Best Off-Ball players in the last 30 years?

[dubeta]

Which players were best at playing off-ball? Like they could move without the ball, make one quick move, and then score? Players who could fit in various offenses, without getting in other peoples way?

IMO its:

Reggie Miller

Rip Hamilton

Ray Allen

LeBron James

Brandon Roy

Larry Bird

[c5terror]

Which players were best at playing off-ball? Like they could move without the ball, make one quick move, and then score? Players who could fit in various offenses, without getting in other peoples way?

IMO its:

Reggie Miller

Rip Hamilton

Ray Allen

LeBron James

Brandon Roy

Larry Bird

LOL at lebron james.
He's worst at this department.
if you're going to rate Lebron James Off-ball offense 1-10 and 10 is being the highest then his rate would be -1.

[Cold soul]

I think you have to go with Reggie Miller here.

[JerrySeinfeld]

how these ****ing idiots can go by without a ban is beyond me....

LeBron is an amazing player but everyone knows his strength is with the ball in his hands and that he typically doesn't do much off ball in the half court.

Stop trying to make everyone hate LeBron.

-Jerry

[dubeta]

LOL at lebron james.
He's worst at this department.
if you're going to rate Lebron James Off-ball offense 1-10 and 10 is being the highest then his rate would be -1.

Mods....

[dubeta]

how these ****ing idiots can go by without a ban is beyond me....

LeBron is an amazing player but everyone knows his strength is with the ball in his hands and that he typically doesn't do much off ball in the half court.

Stop trying to make everyone hate LeBron.

-Jerry

Mods...

[JT123]

LOL at lebron james.
He's worst at this department.
if you're going to rate Lebron James Off-ball offense 1-10 and 10 is being the highest then his rate would be -1.
Funny how you and Jerry keep posting in the same threads. :rolleyes:
You wouldn't mind if the mods did an ip check, would you?

[fiddy]

Mods....
You want a ban?

[andremiller07]

Shawn Marion

[JerrySeinfeld]

How on earth has Jason Terry not been mentioned yet?

-Jerry

[SHAQisGOAT]

LeBron? :wtf: :oldlol: Gtfoh

Anyways, when you talk about the best off-ball (overall) players ever, I think of:

Reggie

Bird

Ray-Ray

Adrian Dantley

Pistol Pete

Rip Hamilton

Dale Ellis

Bill Walton

Dennis Johnson

John Havlicek

Jeff Hornacek

...............

[c5terror]

Funny how you and Jerry keep posting in the same threads. :rolleyes:
You wouldn't mind if the mods did an ip check, would you?
Go ahead.
Funny how you and the OP smells like an undercover lebron hater.LOL

[CeltsGarlic]

James Anderson

[MP.Trey]

Lebron's terrible off the ball unless it's a fast break. Even Wade's better. Rip & Reggie obviously stand out but since these threads are usually limited to perimeter players, how about Shaq? The Black Tornado off the ball to alley-oop as well as the ability to get post position where ever he wants, whenever he wants whether fast break or half court. Got to be a candidate, am I right?

[3ball]

Lebron doesn't make quick moves when he catches it, nor does he play off-ball much.... for one, he only posts 8% of the time, which is very low, and posting is part of playing off-ball... Lebron is also only an average leaper off two feet, which hurts him as an off-ball player in comparison to the all-time greats.

[3ball]

Like they could move without the ball, make one quick move, and then score? Players who could fit in various offenses, without getting in other peoples way?



http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/9fd33210ffbcdbe117830fd26bef5f34.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/a88b76f03bde2d1e73d6223789b0968a.gif

[L.A. Jazz]

The whole 2014 Spurs team. they all moved, passed, moved constantly. Miami couldnt find them.

[3ball]

The whole 2014 Spurs team. they all moved, passed, moved constantly. Miami's couldnt keep up with them.


Each Spur chipped in - No player in particular from the Spurs displayed great off-ball talent or skill, or anything near the best in 30 years (the title of the thread).... The Spurs off-ball talent was the same as the Heat's.. The Heat's talent was just underutilized because it's off-ball play lacked the strategic sophistication of the Spurs.

Keep in mind that the Spurs only played great offensively against the Heat... only the Heat... all their other opponents held them in check..

Not only were the Heat the only team to allow the Spurs play great offensively, but the Heat's offense happened to score by far the least points of any Spurs opponent - this worst offense actually hurt them as as much as their defense and in more ways than the obvious.

