Pretty sure a rookie time traveled Wilt would still be the most physically dominant..

[CavaliersFTW]

..player in the league today.

*EDIT* more players plus 30+ year old Wilt pics (30+ Wilt pics are eyeball scaled based on his rookie pic, so take with grain of salt)
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-QzbplB9mDjo/VCJlvg6qYwI/AAAAAAAAFdE/vRWksoX1Xw4/s800/wiltmiscellaneouscenters.jpg (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-QzbplB9mDjo/VCJlvg6qYwI/AAAAAAAAFdE/vRWksoX1Xw4/s0/wiltmiscellaneouscenters.jpg)

(click image for larger size)
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-A_72oS2TCSE/VB9A-fZvDTI/AAAAAAAAFbw/RTCklR9GFT4/s800/Wiltrookiemediadayphoto.jpg (https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-A_72oS2TCSE/VB9A-fZvDTI/AAAAAAAAFbw/RTCklR9GFT4/s0/Wiltrookiemediadayphoto.jpg)

Found his NBA debut media day pic of him, out of curiosity sake used those red bars at the top to scale the image (diameter of the basketball) and compared it to Hibbert (biggest center in the league today) and Deandre and Dwight, two of the most physically athletic specimens at center position today. Wilt is ****ing huge, with ridiculously long looking arms and legs. Bigger in the upper body than Hibbert even as a 258lb rookie, and with that fresh off the Globetrotters/Track and Field speed and athleticism he'd easily be duplicating the agility of shorter athletic centers like Deandre and Dwight. He'd run be a runaway train in the league today. Can't believe he packed on another 50lbs by the time he played for the Lakers.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Dwight's shoulders are ridiculous. Always catches me off guard just how massive they are.

[dubeta]

Damn, so dwight stronger than wilt confirmed??

[kennethgriffin]

todays rules would hurt wilt. but he'd still average like 22/13 on 57%


bigs never really evolved much.

[Cocaine80s]

He looks like Javale McGee with like 5 extra pounds added. Cousins and Dwight would make him their bitch

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/1016/mag_nba_mcgee01jr_576.jpg

[navy]

Curious. How did you end up stanning Wilt?

[Psileas]

..player in the league today.

(click image for larger size)
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-A_72oS2TCSE/VB9A-fZvDTI/AAAAAAAAFbw/RTCklR9GFT4/s800/Wiltrookiemediadayphoto.jpg (https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-A_72oS2TCSE/VB9A-fZvDTI/AAAAAAAAFbw/RTCklR9GFT4/s0/Wiltrookiemediadayphoto.jpg)

Found his NBA debut media day pic of him, out of curiosity sake used those red bars at the top to scale the image (diameter of the basketball) and compared it to Hibbert (biggest center in the league today) and Deandre and Dwight, two of the most physically athletic specimens at center position today. Wilt is ****ing huge, with ridiculously long looking arms and legs. Bigger in the upper body than Hibbert even as a 258lb rookie, and with that fresh off the Globetrotters/Track and Field speed and athleticism he'd easily be duplicating the agility of shorter athletic centers like Deandre and Dwight. He'd run be a runaway train in the league today. Can't believe he packed on another 50lbs by the time he played for the Lakers.

So, this photo of Wilt was taken specifically in his pro debut day? I knew it was from his rookie season, but didn't know the specific day.
Would be interesting to impose a couple of later pics of him, too.
Interestingly as well, Hibbert looks marginally taller, but it may have to do with the shoes.

[CavaliersFTW]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qK71tzZfUUU/VCJdNmrqOTI/AAAAAAAAFcs/thGiZUJCPzc/s800/wiltjeffersonjordan.jpg (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qK71tzZfUUU/VCJdNmrqOTI/AAAAAAAAFcs/thGiZUJCPzc/s0/wiltjeffersonjordan.jpg)

30's Wilt makes pretty much anyone look like a child.

[Cocaine80s]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qK71tzZfUUU/VCJdNmrqOTI/AAAAAAAAFcs/thGiZUJCPzc/s800/wiltjeffersonjordan.jpg (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qK71tzZfUUU/VCJdNmrqOTI/AAAAAAAAFcs/thGiZUJCPzc/s0/wiltjeffersonjordan.jpg)

30's Wilt makes pretty much anyone look like a child.
Nah i bet Enes kanter could beat his ass

this is at 20 years old. 6'11

http://static.basket-infos.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/enes-kanter-2.jpg

[CavaliersFTW]

So, this photo of Wilt was taken specifically in his pro debut day? I knew it was from his rookie season, but didn't know the specific day.
Would be interesting to impose a couple of later pics of him, too.
Interestingly as well, Hibbert looks marginally taller, but it may have to do with the shoes.
Not his pro debut "day"... it's just one of his rookie season photoshoot photos. I presume they were all taken preseason, but I don't know the exact date. There's a variety of them out there, I imagine it was pretty much like modern media days, where one designated day Wilt took a bunch of shots with his warm ups and jersey in various poses. That shot just so happens to be comparable to modern shots, which made for a perfect comparison.

[NuggetsFan]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qK71tzZfUUU/VCJdNmrqOTI/AAAAAAAAFcs/thGiZUJCPzc/s800/wiltjeffersonjordan.jpg (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qK71tzZfUUU/VCJdNmrqOTI/AAAAAAAAFcs/thGiZUJCPzc/s0/wiltjeffersonjordan.jpg)

30's Wilt makes pretty much anyone look like a child.

http://www.brothersonsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/dwight1.jpg

Pictures are kinda worthless in this conversation. Even with your red bars you put up :lol

[Marchesk]

I would have love to seen 30s Wilt go against prime Shaq, and see Shaq try to muscle him.

[oarabbus]

Dwight's shoulders are ridiculous. Always catches me off guard just how massive they are.


Yeah his shoulders are ridiculous. Wilt has more of that "V" torso while Dwight has a "T" shaped one. Wider frame in the shoulders than DeAndre or Wilt, just about the same as Hibbert, who has ~5" on him. You can measure it in that pic, his shoulders are considerably bigger than Wilt/Jordan

[oarabbus]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qK71tzZfUUU/VCJdNmrqOTI/AAAAAAAAFcs/thGiZUJCPzc/s800/wiltjeffersonjordan.jpg (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qK71tzZfUUU/VCJdNmrqOTI/AAAAAAAAFcs/thGiZUJCPzc/s0/wiltjeffersonjordan.jpg)

30's Wilt makes pretty much anyone look like a child.

Hmm, 30's Wilt looks marginally taller than rookie wilt, while in sandals while Rookie wilt is in Chucks... and there's no bball in the 30s pic.

Wilt does make DeAndre look not that big, but I really, really doubt he would be tossing Marc Gasol and Howard around with ease.

