Better duo : "Lebron & Phil" or "M.Jordan & Spoelstra" ?

[Tycriss]

Your choice ?

[JT123]

Any top 10 player would win multiple rings with Phil. :lol
Lebron is probably the only top 10 player who could win multiple rings with that glorified video coordinator down in Miami.
Nuff said.

[Richesly]

Are you implying either coach is good?

They both suck and Phil is probably the most overrated person ever in the NBA.

[3ball]

Jordan's superior, more versatile scoring capabilities would make Spo into a better coach.

It's a lot easier for a coach when you know you can put your star player anywhere on the floor and there won't be any drop-off in production - Spo wouldn't have to cow-tow and design the offense around Jordan's strengths like he had to do with Lebron... Spo would be able to design the offense around the ROLE PLAYERS' strengths and tell Jordan to go fit in somewhere.

This would result in a better team where the role players consistently performed very well (as they always did next to Jordan), as opposed to the consistent underperformance we saw from role players alongside Lebron.

This is what Phil did with Jordan - the triangle was an "equal opportunity offense" designed so regular players had an equal opportunity to playmake just like the star players - Jordan had to fit his game into this system and he was able to do so seemlessly due to his ability to get 50 playing off-ball only, just like he could get 50 playing as the primary ballhandler only.. he could play anywhere on the floor and maintain the same production... :confusedshrug:
.

[JT123]

Spo would be able to design the offense around the ROLE PLAYERS' strengths and tell Jordan to go fit in somewhere.
:roll: :roll: :roll: Possibly the dumbest thing ever said on ISH. Congrats, that is not an easy thing to pull off. :applause:

[rlsmooth775]

Jordan's superior, more versatile scoring capabilities would make Spo into a better coach.

It's a lot easier for a coach when you know you can put your star player anywhere on the floor and there won't be any drop-off in production - Spo wouldn't have to cow-tow and design the offense around Jordan's strengths like he had to do with Lebron... Spo would be able to design the offense around the ROLE PLAYERS' strengths and tell Jordan to go fit in somewhere.

This would result in a better team where the role players consistently performed very well (as they always did next to Jordan), as opposed to the consistent underperformance we saw from role players alongside Lebron.

This is what Phil did with Jordan - the triangle was an "equal opportunity offense" designed so regular players had an equal opportunity to playmake just like the star players - Jordan had to fit his game into this system and he was able to do so seemlessly due to his ability to get 50 playing off-ball only, just like he could get 50 playing as the primary ballhandler only.. he could play anywhere on the floor and maintain the same production... :confusedshrug:
.


lol don't overrate jordan his team could win 55 games without him and if he makes everyone better why did he struggle so many years unlike bird who took a mediocre team to 60 wins his first season

[Sarcastic]

The one with Jordan.

I don't think LeBron could play in the triangle. He would just resort to LeBron-ball.

[JT123]

lol don't overrate jordan his team could win 55 games without him and if he makes everyone better why did he struggle so many years unlike bird who took a mediocre team to 60 wins his first season
This. Chicago's role players improved their ppg AND field goal percentage after Jordan left to go play baseball. Probably would have won a Championship if not for Hue Hollins BS call. :facepalm
The 93-94 season is proof that Jordan made NO ONE better.

[kennethgriffin]

lebron doesnt listen to coaches anyway. he runs his own offense called "i'm lebron, i'm gonna make everyone stand at the three point line while i drive and look for a layup. if defenders collapse. i might pass you the ball



he's been doing this his entire career.

lebron would refuse a role in the triangle offense. he'd never get another triple double. and thats more important to lebron than rings. he loves his make shift stats

[3ball]

Spo would be able to design the offense around the ROLE PLAYERS' strengths and tell Jordan to go fit in somewhere.





Possibly the dumbest thing ever said on ISH.


The truth sounds dumb to you?... good to know...

But that's exactly what the triangle was - it catered to the role players by making them playmake just like the stars... This gave Jordan less time to playmake himself, and forced him to make quicker decisions while playing off-ball much more.

What did you think Longley was doing when they would dump it to him on the post and everyone would cut through?... It was Longley's option to either call his number or playmake by hitting a cutter or shooter with a pass... you know... playmake.

