Kobe has never lead the league in PER

[rlsmooth775]

He was never the most dominant player in any of his 18 years playing

[gts]

This is why you have negative rep on a board that doesn't even allow negative rep

[IllegalD]

He was never the most dominant player in any of his 18 years playing

According to PER Kobe was the real go to guy of the 2001 Lakers cause he had a higher PER than Shaq throughout the whole playoffs. :applause:

[dubeta]

:applause: good thread

MJ led it 6 times, and LeBron led it 5-6 times if I recall correctly

Heck even D wade, Dwight Howard, CP3 are more productive than Kobe


when are these stans going to realize that seeing someone make 1 contested fadeaway, and then miss the next 5 shots isnt productive or efficient?

This Kobe kool-aid of him being dominant has blinded too many people for too long

[G0ATbe]

He was never the most dominant player in any of his 18 years playing
Yeah, according to some stat nerd on ISH:rolleyes: . The masses of knowledgeable basketball fans already know Kobe's the most dominant player of the last decade.

[AnaheimLakers24]

and still managed to win 5 rings

amazing player!

[dubeta]

and still managed to win 5 rings

amazing player!

Still less than Horry tho

[Lord Bean]

Horry
Another player with more rings than Lebron

Thank you for insight

[gts]

Another player with more rings than Lebron

Thank you for insightThere are lots of players with more rings than Lebron

[Lord Bean]

There are lots of players with more rings than Lebron
This more proof that Lebron is not top 20 of all time list.

[tpols]

because PER is bullshit

[Kvnzhangyay]

This more proof that Lebron is not top 20 of all time list.

of your*

[KingLeBronJames]

Still less than Horry tho
I don't get it. What has Horry done?

[dubeta]

According to PER Kobe was the real go to guy of the 2001 Lakers cause he had a higher PER than Shaq throughout the whole playoffs. :applause:

Blatant lie, leave the discussions to the big boys

Kobe 2001 Playoff PER 25

Shaq 2001 Playoff PER 28.7


Kobe has literally led his champion ship team in PER only 1/5 times

Just pathetic :facepalm

[Beastmode88]

Blatant lie, leave the discussions to the big boys

Kobe 2001 Playoff PER 25

Shaq 2001 Playoff PER 28.7


Kobe has literally led his champion ship team in PER only 1/5 times

Just pathetic :facepalm

Kobe played robin won 3 rings. Lebron played robin and managed to have the worst 4th quarters performance of his life. :confusedshrug:

[dubeta]

Kobe played robin won 5 rings. Lebron played robin and managed to have the worst 4th quarters performance of his life. :confusedshrug:

fixed

[KingLeBronJames]

fixed
How can Kobe play robin in 2009 and 2010 when he clearly was the best player?

[Marchesk]

Kobe has literally led his champion ship team in PER only 1/5 times

Shocking, but still beats 2/5.

[aj1987]

How can Kobe play robin in 2009 and 2010 when he clearly was the best player?
Because dubeta. That's why.

[sportjames23]

There are lots of players with more rings than Lebron


*coughcoughDWadecoughcough*

[clipps]

I heard Shaq was pretty good in his prime.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Yeah, according to some stat nerd on ISH:rolleyes: . The masses of knowledgeable basketball fans already know Kobe's the most dominant player of the last decade.

The last decade goes back to 2004, pal - LBJ takes that honour.

[Nikola_]

Inb4 aYoutunde Ndiaye

[riseagainst]

His fmvp ratio? yea probably

reported

[HurricaneKid]

Kobe has never lead the league in PER

Yes but look at all the times he was second.

Oops. He has never even been second.

[HurricaneKid]

# of times led the league - ZERO
# of times he was second in the league - ZERO
# of times he was third in the league - ONCE
# of times he was 4th in the league - ZERO

This is a stat that rewards shot jackers. You should see RAPM... Its far worse...

[Jlamb47]

Kobe has never gave a fvck either
dude got 5 rings hes chillin for life
hes already top 10

[Dragic4Life]

Never was the best player in the league. Kinda like Durant, but worse.