[CavaliersFTW]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-QzbplB9mDjo/VCJlvg6qYwI/AAAAAAAAFdE/vRWksoX1Xw4/s800/wiltmiscellaneouscenters.jpg (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-QzbplB9mDjo/VCJlvg6qYwI/AAAAAAAAFdE/vRWksoX1Xw4/s0/wiltmiscellaneouscenters.jpg)

Pretty sure Kanter and Dwight would both be tossed around like rag dolls by any version of Wilt after the 1964 season (which he showed up to camp at 320, and played 290-310 from there on out for the rest of his career). They are not bigger than Bob Lanier. Lanier got moved like a 'coffee cup' by Wilt.

[CavaliersFTW]

Nah i bet Enes kanter could beat his ass

this is at 20 years old. 6'11

http://static.basket-infos.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/enes-kanter-2.jpg
Bill Russell's height. With short arms. (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Enes-Kanter-5168/) Dwarfed by Wilt.

[dubeta]

All Wilt would need is one beat down by the hands of Javale McGee and that would send him back to fighting mountain lions

[CavaliersFTW]

All Wilt would need is one beat down by the hands of Javale McGee and that would send him back to fighting mountain lions
:oldlol:

[KobesFinger]

You got one of rookie Shaq and D-Rob? Both legit 7 footers and athletic specimens. Does anyone know D-Rob's body fat %?

[Haymaker]

Pretty sure he would be the best C in the league, which isn't saying much given the piss poor crop of modern centers. He would've been one of the top C's in the 90's along Ewing, Olajuwon, Robinson, but he wouldn't be the best back then.

[SpanishACB]

Curious. How did you end up stanning Wilt?

he needed a goal in life

[swagga]

You got one of rookie Shaq and D-Rob? Both legit 7 footers and athletic specimens. Does anyone know D-Rob's body fat %?

shaq's not in line with the agenda :lol he'll put the skinny robinson tho, maybe a very young shaq in his college years.

Prime shaq would eat anybody alive, wilt included. Dude was a tank :lol Not even mentioning shaq offensive skills >>>> wilt's offensive skills.

Prime yao would give wilt a run for his money tbh.

[swagga]

btw, with wilt being such a dominant physical specimen how didn't he dominate that 6'11 midget russell?

Russel is the size of deandre jordan, op correctly observs that he looked like a small child near wilt. Chokers gonna choke tbh.

[swagga]

btw op how did wilt not push russell like a cup of coffee. Can you confirm that bill russell was stronger than peak shaq? :roll:

[oarabbus]

btw, with wilt being such a dominant physical specimen how didn't he dominate that 6'11 midget russell?

Russel is the size of deandre jordan, op correctly observs that he looked like a small child near wilt. Chokers gonna choke tbh.


btw op how did wilt not push russell like a cup of coffee. Can you confirm that bill russell was stronger than peak shaq? :roll:


Exactly, this is where the disconnect comes in that makes it difficult to accept the Wilt praise. He makes DJ and Dwight look "like children" yet Russell, the same size, took home 11 rings and beat him when it counted? Cavs, you are trying to make it sound like Wilt on Dwight would be like Dwight posting up Harden or Rondo. I just don't buy it.

[swagga]

Exactly, this is where the disconnect comes in that makes it difficult to accept the Wilt praise. He makes DJ and Dwight look "like children" yet Russell, the same size, took home 11 rings and beat him when it counted? Cavs, you are trying to make it sound like Wilt on Dwight would be like Dwight posting up Harden or Rondo. I just don't buy it.

this dude cavsftw cracks me up. He is like a literate version of dubeta/dragic/xrings/jt/etc. :roll:

[CavaliersFTW]

btw op how did wilt not push russell like a cup of coffee. Can you confirm that bill russell was stronger than peak shaq? :roll:
So you assume because I use an example of him moving 290lb Lanier around like a "coffee cup" you automatically assume since I provided no other examples, that he couldn't move say, a 230lb Russell around with ease? Is that what you call ISH logic?

http://youtu.be/pOBX9ikNzEk?t=1m24s

Rest assured he was definitely a lot stronger than Bill Russell.

[Psileas]

Hmm, 30's Wilt looks marginally taller than rookie wilt, while in sandals while Rookie wilt is in Chucks... and there's no bball in the 30s pic.

Wilt does make DeAndre look not that big, but I really, really doubt he would be tossing Marc Gasol and Howard around with ease.

I opened the pic, and 30's Wilt head's tip is exactly where rookie Wilt's is.


Exactly, this is where the disconnect comes in that makes it difficult to accept the Wilt praise. He makes DJ and Dwight look "like children" yet Russell, the same size, took home 11 rings and beat him when it counted? Cavs, you are trying to make it sound like Wilt on Dwight would be like Dwight posting up Harden or Rondo. I just don't buy it.

Because it's not 1-on-1. If Shaq made Hakeem and Rodman look like children, why didn't he do the same to them in '95 and '96? Why didn't he actually do this to everyone in the 13 different postseasons he failed to win a title?
At least Russell proved to be a winner, regardless of Wilt, and Wilt still won 2 rings and got to the Finals 6 times. What the heck have Dwight and DJ ever shown to be put in the same sentence with Russell and Wilt?

[CavaliersFTW]

Exactly, this is where the disconnect comes in that makes it difficult to accept the Wilt praise. He makes DJ and Dwight look "like children" yet Russell, the same size, took home 11 rings and beat him when it counted? Cavs, you are trying to make it sound like Wilt on Dwight would be like Dwight posting up Harden or Rondo. I just don't buy it.
Right, because individuals win championships not teams. Wilt grabbing 55 rebounds and scoring 60+ multiple times against him means nothing as far as his individual match up at center position was concerned.

[pudman13]

Lanier got moved like a 'coffee cup' by Wilt.

Speaking of Lanier, with all of his offensive skills, there's a guy who would be a star in today's NBA.

[dubeta]

2/6 is still 2/6

2/6 in a weak era isnt going to translate to success in todays nba

[CavaliersFTW]

Enes Kanter and any other short-limbed slow-footed player looks like he would get 100 dropped on him, the rest of the leagues more athletic bigs might hold prime Wilt to 60, 65? :lol

[swagga]

So you assume because I use an example of him moving 290lb Lanier around like a "coffee cup" you automatically assume since I provided no other examples, that he couldn't move say, a 230lb Russell around with ease? Is that what you call ISH logic?

http://youtu.be/pOBX9ikNzEk?t=1m24s

Rest assured he was definitely a lot stronger than Bill Russell.


that's why russell got more than 20 boards a game vs chamberlain. Because he was oh so much weaker ? :roll:

I've heard that russell blackmailed wilt with porn pics with the wives of robert shelton (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Shelton_%28Ku_Klux_Klan%29) and the other boss klansmen, so wilt always took it easy when he played the old man. The only logical explanation of why the smaller, weaker, older and less athletic russell could get more than 20 boards a game against wilt. :lol :oldlol: :roll: :applause:

For the rest of his life wilt would go on and live in fear of those pictures and the klan's revenge, otherwise he'd have thrown russell out of the game by his legs, like a poorly fed mountain lion being tossed around by her tail. :lol

[swagga]

Enes Kanter and any other short-limbed slow-footed player looks like he would get 100 dropped on him, the rest of the leagues more athletic bigs might hold prime Wilt to 60, 65? :lol

and then they would advance in the playoffs. Isn't that how the story goes?