All role players got to be in this position where they would catch it in the high post and have the opportunity to playmake... And again, this not only took away from Jordan's primary ball-handler responsibilities and made him play off-ball, but reduced the amount of TIME he had to make decisions once he caught the ball.... NO PROBLEM... :rockon:

[rlsmooth775]

lebron doesnt listen to coaches anyway. he runs his own offense called "i'm lebron, i'm gonna make everyone stand at the three point line while i drive and look for a layup. if defenders collapse. i might pass you the ball



he's been doing this his entire career.

lebron would refuse a role in the triangle offense. he'd never get another triple double. and thats more important to lebron than rings. he loves his make shift stats

Still a better than kobe bryant ever was

[oarabbus]

Come on now. Lebron + Phil >>>> Jordan + Spoelstra

[3ball]

This. Chicago's role players improved their ppg AND field goal percentage after Jordan left to go play baseball. Probably would have won a Championship if not for Hue Hollins BS call. :facepalm
The 93-94 season is proof that Jordan made NO ONE better.
lol..

So a 2nd round exit team is the same as a 3-time defending champion all-time great team 72 wins?

Because that was the difference of NO Jordan (2nd-round playoff team), and HAVING Jordan (3-time defending champion, all-time great team 72 wins)

Pretty big difference.. :banana:

[Hey Yo]

Door number 1, Paul Silas?

Door number 2, Mike Brown?

Door number 3, Phil Jackson?

Or door number 4, Eric Spoelstra?

[Soundwave]

I don't think coaching honestly makes that *huge* of a difference.

All the coaches have training staffs that brief the players on the same strategies and scour tons of video/scouting.

In NBA basketball the better roster wins like 85%+ of the time, first round upsets for example almost never happen in the NBA, whereas they can happen in football or hockey much more often.

Spoelstra isn't a genius but he isn't an idiot either. If you gave him Shaq + Kobe and Jordan + Pippen in the same corresponding years as Phil got, they'd likely win the same number of titles.

[rlsmooth775]

lol..

So a 2nd round exit team is the same as a 3-time defending champion all-time great team 72 wins?

Because that was the difference of NO Jordan (2nd-round playoff team), and HAVING Jordan (3-time defending champion, all-time great team 72 wins)

Pretty big difference.. :banana:

Pippen without jordan did more than jordan without pippen I think that's what he meant

[3ball]

Come on now. Lebron + Phil >>>> Jordan + Spoelstra



A lack of basketball knowledge showing it's head here..

To match Jordan's success in the triangle, you need someone with Jordan's post game and off-ball game because that is what the triangle is all about - feeding the post.... and you also need someone that makes lightning quick decisions from the post as well.

Lebron falls vastly short in these areas - his primary ballhandler style is literally toxic to the triangle... Lebron's core style is exactly what the triangle AVOIDS.. real talk.

[Sarcastic]

lebron doesnt listen to coaches anyway. he runs his own offense called "i'm lebron, i'm gonna make everyone stand at the three point line while i drive and look for a layup. if defenders collapse. i might pass you the ball



he's been doing this his entire career.

lebron would refuse a role in the triangle offense. he'd never get another triple double. and thats more important to lebron than rings. he loves his make shift stats


Agreed. It would take LeBron 4, maybe 5 years, to learn how to play in the triangle.

[rlsmooth775]

So pippen can lead the bulls to 55 wins second round with Phil but lebron would be cancer to the triangle lol

[rlsmooth775]

Jordan fans are delusional to how much his team needed him

[3ball]

Jordan fans are delusional to how much his team needed him
You do realize that Jordan's status as the all-time leader in Win Shares and WS/48 means he contributed more to his team's wins than anyone in history.

[rlsmooth775]

You do realize that Jordan's status as the all-time leader in Win Shares and WS/48 means he contributed more to his team's wins than anyone in history.
You do realize pip had more success without jordan than jordan without pip

[rlsmooth775]

Lol at jordan fans thinking michael was the only way the triangle can work

[Sarcastic]

So pippen can lead the bulls to 55 wins second round with Phil but lebron would be cancer to the triangle lol


They had an SRS of 2.87 that year. They were winning games by the skin of their teeth. They played with a chip on their shoulder, and wanted to show that they weren't just all about Jordan. They put up a valiant effort, but came up short in the end.

[3ball]

Lol at jordan fans thinking michael was the only way the triangle can work


For Phil to get 11 rings with the triangle, he needed players with ELITE, ALL-TIME, GOAT-LEVEL post games.

This would be Jordan, Shaq, Kobe.

Lebron's skillset obviously doesn't fit...

The offense would have to be much different, which means he'd be a big underdog to duplicate the success of the superior post players just mentioned, that the triangle required for optimal effectiveness.

