, Britannia). Also know as the Kingdom of England

Britain + Scotland = Kingdom of Great Britain (political term not to be confused with the geographic island of Great Britain)



If Scotland did leave the union, England and Wales still comprise the original "Britain" and it is still on the Island of Great Britain.
I thought the whole island was referred to as Britain, ok ill take your word for it.

[NumberSix]

I thought the whole island was referred to as Britain, ok ill take your word for it.
The largest island of the British Isles is Great Britain. The Kingdom of Great Britain also has many other islands.

The island of Great Britain has 3 countries on it, but not the entirety of them. All 3 countries (England, Scotland, Wales) have other islands.

[MavsSuperFan]

The largest island of the British Isles is Great Britain. The Kingdom of Great Britain also has many other islands.

The island of Great Britain has 3 countries on it, but not the entirety of them. All 3 countries (England, Scotland, Wales) have other islands.
I know that, I thought the island with scotland and england and wales was called britain.

I didnt realize britain and wales alone were enough to be called britain, I always thought the island of britain referred to scotland, england and wales. I didnt know that wales and england were enough to constitute britain.

Northern Ireland and the republic of ireland make up the island of ireland

[Nick Young]

Scotland is really choking here:facepalm

William Wallace looking down from heaven with tears in his eyes. This was Scotlands last ever chance for Freedom.

bloody Stockholm Syndrome smack heads:facepalm
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Observer/Pix/pictures/2009/8/27/1251371539912/The-cast-of-Trainspotting-001.jpg

[StephHamann]

Most young people vote for yes, its the old brainwashed 1968 generation that likes to be ruled from a central government communist style

[NumberSix]

I know that, I thought the island with scotland and england and wales was called britain.

I didnt realize britain and wales alone were enough to be called britain, I always thought the island of britain referred to scotland, england and wales. I didnt know that wales and england were enough to constitute britain.

Northern Ireland and the republic of ireland make up the island of ireland
There's no island of Britain. The island is called "Great Britain" which has the MAJORITY of England, Scotland and Wales on it, but not the entirety.


Here's a little info. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5GTPIeiwq4

[KingJames99]

Another no :facepalm still along way to go ill start to get worried after a few more votes if nothing changes.

[Nick Young]

Glasgow only 75% turnout, that was the heart of the Yes movement!

After tonight, Stockholm Syndrome will be renamed to Scotland Syndrome.

[Trollsmasher]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bx2pK1XCIAEp8HK.jpg

it's rigged anyway

[Nick Young]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bx2pK1XCIAEp8HK.jpg

it's rigged anyway
There is some dodgy stuff going on but I dont think UK will rig an election.

[9erempiree]

That is some primitive way to vote.

Reminds me of Florida with the "hanging chads". You would think something as important as this would be setup more efficiently.

[MavsSuperFan]

There's no island of Britain. The island is called "Great Britain" which has the MAJORITY of England, Scotland and Wales on it, but not the entirety.


Here's a little info. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5GTPIeiwq4
The video never answered if wales and england alone is referred to as britain

I always thought you need scotland, england and wales to refer to it as britain

[MavsSuperFan]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bx2pK1XCIAEp8HK.jpg

it's rigged anyway
:lol That is so damning I think it might be a photoshop

[Trollsmasher]

:lol That is so damning I think it might be a photoshop
http://s27.postimg.org/q4lk2kr37/1411085846740.png

[Nick Young]

:lol That is so damning I think it might be a photoshop
EDIT: LOL just saw.

[NumberSix]

The video never answered if wales and england alone is referred to as britain
There is no "Britain". It doesn't exist anymore. It's just used as a kind of slang term these days.

"Britannia" as it was called in Latin was the land that today is England and Wales. Scotland's Latin name was "Caledonia". Britannia was a province of the Roman Empire. Caledonia was not.

This video is dumb, but it's has the history
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=475sbcUj9t4



I always thought you need scotland, england and wales to refer to it as britain

Britain =/= Great Britain

[MavsSuperFan]

http://s27.postimg.org/q4lk2kr37/1411085846740.png
wow, either they are incompetent, or they are rigging this for a no vote

[MavsSuperFan]

There is no "Britain". It doesn't exist anymore. It's just used as a kind of slang term these days.

