Does Tristan Thompson Suck at Basketball?

[JtotheIzzo]

He has averaged near 12 points and 9.5 boards the last couple of years, he is only 23 years old, he seems to play with energy, defends well and has a positive attitude, but the prevailing opinion is that he is no good.

His production is better than other young bigs:

Jonas Valenciunas
Larry Sanders
Amir Johnson
Robin Lopez

but the general consensus is he is a below average or subpar player.

Why is that?

[Cocaine80s]

because cleveland never made the playoffs since he was drafted

i think he is very underrated though

[JtotheIzzo]

because cleveland never made the playoffs since he was drafted

i think he is very underrated though

I feel you, but I have a MASSIVE Canada Basketball bias so I cannot trust my judgement on him.

[Cocaine80s]

I feel you, but I have a MASSIVE Canada Basketball bias so I cannot trust my judgement on him.
i think some cleveland fan posted about how underrated he was. i think it mightve been RBA but i forget

[TheMilkyBarKid]

He has averaged near 12 points and 9.5 boards the last couple of years, he is only 23 years old, he seems to play with energy, defends well and has a positive attitude, but the prevailing opinion is that he is no good.

His production is better than other young bigs:

Jonas Valenciunas
Larry Sanders
Amir Johnson
Robin Lopez

but the general consensus is he is a below average or subpar player.

Why is that?
From what I've seen he is a bit raw offensively, but he rebounds well and has defensive. potential.
I certainly wouldn't take him before valenciunas or Sanders though.

[Milbuck]

Healthy Sanders's impact >>>>>>>>>>>>> TT.

Sander is one of the most impactful defensive bigs in the game when he's healthy. Hopefully he has a bounce back season and shows it.

[navy]

He has averaged near 12 points and 9.5 boards the last couple of years, he is only 23 years old, he seems to play with energy, defends well and has a positive attitude, but the prevailing opinion is that he is no good.

His production is better than other young bigs:

Jonas Valenciunas
Larry Sanders
Amir Johnson
Robin Lopez

but the general consensus is he is a below average or subpar player.

Why is that?


:biggums:

[navy]

He puts up stats on a horrible team. He cant create for himself and his hustle isnt nearly at the level of someone like Faried.

He sucks. For now. He's only 23. He can get better. And he is a horrible defender. Not sure why you think suggest otherwise.

[chocolatethunder]

He has averaged near 12 points and 9.5 boards the last couple of years, he is only 23 years old, he seems to play with energy, defends well and has a positive attitude, but the prevailing opinion is that he is no good.

His production is better than other young bigs:

Jonas Valenciunas
Larry Sanders
Amir Johnson
Robin Lopez

but the general consensus is he is a below average or subpar player.

Why is that?
He is one of the worst defenders at his positions according to advanced stats. I think it was him and Thaddeus Young and maybe Love. I don't remember who the players were but Thompson was one of them.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

decent player. nothing special.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Healthy Sanders's impact >>>>>>>>>>>>> TT.

Sander is one of the most impactful defensive bigs in the game when he's healthy. Hopefully he has a bounce back season and shows it.
Your guys could suprise a few people if Henson and Sanders are healthy.

[Xiao Yao You]

Why would you ask if he sucks and than say he has averaged close to a double double? Don't think you can suck and do that.:confusedshrug:

[Droid101]

Healthy Sanders's impact >>>>>>>>>>>>> TT.

Sander is one of the most impactful defensive bigs in the game when he's healthy. Hopefully he has a bounce back season and shows it.
Bingo. Check out their advanced defense charts. Sanders is light years ahead.

[buddha]

he's only decent at rebounding. he sucks at everything else. doesn't deserve more than 18 minutes off the bench on this new Cav's roster.

[NattyPButter]

he's a less athletic kenneth Faried

[DukeDelonte13]

he's a less athletic kenneth Faried


He is less athletic but i think he destroyed faried the last time they matched up, i think he put a 20/10 game...


Thompson is a much better defender than Faried. I don't know what Navy is smoking when it comes to saying he's a terrible defender..

TT always draws the toughest big man defensive assignment night in and night out, and he is one of the best bigs IN THE LEAGUE at allowing the fewest field goal attempts at the rim.

This is where people point to advanced defensive metrics and say "well TT sucks at defense". it doesn't account for plays where TT rushes to the rim and tries to cover somebody else's mistake. it doesn't account all the times big men pass out of the post because Thompson doesn't give up ground. It doesn't count all the times TT doesn't allow opposing bigs to get good position.

I'll say this, only STUPID cavs fans think he sucks. He's following a similar career trajectory as Andy V. Andy was not the passer or finisher that he is now when he was TT's age. Andy is taller, but TT is a lot stronger.

He's never going to be a big you run your offense through, but he already is pretty good and can become an excellent complementary piece that fits on any roster.