[rlsmooth775]

Jordan fans have no comeback to pip having more success without jordan than the other way around :roll: :roll: :roll:

[rlsmooth775]

Why did the supposed greatest player of all time suck so hard without pip and Phil

[dubeta]

Jordan needs a system tailor made for his needs just to be successful, the dude was basically 1-9 without Phil

Jordan was basically Carmelo without Phil Jackson, Phil had to design a system from scratch just to help MJ get passed the first round


On the other hand LeBron can win rings without a system, due to his extraordinary playmaking skills


MJ without the triangle tailored made, is like a fish out of water :oldlol:

LeBron just needs the supplementary parts, and doesnt even need a system and can still win rings :applause:

[3ball]

Jordan fans have no comeback to pip having more success without jordan than the other way around :roll: :roll: :roll:
the argument is so dumb it's not worth a response.

[rlsmooth775]

Jordan needs a system tailor made for his needs just to be successful, the dude was basically 1-9 without Phil

Jordan was basically Carmelo without Phil Jackson, Phil had to design a system from scratch just to help MJ get passed the first round


On the other hand LeBron can win rings without a system, due to his extraordinary playmaking skills


MJ without the triangle tailored made, is like a fish out of water :oldlol:

LeBron just needs the supplementary parts, and doesnt even need a system and can still win rings :applause:

Lebron wins rings with no system leading his team in ppg rpg apg guards the best point guards on the opposing teams jordan had it easy compared to lebron he had pip to do half the work

[rlsmooth775]

the argument is so dumb it's not worth a response.

It's a fact I just find it funny the "greatest player"was 1-9 in the playoffs his first 3 years

[Sarcastic]

Jordan fans have no comeback to pip having more success without jordan than the other way around :roll: :roll: :roll:


Really? How many rings with stacked Houston? How many rings with stacked Portland?


Pippen knew he needed Jordan. Why do you think he was begging him to come back in 1995?

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Y5T5CBCHrF8/maxresdefault.jpg

[dubeta]

Jordan during the 2nd 3 peat, was just a dude getting his 28-30 ppg on like 46% fg, not much different from Carmelo Anthony today

Just chuck inefficiently, get his 3-4 assists, and 5 rebounds and he could win a ring

Rodman dominated the boards and interior defense, Pippen ran the offense and locked down the guards, and MJ basically coasted to rings as the figurehead 'leader' of the team.

Its similar to Kobe winning those rings shooting 40%, when Gasol, Bynum, and Odom had the glass and interior locked down, one would think Kobe was the main reason or some BS


If you dont think MJ's championship teams were fully loaded in every sense of the word you dont know what you're talking about

[rlsmooth775]

Really? How many rings with stacked Houston? How many rings with stacked Portland?


Pippen knew he needed Jordan. Why do you think he was begging him to come back in 1995?

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Y5T5CBCHrF8/maxresdefault.jpg

Jordan 1-9 his his first 3 seasons as leader pip 55 wins second round first year as leader

[oarabbus]

the argument is so dumb it's not worth a response.


It's not really any dumber than your "90S ROX MODERN DAY SUX" arguments

[3ball]

Rodman dominated the boards and interior defense, Pippen ran the offense and locked down the guards, and MJ basically coasted to rings as the figurehead 'leader' of the team.


Rodman and Pippen were completely MIA in the 1998 Finals..

Rodman averaged only 8.3 rebounds and Pippen averaged 15ppg on 41% shooting (worse than Wade in this year's Finals).

Jordan backpacked it alone with 27 shot attempts per game, 34ppg, and the greatest clutch play any of us has ever seen.

But this was standard for the the all-time leader in Win Shares and WS/48 (which means he contributed more to his teams wins than any player in history).

[Cocaine80s]

Lebron+Brown>>>

[Sarcastic]

Jordan 1-9 his his first 3 seasons as leader pip 55 wins second round first year as leader


Can you even name the teams the Bulls played, or do you just regurgitate nonsense?

[rlsmooth775]

Rodman and Pippen were completely MIA in the 1998 Finals..

Rodman averaged only 8.3 rebounds and Pippen averaged 15ppg on 41% shooting (worse than Wade in this year's Finals).

Jordan backpacked it alone with 27 shot attempts per game, 34ppg, and the greatest clutch play any of us has ever seen.

But this was standard for the the all-time leader in Win Shares and WS/48 (which means he contributed more to his teams wins than any player in history).

Not that impressive the Utah jazz sucked on offense they were pretty average on all time scale

[T_L_P]

In the 2000s/2010s East? Jordan.

That's if we're assuming LeBron had to play in the 90s.

If it's both modern day, LeBron + Phil.