[LAZERUSS]

shaq's not in line with the agenda :lol he'll put the skinny robinson tho, maybe a very young shaq in his college years.

Prime shaq would eat anybody alive, wilt included. Dude was a tank :lol Not even mentioning shaq offensive skills >>>> wilt's offensive skills.

Prime yao would give wilt a run for his money tbh.

You mean this Shaq against the "Shaq-Stopper" Eddy Curry?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=onealsh01&p2=curryed01


Or maybe Shaq vs the defensive beast Greg Ostertag?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1997_WCS.html#UTA-LAL


Or perhaps Shaq against this skinny 6-8 guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg3BiOw4TWo


Yep, what chance would Chamberlain have had against those guys?

[Marchesk]

2/6 is still 2/6

2/6 in a weak era isnt going to translate to success in todays nba

Would you also say that 2/5 in a weak East wouldn't translate to success in the 80s East?

[oarabbus]

You mean this Shaq against the "Shaq-Stopper" Eddy Curry?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=onealsh01&p2=curryed01


Or maybe Shaq vs the defensive beast Greg Ostertag?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1997_WCS.html#UTA-LAL


Or perhaps Shaq against this skinny 6-8 guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg3BiOw4TWo


Yep, what chance would Chamberlain have had against those guys?


Well, you kinda proved me and sweggeh's point with that. OP's intention is to make players look "like little children" compared to Wilt, that he can toss around like a coffee cup. Clearly, that isn't the case.

[CavaliersFTW]

Well, you kinda proved me and sweggeh's point with that. OP's intention is to make players look "like little children" compared to Wilt, that he can toss around like a coffee cup. Clearly, that isn't the case.
It is the case though. Wilt could physically overpower anyone today, just as he did then. And yes, he physically overpowered anyone he ever played against, there are zero exceptions. Team success or even examples of being outplayed in his later years are not one in the same as physically over powering someone so don't get them confused if that's what you are doing.

[oarabbus]

It is the case though. Wilt could physically overpower anyone today, just as he did then. And yes, he physically overpowered anyone he ever played against, there are zero exceptions. Team success or even examples of being outplayed in his later years are not one in the same as physically over powering someone so don't get them confused if that's what you are doing.


Hmm, alright. I'll agree that rookie Wilt is/appears to be stronger than anyone currently in the NBA.

Embiid doe? I don't mean a direct rookie comparison, just that he's a big dude with the frame to add weight.

[dubeta]

Would you also say that 2/5 in a weak East wouldn't translate to success in the 80s East?

you could win 30 games and make the playoffs in the 80's East :oldlol:

[CavaliersFTW]

Hmm, alright. I'll agree that rookie Wilt is/appears to be stronger than anyone currently in the NBA.

Embiid doe? I don't mean a direct rookie comparison, just that he's a big dude with the frame to add weight.
I was looking for Embiid and Noel photos, will update when I find some but on paper his measurements are not otherworldly so I don't think he will look any more imposing than any other big centers in the league right now. The only players that make wilt look normal height/size are like, Hibbert, Shaq, Yao ...I mean it's gotta be the clear cut "biggest" guys in the league at any given time. Embiid could be the next great center, but his size isn't freak status AFAIK. He's like Duncan/Ewing/Olajuwon size I thought, maybe a smidge taller but still not game-changingly huge.

[jongib369]

..player in the league today.

*EDIT* more players plus 30+ year old Wilt pics (30+ Wilt pics are eyeball scaled based on his rookie pic, so take with grain of salt)
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-QzbplB9mDjo/VCJlvg6qYwI/AAAAAAAAFdE/vRWksoX1Xw4/s800/wiltmiscellaneouscenters.jpg (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-QzbplB9mDjo/VCJlvg6qYwI/AAAAAAAAFdE/vRWksoX1Xw4/s0/wiltmiscellaneouscenters.jpg)

(click image for larger size)
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-A_72oS2TCSE/VB9A-fZvDTI/AAAAAAAAFbw/RTCklR9GFT4/s800/Wiltrookiemediadayphoto.jpg (https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-A_72oS2TCSE/VB9A-fZvDTI/AAAAAAAAFbw/RTCklR9GFT4/s0/Wiltrookiemediadayphoto.jpg)

Found his NBA debut media day pic of him, out of curiosity sake used those red bars at the top to scale the image (diameter of the basketball) and compared it to Hibbert (biggest center in the league today) and Deandre and Dwight, two of the most physically athletic specimens at center position today. Wilt is ****ing huge, with ridiculously long looking arms and legs. Bigger in the upper body than Hibbert even as a 258lb rookie, and with that fresh off the Globetrotters/Track and Field speed and athleticism he'd easily be duplicating the agility of shorter athletic centers like Deandre and Dwight. He'd run be a runaway train in the league today. Can't believe he packed on another 50lbs by the time he played for the Lakers.

Grain of salt taken, but still....Damn

[jongib369]

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-J6UDKSe1T_k/UQN1mHSuhHI/AAAAAAAAECc/8_Spjtm5BhQ/s800/NBA%2520Big%2520men%2520scaleWIP2.jpg

[iznogood]

It is the case though. Wilt could physically overpower anyone today, just as he did then. And yes, he physically overpowered anyone he ever played against, there are zero exceptions. Team success or even examples of being outplayed in his later years are not one in the same as physically over powering someone so don't get them confused if that's what you are doing.
I don't agree with you simply because size and weight alone don't always translate in physical domination. That's why today you often see guards like Westbrook and Chris Paul who are excellent at denying position against much taller players on the block, because the rules allow them to play very physical and the defenses move faster and offer more help. I believe the rules in the 60s were much softer when it comes to amount of body contact on both defense and offense, especially off ball. And once a good player get's a ball at his sweet spot on the block, he's going to be hard to stop. I'm not saying the basketball overall was softer, clearly there wasn't as many flagrant fouls as we see today and in this aspect the basketball we are watching today should be considered softer. But in my mind there's no way a rookie is going to have the strength of a grown and fully developed athlete. Wilt was a phenomenal athlete as a rookie, but I can not imagine him dominating guys in their physical primes when there's so much contact when they are battling for position.