"Britannia" as it was called in Latin was the land that today is England and Wales. Scotland's Latin name was "Caledonia". Britannia was a province of the Roman Empire. Caledonia was not.

This video is dumb, but it's has the history
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=475sbcUj9t4
So they would have had to come up with a new name. Britain = great britain
perhaps instead of great britain, little britain :lol

Anyways it seems the NO vote is winning

[JohnFreeman]

I doubt they would rig the voting. Most people in England couldn't care less

[MavsSuperFan]

I doubt they would rig the voting. Most people in England couldn't care less
The powerful people care

[MavsSuperFan]

There is no "Britain". It doesn't exist anymore. It's just used as a kind of slang term these days.

"Britannia" as it was called in Latin was the land that today is England and Wales. Scotland's Latin name was "Caledonia". Britannia was a province of the Roman Empire. Caledonia was not.

This video is dumb, but it's has the history
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=475sbcUj9t4




Britain =/= Great Britain
Maybe I am wrong but I have always used the term interchangeably.

Eg America = US = USA = United states = United states of america

[fpliii]

Seems like it's a wrap, eh?

[NumberSix]

So they would have had to come up with a new name. Britain = great britain
:facepalm

No.


Think of it like this......


Britain = America
GREAT Britain = NORTH America

"America" and "North America" both contain the word "America" but they are different things. You're getting confused by similar names.

[KingBeasley08]

Scotland could have been a small but happy country like its Nordic neighbors. Instead they wanna stick with the UK and play ball with the big kids. Alright, now let's kill those ISIS fckers in the Middle East

[MavsSuperFan]

:facepalm

No.


Think of it like this......


Britain = America
GREAT Britain = NORTH America

"America" and "North America" both contain the word "America" but they are different things. You're getting confused by similar names.
So britain is often used to refer to only england and wales?

I thought it was just shorthand for great britain, my bad

[JohnFreeman]

So britain is often used to refer to only england and wales?

I thought it was just shorthand for great britain, my bad
Great Britain is Scotland, Wales and England. Britain is Wales and England

[MavsSuperFan]

Great Britain is Scotland, Wales and England. Britain is Wales and England
did not know that, thank you

[Nick Young]

this is just embarrassing, even the people who speak Scottish as the primary language voting No:facepalm These people have no pride.

[LeJohn Janes]

did not know that, thank you
That's because it is wrong.

The Kingdom of England is comprised of England and Wales and the Kingdom of Scotland is just Scotland. These two kingdoms signed the act of Union in 1707.

The term britain can refer to either Great Britain or the United Kingdom. It was used on official documents for a while in place of the term United Kingdom.

The United Kingdom is Great Britain (Scotland, Wales, England and Northern Ireland)

Great Britain is Scotland, Wales and England.

[NumberSix]

So britain is often used to refer to only england and wales?

I thought it was just shorthand for great britain, my bad
It is.

That's where the confusion is. Constant reusing of the same words.

Someone in Canada is North American. A Canadian could call themselves "American" meaning short form of "North American", but they wouldn't mean they are American as in, USA.



Britain USED to be a thing. England+Wales USED to be "Britain". When people say "Britain", they're almost always just shortening "Great Britain".

Back to the original point......

If Scotland left, they WOULD still be able to call themselves "Britain", because regardless of political union or not "Britain" when used as short for "Great Britain" is a geographical term, NOT a political term unless you're specifically talking about the Kingdom of Great Britain which doesn't exist anymore.

[MavsSuperFan]

That's because it is wrong.

The Kingdom of England is comprised of England and Wales and the Kingdom of Scotland is just Scotland. These two kingdoms signed the act of Union in 1707.

The term britain can refer to either Great Britain or the United Kingdom. It was used on official documents for a while in place of the term United Kingdom.

The United Kingdom is Great Britain (Scotland, Wales, England and Northern Ireland)

Great Britain is Scotland, Wales and England.
This is what I always thought.

[LeJohn Janes]

As a Scottish man who voted Yes, is there any chance I can come live in America or Canada?

My fellow countrymen so far are showing themselves to be cowardly and subservient. Horrible results so far.

I'm hoping for a Ray Allen '3' in a couple of hours.

[MavsSuperFan]

It is.

That's where the confusion is. Constant reusing of the same words.

