People you didnt know were Muslim

[sweggeh]

We always focus on the lunatics, lets talk about the famous people a lot of us didnt know were Muslim.

DISCLAIMER: Alot of these people are varying levels of Muslims. Some are devout, others say they feel close with the religion and follow its general ideals but dont practice daily. Some also belong to different sects of Islam, like the 5 percenters, Nation of Islam, etc.

T-Pain
Akon
Mike Tyson
Shaquille O'Neal
Michael Jackson
Robin Van Persie
Busta Rhymes
Nicholas Anelka
Frank Ribery
Kolo Toure
Yaya Toure
Lupe Fiasco
Thierry Henry
Ice Cube
Napoleon (from 2pacs group outlawz)
Jermaine Jackson
Beanie Sigel
Dave Chappelle
Swiss Beatz
Big Daddy Kane
Rakim
Mos Def
Everlast
DJ Khaled
MC Ren
Scarface
Raekwon
Q-Tip
Snoop Dogg (was, but is rasta now)
Vinne Paz
Rima Fakih (Miss USA 2010)
Bernard Hopkins
Chamillionaire
Iman (old ass model)
Eve (from that tv show eve)
K-Rino
Ghostface Killah
Mesut Ozil
Karim Benzema
Zinedine Zidane
Common
Danny Williams (british boxer)
Chris Eubank (see above)
Samir Nasri
Ibrahim Afellay
Seydou Keita
Eric Abidal
Zayn Malik (that dude from one direction)

[Akrazotile]

Barack Hussein Obama

[MavsSuperFan]

We always focus on the lunatics, lets talk about the famous people a lot of us didnt know were Muslim.

DISCLAIMER: Alot of these people are varying levels of Muslims. Some are devout, others say they feel close with the religion and follow its general ideals but dont practice daily. Some also belong to different sects of Islam, like the 5 percenters, Nation of Islam, etc.

T-Pain
Akon
Mike Tyson
Shaquille O'Neal
Michael Jackson
Robin Van Persie
Busta Rhymes
Nicholas Anelka
Frank Ribery
Kolo Toure
Yaya Toure
Lupe Fiasco
Thierry Henry
Ice Cube
Napoleon (from 2pacs group outlawz)
Jermaine Jackson
Beanie Sigel
Dave Chappelle
Swiss Beatz
Big Daddy Kane
Rakim
Mos Def
Everlast
DJ Khaled
MC Ren
Scarface
Raekwon
Q-Tip
Snoop Dogg (was, but is rasta now)
Vinne Paz
Rima Fakih (Miss USA 2010)
Bernard Hopkins
Chamillionaire
Iman (old ass model)
Eve (from that tv show eve)
K-Rino
Ghostface Killah
Mesut Ozil
Karim Benzema
Zinedine Zidane
Common
Danny Williams (british boxer)
Chris Eubank (see above)
Samir Nasri
Ibrahim Afellay
Seydou Keita
Eric Abidal
Zayn Malik (that dude from one direction)
van persie is not a muslim, he just married one. to quote him

[QUOTE]That

[Budadiiii]

lot of black Muslims.

Crazy

[oarabbus]

Barack Hussein Obama


That's enough, Patrick Chewing.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Anywhere from 10 to 30 percent of the world pop.... For the past 1500 yrs.

[BigBoss]

I bet 90% of that list doesn't practice the 5 pillars of Islam. i.e. Pray 5 times a day, go to mecca, etc.

[DonDadda59]

I bet 90% of that list doesn't practice the 5 pillars of Islam. i.e. Pray 5 times a day, go to mecca, etc.

Most people who identify themselves as any religion don't practice what their good books preach. Hell, most of them have never read a page of the bible/quran/etc.

[poido123]

Most people who identify themselves as any religion don't practice what their good books preach. Hell, most of them have never read a page of the bible/quran/etc.


Quran has plenty of good stuff about hitting your wife and treating them like shit.

Awesome religion :rolleyes:

[ROCSteady]

I feel like most of the rappers that identify with Islam or are drawn to it because it's sort of an "alternative" religion in America but it still is spiritual and otherworldly. Artistic personalities tend to be kind of all over the place at times in their life, thus seeking meaning in a monotheistic philosophy or simplistic beauty in spiritual practices.

These same artists still probably don't feel as comfortable holding up the American version of Christianity. They have probably felt it to be more of the white race's go to spiritual affiliation and thus the foundation of a lot of people they see historically as oppressors.

For those reasons, those particular individuals gravitate towards Islam because it is more of a minority and they have felt the struggles (real or imagined) of being a minority instead of it being a family passed down kind of inheritance.

[DonDadda59]

Quran has plenty of good stuff about hitting your wife and treating them like shit.

Awesome religion :rolleyes:

The bible says any person caught committing adultery should be put to death. It also commands that rape victims marry their attacker (and he has to pay 50 silver sheckels to her father).

Both books were written in the dark ages by people who didn't know where the Sun went at night. What do you expect? :confusedshrug:

[sweggeh]

The bible says any person caught committing adultery should be put to death. It also commands that rape victims marry their attacker (and he has to pay 50 silver sheckels to her father).

Both books were written in the dark ages by people who didn't know where the Sun went at night. What do you expect? :confusedshrug:

Its funny cause hes Christian

[poido123]

The bible says any person caught committing adultery should be put to death. It also commands that rape victims marry their attacker (and he has to pay 50 silver sheckels to her father).

Both books were written in the dark ages by people who didn't know where the Sun went at night. What do you expect? :confusedshrug:


Old Testament. That is the teaching and ways lived by the people of that time. Christians in this day and age do not follow the barbaric rules of the old testament and follow the New testament which is why you don't see the extreme dark age shit you do with the Muslims.

The bible teaches love and acceptance which for the most part is carried out by most christians throughout the world(no beheadings or calling people to their religion or die) or severe oppression of women.

The Quran teaches everyone opposed to their religion are infidels.

[sweggeh]

Old Testament. That is the teaching and ways lived by the people of that time. Christians in this day and age do not follow the barbaric rules of the old testament and follow the New testament which is why you don't see the extreme dark age shit you do with the Muslims.

The bible teaches love and acceptance which for the most part is carried out by most christians throughout the world(no beheadings or calling people to their religion or die) or severe oppression of women.

The Quran teaches everyone opposed to their religion are infidels.

So let me get this straight. Your Christian, but since the bible was a bit too much in your opinion, you guys just decided to change it to suit you, right?

Thats one thing I never understood about Christians. Christianity is stupid and your an idiot for talking about Islam while being a Christian yourself. Talk about pot calling the kettle black.

[ace23]

Osama

[zoom17]

So let me get this straight. Your Christian, but since the bible was a bit too much in your opinion, you guys just decided to change it to suit you, right?

Thats one thing I never understood about Christians. Christianity is stupid and your an idiot for talking about Islam while being a Christian yourself. Talk about pot calling the kettle black.

Damn:applause:

[poido123]

So let me get this straight. Your Christian, but since the bible was a bit too much in your opinion, you guys just decided to change it to suit you, right?

Thats one thing I never understood about Christians. Christianity is stupid and your an idiot for talking about Islam while being a Christian yourself. Talk about pot calling the kettle black.


I'm christian, but I'd have a major problem if our people were committing such acts in the name of god?

We aren't doing that. This seems to be a fundamental flaw of Islam. We don't oppress our women either.

Where are the conservative Muslims condemning and bringing to shame these wonderful terrorists. They know about them in their communities, why are they turning a blind eye?

[brownmamba00]

Old Testament. That is the teaching and ways lived by the people of that time. Christians in this day and age do not follow the barbaric rules of the old testament and follow the New testament which is why you don't see the extreme dark age shit you do with the Muslims.

The bible teaches love and acceptance which for the most part is carried out by most christians throughout the world(no beheadings or calling people to their religion or die) or severe oppression of women.

The Quran teaches everyone opposed to their religion are infidels.
:lol :facepalm

[Budadiiii]

I feel so sorry for people that didn't grow up in Christian households and learned about Christian values.

For me, it's all I know. I couldn't imagine not having faith in anything and living a life without purpose or meaning.

For me, I enjoy living for something greater than myself, and I really do believe there is a reason we are all here, and I definitely believe there is an afterlife waiting for those of us with faith.

When you see all the evil in the world, all the wickedness, the pain, suffering....you become sad. But then you can pray to a God that will listen and everything is ok. Everything makes sense. And then you realize all the evil in the world is just here to balance out the good. God created evil so we can appreciate good. God created us like this so we have perspective and understanding. It's all a test, a test of will and a test of faith. Those who pass the test go to heaven and those who don't cease to exist.

Simple as that.

[sweggeh]

I'm christian, but I'd have a major problem if our people were committing such acts in the name of god?

We aren't doing that. This seems to be a fundamental flaw of Islam. We don't oppress our women either.

Where are the conservative Muslims condemning and bringing to shame these wonderful terrorists. They know about them in their communities, why are they turning a blind eye?

LOL

Clearly you havent seen the world. You seem to live in your own little bubble, you really have no idea what you are talking about.

[DonDadda59]

Old Testament.

Straight from the horse's mouth:

[B]

[sweggeh]

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Straight from the horse's mouth:

[B]

[poido123]

LOL

Clearly you havent seen the world. You seem to live in your own little bubble, you really have no idea what you are talking about.


empty post.

Thanks for dodging my statement and accepting defeat :cheers:

Own little bubble? I grew up among Muslim communities. I lived on the outskirts of Sydney which has a high concentration of Muslims and ethnicities in certain areas.

I'll tell you what is happening and what I know.

There are congregations and meetings in Sydney teaching Sharia law openly without any opposition or uproar.

