Top 10 players drafted in the 90's

[JohnnySic]

1.)Tim Duncan
2.)Shaq
3.)Kobe
4.)KG
5.)Iverson
6.)Chris Webber
7.)Dirk Nowitzki
8.)Grant Hill
9.)Gary Payton
10.)Jason Kidd

Honerable mention: Alonzo Mourning, Penny Hardaway, Paul Pierce, Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Dikembe Mutombo, Ray Allen, Chauncey Billups, Elton Brand

[dr.hee]

1.)Tim Duncan
2.)Shaq
3.)Kobe
4.)KG
5.)Iverson
6.)Chris Webber
7.)Dirk Nowitzki
8.)Grant Hill
9.)Gary Payton
10.)Jason Kidd

Honerable mention: Alonzo Mourning, Penny Hardaway, Paul Pierce, Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Dikembe Mutombo, Ray Allen, Chauncey Billups, Elton Brand

They're not in order, right?

[fpliii]

Nash?

[Sakkreth]

They're not in order, right?
I think he did it in order, but yes Dirk is way too low. He should be number 4.

[dr.hee]

I think he did it in order, but yes Dirk is way too low. He should be number 4.

That's what I thought. Then I saw Chris Webber at 6. So not in order. :confusedshrug:

[elementally morale]

I'll give you tiers.


Shaq / Kobe / Duncan

Dirk / Iverson / Garnett / Hill / Kidd / Nash

Webber / Pierce / McGrady / Carter / Payton


Others.

[L.Kizzle]

1. Kenny Anderson
2. Vin Baker
3. Latrell Sprewell
4. Eddie Jones
5. Allan Houston
6. Antoine Walker
7. Rumeal Robinson
8. Oliver Miller
9. Keith Van Horne
10. Pete Chilcutt

[L.Kizzle]

I'll give you tiers.


Shaq / Kobe / Duncan

Dirk / Iverson / Garnett / Hill / Kidd / Nash

Webber / Pierce / McGrady / Carter / Payton


Others.
Jermaine O'Neal and Ray Allen always get left out of this group. They were right there with them.

Also, Payton is in the wring tier.

[Cold soul]

I'll give you tiers.


Shaq / Kobe / Duncan

Dirk / Iverson / Garnett / Hill / Kidd / Nash

Webber / Pierce / McGrady / Carter / Payton


Others.

Well said. I agree with your tiers.

[Jlamb47]

Shaq,Kobe,Duncan
Garnett,Dirk,Iverson,Mcgrady,Kidd,Nash,Hill
Pierce,Allen,Oneal,Webber,Payton,Carter.Billups,Mo urning,

[JohnnySic]

I forgot Nash. :facepalm

Yes, I like Webber better than Dirk. I like his versatility better.

[dr.hee]

Yes, I like Webber better than Dirk. I like his versatility better.

Yes, I like Dirk better than Webber. I like his playoff performances better.

Webber from age 23 to 30 (I even excluded his bad years) in 56 games:

21.3 ppg, 9.7 rpg, 4.0 apg

45.8 fg%, 25.7 3pt%, 62.6 ft%, 49.2 TS%, 46.3 eFG%


Dirk from age 23 to 32 in 114 games:

26.1 ppg, 10.6 rpg, 2.7 apg

46.7 fg%, 39.9 3pt%, 89.3 ft%, 58.5 TS%, 49.6 eFG%

Also, 2 finals, 1 MVP, 1 FMVP...

So...you're joking, right?

[JohnnySic]

Yes, I like Dirk better than Webber. I like his playoff performances better.

Webber from age 23 to 30 (I even excluded his bad years) in 56 games:

21.3 ppg, 9.7 rpg, 4.0 apg

45.8 fg%, 25.7 3pt%, 62.6 ft%, 49.2 TS%, 46.3 eFG%


Dirk from age 23 to 32 in 114 games:

26.1 ppg, 10.6 rpg, 2.7 apg

46.7 fg%, 39.9 3pt%, 89.3 ft%, 58.5 TS%, 49.6 eFG%

Also, 2 finals, 1 MVP, 1 FMVP...

So...you're joking, right?
No. Webber was a better post player, better passer, better rebounder, better shot blocker, more athletic, etc.

Dirk is a better shooter and basically that's it.

[Milbuck]

No. Webber was a better post player, better passer, better rebounder, better shot blocker, more athletic, etc.

Dirk is a better shooter and basically that's it.
:facepalm

[L.Kizzle]

:facepalm
Technically he's right. Webber was better at all those thing. But Dirk got dat ring and MVP which is the unwritten rule to be ranked ahead of said player.

