guys who averaged more points than Tim Duncan ever did in any single season

[kennethgriffin]

1. Wilt Chamberlain* 50.36 1961-62 PHW
2. Wilt Chamberlain* 44.83 1962-63 SFW
3. Wilt Chamberlain* 38.39 1960-61
4. Wilt Chamberlain* 37.60 1959-60
5. Michael Jordan* 37.09 1986-87 CHI
6. Wilt Chamberlain* 36.85 1963-64
7. Rick Barry* 35.58 1966-67
8. Kobe Bryant 35.40 2005-06
9. Michael Jordan* 34.98 1987-88
10. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 34.84 1971-72
11. Elgin Baylor* 34.77 1960-61 LAL
12. Wilt Chamberlain* 34.71 1964-65 TOT
13. Bob McAdoo* 34.52 1974-75
14. Elgin Baylor* 33.99 1962-63
Tiny Archibald* 33.99 1972-73 KCO
16. Michael Jordan* 33.57 1989-90 CHI
17. Wilt Chamberlain* 33.53 1965-66 PHI
18. George Gervin* 33.14 1979-80 SAS
19. Allen Iverson 33.01 2005-06
20. Bernard King* 32.89 1984-85
21. Michael Jordan* 32.58 1992-93
22. Michael Jordan* 32.51 1988-89
23. George Gervin* 32.29 1981-82
24. Tracy McGrady 32.09 2002-03
25. Kevin Durant 32.01 2013-14
26. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 31.66 1970-71
27. Walt Bellamy* 31.58 1961-62 CHP
28. Kobe Bryant 31.56 2006-07 LAL
29. Michael Jordan* 31.46 1990-91 CHI
30. Oscar Robertson* 31.39 1963-64 CIN
31. Allen Iverson 31.38 2001-02 PHI
32. LeBron James 31.37 2005-06 CLE
33. Jerry West* 31.34 1965-66 LAL
34. Oscar Robertson* 31.29 1965-66 CIN
35. Jerry West* 31.20 1969-70 LAL
36. Jack Twyman* 31.17 1959-60 CIN
37. Bob Pettit* 31.14 1961-62 STL
38. Pete Maravich* 31.14 1976-77 NOJ
39. Bob McAdoo* 31.12 1975-76 BUF
40. Moses Malone* 31.11 1981-82 HOU
41. Allen Iverson 31.08 2000-01 PHI
42. Karl Malone* 30.98 1989-90
43. Jerry West* 30.97 1964-65
44. Jerry West* 30.80 1961-62 LAL
45. Oscar Robertson* 30.78 1961-62
46. Dominique Wilkins* 30.73 1987-88
47. Allen Iverson 30.69 2004-05 PHI
48. Adrian Dantley* 30.65 1980-81
49. Rick Barry* 30.62 1974-75
50. Adrian Dantley* 30.61 1983-84 UTA
51. Bob McAdoo* 30.55 1973-74
52. Oscar Robertson* 30.53 1966-67
53. Oscar Robertson* 30.49 1960-61 CIN
54. Oscar Robertson* 30.39 1964-65 CIN
55. Michael Jordan* 30.38 1995-96 CHI
56. Dominique Wilkins* 30.33 1985-86 ATL
Adrian Dantley* 30.33 1981-82
58. World B. Free 30.22 1979-80 SDC
59. Dwyane Wade 30.20 2008-09 MIA
60. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 30.16 1972-73 MIL
61. Kevin Durant 30.15 2009-10 OKC
62. Michael Jordan* 30.05 1991-92 CHI
63. Kobe Bryant 30.01 2002-03 LAL
64. LeBron James 30.00 2007-08 CLE
65. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 29.98 1974-75 MIL
66. Larry Bird* 29.93 1987-88 BOS
67. Dominique Wilkins* 29.87 1992-93 ATL
68. Adrian Dantley* 29.83 1985-86 UTA
69. Alex English* 29.80 1985-86 DEN
70. David Robinson* 29.79 1993-94 SAS
71. Jerry Stackhouse 29.75 2000-01 DET
72. LeBron James 29.71 2009-10 CLE
73. Shaquille O'Neal 29.67 1999-00 LAL
74. Michael Jordan* 29.65 1996-97 CHI
75. Elgin Baylor* 29.63 1959-60 MNL
76. George Gervin* 29.56 1978-79 SAS
77. Richie Guerin* 29.53 1961-62 NYK
78. Mark Aguirre 29.49 1983-84 DAL
79. Kiki Vandeweghe 29.42 1983-84 DEN
80. Shaquille O'Neal 29.35 1993-94 ORL
81. Gilbert Arenas 29.32 2005-06 WAS
82. Shaquille O'Neal 29.30 1994-95 ORL
83. Bob Pettit* 29.24 1958-59 STL
84. Spencer Haywood 29.23 1972-73 SEA
85. Oscar Robertson* 29.17 1967-68 CIN
86. Karl Malone* 29.07 1988-89 UTA
87. Karl Malone* 29.05 1990-91 UTA
88. Dominique Wilkins* 29.04 1986-87 ATL
89. Carmelo Anthony 28.94 2006-07 DEN
90. John Havlicek* 28.86 1970-71 BOS
91. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 28.79 1969-70 MIL
92. World B. Free 28.77 1978-79 SDC
93. Michael Jordan* 28.74 1997-98 CHI
94. Shaquille O'Neal 28.72 2000-01 LAL
95. Larry Bird* 28.69 1984-85 BOS
96. Jerry West* 28.67 1963-64 LAL
Jerry West* 28.67 1966-67 LAL
98. Elvin Hayes* 28.66 1970-71 SDR
99. Carmelo Anthony 28.66 2012-13 NYK
100. Patrick Ewing* 28.62 1989-90 NYK
101. Alex English* 28.60 1986-87
102. Kobe Bryant 28.50 2000-01 LAL
103. Gilbert Arenas 28.45 2006-07 WAS
104. LeBron James 28.44 2008-09
105. Allen Iverson 28.41 1999-00 PHI
106. George Mikan* 28.41 1950-51 MNL
107. Bernard King* 28.39 1990-91
108. Elvin Hayes* 28.38 1968-69 SDR
109. Bob Pettit* 28.37 1962-63 STL
110. Alex English* 28.37 1982-83 DEN
111. Kobe Bryant 28.33 2007-08 LAL
112. Shaquille O'Neal 28.32 1997-98 LAL
113. Charles Barkley* 28.30 1987-88 PHI
Oscar Robertson* 28.30 1962-63 CIN
George Mikan* 28.30 1948-49 MNL
116. Tiny Archibald* 28.22 1971-72 CIN
117. Michael Jordan* 28.21 1984-85 CHI
118. Carmelo Anthony 28.16 2009-10 DEN
119. Kevin Durant 28.15 2012-13 OKC
120. Dominique Wilkins* 28.07 1991-92 ATL
121. Larry Bird* 28.05 1986-87
122. Karl Malone* 28.05 1991-92
123. Kevin Durant 28.03 2011-12
124. Tracy McGrady 28.03 2003-04
125. Purvis Short 28.03 1984-85
126. Adrian Dantley* 27.99 1979-80 UTA
127. Alex English* 27.93 1984-85
128. Walt Bellamy* 27.91 1962-63
129. Bob Pettit* 27.89 1960-61
130. Kobe Bryant 27.86 2011-12
131. Hakeem Olajuwon* 27.85 1994-95
132. George Yardley* 27.79 1957-58 DET
133. Moses Malone* 27.77 1980-81 HOU
134. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 27.74 1975-76 LAL
135. Pete Maravich* 27.72 1973-74 ATL
136. Kevin Durant 27.71 2010-11 OKC
137. Karl Malone* 27.66 1987-88 UTA
138. David Robinson* 27.63 1994-95 SAS
139. Vince Carter 27.60 2000-01 TOR
140. Charles Barkley* 27.60 1990-91 PHI
141. Allen Iverson 27.59 2002-03 PHI
142. Kobe Bryant 27.56 2004-05
143. Elvin Hayes* 27.51 1969-70
144. Shaquille O'Neal 27.48 2002-03 LAL
145. Dale Ellis 27.48 1988-89 SEA
146. John Havlicek* 27.46 1971-72 BOS
147. Carmelo Anthony 27.43 2013-14 NYK
148. Karl Malone* 27.43 1996-97 UTA
149. George Mikan* 27.43 1949-50 MNL
150. Bob Pettit* 27.38 1963-64 STL
151. Dominique Wilkins* 27.37 1984-85
152. Kobe Bryant 27.35 2012-13 LAL
153. LeBron James 27.33 2006-07
154. Hakeem Olajuwon* 27.30 1993-94
155. George Gervin* 27.22 1977-78 SAS
156. Clyde Drexler* 27.22 1988-89 POR
157. Dwyane Wade 27.20 2005-06 MIA
158. Shaquille O'Neal 27.19 2001-02 LAL
159. LeBron James 27.19 2004-05 CLE
160. Tom Chambers 27.17 1989-90 PHO
161. David Thompson* 27.15 1977-78 DEN
162. Elgin Baylor* 27.15 1964-65 LAL
163. LeBron James 27.15 2011-12 MIA
164. LeBron James 27.13 2013-14 MIA
165. Chris Webber 27.11 2000-01 SAC
166. Dave Bing* 27.11 1967-68 DET
167. George Gervin* 27.09 1980-81 SAS
168. Lou Hudson 27.05 1972-73 ATL
169. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 27.05 1973-74 MIL
170. Pete Maravich* 27.04 1977-78
171. Karl Malone* 27.04 1997-98 UTA
172. Karl Malone* 27.04 1992-93 UTA
173. Dave Bing* 26.99 1970-71
174. Walt Bellamy* 26.99 1963-64 BAL
175. Kobe Bryant 26.99 2009-10
176. Clyde Drexler* 26.98 1987-88 PO
177. Julius Erving* 26.92 1979-80 PHI
178. Hakeem Olajuwon* 26.89 1995-96
179. Kiki Vandeweghe 26.86 1986-87
180. Kobe Bryant 26.84 2008-09
181. Lou Hudson 26.83 1970-71
182. Tracy McGrady 26.82 2000-01
183. LeBron James 26.79 2012-13
184. Paul Pierce 26.78 2005-06
185. Glen Rice 26.77 1996-97
186. Allen Iverson 26.75 1998-99
187. Dominique Wilkins* 26.73 1989-90
188. LeBron James 26.72 2010-11
189. Michael Redd 26.72 2006-07
190. Karl Malone* 26.67 1994-95
191. Kiki Vandeweghe 26.66 1982-83
192. Billy Knight 26.60 1976-77
193. Elgin Baylor* 26.60 1966-67
194. Patrick Ewing* 26.59 1990-91
195. Adrian Dantley* 26.58 1984-85
196. Dwyane Wade 26.56 2009-10
197. Shaquille O'Neal 26.56 1995-96
Dirk Nowitzki 26.56 2005-06
199. Michael Adams 26.55 1990-91
200. Bob McAdoo* 26.54 1977-78
201. Chris Mullin* 26.54 1988-89
202. Carmelo Anthony 26.52 2005-06
203. Alex English* 26.52 1988-89
204. Kelly Tripucka 26.48 1982-83
205. Tiny Archibald* 26.46 1974-75
206. Paul Arizin* 26.44 1958-59 PHW
207. Ray Allen 26.44 2006-07
208. Alex English* 26.43 1983-84
209. Allen Iverson 26.39 2007-08
210. Bernard King* 26.32 1983-84
211. Shaquille O'Neal 26.31 1998-99
212. Allen Iverson 26.29 2006-07
213. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 26.24 1976-77
214. Dominique Wilkins* 26.24 1988-89
215. Spencer Haywood 26.22 1971-72 SEA
216. Shaquille O'Neal 26.20 1996-97 LAL
217. George Gervin* 26.19 1982-83 SAS
218. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 26.19 1980-81 LAL
219. Paul Pierce 26.15 2001-02 BOS
220. Bob Pettit* 26.14 1959-60
221. Pete Maravich* 26.11 1972-73
222. Kevin Love 26.10 2013-14
223. Billy Cunningham* 26.10 1969-70
224. Hakeem Olajuwon* 26.10 1992-93
225. Kevin McHale* 26.08 1986-87
226. Dirk Nowitzki 26.05 2004-05
227. Kevin Love 26.04 2011-12
228. Amar'e Stoudemire 26.00 2004-05
Joe Fulks* 26.00 1948-49
Elgin Baylor* 26.00 1967-68
231. Dominique Wilkins* 25.99 1993-94
232. Gail Goodrich* 25.94 1971-72 LAL
233. Dominique Wilkins* 25.94 1990-91
234. James Harden 25.94 2012-13
235. Paul Pierce 25.92 2002-03
236. David Thompson* 25.91 1976-77
237. Chris Mullin* 25.89 1992-93
238. George Gervin* 25.88 1983-84
239. Sam Jones* 25.88 1964-65
240. Pete Maravich* 25.87 1975-76
241. Mitch Richmond* 25.86 1996-97
242. Dirk Nowitzki 25.85 2008-09
243. Bob McAdoo* 25.85 1976-77
244. Moses Malone* 25.84 1979-80
245. Dale Ellis 25.84 1987-88 SEA
246. Earl Monroe* 25.81 1968-69
247. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 25.81 1977-78
248. Larry Bird* 25.79 1985-86
249. Jack Twyman* 25.79 1958-59
250. Danny Granger 25.79 2008-09