[All Net]

Chances are this opinion changes rather soon.

[andremiller07]

He's on the same level as Trevor Booker and probably less athletic, pretty much all the bigs from that draft class are overrated as shit including Jonas/Kantar and whoever else and when you watch them play they can't really do anything that impressive. They are just average, TT right now is a good bench player average at best starting PF. Imo if you put Jason Thompson (same chances) on that Cavs team he would do better and be better at both ends and JT is another good bench big average starting big.

Jeff Adrien when he got playing team on a crap team put up 14/10 on 51% in 8 games in April and 10/7 after the post break in 24mins of play

[LootOP]

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nba-extensions-2014-tristan-thompson-markieff-morris-brandon-knight-alec-burks-jimmy-butler-nikola-vucevic/

[QUOTE]Tristan Thompson, Cleveland Cavaliers

Cleveland Cavaliers v Oklahoma City Thunder

Let

[MP.Trey]

:biggums: @ the people saying he's a shit defender. He's definitely above average defensively in both effort and ability. The offensive end is where he could really improve, developing more than one go to move and learning to move the ball. What's next? Gonna tell me Andy V is a bad defender?

[RedBlackAttack]

I've always felt that Tristan's game was best suited for a backup center position on a good team. It is almost unfair to judge him playing alongside Varejao as a PF in the frontcourt. They have similar impact on the game and it was just a redundant situation. It also destroyed our spacing and crowded the lane because neither man is going to step outside of 10 feet and knock down jumpers consistently.

As far as Andy's offensive game has come over the years, defenses would much rather give him 12 to 15-footers all night and crowd the paint for Kyrie/Dion drives.

Tristan is not good outside of the paint offensively unless he is setting screens.

With all of that being said, both Tristan and Andy should flourish playing alongside Love and with all of the shooters that now dot this lineup. Tristan is best served as a 'garbage man' on a good team... essentially the role Faried played on Team USA. That kind of guy is only going to look good with the right guys around him.

I also have no idea where this 'Tristan can't defend' nonsense is coming from. I guess that is being based solely on statistics, because watching the guy play every night for the last three years, he's a solid on-ball defender. Not great, but solid... certainly better than Faried (and he has eaten Faried up head to head several times).

He could stand to improve his help D, but that has gone for the whole team over the last few years. He's not much of a rim protector at this stage.

He's a well above average rebounder, has a great motor and is a great locker room guy. I'm really happy for Tristan because he hasn't complained publicly one time despite being in some awful situations, individually and team-wise. Now, he finds himself in an ideal spot... energy big off the bench who should have a nice impact on the most marketed team in the NBA.

[DukeDelonte13]

I've always felt that Tristan's game was best suited for a backup center position on a good team. It is almost unfair to judge him playing alongside Varejao as a PF in the frontcourt. They have similar impact on the game and it was just a redundant situation. It also destroyed our spacing and crowded the lane because neither man is going to step outside of 10 feet and knock down jumpers consistently.

As far as Andy's offensive game has come over the years, defenses would much rather give him 12 to 15-footers all night and crowd the paint for Kyrie/Dion drives.

Tristan is not good outside of the paint offensively unless he is setting screens.

With all of that being said, both Tristan and Andy should flourish playing alongside Love and with all of the shooters that now dot this lineup. Tristan is best served as a 'garbage man' on a good team... essentially the role Faried played on Team USA. That kind of guy is only going to look good with the right guys around him.

I also have no idea where this 'Tristan can't defend' nonsense is coming from. I guess that is being based solely on statistics, because watching the guy play every night for the last three years, he's a solid on-ball defender. Not great, but solid... certainly better than Faried (and he has eaten Faried up head to head several times).

He could stand to improve his help D, but that has gone for the whole team over the last few years. He's not much of a rim protector at this stage.

He's a well above average rebounder, has a great motor and is a great locker room guy. I'm really happy for Tristan because he hasn't complained publicly one time despite being in some awful situations, individually and team-wise. Now, he finds himself in an ideal spot... energy big off the bench who should have a nice impact on the most marketed team in the NBA.

The bad a defense thing is a myth perpetrated by those who only look at stats and don't actually watch games. I don't think I have to tell you that TT still has a fair share of hatred within cavs fandom, people are still salty they didn't take Jonas.

As for the help defense, simply put, there was no help defense during the Byron years and we both know how complex MB's system can be, especially when it's not being run properly by everyone on the floor at once.

I think TT is going to flourish this year. Remember how many easy looks at the rim JJ Hickson got w/ Lebron? Now we have a guy to fill that role who is not only a far more capable defender, but is also far more intelligent and a much harder worker. JJ wasn't getting those looks because of his quicks or hops.