[CavaliersFTW]

I don't agree with you simply because size and weight alone don't always translate in physical domination. That's why today you often see guards like Westbrook and Chris Paul who are excellent at denying position against much taller players on the block, because the rules allow them to play very physical and the defenses move faster and offer more help. I believe the rules in the 60s were much softer when it comes to amount of body contact on both defense and offense, especially off ball. And once a good player get's a ball at his sweet spot on the block, he's going to be hard to stop. I'm not saying the basketball overall was softer, clearly there wasn't as many flagrant fouls as we see today and in this aspect the basketball we are watching today should be considered softer. But in my mind there's no way a rookie is going to have the strength of a grown and fully developed athlete. Wilt was a phenomenal athlete as a rookie, but I can not imagine him dominating guys in their physical primes when there's so much contact when they are battling for position.
Lol, he's likely the strongest player that ever played. He was seen bench pressing 465lbs. Like, 1 or 2 guys in the league today are even in his class of height let alone body weight/stature/strength. And the only guys that are even remotely close to him athletically are all about 6 feet 9 inches tall tops, because most big guys just aren't athletic. He's physically so far superior it's not really discountable how much of an advantage he has. It's like a Shaq, or Lebron, his physical advantage is timeless, it isn't just going to go away with time he'd be manhandling any group of players from any time. Nobody today has the upper hand physically over Bob Lanier and Nate Thurmond, whom Wilt would bump out of his way like they were made of tissue paper, so why assume the guys today are going to fair any better? He dwarfs them all, and is every bit as athletic as today's MOST athletic players in the size range of 6 feet 9 inches. Just doesn't make sense to discount Wilt's overwhelming physical superiority.

The one thing above all one can objectively take away from this thread is how silly it is to ignore his physical advantages, and to reiterate that they still exist, despite it being 2015. If you are ignoring his physical advantages, or not 'buying' them or w/e, you are being silly. Look at him, he makes today's most imposing centers look like children.

[iznogood]

Lol, he's likely the strongest player that ever played. He was seen bench pressing 465lbs. Like, 1 or 2 guys in the league today are even in his class of height let alone body weight/stature/strength. And the only guys that are even remotely close to him athletically are all about 6 feet 9 inches tall tops, because most big guys just aren't athletic. He's physically so far superior it's not really discountable how much of an advantage he has. It's like a Shaq, or Lebron, his physical advantage is timeless, it isn't just going to go away with time he'd be manhandling any group of players from any time. Nobody today has the upper hand physically over Bob Lanier and Nate Thurmond, whom Wilt would bump out of his way like they were made of tissue paper, so why assume the guys today are going to fair any better? He dwarfs them all, and is every bit as athletic as today's MOST athletic players in the size range of 6 feet 9 inches. Just doesn't make sense to discount Wilt's overwhelming physical superiority. One big thing to take away from this thread is how silly it is to ignore his physical advantages, and to reiterate that they still exist, despite it being 2015. If you are ignoring his physical advantages, or not 'buying' them or w/e, you are being silly. Look at him, he makes today's most imposing centers look like children.
Wilt was not nearly as strong and physically developed as a rookie, isn't this what the thread is about? I don't think rookie Wilt would be physically and athletically dominant. His body mass, power and strength are simply not there yet. Also what is your opinion on my argument about the allowed amount of body contact today that in my opinion favours smaller players who have strength and athleticism to deny position on the low block or the fact that the rules today allow smaller players to front the post while the weak side defender roams around the paint and protects the lob passes. I don't think pure physical domination alone really translates to the game the way it did in the 60s.

[jongib369]

Wilt was not nearly as strong and physically developed as a rookie, isn't this what the thread is about? I don't think rookie Wilt would be physically and athletically dominant. His body mass, power and strength are simply not there yet. Also what is your opinion on my argument about the allowed amount of body contact today that in my opinion favours smaller players who have strength and athleticism to deny position on the low block or the fact that the rules today allow smaller players to front the post while the weak side defender roams around the paint and protects the lob passes. I don't think pure physical domination alone really translates to the game the way it did in the 60s.
Wilt came into the league able to bench 365 if I remember correctly.(Not sure if it was his max of if he repped it) Read it in an old newspaper article, Red Auerbach was the one who saw him do it. Don't care to go into it like Cavs or J...Lazeruss are probably going to, but I think he was a tad stronger as a rookie than people expect.

[iznogood]

I don't believe he was able to bench 365 as a rookie. People say Boris Diaw could jump as high as Amare Stoudmire barefooted eating a bagel and I don't believe this to be true as well.
http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2014/6/15/5812532/presenting-the-most-boris-diaw-anecdote-imaginable

[fpliii]

How much did Wilt weigh his first four seasons? Was he at his rookie playing weight the entire time, or did he gradually increase it until 63-64 (from which point on he was at the same weight for the rest of his career)?

[CavaliersFTW]

Wilt came into the league able to bench 365 if I remember correctly.(Not sure if it was his max of if he repped it) Read it in an old newspaper article, Red Auerbach was the one who saw him do it. Don't care to go into it like Cavs or J...Lazeruss are probably going to, but I think he was a tad stronger as a rookie than people expect.
This ^

Wilt was strong as a bull from day 1, with jaw dropping speed and athleticism.

Multiple plays of his would be in every highlight of the night while people became accustomed to his reach and athleticism if he entered the league today. Just watching him sprint, knowing how big and long he is, looks impressive on film in and of itself. His size and athleticism even as a rookie outclasses anyone in the league today.

[jongib369]

I don't believe he was able to bench 365 as a rookie. People say Boris Diaw could jump as high as Amare Stoudmire barefooted eating a bagel and I don't believe this to be true as well.
http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2014/6/15/5812532/presenting-the-most-boris-diaw-anecdote-imaginable
I think Red Auerbach who was probably scouting Wilt is more credible than Marc Stein, an ESPN writer

[CavaliersFTW]

How much did Wilt weigh his first four seasons? Was he at his rookie playing weight the entire time, or did he gradually increase it until 63-64 (from which point on he was at the same weight for the rest of his career)?
He was reportedly 258lbs at the Kutchers game prior to his NBA debut, the Warriors rounded down and listed him at 250 which is what he weighed about a year prior with the Globetrotters (they reported him at 249lbs in an article). During the 1962 season (3 years later) there are some articles stating he weighed 265lbs. 275lbs is his list weight as of his 4th season, so I'd imagine he weighed that much starting at that season. The 5th season is when he shows up at 320, but he quickly slims down to about 290, and stays about 290 from that point until what seems to be about 1969 which is when the first "300lb" article shows up. And years later, by self confession Wilt claims he was playing at 300-310lbs as a Laker. So rookie Wilt was 258, prime scoring Wilt (50ppg and 45ppg Wilt) was 265-275, late Warriers and 76er Wilt was about 290, 30's+ Wilt was 300-310.

[fpliii]

He was reportedly 258lbs at the Kutchers game prior to his NBA debut, the Warriors rounded down and listed him at 250 which is what he weighed about a year prior with the Globetrotters (they reported him at 249lbs in an article). During the 1962 season (3 years later) there are some articles stating he weighed 265lbs. 275lbs is his list weight as of his 4th season, so I'd imagine he weighed that much starting at that season. The 5th season is when he shows up at 320, but he quickly slims down to about 290, and stays about 290 from that point until what seems to be about 1969 which is when the first "300lb" article shows up. And years later, by self confession Wilt claims he was playing at 300-310lbs as a Laker. So rookie Wilt was 258, prime scoring Wilt (50ppg and 45ppg Wilt) was 265-275, late Warriers and 76er Wilt was about 290, 30's+ Wilt was 300-310.
Interesting, thanks.

