A question about player rankings.

[JerrySeinfeld]

I think that LeBron and Durant are both 1a and 1b in the NBA. For me personally I like LeBron and the fact that he brought us two championships, so I'm more inclined to take him, but it's really as close as you can possibly get.

That being said, as the player ranking lists started to get made this offseason, I expected a fair amount of people to have Durant as the #1 player in the NBA. Maybe at worst around thirty percent but more likely around fifty percent.

After all he had just came off a whole season where he posted better numbers than LeBron did while also playing in a tougher conference. But every list I have seen so far has LeBron as the #1 player in the NBA still. I'm a newer NBA fan so maybe I don't know how these things work and someone can fill me in.

Are people (fans) usually late to admit when someone new is the best player in the NBA? And does a player HAVE to win a ring to get that title?

[JT123]

You don't take the title of best player in the NBA based on regular season accomplishments. People remember that Lebron was far better in the playoffs, and they respect the fact that he is a 2 time Champion. As soon as Durant outperforms Lebron in the regular season AND playoffs, more people will start calling him the best in the league.

[JerrySeinfeld]

I guess I should clarify my stance more. Judging strictly off of on the court play, I think that Durant is better than LeBron, which we saw last year.

But accounting for off the court things like marketability and ability to recruit teammates, LeBron is truly in a class of his own and that really makes it close. He in just a few short months took Cleveland from picking first overall into being instant title favorites.

[PsychoBe]

You don't take the title of best player in the NBA based on regular season accomplishments. People remember that Lebron was far better in the playoffs, and they respect the fact that he is a 2 time Champion. As soon as Durant outperforms Lebron in the regular season AND playoffs, more people will start calling him the best in the league.

kd was the best player last year in almost every way.

[JerrySeinfeld]

You don't take the title of best player in the NBA based on regular season accomplishments. People remember that Lebron was far better in the playoffs, and they respect the fact that he is a 2 time Champion. As soon as Durant outperforms Lebron in the regular season AND playoffs, more people will start calling him the best in the league.

LeBron was a beast in the playoffs and didn't have much help, but it's not like he was even challenged until the Finals.

[JerrySeinfeld]

kd was the best player last year in almost every way.

LeBron as expected was the better playmaker, but Durant really stepped his game up last year.

I thought Durant was done improving after his 2013 season too. I truly thought that he couldn't get any better than that.

[Glass Ankles]

Probably has something to do with the fact Lebron is better than Durant at everything, including scoring and shooting, as he proved in the playoffs when Durant was busy getting shut down by midgets.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Probably has something to do with the fact Lebron is better than Durant at everything, including scoring and shooting, as he proved in the playoffs when Durant was busy getting shut down by midgets.

If what Durant did was getting "shut down" then he quite possibly has the biggest standards I've ever seen for an athlete. Maybe thats why so little people are ranking him as #1?

[JT123]

LeBron was a beast in the playoffs and didn't have much help, but it's not like he was even challenged until the Finals.
So putting up great stats against the Bobcats and Pacers, who were 2 of the top 5 defensive teams in the league, isn't being challenged? :rolleyes:
Also, that Nets series was much closer than the 4-1 result indicated. Game 2 was basically even until the last 6 minutes, and games 4 and 5 could have gone either way. If Lebron performs even slightly worse, the Heat don't win that series.

[JerrySeinfeld]

So putting up great stats against the Bobcats and Pacers, who were 2 of the top 5 defensive teams in the league, isn't being challenged? :rolleyes:

Come on man, when Melo or LeBron scored 60 points on the Bobcats almost everyone laughed it off because they are the Bobcats. It just so happens in the East that they are a playoff team as well. And if you even followed the NBA last season you would have watched the Pacers epic collapse that happened after the all star break. As soon as that happened everyone knew it was going to be Miami in the Finals.

And I'm not sure how defensive rankings are formulated, but I'm sure being in the East would favor ranking higher on that list.