[kennethgriffin]

dat brad daugherty esq 19ppg career average doesnt matter. with all those dpoty award n all... wait he doesnt have any to make up for it.. nevermind

but he does have that 20ppg on 40% finals mvp in 2005 ( even though manu averaged 20 on 60% :confusedshrug: ) but he was a better defender!

and who cares if a midget frenchy top 70 all time player won finals mvp over duncan... or that a top 4-500 player all time 2nd year role player won finals mvp over duncan... that isnt nearly as shameful as averaging 25/5/5 and losing mvps to prime shaq

[moe94]

03 Duncan is a better player than Kobe ever was. Just accept it and move on.

[kennethgriffin]

03 Duncan is a better player than Kobe ever was. Just accept it and move on.

kobe scored more points in 12 minutes than duncan ever did in any game during 2003


shush

and duncans coach said kobe was better than duncan at defense during his prime too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liIYL7YcePI

[Smook A.]

Why are you looking at just ppg?

[I<3NBA]

NBA players who are rapists:

1. Kobe Bryant

[kennethgriffin]

Why are you looking at just ppg?



because putting the ball in the hole is half the f*cking game

and the other half both guys are 1st team all defense. one with the edge as a play maker ( due to position/skill ). the other with an edge as a rebounder ( due to position/height )

[Asukal]

Players with the most seasons of at least 15 ppg and 10 rpg:

1 Barkley = 14
2 Tim Duncan = 13
3 Moses Malone = 13
4 Shaquille O'Neal = 13
5 Kareem = 12
6 Wilt Chamberlain = 12
7 Elvin Hayes = 12
8 Hakeem Olajuwon = 12
9 Elgin Baylor = 11
10 Bob Pettit = 11

:confusedshrug: :oldlol:

[qrich]

Why's this idiot is not banned yet?

[oarabbus]

Duncan - #1 all time tied with Shaq and Moses Malone for most seasons 17/10

[kennethgriffin]

Players with the most seasons of at least 15 ppg and 10 rpg:

1 Barkley = 14
2 Tim Duncan = 13
3 Moses Malone = 13
4 Shaquille O'Neal = 13
5 Kareem = 12
6 Wilt Chamberlain = 12
7 Elvin Hayes = 12
8 Hakeem Olajuwon = 12
9 Elgin Baylor = 11
10 Bob Pettit = 11

:confusedshrug: :oldlol:

15-10 wouldnt even make the allstar game though

:roll:

maybe a replacement in the east during the late 2000's .. i dunno i think i saw magloure in there.. antonio davis too

:oldlol: :roll:


great... so duncan is more consistantly "good" in a longevity aspect

OK LOL

[kennethgriffin]

Duncan - #1 all time tied with Shaq and Moses Malone for most seasons 17/10


another "pretty good.. almost really good average for a reserve allstar " LOL

again... duncan with the longevity of consistantly good stats

LOL WHO CARES


meanwhile guys like shaq and hakeem go for 30-15

[Asukal]

15-10 wouldnt even make the allstar game though

:roll:

maybe a replacement in the east during the late 2000's .. i dunno i think i saw magloure in there.. antonio davis too

:oldlol: :roll:


great... so duncan is more consistantly "good" in a longevity aspect

OK LOL

Also won a title at age 38 and has a legit claim to the FMVP altho it wasn't given to him. Let's see Kobe win a ring at that age. :roll: :lol

If he does win one, he would probably be a sidekick again just like when he started. :oldlol: :lol :roll:

[oarabbus]

32pts
20rebs
6ast
3 stl
7 blk
11-17, 65% FG

in the '03 Finals vs the Nets. highest peak achieved in a finals game ever.

[kennethgriffin]

32pts
20rebs
6ast
3 stl
7 blk
11-17, 65% FG

in the '03 Finals vs the Nets. highest peak achieved in a finals game ever.

LOL kobe dropped 30+ in 12 minutes more times than duncans scored 30+ in a whole game

fack outa hur

[Asukal]

LOL kobe dropped 30+ in 12 minutes more times than duncans scored 30+ in a whole game

fack outa hur


Kobe was a sidekick more than Duncan's been his whole career too. :rolleyes:

[Warfan]

32pts
20rebs
6ast
3 stl
7 blk
11-17, 65% FG

in the '03 Finals vs the Nets. highest peak achieved in a finals game ever.

Do you have 03' Duncan's playoff stats? He was amazing that year, had a near quad-dub to close out that series too iirc.

[kennethgriffin]

duncan wit dat amaizing 20 rebound game vs todd macoulaugh


:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[kennethgriffin]

Do you have 03' Duncan's playoff stats? He was amazing that year, had a near quad-dub to close out that series too iirc.

duncan in 2003 averaged a whopping 24ppg in the playoffs


c'est incrouyable!!!!!!! sacre bleu! un light saber!!!! shvrroooom shvrooooooom
\

[T_L_P]

kenneth's acting like this all leads to Kobe being the superior statistical player or something. You can take away Kobe's bench warming years and end it just past his prime (33 years old, 1999-2012) and he still doesn't have better stats than Duncan throughout his career (38 years old, 1998-2014).

You've gotta admire how he can warp the facts so much, even if everyone sees through him. Duncan's 5-10 times the defender? "Ah, they're both 1st teamers. its kl." :oldlol:

Let's just establish this: that 03 Finals statline the poster above mentioned is better than any of Kobe's Finals games. Griff will never admit it, but it's not like he can refute it, either.

[oarabbus]

duncan in 2003 averaged a whopping 24ppg in the playoffs


c'est incrouyable!!!!!!! sacre bleu! un light saber!!!! shvrroooom shvrooooooom
\

...and 15 rebounds, 5 assists, and 3 blocks :roll:

[Warfan]

This ngga melting down so hard he switching languages and shit

[Asukal]

kenneth's acting like this all leads to Kobe being the superior statistical player or something. You can take away Kobe's bench warming years and end it just past his prime (33 years old, 1999-2012) and he still doesn't have better stats than Duncan throughout his career (38 years old, 1998-2014).

You've gotta admire how he can warp the facts so much, even if everyone sees through him. Duncan's 5-10 times the defender? "Ah, they're both 1st teamers. its kl." :oldlol:

Let's just establish this: that 03 Finals statline the poster above mentioned is better than any of Kobe's Finals games. Griff will never admit it, but it's not like he can refute it, either.

He's just mad Duncan is now in argument for top 5 all time. :roll: :oldlol: :lol

[kennethgriffin]

kenneth's acting like this all leads to Kobe being the superior statistical player or something. You can take away Kobe's bench warming years and end it just past his prime (33 years old, 1999-2012) and he still doesn't have better stats than Duncan throughout his career (38 years old, 1998-2014).

You've gotta admire how he can warp the facts so much, even if everyone sees through him. Duncan's 5-10 times the defender? "Ah, they're both 1st teamers. its kl." :oldlol:

Let's just establish this: that 03 Finals statline the poster above mentioned is better than any of Kobe's Finals games. Griff will never admit it, but it's not like he can refute it, either.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liIYL7YcePI


"prime kobe is more talented than prime tim duncan on offense and defense" - Sanantonio spurs head coach greg popovich

[T_L_P]

Do you have 03' Duncan's playoff stats? He was amazing that year, had a near quad-dub to close out that series too iirc.

25/15/5/3/.577 TS%. :cheers:

[oarabbus]

This ngga melting down so hard he switching languages and shit


:lol

And yeah, Duncan's closeout game was 21/20/10ast/8blk :bowdown:

[T_L_P]

Kenny, as a friend, I'm asking you to get help.

How can a grown ass man be so angry about a basketball player? You've even admitted that the only reason you have anything against him is because he's a threat to Kobe. Even more, you said you hope the talent in the league stays dyer because you don't want Kobe's legacy taking any sort of hit.

Sort it out.

[kennethgriffin]

4>2 head to head

kobe averaging 30ppg on duncan for all 6 series combined

with more than 20 facial duncans on that flat footed rim protector

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQxgHgRh95Y




:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[kennethgriffin]

Kenny, as a friend, I'm asking you to get help.

How can a grown ass man be so angry about a basketball player? You've even admitted that the only reason you have anything against him is because he's a threat to Kobe. Even more, you said you hope the talent in the league stays dyer because you don't want Kobe's legacy taking any sort of hit.

Sort it out.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_career_achievements_by_Kobe_Bryant


Sporting News NBA Athlete of the Decade (2000s)[93]


TNT NBA Player of the Decade (2000s)[94]

Sports Illustrated Top 20 Male Athlete of the Decade (2000s) #7 (the only NBA player in the top 10)[96]

Ranked #1 in Dime Magazine's 2012 list of the top 10 greatest players since the year 2000 (published in the September 2012 issue)[98]




:roll:

[kennethgriffin]

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/11090247/all-nba-players



SportsNation Rankings

1.Michael Jordan

2.Magic Johnson

3.Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

4.Larry Bird

5.Wilt Chamberlain

6.Bill Russell

7.Kobe Bryant

8.LeBron James

9.Tim Duncan

10.Shaquille O'Neal



:roll:

[kennethgriffin]

when are we as educated basketball minds going to admit the fact that duncan choking was the deciding factor in the 2013 nba finals.

not ray allens shot

the series wasnt over yet

this was to tie the game. the title was every bit as possible in game 7. and duncan blew it in buckner type fashion.




honestly.. whats the difference between this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18caPNisP2U


and this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T4ZUK-NFKc


:roll:

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

Both slam-dunk top 10 players, but if we're gonna argue stats why not argue advanced stats too? Duncan has a decisive edge in win shares, wins produced, RAPM, and PER. Ditto for the playoffs.

With that said I would take Kobe for a single playoff game or series. But they're very close in the all-time rankings. Foolish to argue otherwise.

[SamuraiSWISH]

9. Michael Jordan* 34.98 1987-88

This one was 35.0 ...

[BoutPractice]

Funny, I don't see Bill Russell, Magic Johnson, and Kevin Garnett in this list...

[kennethgriffin]

Funny, I don't see Bill Russell, Magic Johnson, and Kevin Garnett in this list...

russell averaged 25 rebounds, blocked around 10 shots a game and won 11 titles to make up for his deficiencies

magic johnson was a point guard

as for garnett... i don't really understand why you're bringing up some dude who isnt top 20 let alone top 10 all time

but yeah. scoring aint everything. i agree. but it is HALF THE GAME

[K Xerxes]

5 rings, 3 FMVP, 2 MVP

>

5 rings, 2 FMVP, 1 MVP

No matter how many awards or first team accomplishments regular season warrior Bean has which you continue to spam, Duncan is greater.