[dr.hee]

No. Webber was a better post player, better passer, better rebounder, better shot blocker, more athletic, etc.

Dirk is a better shooter and basically that's it.

In his whole career, Webber had only two postseasons with more rebounds than Dirk's career average of 10 per game. Nowitzki averaged 11.4 rebounds per game in the playoffs from age 23 to 30. Webber is at 9.7 in the same time span.
In the regular season? Webber was the better rebounder. In the playoffs? Dirk was a better rebounder. Just a fact.

And Webber a better post player? Well compared to Dirk until 2007 absolutely. The 08 till today version of Dirk? Nah.

[Collie]

Webber was my favorite player of the early 00's but he was absolutely NOT better than Dirk. Webber in Sacramento was more of a pick and pop guy, and his post game was rather rudimentary and consister mostly of short hooks. Dirk is a better post player, especially later in his career.

Webber was a better offensive rebounder and passer, and that's it.

[kennethgriffin]

#1 kobe
#2 shaq
#3 tim
#4 garnett
#5 dirk
#6 iverson
#7 nash
#8 kidd
#9 payton
#10 pierce


honorable mention

ray
webber
mcgrady
vince
alonzo

[Random_Guy]

#1 kobe
#2 shaq
#3 tim
#4 garnett
#5 dirk
#6 iverson
#7 nash
#8 kidd
#9 payton
#10 pierce


honorable mention

ray
webber
mcgrady
vince
alonzo

good list, but peirce should be higher up imo

[Cold soul]

#1 kobe
#2 shaq
#3 tim
#4 garnett
#5 dirk
#6 iverson
#7 nash
#8 kidd
#9 payton
#10 pierce


honorable mention

ray
webber
mcgrady
vince
alonzo


Duncan should be ahead of Shaq as much as it pains me to say. You have a solid list but Pierce should be little higher up IMO.

[kennethgriffin]

Duncan should be ahead of Shaq as much as it pains me to say. You have a solid list but Pierce should be little higher up IMO.


the way i see it is

tims slightly ahead of shaq in sccomplishments

but individually... shaq probably had like 10 years better than any of duncans

i mean... this isnt even about peaks or primes. this is about a better decade long player period

like 10 years of near 30/12

duncans only had like one year over 21 points i think



when i prop up kobes career. its not like i'm talking about a guy that didnt have a prime of near 30ppg/5+rpg/5+apg for 13 years

[T_L_P]

the way i see it is

tims slightly ahead of shaq in sccomplishments

but individually... shaq probably had like 10 years better than any of duncans

i mean... this isnt even about peaks or primes. this is about a better decade long player period

like 10 years of near 30/12

duncans only had like one year over 21 points i think



when i prop up kobes career. its not like i'm talking about a guy that didnt have a prime of near 30ppg/5+rpg/5+apg for 13 years



I probably should even ask because it's a fact that you're a troll who shifts the goalpost to fit your agenda, but how are you gonna say "Shaq>Duncan because of stats" and not do the exact same for Duncan and Kobe?

Here's prime Duncan (98-08, PPG+RPG+APG+SPG+BPG-TOV / PER / WS/48) 40.1 / 26.6 PER / .222 WS/48

Kobe (01-10): 38.8 / 23.5 / .178 WS/48

Why the double standard? And don't bring up any sort of achievement/arbitrary month stretch. Can you address Kobe not being better statistically than Duncan, therefore he should be ahead on your list?

[kennethgriffin]

I probably should even ask because it's a fact that you're a troll who shifts the goalpost to fit his agenda, but how are you gonna say "Shaq>Duncan because of stats" and not do the exact same for Duncan and Kobe?

Here's prime Duncan (98-08, PPG+RPG+APG+SPG+BPG-TOV / PER / WS/48) 40.1 / 26.6 PER / .222 WS/48

Kobe (01-10): 38.8 / 23.5 / .178 WS/48

Why the double standard? And don't bring up any sort of achievement/arbitrary month stretch. Can you address Kobe not being better statistically than Duncan, therefore he should be ahead on your list?



dis ***** wit his winsharz

:roll:


i bet TLP thinks 20/12 on 50% is better than 30/12 on 60% cuz of dunc's win shares



:roll:

and its not just stats... shaq/kobe/duncans accomplishments are all great and top 10... but only 2 of these guys were overly dominant historically/ individually aswell for most of their careers

[kennethgriffin]

kobe and shaq can both dominate a game without scoring allot

so can duncan


but only kobe and shaq can go out and give you 60-70 if they wanted



thats where duncan will always come up short.. him scoring 30 was a historic night


kobe vs duncan or shaq vs duncan is like wilt vs russell.... if wilt also had 11 rings


know what i mean?