There are communities of Muslims living among us who are sheltering and turning a blind eye to about to be and active extremists.

There has been two recent terrorist threats to australia within a week. These vermin are being harbored and hidden by "good muslims".

Don't try and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

These Muslims have a lot of explaining to do. Either bring your people into line or f.ck off out of our country. :coleman:

[poido123]

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Straight from the horse's mouth:

[B]

[NumberSix]

That's the problem with Christians nowadays- they think they can pick and choose which one of God's eternal, infallible laws they can follow while disregarding others. One thing you can't say about radical Muslims is that they're faking the funk like modern day psuedo Christians. They follow Allah's/Muhammad's teaching to the letter. Nigguhs are true to da game.
Would you rather they do the insane shit in the bible? I'm personally very glad they do the mental gymnastics required to justify ignoring the insane parts of the bible.

[Budadiiii]

empty post.

Thanks for dodging my statement and accepting defeat :cheers:

Own little bubble? I grew up among Muslim communities. I lived on the outskirts of Sydney which has a high concentration of Muslims and ethnicities in certain areas.

I'll tell you what is happening and what I know.

There are congregations and meetings in Sydney teaching Sharia law openly without any opposition or uproar.

There are communities of Muslims living among us who are sheltering and turning a blind eye to about to be and active extremists.

There has been two recent terrorist threats to australia within a week. These vermin are being harbored and hidden by "good muslims".

Don't try and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

These Muslims have a lot of explaining to do. Either bring your people into line or f.ck off out of our country. :coleman:
http://www.snarksquad.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/preach3.gif

[sweggeh]

empty post.

Thanks for dodging my statement and accepting defeat :cheers:

Own little bubble? I grew up among Muslim communities. I lived on the outskirts of Sydney which has a high concentration of Muslims and ethnicities in certain areas.

I'll tell you what is happening and what I know.

There are congregations and meetings in Sydney teaching Sharia law openly without any opposition or uproar.

There are communities of Muslims living among us who are sheltering and turning a blind eye to about to be and active extremists.

There has been two recent terrorist threats to australia within a week. These vermin are being harbored and hidden by "good muslims".

Don't try and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

These Muslims have a lot of explaining to do. Either bring your people into line or f.ck off out of our country. :coleman:

Moderate Muslims are citizens just like everyone else. As long as their beliefs and lifestyle do not harm anyone else, they are allowed to do what they want. Thats why Australia is supposedly a free country.

If their are Muslims that are Extremists and pose threats to others, then they should be stopped. If the moderate Muslims hear or see anything related to Extremism they have the responsibility to report it, which I have seen happen in London. But at the end of the day they arent the police. They can only do so much. Its not their responsibility to act like the authorities and search peoples houses. You think Extremists are that obvious about their behaviour? You think they just tell any Muslim guy on the street what they are up to? Of course not. So what more do you want Muslims to do about these Extremists?

Do you really think they like Extremists? You may not have realised this but Muslims have been killed by terrorists more than any other group of people. Even in the West, in 9/11 and in London, many Muslims were killed by Extremists. You really think they are happy about what they are doing? Come on dude, dont be so naive and use you brain. Im sure its in there somewhere if you look hard enough.

[TheMan]

Omer Asik and Destroy :rockon: and Hedo Turkoglu

[sweggeh]

double

[DonDadda59]

Would you rather they do the insane shit in the bible? I'm personally very glad they do the mental gymnastics required to justify ignoring the insane parts of the bible.

I'd rather we do away with all the dark age nonsense altogether.

[Raymone]

Is anyone the least bit worried about being killed by radical Christians? Radical Mormons? Radical Hindus?

Anyone?

[TheMan]

Muslims do harbor a lot of terrorists, when's the last time you heard of Buddhists extremists blowing shit up? Anyways, the thing that most bothers me about Muslim extremists is that they bitch and moan about the West and how it's a decadent lifestyle yet those fggots love moving to Europe and America :confusedshrug:

If you don't like our way of life, let us be and stay in your desert shithole and blow yourselves up :mad:

[poido123]

Moderate Muslims are citizens just like everyone else. As long as their beliefs and lifestyle do not harm anyone else, they are allowed to do what they want. Thats why Australia is supposedly a free country.

If their are Muslims that are Extremists and pose threats to others, then they should be stopped. If the moderate Muslims hear or see anything related to Extremism they have the responsibility to report it, which I have seen happen in London. But at the end of the day they arent the police. They can only do so much. Its not their responsibility to act like the authorities and search peoples houses. You think Extremists are that obvious about their behaviour? You think they just tell any Muslim guy on the street what they are up to? Of course not. So what more do you want Muslims to do about these Extremists?

Do you really think they like Extremists? You may


What happens to people who harbor or hide convicted escapees or criminals in America? They are breaking the law and are rightfully punished.

Why should that not apply here? The moderate Muslims are doing nothing to help ease the tension or put faith in people opposing their religion. They are essentially supporting the extremists by not reporting them or condemning them.

I can tell you that if every moderate Muslim was to report what they see or bring shame to these whackjobs, the problem wouldn't be there. I don't want to hear that they don't know what is going on, they do.

It's in the mosques, in homes, on the streets, they talk to each other about "evil america" in general chitchat. Things slip in conversation, but I'm sure they all just laugh about it.

They know about it. People acting suspiciously are not hard to work out.

[NumberSix]

What happens to people who harbor or hide convicted escapees or criminals in America? They are breaking the law and are rightfully punished.

Why should that not apply here? The moderate Muslims are doing nothing to help ease the tension or put faith in people opposing their religion. They are essentially supporting the extremists by not reporting them or condemning them.

I can tell you that if every moderate Muslim was to report what they see or bring shame to these whackjobs, the problem wouldn't be there. I don't want to hear that they don't know what is going on, they do.

It's in the mosques, in homes, on the streets, they talk to each other about "evil america" in general chitchat. Things slip in conversation, but I'm sure they all just laugh about it.

They know about it. People acting suspiciously are not hard to work out.
They use the old communist/Trotsky tactic of branding your enemies "racist" and braindead white knight liberals fall for it every time.

[poido123]

They use the old communist/Trotsky tactic of branding your enemies "racist" and braindead white knight liberals fall for it every time.


Exactly what happened with the recent terrorist threat.

Their was an outcry from the Muslim community proclaiming "oppression of the people" after raids were conducted.

Give me a f.cking break :facepalm

I despise this slimy, unaccountable religion who are systematically suffocating our system and way of life.

The politically correct movement who support these people are contributing to the problem :mad: :hammerhead:

[fpliii]

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Straight from the horse's mouth:

[B]

[poido123]

:applause:


I'm assuming you practice Islam.

Please read my post above.

[Brizzly]

We can always repent our sins, so I just try to cover all imaginable sins before dying, I just hope I don't have a unexpected death with no time to walk in to the confessional booth, that'd be mighty unfortunate. Spending the afterlife with the devil would suck.

[fpliii]

I'm assuming you practice Islam.

Please read my post above.
I take great offense at your accusation that I follow any religion my dude. Very serious insult in my book.

I'm an atheist, was brought up as a Catholic (though my family isn't terribly religious, they sent me to Sunday school when I was young just so I could make my own decision after learning about the religion), grew out of it a while ago. Have a strong, strong distaste for all religion.

I'm as opposed to Islam as I am to any other religion, but I've went to school/worked with/interacted with people of all faiths, and the Muslims I've known don't stand out in particular (both domestic and international).

The other day Nick Young and I were chatting about Islam...it's strange how the Muslims were a very modern/forward society for so long, but by the time the Renaissance rolled around, they ceased to progress. He and someone else posited that the Crusades might've had some influence, but it might just be a cultural thing. The Middle East is a hotbed for lunatics, and largely a third-world region at best.

Indoctrination is ridiculous...yes Islam is particularly bad, but I can't wait for all of this nonsense to die out. I don't mind if religious individuals practice their faiths in private, as a moral compass of sorts, but absolutely resent when it's forced upon others. Indoctrination is perhaps the worst intellectual crime one can commit, and you have loonies trying to bring their religion into politics, in this day and age. Yikes.

[poido123]

I take great offense at your accusation that I follow any religion my dude. Very serious insult in my book.

I'm an atheist, was brought up as a Catholic (though my family isn't terribly religious, they sent me to Sunday school when I was young just so I could make my own decision after learning about the religion), grew out of it a while ago. Have a strong, strong distaste for all religion.

I'm as opposed to Islam as I am to any other religion, but I've went to school/worked with/interacted with people of all faiths, and the Muslims I've known don't stand out in particular (both domestic and international).

The other day Nick Young and I were chatting about Islam...it's strange how the Muslims were a very modern/forward society for so long, but by the time the Renaissance rolled around, they ceased to progress. He and someone else posited that the Crusades might've had some influence, but it might just be a cultural thing. The Middle East is a hotbed for lunatics, and largely a third-world region at best.

Indoctrination is ridiculous...yes Islam is particularly bad, but I can't wait for all of this nonsense to die out. I don't mind if religious individuals practice their faiths in private, as a moral compass of sorts, but absolutely resent when it's forced upon others. Indoctrination is perhaps the worst intellectual crime one can commit, and you have loonies trying to bring their religion into politics, in this day and age. Yikes.


I just like to know what audience I'm talking to, didn't mean to offend you as it only helps me to understand your point of view or bias. Sorry for offending you.

That's what we are faced with. ISIS are the caliphate, which demands Sharia law to be upheld. Which means, that anyone who doesn't conform to Islam will be killed.

I have a big problem with that, as well as the people harboring these types of individuals.

I'm not saying Christians are squeaky clean, but they aren't striking fear into anyone or going around terrorising the world. There is a level of tolerance that I think they have breached.