[DatAsh]

Agreed. It would take LeBron 4, maybe 5 years, to learn how to play in the triangle.

He's a lot better than he used to be off the ball. He improved a lot in Miami in that respect.

[3ball]

Not that impressive the Utah jazz sucked on offense they were pretty average on all time scale
Right... they only swept Shaq's 4 all-star Lakers in the WCF (Shaq, Kobe, Eddie Jones, and Van Exel... to go with Elden Campbell, Robert Horry, Derek Fisher and Rick Fox - a complete juggernaut super-team)..

and this was AFTER Utah had crushed Popovich's 56-win, Duncan/Robinson Spurs in 5 games in the WCSF.

:facepalm

[Sarcastic]

I love how Bran Stans trash on Erik Spoelstra. He won 47 games in his second year with his second option being Michael freaking Beasley. This is in the so-called super stacked modern era, where every team has multiple superstars.

[I<3NBA]

Better duo

Lebron and Phil or Kobe and Spoelstra?

[rlsmooth775]

Right... they only swept Shaq's 4 all-star Lakers in the WCF (Shaq, Kobe, Eddie Jones, and Van Exel... to go with Elden Campbell, Robert Horry, Derek Fisher and Rick Fox - a complete juggernaut super-team)..

and this was AFTER Utah had crushed Popovich's 56-win, Duncan/Robinson Spurs in 5 games in the WCSF.

:facepalm

Yeah because kobe and Eddie jones were such great players in. 98 kobe made an all star team averaging 15 ppg 39% shooting Duncan was rookie

[rlsmooth775]

3ball getting owned by facts

[rlsmooth775]

Why does jordan get credit for winning against crap teams that couldn't score

[JT123]

lebron doesnt listen to coaches anyway. he runs his own offense called "i'm lebron, i'm gonna make everyone stand at the three point line while i drive and look for a layup. if defenders collapse. i might pass you the ball



he's been doing this his entire career.

lebron would refuse a role in the triangle offense. he'd never get another triple double. and thats more important to lebron than rings. he loves his make shift stats
:sleeping Call me when Lebron has an all time great coach write a book in which he calls him a cancer, and then quits because Bron wasn't traded.

[T_L_P]

Why does jordan get credit for winning against crap teams that couldn't score

Had no problem beating the best ranked offense in 93 (averaging 41/9/6 on them).

Then against the 1st ranked defense in 93 he averaged 32/6/7.

[rlsmooth775]

Had no problem beating the best ranked offense in 93 (averaging 41/9/6 on them).

Then against the 1st ranked defense in 93 he averaged 32/6/7.

He shot like garbage against the Knicks and it was a rigged series

[JT123]

Can you even name the teams the Bulls played, or do you just regurgitate nonsense?
:oldlol: I love how these idiots are always like "2/5, Bron lost in the Finals again!" But whenever Jordan's 1-9 playoff record without Pip is brought up they suddenly wanna use context. :sleeping

[rlsmooth775]

Had no problem beating the best ranked offense in 93 (averaging 41/9/6 on them).

Then against the 1st ranked defense in 93 he averaged 32/6/7.

Also jordan getting credit for beating garbage teams is still true your post means nothing.

[T_L_P]

Also jordan getting credit for beating garbage teams is still true your post means nothing.

The worst team Jordan faced might be on-par with LeBron's biggest Eastern opponent, other than the 08 Celtics.

[JT123]

The worst team Jordan faced might be on-par with LeBron's biggest Eastern opponent, other than the 08 Celtics.
This from someone who has already admitted he never saw Jordan play. :oldlol: Sit down son, and leave the discussion to those of us who actually watched the NBA back then.

[rlsmooth775]

The worst team Jordan faced might be on-par with LeBron's biggest Eastern opponent, other than the 08 Celtics.

The teams in 96-01 were trash

[Paul George 24]

Come on now. Lebron + Phil >>>> Jordan + Spoelstra

nice joke :applause:

[Paul George 24]

The teams in 96-01 were trash
u are a moron :applause:

[AnaheimLakers24]

phil would make bran crumble with his mind games.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Jordan & Spoelstra.

[c5terror]

The teams in 96-01 were trash
No, All Lebron face on his conference aside from celtic 08 where all trash and much more garbage than team on 96-01 who didn't make the playoffs.

[Mr Exlax]

I'd like to see LeBron with an alltime great coach. Just to see how much better the coach can make him and a coach that can maximize his as well as the rest of the talent on the floor. Best thing I saw Spo do was get into it with Dwade when he was slacking ass on defense i think their first year.