Someone in Canada is North American. A Canadian could call themselves "American" meaning short form of "North American", but they wouldn't mean they are American as in, USA.



Britain USED to be a thing. England+Wales USED to be "Britain". When people say "Britain", they're almost always just shortening "Great Britain".

Back to the original point......

If Scotland left, they WOULD still be able to call themselves "Britain", because regardless of political union or not "Britain" when used as short for "Great Britain" is a geographical term, NOT a political term unless you're specifically talking about the Kingdom of Great Britain which doesn't exist anymore.
So before 1707, britain referred to just wales and england?

I have always just used britain cause im too lazy to say great britain

Someone in Canada is North American. A Canadian could call themselves "American" meaning short form of "North American", but they wouldn't mean they are American as in, USA.

American strongly conjures the idea of a person in/from the united states

[MavsSuperFan]

As a Scottish man who voted Yes, is there any chance I can come live in America or Canada?

My fellow countrymen so far are showing themselves to be cowardly and subservient. Horrible results so far.

I'm hoping for a Ray Allen '3' in a couple of hours.
If you have money or are well educated with technical skills disable for employment, the immigration process to america is reasonably easy from what I have heard.

If you have no money or skills, the immigration process is onerous

[NumberSix]

That's because it is wrong.

The Kingdom of England is comprised of England and Wales and the Kingdom of Scotland is just Scotland. These two kingdoms signed the act of Union in 1707.
It's actually not wrong.

Before there was "England, Wales & Scotland", there was only "Britain and Scotland".

[Inactive]

So before 1707, britain referred to just wales and england?

I have always just used britain cause im too lazy to say great britain


American strongly conjures the idea of a person in the united statesI'm pretty sure Wales and England were referred to as The Kingdom of England. Unless you go back to the days of Roman occupation.

Britain = Great Britain. Great was added on to distinguish it from Brittany, and generally make it clear that you're referring to the big island. Brittany and Britain are both "Bretagne" in French.

[NumberSix]

So before 1707, britain referred to just wales and england?
Without getting into the history of all the other kingdoms that came in went, yes.

From Roman times and a while after, Scotland was it's own separate thing and the rest was "Britain".

I have always just used britain cause im too lazy to say great britain
That's fine. That's an accurate use of "Britain". But it does have other meanings. This area has a history of thousands of years where words like "Britain" and "British" are reused over and over again to mean different things.

[MavsSuperFan]

I'm pretty sure Wales and England were referred to as The Kingdom of England. Unless you go back to the days of Roman occupation.

Britain = Great Britain. Great was added on to distinguish it from Brittany, and generally make it clear that you're referring to the big island. Brittany and Britain are both "Bretagne" in French.
that is what I always thought.

Didnt know britain referred to england and wales, as some are saying

[NumberSix]

I'm pretty sure Wales and England were referred to as The Kingdom of England. Unless you go back to the days of Roman occupation.

Britain = Great Britain. Great was added on to distinguish it from Brittany, and generally make it clear that you're referring to the big island. Brittany and Britain are both "Bretagne" in French.
:facepalm


Brittany is in France.

[Inactive]

:facepalm


Brittany is in France.And?

[LeJohn Janes]

It's actually not wrong.

Before there was "England, Wales & Scotland", there was only "Britain and Scotland".
Britain is the island comprising Scotland, England and Wales.

Roman Britain is the only time England and Wales would have been a part of a Britain which did not include Scotland and that would be 'roman britain'.

Happy to be proven wrong though.

[Nick Young]

Scotland Syndrome.

[MavsSuperFan]

The UK as we know it though is over.

Westminster will have to give Edinburgh more powers. Eg control of NHS, taxation powers, and control of education.

Northern Ireland and wales will probably start wondering why scotland gets all of these new powers and they dont.

They will demand similar powers (probably wont be as effective as they are not as viable as scotland, which has 90% of the north sea oil)

English people will be mad that MPs from scotland have influence on their education, taxation and other issues, while the reverse is not true.

[NumberSix]

Britain is the island comprising Scotland, England and Wales.

Roman Britain is the only time England and Wales would have been a part of a Britain which did not include Scotland and that would be 'roman britain'.

Happy to be proven wrong though.
I'm going to use Latin words to try to avoid confusion.