At what point do you hold the whole lot accountable. This shit has been given too much leverage.

[fpliii]

I just like to know what audience I'm talking to, didn't mean to offend you as it only helps me to understand your point of view or bias. Sorry for offending you.

That's what we are faced with. ISIS are the caliphate, which demands Sharia law to be upheld. Which means, that anyone who doesn't conform to Islam will be killed.

I have a big problem with that, as well as the people harboring these types of individuals.

I'm not saying Christians are squeaky clean, but they aren't striking fear into anyone or going around terrorising the world. There is a level of tolerance that I think they have breached.

At what point do you hold the whole lot accountable. This shit has been given too much leverage.
No offense taken, just was a bit taken aback at first. :cheers:

As for the bolded, the answer is never IMO. Need to deal with the source (cease indoctrination...if that means the entire region needs to be civilly invaded/occupied, so be it), and genocide is never the answer. I'm not willing to generalize because of some of the sociopathic individuals.

Islam is a strange religion though...they have a strong hold on some of the most downtrodden areas of the world (Middle East, SE Asia, Africa). I'm not a scholar in the discipline, but there must be something about it that's drawing people to the faith in those areas (seems likely that they're the most accessible/susceptible to those committing the indoctrination).

[poido123]

No offense taken, just was a bit taken aback at first. :cheers:

As for the bolded, the answer is never IMO. Need to deal with the source (cease indoctrination...if that means the entire region needs to be civilly invaded/occupied, so be it), and genocide is never the answer. I'm not willing to generalize because of some of the sociopathic individuals.

Islam is a strange religion though...they have a strong hold on some of the most downtrodden areas of the world (Middle East, SE Asia, Africa). I'm not a scholar in the discipline, but there must be something about it that's drawing people to the faith in those areas (seems likely that they're the most accessible/susceptible to those committing the indoctrination).


Have you heard the idiom "cut the head off the snake?"

The communities of conservative Muslims are sheltering and providing a breeding bed for these radicals.

Part of the Quran encourages deception to protect the faith. I believe they have been doing this for quite a while now. Hidden under veils, hidden in secret hideouts/shelters etc, hidden behind mosque walls, using the "racist card" to pull strings in government law, they do everything undercover.

What makes their ideology and religion extremely dangerous is that they are drawing the desperate and poor people out to fight for their cause(you mentioned Middle east/SE Asia, Africa). So what they are essentially doing, is they are creating propaganda to make America the enemy, while they reward people to join their army with money(funded by seized oil fields and financing)and promise of protection and happiness to their people.

I really think this is the fundamental problem. The conservative Muslims are getting a pass, yet they are doing nothing to help the situation whether that be reporting suspicious activity or condemning the actions.

[fpliii]

Have you heard the idiom "cut the head off the snake?"

The communities of conservative Muslims are sheltering and providing a breeding bed for these radicals.

Part of the Quran encourages deception to protect the faith. I believe they have been doing this for quite a while now. Hidden under veils, hidden in secret hideouts/shelters etc, hidden behind mosque walls, using the "racist card" to pull strings in government law, they do everything undercover.

What makes their ideology and religion extremely dangerous is that they are drawing the desperate and poor people out to fight for their cause(you mentioned Middle east/SE Asia, Africa). So what they are essentially doing, is they are creating propaganda to make America the enemy, while they reward people to join their army with money(funded by seized oil fields and financing)and promise of protection and happiness to their people.

I really think this is the fundamental problem. The conservative Muslims are getting a pass, yet they are doing nothing to help the situation whether that be reporting suspicious activity or condemning the actions.
Obviously your experiences differ from mine, so there's no need to delve into the nature of the Muslims we both know.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting though. Are you suggesting that the religion is made illegal? Or that followers are deported or killed? I'm not quite sure for what sort of solution you're advocated here.

[Patrick Chewing]

.

Islam is a strange religion though...they have a strong hold on some of the most downtrodden areas of the world (Middle East, SE Asia, Africa). I'm not a scholar in the discipline, but there must be something about it that's drawing people to the faith in those areas (seems likely that they're the most accessible/susceptible to those committing the indoctrination).


The most downtrodden areas tend to be the areas with the least amount of education. It is easy to get swept up in an ideology and a radical one at that if you are unable to know the difference.

If the Middle East ever modernizes itself, it will be years after our lifetime.

[fpliii]

The most downtrodden areas tend to be the areas with the least amount of education. It is easy to get swept up in an ideology and a radical one at that if you are unable to know the difference.

If the Middle East ever modernizes itself, it will be years after our lifetime.
Not denying that, but it's strange. For the first few hundred, or even thousand years of the existence of Islam, when the West was backwards (after the fall of Rome, and with plagues/the Dark Ages), the Muslim world was making all sorts of mathematical/scientific/engineering advances. What happened? Did they just not adapt?

[poido123]

Obviously your experiences differ from mine, so there's no need to delve into the nature of the Muslims we both know.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting though. Are you suggesting that the religion is made illegal? Or that followers are deported or killed? I'm not quite sure for what sort of solution you're advocated here.


Deportation. Immediate halt to Muslim immigration to Australia. Traditionally we have fought wars on a country to country basis. The war on terrrorism is represented by a religious ideology which is now out of hand.

We are now dealing with a religious war that is harder to determine a clear enemy. The threat has to be brought to the surface.

There have been 2 recent terrorists attempts in the last week in Australia. I think that was the final straw.

I have seen enough. This isn't going to be a popular approach, but it is highly necessary for the preservation of Australia.

[Nick Young]

No offense taken, just was a bit taken aback at first. :cheers:

As for the bolded, the answer is never IMO. Need to deal with the source (cease indoctrination...if that means the entire region needs to be civilly invaded/occupied, so be it), and genocide is never the answer. I'm not willing to generalize because of some of the sociopathic individuals.

Islam is a strange religion though...they have a strong hold on some of the most downtrodden areas of the world (Middle East, SE Asia, Africa). I'm not a scholar in the discipline, but there must be something about it that's drawing people to the faith in those areas (seems likely that they're the most accessible/susceptible to those committing the indoctrination).
Because they are promised 72 eternal virgins in heaven when they die, whose virginities continually regrow, and are told if they die as martyrs for Islam they get super virgins. Must be a nice fantasy to escape too especially if everything around you is so shit. Also the extremist movements probably makes a lot of stupid people and loners to feel accepted in a group and powerful. They always target the loners.

[poido123]

The most downtrodden areas tend to be the areas with the least amount of education. It is easy to get swept up in an ideology and a radical one at that if you are unable to know the difference.

If the Middle East ever modernizes itself, it will be years after our lifetime.


The perfect storm to create a war.

Uneducated, brainwashed people wrapped up on false promises and warped ideology.

[pauk]

You dont have Malcolm X in your list? :coleman:

[fpliii]

Deportation. Immediate halt to Muslim immigration to Australia. Traditionally we have fought wars on a country to country basis. The war on terrrorism is represented by a religious ideology which is now out of hand.

We are now dealing with a religious war that is harder to determine a clear enemy. The threat has to be brought to the surface.

There have been 2 recent terrorists attempts in the last week in Australia. I think that was the final straw.

I have seen enough. This isn't going to be a popular approach, but it is highly necessary for the preservation of Australia.
Deportation of all Muslims, including the conservatives? Or just those considered to be extremists?

Don't you believe it's inhumane, especially when the religion is considered to be one that dehumanizes women/children? Would you be comfortable sending them to a warzone where they'll be much worse off, and far away from freedom/opportunities to advance in society? Again, I'm halfway across the world so I won't challenge your stance, but I don't think a "them vs us" mentality makes much sense here. Cutting off immigration, perhaps, but deportation is unrealistic. If anything, you remove the dangerous elements.

I'm not too familiar with the Aussie governmental infrastructure. Do you guys have some sort of monitoring agency/branch to keep tabs on those suspected to be extremists?

[MavsSuperFan]

You dont have Malcolm X in your list? :coleman:
Everybody knows malcolm x is a muslim. Americans are probably more likely to know malcolm x was a muslim than any other muslim

thats like saying you dont have dr king on a list of "people you didnt know were christian"

[pauk]

Oh, right... "people you didnt know"....

Anyways, I heard 2pac was muslim a couple of times aswell, but it seems he just grew up with some muslim parent, he really respected Islam though.... in his interviews & even lyrics:

From i aint mad at cha:

'Oh you a Muslim now, no more dope game
Heard you might be comin home, just got bail
Wanna go to the Mosque, don't wanna chase tail
I seems I lost my little homie he's a changed man'

and: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx4tievc0EQ

"Its my principles, my manhood, so i said fire me from this 100.000$ movie, because i aint gona play no gangbanger who is a muslim, there aint no such thing, i refuse to play parts that doesnt exist."

:applause:

[poido123]

Deportation of all Muslims, including the conservatives? Or just those considered to be extremists?

Don't you believe it's inhumane, especially when the religion is considered to be one that dehumanizes women/children? Would you be comfortable sending them to a warzone where they'll be much worse off, and far away from freedom/opportunities to advance in society? Again, I'm halfway across the world so I won't challenge your stance, but I don't think a "them vs us" mentality makes much sense here. Cutting off immigration, perhaps, but deportation is unrealistic. If anything, you remove the dangerous elements.

I'm not too familiar with the Aussie governmental infrastructure. Do you guys have some sort of monitoring agency/branch to keep tabs on those suspected to be extremists?


The alternative is, we leave things as they are and we get imminent terrorist attacks and we continue to fork out financial aid to many muslims who sought asylum in this country. We continue to bend over and allow our own laws to be manipulated and used to favor their demands of entitlement. We continue to wait for the next sad story of innocent australians being beheaded. The list goes on.