[StephHamann]

This is why you have negative rep on a board that doesn't even allow negative rep

:oldlol:

[SOD 21]

Well let's see…

Kobe Bryant, Bill Russell, Hakeem Olajuwon, Tim Duncan, Larry Bird and Magic Johnson have played a combined 92 seasons in the NBA by my count. That is over half of the players generally regarded as top 10-11 players all time.

How many of these exclusive PER titles won in this group? Two. That's it.

[ImKobe]

Kobe is the Derek Jeter of the NBA

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ho6lw-ifLEE/UzxS9nc1h4I/AAAAAAAAHzA/etgmN6bTN1c/s1600/xlxjdu.gif

[Deuce Bigalow]

Blatant lie, leave the discussions to the big boys

Kobe 2001 Playoff PER 25

Shaq 2001 Playoff PER 28.7


Kobe has literally led his champion ship team in PER only 1/5 times

Just pathetic :facepalm
Blatant lie...

2009 Playoff PER
Kobe: 26.8
Pau: 21.9

2010 Playoff PER
Kobe: 24.7
Pau: 24.0

[dh144498]

Blatant lie...

2009 Playoff PER
Kobe: 26.8
Pau: 21.9

2010 Playoff PER
Kobe: 24.7
Pau: 24.0

:roll:

ethered

[ImKobe]

Blatant lie...

2009 Playoff PER
Kobe: 26.8
Pau: 21.9

2010 Playoff PER
Kobe: 24.7
Pau: 24.0

Plus Kobe led the Playoffs in total WS and had the same WS/48 as Shaq in 2001, and he had much better production in the first 3 rounds than Shaq.

[SOD 21]

Kobe is the Derek Jeter of the NBA

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ho6lw-ifLEE/UzxS9nc1h4I/AAAAAAAAHzA/etgmN6bTN1c/s1600/xlxjdu.gif

There are some similarities between Kobe Bryant and Derek Jeter with each of them playing their entire careers with one franchise, historically great franchises in large markets, and their longevity helping them to put up some historically great numbers. In addition to great longevity and playing for great franchises, they also each won 5 championships.

However, Kobe Bryant played at a higher and more elite level then Derek Jeter. For example, Kobe Bryant has finished in the top five in the MVP voting 11 times compared to only three times for Derek Jeter. Not to mention that Derek Jeter never won a regular-season MVP award.

[Deuce Bigalow]

[QUOTE=SOD 21]Well let's see

[ImKobe]

There are some similarities between Kobe Bryant and Derek Jeter with each of them playing their entire careers with one franchise, historically great franchises in large markets, and their longevity helping them to put up some historically great numbers. In addition to great longevity and playing for great franchises, they also each won 5 championships.

However, Kobe Bryant played at a higher and more elite level then Derek Jeter. For example, Kobe Bryant has finished in the top five in the MVP voting 11 times compared to only three times for Derek Jeter. Not to mention that Derek Jeter never won a regular-season MVP award.

Jeter should have won back in 06..

funny how they both got robbed the same year :kobe:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Speaking of PER, Kobe's peak PER season (28.0) in 05-06 is higher than the peak PER of the following players: Bird (27.8), Hakeem (27.3), Duncan (27.1), Magic (27.0), Russell (22.8).

[SOD 21]

Jeter should have won back in 06..

funny how they both got robbed the same year :kobe:

Kobe Bryant may have been the best player in 2006.

But the truth is no player is going to win in the MVP, even if they are the best player, if their team only wins 45 games in the regular season.

You have to both be great and play for an elite team.

[ImKobe]

Speaking of PER, Kobe's peak PER season (28.0) in 05-06 is higher than the peak PER of the following players: Bird (27.8), Hakeem (27.3), Duncan (27.1), Magic (27.0), Russell (22.8).


But but....