For comparison to young Wilt, do you have any numbers on UCLA and Bucks Kareem?

[jongib369]

This ^

Wilt was strong as a bull from day 1, with jaw dropping speed and athleticism.

Multiple plays of his would be in every highlight of the night while people became accustomed to his reach and athleticism if he entered the league today. Just watching him sprint, knowing how big and long he is, looks impressive on film in and of itself. His size and athleticism even as a rookie outclasses anyone in the league today.
I'm not sure which would cause more problems for todays centers...Older, stronger Wilt who is still faster than everybody...Or younger, faster Wilt who is still stronger than everybody...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B22U73v7kAA

[iznogood]

Red Auerbach probably forgot about more players than we've heard about. I'm not saying he made that story up, but I've worked with many powerlifters, bodybuilders and crossfit athletes and I don't believe Wilt could press 365 in his rookie year.
Rich Froning is a multiple times crossfit games winner, much more muscular with more appropriate body type for bench pressing (shorter arms) and his 1RM on the bench press is 335. Do you really believe a rookie Wilt could bench press more than somebody who makes his money lifting weights? Let's not forget Froning most likely uses PEDs like all the other top athletes today. It's just not possible.

This is very much like Lance Armstrong's case. It's just not possible the he could outperform his competitors without the use of PEDs while everybody else took them. When you come to the highest level of competition, the level of talent is very similar. There is no action heroes, it just doesn't work that way.

[CavaliersFTW]

Red Auerbach probably forgot about more players than we've heard about. I'm not saying he made that story up, but I've worked with many powerlifters, bodybuilders and crossfit athletes and I don't believe Wilt could press 365 in his rookie year.
Rich Froning is a multiple times crossfit games winner, much more muscular with more appropriate body type for bench pressing (shorter arms) and his 1RM on the bench press is 335. Do you really believe a rookie Wilt could bench press more than somebody who makes his money lifting weights? Let's not forget Froning most likely uses PEDs like all the other top athletes today. It's just not possible.

This is very much like Lance Armstrong's case. It's just not possible the he could outperform his competitors without the use of PEDs while everybody else took them. When you come to the highest level of competition, the level of talent is very similar. There is no action heroes, it just doesn't work that way.
Wilt has actual startlingly easy to spot physical advantages over other athletes. This isn't a case of Lance armstrong (just another skinny 5-10 white guy) being better than a bunch of other skinny 5-10 white guys at a very specialized endurance sport. Wilt looks quite visibly superior to everyone physically. Huge long arms, extremely long legs, etc etc. Freak genetic lottery winners do exist, Wilt is a Man of War or Secretariat among other human athletes. He makes even the greatest of the other thoroughbreds of his time and any other time appear to be physically inferior. Lance Armstrong does not appear physically superior to his competition, nothing stood out about him until he was on his bike for a couple of hours and wasn't showing the same signs of fatigue as his competition.

[iznogood]

Long limbs are a great disadvantage when it comes to lifting weights, especially bench pressing. Also Wilt has no visible physical advantages when it comes to weightlifting. As I stated before - if it is anything it's a disadvantage. I don't think you know anything about weight training because you're talking nonsense. Visual aspect is completely subjective and in that case it actually supports my claim rather than yours.

Also, I'm not sure if you've ever done any sport on a high level because I'm sure you'd have experienced what I'm saying. Young adults can't compare in strength to fully developed grown men. They might be quicker, faster or more explosive, but surely not stronger. That is when you compare athletes with similar level of potential. And as I said before, there is no evidence Wilt's potential was that much higher. His body type is not a body type of a strongman. He might be and probably was stronger then an average big, since bigs are usually ectomorph (Wilt was as well, this is why I do believe he was a steroid user), but there is no evidence that would suggest that his potential in achieving maximum strength would be greater than people who are born with better predispositions and train at that sport exclusively.

And take away Wilt's height and his physique is not even impressive by today's standards. He only managed to build more muscle when he also gained much more body fat, compared to somebody like Thurmond, who was jacked while keeping low body fat percentage.

[inclinerator]

we get it wilt is the closest human to god

[GimmeThat]

it's really just a matter of whether or not a time traveled Wilt could beat David Robinson.

because if you say yes.



that's that.

[Marchesk]

we get it wilt is the closest human to god

Nah,

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/053/9/3/Godbe_Bryant_by_hfs991hfs.png

[swagga]

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-J6UDKSe1T_k/UQN1mHSuhHI/AAAAAAAAECc/8_Spjtm5BhQ/s800/NBA%2520Big%2520men%2520scaleWIP2.jpg

so in reality wilt had at least 10 inches over russell and had an enormous strength advantage. And still russell was neck and neck with him on the boards ...

and lmao at this thread having a point. My god these dudes need that celebrity hacker to leak a pic of wilt's dick so we can amiably end such threads with a single post.

[sundizz]

Why did you cherry pick these players to put next to Wilt? Could of at least put hibbert right next to wilt.

If you are going to do this itd make more sense to do Wilt, Shaq, Kareem, Drob, Yao, and Rik Smits

[oarabbus]

Why did you cherry pick these players to put next to Wilt? Could of at least put hibbert right next to wilt.

If you are going to do this itd make more sense to do Wilt, Shaq, Kareem, Drob, Yao, and Rik Smits


Well Yao would make Wilt look small.

[KobesFinger]

Remember the thread where Cavs put Wilt next to a pick of Melo, Amar'e and Chandler? In that one, Wilt was about 3 inches taller than Chandler who is listed at 7'2

[CavaliersFTW]

Remember the thread where Cavs put Wilt next to a pick of Melo, Amar'e and Chandler? In that one, Wilt was about 3 inches taller than Chandler who is listed at 7'2
I scale the images with the basketball as the control, maybe Wilt always held smaller basketballs? Yeah that must be it, well, thanks, good job exposing the truth, def no way Wilt was so big, and def no way modern players can get exposed with exaggerated list info :applause:

Not like real life images of Wilt standing next to Shaq, or Bill Russell standing next to Ben Wallace, Tim Duncan, or whomever else confirms this. After all Wilt was only "7-1" and Bill Russell was only "6-9", they def must not be any taller than other "7-1" and "6-9" players..

[Marchesk]

Not like real life images of Wilt standing next to Shaq, or Bill Russell standing next to Ben Wallace, Tim Duncan, or whomever else confirms this. After all Wilt was only "7-1" and Bill Russell was only "6-9", they def must not be any taller than other "7-1" and "6-9" players..

Do you have Sabonis's measurements? BR has him at 7'3 for height. Are there any photos of him and Wilt together?

[sundizz]

Yep. Typical...once he gets called out he bounces (and probably trolls page 1 with another Wilt tall tales thread).