[T_L_P]

dis ***** wit his winsharz

:roll:


i bet TLP thinks 20/12 on 50% is better than 30/12 on 60% cuz of dunc's win shares



:roll:

and its not just stats... shaq/kobe/duncans accomplishments are all great and top 10... but only 2 of these guys were overly dominant historically/ individually aswell for most of their careers


Congrats, you did it again.

Why even mention Shaq's name? He was better than Duncan individually; the stats prove it...as the do Duncan in regards to Kobe.

And here you are...with a response that makes the LeBron alts look good.

"Individual dominance..." Qualify that. I posted those numbers. Just go by the raw ones if you like. Still not better than Duncan's. :oldlol:

:facepalm

[kennethgriffin]

Congrats, you did it again.

Why even mention Shaq's name? He was better than Duncan individually; the stats prove it...as the do Duncan in regards to Kobe.

And here you are...with a response that makes the LeBron alts look good.

"Individual dominance..." Qualify that. I posted those numbers. Just go by the raw ones if you like. Still not better than Duncan's. :oldlol:

:facepalm
kobe vs duncan or shaq vs duncan is like wilt vs russell.... if wilt also had 11 rings


know what i mean?

it aint just about accomplishments

[T_L_P]

Forget the stats if you like.

Without Phil: bench-warmer / injured shitbag

Without an All-NBA player: First Round fodder.

Duncan was called a superstar before he knew Pop's name. He didn't have another All-NBA teammate on any of his first four title teams.

So:

stats, Duncan
non-statistical record: Duncan

Kobe has "DA Switch" though.

[T_L_P]

kobe vs duncan or shaq vs duncan is like wilt vs russell.... if wilt also had 11 rings


know what i mean?

it aint just about accomplishments

Are you retarded? My post said "FORGET ACCOMPLISHMENTS."

Duncan has better stats than Kobe. So, by your logic, he's the better player.

Glad we can agree. :cheers:

[kennethgriffin]

TLP is the only guy i know that thinks duncans stats were better than kobes

from 2001-2013 kobe averaged


28.1ppg, 5.7rpg, 5.2apg, 1.6spg on 55.7 TS%

with around 130 games of 40+

around 40 games of 50+

like 5 games of 60+

1 game of 80+


from 2001-2013 duncan averaged

19.8ppg, 11.0rpg, 3.0apg, 2.2 bpg on 50.6 TS%

with like 2 games of 40+

no games of 50+

no games of 60+

and especially no damn games of 80+


literally since 2001 kobe has shat up and down, left and right alll the F*CK over tim duncan

especially head to head

please stop TLP

:facepalm

[T_L_P]

TLP is the only guy i know that thinks duncans stats were better than kobes

from 2001-2013 kobe averaged


28.1ppg, 5.7rpg, 5.2apg, 1.6spg on 55.7 TS%

with around 130 games of 40+

around 40 games of 50+

like 5 games of 60+

1 game of 80+


from 2001-2013 duncan averaged

19.8ppg, 11.0rpg, 3.0apg, 2.2 bpg on 50.6 TS%

with like 2 games of 40+

no games of 50+

no games of 60+

and especially no damn games of 80+


literally since 2001 kobe has shat up and down, left and right alll the F*CK over tim duncan

especially head to head

please stop TLP

:facepalm



You've purposefully ommitted three of Duncan's prime years to suit your agenda.

Here is prime Duncan (98-08) in the Playoffs: 23.8 PPG / 12.5 PPG / 3.5 APG / 0.7 SPG / 2.8 BPG / 3.2 TOV / .560 TS%

Kobe from 01-10: 28.8 PPG / 5.7 RPG / 5.4 APG / 1.5 SPG / 0.6 BPG / 3.2 TOV / .5T8 TS%

Add those up? Duncan comes out with 40.1 and Kobe has 38.8.

It's a FACT than prime Duncan had better stats than prime Kobe.

But, of course, you skew the years to make it Kobe, and you choose the regular season because his production decreases when things get harder, and Duncan's get better.

:oldlol: :oldlol:

[kennethgriffin]

You've purposefully ommitted three of Duncan's prime years to suit your agenda.

Here is prime Duncan (98-08) in the Playoffs: 23.8 PPG / 12.5 PPG / 3.5 APG / 0.7 SPG / 2.8 BPG / 3.2 TOV / .560 TS%

Kobe from 01-10: 28.8 PPG / 5.7 RPG / 5.4 APG / 1.5 SPG / 0.6 BPG / 3.2 TOV / .5T8 TS%

Add those up? Duncan comes out with 40.1 and Kobe has 38.8.