Yes we do. We have heavily funded a counter-terrorist unit in our police force. They have the power to act upon threats before they happen. Which is how they were able to seize those 15 people in the raids recently.

Again, that's more money Australians are having to pay for a religion which cannot function in a Western society.

[ROCSteady]

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Straight from the horse's mouth:

[B]

[poido123]

Damn bro, Ether. :applause:

I'll give you props for at least knowing some scriptures to refute the Christian claims.

I'm not a Christian but my mother is and my brother in law is too, among many others in my family.

I asked him about the old Testament and why it's ok to eat shellfish, kill, etc. and he explained it to me that the Old Testament was no longer the rule of law due to some shit.

That passage you put down clearly contradicts his assertion that the Old Testament no longer is to be followed the same as it was hundreds and hundreds of years ago.


Spend all your time refuting a god and its teachings. Great idea.

I hope the idea of dying in the dirt with nothing to look forward to is appealing to you. (High sarcasm)

[fpliii]

The alternative is, we leave things as they are and we get imminent terrorist attacks and we continue to fork out financial aid to many muslims who sought asylum in this country. We continue to bend over and allow our own laws to be manipulated and used to favor their demands of entitlement. We continue to wait for the next sad story of innocent australians being beheaded. The list goes on.

Yes we do. We have heavily funded a counter-terrorist unit in our police force. They have the power to act upon threats before they happen. Which is how they were able to seize those 15 people in the raids recently.

Again, that's more money Australians are having to pay for a religion which cannot function in a Western society.
My question is though, are you comfortable deporting women and children, and essentially condemning them to what is certainly a hellhole?

Even if the conservative Muslims aren't bending over backwards to report the miscreants, is it fair to punish them for inaction/association? It's really a death sentence, since moderates aren't treated well in the Middle East, by most accounts.

It seems extremely divisive, but some of these families/communities might have resided there for multiple generations. I get that it's not compatible with Western society, and likely would be inclined to agree. But IMO I think all you can really do, is your due diligence to ensure terrorist cells don't emerge, and if they do, properly monitor them and stop them in their tracks. Deportation in this instance is inhumane, especially since, again, the women/children are oppressed, and perhaps not willful participants (unless they've been deeply indoctrinated).

[Patrick Chewing]

The problem I would have in countries like Australia and in Europe is the loss of a country's history and culture when there is a mass exodus in other countries and into yours.


Muslim demographics in Europe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU

[pauk]

Anyways... so.... some psychos in flip-flops are killing some dude now and then, they happen to be "muslim".... and these guys in the list are aswell, maybe they will start cutting some heads and blowing stuff up aswell, so..... stay away! :eek: ...wait, i am apparently capable of that to, i have muslim blood in me.... stay away guys! i dont know myself what im gona do!! i can feeeeeel it! :eek:

[ROCSteady]

Spend all your time refuting a god and its teachings. Great idea.

I hope the idea of dying in the dirt with nothing to look forward to is appealing to you. (High sarcasm)

Spending all my time refuting God? Where do u get that from? Because I have conversations about things I find questionable with family members, who are devoted, educated Christians (educated in a biblical sense)?

The tone of your post is quite . .. odd.

Dying in the dirt with eternal unconsciousness isn't the worst thing I can think of.

[poido123]

My question is though, are you comfortable deporting women and children, and essentially condemning them to what is certainly a hellhole?

Even if the conservative Muslims aren't bending over backwards to report the miscreants, is it fair to punish them for inaction/association? It's really a death sentence, since moderates aren't treated well in the Middle East, by most accounts.

It seems extremely divisive, but some of these families/communities might have resided there for multiple generations. I get that it's not compatible with Western society, and likely would be inclined to agree. But IMO I think all you can really do, is your due diligence to ensure terrorist cells don't emerge, and if they do, properly monitor them and stop them in their tracks. Deportation in this instance is inhumane, especially since, again, the women/children are oppressed, and perhaps not willful participants (unless they've been deeply indoctrinated).


It's not a pretty alternative, but a necessary one.

I feel for those people who have absolutely no role in the current events. They would be paying a price for the people in their religion who coudn't speak up, who couldn't resist terrorist attacks and who committed treason on this country by joining ISIS in one way, shape or form.

During war time, families were deported.

The problem isn't the deportation, the problem is that immigration has now reared it's ugly head and it should never of got to this point.

Absolutely. Inaction and not speaking out is no different to the laws made about people harboring convicted criminals/escapees in their homes.

[DonDadda59]

Damn bro, Ether. :applause:

I'll give you props for at least knowing some scriptures to refute the Christian claims.

I'm not a Christian but my mother is and my brother in law is too, among many others in my family.

I asked him about the old Testament and why it's ok to eat shellfish, kill, etc. and he explained it to me that the Old Testament was no longer the rule of law due to some shit.

That passage you put down clearly contradicts his assertion that the Old Testament no longer is to be followed the same as it was hundreds and hundreds of years ago.

If you even just think about it logically it doesn't make any sense. Jesus' claims, as well as his followers, was that he was the fulfillment of all the prophecies in the Old Testament. So without that source, he literally doesn't exist in any sort of divine way. If you reject the OT, you reject Jesus, plain and simple. He's only the messiah in theory because the OT said there would be one and he had to fit very specific parameters (ie, being a descendant of David... which Jesus wasn't since he wasn't really Joseph's son, but that's a whole other thing :lol )


I hope the idea of dying in the dirt with nothing to look forward to is appealing to you. (High sarcasm)

The Universe doesn't really give a shit what's appealing to you. I'm sure there were some T-Rexes running around millions of years ago (6,000) hoping they would spend eternity playing Xbox with Jesus like Christians do now. But I'm sure you'll reason that only humans get to do that, nothing to do with misguided narcissism of course. Unless there really are T-Rexes in Heaven... then count me in.

[poido123]

Spending all my time refuting God? Where do u get that from? Because I have conversations about things I find questionable with family members, who are devoted, educated Christians (educated in a biblical sense)?

The tone of your post is quite . .. odd.

Dying in the dirt with eternal unconsciousness isn't the worst thing I can think of.


There has been criticism of Christians in this thread too.

I wouldn't of made this comment, had it not been for the atheist POV on the verses of the bible and its credibility.

Atheists spend a lot of time denouncing religion and its validity or importance, which is why when you agreed with his notion I felt a need to address it.

[fpliii]

It's not a pretty alternative, but a necessary one.

I feel for those people who have absolutely no role in the current events. They would be paying a price for the people in their religion who coudn't speak up, who couldn't resist terrorist attacks and who committed treason on this country by joining ISIS in one way, shape or form.

During war time, families were deported.

The problem isn't the deportation, the problem is that immigration has now reared it's ugly head and it should never of got to this point.

Absolutely. Inaction and not speaking out is no different to the laws made about people harboring convicted criminals/escapees in their homes.
We'll have to agree to disagree then. I don't believe the sentiments of the many outweigh the rights of the few. It's much more difficult and could be more costly, but I think you have to pursue a more humanitarian solution. Educate the communities, and resort to detainment/deportation only for the dangerous and active elements.

Anyhow though, thanks for the conversation bro. Hopefully things work out for you guys, and things don't get much worse.

[KingBeasley08]

DonDadda is one of the most knowledgeable dudes on the history of religion. I could read the guy's posts all day :applause:

[poido123]

If you even just think about it logically it doesn't make any sense. Jesus' claims, as well as his followers, was that he was the fulfillment of all the prophecies in the Old Testament. So without that source, he literally doesn't exist in any sort of divine way. If you reject the OT, you reject Jesus, plain and simple. He's only the messiah in theory because the OT said there would be one and he had to fit very specific parameters (ie, being a descendant of David... which Jesus wasn't since he wasn't really Joseph's son, but that's a whole other thing :lol )



The Universe doesn't really give a shit what's appealing to you. I'm sure there were some T-Rexes running around millions of years ago (6,000) hoping they would spend eternity playing Xbox with Jesus like Christians do now. But I'm sure you'll reason that only humans get to do that, nothing to do with misguided narcissism of course. Unless there really are T-Rexes in Heaven... then count me in.


Feel free to not believe in god, but refuting its existence and validity will only be met with resistance among christians, which I'm sure you knew when you became atheist and made these remarks in this thread.

The fact that I made that comment about the dirt and nothing to look forward to, really did strike a chord. Both of you seemed quite resigned to the fact, which is fine.

[DonDadda59]

Feel free to not believe in god, but refuting its existence and validity will only be met with resistance among christians, which I'm sure you knew when you became atheist and made these remarks in this thread.

I welcome that 'resistance'. I think if you believe in something, you should be able to defend your position beyond it just being something you were indoctrinated into without ever really questioning it.


The fact that I made that comment about the dirt and nothing to look forward to, really did strike a chord. Both of you seemed quite resigned to the fact, which is fine.

Again, it doesn't matter what I'm 'resigned to' or not. The Universe doesn't run on my feelings :oldlol:

[poido123]

I welcome that 'resistance'. I think if you believe in something, you should be able to defend your position beyond it just being something you were indoctrinated into without ever really questioning it.



Again, it doesn't matter what I'm 'resigned to' or not. The Universe doesn't run on my feelings :oldlol:


I want to avoid arguing a point with you. I'll lose and I know that. You have routinely ethered many a poster in basketball discussions which I'm very aware of. :roll:

You are one of my favourite posters on here. You love the team that I love, so you can understand that I really would rather rub others the wrong way :oldlol:

[pauk]

The problem I would have in countries like Australia and in Europe is the loss of a country's history and culture when there is a mass exodus in other countries and into yours.