Sabonis would dominate Wilt btw..

http://nimg.sulekha.com/sports/original700/arvydas-sabonis-bill-walton-2011-8-12-23-40-22.jpg

[sundizz]

Bump.

[LAZERUSS]

Bump.

What's your point?

The CURRENT has offensively inept centers like Jordan, Drummond, as among the best centers in the league. Both are smaller, weaker, much less athletic, and much less skilled than a rookie Wilt was.

[abuC]

I was looking for Embiid and Noel photos, will update when I find some but on paper his measurements are not otherworldly so I don't think he will look any more imposing than any other big centers in the league right now. The only players that make wilt look normal height/size are like, Hibbert, Shaq, Yao ...I mean it's gotta be the clear cut "biggest" guys in the league at any given time. Embiid could be the next great center, but his size isn't freak status AFAIK. He's like Duncan/Ewing/Olajuwon size I thought, maybe a smidge taller but still not game-changingly huge.

http://nk_wp_media.s3.amazonaws.com/files/2014/08/nerlens-noel-shaq-camron.png
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bwt4FCvCMAEpmdK.jpg:large


Noel is taller than Dwight and DeAndre, Embiid is about the same height as Shaq.

[CavaliersFTW]

http://nk_wp_media.s3.amazonaws.com/files/2014/08/nerlens-noel-shaq-camron.png
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bwt4FCvCMAEpmdK.jpg:large


Noel is taller than Dwight and DeAndre, Embiid is about the same height as Shaq.
Yeah, Embiid is 6-10.5 to 6-11 ish, without shoes, Shaq claims he was 6-11.5 without shoes, so I already knew they were of similar height. Shaq was about 300 - 370 though which is the only reason he's in a category with Wilt - because his height and upper body looked quite visibly smaller/shorter, at least when he was younger, than Wilt. Embiid is probably going to range between 240-270 his entire career. Noel is like Bill Russell's height, 6-9 and change without shoes, and also about Bill Russell's weight (will prob range 215-240ish). I estimate once we get some good media day pics both are going to look pretty small next to Wilt, just like the rest of the guys I already put in the comparison.

[oarabbus]

What's your point?

The CURRENT has offensively inept centers like Jordan, Drummond, as among the best centers in the league. Both are smaller, weaker, much less athletic, and much less skilled than a rookie Wilt was.


Wow, why does today suck so badly? Damn. Today sucks at C, PF, SF, and SG. Maybe even PG.

Why did basketball get so much worse over the last 50 years? Even the rules are easier, and the players are worse. What gives :confusedshrug:

No baseball or football fans dispute that the leagues are by FAR the best now they've ever been, so what happened with basketball? Expanded globally and the talent went to shit huh?

[CavaliersFTW]

Wow, why does today suck so badly? Damn. Today sucks at C, PF, SF, and SG. Maybe even PG.

Why did basketball get so much worse over the last 50 years? Even the rules are easier, and the players are worse. What gives :confusedshrug:

No baseball or football fans dispute that the leagues are by FAR the best now they've ever been, so what happened with basketball? Expanded globally and the talent went to shit huh?
Straw man. That assumption is not what Laz is saying. You are making that assumption on your own. Laz obviously believes Wilt is way way better than any center today and that does not automatically mean that era >>>> today's era all across the board that's an entirely different topic. It is quite possible for Wilt to be well above and beyond the current best centers in the league, just like it is quite possible for a Magic Johnson, or a Michael Jordan to be well above and beyond the current crop of PG's or SG's... Based on several things including HOF talent and their production, and the style of the way the game was played and who the most influential players were at the time and how many people wanted to emulated them, it is without a doubt that the late 60's and early 70's was a very strong era for centers in the NBA. Possibly even the strongest.

When you are discussing GOAT candidates... they don't exist at every position all the time in any given era. Nor is the talent always stacked at every position at any given time. These things vary. Just like there are no Lebron-level SF's in the mid-90's there are no Wilt level centers now (arguably ever in his case, depending how much you emphasize his nobody-is-even-close statistical dominance).

[ArbitraryWater]

Damn, so dwight stronger than wilt confirmed??

pretty much what I can take away from OP :eek:

[oarabbus]

Straw man. That assumption is not what Laz is saying. You are making that assumption on your own. Laz obviously believes Wilt is way way better than any center today and that does not automatically mean that era >>>> today's era all across the board that's an entirely different topic. It is quite possible for Wilt to be well above and beyond the current best centers in the league, just like it is quite possible for a Magic Johnson, or a Michael Jordan to be well above and beyond the current crop of PG's or SG's... Based on several things including HOF talent and their production, and the style of the way the game was played and who the most influential players were at the time and how many people wanted to emulated them, it is without a doubt that the late 60's and early 70's was a very strong era for centers in the NBA. Possibly even the strongest.

When you are discussing GOAT candidates... they don't exist at every position all the time in any given era. Nor is the talent always stacked at every position at any given time. These things vary. Just like there are no Lebron-level SF's in the mid-90's there are no Wilt level centers now (arguably ever in his case, depending how much you emphasize his nobody-is-even-close statistical dominance).


Sure, but between these topics and 3ball's, the point is consistently made that today's Cs aren't up to par, neither are the SGs or PFs, and even today's "Golden Era" of SFs apparently just doesn't stack up to the 80s/ early 90s. There is no other sport I know of where people who watched the older eras, consistently shit on today's players. Was Jerry Rice the GOAT? Yes, by many accounts. But most people will not hesitate to acknowledge that the defensive players of his era are nothing compared to those of today (that's not to say he wouldn't dominate today though). Baseball? You have Babe Ruth, but even pre-steroids no one is arguing that 60s baseball players are better than today's.


And regarding your second bold point, of course the GOATs don't exist all the time at every position. Yet, you have people here saying that LeBron isn't shit - he's on par with a Gus Johnson (whom I've NEVER heard anyone say is a GOAT level player) which leads one to conclude that not only is today's talent shit, but even the top level players today just suck. LBJ would be a Gus Johnson. So basically the best player ever today, would be a multi-year allstar at best in the 60s is what I'm hearing.


Just statistically, the "total worldwide available talent pool" of basketball has increased thousands of times compared to the 60s. Yet, somehow, this allegedly appears to have resulted in the weakest basketball era in history.

[abuC]

Yeah, Embiid is 6-10.5 to 6-11 ish, without shoes, Shaq claims he was 6-11.5 without shoes, so I already knew they were of similar height. Shaq was about 300 - 370 though which is the only reason he's in a category with Wilt - because his height and upper body looked quite visibly smaller/shorter, at least when he was younger, than Wilt. Embiid is probably going to range between 240-270 his entire career. Noel is like Bill Russell's height, 6-9 and change without shoes, and also about Bill Russell's weight (will prob range 215-240ish). I estimate once we get some good media day pics both are going to look pretty small next to Wilt, just like the rest of the guys I already put in the comparison.