[PsychoBe]

So putting up great stats against the Bobcats and Pacers, who were 2 of the top 5 defensive teams in the league, isn't being challenged? :rolleyes:
Also, that Nets series was much closer than the 4-1 result indicated. Game 2 was basically even until the last 6 minutes, and games 4 and 5 could have gone either way. If Lebron performs even slightly worse, the Heat don't win that series.

the lolcats let melo and bran score career highs on them and they lost jefferson in the playoffs and the pacers had the biggest 1st seed meltdown since seattle that happened for 3 rounds.

the heat weren't challenged until the finals and we all know how that story went.

[JerrySeinfeld]

I'm surprised at how much hate Durant gets on here. I don't want him to win because I'd prefer my team does, but I'm not going to hate on the guy for making it to the WCF and taking the Spurs to six tough games.

Doc Rivers said that he truly believed that every team in the West last year was a contender and I do as well. I don't see why we have to bring Durant down just because his team only performed like the 2nd best team last year after one of the best teams I've ever seen in the Spurs.

And I'm also not part of the majority that thinks that a playoffs average of 30/9/4 on 57% TS vs three GREAT teams is getting "shut down."

[JT123]

Come on man, when Melo or LeBron scored 60 points on the Bobcats almost everyone laughed it off because they are the Bobcats. It just so happens in the East that they are a playoff team as well. And if you even followed the NBA last season you would have watched the Pacers epic collapse that happened after the all star break. As soon as that happened everyone knew it was going to be Miami in the Finals.

And I'm not sure how defensive rankings are formulated, but I'm sure being in the East would favor ranking higher on that list.
The Pacers had a winning record against the West, and that is because they are a great defensive team. So trying to suggest that they were only a good defensive team because they were in the East is ludicrous. The only people who laughed off Lebron's 61 point game were Lebron's haters, because they laugh off and try to dismiss all of his accomplishments. If you had actually watched basketball last season you would realize that the Bobcats were no joke, and they held your boy Durant to an 8/24 shooting game. Quit trying to come off as neutral. You clearly think Durant has surpassed Lebron, at least have to balls to admit it.

[JerrySeinfeld]

The Pacers had a winning record against the West, and that is because they are a great defensive team. So trying to suggest that they were only a good defensive team because they were in the East is ludicrous. The only people who laughed off Lebron's 61 point game were Lebron's haters, because they off course laugh off and try to dismiss all of his accomplishments. If you had actually watched basketball last season you would realize that the Bobcats were no joke, and they held your boy Durant to an 8/24 shooting game. Quit trying to come off as neutral. You clearly think Durant has surpassed Lebron, at least have to balls to admit it.

I already explained my stance. I think that Durant on the court has became a better player than LeBron, but LeBron provides a greater off the court impact by being more marketable and being better at recruiting teammates.

Like I said, I'd probably take LeBron over Durant because I'm a Heat fan and I'm not bitter about him leaving. I'm simply just surprised at how little lists have Durant as #1 for next season after he outplayed LeBron last season and has the youth advantage.

Maybe LeBron going to Cleveland allowed him to keep the title as #1? It's hard to imagine him having much momentum had he stayed in Miami after we got crushed by the Spurs.

[JT123]

I'm surprised at how much hate Durant gets on here. I don't want him to win because I'd prefer my team does, but I'm not going to hate on the guy for making it to the WCF and taking the Spurs to six tough games.

Doc Rivers said that he truly believed that every team in the West last year was a contender and I do as well. I don't see why we have to bring Durant down just because his team only performed like the 2nd best team last year after one of the best teams I've ever seen in the Spurs.

And I'm also not part of the majority that thinks that a playoffs average of 30/9/4 on 57% TS vs three GREAT teams is getting "shut down."
:oldlol: Durant barely even get's mentioned on here. I only mention him when posters like russwest0/Fudge start talking shit about Lebron. I'll be serious in this thread and admit that Durant is one of the most elite talents of the post Jordan era, but until he has a postseason that lives up to his regular season he will always be in second place.