Muslim demographics in Europe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU

Culture / History has to do with where you come from, NOT IDEOLOGY............ here in Balkans, specifically Bosnia (yep, in Europe), we are SLAVIC, western muslims, white muslims who converted to Islam looooooong time ago...... our culture / history is completely different, our culture / ancestry / blood is SLAVIC, westernised, the Christians here are our brothers, our blood, hell my mother is christian (catholic croatian).... understand? We didnt come from the middle-east somewhere (and there is no middle-easterns here anyways), we are converts....... here you wont be able to see the difference between a random Christian & Muslim, not even with women, they dont wear "Hijabs", why? Because that is CULTURAL, that is middle-eastern........... its not obligatory in Islam to ***ing be covered.... do you have a Sombrero??????

My point is, you are confusing THE MIDDLE-EAST (its culture/history) with ISLAM...... Islam is everywhere and has always been everywhere (well, almost) in more or less type of magnitude and all of them have their own culture/history/ancestry/race etc.......

Its the middle-eastern's that need to integrate into our system & "behave" if they want to stay here...... not the religion itself....... in that regard i agree with you...... i tell you this as a European White Muslim, i dont care if any middle-eastern is muslim or christian, they are foreigners..... and if you want to stay in MY house you either integrate or get the hell out...... ofcourse.......

[NBAplayoffs2001]

We always focus on the lunatics, lets talk about the famous people a lot of us didnt know were Muslim.

DISCLAIMER: Alot of these people are varying levels of Muslims. Some are devout, others say they feel close with the religion and follow its general ideals but dont practice daily. Some also belong to different sects of Islam, like the 5 percenters, Nation of Islam, etc.

T-Pain
Akon
Mike Tyson
Shaquille O'Neal
Michael Jackson
Robin Van Persie
Busta Rhymes
Nicholas Anelka
Frank Ribery
Kolo Toure
Yaya Toure
Lupe Fiasco
Thierry Henry
Ice Cube
Napoleon (from 2pacs group outlawz)
Jermaine Jackson
Beanie Sigel
Dave Chappelle
Swiss Beatz
Big Daddy Kane
Rakim
Mos Def
Everlast
DJ Khaled
MC Ren
Scarface
Raekwon
Q-Tip
Snoop Dogg (was, but is rasta now)
Vinne Paz
Rima Fakih (Miss USA 2010)
Bernard Hopkins
Chamillionaire
Iman (old ass model)
Eve (from that tv show eve)
K-Rino
Ghostface Killah
Mesut Ozil
Karim Benzema
Zinedine Zidane
Common
Danny Williams (british boxer)
Chris Eubank (see above)
Samir Nasri
Ibrahim Afellay
Seydou Keita
Eric Abidal
Zayn Malik (that dude from one direction)

Zayn Malik is a very muslim name dude...

[ROCSteady]

There has been criticism of Christians in this thread too.

I wouldn't of made this comment, had it not been for the atheist POV on the verses of the bible and its credibility.

Atheists spend a lot of time denouncing religion and its validity or importance, which is why when you agreed with his notion I felt a need to address it.

Asking people who have studied the Bible nuanced and historical questions isn't exactly denouncing religion, now is it? I was genuinely curious. Excuse me for wanting explanations about things my family claim are iron clad as it relates to our species' salvation. :confusedshrug:

I'm not an atheist , there's just too many holes to all the preaching that human beings do with the type of absolutism deployed for me to spend my time and energy wanting to be around Christians and their culture.

[poido123]

Asking people who have studied the Bible nuanced and historical questions isn't exactly denouncing religion, now is it? I was genuinely curious. Excuse me for wanting explanations about things my family claim are iron clad as it relates to our species' salvation. :confusedshrug:

I'm not an atheist , there's just too many holes to all the preaching that human beings do with the type of absolutism deployed for me to spend my time and energy wanting to be around Christians and their culture.


That's fine. And truth is, I am only one person and it's my opinion and interpretation of my faith against others etc.

Only thing I'd say is, highly educated non-believers have become believers through their sheer determination to disprove a god.

I don't know what religion you believe in, but I believe everyone comes accross their truth on their own journey.

Good luck.

[NumberSix]

That's fine. And truth is, I am only one person and it's my opinion and interpretation of my faith against others etc.

Only thing I'd say is, highly educated non-believers have become believers through their sheer determination to disprove a god.

I don't know what religion you believe in, but I believe everyone comes accross their truth on their own journey.

Good luck.
Nobody who is particularly intelligent would have set out on a mission to prove a god doesn't exist in the first place.

[ROCSteady]

Thanks bro. I admire my mom's faith. She's does a lot of good for others and she's not full of shit like many other loud brash Christians. She's stronger than most people in times of hardship and trying circumstances so I won't say there's nothing to it when practiced.

I just can't get on board with any mob mentalities about anything.

[poido123]

Nobody who is particularly intelligent would have set out on a mission to prove a god doesn't exist in the first place.


Scientists. Hell bent to prove everything about the Big Bang or Evolution.

[J Shuttlesworth]

I take great offense at your accusation that I follow any religion my dude. Very serious insult in my book.

I'm an atheist, was brought up as a Catholic (though my family isn't terribly religious, they sent me to Sunday school when I was young just so I could make my own decision after learning about the religion), grew out of it a while ago. Have a strong, strong distaste for all religion.

I'm as opposed to Islam as I am to any other religion, but I've went to school/worked with/interacted with people of all faiths, and the Muslims I've known don't stand out in particular (both domestic and international).

The other day Nick Young and I were chatting about Islam...it's strange how the Muslims were a very modern/forward society for so long, but by the time the Renaissance rolled around, they ceased to progress. He and someone else posited that the Crusades might've had some influence, but it might just be a cultural thing. The Middle East is a hotbed for lunatics, and largely a third-world region at best.

Indoctrination is ridiculous...yes Islam is particularly bad, but I can't wait for all of this nonsense to die out. I don't mind if religious individuals practice their faiths in private, as a moral compass of sorts, but absolutely resent when it's forced upon others. Indoctrination is perhaps the worst intellectual crime one can commit, and you have loonies trying to bring their religion into politics, in this day and age. Yikes.
fpliii, you just went up a huge notch in my book. I also get offended when someone assumes I'm a certain religion. Since when does disagreeing with Christianity = you must be muslim?

Religion in general is toxic, and creates the idea that we are some kind of special beings when in reality we are just animals. Think about all the people that expect to go to some magical place where everything is perfect when they die (obviously heaven). The fact that religion assumes so many things about existence is absolutely atrocious, especially with no evidence/knowledge to back it up.

[NumberSix]

Scientists. Hell bent to prove everything about the Big Bang or Evolution.
That doesn't disprove the existence of a god or gods.

You're pulling a strawman here. I don't think anybody has ever tried to prove there is no god. It doesn't even make any kind of sense. There can ONLY be lack of proof, not proof of the negative.

[fpliii]

fpliii, you just went up a huge notch in my book. I also get offended when someone assumes I'm a certain religion. Since when does disagreeing with Christianity = you must be muslim?

Religion in general is toxic, and creates the idea that we are some kind of special beings when in reality we are just animals. Think about all the people that expect to go to some magical place where everything is perfect when they die (obviously heaven). The fact that religion assumes so many things about existence is absolutely atrocious, especially with no evidence/knowledge to back it up.
Just a note...I came off a bit angrier in that reply than I really am. I have two primary objections to religion:

1) Indoctrination
2) Intermingling of religion and politics

I don't have any problem with religion being used as a moral compass/guide, or as a means of coping with loss/circumstances, etc. I do have to agree that we're the same as animals. I don't believe in the existence of a higher being, and don't think there is any sort of afterlife (though maybe a suspended state of consciousness is possible? I'm certainly not an authority on neuroscience or psychology, so I won't speculate), but humans are sentient beings, capable of advanced thought, informed decision making, and acting on the basis of morals as opposed to survival instincts. Deep down man may still have the desire to excessively procreate, assert dominance, and the like, but I don't think we're all that similar to other animals.

[Patrick Chewing]

That doesn't disprove the existence of a god or gods.

You're pulling a strawman here. I don't think anybody has ever tried to prove there is no god. It doesn't even make any kind of sense. There can ONLY be lack of proof, not proof of the negative.


Hey I asked you in that Evolution thread we had fun in, if you believed in God? What say you?

[NumberSix]

Hey I asked you in that Evolution thread we had fun in, if you believed in God? What say you?
I have no opinion about what is or isn't outside of our universe.

[poido123]

fpliii, you just went up a huge notch in my book. I also get offended when someone assumes I'm a certain religion. Since when does disagreeing with Christianity = you must be muslim?

Religion in general is toxic, and creates the idea that we are some kind of special beings when in reality we are just animals. Think about all the people that expect to go to some magical place where everything is perfect when they die (obviously heaven). The fact that religion assumes so many things about existence is absolutely atrocious, especially with no evidence/knowledge to back it up.


That is no different from my indiscretion.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Just a note...I came off a bit angrier in that reply than I really am. I have two primary objections to religion:

1) Indoctrination
2) Intermingling of religion and politics

I don't have any problem with religion being used as a moral compass/guide, or as a means of coping with loss/circumstances, etc. I do have to agree that we're the same as animals. I don't believe in the existence of a higher being, and don't think there is any sort of afterlife (though maybe a suspended state of consciousness is possible? I'm certainly not an authority on neuroscience or psychology, so I won't speculate), but humans are sentient beings, capable of advanced thought, informed decision making, and acting on the basis of morals as opposed to survival instincts. Deep down man may still have the desire to excessively procreate, assert dominance, and the like, but I don't think we're all that similar to other animals.
I'm pretty similar in my "beliefs" or lack thereof.