[dr.hee]

5 rings, 3 FMVP, 2 MVP

>

5 rings, 2 FMVP, 1 MVP

No matter how many awards or first team accomplishments regular season warrior Bean has which you continue to spam, Duncan is greater.

It's quite telling that Kenny is intensifying his Duncan vs. Kobe spam efforts since Duncan won his 5th ring and is still going strong, while past his prime injured Bryant killed the Lakers for the forseeable future with a ridiculous contract.

Dude is just insecure as f*ck :roll:

[kennethgriffin]

5 rings, 3 FMVP, 2 MVP

>

5 rings, 2 FMVP, 1 MVP

No matter how many awards or first team accomplishments regular season warrior Bean has which you continue to spam, Duncan is greater.


it aint just about accomplishments. theres a reason why we put wilt over guys like magic/duncan/shaq/kobe


well kobe in comparison to duncan is like wilt being compared to russell... if wilt also had 11 rings

get my drift?

[kennethgriffin]

But again, it's really not.

Duncan has better prime stats than Kobe. I posted them. It's irrefutable. It's a fact ingrained in basketball history.

No amount of switching years / solely focusing on the regular season will change that.

Duncan has:

-Better stats
-Better advanced stats
-More FMVPs
-More MVPs
-More All-Defensive Teams

Kobe has:

-More All-NBA Teams
-More All-Star selections
-More All-Star MVPs

In b4 you address one part of the post because you have no answer.

sorry i dont buy it. advanced stats saying "catching a ball bouncing off the rim a few feet by standing under it 5 more times a game because you're 7 inches taller and play 3 positions closer to the rim is more difficult than scoring 15,000 more points and 2000 more assists while being 5 years young"...

take your advanced efficiency sh*t somewhere else LOL

and LOL @ you listing "more defensive teams"

kobe has more "BEST defense at your position awards ( i.e. 1st teams )

duncan has a few more SECOND best defense at your position awards...LOL ( i.e. 2nd teams )

which is funny cause duncan could make F/F/C and kobe could only make G/G

:lol


btw... LOL@

2001 4-0 sweet vs spurs

kobe = 33/7/7 on 51% fg's

2002 4-1 vs spurs

kobe = 26/5/5 on 45% fg's

2003 2-4 vs spurs

kobe = 32/5/4 on 43% fg's

2004 4-2 backdoor sweep vs spurs

kobe = 26/6/6 on 46% fg's

2008 4-1 vs spurs

kobe = 29/5/4 on 53% fg's


combined thats

18 wins - 8 losses

4 series wins - 1 series loss

29.2ppg, 5.6rpg, 5.2apg





:roll: :roll: :roll:

[NZStreetBaller]

lol this thread is basically a way to prove the obvious..... Kobe > Duncan.

[T_L_P]

sorry i dont buy it. advanced stats saying "catching a ball bouncing off the rim a few feet by standing under it 5 more times a game because you're 7 inches taller and play 3 positions closer to the rim is more difficult than scoring 15,000 more points and 2000 more assists while being 5 years young"...

take your advanced efficiency sh*t somewhere else LOL

and LOL @ you listing "more defensive teams"

kobe has more "BEST defense at your position awards ( i.e. 1st teams )

duncan has a few more SECOND best defense at your position awards...LOL ( i.e. 2nd teams )

which is funny cause duncan could make F/F/C and kobe could only make G/G

:lol


btw... LOL@

2001 4-0 sweet vs spurs

kobe = 33/7/7 on 51% fg's

2002 4-1 vs spurs

kobe = 26/5/5 on 45% fg's

2003 2-4 vs spurs

kobe = 32/5/4 on 43% fg's

2004 4-2 backdoor sweep vs spurs

kobe = 26/6/6 on 46% fg's

2008 4-1 vs spurs

kobe = 29/5/4 on 53% fg's


combined thats

18 wins - 8 losses

4 series wins - 1 series loss

29.2ppg, 5.6rpg, 5.2apg





:roll: :roll: :roll:

Done it again. Forget advanced stats. Raw stats are still better. You've avoided that one this whole time.

Since second teams / second bests don't count, Duncan is automatically ahead of Kobe: 3 Finals MVP = three rings as best player. Kobe has 2. Also, Duncan never made a Defensive Team at Center. He was an F every time, so he has two spots like Kobe. In fact, it's a hindrance because he may have gotten some votes as an F and others as a C.

99: 29/11/3/3

01: 23/12/4/4

02: 29/17/5/4

03: 28/12/5

04: 21/12/3/3

08: 22/17/5/2

Wow, who knew listing series stats would be this easy? :eek:

[T_L_P]

lol this thread is basically a way to prove the obvious..... Kobe > Duncan.

You said you didn't know who Robinson was, meaning you didn't watch prime Duncan or Kobe.

How can you have any clue as to who is better?

[Stringer Bell]

Is this what happens when you lack father figure and role models as a kid, and eventually grow up to lack self-esteem as a result?

You spend hours blindly defending some guy who doesn't know you exist, because you like his game and think you can identify with them?

It makes you feel better to think that your hero is better than he really is?

What a sad reflection on society.

It's not a knock on Kobe as a basketball player just because he is not as great as Tim Duncan, and that Duncan had the better peak as well.

Kobe is still great.

[NZStreetBaller]

You said you didn't know who Robinson was, meaning you didn't watch prime Duncan or Kobe.

How can you have any clue as to who is better?

Read the thread. Kenneth makes a very good argument. seems pretty damn obvious to me.......

[T_L_P]

Is this what happens when you lack father figure and role models as a kid, and eventually grow up to lack self-esteem as a result?

You spend hours blindly defending some guy who doesn't know you exist, because you like his game and think you can identify with them?

It makes you feel better to think that your hero is better than he really is?

What a sad reflection on society.

It's not a knock on Kobe as a basketball player just because he is not as great as Tim Duncan, and that Duncan had the better peak as well.

Kobe is still great.

The thing is, I have no problem with someone picking Kobe. He's an alltime great.

But when his fans make anti-[insert player name] threads because they don't like the amount of shine they are getting, it becomes a little sad -- it really makes the cool Lakers fans on this board look bad.

Thread got shut down as soon as those Magic and Russell mentions came in. OP just had to deflect from that though because it doesn't suit his little agenda.

[T_L_P]

Read the thread. Kenneth makes a very good argument. seems pretty damn obvious to me.......

World B. Free > Russell, Duncan, Magic?

[dr.hee]

Is this what happens when you lack father figure and role models as a kid, and eventually grow up to lack self-esteem as a result?

You spend hours blindly defending some guy who doesn't know you exist, because you like his game and think you can identify with them?

It makes you feel better to think that your hero is better than he really is?

What a sad reflection on society.

It's not a knock on Kobe as a basketball player just because he is not as great as Tim Duncan, and that Duncan had the better peak as well.

Kobe is still great.

Yup, that's the point of superstar worship. An easy source of self-esteem for simple people. You don't have to work for it, you don't even have to get your lazy ass off the couch. The mere act of identifying with a successful person is enough for some less intelligent folks to give themselves the illusion of self-worth and a sense of accomplishment. So if I say Duncan > Kobe, what Griff really hears in his mind is I > you. And that makes him angry.

Repped

[BoutPractice]

He's not making a good argument.

He's basically saying that Kobe is a better scorer (or at least more of a scorer, if you really want to get argumentative, but I don't think that will be necessary) than Tim Duncan.

OK, I think a lot of people can get behind that.

The next question, then is: so what? Everyone already knew that. It's not going to change anyone's opinion on who the better/greater player is, because only those who already think Kobe wins that argument are going to use scoring as the relevant variable for a comparison... knowing, precisely, that it puts them at an advantage... which is what the OP just did.

[NZStreetBaller]

He's not making a good argument.

He's basically saying that Kobe is a better scorer (or at least more of a scorer, if you really want to get argumentative, but I don't think that will be necessary) than Tim Duncan.

OK, I think a lot of people can get behind that.

The next question, then is: so what? Everyone already knew that. It's not going to change anyone's opinion on who the better/greater player is, because only those who already think Kobe wins that argument are going to use scoring as the relevant variable for a comparison... knowing, precisely, that it puts them at an advantage... which is what the OP just did.

Its common knowledge that kobe is the better scorer but the way OP layed it out with all the 100s of names including multiple kobe mentions made duncan look bad to the average consumer.

Its kind of like printing XXXXXL!!!! on the front of a magazine.
its a big sales tactic making kobe look amazing and duncan looking like crap (OPs objective complete.)

[dr.hee]

Its common knowledge that kobe is the better scorer but the way OP layed it out with all the 100s of names including multiple kobe mentions made duncan look bad to the average consumer.

Its kind of like printing XXXXXL!!!! on the front of a magazine.
its a big sales tactic making kobe look amazing and duncan looking like crap (OPs objective complete.)

And that's the most ridiculous thing about it. It's a funny coincidence that no matter which superstars' d!ck these stans are sucking, they're somehow always trying to make players look bad that are considered a threat to the perceived status of their heroes.

Why would a real basketball fan try to make Tim Duncan look like crap? Or Kobe? Or Lebron? Shaq? It's just utter nonsense. Look at the ridiculous Joe Johnson contract. That's something to laugh about. Or Josh Smith's shot selection. James Harden proclaiming he's the best all around player on the planet. Dwight Howard's lack of a post game. Melo not giving a f*ck about winning. That's something to make a player look like crap. Why Duncan of all players?

But somehow...it's always players that threaten their heroes. What a coincidence. Maybe I'm the only guy on this forum who just thinks, well...Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Lebron...all these players are awesome to watch.
Don't have to root for them, but I'd rather bash players who deserve it more.

Bunch of clueless stan fakkits :oldlol:

[NZStreetBaller]

And that's the most ridiculous thing about it. It's a funny coincidence that no matter which superstars' d!ck these stans are sucking, they're somehow always trying to make players look bad that are considered a threat to the perceived status of their heroes.

Why would a real basketball fan try to make Tim Duncan look like crap? Or Kobe? Or Lebron? Shaq? It's just utter nonsense. Look at the ridiculous Joe Johnson contract. That's something to laugh about. Or Josh Smith's shot selection. James Harden proclaiming he's the best all around player on the planet. Dwight Howard's lack of a post game. Melo not giving a f*ck about winning. That's something to make a player look like crap. Why Duncan of all players?

But somehow...it's always players that threaten their heroes. What a coincidence. Maybe I'm the only guy on this forum who just thinks, well...Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Lebron...all these players are awesome to watch.
Don't have to root for them, but I'd rather bash players who deserve it more.

Bunch of clueless stan fakkits :oldlol:

Oh shoosh everybody has their preferences and their favourites. and its almost nature to down talk competition in order to make your product look better. Females do it with other females all the time.

90% of ISH is people trying to prove that their favourite player is the best. and only way to do that is to take out the competition by using any statistic or performance neccesary.

The trick is to draw everybody's attention to areas in which favours your players strength and exploits the others weakness

Like right here Scoring kobe demolishes duncan in this area:applause:

All hail kobe!!:bowdown:

[dr.hee]

Oh shoosh everybody has their preferences and their favourites. and its almost nature to down talk competition in order to make your product look better. Females do it with other females all the time.

90% of ISH is people trying to prove that their favourite player is the best. and only way to do that is to take out the competition by using any statistic or performance neccesary.

The trick is to draw everybody's attention to areas in which favours your players strength and exploits the others weakness

Like right here Scoring kobe demolishes duncan in this area:applause:

All hail kobe!!:bowdown:

Nothing wrong with it. Some people just enjoy the simpler aspects of basketball. Like a real life 2k14 game. Totally get it, let's compare overall ratings. I mean that's what it's all about, right?
:cheers:

[BoutPractice]

The trick is to draw everybody's attention to areas in which favours your players strength and exploits the others weakness

No, it's actually the opposite.

Everyone here has already heard those arguments. If they think their player is better than Kobe, they'll just say that their player's strengths are more important, and weaknesses less important.

If you want to make a convincing point in a Kobe VS Duncan argument, you should talk about things like the defensive first teams, the equal number of championships, and so on. Beat the opponent at their own game...