I like TT. I think his developmental trajectory has been steady and solid. Griffin has emphasized in numerous interviews that TT needs to stop worrying about his jumper and start focusing on what he does best: Hustle, defend, and rebound.

[navy]

Im not sure why Cavs fans think he is a good defender. lol, I didnt need stats to tell you his defensive impact was minimal to nonexistent, you could tell that by watching the games. Nobody was surprised when he was near the bottom in rim protection.

As for destroying Faried, I honestly could care less about a head to head match up like that between two people who cannot create for themselves ad arent exactly defensive stoppers. Humorously enough they dont even need to defend each other. They both cant score. I only brought him up as a player who at the moment his ceiling will be around.

Im not gonna sit here and act like I watched the Cavs play 82 games last year, but Ive seen enough Thompson to say that he is nothing special at the moment. Below average player to average player.

Looking up his stats right now he just missed the average 15 per mark at 14.9. Perfectly describes him.

[Sakkreth]

He has averaged near 12 points and 9.5 boards the last couple of years, he is only 23 years old, he seems to play with energy, defends well and has a positive attitude, but the prevailing opinion is that he is no good.

His production is better than other young bigs:

Jonas Valenciunas
Larry Sanders
Amir Johnson
Robin Lopez

but the general consensus is he is a below average or subpar player.

Why is that?

:biggums:

[Lebron23]

I expect him to be a productive player off the bench. Expect him to start if Andy Got hurt again.

[DukeDelonte13]

Im not sure why Cavs fans think he is a good defender. lol, I didnt need stats to tell you his defensive impact was minimal to nonexistent, you could tell that by watching the games. Nobody was surprised when he was near the bottom in rim protection.

As for destroying Faried, I honestly could care less about a head to head match up like that between two people who cannot create for themselves ad arent exactly defensive stoppers. Humorously enough they dont even need to defend each other. They both cant score. I only brought him up as a player who at the moment his ceiling will be around.

Im not gonna sit here and act like I watched the Cavs play 82 games last year, but Ive seen enough Thompson to say that he is nothing special at the moment. Below average player to average player.

Looking up his stats right now he just missed the average 15 per mark at 14.9. Perfectly describes him.

you haven't watch enough of him if you think he's a poor defender. Unlike you I can sit here and say i've watched all 82 games, every single year of his career.

[HurricaneKid]

:biggums: @ the people saying he's a shit defender. He's definitely above average defensively in both effort and ability. The offensive end is where he could really improve, developing more than one go to move and learning to move the ball. What's next? Gonna tell me Andy V is a bad defender?

Nope. Sorry. Lousy defender (and offensive player too). And Andy is a VERY good defender. And offensive player. Look when your team decides to not only scrap your shot but to have you start from scratch shooting with the other hand you are not a good offensive player either.

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2014.html
One player in the NBA that played 7500 possessions had a worse RAPM. No bigs played 7500 poss and were as bad.

The league is really starting to fracture at the 4. Having a secondary big inherently clogs up the lane; those who can't take their defender out of the lane (shoot) and cannot provide rim protection are all but worthless. There are a number of guys like this in the league (Lowe pointed to Humphries, D Blair, etc) and they always end up getting smaller deals than you would expect because their games are not conducive to productive play in today's game.

[dannywpt]

The plays in the NBA so he probably doesn't suck at basketball

[HurricaneKid]

you haven't watch enough of him if you think he's a poor defender. Unlike you I can sit here and say i've watched all 82 games, every single year of his career.

He's fine when people try to post him but he offers no rim protection at all. And help defense and rim protection are handily the most import aspects of a big's defense.

He is a good guy who is well liked. But his offensive game is in "transition" and his defensive game is lacking. Neither are at an acceptable level. I think LeBron and fam would be doing themselves a disservice if they sign him to a sizable extension.

He really should be playing C. But you have to have a defensive presence at that position. And he just doesn't offer that.

[RedBlackAttack]

The bad a defense thing is a myth perpetrated by those who only look at stats and don't actually watch games. I don't think I have to tell you that TT still has a fair share of hatred within cavs fandom, people are still salty they didn't take Jonas.

As for the help defense, simply put, there was no help defense during the Byron years and we both know how complex MB's system can be, especially when it's not being run properly by everyone on the floor at once.

I think TT is going to flourish this year. Remember how many easy looks at the rim JJ Hickson got w/ Lebron? Now we have a guy to fill that role who is not only a far more capable defender, but is also far more intelligent and a much harder worker. JJ wasn't getting those looks because of his quicks or hops.

I like TT. I think his developmental trajectory has been steady and solid. Griffin has emphasized in numerous interviews that TT needs to stop worrying about his jumper and start focusing on what he does best: Hustle, defend, and rebound.
I'm with you on all the points you made. I have always liked Tristan as both a player and a good locker room guy. I can guarantee you that, with LeBron showing these young guys the kind of hardword it takes to make it big in the league, TT will be right next to him putting in the long hours of work on his game to get there.