A better offense can limit the Spurs offensive momentum by not letting the Spurs get consecutive buckets all the time, which gets their confidence, adrenaline, optimism and energy going - it's easier to score (or do anything) with those things... It's easier for a fighter to have confidence to go in for the kill if he knows he isn't getting hit back, or to keep beating the crap out of a helpless victim with increasing intensity..

It's not a coincidence that the Spurs could do these things and have more confidence and a better offense against the Heat than anyone else - the Heat's offense was the most limp and therefore could curb the Spurs' momentum the least.. So no surprise that the Spurs momentum boiled over and made it harder for the Heat's defense than it would have if the Heat's offense didn't generate by far the least number of points of any Spurs opponent.

So the Heat's offense was figured out by the Spurs, who had been heartbroken the previous year, and the Heat's suboptimal offense got exposed in the Finals... This is a fact.

And this is what Chalmers refers to when he says he'll be better next year - he feels he'll get to playmake more, which is better than his normal spot-duty, sporadically-used ball-handler he was last year... So the Heat's offense might be a little worse overall, but it will be better utilized than when Lebron's need to play on-ball a little too much prevented players from playing to their strengths... And you never know, the Heat offense might not end up being a little worse next year - it should be interesting with Bosh getting bumped up to permanent #2 status and probably more than just a floor-spreader... and of course with Wade's health and new status as the lead guy again.
.

[Marchesk]

Can posters be banned for stating completely false information? For example, listing Lebron as one of the best off-ball players. :wtf:

[aj1987]

And this is what Chalmers refers to when he says he'll be better next year - he feels he'll get to playmake more, which is better than his normal spot-duty, sporadically-used ball-handler he was last year.
.

:facepalm

You've obviously never seen the Heat play a lot. Dude is a fat POS, who has the IQ of a rock. Acts like he's the best PG in the league and plays like a D-Leaguer.

Also, what's with you constantly taking shots at LeBron? It's becoming a bit pathetic, TBH. If LeBron prevented Bosh from playing to his strengths, what explains his pathetic defense and rebounding? Shitmers low IQ and crap defense? etc..


Miller and Allen are probably in the top tier when it comes to off-ball play. LeBron? LOL! Dude is decent. Nothing more than that.

[imdaman99]

:facepalm

You've obviously never seen the Heat play a lot. Dude is a fat POS, who has the IQ of a rock. Acts like he's the best PG in the league and plays like a D-Leaguer.

Also, what's with you constantly taking shots at LeBron? It's becoming a bit pathetic, TBH. If LeBron prevented Bosh from playing to his strengths, what explains his pathetic defense and rebounding? Shitmers low IQ and crap defense? etc..


Miller and Allen are probably in the top tier when it comes to off-ball play. LeBron? LOL! Dude is decent. Nothing more than that.
Your avatar says you are a Heat fan but you're obviously another retarded branstan.

The Heat don't win 2 rings without Bosh's "pathetic defense".

Duncan had 1 dominant game against him, it happens. But Bosh blocked Parker many times and he was a big part in the team defense. Sure this year, the Heat got exposed on defense... but give the Spurs ball movement and 3 point shooting credit. I know for a fact that has been the Heat's achilles heel these last 4 years since teams with great ball movement gave them trouble.

Go log in with your other account lebronx*rings

OP mentioned bran, but no one takes OP seriously anyway. Bran's name does not belong in this thread.

[fpliii]

Not the best, but Wade's improved substantially in that regard in the past few years. He'll probably be in more of a ball-dominant role this season, but he's adept both with and without the ball at this point IMO.

[aj1987]

Your avatar says you are a Heat fan but you're obviously another retarded branstan.
You should be the last one to talk. Around 90% of your retarded posts are of you hating on the Heat/LeBron.


The Heat don't win 2 rings without Bosh's "pathetic defense".
Have you been living in a cave the past 2 years? Or did you confuse someone else with Bosh?


Duncan had 1 dominant game against him, it happens. But Bosh blocked Parker many times and he was a big part in the team defense. Sure this year, the Heat got exposed on defense... but give the Spurs ball movement and 3 point shooting credit. I know for a fact that has been the Heat's achilles heel these last 4 years since teams with great ball movement gave them trouble.
Holy shit, you're an idiot. Convenient of you to forget about the ECF. Duncan went from 18/9 on 50% TS to 19/12 on 55% TS. He had two bad games and if it wasn't for those two games, his averages would've been significantly better. Yeah, Bosh blocked 6' TP twice in a 7 game series. Even the Heat haters were saying that Bosh was getting wrecked by even average bigs. Forget about the Finals. Almost every decent big had a field day against Bosh. Roy Hibbert scored 22/10 on 61% TS against him. Let that sink in.