There are definitely some good morals in some religions, but that's more of philosophy than anything. Most abrahamic religions drew from Pagans, which is where most of the "moral compasses" come from in religion. I despise the fact that many people think religion and morals are inter-twined and you can't have one without the other. Most major religions have good morals mixed with completely immoral ideas and indoctrination. I can't say that religion is good just because there are some good morals in it... Those can easily be overshadowed by the downside of religion. Actually, I really like the way Sam Harris talks about morals, and how they are more scientific than people think:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj9oB4zpHww

[poido123]

That doesn't disprove the existence of a god or gods.

You're pulling a strawman here. I don't think anybody has ever tried to prove there is no god. It doesn't even make any kind of sense. There can ONLY be lack of proof, not proof of the negative.


If you spend your life and career trying to prove something that is in direct opposite of the existence of god, aren't you actually saying that in a way they are trying to prove there is no god?

Some scientists are very closed off from anything religious. Their foundation of belief is built on what they can see, not on faith itself.

[J Shuttlesworth]

That doesn't disprove the existence of a god or gods.

You're pulling a strawman here. I don't think anybody has ever tried to prove there is no god. It doesn't even make any kind of sense. There can ONLY be lack of proof, not proof of the negative.
Actually, it's a logical fallacy to try to prove that something "doesn't exist". I believe they call it "evidence of absence" or something.

It is impossible to prove a negative. I could say "You can't prove to me there isn't a flying spaghetti monster" in the sky... That doesn't mean that a flying spaghetti monster exists. The burden of proof lies on the person claiming there IS a flying spaghetti monster... or in this case, God.

[NumberSix]

If you spend your life and career trying to prove something that is in direct opposite of the existence of god, aren't you actually saying that in a way they are trying to prove there is no god?
No. Understanding things inside of our universe doesn't prove anything about what is or isn't outside of our universe.

Proving evolution and the big bang to be true have nothing to do with whether there are gods outside of our universe. It's not the opposite. There's no correlation whatsoever.

[Patrick Chewing]

I have no opinion about what is or isn't outside of our universe.

But you reject Creationism of man over the Evolutionary Theory that humanity derived from amoebas in the ocean?

[poido123]

No. Understanding things inside of our universe doesn't prove anything about what is or isn't outside of our universe.

Proving evolution and the big bang to be true have nothing to do with whether there are gods outside of our universe. It's not the opposite. There's no correlation whatsoever.


The creation of life and the solar system coming from a big bang and the expansion of chemical reactions etc etc is in direct contrast to a god who created the world..

But rethinking what I wrote, I guess you can study to prove something, unintentionally disproving a god...

[J Shuttlesworth]

No. Understanding things inside of our universe doesn't prove anything about what is or isn't outside of our universe.

Proving evolution and the big bang to be true have nothing to do with whether there are gods outside of our universe. It's not the opposite. There's no correlation whatsoever.
It doesn't prove that a God doesn't exist, but it does prove that the world wasn't created in 6 days, and that woman wasn't created from a man's rib, and that a man named Adam didn't just magically appear in the world...

[NumberSix]

Actually, it's a logical fallacy to try to prove that something "doesn't exist". I believe they call it "evidence of absence" or something.

It is impossible to prove a negative. I could say "You can't prove to me there isn't a flying spaghetti monster" in the sky... That doesn't mean that a flying spaghetti monster exists. The burden of proof lies on the person claiming there IS a flying spaghetti monster... or in this case, God.
It's not true that you can't prove a negative. You often can.

In the case of what is outside of our universe, that ca not be proven. It hasn't been proven that there even is anything outside of our universe.

[poido123]

Actually, it's a logical fallacy to try to prove that something "doesn't exist". I believe they call it "evidence of absence" or something.

It is impossible to prove a negative. I could say "You can't prove to me there isn't a flying spaghetti monster" in the sky... That doesn't mean that a flying spaghetti monster exists. The burden of proof lies on the person claiming there IS a flying spaghetti monster... or in this case, God.


There is both sides. I don't like it but there is.

I believe there is proof. They have identified the exact location of artifacts dug up in the ground close to Mt. Sanai(scriptured story), the parting of the seas and evidence of those chariots remnants that actually traveled through that separation all those years ago...

So why doesn't the burden of proof fall on those to disprove god or religion?

[NumberSix]

The creation of life and the solar system coming from a big bang and the expansion of chemical reactions etc etc is in direct contrast to a god who created the world.
Well, it would depend on what you mean by "world". If you mean Earth, then sure. We already know how Earth was "created". If you mean the universe, we have no idea.

[J Shuttlesworth]

There is both sides. I don't like it but there is.

I believe there is proof. They have identified the exact location of artifacts dug up in the ground close to Mt. Sanai(scriptured story), the parting of the seas and evidence of those chariots remnants that actually traveled through that separation all those years ago...

So why doesn't the burden of proof fall on those to disprove god or religion?
Because the believers in God are making a positive claim, whereas the non-believers are making no claim.

Again, I could say that a flying spaghetti monster exists. Just because you can not prove that it doesn't exist, doesn't make it so. To back up the claim that one exists, I would have to provide proof that one does.

[poido123]

Well, it would depend on what you mean by "world". If you mean Earth, then sure. We already know how Earth was "created". If you mean the universe, we have no idea.


We are assuming god can create the world if he can create an earth...

I don't want to bible bash or sit in a religious rant with you guys.

I appreciate there are differences we don't agree on and that's really all there is to it.

[J Shuttlesworth]

And FYI, a sculptured story is by no means proof of parting water.

[poido123]

Because the believers in God are making a positive claim, whereas the non-believers are making no claim.

Again, I could say that a flying spaghetti monster exists. Just because you can not prove that it doesn't exist, doesn't make it so. To back up the claim that one exists, I would have to provide proof that one does.


I think you wrote this without actually reading my post. I mentioned the "proof" in it somewhere.

Amazing ignorance :pimp:

[Nanners]

Is anyone the least bit worried about being killed by radical Christians? Radical Mormons? Radical Hindus?

Anyone?

we really gonn act like radical christians never do messed up stuff?

you should tell that to this poor child that is refusing to be cooked during a christian feast

https://i.imgur.com/6mRkAPs.jpg

[J Shuttlesworth]

I think you wrote this without actually reading my post. I mentioned the "proof" in it somewhere.

Amazing ignorance :pimp:
What you're referring to as proof is far from that.

If there were legitimate proof of a God, the scientific world would be in an uproar

[NumberSix]

There is both sides. I don't like it but there is.

I believe there is proof. They have identified the exact location of artifacts dug up in the ground close to Mt. Sanai(scriptured story) the parting of the seas and evidence of those chariots remnants that actually traveled through that separation all those years ago...
That was revealed to be a hoax a long time ago dude.


So why doesn't the burden of proof fall on those to disprove god or religion?
Because that's nonsensical. Can you prove that god didn't talk to me earlier today? No, you can't. It's an impossible task.

It makes no sense to prove things aren't true. There's an infinite number of things that would need to be proven untrue. Does it not make more sense to prove the one right answer true than the infinite wrong answer false?

[NumberSix]

We are assuming god can create the world if he can create an earth...

I don't want to bible bash or sit in a religious rant with you guys.

I appreciate there are differences we don't agree on and that's really all there is to it.
What's "the world"?

[Patrick Chewing]

Answer me, bro!

[poido123]

we really gonn act like radical christians never do messed up stuff?

you should tell that to this poor child that is refusing to be cooked during a christian feast

https://i.imgur.com/6mRkAPs.jpg


You're looking at a cult, not a christian philosophy or tradition here.

Still waiting on mass graves and boasting beheadings and conform or die ultimatums :oldlol:

[NumberSix]

Answer me, bro!
Who?

[poido123]

What you're referring to as proof is far from that.

If there were legitimate proof of a God, the scientific world would be in an uproar


Long time scientists have converted after findings such as these.

[Patrick Chewing]

Who?


You, *****! Previous page.

[Nanners]

You're looking at a cult, not a christian philosophy or tradition here.

Still waiting on mass graves and boasting beheadings and conform or die ultimatums :oldlol:

jesus tapdancing christ you are stupid :oldlol:

[Patrick Chewing]

jesus tapdancing christ you are stupid :oldlol:


You didn't pick up the sarcasm??

[J Shuttlesworth]

Long time scientists have converted after findings such as these.
Link to "proof" and said scientists converting?

[poido123]

That was revealed to be a hoax a long time ago dude.


Because that's nonsensical. Can you prove that god didn't talk to me earlier today? No, you can't. It's an impossible task.

It makes no sense to prove things aren't true. There's an infinite number of things that would need to be proven untrue. Does it not make more sense to prove the one right answer true than the infinite wrong answer false?



Scientists trying to explain the occurence:

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=99580

A lot of scepticists are dubious of the source(Ron Wyatt), disproving his credibility on a number of findings...

A bit of which side do you believe type thing. Comes back to that word "faith"

[MavsSuperFan]

we really gonn act like radical christians never do messed up stuff?

you should tell that to this poor child that is refusing to be cooked during a christian feast

https://i.imgur.com/6mRkAPs.jpg
No, obviously with 2.2 billion Christians in the world you are going to see some messed up shit.

its a false equivalency though. Christians extremists are basically powerless

Sharia law is the fundamental basis of many legal codes and influences others
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/81/Use_of_Sharia_by_country.svg/940px-Use_of_Sharia_by_country.svg.png
Where sharia law is influential

Other than the Vatican, i cant think of a nation where its laws are defined by Christianity.

Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan all call themselves islamic republics (off the top of my head thats all i can think of, there are probably more). Also of course the Islamic State

Islamic extremists control vast swaths of the globe. They have committed acts of genocide just a few months ago. They are currently planning random attacks against non-Muslims.

Islam is the only religion (in 2014) where a significant minority of it wants to militarily conqueror other countries.

[NumberSix]

But you reject Creationism of man over the Evolutionary Theory that humanity derived from amoebas in the ocean?
Evolution is a fact. I have no ability to pretend that it isn't true. I know it is.

If you're not familiar with the science, I can understand why you don't know that it's true. I do know the science though. I can't choose to not know it's true.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Scientists trying to explain the occurence:

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=99580

A lot of scepticists are dubious of the source(Ron Wyatt), disproving his credibility on a number of findings...

A bit of which side do you believe type thing. Comes back to that word "faith"
Again, this is far from proof. This scientist is basically explaining how it could be possible, not that it happened. I'm not sure how you're trying to use this as proof...

[poido123]

Link to "proof" and said scientists converting?


Good article about researchers linking biblical events to science

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1314725/As-researchers-prove-Red-Sea-really-parted--How-science-backs-Bibles-best-stories.html

Scientist converting: http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/04/03/collins.commentary/index.html?iref=allsearch

[NumberSix]

Scientists trying to explain the occurence:

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=99580

A lot of scepticists are dubious of the source(Ron Wyatt), disproving his credibility on a number of findings...

A bit of which side do you believe type thing. Comes back to that word "faith"
1. They're not "explaining an occurrence" because there is no evidence of there being an occurrence in the first place. They're just saying "OK, for argument sake, if it did happen, how would it have happened". It's just a story, no different than the story of Hercules splitting the straight of Gibraltar with his sword.

2. The whole problem with the Hebrew slaves escaping from Egypt story is..... There were never Hebrew slaves in Egypt. Unlike religion, which is made up, ancient Egypt actually existed. When things actual exist, they leave evidence.

Egypt did a good job of documenting their history. We know who built what, when it was built and we have even found the graves of the workers, because, that's what happens when things actually exist.

[poido123]

Again, this is far from proof. This scientist is basically explaining how it could be possible, not that it happened. I'm not sure how you're trying to use this as proof...


How much "could be possible" do you need before irrefutable proof?

If someone told you they love you and you can't see it, do you need proof of that?

Not everything is about proving the black and white. A lot of religious teachings is based off faith and trust in god.

It is our spirit inside us that carries on when we die(which we cannot see or explain), not our outer shell. Why do people love? Hate? Get angry? all these different emotions? that is our personality and spirit working with our brain. So essentially, our body and spirit are connected in this life, but the spirit detaches once we die.

Our brain limits our understanding of true faith. We are programmed to understand a beginning and an end, not eternal life. We are taught to trust the things we see from the day we are born, not tap into higher understanding. It is of my belief that once we die, our moments of De Ja vu seeing into the future will all make sense. Our brain will comprehend a lot more.

[NumberSix]

Not everything is about proving the black and white. A lot of religious teachings is based off faith and trust in god.
No, it's about having faith that the people who wrote this stuff really did get their information from god.

These people claim that God told them to write this stuff. If you think these people are trustworthy, that's your choice. My guess is god didn't really tell them anything.

[NumberSix]

It is our spirit inside us that carries on when we die(which we cannot see or explain), not our outer shell. Why do people love? Hate? Get angry? all these different emotions? that is our personality and spirit working with our brain. So essentially, our body and spirit are connected in this life, but the spirit detaches once we die.
When has it ever been demonstrated that there even is a "spirit"? :confusedshrug:

[poido123]

No, it's about having faith that the people who wrote this stuff really did get their information from god.

These people claim that God told them to write this stuff. If you think these people are trustworthy, that's your choice. My guess is god didn't really tell them anything.


No worries. I can't change what you think to be true.

Agree to disagree.

[NumberSix]

No worries. I can't change what you think to be true.

Agree to disagree.
Why don't you trust Muhammad? What makes the bible writers so much more trustworthy?

[DonDadda59]

No, it's about having faith that the people who wrote this stuff really did get their information from god.

These people claim that God told them to write this stuff. If you think these people are trustworthy, that's your choice. My guess is god didn't really tell them anything.

People who were deemed 'prophets' in the past would be labeled as paranoid schizophrenics today. People don't even know who wrote the bible or when really, yet they take their claims as irrefutable truth based on absolutely no corroborating evidence? :biggums:

What a bizarre phenomena.


2. The whole problem with the Hebrew slaves escaping from Egypt story is..... There were never Hebrew slaves in Egypt. Unlike religion, which is made up, ancient Egypt actually existed. When things actual exist, they leave evidence.

Bingo.

[Riley Martin]

we really gonn act like radical christians never do messed up stuff?

you should tell that to this poor child that is refusing to be cooked during a christian feast

https://i.imgur.com/6mRkAPs.jpg

Cooked? That looks like a baptism?

[dunksby]

Cooked? That looks like a baptism?
Nah that's clearly a cult of Christian cannibals.

[dunksby]

People who were deemed 'prophets' in the past would be labeled as paranoid schizophrenics today. People don't even know who wrote the bible or when really, yet they take their claims as irrefutable truth based on absolutely no corroborating evidence? :biggums:

What a bizarre phenomena.



Bingo.
And what actually happened was Cyrus the great, king of Persia, emancipated the slave Jews in Babylon after he conquered the city in peace and let them return home. But you'll never hear that story told.

[poido123]

Nah that's clearly a cult of Christian cannibals.


Fried baby.

New delicacy?

:eek:

[dunksby]

Fried baby.

New delicacy?

:eek:
Suckling...

[qrich]

Dena Schlosser (born 1969) is a Plano, Texas woman who, on November 22, 2004, amputated the arms of her eleven-month-old daughter, Margaret, with a knife, who died as a result. Plano police responded to a 9-1-1 call made by concerned workers at a local day care center who had spoken to her earlier that day. The 9-1-1 operator testified that she confessed to her and that the gospel song, "He Touched Me" played in the background. When police arrived, they saw her covered in blood and calmly sitting holding the knife singing Christian hymns.[1] Hours after her arrest, police heard her repeatedly chanting, "Thank you Jesus, thank you Lord."[2]

:rockon:

[sweggeh]

Dena Schlosser (born 1969) is a Plano, Texas woman who, on November 22, 2004, amputated the arms of her eleven-month-old daughter, Margaret, with a knife, who died as a result. Plano police responded to a 9-1-1 call made by concerned workers at a local day care center who had spoken to her earlier that day. The 9-1-1 operator testified that she confessed to her and that the gospel song, "He Touched Me" played in the background. When police arrived, they saw her covered in blood and calmly sitting holding the knife singing Christian hymns.[1] Hours after her arrest, police heard her repeatedly chanting, "Thank you Jesus, thank you Lord."[2]

:rockon:

wtf...damn..

[poido123]

Dena Schlosser (born 1969) is a Plano, Texas woman who, on November 22, 2004, amputated the arms of her eleven-month-old daughter, Margaret, with a knife, who died as a result. Plano police responded to a 9-1-1 call made by concerned workers at a local day care center who had spoken to her earlier that day. The 9-1-1 operator testified that she confessed to her and that the gospel song, "He Touched Me" played in the background. When police arrived, they saw her covered in blood and calmly sitting holding the knife singing Christian hymns.[1] Hours after her arrest, police heard her repeatedly chanting, "Thank you Jesus, thank you Lord."[2]

:rockon:


So a solo nutjob who clearly has mental issues is the same thing as an organisation establishing a caliphate and religious idealogy, looking to exterminate all other religions on a world scale?

It isn't the same, oranges to apples.

[J Shuttlesworth]

So a solo nutjob who clearly has mental issues is the same thing as an organisation establishing a caliphate and religious idealogy, looking to exterminate all other religions on a world scale?

It isn't the same, oranges to apples.
Have you ever heard of the crusades? Tons of blood has been shed to spread Christianity. Even these days, lots of Mexican cartel members wear crosses, and lots of the crime in Africa is done by Christians.

Actually, a lot of the terrorist organizations develop support by brain washing people in poor/uneducated areas. There aren't a ton of terrorists in Dubai or other rich areas with prodominant muslims, just like there aren't a lot of violent muslims in the US. Socio-economics play a huge role in religious extremists. You can see a lot more extremism in poor areas... even in the poor states in the US, there are a lot more Christian fundamentalists. Before Christian nations became wealthier, they were participating in a lot more wars in the name of religion.

[qrich]

So a solo nutjob who clearly has mental issues is the same thing as an organisation establishing a caliphate and religious idealogy, looking to exterminate all other religions on a world scale?

It isn't the same, oranges to apples.

While in prison, Yates stated she had considered killing the children for two years, adding that they thought she was not a good mother and claimed her sons were developing improperly. She told her jail psychiatrist: "It was the seventh deadly sin. My children weren't righteous. They stumbled because I was evil. The way I was raising them, they could never be saved. They were doomed to perish in the fires of hell."[59] She also told her jail psychiatrist that Satan influenced her children and made them more disobedient.[60]

Two nutjobs?

[BasedTom]

Have you ever heard of the crusades? Tons of blood has been shed to spread Christianity. Even these days, lots of Mexican cartel members wear crosses, and lots of the crime in Africa is done by Christians.