As you probably remember, I was speculating a couple of months ago that TT would probably be a casualty of circumstance and might be traded. The reason really had nothing to do with how good he was as a player. It was because (a) he is going to need a new contract next offseason and (b) at the time, I thought there was going to have to be an eventual decision made about the future of our PF situation and TT might be the odd man out.

I've always said that he'd make a terrific big off the bench on a good team who could play both the center and PF spots if he has the right kind of spacing and a shooter at the 4 or 5 spots. All of a sudden, that is exactly what the Cavs have become. I think this team is really perfect for him right now. And, I'm glad he's still a Cavalier.


you haven't watch enough of him if you think he's a poor defender. Unlike you I can sit here and say i've watched all 82 games, every single year of his career.

This is really what cracks me up about the current situation. We've been discussing these guys in detail for three straight years. The threads are all well documented on this site. There is a pretty nice group of hardcore Cavs fans on this site that have literally watched Tristan play in ALL of his 224 professional games. Every minute he has played in the NBA, we've been watching. He's played in 82 games for two consecutive years, btw.

Yet, here comes the cavalry.

As soon as James signs on the bottom line, his fans are going to start telling the people who've actually been watching him closely for three years what his game is all about.

The people who've been studying Tristan's strengths and weaknesses for three years are telling you that his defense isn't a weakness and that you shouldn't be basing your assumptions on his statistics. Maybe you should listen. Just maybe.


Nope. Sorry. Lousy defender (and offensive player too). And Andy is a VERY good defender. And offensive player. Look when your team decides to not only scrap your shot but to have you start from scratch shooting with the other hand you are not a good offensive player either.

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2014.html
One player in the NBA that played 7500 possessions had a worse RAPM. No bigs played 7500 poss and were as bad.

The league is really starting to fracture at the 4. Having a secondary big inherently clogs up the lane; those who can't take their defender out of the lane (shoot) and cannot provide rim protection are all but worthless. There are a number of guys like this in the league (Lowe pointed to Humphries, D Blair, etc) and they always end up getting smaller deals than you would expect because their games are not conducive to productive play in today's game.

Speak of the devil. Wait, is that a link to basketball-reference? And, you even read a Zach Lowe article? Really?!

Oh, well... that totally beats having actually analyzed the guy's game yourself for years.

[SwishSquared]

I'm with you on all the points you made. I have always liked Tristan as both a player and a good locker room guy. I can guarantee you that, with LeBron showing these young guys the kind of hardword it takes to make it big in the league, TT will be right next to him putting in the long hours of work on his game to get there.

As you probably remember, I was speculating a couple of months ago that TT would probably be a casualty of circumstance and might be traded. The reason really had nothing to do with how good he was as a player. It was because (a) he is going to need a new contract next offseason and (b) at the time, I thought there was going to have to be an eventual decision made about the future of our PF situation and TT might be the odd man out.

I've always said that he'd make a terrific big off the bench on a good team who could play both the center and PF spots if he has the right kind of spacing and a shooter at the 4 or 5 spots. All of a sudden, that is exactly what the Cavs have become. I think this team is really perfect for him right now. And, I'm glad he's still a Cavalier.



This is really what cracks me up about the current situation. We've been discussing these guys in detail for three straight years. The threads are all well documented on this site. There is a pretty nice group of hardcore Cavs fans on this site that have literally watched Tristan play in ALL of his 224 professional games. Every minute he has played in the NBA, we've been watching. He's played in 82 games for two consecutive years, btw.

Yet, here comes the cavalry.

As soon as James signs on the bottom line, his fans are going to start telling the people who've actually been watching him closely for three years what his game is all about.

The people who've been studying Tristan's strengths and weaknesses for three years are telling you that his defense isn't a weakness and that you shouldn't be basing your assumptions on his statistics. Maybe you should listen. Just maybe.



Speak of the devil. Wait, is that a link to basketball-reference? And, you even read a Zach Lowe article? Really?!

Oh, well... that totally beats having actually analyzed the guy's game yourself for years.
I agree with your premise that he's suited to a bench role, as what he brings to the table is best used in a reserve role. The "bad defense" thing I think boils down to a stat for opponent FG% at rim, where Tristan, Thaddeus Young, Love, and Pekovic were ranked as the worst bigs in the NBA, given a certain # of minutes played. Lowe pointed out he works very hard on the defensive end. He doesn't offer rim protection but it's not like he doesn't try, either.

[Y2ktors]

He's OK, definitely was a reach in the draft.

[El Gato Negro]

:oldlol:

[oarabbus]

Thompson vs. Taj Gibson - who would you rather have?