Go log in with your other account lebronx*rings
Unlike you, I have only one account, jimmyx.

[Burgz V2]

Lebron doesn't make quick moves when he catches it, nor does he play off-ball much.... for one, he only posts 8% of the time, which is very low, and posting is part of playing off-ball... Lebron is also only an average leaper off two feet, which hurts him as an off-ball player in comparison to the all-time greats.

average? that's completely ridiculous. Compared to who? Himself as a one-foot jumper? Do you actually know what the word "average" means?

[scm5]

I would argue that MJ is in contention for the best off-ball player ever.

[Thorpesaurous]

Reggie, Ray, and Rip, are the first guys that come to mind, but I always feel it's a little bit of an overstatement, because even though they played without the ball, the entire offense was set up to get them the ball for some of the best runs of their career. So they were sort of occupying the ball while not actually having it, because most everyone else on the team is trying to get them open, albeit by design, but still. Ray is less so the case, but that was a big part of his action in Boston.

[brandonislegend]

Why would you even put LeBron on any list involving off ball....

[OldSchoolBBall]

I would argue that MJ is in contention for the best off-ball player ever.

Seriously. Hysterical that he's not getting mentioned here at least, and that the OP had LEBRON of all people and not Jordan, who shits on James as an off-ball player.

[imdaman99]

I think both MJ and Kobe were tremendous off-ball players. The problem with Kobe was that he didn't have anyone with Pippen-like passing on his team. Brian Shaw was pretty good, but he was no Scottie.

And there's obviously the usual guys like Reggie, Rip and RayRay later in his career.

[The_Pharcyde]

Yeah Jordan is forsure up there as one of the best off the ball especially from 1996-1998 where Jordan played in the post the majority of the time

Rip Hamilton and Reggie miller are imo the 2 best

[SHAQisGOAT]

Some people think that great off-ball movement is "only"/mostly going through screens in order to hit uncontested jumpers but don't forget about cutting through screens getting to the paint, getting inside position, rolling to the hoop, and even setting screens, plus taking your man "out of the way"... That's why I've also mentioned Dennis Johnson (one of the greatest cutters ever and even more than that, off-ball), Bill Walton (incredibly smart at setting screens/picks, giving and going, cutting for alley-oops, so on) or Adrian Dantley (terrific at getting position down low, using his body to quickly score after he catched the ball and whatnot).
Even got players that were good at plenty of those "things", like Dale Ellis who was a great shooter that really knew how to get open but also knew how to cut towards the basket using his height to score. Then you also got a player like Bird who was a master and very complete off-ball player... extremely smart at making his way through screens to get open, always knew where to position himself in order to help his and teammates' games, very good at getting position down-low, he set screens, and I always loved how he roamed around the paint a bit before going through screen(s) just to see if his man turned his head (trying to slip the screen, waiting for the jumper) so he could get a bunny.

[FatComputerNerd]

Homer HM for Anderson Varejao!

[dubeta]

So what i'm getting from this thread, is that its basically a 3 way tie between reggie miller, Lebron, and Jordan?

imo strengths of each:

Reggie Miller

-Catch and Shoot
-Shoot of Screens


LeBron
- Pick and Post
-Pick and Roll
-Spot up Shooter
-Back door cuts to the basket
- Seal his man under

MJ
-Quick catch and shoot
- catch and Post fadeaway
-One dribble finish at the rim

[riseagainst]

lebron

:roll:
:roll:
:roll:

[chips93]

Lebron doesn't make quick moves when he catches it, nor does he play off-ball much.... for one, he only posts 8% of the time, which is very low, and posting is part of playing off-ball... Lebron is also only an average leaper off two feet, which hurts him as an off-ball player in comparison to the all-time greats.

sometimes he takes his time to survey the floor, and can be too slow in his moves, but thats not all the time

a lot of his post ups in miami were with a 4-out-1-in formation, where he would just seal his man, the heat would swing it around to the easiest pass, and lebron would make a quick move and score.

it wasnt very complex, but it was a very quick post move that he used really well.

in that regard lebron is pretty good off the ball, but other than that, nothing stands out.