Actually, a lot of the terrorist organizations develop support by brain washing people in poor/uneducated areas. There aren't a ton of terrorists in Dubai or other rich areas with prodominant muslims, just like there aren't a lot of violent muslims in the US. Socio-economics play a huge role in religious extremists. You can see a lot more extremism in poor areas... even in the poor states in the US, there are a lot more Christian fundamentalists. Before Christian nations became wealthier, they were participating in a lot more wars in the name of religion.
You do realize that the initial reason for many of these Crusades were because of Muslims further pushing into Europe? They rather impressively conquered the Persians and all of North Africa, well into Iberia. Indeed Muslims would eventually conquer and naturally, exploit their non-converted European subjects, and this is evident when discussing the Balkans.

To act as if medieval Catholic Crusaders were these bloodthirsty warmongers out to plunder and pillage The Levant against peaceful, noble sheep-herding Islamist is the worst kind of revisionist history. (It is usually hardcore antifa, anti-white contrarians who champion this school of thought) It's as ridiculous as super-patriotic americans on fox news saying the reason these radical terrorists commit their crimes against us because "They're jealous of our freedom!" The reality is that these Crusades and wars happen for a multitude of complex reasons- very many which are deemed completely unacceptable in today's world, but could definitely be justified when you look at the context of the situation.

[poido123]

While in prison, Yates stated she had considered killing the children for two years, adding that they thought she was not a good mother and claimed her sons were developing improperly. She told her jail psychiatrist: "It was the seventh deadly sin. My children weren't righteous. They stumbled because I was evil. The way I was raising them, they could never be saved. They were doomed to perish in the fires of hell."[59] She also told her jail psychiatrist that Satan influenced her children and made them more disobedient.[60]

Two nutjobs?


That is what we call a "Cult". It has no basis of the Christian faith or its teachings at all.

[poido123]

Have you ever heard of the crusades? Tons of blood has been shed to spread Christianity. Even these days, lots of Mexican cartel members wear crosses, and lots of the crime in Africa is done by Christians.

Actually, a lot of the terrorist organizations develop support by brain washing people in poor/uneducated areas. There aren't a ton of terrorists in Dubai or other rich areas with prodominant muslims, just like there aren't a lot of violent muslims in the US. Socio-economics play a huge role in religious extremists. You can see a lot more extremism in poor areas... even in the poor states in the US, there are a lot more Christian fundamentalists. Before Christian nations became wealthier, they were participating in a lot more wars in the name of religion.



1095-1291.

So we are drawing relevance of a Christian black mark to a completely different time in history now? We are not even talking about the last 100 years here. The whole society was completely different, you cannot even begin to compare what society is now, to what it was back then.

Apples to oranges again.

[qrich]

That is what we call a "Cult". It has no basis of the Christian faith or its teachings at all.

That is what you call "extreme" religion.

[NumberSix]

1095-1291.

So we are drawing relevance of a Christian black mark to a completely different time in history now? We are not even talking about the last 100 years here. The whole society was completely different, you cannot even begin to compare what society is now, to what it was back then.

Apples to oranges again.
What exactly was so terrible about the crusades?

[poido123]

Have you ever heard of the crusades? Tons of blood has been shed to spread Christianity. Even these days, lots of Mexican cartel members wear crosses, and lots of the crime in Africa is done by Christians.

Actually, a lot of the terrorist organizations develop support by brain washing people in poor/uneducated areas. There aren't a ton of terrorists in Dubai or other rich areas with prodominant muslims, just like there aren't a lot of violent muslims in the US. Socio-economics play a huge role in religious extremists. You can see a lot more extremism in poor areas... even in the poor states in the US, there are a lot more Christian fundamentalists. Before Christian nations became wealthier, they were participating in a lot more wars in the name of religion.


Another thing, if you're going to bring the crusades up, you might as well refer to the current Palestine v Israel conflict. Hardly "spreading Christianity" but more claiming their rightful ownership of holy land. As we all know, that claim is why the war is still happening.

[poido123]

What exactly was so terrible about the crusades?


Depends what side you're on. Bloodshed

[J Shuttlesworth]

1095-1291.

So we are drawing relevance of a Christian black mark to a completely different time in history now? We are not even talking about the last 100 years here. The whole society was completely different, you cannot even begin to compare what society is now, to what it was back then.

Apples to oranges again.
How is the time period all that relevant? Was the religion not the same? Was the bible not the same? If Christianity were really an ultra peaceful religion, there wouldn't be tons of bloodshed in the name of it regardless of the era. And way to ignore the main point. Do you really think it's just a coincidence that extremism/religious violence is more common in poor areas as opposed to wealthy areas? Or how more modern/progressive Muslim areas lack the same extremism that the poor areas have? You really don't think these things are related at all?

[qrich]

How is the time period all that relevant? Was the religion not the same? Was the bible not the same? If Christianity were really an ultra peaceful religion, there wouldn't be tons of bloodshed in the name of it regardless of the era. And way to ignore the main point. Do you really think it's just a coincidence that extremism/religious violence is more common in poor areas as opposed to wealthy areas? Or how more modern/progressive Muslim areas lack the same extremism that the poor areas have? You really don't think these things are related at all?

I actually agree with this guy :wtf:

[poido123]

How is the time period all that relevant? Was the religion not the same? Was the bible not the same? If Christianity were really an ultra peaceful religion, there wouldn't be tons of bloodshed in the name of it regardless of the era. And way to ignore the main point. Do you really think it's just a coincidence that extremism/religious violence is more common in poor areas as opposed to wealthy areas? Or how more modern/progressive Muslim areas lack the same extremism that the poor areas have? You really don't think these things are related at all?


My post from last page:

"Another thing, if you're going to bring the crusades up, you might as well refer to the current Palestine v Israel conflict. Hardly "spreading Christianity" but more claiming their rightful ownership of holy land. As we all know, that claim is why the war is still happening."


What? Funded by Saudis and oil in which they have seized. I'd hardly call the terrorist group "poor".

I do agree with you on nearly all those points though. However, there is also a direct religious flaw and breakdown in Islamic attitudes and teaching.

[Nick Young]

How is the time period all that relevant? Was the religion not the same? Was the bible not the same? If Christianity were really an ultra peaceful religion, there wouldn't be tons of bloodshed in the name of it regardless of the era. And way to ignore the main point. Do you really think it's just a coincidence that extremism/religious violence is more common in poor areas as opposed to wealthy areas? Or how more modern/progressive Muslim areas lack the same extremism that the poor areas have? You really don't think these things are related at all?
Hmm that's not really true, about 2000 members of IS are from Western Europe and lead cushy lives. Many of the leadership in IS are millionaires who were raised wealthy. Not to mention their rich, private sponsors from Saudi Arabia who are helping to fund the madness. If anything IS brings super rich and poor together.

[Nick Young]

Have you ever heard of the crusades? Tons of blood has been shed to spread Christianity. Even these days, lots of Mexican cartel members wear crosses, and lots of the crime in Africa is done by Christians.

Actually, a lot of the terrorist organizations develop support by brain washing people in poor/uneducated areas. There aren't a ton of terrorists in Dubai or other rich areas with prodominant muslims, just like there aren't a lot of violent muslims in the US. Socio-economics play a huge role in religious extremists. You can see a lot more extremism in poor areas... even in the poor states in the US, there are a lot more Christian fundamentalists. Before Christian nations became wealthier, they were participating in a lot more wars in the name of religion.
Just justifying PC white knight:facepalm

The crusades were 600 years ago. Also the Muslims did some really phucked up things in the Crusades (even though they didn't start them) Have you heard of the Childrens Crusade, which ended in Muslims enslaving thousands and thousands of children? Lettuce talk about the present. Slavery today for example, is a bigger industry in muslim countries then it is in non-muslim countries.

[Trollsmasher]

How is the time period all that relevant? Was the religion not the same? Was the bible not the same? If Christianity were really an ultra peaceful religion, there wouldn't be tons of bloodshed in the name of it regardless of the era. And way to ignore the main point. Do you really think it's just a coincidence that extremism/religious violence is more common in poor areas as opposed to wealthy areas? Or how more modern/progressive Muslim areas lack the same extremism that the poor areas have? You really don't think these things are related at all?
:facepalm at least inform yourself before commenting on this shit

the "progressive Muslims" are the worst

they are radicalized, but with an actual intel

[NumberSix]

How is the time period all that relevant? Was the religion not the same? Was the bible not the same? If Christianity were really an ultra peaceful religion, there wouldn't be tons of bloodshed in the name of it regardless of the era. And way to ignore the main point. Do you really think it's just a coincidence that extremism/religious violence is more common in poor areas as opposed to wealthy areas? Or how more modern/progressive Muslim areas lack the same extremism that the poor areas have? You really don't think these things are related at all?
The Crusades were mostly about defending from Islamic invasion. How is that bad? What would you have them do? Not defend themselves from invasion? Allow themselves to be conquered?

[BoutPractice]

The Crusades were mostly about defending from Islamic invasion. How is that bad? What would you have them do? Not defend themselves from invasion? Allow themselves to be conquered?
That's one part of the picture.

Another is domestic politics: competition between the papacy and secular leaders, and the necessity of exporting internal violence.

Wars typically start at home... on both sides.

[NumberSix]

That's one part of the picture.

Another is domestic politics: competition between the papacy and secular leaders, and the necessity of exporting internal violence.

Wars typically start at home... on both sides.
Exporting? Christians were on defense. They weren't exporting anything.

[Godzuki]

3/4's of that list can't even read :rolleyes:

on a related note surprised mayweather isn't on it.

[Patrick Chewing]

Evolution is a fact. I have no ability to pretend that it isn't true. I know it is.

If you're not familiar with the science, I can understand why you don't know that it's true. I do know the science though. I can't choose to not know it's true.


Man you tapdanced the hell out of that question with that answer. You may need to change your avatar to good ol' Barack.

Can you link me or record a video on the Youtube showing me proof that humans were once single-celled organisms that lived in the ocean.