"Britain" is not an Island. "Great Britain" is the Island. It is often called "Britain" for short, but that is a slang term. That slang term also happens to be the same word that a place that used to exist was called. That place that used to exist called "Britain" was called "Britannia" by Latin speakers. The part of the Island that we call "Scotland" was called "Caledonia" by Latin speakers. The Island we call "Ireland" was called "Hibernia" by Latin speakers.

The Island of Great Britain used to have 2 parts. Britannia (Britain) and Caledonia (Scotland).

https://lindipendentismonelmondo.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/caledonia.gif

[Inactive]

I'm going to use Latin words to try to avoid confusion.

"Britain" is not an Island. "Great Britain" is the Island. It is often called "Britain" for short, but that is a slang term. That slang term also happens to be the same word that a place that used to exist was called. That place that used to exist called "Britain" was called "Britannia" by Latin speakers. The part of the Island that we call "Scotland" was called "Caledonia" by Latin speakers. The Island we call "Ireland" was called "Hibernia" by Latin speakers.

The Island of Great Britain used to have 2 parts. Britannia (Britain) and Caledonia (Scotland). Do you have any examples of the word Britain being used to refer only to the lands south of Hadrian's Wall, post Anglo-Saxon invasion/migration?

[Nick Young]

http://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130306110061/video-game-championship-wrestling/images/9/94/Daniel_Bryan_YES.gif

http://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130306110061/video-game-championship-wrestling/images/9/94/Daniel_Bryan_YES.gif

http://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130306110061/video-game-championship-wrestling/images/9/94/Daniel_Bryan_YES.gif

[MavsSuperFan]

http://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130306110061/video-game-championship-wrestling/images/9/94/Daniel_Bryan_YES.gif

http://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130306110061/video-game-championship-wrestling/images/9/94/Daniel_Bryan_YES.gif

http://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130306110061/video-game-championship-wrestling/images/9/94/Daniel_Bryan_YES.gif
give up nick,

the UK lives
Scotland is still under the control of london

[Nick Young]

If Glasgow has a big win for Yes, the way things are going Scotland has a chance.:banana: :banana: :banana:
http://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130306110061/video-game-championship-wrestling/images/9/94/Daniel_Bryan_YES.gif

[LeJohn Janes]

NumberSix- I was well aware of the caledonia and hibernia namings but the brittania for Wales and England had escaped my knowledge. Do you have any links where I could do further reading on this?


Dundee brings us back in to it! Lets go SCOTLAND! :rockon:

[Nick Young]

I dont understand why those Western islands where English is the second language behind Scottish voted No. What a traitorous action. Glasgow gonna pull through strong just watch.

[KingJames99]

If Glasgow has a big win for Yes, the way things are going Scotland has a chance.:banana: :banana: :banana:
http://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130306110061/video-game-championship-wrestling/images/9/94/Daniel_Bryan_YES.gif

This is what im banking on just keep it close but it appears to be a close lead for yes i think the turnout is what will really hurt us in glasgow.

[LeJohn Janes]

This is what im banking on but it appears to be a close lead for yes i think the turnout is what will really hurt us in glasgow.
Yep.

A quarter couldn't be bothered to vote.

Absolute fannies.

[NumberSix]

Do you have any examples of the word Britain being used to refer only to the lands south of Hadrian's Wall, post Anglo-Saxon invasion/migration?
We're talking about a historical term. "Britain" doesn't have any actual meaning, geographic or political, outside of the historical and slang for shortening "Great Britain" which itself is blurry. "Great Britain" is both a geographic term for the island and a political term for the historic "Kingdom of Great Britain" which is still kind of a thing but also isn't.

[KingJames99]

YES YES YES

FREEDOM :bowdown:

[NumberSix]

NumberSix- I was well aware of the caledonia and hibernia namings but the brittania for Wales and England had escaped my knowledge. Do you have any links where I could do further reading on this?


Dundee brings us back in to it! Lets go SCOTLAND! :rockon:
To clarify....

The land that NOW is England and Wales. Both of which did not exist at the time.

[LeJohn Janes]

West Dumbartonshire goes YES!


COME ON!