Of course, this is all silly, but if you find this sort of thing fun, this is the way to do it.

[dr.hee]

No, it's actually the opposite.

Everyone here has already heard those arguments. If they think their player is better than Kobe, they'll just say that their player's strengths are more important, and weaknesses less important.

If you want to make a convincing point in a Kobe VS Duncan argument, you should talk about things like the defensive first teams, the equal number of championships, and so on. Beat the opponent at their own game...

Of course, this is all silly, but if you find this sort of thing fun, this is the way to do it.

Yup. It's still comparing a SG to a PF/C, but whatever...

[NZStreetBaller]

No, it's actually the opposite.

Everyone here has already heard those arguments. If they think their player is better than Kobe, they'll just say that their player's strengths are more important, and weaknesses less important.

If you want to make a convincing point in a Kobe VS Duncan argument, you should talk about things like the defensive first teams, the equal number of championships, and so on. Beat the opponent at their own game...

Of course, this is all silly, but if you find this sort of thing fun, this is the way to do it.

thats why i dont go into depth with statistics and records and all that crap. I basically leave that to my kobe peeps like kenneth. and then drop in some smart remark for entertainment purposes:rockon: .

I feel like their is no point in putting so much effort into trying to change somebody elses perspective on their own player. its like trying to tell a mother to hate their child. by utilizing stats like your child throws up more then my child. its just never going to happen

But i do find SOME of the stats and facts interesting.

I learn quite a bit about basketball from this site

for example: I now know who D rob is :lol

[dr.hee]

thats why i dont go into depth with statistics and records and all that crap. I basically leave that to my kobe peeps like kenneth. and then drop in some smart remark for entertainment purposes:rockon: .

I feel like their is no point in putting so much effort into trying to change somebody elses perspective on their own player. its like trying to tell a mother to hate their child. by utilizing stats like your child throws up more then my child. its just never going to happen

But i do find SOME of the stats and facts interesting.

I learn quite a bit about basketball from this site

for example: I now know who D rob is :lol

You really picked the worst analogy you could possibly find, huh?

[ralph_i_el]

Oh so ppg is how good you are?

Nick Young>>>>Steve Nash

So how ****ing stupid you sound?

[NZStreetBaller]

You really picked the worst analogy you could possibly find, huh?

lol hey some people can be that bloody defensive. its not even an over exaggeration :roll:

[NZStreetBaller]

Oh so ppg is how good you are?

Nick Young>>>>Steve Nash



absolutely my friend. you are now above average on an intellectual scale :applause:

[dr.hee]

lol hey some people can be that bloody defensive. its not even an over exaggeration :roll:

Yeah, it's not an exaggeration. Just a f*cking stupid analogy. If you think it makes any sense, you're f*cking stupid, too.

:cheers:

[NZStreetBaller]

Yeah, it's not an exaggeration. Just a f*cking stupid analogy. If you think it makes any sense, you're f*cking stupid, too.

:cheers:

:eek: wow haha

[ArbitraryWater]

and duncans coach said kobe was better than duncan at defense during his prime too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liIYL7YcePI

Nope, can't find in there..

[KG215]

sorry i dont buy it. advanced stats saying "catching a ball bouncing off the rim a few feet by standing under it 5 more times a game because you're 7 inches taller and play 3 positions closer to the rim is more difficult than scoring 15,000 more points and 2000 more assists while being 5 years young"...

take your advanced efficiency sh*t somewhere else LOL

and LOL @ you listing "more defensive teams"

kobe has more "BEST defense at your position awards ( i.e. 1st teams )

duncan has a few more SECOND best defense at your position awards...LOL ( i.e. 2nd teams )

which is funny cause duncan could make F/F/C and kobe could only make G/G

:lol


btw... LOL@

2001 4-0 sweet vs spurs

kobe = 33/7/7 on 51% fg's

2002 4-1 vs spurs

kobe = 26/5/5 on 45% fg's

2003 2-4 vs spurs

kobe = 32/5/4 on 43% fg's

2004 4-2 backdoor sweep vs spurs

kobe = 26/6/6 on 46% fg's

2008 4-1 vs spurs

kobe = 29/5/4 on 53% fg's


combined thats

18 wins - 8 losses

4 series wins - 1 series loss

29.2ppg, 5.6rpg, 5.2apg




So let me get this straight. Duncan getting more rebounds doesn't count because he's taller, but Kobe having more assists than Duncan is because Kobe is more skilled than Duncan? It has absolutely nothing to do with Kobe being a ball dominant guard and Duncan being a back to the basket player?

Sorry, I've seen the rest of the tired, stupid bullshit you've already posted in this thread since you make essentially this exact same thread about once a month. But the assists vs. rebounds argument is a new one.

[sportjames23]

kenneth has truly lost his shit. This is some really desperate shit, mang. :facepalm

[sportjames23]

This ngga melting down so hard he switching languages and shit

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[wakencdukest]

Why even compare a power forward to a guard? Duncan was the best ever at his position, that's all that matters.

[DatAsh]

Can you do this for Bill Russell as well?

[Frozen1]

Duncan os fkn overrated.

Product of a system.

Embarrassed usa in olympics. Was exposed by manu there.

Kobe had to redeem His shortcomings 4 years later.

Constantly raped by Kobe in playoffs.

[jlip]

dat brad daugherty esq 19ppg career average doesnt matter. with all those dpoty award n all... wait he doesnt have any to make up for it.. nevermind

but he does have that 20ppg on 40% finals mvp in 2005 ( even though manu averaged 20 on 60% :confusedshrug: ) but he was a better defender!

and who cares if a midget frenchy top 70 all time player won finals mvp over duncan... or that a top 4-500 player all time 2nd year role player won finals mvp over duncan... that isnt nearly as shameful as averaging 25/5/5 and losing mvps to prime shaq

While I don't particularly agree with the OP's trolling, premise, or purpose I have definitely heard these same types of foolish arguments used ad nauseum to denigrate other players, but when it comes to Duncan they seem not to matter.

Again I don't agree with them, but Duncan does seem to get a pass when it comes to what could be construed (or misconstrued) as career blemishes (i.e. team losing to an 8 seed as a 1 seed, missing an easily clutch layup in game 7 of the Finals.) These are things that Wilt, MJ, Kobe, or Lebron would get flamed for on these boards. Maybe it's because he just doesn't have many stans therefore fewer haters. There is just very little pro or anti Duncan agenda.

[Optimus Prime]

Kobe's name being bolded in that list of 250 made me chuckle.

Kobe Bryant is one of the all-time greatest players ever, and so is Tim Duncan. They are both great, but in different ways and for different reasons.

:kobe:

[SteveNashMVPcro]

kenneth has truly lost his shit. This is some really desperate shit, mang. :facepalm
He obviously doesn't understand the difference between pure numbers and a players real impact on the game

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Scoring is the only facet of basketball that counts. Playing defense, rebounding and passing is ALL really a facade. A myth perpetuated by Kobe haters. :mad:

[K Xerxes]

Scoring is the only facet of basketball that counts. Playing defense, rebounding and passing is ALL really a facade. A myth perpetuated by Kobe haters. :mad:

Efficiency doesn't matter either. Also the only ppg that count are that as a starter. MUST be that. I wonder why :confusedshrug:

[Y2ktors]

While I don't particularly agree with the OP's trolling, premise, or purpose I have definitely heard these same types of foolish arguments used ad nauseum to denigrate other players, but when it comes to Duncan they seem not to matter.

Again I don't agree with them, but Duncan does seem to get a pass when it comes to what could be construed (or misconstrued) as career blemishes (i.e. team losing to an 8 seed as a 1 seed, missing an easily clutch layup in game 7 of the Finals.) These are things that Wilt, MJ, Kobe, or Lebron would get flamed for on these boards. Maybe it's because he just doesn't have many stans therefore fewer haters. There is just very little pro or anti Duncan agenda.

There are plenty of Duncan stans. They're just not obnoxious. I also agree that he gets a pass. He's the only superstar that I know who seems to always get a pass for the shortcomings but practically all of the glory for the good occurrences.

But besides that, old Griff money has finally lost the rest of his mind. :lol

[DonDadda59]

What exactly caused this epic meltdown? :confusedshrug:

[dr.hee]

What exactly caused this epic meltdown? :confusedshrug:

Insecurity and a lack of real life achievements. The closer Kobe gets to retiring while Duncan keeps going, the more Kenny realizes how empty his existence is without fantasizing about Bean.

:oldlol:

[SamuraiSWISH]

kenneth over here

http://media1.giphy.com/media/IvcwXzJ1HiTTi/200.gif

[kennethgriffin]

What exactly caused this epic meltdown? :confusedshrug:

how is me copy and pasting a list that takes 2 seconds a meltdown?


ISH thinks any attack from a kobe fan is a meltdown

all this tells me is that i'm on the right track

[DatAsh]

Maybe it's because he just doesn't have many stans therefore fewer haters. There is just very little pro or anti Duncan agenda.

This

[kennethgriffin]

This

duncan has no haters because he barely has any fans.

the public tracks like 2 guys at a time.

back in the early 2000's it was


2000
- kobe
- vince


2001
-kobe
-iverson

2002
-kobe
-iverson

2003
-kobe
-tmac

2004
-kobe
-tmac

2005
-kobe
-tmac

2006
-kobe
-lebron

2007
-kobe
-lebron

2008
-kobe
-lebron

2009
-kobe
-lebron

2009
-kobe
-lebron

2010
-kobe
-lebron

2011
-kobe
-lebron

2012
-kobe
-lebron

2013
-lebron
-durant

2014
-lebron
-durant



for the last 15 years. these were the 2 favorite players each and every year


just going by overall allstar votes/jersey sales/ message boards.


duncans never even been one of the 5 most popular. let alone part of the top 2 that polarizes the basketball community


i might rip on duncan once a month to remind you guys of how overrated he is. but i mainly post about kobe or lebron 90% of the time for a reason. because its all anyone cares to talk about

when i talk about duncan. all anyone on ISH can say ( other than tlp ) is "meltdown... " nobody cares to argue anything i say cause nobody cares about duncan


TLP is the only guy defending his man... cause hes the only fan :roll:

[J Shuttlesworth]

Guess what Kenneth?

Duncan has averaged more rebounds in his career than Kobe has in a single season... Nearly twice as much as Kobe's best rebounding season

He also has more than 2x as many blocks on average than Kobe's best season

He also averaged less turnovers than Kobe's best season in his prime

Also shot 5% higher FG%

Also was an overall bigger impact on defense

[Ball So Harden]

Well, good thing there is more to basketball than scoring.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Kobe's best Defensive rating season is still 3 more than Duncan's career average :roll:

[ShackEelOKneel]

This

This again.

[kennethgriffin]

Guess what Kenneth?

Duncan has averaged more rebounds in his career than Kobe has in a single season... Nearly twice as much as Kobe's best rebounding season

He also has more than 2x as many blocks on average than Kobe's best season

He also averaged less turnovers than Kobe's best season in his prime

Also shot 5% higher FG%

Also was an overall bigger impact on defense

difference in position and height explain duncans lead in rebounds/blocks


but what can't be explained is why kobe will end up with 15,000 more points.



small guys, medium sized guys and big men all have equal opportunity to score.

both kobe and duncan were 1st team all defense for a decade. neither guy won DPOTY.


now. you can argue all day and night that duncan was more valued on defense. but out of the 100 great scorers we've seen the last 15 years. 90 of them were guys kobe was guarding.

[SexSymbol]

Ban Kenneth, he's a disrespectful idiot

[kennethgriffin]

Ban Kenneth, he's a disrespectful idiot


wait... you can get banned for being disrespectful

:roll:

ban 99% of the people on ISH then

and who says i have to respect duncan? is this a new forum rule

[TheMarkMadsen]

Griff in here murdering folks


Y'all gotta admire the hypocrisy of Kobe haters.

There's a post in here from a Kobe hater that says

"Lets see Kobe win a ring at 38 years old like Duncan. If Kobe does he'll prolly be a sidekick :roll: :roll: "

So... What exactly was Duncan this year then?