Noel is 6'10" without shoes.

The top of Noel's head is at Embiid's eyebrows, he's got atleast 2-3" on him.

[CavaliersFTW]

Noel is 6'10" without shoes.

The top of Noel's head is at Embiid's eyebrows, he's got atleast 2-3" on him.
You need to look at a variety of pictures before you conclude the top of Noels hair is at Embiids eyebrows. That's ridiculous. Embiid was not measured without shoes, but in shoes he was 7-0.5" tall, the average NBA shoe for a big man is 1.25", and some bigs show up wearing 2"+ shoes to draft camp ...particularly the ones that refuse to measure w/o shoes, which tends to indicate the player does not wish to deflate their stock because they are "shorter" than they wish to be. I give Embiid the benefit of the doubt when I say he's probably in the 6-10.5 to 6-11 range without shoes. Noel did measure 6-10 without shoes you are absolutely correct on that I just looked it up. They look similar in height. Embiid looks visibly broader and more heavily built.. but not significantly taller.

http://media.philly.com/images/92-mcwjoelnoel-600.jpg

[CavaliersFTW]

Sure, but between these topics and 3ball's, the point is consistently made that today's Cs aren't up to par, neither are the SGs or PFs, and even today's "Golden Era" of SFs apparently just doesn't stack up to the 80s/ early 90s. There is no other sport I know of where people who watched the older eras, consistently shit on today's players. Was Jerry Rice the GOAT? Yes, by many accounts. But most people will not hesitate to acknowledge that the defensive players of his era are nothing compared to those of today (that's not to say he wouldn't dominate today though). Baseball? You have Babe Ruth, but even pre-steroids no one is arguing that 60s baseball players are better than today's.


And regarding your second bold point, of course the GOATs don't exist all the time at every position. Yet, you have people here saying that LeBron isn't shit - he's on par with a Gus Johnson (whom I've NEVER heard anyone say is a GOAT level player) which leads one to conclude that not only is today's talent shit, but even the top level players today just suck. LBJ would be a Gus Johnson. So basically the best player ever today, would be a multi-year allstar at best in the 60s is what I'm hearing.


Just statistically, the "total worldwide available talent pool" of basketball has increased thousands of times compared to the 60s. Yet, somehow, this allegedly appears to have resulted in the weakest basketball era in history.
I think you are lumping every negative opinion together and projecting it onto lazeruss and/or other fans of different players and periods of time. On an individual basis I don't think anybody believes what you are projecting that I'm aware of. And I've never heard anybody say Lebron = Gus Johnson, unless it was regarding a specific facet of the game such as athleticism, or something like that. Gus was a better rebounder, possibly a better defender, but not nearly as consistent, healthy, or good a scorer/facilitator as Lebron though he was still a very "complete" player so as a generalization it is not unreasonable to compare Gus Johnson to Lebron James, such as saying "he was the Lebron of his time" or something. The devil is in the details of these generalizations, you can prob find intelligent discussion and comparison if you just ask for clarification I bet. I'd pay attention to who's saying what, and ask why, and then it prob won't seem so much like "everybody old > everybody new". Because I don't get that vibe at all. Than again I also don't follow 3balls posts. But still, there is intelligent discussions and comparisons to be had, among most posters that appreciate NBA history on here. Some guys like La Fresca and even Laz I think actually watched a good portion of past NBA hoops.

[ZMonkey11]

If Anthony Davis can dominate this league in his 2nd year, I'm thinking Wilt Chamberlain probably could have, too.

For serious guys.

[navy]

If Anthony Davis can dominate this league in his 2nd year, I'm thinking Wilt Chamberlain probably could have, too.

For serious guys.

34 wins isnt exactly dominating...

[sundizz]

There is no reason to think that Wilt wouldn't dominate today. He's a super big dude and athletic. From all accounts he is ever bigger than Javale McGee. Someone that big should be able to dominate. DJ with his pedestrian skills is a beast.

However, to try and actually say that with certainty is nonsense. There is literally no way to know....and all this garbage you guys post about how good he was in his era has no bearing on how he would do today.

As I've said before, even scouts nowadays that can spend hours watching current players on film, youtube, tv and in person are consistently wrong about how good a player would be. Primarily, they are not wrong about the level of athleticism but rather how well their skills translate to the NBA.

Would I say that he'd be the top pick coming out of college? Sure. But so were Greg Oden, Michael Olowokandi, and Sam Bowie (2). From all accounts Wilt dominated...but also didn't truly understand the concept of the team game until later on in his career. Who really knows how his egotistical self would of done with constant double teams and current NBA defenses and game to game scouting. From everything i've seen he was super strong, could jump high and was fast end to end. However, he really doesn't seem to have that explosive quickness of a Hakeem or the quickness + explosive power of a Shaq. This would matter much less on defense...but would definitely limit his ability to escape double teams on the offense.

Moreso, his being a piss poor free throw shooter would hurt him much more in this era. They'd have 2 or 3 guys on any contending team that's sole purpose would be to take fouls on him. He shot 51%.

[abuC]

You need to look at a variety of pictures before you conclude the top of Noels hair is at Embiids eyebrows. That's ridiculous. Embiid was not measured without shoes, but in shoes he was 7-0.5" tall, the average NBA shoe for a big man is 1.25", and some bigs show up wearing 2"+ shoes to draft camp ...particularly the ones that refuse to measure w/o shoes, which tends to indicate the player does not wish to deflate their stock because they are "shorter" than they wish to be. I give Embiid the benefit of the doubt when I say he's probably in the 6-10.5 to 6-11 range without shoes. Noel did measure 6-10 without shoes you are absolutely correct on that I just looked it up. They look similar in height. Embiid looks visibly broader and more heavily built.. but not significantly taller.

http://media.philly.com/images/92-mcwjoelnoel-600.jpg


Here's the full shot of your pic, Embiid doesn't have shoes on and he's taller than Noel who is 6'11.75" with them on -

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/--H-_kuViat8/VAdZnLz7C_I/AAAAAAAABK0/a1piMOhHJGI/s1600/mcwnj.jpg

Don't look at Nerlens flattop, look at his hairline and it's lower than the top of Embiids head. Embiid was 7'1" in shoes, I don't know where you're getting your numbers from but they aren't up to date. He can't be 6'11" (certainly not 6'10.5") without shoes if he's taller than Noel who is in sneakers and is just a hair under 7'0" with them.


Joel Embiid's measurements at the workout on Fri: 7' 1" in shoes, 7' 5.75" wingspan, 9' 5.5" standing reach.


https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/470707815246344193

[Marchesk]

No baseball or football fans dispute that the leagues are by FAR the best now they've ever been, so what happened with basketball? Expanded globally and the talent went to shit huh?No baseball or football fans dispute that the leagues are by FAR the best now they've ever been, so what happened with basketball? Expanded globally and the talent went to shit huh?

Are football players better? I know the rules and offensive strategies have been modified to favor the passing game, so QBs and receivers routinely put up better numbers than in the past.