It's a FACT than prime Duncan had better stats than prime Kobe.

But, of course, you skew the years to make it Kobe, and you choose the regular season because he production decreases when things get harder, and Duncan's get better.

:oldlol: :oldlol:



ummmm...


duncan from 1998-2014

19.9ppg, 11.1rpg, 3.1apg, 2.2bpg on 50.7 TS%



duncan from 2001-2013

19.8ppg, 11.0rpg, 3.0apg, 2.2 bpg on 50.6 TS%


OH
MY

GOD...

TLP FOUND ME OUT PEOPLE

IT WAS MY AGENDA TO HIDE DUNCANS

EXTRA 0.1 points
EXTRA 0.1 assists
and
MINUS 0.1 TS%


YOU GOT ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[T_L_P]

Kenneth just buried himself there.

Boiled down:

40.1 > 38.8

:cheers:

Kenneth avoiding Kobe's Playoff stats like the plague. When he does mention them he's gonna boost them up a few points and choose arcane years to suit his agenda.

I posted both of their stats in their primes, Duncan won, and you couldn't even respond. If that's not admitting defeat I don't know what is. :oldlol:

Be entertaining for once: address those stats I posted. Not stats when Duncan was 38 years old and Kobe was only 33. Their primes. 98-08, not 98-2014 or some stupid shit.

[kennethgriffin]

i will admit TLP... duncans stats are pretty close to kobes if you dont count seasons. and just take a 10 year span and value some kind of advanced formula that favors bigs due to shooting percentage or more rebounds ( even though thats just expected of a taller guy who plays next to the rim )


HOWEVER.... if you take into consideration 1 key piece of evidence during that 10 year stretch in the playoffs.. i think you'l find that kobe has something over duncan that can't be argued



a) winning 4 out of 5 playoff series vs duncan from 2001-2010

and

b) taking 3 of them when duncan had home court advantage


















:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

[K Xerxes]

i will admit TLP... duncans stats are pretty close to kobes if you dont count seasons. and just take a 10 year span and value some kind of advanced formula that favors bigs due to shooting percentage or more rebounds ( even though thats just expected of a taller guy who plays next to the rim )


HOWEVER.... if you take into consideration 1 key piece of evidence during that 10 year stretch in the playoffs.. i think you'l find that kobe has something over duncan that can't be argued



a) winning 4 out of 5 playoff series vs duncan from 2001-2010

and

b) taking 3 of them when duncan had home court advantage


















:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

If I recall correctly, basketball is played 5 on 5 and centers dont usually guard shooting guards (and vice versa). Only in kenny's imaginary universe...

[kennethgriffin]

Kenneth avoiding Kobe's Playoff stats


2001 4-0 sweet vs spurs

kobe = 33/7/7 on 51% fg's

2002 4-1 vs spurs

kobe = 26/5/5 on 45% fg's

2003 2-4 vs spurs

kobe = 32/5/4 on 43% fg's

2004 4-2 backdoor sweep vs spurs

kobe = 26/6/6 on 46% fg's

2008 4-1 vs spurs

kobe = 29/5/4 on 53% fg's


combined thats

18 wins - 8 losses

4 series wins - 1 series loss

29.2ppg, 5.6rpg, 5.2apg

[kennethgriffin]

If I recall correctly, basketball is played 5 on 5 and centers dont usually guard shooting guards (and vice versa). Only in kenny's imaginary universe...


half of kobes points came finishing over/through duncan while leaving his ball sweat on his chin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQxgHgRh95Y

[kenny817]

No. Webber was a better post player, better passer, better rebounder, better shot blocker, more athletic, etc.

Dirk is a better shooter and basically that's it.

Lol terrible post/opinion

Negged

[JohnnySic]

Webber was my favorite player of the early 00's but he was absolutely NOT better than Dirk. Webber in Sacramento was more of a pick and pop guy, and his post game was rather rudimentary and consister mostly of short hooks. Dirk is a better post player, especially later in his career.

Webber was a better offensive rebounder and passer, and that's it.
Meh. A clear case of "what have you done for me lately-its". People forget how good Webber was. He was only half a notch below TD and KG. So is Dirk, so its arguable. But I prefer Webber's more well-rounded game to Dirk's shooting and clutch play.

Oh and btw, Sacramento Webber was the worst version of Webber, but that's the one people choose to remember for some reason (probably becuase they're too young to remember any other version). Webber in the 90's was an absolute monster, especially coming out of college. He had more raw talent and physical tools than even KG and TD.