[SexSymbol]

wait... you can get banned for being disrespectful

:roll:

ban 99% of the people on ISH then

and who says i have to respect duncan? is this a new forum rule

You're disrespectful to the forum with your continuous lack of any intellectual post with a clear intention to make fans of certain players mad.
You're the definition of a weak troll.
And yes, you should respect a 5 time champion, who's one of the best players to ever play the game you're discussing about in your free time

[TheMarkMadsen]

You're disrespectful to the forum with your continuous lack of any intellectual post with a clear intention to make fans of certain players mad.
You're the definition of a weak troll.
And yes, you should respect a 5 time champion, who's one of the best players to ever play the game you're discussing about in your free time

OP isn't trolling :facepalm

I've seen nobody address his points, Duncan isn't anywhere close to Kobe when it comes to scoring, which is half the game, and as defenders the awards are equal..

The only counter point to this is "Duncan rebounds more"

:roll:

Good for him.. He plays in the paint and is taller than everybody on the court 99% of the time.

Of course y'all think he's trolling, anybody making a case for Kobe > anybody is considered trolling on ISH.

[kennethgriffin]

You're disrespectful to the forum with your continuous lack of any intellectual post with a clear intention to make fans of certain players mad.
You're the definition of a weak troll.
And yes, you should respect a 5 time champion, who's one of the best players to ever play the game you're discussing about in your free time


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxXJbjHttMc

0:01 - 0:05

[Inferno]

Duncan > Bean
Bran > Bean

[kennethgriffin]

Duncan > Bean
Bran > Bean
oh well this settles it

[KG215]

both kobe and duncan were 1st team all defense for a decade. neither guy won DPOTY.

Every time you try to boil down Duncan's and Kobe's defensive impact to this stupid, simplistic statement, you make yourself look even worse...which is saying a lot. Duncan's defensive impact is considerably larger than Kobe's. It's not as simple as "All-Defense 1st teams" and "DPOTY" awards. And when I say considerable, Kobe was never in the same stratosphere in terms of defensive impact as Duncan.

[KG215]

Griff in here murdering folks
How, exactly? He's posting the same tired, subjective, goalpoast moving bullshit arguments he always posts in his Kobe vs. Duncan threads.



"Lets see Kobe win a ring at 38 years old like Duncan. If Kobe does he'll prolly be a sidekick :roll: :roll: "

So... What exactly was Duncan this year then?
If you take the playoffs in their totality, Duncan was the Spurs best player. He obviously wasn't playing at some all-time great number one option level, but he was still his team's best player throughout the playoffs.

[K Xerxes]

difference in position and height explain duncans lead in rebounds/blocks


but what can't be explained is why kobe will end up with 15,000 more points.

Kobe is 6800 points ahead of Duncan meaning you pulled 8000 points from your ass. You wonder why people laugh at you?


both kobe and duncan were 1st team all defense for a decade. neither guy won DPOTY.


now. you can argue all day and night that duncan was more valued on defense. but out of the 100 great scorers we've seen the last 15 years. 90 of them were guys kobe was guarding.

Do you understand basketball? Big men guard the paint, dealing with both big men and driving guards/forwards. They protect the high percentage shots area, while guards protect the perimeter. They are inherently more important defensively than guards, and a few undeserved Kobe all defense awards does not mean he is in the same ballpark as Duncan defensively.

You still wonder why people laugh at you?

[La Frescobaldi]

Every time you try to boil down Duncan's and Kobe's defensive impact to this stupid, simplistic statement, you make yourself look even worse...which is saying a lot. Duncan's defensive impact is considerably larger than Kobe's. It's not as simple as "All-Defense 1st teams" and "DPOTY" awards. And when I say considerable, Kobe was never in the same stratosphere in terms of defensive impact as Duncan.

didn't even think that was possible, but... griffin never does cease to amaze

[KG215]

OP isn't trolling :facepalm

I've seen nobody address his points, Duncan isn't anywhere close to Kobe when it comes to scoring, which is half the game, and as defenders the awards are equal..

The only counter point to this is "Duncan rebounds more"

:roll:

Good for him.. He plays in the paint and is taller than everybody on the court 99% of the time.

Of course y'all think he's trolling, anybody making a case for Kobe > anybody is considered trolling on ISH.
:facepalm

So apparently you're as simple minded as Griff. Jesus, please don't tell me you actually buy into this bullshit logic? Again, anyone that has watched the NBA at last the last 15-20 years and knows anything about basketball knows that Duncan's defensive impact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe's defensive impact.

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe is 6800 points ahead of Duncan meaning you pulled 8000 points from your ass. You wonder why people laugh at you?



Do you understand basketball? Big men guard the paint, dealing with both big men and driving guards/forwards. They protect the high percentage shots area, while guards protect the perimeter. They are inherently more important defensively than guards, and a few undeserved Kobe all defense awards does not mean he is in the same ballpark as Duncan defensively.

You still wonder why people laugh at you?


i didnt say kobe had 15000 more points

i said kobe will end up with 15000 more points


duncans finished after this season. he'l be 40. he might get up to 25,000

kobes 35 years old. kobe will play 4 more years and go from 32000 up to around 38-39K


thats damn near 15000+

it is if you consider playoff points

[kennethgriffin]

:facepalm

So apparently you're as simple minded as Griff. Jesus, please don't tell me you actually buy into this bullshit logic? Again, anyone that has watched the NBA at last the last 15-20 years and knows anything about basketball knows that Duncan's defensive impact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe's defensive impact.

bigs get more credit than they deserve for defense

considering only about 5% of top scorers over the past 15 years are big men

[KG215]

bigs get more credit than they deserve for defense

considering only about 5% of top scorers over the past 15 years are big men


Guards get more credit than they deserve for scoring.

Considering less than 5% of the top defensive players ever are guards.

[GrapeApe]

Prime Duncan makes any team a championship contender. That can't be said for Kobe. Don't give me the Pop nonsense either. Duncan was a star the minute he set foot on an NBA court. He made Pop, not the other way around. Duncan turned a largely irrelevant franchise into one of the greatest in all of sports. If he had the exact same career on a big market team he'd be a concensus top 5 all time player.

[K Xerxes]

i didnt say kobe had 15000 more points

i said kobe will end up with 15000 more points

duncans finished after this season. he'l be 40. he might get up to 25,000

kobes 35 years old. kobe will play 4 more years and go from 32000 up to around 38-39K

thats damn near 15000+

it is if you consider playoff points

There is no way of knowing how Kobe is going to return from injury, whether he will get injured again or when he will retire. Until then, keep your speculation to yourself and avoid misrepresenting the scoring gap by 8000 points, which is four seasons of 25ppg playing 80 games. Your wet dreams don't fly in the real world where some people actually use things called logic and reason.

[KG215]

If he had the exact same career on a big market team he'd be a concensus top 5 all time player.
I really do think there is some truth to this. Griff likes to post all these fan-vote polls and rankings and mostly meaningless media based lists. He never stops to consider the fact that Duncan played his entire career tucked away in one of the smallest markets in the NBA for a mostly irrelevant franchise (before Duncan arrived), while Kobe had the luxury of playing his career in f***ing Los Angeles for one of the NBA's two most storied franchises.

And yes, I know Kobe is more polarizing and charismatic than Duncan, but if you don't think one player spending their entire career in LA playing for the Lakers and the other in San Antonio has any effect on things like that, then you're blind.

[kennethgriffin]

Guards get more credit than they deserve for scoring.

Considering less than 5% of the top defensive players ever are guards.

:biggums:

i disagree... DPOTY is just biased towards blocks and rebounding because voters dont wanna sit down and actually watch every game. and there isnt much statistical evidence for defense

i mean... a guy blocking 1-2 shots over 48 minutes is not an indicator or defense or stopping ability

nore is a guy getting 1-2 steals

thats like 1-2 plays out of like 100 possessions a team has during a game



DPOTY is a big mans award.

most people will tell you the best defensive player during the 90's was michael jordan. but he didnt win any defensive player of the year awards during that decade because guys like alonzo had 1-2 more blocks

but who blocks outside shots? thats not good defense anyway to bite on a shot. you're told to just put a hand up and not jump




if however you look at defensive teams. how many of these guys are not big men

1 Tim Duncan 14 8 6 14 0 0 0
2 Kobe Bryant 12 9 3 12 0 0 0
3 Kevin Garnett 12 9 3 12 0 0 0
4 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 11 5 6 11 0 0 0
5 Bobby Jones 11 8 1 9 2 0 2
6 Scottie Pippen 10 8 2 10 0 0 0
7 Dennis Johnson 9 6 3 9 0 0 0
8 Michael Jordan 9 9 0 9 0 0 0
9 Jason Kidd 9 4 5 9 0 0 0
10 Hakeem Olajuwon 9 5 4 9 0 0 0
11 Gary Payton 9 9 0 9 0 0 0
12 Bruce Bowen 8 5 3 8 0 0 0
13 Michael Cooper 8 5 3 8 0 0 0
14 John Havlicek 8 5 3 8 0 0 0
15 David Robinson 8 4 4 8 0 0 0
16 Dennis Rodman 8 7 1 8 0 0 0
17 Norm Van Lier 8 3 5 8 0 0 0
18 Walt Frazier 7 7 0 7 0 0 0
19 Mookie Blaylock 6 2 4 6 0 0 0
20 Don Buse 6 4 0 4 2 0 2
21 Dave DeBusschere 6 6 0 6 0 0 0
22 LeBron James 6 5 1 6 0 0 0
23 Kevin McHale 6 3 3 6 0 0 0
24 Dikembe Mutombo 6 3 3 6 0 0 0
25 Chris Paul 6 4 2 6 0 0 0
26 Alvin Robertson 6 2 4 6 0 0 0
27 Jerry Sloan 6 4 2 6 0 0 0
28 Ben Wallace 6 5 1 6 0 0 0
29 Don Chaney 5 0 5 5 0 0 0
30 Maurice Cheeks 5 4 1 5 0 0 0
31 Joe Dumars 5 4 1 5 0 0 0
32 Mark Eaton 5 3 2 5 0 0 0
33 Artis Gilmore 5 0 1 1 4 0 4
34 Dwight Howard 5 4 1 5 0 0 0
35 Sidney Moncrief 5 4 1 5 0 0 0
36 Dan Roundfield 5 3 2 5 0 0 0
37 Paul Silas 5 2 3 5 0 0 0
38 John Stockton 5 0 5 5 0 0 0
39 Nate Thurmond 5 2 3 5 0 0 0
40 Jerry West 5 4 1 5 0 0 0
41 Quinn Buckner 4 0 4 4 0 0 0
42 Marcus Camby 4 2 2 4 0 0 0
43 Doug Christie 4 1 3 4 0 0 0
44 Horace Grant 4 0 4 4 0 0 0
45 Karl Malone 4 3 1 4 0 0 0
46 Tayshaun Prince 4 0 4 4 0 0 0
47 Rajon Rondo 4 2 2 4 0 0 0
48 Buck Williams 4 2 2 4 0 0 0
49 Metta World Peace 4 2 2 4 0 0 0
50 Tony Allen 3 2 1 3 0 0 0



i dunno man. looks to me like non bigs are more consistantly great defenders

[kennethgriffin]

i love that every time i'm taking on ISH's collection of kobe haters 1 on 10... every thread i come out lookin like the predator. except instead of collectint skulls. i have a belt of prolapsed anus's tied to it from b*ttf*cking the sh*t out of all you


:roll:

[KG215]

:biggums:

i disagree... DPOTY is just biased towards blocks and rebounding because voters dont wanna sit down and actually watch every game. and there isnt much statistical evidence for defense

i mean... a guy blocking 1-2 shots over 48 minutes is not an indicator or defense or stopping ability

nore is a guy getting 1-2 steals

thats like 1-2 plays out of like 100 possessions a team has during a game

DPOTY is a big mans award.
DPOTY is a big man's award because bigs inherently have a much larger defensive impact than guards. How have you watched basketball this long and not figured this out, yet?