[Nick Young]

Freedom on the way!
http://i.imgur.com/flRWu.gif

[KingJames99]

Midlothian :facepalm

[Nick Young]

Midlothian traitors:mad:

[KingJames99]

http://cdn.meme.li/instances/51785673.jpg

[NumberSix]

east lothian: no

[KingJames99]

**** east lothian.

[Nick Young]

Yo Scottish people WTF is wrong with these Lothian assholes?

STIRLING IS WALLACES STOMPING GROUNDS-GO ON!

[NumberSix]

Stirling: no

[KingBeasley08]

Dundee :banana: :banana: :banana:


Come on Glasgow!! FOR FREEDOM :rockon:


wtf is with these other territories voting no

[Nick Young]

This is really embarrassing..Scotland's heart voting no....

That Scotland Syndrome:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Not even Glasgow can save them now.

[KingJames99]

:facepalm :banghead: :cry:

[NumberSix]

This is really embarrassing..Scotland's heart voting no....

That Scotland Syndrome:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Not even Glasgow can save them now.
Why do u want Scotland out of the UK so bad?

[Nick Young]

I can't believe the land of the Guardian of Scotland, the great Wallace himself voted 60/40 no, wtf is that!

[Nick Young]

Why do u want Scotland out of the UK so bad?
You know me bro. Im all about the freedom.

Also I just want to see what happens to be honest. Im all about change to the status quo.

[MavsSuperFan]

Region Name Yes No Result
Aberdeen City
Aberdeenshire
Angus
Argyll & Bute
Clackmannanshire 46.2% 53.8% NO
Comhairle nan Eilean Siar 46.6% 53.4% NO
Dumfries & Galloway
Dundee City 57.35% 42.65% YES
East Ayrshire
East Dunbartonshire
East Lothian
East Renfrewshire
Edinburgh
Falkirk
Fife
Glasgow
Highland
Inverclyde 49.9% 50.1% NO
Midlothian 43.7% 56.3% NO
Moray
North Ayrshire
North Lanarkshire
Orkney Islands 32.8% 67.2% NO
Perth & Kinross
Renfrewshire 47.2% 52.8% NO
Scottish Borders
Shetland Islands 36.3% 63.7% NO
South Ayrshire
South Lanarkshire
Stirling
West Dunbartonshire 54.0% 46.0% YES
West Lothian

No votes are winning
Shetland islands are huge fans of the UK

[KingBeasley08]

It's done now. A sad day for freedom everywhere. Gonna drink scotch tonight in tribute to the 45% that stood up for what they believed in

[Nick Young]

Aberdeen, Glasgow and Edinburough can still swing it I think. Im thinking all these northern places will vote Yes as well.

Im staying up for this, it's awesome.

[NumberSix]

You know me bro. Im all about the freedom.

Also I just want to see what happens to be honest. Im all about change to the status quo.
http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/01645/SNN3102UK---_1645827a.jpg

[KingJames99]

Aberdeen, Glasgow and Edinburough can still swing it I think. Im thinking all these northern places will vote Yes as well.

Im staying up for this, it's awesome.

Ill go with a yes for glasgow and a no for edinburgh and prolly aberdeen aswell.

[gts]

Does anyone know off hand what the voting district is for Iverness? It's up in the north east Don't go crazy looking it up.. just wondering out of curiosity

[KingJames99]

It's over.

[KingBeasley08]

My condolences to the Scottish who voted Yes. You have many traitors amongst your people

[Nick Young]

Wow-crushing. It feels like its over. All of these royalist treasonous scums. Not even Glasgow can save this country of traitors.

WHAT WOULD THE BRUCE THINK?

[MavsSuperFan]

http://www.eastsidepatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/betrayal-in-braveheart-o.gif
http://33.media.tumblr.com/7012ec2f1af9200e37574a442c5f9e76/tumblr_mu9s5ktRuF1sn0mkdo1_500.gif

[Nick Young]

http://oi57.tinypic.com/333lwmu.jpg

[NumberSix]

The UK is staying united. Let's see what we can do about getting the empire back together.

[Nick Young]

The UK is staying united. Let's see what we can do about getting the empire back together.
Are you from the UK? Which part?:eek:

[KingBeasley08]

The UK is staying united. Let's see what we can do about getting the empire back together.
UK never getting that empire back. That was an end of an era. The USA runs the world now

[Nick Young]

This SNP guy on BBC is speaking truth, Braveheart reincarnated. Hope this badass starts a geurilla revolution.