But as for players, is Adrian Peterson a better back than Emitt or Barry or Payton? Would Deon or Darrell Green not still be the fastest and best cover corners today? Is a Dexter Manely or Reggie White not still dominant pass rushers?

Maybe there is improvement overall, but I'm not sure today's stars are superior. Perhaps Payton is a better prepared QB than Montana or Marino, but is he better, if we factor in the changes in the passing game?

[abuC]

I estimate once we get some good media day pics both are going to look pretty small next to Wilt, just like the rest of the guys I already put in the comparison.

Got a media day pic of Embiid and Noel together where Embiid isn't slouching to add on to the other pic I posted in the last reply.

http://i.imgur.com/wnBsUNE.png


He's noticeably taller than Noel, who is 6'11.75" in shoes.

[oarabbus]

Are football players better? I know the rules and offensive strategies have been modified to favor the passing game, so QBs and receivers routinely put up better numbers than in the past.

But as for players, is Adrian Peterson a better back than Emitt or Barry or Payton? Would Deon or Darrell Green not still be the fastest and best cover corners today? Is a Dexter Manely or Reggie White not still dominant pass rushers?

Maybe there is improvement overall, but I'm not sure today's stars are superior. Perhaps Payton is a better prepared QB than Montana or Marino, but is he better, if we factor in the changes in the passing game?


The game has definitely changed a LOT due to rule changes and the concussion fiasco. No doubt it was a different game at different points in time.

However, defensive backs and special teams are on another level today. There is no disputing it IMO, not only has the athleticism of defensive players increased tremendously, the game/coaching has evolved as well. There may have been big scary linebackers (not quite as big or scary as today) back in the day, but guys like JJ Watt, Richard Sherman, or Patrick Peterson - these guys are a new breed.

[CavaliersFTW]

Got a media day pic of Embiid and Noel together where Embiid isn't slouching to add on to the other pic I posted in the last reply.

http://i.imgur.com/wnBsUNE.png


He's noticeably taller than Noel, who is 6'11.75" in shoes.
good find, hopefully he and Noel will do a traditional media day shot like the people put into the pics in the OP, with the ball to his side in some form or another. Looks like Embiid might actually be more like a 6-11 and change without shoes size type of player, like Tyson Chandler/Lopez twins height only he's much more coordinated and fluid so if he stays healthy he definitely could turn into that classic scoring HOF center we've all been waiting for.

[jongib369]

good find, hopefully he and Noel will do a traditional media day shot like the people put into the pics in the OP, with the ball to his side in some form or another. Looks like Embiid might actually be more like a 6-11 and change without shoes size type of player, like Tyson Chandler/Lopez twins height only he's much more coordinated and fluid so if he stays healthy he definitely could turn into that classic scoring HOF center we've all been waiting for.
You should harass the shit out of him on twitter about practicing Wilts Finger roll, fade away and Kareems hook

Or make a video calling him out :lol

[jongib369]

There is no reason to think that Wilt wouldn't dominate today. He's a super big dude and athletic. From all accounts he is ever bigger than Javale McGee. Someone that big should be able to dominate. DJ with his pedestrian skills is a beast.

However, to try and actually say that with certainty is nonsense. There is literally no way to know....and all this garbage you guys post about how good he was in his era has no bearing on how he would do today.

As I've said before, even scouts nowadays that can spend hours watching current players on film, youtube, tv and in person are consistently wrong about how good a player would be. Primarily, they are not wrong about the level of athleticism but rather how well their skills translate to the NBA.

Would I say that he'd be the top pick coming out of college? Sure. But so were Greg Oden, Michael Olowokandi, and Sam Bowie (2). From all accounts Wilt dominated...but also didn't truly understand the concept of the team game until later on in his career. Who really knows how his egotistical self would of done with constant double teams and current NBA defenses and game to game scouting. From everything i've seen he was super strong, could jump high and was fast end to end. However, he really doesn't seem to have that explosive quickness of a Hakeem or the quickness + explosive power of a Shaq. This would matter much less on defense...but would definitely limit his ability to escape double teams on the offense.

Moreso, his being a piss poor free throw shooter would hurt him much more in this era. They'd have 2 or 3 guys on any contending team that's sole purpose would be to take fouls on him. He shot 51%.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Vy1F0VB7IwE/UQytNdg07JI/AAAAAAAAEJ0/tmfA9ARfGKI/s800/WiltFootwork1.gif

Quickness like that? Serious question, not being condescending thinking that gif makes a point

[abuC]

good find, hopefully he and Noel will do a traditional media day shot like the people put into the pics in the OP, with the ball to his side in some form or another. Looks like Embiid might actually be more like a 6-11 and change without shoes size type of player, like Tyson Chandler/Lopez twins height only he's much more coordinated and fluid so if he stays healthy he definitely could turn into that classic scoring HOF center we've all been waiting for.

I think there's a fair chance he's 7'0" without shoes, Tyson was 6'11.5" without shoes and 7'0.5" with them, while Embiid is 7'1" in shoes (Lopez isn't 7'1" in shoes either). He was taller without shoes than Noel is with them, so being 7'0" without shoes isn't really much of a stretch.

If he stays healthy he could be great but judging by his college career that seems a bit unlikely, his body seems too big for it's own good.

[sundizz]

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Vy1F0VB7IwE/UQytNdg07JI/AAAAAAAAEJ0/tmfA9ARfGKI/s800/WiltFootwork1.gif

Quickness like that? Serious question, not being condescending thinking that gif makes a point

I honestly don't see that as quickness + power explosiveness. There are two plays in that gif:

1st one: His guy just played stupid defense and cheated and he did a simple drop stuff (with pretty good quickness). However, there was no resistance....so being quick with no resistance is not what I'm talking about. Yes, he is quicker than a Roy Hibbert...but no he's not explosive quick like Shaq in that gif. If for example he did a super quick move, used his strength to move the guy out of the way en route to the rim using the move and then dunked through traffic that is what I consider quickness + explosive power. A player being in front of Shaq didn't stop him from just exploding through/by him.

A player being in front of Chamberlain usually resulted in him not trying to go through him (maybe the rules etc) and resulted in a more methodical movement. He usually out positioned a player rather than used quickness + explosive power.

2nd one: Nothing to say about that one. I don't think that is what you were talking about. Was just some layup due to being lanky and defense being weak.

[jongib369]

https://33.media.tumblr.com/95c43884f375e084027302e00e620f3a/tumblr_ncqkz9BLIy1td15w4o1_500.jpg

https://31.media.tumblr.com/cfa69f8bb02423b528a0c624b1a182e2/tumblr_ncqkz9BLIy1td15w4o2_500.jpg

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/ItemImages/000112/116561d_lg.jpeg

[HomieWeMajor]

Both Noel and Embiid are legit 7 footers. In fact Embiid is pushing 7'2. CavsFTW you know I only make these posts to wind you up.