most people will tell you the best defensive player during the 90's was michael jordan. but he didnt win any defensive player of the year awards during that decade because guys like alonzo had 1-2 more blocks

but who blocks outside shots? thats not good defense anyway to bite on a shot. you're told to just put a hand up and not jump
No, they wouldn't. Anyone that actually watched the NBA and had even a basic understanding of how basketball works would tell you Hakeem, Robinson, Mutombo, Mourning, and Ewing were all better defenders than Jordan. Their defensive impact was greater/better than Jordan's.





if however you look at defensive teams. how many of these guys are not big men

1 Tim Duncan 14 8 6 14 0 0 0
2 Kobe Bryant 12 9 3 12 0 0 0
3 Kevin Garnett 12 9 3 12 0 0 0
4 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 11 5 6 11 0 0 0
5 Bobby Jones 11 8 1 9 2 0 2
6 Scottie Pippen 10 8 2 10 0 0 0
7 Dennis Johnson 9 6 3 9 0 0 0
8 Michael Jordan 9 9 0 9 0 0 0
9 Jason Kidd 9 4 5 9 0 0 0
10 Hakeem Olajuwon 9 5 4 9 0 0 0
11 Gary Payton 9 9 0 9 0 0 0
12 Bruce Bowen 8 5 3 8 0 0 0
13 Michael Cooper 8 5 3 8 0 0 0
14 John Havlicek 8 5 3 8 0 0 0
15 David Robinson 8 4 4 8 0 0 0
16 Dennis Rodman 8 7 1 8 0 0 0
17 Norm Van Lier 8 3 5 8 0 0 0
18 Walt Frazier 7 7 0 7 0 0 0
19 Mookie Blaylock 6 2 4 6 0 0 0
20 Don Buse 6 4 0 4 2 0 2
21 Dave DeBusschere 6 6 0 6 0 0 0
22 LeBron James 6 5 1 6 0 0 0
23 Kevin McHale 6 3 3 6 0 0 0
24 Dikembe Mutombo 6 3 3 6 0 0 0
25 Chris Paul 6 4 2 6 0 0 0
26 Alvin Robertson 6 2 4 6 0 0 0
27 Jerry Sloan 6 4 2 6 0 0 0
28 Ben Wallace 6 5 1 6 0 0 0
29 Don Chaney 5 0 5 5 0 0 0
30 Maurice Cheeks 5 4 1 5 0 0 0
31 Joe Dumars 5 4 1 5 0 0 0
32 Mark Eaton 5 3 2 5 0 0 0
33 Artis Gilmore 5 0 1 1 4 0 4
34 Dwight Howard 5 4 1 5 0 0 0
35 Sidney Moncrief 5 4 1 5 0 0 0
36 Dan Roundfield 5 3 2 5 0 0 0
37 Paul Silas 5 2 3 5 0 0 0
38 John Stockton 5 0 5 5 0 0 0
39 Nate Thurmond 5 2 3 5 0 0 0
40 Jerry West 5 4 1 5 0 0 0
41 Quinn Buckner 4 0 4 4 0 0 0
42 Marcus Camby 4 2 2 4 0 0 0
43 Doug Christie 4 1 3 4 0 0 0
44 Horace Grant 4 0 4 4 0 0 0
45 Karl Malone 4 3 1 4 0 0 0
46 Tayshaun Prince 4 0 4 4 0 0 0
47 Rajon Rondo 4 2 2 4 0 0 0
48 Buck Williams 4 2 2 4 0 0 0
49 Metta World Peace 4 2 2 4 0 0 0
50 Tony Allen 3 2 1 3 0 0 0



i dunno man. looks to me like non bigs are more consistantly great defenders
:facepalm

Based on f***ing All-Defense teams. Congratulations, you might be the only basketball fan too stupid and/or too stubborn to decide guards are consistently greater defensively than big men. Of course by admitting that you're admitting you have almost no f***ing clue how basketball actually works and how big men are inherently better defenders than guards.

Gotta give you credit, though. You chose this asinine, elementary, no-logic argument a long time ago and have ridden it through to the end. Takes a lot of balls to stick to such a stupid argument for this long.

[NZStreetBaller]

Are people who are trying to fight the fact that kobe is greater then duncan doing so because...

They are Duncan fans?? or...

They are Kobe haters??

Either way its irrelevant....

a system product vs a career alpha ??

[KG215]

i love that every time i'm taking on ISH's collection of kobe haters 1 on 10... every thread i come out lookin like the predator. except instead of collectint skulls. i have a belt of prolapsed anus's tied to it from b*ttf*cking the sh*t out of all you


:roll:
:oldlol:

You really are a special kind of delusional. You're absurd arguments have been shredded apart by plenty of posters over the years. And the ones in this thread are no different because they're all the same tired arguments you've used in the past. Just because you completely throw all logic and context out the window and are too delusional to see how stupid 99.9% of your arguments are, and instead choose to look at it as you "buttf*cking the shit out of all of us" doesn't mean it's true.

It just means you're a very delusional, borderline crazy person.

[Kblaze8855]

You often seen to have a fundamental lack of understanding on how some of these things work....

All d teams especially.

And when certain things happened.....always an issue with you.


And you repeat things with such confidence as if you know you are right....while being verifiability false in several aspects.

You aren't on a per post basis the wrongest poster......but off sheer volume of points made.....that include twisted or totally incorrect claims?

Youre at least as high on the all time list as Kobe in his sport.

[NZStreetBaller]

OOOHHH K Blaze vs Kenneth!!! two alpha posters this gonna be good !!!

GOOO TEAM KOBE !!!

[kennethgriffin]

You often seen to have a fundamental lack of understanding on how some of these things work....

All d teams especially.

And when certain things happened.....always an issue with you.


And you repeat things with such confidence as if you know you are right....while being verifiability false in several aspects.

You aren't on a per post basis the wrongest poster......but off sheer volume of points made.....that include twisted or totally incorrect claims?

Youre at least as high on the all time list as Kobe in his sport.


i know the routine

any facts or evidence that favors my point are irrelevant

yea yeah i get it



if 90% of the most accomplished defenders are wing players. lets throw out accomplishments

but keep mvps as a measuring tool cause it favors a kobe haters agenda

yall f*cked in the b*tt cause i stuck it repeatedly.

:roll:


ya know that bigs can make 3 spots on all defensive teams right? it could be G/G/PF/PF/C


its not the systems fault

[Inferno]

i know the routine

any facts or evidence that favors my point are irrelevant

yea yeah i get it



if 90% of the most accomplished defenders are wing players. lets throw out accomplishments

but keep mvps as a measuring tool cause it favors a kobe haters agenda

yall f*cked in the b*tt cause i stuck it repeatedly.

:roll:


Half of your facts are media polls asking who the best player of the era is :biggums: Then you go on to discredit MVP's and other awards when someone has more than Kobe :biggums:

[kennethgriffin]

Half of your facts are media polls asking who the best player of the era is :biggums: Then you go on to discredit MVP's and other awards when someone has more than Kobe :biggums:

i have more faith in all nba teams because the criteria doesnt change every year like MVP voting

and theres far less chance for error since you pick 5 guys instead of 1

there's been close mvp races and sometimes they picked the wrong guy. but rarely if ever does a guy miss out on first team all nba if he deserves it

sometimes they even make exceptions and put a forward in one of the guard spots just to make the right guy fit. also happens with PF's being listed at center sometimes

and theres so many all nba team possibilities. that if a guy has like 15 of them. its hard to argue they were flukes like the one time a guy might win mvp

[GrapeApe]

i love that every time i'm taking on ISH's collection of kobe haters 1 on 10... every thread i come out lookin like the predator. except instead of collectint skulls. i have a belt of prolapsed anus's tied to it from b*ttf*cking the sh*t out of all you


:roll:

But the thing is, you invite Kobe hatred. That's what I don't get about stans. It's fine to have an agenda, but you (and most stans) go about it in a completely transparent and often combative manner. There's much better ways to get your point accross, ways that may actually illicit agreeance among objective posters. When you pass off opinions as fact, even objective posters will turn on you (and Kobe in the process).

[K Xerxes]

DPOTY is a big mans award.

most people will tell you the best defensive player during the 90's was michael jordan. but he didnt win any defensive player of the year awards during that decade because guys like alonzo had 1-2 more blocks


As a HUGE Jordan fan, I will tell you the best defensive player of the 90s was Hakeem. Maybe Robinson. Jordan was arguably the best perimeter defender of the 90s, but his defensive impact wasn't on the level of the great all time defensive bigs. Neither was Pippens or Moncrief or any other all time great perimeter defenders. I think most Jordan fans that understand basketball would agree with that sentiment. Key words here being 'fans that understand basketball' which you are clearly not.


i love that every time i'm taking on ISH's collection of kobe haters 1 on 10... every thread i come out lookin like the predator. except instead of collectint skulls. i have a belt of prolapsed anus's tied to it from b*ttf*cking the sh*t out of all you


:roll:

No offence, but please see a psychiatrist. While it would be wrong of me to diagnose someone online, I think it's fairly likely that you suffer from a mental illness.

[kennethgriffin]

But the thing is, you invite Kobe hatred. That's what I don't get about stans. It's fine to have an agenda, but you (and most stans) go about it in a completely transparent and often combative manner. There's much better ways to get your point accross, ways that may actually illicit agreeance among objective posters. When you pass off opinions as fact, even objective posters will turn on you (and Kobe in the process).


i don't envite any hatred

if i was on lebron or jordans side. would you have a problem with any of my posts? if i used my talents against kobe. i'd probably have 20 green bars and be the most celebrated poster on iSH and be made a forum moderator

:roll:

people dont have a problem with me. they have a problem with kobe

[Inferno]

i don't envite any hatred

if i was on lebron or jordans side. would you have a problem with any of my posts? if i used my talents against kobe. i'd probably have 20 green bars and be the most celebrated poster on iSH and be made a forum moderator

:roll:

people dont have a problem with me. they have a problem with kobe

There's a reason Bron stans like Dragic and Silkk are in red too bud

[DatAsh]

most people will tell you the best defensive player during the 90's was michael jordan. but he didnt win any defensive player of the year awards during that decade because guys like alonzo had 1-2 more blocks


I honestly don't know anyone who would say that. Jordan was one of the best perimeter defenders ever, but he still wasn't close to guys like Hakeem, Robinson, Mutombo, or Ewing as a defender.

[KG215]

i don't envite any hatred

if i was on lebron or jordans side. would you have a problem with any of my posts? if i used my talents against kobe. i'd probably have 20 green bars and be the most celebrated poster on iSH and be made a forum moderator

:roll:

people dont have a problem with me. they have a problem with kobe
:oldlol:

No, most of us have a problem with you. If you presented your arguments in the same manner for LeBron or Jordan as you do for Kobe, just as many people would think you're a dumbass and you'd still be comfortably in the red. It has nothing to do with Kobe and has everything to do with how you present your arguments. Logic and context are two key concepts when it comes to making sound arguments, and both of those concepts are completely lost on you.

[ArbitraryWater]

i love that every time i'm taking on ISH's collection of kobe haters 1 on 10... every thread i come out lookin like the predator. except instead of collectint skulls. i have a belt of prolapsed anus's tied to it from b*ttf*cking the sh*t out of all you


:roll:

:roll:

[red1]

i don't envite any hatred

if i was on lebron or jordans side. would you have a problem with any of my posts? if i used my talents against kobe. i'd probably have 20 green bars and be the most celebrated poster on iSH and be made a forum moderator

:roll:

people dont have a problem with me. they have a problem with kobe
http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/kobe-bryant-frustrated-after-loss-to-cavaliers.jpg

[ArbitraryWater]

i don't envite any hatred

if i was on lebron or jordans side. would you have a problem with any of my posts? if i used my talents against kobe. i'd probably have 20 green bars and be the most celebrated poster on iSH and be made a forum moderator

:roll:

people dont have a problem with me. they have a problem with kobe

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/sb3hn4.gif

[Asukal]

Another meltdown thread. :oldlol:

Somebody compile it quick. :oldlol:

[KG215]

I honestly don't know anyone who would say that. Jordan was one of the best perimeter defenders ever, but he still wasn't close to guys like Hakeem, Robinson, Mutombo, or Ewing as a defender.
Or Mourning. That's at least five bigs who played in the 90s I think most rational NBA fans would say had a bigger impact defensively than Jordan.