[NumberSix]

UK never getting that empire back. That was an end of an era. The USA runs the world now
Yeah, but in 50 years, the USA will be Mexico part 2.

[Nick Young]

Are they setting it up so Glasgow goes last for dramatic effect?

[LeJohn Janes]

Are they setting it up so Glasgow goes last for dramatic effect?
Won't make a big enough difference any more.

It's over.

A nation of awful, subservient bastards. :(

[Nick Young]

Won't make a big enough difference any more.

It's over.

A nation of awful, subservient bastards. :(
Who is this SNP guy on BBC on the panel? vote to make him your next leader.

[KingBeasley08]

Yeah, but in 50 years, the USA will be Mexico part 2.
Even so, the military industrial complex will keep running until Mother Nature intervenes. Only way we get knocked out of the top spot is if a supervolcano goes off or a meteor hits the US

[gts]

Are they setting it up so Glasgow goes last for dramatic effect?

Glasgow votes yes but has poorest voter turnout so far at 74%

[BlackWhiteGreen]

From a purely selfish point of view I'm delighted, we should see a nice rebound in the economy and obviously there won't be any negative hit on the rest of Britain.

I am really surprised they voted no though. I don't see how the coalition can even get close to appeasing the Scottish without pissing off the rest of the UK... Is it worth hurting everyone for the sake of 4m?

[Nick Young]

Scotland will never get a chance for freedom like this again. Scotland choked.

[MavsSuperFan]

From a purely selfish point of view I'm delighted, we should see a nice rebound in the economy and obviously there won't be any negative hit on the rest of Britain.

I am really surprised they voted no though. I don't see how the coalition can even get close to appeasing the Scottish without pissing off the rest of the UK... Is it worth hurting everyone for the sake of 4m?
The UK as we know it is over.

Westminster will have to give Edinburgh more powers. Eg control of NHS, taxation powers, and control of education.

Northern Ireland and wales will probably start wondering why scotland gets all of these new powers and they dont.

They will demand similar powers (probably wont be as effective as they are not as viable as scotland, which has 90% of the north sea oil)

English people will be mad that MPs from scotland have influence on their education, taxation and other issues, while the reverse is not true.

Probably eventually scotland, wales, northern ireland and england will have their own parliaments and those MPs will meet in Westminster to vote and UK wide issues like national defense and your pension program.

Stuff like education, some taxation powers, local infrastructure, etc will be given to the scottish, welsh, northern irish and english parliaments.

Do you think something federal like that would happen? Would you support that?
basically let the MPs from england vote on england only issues and the same goes for MPs from the other regions.

Let all of their votes count for UK wide issues

[gts]

From a purely selfish point of view I'm delighted, we should see a nice rebound in the economy and obviously there won't be any negative hit on the rest of Britain.

I am really surprised they voted no though. I don't see how the coalition can even get close to appeasing the Scottish without pissing off the rest of the UK... Is it worth hurting everyone for the sake of 4m?


Kind of interesting reading the comments on BBC from a few political analysts in Scotland... they feel the voting percentages are playing out how many thought it would but not in the way they thought it would... political affiliation seems to be playing less of a role than anticipated while other influences played a larger part than anticipated...

here's one comment

Prof Charlie Jeffrey said party loyalties do not seem to have mattered in the vote.

He said: "We have seen results in Labour strongholds like Glasgow and North Lanarkshire where there has been a "Yes" vote, and in SNP strongholds like Angus and Perthshire there has been a "No" vote.
"What we have found is a very strong correlation between the Yes vote and a higher level of unemployment.
"But also a slightly less strong relationship between the more British you feel the less likely you are to vote "Yes".
"These seem to be more significant influences than political party in the outcome."


if true it will be interesting over the next few years to see how this mindset effects the overall winds of change... things will obviously change, you don't come this close to the brink and walk it back and expect the status quo to remain in place...

this maybe the best results? Scotland remains part of the UK but makes enough noise that people have to pay attention

[NumberSix]

English people will be mad that MPs from scotland have influence on their education, taxation and other issues, while the reverse is not true.
That's already the case. Wales, Scotland and N.Ireland get to vote on English laws while England can't vote on theirs.

[gts]

Here was the one I was waiting for..