[JerrySeinfeld]

:oldlol: Durant barely even get's mentioned on here. I only mention him when posters like russwest0/Fudge start talking shit about Lebron. I'll be serious in this thread and admit that Durant is one of the most elite talents of the post Jordan era, but until he has a postseason that lives up to his regular season he will always be in second place.

He had a great postseason in 2012, I think even better than his regular season, the Heat were just better than the Thunder that year.

He still beat the Spurs who probably would have beaten Miami though.

[JT123]

Maybe LeBron going to Cleveland allowed him to keep the title as #1? It's hard to imagine him having much momentum had he stayed in Miami after we got crushed by the Spurs.
:roll: Reaching hard with this one. Plenty of fans think Durant has surpassed Lebron. Thing is, no respected basketball analyst is gonna put their name on a statement like that until Durant outperforms Lebron in the playoffs or wins a ring. When Lebron overtook Kobe it was different because Lebron obviously had a much weaker supporting cast, and thus had a legit excuse for not winning a ring. Durant's team has been good enough to win a ring since 2011, and all KD has to show for it is 1 Finals appearance? :wtf:

[JerrySeinfeld]

:roll: Reaching hard with this one. Plenty of fans think Durant has surpassed Lebron. Thing is, no respected basketball analyst is gonna put their name on a statement like that until Durant outperforms Lebron in the playoffs or wins a ring. When Lebron overtook Kobe it was different because Lebron obviously had a much weaker supporting cast, and thus had an excuse for not winning a ring. Durant's team has been good enough to win a ring since 2011, and all KD has to show for it is 1 Finals appearance? :wtf:

It's all relative. You can't downplay LeBron losing in the Finals because the Spurs are an amazing team but then subsequently criticize Durant for only making the Finals once in three years when Westbrook got hurt one of those years and the other, well, the Spurs happened.

This is what I mean when I say that I don't know where all of this Durant hate is coming from. Most of it doesn't even make any sense.

[JT123]

It's all relative. You can't downplay LeBron losing in the Finals because the Spurs are an amazing team but then subsequently criticize Durant for only making the Finals once in three years when Westbrook got hurt one of those years and the other, well, the Spurs happened.

This is what I mean when I say that I don't know where all of this Durant hate is coming from. Most of it doesn't even make any sense.
Again, I don't see what "hate" Durant is getting. I guess in your mind people not bowing down to Durant and calling him the best in the league after outperforming Lebron for ONE regular season is "hate?" :confusedshrug:
Durant is probably the least criticized superstar in NBA history to be honest. If anything he is over protected. Not sure how long you have followed the NBA, but Lebron was getting crucified for not having a ring when he was Durant's age.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Again, I don't see what "hate" Durant is getting. I guess in your mind people not bowing down to Durant and calling him the best in the league after outperforming Lebron for ONE regular season is "hate?" :confusedshrug:
Durant is probably the least criticized superstar in NBA history to be honest. If anything he is over protected. Not sure how long you have followed the NBA, but Lebron was getting crucified for not having a ring when he was Durant's age.

I think that the LeBron's heavy criticism before winning a ring was mostly because how he handled leaving Cleveland paired with just how bad his 2011 Finals series was.

When Durant lost in the 2012 Finals it was nothing like when LeBron lost the year prior. He hadn't came fresh off of leaving his hometown team via live television and promising "not one, not two..." rings, and he also played much better in defeat than LeBron did.

It'd be stupid to compare the two.

[JT123]

I think that the LeBron's heavy criticism before winning a ring was mostly because how he handled leaving Cleveland paired with just how bad his 2011 Finals series was.

When Durant lost in the 2012 Finals it was nothing like when LeBron lost the year prior. He hadn't came fresh off of leaving his hometown team via live television and promising "not one, not two..." rings, and he also played much better in defeat than LeBron did.

It'd be stupid to compare the two.
This is only half true. When he first went to Miami he was probably the most criticized athlete in the history of sports, but he started getting criticized well before he even left Cleveland. And he never had teammates anywhere near as good as Westbrook, Ibaka, and Harden.

[dubeta]

If Durant is the best player now jusst because of stats, then LeBron starting being the best player in the game since like 2006