[Kblaze8855]

i know the routine

any facts or evidence that favors my point are irrelevant

yea yeah i get it



if 90% of the most accomplished defenders are wing players. lets throw out accomplishments

but keep mvps as a measuring tool cause it favors a kobe haters agenda

yall f*cked in the b*tt cause i stuck it repeatedly.

:roll:


ya know that bigs can make 3 spots on all defensive teams right? it could be G/G/PF/PF/C


its not the systems fault


So Hakeem puts up 3 blocks and 3 steals a game in 89...leads the nba in defensive rating...anchors the team with the #4 defensive rating that is far from loaded with good defenders.

Hes not all D first...or second team.

And why might that be?

Centers....10 of the players you listed in the comparison...get one spot on each team.

Kobe against the likes of Hakeem, Drob, Ewing, Mutombo, Zo, and so on with only 2 spots wouldnt have made so much as an all D second team in his career. While given 2 first team spots...Kareem is all D first team 11 times.

And perhaps worse....you are listing people who dont seem to know shit about. Paul Silas is a non big?

Even if you never saw a clip of him in action....do you watch the NBA?

Have you seen that man?

Paul Silas was the very definition of a power forward. Dave D was a tweener early in his career....but he like Rodman was a 4 when he was the player being discussed. You list Rodman as a non big....do you know who Sean Elliot, Scottie Pippen, and Mark Aguirre were? They were the ones at the 3...while Rodman was at the 4 in his prime.

Hes a small like Melo and Lebron are bigs. hell...Melo played the 4 an entire season of his peak and Lebron won a ring starting at the 4 the entire playoffs. Doesnt mean Lebrons all D teams count for bigmen. The Rodman being discussed was guarding the likes of Shaq, Barkley, and Malone. He was a tweener at times....but to list him as a non big is dishonest.

But Silas? Thats just ignorance or trolling.

As ive explained I generally look the other way on you because...you do try. But sometimes you are just packed full of shit and making arguments nobody who knows about the people in question ever would. And its painful to read.

You are bad at this.

And its made worse because you think you are great at it.

You might seem to make points to people who cant give your posts half a glance and know you are factually incorrect in 4-5 ways at a time.....but to me...you are just writing nonsense.

[kennethgriffin]

So Hakeem puts up 3 blocks and 3 steals a game in 89...leads the nba in defensive rating...anchors the team with the #4 defensive rating that is far from loaded with good defenders.

Hes not all D first...or second team.

And why might that be?

Centers....10 of the players you listed in the comparison...get one spot on each team.

Kobe against the likes of Hakeem, Drob, Ewing, Mutombo, Zo, and so on with only 2 spots wouldnt have made so much as an all D second team in his career. While given 2 first team spots...Kareem is all D first team 11 times.

And perhaps worse....you are listing people who dont seem to know shit about. Paul Silas is a non big?

Even if you never saw a clip of him in action....do you watch the NBA?

Have you seen that man?

Paul Silas was the very definition of a power forward. Dave D was a tweener early in his career....but he like Rodman was a 4 when he was the player being discussed. You list Rodman as a non big....do you know who Sean Elliot, Scottie Pippen, and Mark Aguirre were? They were the ones at the 3...while Rodman was at the 4 in his prime.

Hes a small like Melo and Lebron are bigs. hell...Melo played the 4 an entire season of his peak and Lebron won a ring starting at the 4 the entire playoffs. Doesnt mean Lebrons all D teams count for bigmen. The Rodman being discussed was guarding the likes of Shaq, Barkley, and Malone. He was a tweener at times....but to list him as a non big is dishonest.

But Silas? Thats just ignorance or trolling.

As ive explained I generally look the other way on you because...you do try. But sometimes you are just packed full of shit and making arguments nobody who knows about the people in question ever would. And its painful to read.

You are bad at this.

And its made worse because you think you are great at it.

You might seem to make points to people who cant give your posts half a glance and know you are factually incorrect in 4-5 ways at a time.....but to me...you are just writing nonsense.


http://i57.tinypic.com/bja73l.png

[mehyaM24]

truthfully, kobe just doesnt have the efficiency or defense to be compared to duncan, who unlike kobe, won all his fmvps while leading his teams in PER and winshares.

kobe STILL got a finals mvp even though gasol outplayed him in 2010.

i think another factor nobody has mentioned yet, is that kobe was sidekick to shaq for 3 title runs. except for this last championship, duncan was always on the forefront.

[kennethgriffin]

truthfully, kobe just doesnt have the efficiency or defense to be compared to duncan, who unlike kobe, won all his fmvps while leading his teams in PER and winshares.

kobe STILL got a finals mvp even though gasol outplayed him in 2010.

i think another factor nobody has mentioned yet, is that kobe was sidekick to shaq for 3 title runs. except for this last championship, duncan was always on the forefront.


kobe has more 1st team all defensive awards than duncan

like 5% of the of the leagues top scorers over the last 15 years were big men

kobe has to guard a big scorer way way waaaaaaay more often than duncan does.


so while i will admit. duncan has allot going for him too on that end.... lets not say kobe cant compare defensively

ISH's big man love fest's are ruining this place TBH


and kobes true shooting percentage for his career is 55.5%.. duncans is 55.1%


when factoring in free throws and three pointers.. KOBE IS MORE EFFICIENT/PRODUCTIVE per possession


seriously. i'm collecting so many pink socks in this thread.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[SpecialQue]

Duncan - #1 all time tied with Shaq and Moses Malone for most seasons 17/10

Why 17? Seems like an arbitrary number just to put someone in elite company. People were doing shit like this with Lebron for the past few seasons. "Most 22/7/10 games in December at home against conference rivals."

[SpecialQue]

i love that every time i'm taking on ISH's collection of kobe haters 1 on 10... every thread i come out lookin like the predator. except instead of collectint skulls. i have a belt of prolapsed anus's tied to it from b*ttf*cking the sh*t out of all you


:roll:

This is probably the only funny post I've seen from you.

[qrich]

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/11090247/all-nba-players



SportsNation Rankings

1.Michael Jordan

2.Magic Johnson

3.Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

4.Larry Bird

5.Wilt Chamberlain

6.Bill Russell

7.Kobe Bryant

8.LeBron James

9.Tim Duncan

10.Shaquille O'Neal



:roll:

So you agree that LeBron is all but guaranteed to surpass Kobe?

[mehyaM24]

kobe has more 1st team all defensive awards than duncan

duncan has more defensive win shares and a better defensive rating.

results > popularity contests


like 5% of the of the leagues top scorers over the last 15 years were big men

kobe has to guard a big scorer way way waaaaaaay more often than duncan does.

who has kobe had to guard, for an extended amount of time including the playoffs, that was on par with shaq/yao/gasol/amare/garnett/sheed/webber, and in their primes?

hint: you wont be able to top that list.


and kobes true shooting percentage for his career is 55.5%.. duncans is 55.1%

what about the large gaps in field goal % and effective field goal percentage? forget shooting percentages, about player efficiency ratings?

anyway you look at it, duncan is a FAR more efficient player. :confusedshrug:


when factoring in free throws and three pointers.. KOBE IS MORE EFFICIENT/PRODUCTIVE per possession

when factoring all that in, duncan is still more efficient. that says it all.


seriously. i'm collecting so many pink socks in this thread.

you're a fan of my posts (you copy and pasta my jordan/pippen debates), so you know i am not a duncan fan. in fact, i think he's more overrated than kobe.

fact is , you need a better argument. anybody that has watched a semblence of basketball via 2003, would throw your posts into a paper shredder.

[kennethgriffin]

duncan has more defensive win shares and a better defensive rating.

results > popularity contests



who has kobe had to guard, for an extended amount of time including the playoffs, that was on par with shaq/yao/gasol/amare/garnett/sheed/webber, and in their primes?

hint: you wont be able to top that list.



what about the large gaps in field goal % and effective field goal percentage? forget shooting percentages, about player efficiency ratings?

anyway you look at it, duncan is a FAR more efficient player. :confusedshrug:



when factoring all that in, duncan is still more efficient. that says it all.



you're a fan of my posts (you copy and pasta my jordan/pippen debates), so you know i am not a duncan fan. in fact, i think he's more overrated than kobe.

fact is , you need a better argument. anybody that has watched a semblence of basketball via 2003, would throw your posts into a paper shredder.


if 90% of the time duncan is defending a guy who averages 8 or 9 points a game.

then obviously he's going to look better on some advanced defensive efficiency stat than a guy like kobe who 90% of the time has to defend a guy that averages 18-20ppg


context will always come out ontop

try again


and if all nba teams/defensive teams are popularity contests

why did michael jordan ( the most popular player ever ) miss out on the 1st,2nd and 3rd all nba teams in 2002 and 2003... and missed out on the 1st and 2nd all defensive teams aswell

[KG215]

if 90% of the time duncan is defending a guy who averages 8 or 9 points a game.

then obviously he's going to look better on some advanced defensive efficiency stat than a guy like kobe who 90% of the time has to defend a guy that averages 18-20ppg




try again


and if all nba teams/defensive teams are popularity contests

why did michael jordan ( the most popular player ever ) miss out on the 1st,2nd and 3rd all nba teams in 2002 and 2003... and missed out on the 1st and 2nd all defensive teams aswell
:oldlol:

It's amazing how you find new, inventive ways to "move the goalposts" so to speak. Somehow, you continue to ignore the OVERALL impact a great defensive big like Duncan has which includes not only defending their man but also covering up the mistakes made by guards and protecting the paint/rim.


context will always come out ontop
Says the poster who ignores context 99.9% of the time.

[Cali Syndicate]

:biggums:

i disagree... DPOTY is just biased towards blocks and rebounding because voters dont wanna sit down and actually watch every game. and there isnt much statistical evidence for defense

LOL



"DPOTY is biased voted by lazy voters who don't watch all the games"

yet in response to other arguments-
*posts a half dozen fan/popularity based polls for Kobe's greatness*
Because every one of those fans actually sat down and watched every game that season/decade as to see who was actually the BEST player.

"The MVP is a biased award given by the media"

Yet in response to other arguments-
*posts Kobe's all NBA first teams*
Because all NBA teams aren't voted by the media.....wait, yes they are.

[T_L_P]

'DPOY is all about rebounds and blocks'

-Marc Gasol wins it averaging 7.8 and 1.7

[kennethgriffin]

'girls dont like big thick fat veiny c*cks'

-some guy banged a 7.8 chick with a 1.7 incher







TLP droppin knowledge left and right

[KG215]

LOL



"DPOTY is biased voted by lazy voters who don't watch all the games"

yet in response to other arguments-
*posts a half dozen fan/popularity based polls for Kobe's greatness*
Because every one of those fans actually sat down and watched every game that season/decade as to see who was actually the BEST player.

"The MVP is a biased award given by the media"

Yet in response to other arguments-
*posts Kobe's all NBA first teams*
Because all NBA teams aren't voted by the media.....wait, yes they are.
Just wait. Griff will find some other stupid ass angle to use and come back with another embarrassingly stupid argument. Anytime you crush him like this he essentially ignores it for awhile and, maybe after spending some time trying to find other ways to unknowingly contradict himself, he MIGHT come back and just embarrass himself further. Of course Griff is so delusional he'll think he's "buttf*cking" you and think his argument is foolproof and brilliant.