ARGYLL AND BUTE

Posted at 06:05
"No" wins by 37,143 to 26,324.
That is 58.5% for "No" and 41.5% for "Yes".
Total votes was 63,467. Turnout was 88.1%

This is the Council where the Nukes and Submarines are kept...

[gts]

Following the result in Fife, the official result is in. Scotland has voted No to independence.

[MavsSuperFan]

That's already the case. Wales, Scotland and N.Ireland get to vote on English laws while England can't vote on theirs.
well obviously because of demographics, england voting on their laws would basically be total control. It wouldnt be appropriate in 2014.

[dunksby]

So does that mean they get to attribute Scottish athletes' success to their own again?

[MMM]

The UK as we know it is over.

Westminster will have to give Edinburgh more powers. Eg control of NHS, taxation powers, and control of education.

Northern Ireland and wales will probably start wondering why scotland gets all of these new powers and they dont.

They will demand similar powers (probably wont be as effective as they are not as viable as scotland, which has 90% of the north sea oil)

English people will be mad that MPs from scotland have influence on their education, taxation and other issues, while the reverse is not true.

Probably eventually scotland, wales, northern ireland and england will have their own parliaments and those MPs will meet in Westminster to vote and UK wide issues like national defense and your pension program.

Stuff like education, some taxation powers, local infrastructure, etc will be given to the scottish, welsh, northern irish and english parliaments.

Do you think something federal like that would happen? Would you support that?
basically let the MPs from england vote on england only issues and the same goes for MPs from the other regions.

Let all of their votes count for UK wide issues

The local governments are the ones running the services so it would make sense for the power to be as close to the ground as possible. When did Americans started associating freedom, democracy, and governance with big centralized government.

[MavsSuperFan]

The local governments are the ones running the services so it would make sense for the power to be as close to the ground as possible. When did Americans started associating freedom, democracy, and governance with big centralized government.
nothing in the post said that

I was only saying UK is going to be radically different if they give more powers to the Scottish parliament, as to be fair then wales, northern Ireland and England deserve the same control without foreign votes counting.
I didnt say it would be less free or less democratic, just different

[NumberSix]

well obviously because of demographics, england voting on their laws would basically be total control. It wouldnt be appropriate in 2014.
It's not about demographics. It's that in addition to the UK parliament, there is a Scottish Parliament, Welsh and N.Irish "national assemblies" while England just doesn't have one.

It's like how in America how there is a federal government, but every state has a state government. There's a UK federal government, Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland all have their own "state governments", but England just doesn't have one. It's like if Texas just didn't have any state government.

[MavsSuperFan]

It's not about demographics. It's that in addition to the UK parliament, there is a Scottish Parliament, Welsh and N.Irish "national assemblies" while England just doesn't have one.

It's like how in America how there is a federal government, but every state has a state government. There's a UK federal government, Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland all have their own "state governments", but England just doesn't have one. It's like if Texas just didn't have any state government.
Right, but england needs less protection than the others, because of its population, Tories can take control, off of english votes

[MMM]

nothing in the post said that

I was only saying UK is going to be radically different if they give more powers to the Scottish parliament, as to be fair then wales, northern Ireland and England deserve the same control without foreign votes counting.
I didnt say it would be less free or less democratic, just different

Yeah, sorry think I was just blending a few posters together but I think from the past you've mentioned that you support centralized powers as well.

Also got vexed at all the talk about freedom in this thread yet a few weeks back there was a thread about the electoral college that displayed gross ignorance of how democracy works

[MavsSuperFan]

Yeah, sorry think I was just blending a few posters together but I think from the past you've mentioned that you support centralized powers as well.

Also got vexed at all the talk about freedom in this thread yet a few weeks back there was a thread about the electoral college that displayed gross ignorance of how democracy works
I have never said that scotland being part of the UK was an infringement on its freedom.
I have posted some images from the historically inaccurate film braveheart to amuse myself

I do support centralized power, I just think its more efficient and effective. Niche issues of a particular region can be damaging to the nation imo. In america I dislike the possibility that some states might teach intelligent design, I dislike some how discrimination against LGBT is allowed in many states. Most of the time in America I find a centralized government would be more to my liking.