[kennethgriffin]

Just wait. Griff will find some other smart angle to use and come back with another convincing argument. Anytime you crush him like this he essentially ignores it for awhile and, maybe after spending some time trying to find other ways to unknowingly contradict himself, he MIGHT come back and just embarrass himself further. Of course Griff is so delusional he'll think he's "buttf*cking" you and think his argument is foolproof and brilliant.

youre right

dpoty is voted by sports writers

all defensive teams are voted by coaches ( they know more about basketball )

[kennethgriffin]

Because all NBA teams aren't voted by the media.....wait, yes they are.


i dont know if they do now. they might have changed it. but atleast up until 2013 the coaches did

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1638277-lebron-james-chris-paul-headline-nba-all-defensive-1st-team



Here's a look at how the coaches voted, according to Royce Young of CBS Sports:

First Team

Player


First Team


Second Team


Total Points

LeBron James


25


3


52

Serge Ibaka


17


12


46

Tyson Chandler


9


6


24

Joakim Noah


8


8


24

Tony Allen


25


3


53

Chris Paul


15


7


37

Second Team

Player


First Team


Second Team


Total Points

Tim Duncan


3


14


20

Paul George


7


13


27

Marc Gasol


5


2


12

Avery Bradley


10


5


25

Mike Conley


4


11


19




more pink socks

prolapses everywhere

:lol

[Cali Syndicate]

Just wait. Griff will find some other stupid ass angle to use and come back with another embarrassingly stupid argument. Anytime you crush him like this he essentially ignores it for awhile and, maybe after spending some time trying to find other ways to unknowingly contradict himself, he MIGHT come back and just embarrass himself further. Of course Griff is so delusional he'll think he's "buttf*cking" you and think his argument is foolproof and brilliant.

I imagine him at work, eating, at the gym or whatever, and he'd think of something to post on ISH and would instantly get happy, instant highlight of his day. lol

[Cali Syndicate]

i dont know if they do now. they might have changed it. but atleast up until 2013 the coaches did
l

i was talking bout ALL NBA team selections, not all defensive team. And yes, they did change the all defensive team voting from coaches to media, well last year they did anyways.

[tpols]

Damn.. knew it'd be a lot but I didn't realize it'd be hundreds of guys. Crazy. Kobe's offense is just >>>.

[kennethgriffin]

Damn.. knew it'd be a lot but I didn't realize it'd be hundreds of guys. Crazy. Kobe's offense is just >>>.

its actually closer to 300 than 250. but basketball-reference can only post so many people that are more prolific scorers than duncan ever was without their servers crashing

[Kblaze8855]

http://i57.tinypic.com/bja73l.png

I didnt think you would have anything of substance to say. Just keep spouting verifiability false bullshit. I think im about done giving you the benefit of the doubt.

[dubeta]

Guys who averaged more career PPG than Kobe

1. Michael Jordan 30.12
2. Wilt Chamberlain 30.07
3. LeBron James 27.52
4. Kevin Durant 27.40
5. Elgin Baylor 27.36
6. Jerry West* 27.03
7. Allen Iverson 26.66
8. Bob Pettit 26.36
9. George Gervin 26.18
10. Oscar Robertson 25.68

Damn I guess Kobe isnt even a top 10 GOAT then

[mehyaM24]

Guys who averaged more career PPG than Kobe

1. Michael Jordan 30.12
2. Wilt Chamberlain 30.07
3. LeBron James 27.52
4. Kevin Durant 27.40
5. Elgin Baylor 27.36
6. Jerry West* 27.03
7. Allen Iverson 26.66
8. Bob Pettit 26.36
9. George Gervin 26.18
10. Oscar Robertson 25.68

Damn I guess Kobe isnt even a top 10 GOAT then

i told you kenneth. your argument is paper thin. :hammerhead:

[NZStreetBaller]

Guys who averaged more career PPG than Kobe

1. Michael Jordan 30.12
2. Wilt Chamberlain 30.07
3. LeBron James 27.52
4. Kevin Durant 27.40
5. Elgin Baylor 27.36
6. Jerry West* 27.03
7. Allen Iverson 26.66
8. Bob Pettit 26.36
9. George Gervin 26.18
10. Oscar Robertson 25.68

Damn I guess Kobe isnt even a top 10 GOAT then

Whats your favourite alt??? or main account bro??

I was thinking about starting another alt but i want your expert opinion first

[dubeta]

Whats your favourite alt??? or main account bro??

I was thinking about starting another alt but i want your expert opinion first

you have alts? :roll:

just lost all respect bro

[NZStreetBaller]

you have alts? :roll:

just lost all respect bro

lol it was meant to be another acc. just typed alt cause i was thinking alt.

But good job of avoiding the question:applause:

[kennethgriffin]

i told you kenneth. your argument is paper thin. :hammerhead:

career averages can be argued due to circumstances as an 18,19 year old skipping college

kobes career average as a starter from age 20 is 27.3ppg

which is right around where lebron/durant are in the top 5


what cant be argued is number of times during your career that you average over a certain number

for instance


kobe is tied with michael jordan for most seasons over 25ppg with 12

[dubeta]

When you only shoot 45% and under, all your scoring records should have an asterisk imo, applies to both Kobe and A.I

Scoring at a 45% clip means nothing


Shaq 58%

LeBron 57%

Prime MJ 53-54%


Durant 51%








Prime Kobe 45%

[kennethgriffin]

When you only shoot 45% and under, all your scoring records should have an asterisk imo, applies to both Kobe and A.I

Scoring at a 45% clip means nothing


Shaq 58%

LeBron 57%

Prime MJ 53-54%


Durant 51%








Prime Kobe 45%





i cant wait for kobe to break the tie with MJ this year on most 25+ppg seasons




:lol

[Dragic4Life]

kennethgriffin with dem deflections. Scared of facing up and replying to facts.:oldlol:

[dubeta]

i cant wait for kobe to break the tie with MJ this year on most 25+ppg seasons




:lol


Doesnt mean anything when Kobe's shooting 8-12% worse than all the other scorers

Thats a huge difference


Can you imagine if a player shooting 35-37% from the field was being argued a better scorer than kobe? Wouldnt you call him crazy? thats what you're doing now :oldlol:

45% scorers dont have much to argue for

[dubeta]

kennethgriffin with dem deflections. Scared of facing up and replying to facts.:oldlol:


DAMN


Me and Dragic back up in this bish

the tag team is back :cheers:



Now just waiting for the other noble members to serve their jail time and be freed :applause:

[kennethgriffin]

kennethgriffin with dem deflections. Scared of facing up and replying to facts.:oldlol:


only noobs compare field goal percentage of guys that are

7 feet

6-11

6-9

and a guy who had 1000 more dunks and 3000 less three point attempts

to a guy whos 6-5


its called TS%. this is the 21st century


the greatest shooters of all time at kobes size shot 45%

rick barry

reggie miller

ray allen

its nothing new

[kennethgriffin]

DAMN


Me and Dragic back up in this bish

the tag team is back :cheers:



Now just waiting for the other noble members to serve their jail time and be freed :applause:


every time you quote yourself from now on i'm blocking your alt

[Dragic4Life]

kenneth, you should be content that Kobe is at least in the top 20 all time and be done with it. Don't push it, you'll only get hurt.

[dubeta]

only noobs compare field goal percentage of guys that are

7 feet

6-11

6-9

and a guy who had 1000 more dunks and 3000 less three point attempts

to a guy whos 6-5


its called TS%. this is the 21st century


the greatest shooters of all time at kobes size shot 45%

rick barry

reggie miller

ray allen

its nothing new


This myth of Kobe being so inferior physically has to stop

Look here:

He is the EXACT same size as LeBron

http://str8hoops.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/2008-nba-mvp-canidates-lebron-and-kobe.jpg


Kobe is 6'7, LeBron was listed as 6'7.25 coming in the league. LeBron is a whopping .25 inches taller than Kobe

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/LeBron-James-2967/

Kobe generally plays at 230 pounds, LeBron is only 240 pounds look at the link

So Lebron is only .25 of a inch taller, and barely 10 pounds heavier, and shoots 12% better than Kobe, while grabbing 2 more rebounds?? Damn :oldlol:

[kennethgriffin]

http://i60.tinypic.com/2n7qs7b.png


think of it this way. atleast you can save time on signing in and out of your alt. stick to dubeta. and if you quote lebronxrings, encre, goran or any other obvious ones. they go on ignore too


:roll: :roll: :roll:

[dubeta]

kenneth, you should be content that Kobe is at least in the top 20 all time and be done with it. Don't push it, you'll only get hurt.

What about if Tony Parker wins another ring and FMVP??

[Dragic4Life]

What about if Tony Parker wins another ring and FMVP??
Parker would have 5 rings and 2 FMVP.:eek:

That makes him on par with Kobe at 15th and 16th.:bowdown:

[kennethgriffin]

What about if Tony Parker wins another ring and FMVP??


aw man. you just quoted yourself again.. that means i gotta put both of your curent ones on ignore :lol


come back with lebronxrings or encre i guess if you wanna chat

:cheers:

[dubeta]

I'm Not Dubeta! :facepalm



lol

[dubeta]

This myth of Kobe being so inferior physically has to stop

Look here:

He is the EXACT same size as LeBron

http://str8hoops.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/2008-nba-mvp-canidates-lebron-and-kobe.jpg


Kobe is 6'7, LeBron was listed as 6'7.25 coming in the league. LeBron is a whopping .25 inches taller than Kobe

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/LeBron-James-2967/

Kobe generally plays at 230 pounds, LeBron is only 240 pounds look at the link

So Lebron is only .25 of a inch taller, and barely 10 pounds heavier, and shoots 12% better than Kobe, while grabbing 2 more rebounds?? Damn :oldlol:

Yo answer this question lol

[kennethgriffin]

http://i60.tinypic.com/erbhnr.png


encre, lebronxrings

where you at?

:roll:

[kennethgriffin]

http://insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10562310



^^^^^^

http://i58.tinypic.com/20fvkoy.png


caught red handed!


:roll: :roll: :roll:




http://insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10562310


LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[dubeta]

http://insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10562310



^^^^^^

http://i58.tinypic.com/20fvkoy.png


caught red handed!


:roll: :roll: :roll:




http://insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10562310



LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


DAMN you got owned :oldlol:

Look at the white text bruh


Didnt know you were this easy to troll :roll:

[Dragic4Life]

kenneth falling into traps.:lol :roll:

[tpols]

When you only shoot 45% and under, all your scoring records should have an asterisk imo, applies to both Kobe and A.I

Scoring at a 45% clip means nothing


Shaq 58%

LeBron 57%

Prime MJ 53-54%


Durant 51%








Prime Kobe 45%




Lebron scored at 57% in the regular season..



down to 49% in the playoffs..



down to 44% in the Finals :lol


Cherrypickin. At its finest.

[sportjames23]

DAMN


Me and Dragic back up in this bish

the tag team is back :cheers:



Now just waiting for the other noble members to serve their jail time and be freed :applause:


You mean the alt team is back. :oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

Guys who averaged more career PPG than Kobe

1. Michael Jordan 30.12
2. Wilt Chamberlain 30.07
3. LeBron James 27.52
4. Kevin Durant 27.40
5. Elgin Baylor 27.36
6. Jerry West* 27.03
7. Allen Iverson 26.66
8. Bob Pettit 26.36
9. George Gervin 26.18
10. Oscar Robertson 25.68

Damn I guess Kobe isnt even a top 10 GOAT then

:roll:

Kenneth getting owned by LeBron fans :applause:

Dat paper thin argument..

[dubeta]

:roll:

Kenneth getting owned by LeBron fans :applause:

Dat paper thin argument..

:roll:

[NZStreetBaller]

:facepalm Im not Dubeta

or am I?? would make sense to To have another alt on the other side of the Kobe/Bron to help bring down kobe fans !!

http://wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/blogs/christianpiatt/files/2012/01/nerd-1.jpg

[Nowitness]

bigs get more credit than they deserve for defense

considering only about 5% of top scorers over the past 15 years are big men



Do you actually watch basketball? Duncan guards the paint, not just bigs.

Also, since Jordan won last lets see who the best player in the finals have been.

Duncan
Shaq
Shaq
Shaq
Wallace
Duncan
Wade
Duncan
Garnett
Bean
Pau
Dirk
LeBron
LeBron
Kawhi

How many of those would Kobe guard? Kawhi and Wade. Duncan would be guarding everyone else, there is a much greater defensive impact from Duncan not just because he is a big. Who cares if Kobe usually guards Danny Granger? At his peak he guarding a spot up shooter in Ray Allen and some dead beat playing for Orlando. You stay losing.