Funding individual school districts via property taxes also perpetuates poverty imo.
I wouldnt describe decentralized power as less free though

[NumberSix]

I have never said that scotland being part of the UK was an infringement on its freedom.
I have posted some images from the historically inaccurate film braveheart to amuse myself

I do support centralized power, I just think its more efficient and effective. Niche issues of a particular region can be damaging to the nation imo. In america I dislike the possibility that same states might teach intelligent design.

I wouldnt describe decentralized power as less free though
Why? :wtf:

You're from Texas, right? Aren't you glad Texas has it's own state government? Don't you think it's better than every state having the exact same laws? Maybe people in Texas have different interests and preferences than people in Oregon.

[MavsSuperFan]

Why? :wtf:

You're from Texas, right? Aren't you glad Texas has it's own state government? Don't you think it's better than every state having the exact same laws? Maybe people in Texas have different interests and preferences than people in Oregon.
I gave you reasons why. I often find that somethings shouldnt be up for debate. Eg. civil rights of americans, educational standards, etc

Obviously decentralized power would be better for Texas as it is sufficient
In fact Texas would probably benefit from secession. It has a population of over 26 million people (more than a lot of countries)

It would be the 40th largest country in the world by land size

in terms of economy

It would be the 14th largest economy in the world, bigger than South Korea or the Netherlands, and roughly equivalent to two Switzerlands.

Its gross domestic product of $1.2 trillion, or 8 percent of the entire U.S. GDP, placed it just behind Spain, and one notch above its neighbor Mexico, in the 2011 rankings compiled by the International Monetary Fund.


o power all of this, Texas has a lot of oil, producing about 2 million barrels per day.

http://i.imgur.com/Hl9JQ1m.png
texas is one of the few states that pays more in federal taxes than it receives in federal spending.

Texas could take the money it spends on the federal government as spend it on itself to pay for stuff the federal government would have. But places like texas and scotland would stop bitiching for independence if they werent solvent.

Eg. you will never hear Mississippi ask for independence as it is heavily reliant on federal dollars.

States like texas help pay for the states that have no real economy and leech off of the states that do

[pinhead]

Well done to Scotland in making the only choice. I can't wait to see Andy Murray now try and backtrack on his comments :roll: :roll:

Rule Britannia.

[sweggeh]

Scotland made the right choice. Your not as dumb as you look Scots.

[Andrew Wiggins]

Scotland made the right choice. Your not as dumb as you look Scots.

the irony

[Godzuki]

couldn't they still vote to do this at any point in the future especially during a EU financial crisis? they seem pretty split so i can see one side going nuts when something bad happens to the EU that affects them. its just like Republicans do with domestic policies they don't like, and threaten to secede or shit like that.

[niko]

Any state that wants independence should be allowed to vote on it. And then ten seconds later let's send in the army (since they'd have none) and stomp them into the freaking ground and annex them.

Everything is so intertwined, this "texas should be independent" makes no sense. Anyone who ever mentions that should be slapped, and if the secede sentence contains the word Obama in it they should be slapped twice.

Note NY never talks about secession. Because we're not ignorant hillbillies.

[Jailblazers7]

Any state that wants independence should be allowed to vote on it. And then ten seconds later let's send in the army (since they'd have none) and stomp them into the freaking ground and annex them.

Everything is so intertwined, this "texas should be independent" makes no sense. Anyone who ever mentions that should be slapped, and if the secede sentence contains the word Obama in it they should be slapped twice.

Note NY never talks about secession. Because we're not ignorant hillbillies.

Yeah, I don't think Texans who support independence realize what a giant pain it would be. Suddenly they'd be paying international tariffs and have quotas enforced on their goods just to trade with the US, they'd be forced to institute taxes to pay for infrastructure that has always been built/maintained at the federal level, suddenly it has to supply and fund it's own army, etc. Texas is huge with a booming economy but separating yourself from the most lucrative free trade market in the world would be crazy.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

couldn't they still vote to do this at any point in the future especially during a EU financial crisis? they seem pretty split so i can see one side going nuts when something bad happens to the EU that affects them. its just like Republicans do with domestic policies they don't like, and threaten to secede or shit like that.

Cameron or any other leader won't just let them vote whenever they want. I don't know any non-British Scot who wants them to leave, apart from those idiots who wish they had the chance to leave. Newsflash: it's not that hard to emigrate

[zoom17]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUR-HgAtwtg#t=34