[dh144498]

Speaking of PER, Kobe's peak PER season (28.0) in 05-06 is higher than the peak PER of the following players: Bird (27.8), Hakeem (27.3), Duncan (27.1), Magic (27.0), Russell (22.8).

It's official, peak Kobe > all those players.

[HurricaneKid]

Plus Kobe led the Playoffs in total WS and had the same WS/48 as Shaq in 2001, and he had much better production in the first 3 rounds than Shaq.

Did you really want to jump into WS? Because Pau led the team in regular season WS in 2010. He also led the team in playoff WS. And he even led the team in Finals WS.

Kobe has also never finished in the top 3 in the league in WS. Or WS/48.

[T_L_P]

One advanced stat on its own is pretty useless. You need to weigh it with a number of things: accomplishments, raw stats, other advanced stats (particularly WS/48 among bigger minute players), things not recorded on the stat sheet etc etc.

Kobe was the second best player in 2001 but he didn't have a top 2 PER (I might be wrong on that one).

[ImKobe]

Did you really want to jump into WS? Because Pau led the team in regular season WS in 2010. He also led the team in playoff WS. And he even led the team in Finals WS.

Kobe has also never finished in the top 3 in the league in WS. Or WS/48.

He has led the Playoffs in WS and WS/48 and been in top 3 in other of his deep Playoff runs

and he was tied for 3rd in WS in 07, .2 total WS behind 3rd (Billups) in 06 while playing 1 less game..

Kobe been top 5 in WS damn near every year of his prime and half a win or less away from top 3 :rolleyes:

Kobe is an inefficient chucker, yet he's still found a way to be top 3-5 in efficiency rankings :kobe:, he was .1 PER away from leading the league in 06 (Lebron & Dirk tied for 28.1)

[HurricaneKid]

He has led the Playoffs in WS and WS/48 and been in top 3 in other of his deep Playoff runs

and he was tied for 3rd in WS in 07, .2 total WS behind 3rd (Billups) in 06 while playing 1 less game..

Kobe been top 5 in WS damn near every year of his prime and half a win or less away from top 3 :rolleyes:

Kobe is an inefficient chucker, yet he's still found a way to be top 3-5 in efficiency rankings :kobe:, he was .1 PER away from leading the league in 06 (Lebron & Dirk tied for 28.1)

I don't even. Tied for 3rd, just .2 behind third? The rest of us call that 4th. I mean I am used to excuses but WHAT?

Top 5 every year in his prime? He has been top 3 ZERO times, 4th 3X and 5th once. Sixth zero times. Thats 5 times in his 17 year career he has been in the top 6.

[HurricaneKid]

12-time All-Defensive Team selection:
First team: 2000, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011
Second team: 2001, 2002, 2012[/LIST]


u mad OP? :kobe:


I'll be honest. This makes me mad.

We know that over the course of his 17 year+ career and 50,000 possessions he has had a negative impact on his team's defense. Its the equivalent to all those Jeter Gold Gloves.

[HurricaneKid]

One advanced stat on its own is pretty useless. You need to weigh it with a number of things: accomplishments, raw stats, other advanced stats (particularly WS/48 among bigger minute players), things not recorded on the stat sheet etc etc.

Kobe was the second best player in 2001 but he didn't have a top 2 PER (I might be wrong on that one).

He was actually 6th in 2001. I wouldn't pick a fight if you wanted to call him #2-10 that year as there was a logjam behind Shaq. I certainly wouldn't put him that high but I wouldn't bother to argue it.

RAPM is probably the best stat out there and Kobe has never been in the top 5 in RAPM. He was 17th in 01.

[chazzy]

He was actually 6th in 2001. I wouldn't pick a fight if you wanted to call him #2-10 that year as there was a logjam behind Shaq. I certainly wouldn't put him that high but I wouldn't bother to argue it.

RAPM is probably the best stat out there and Kobe has never been in the top 5 in RAPM. He was 17th in 01.
Playoffs?

[fpliii]

He was actually 6th in 2001. I wouldn't pick a fight if you wanted to call him #2-10 that year as there was a logjam behind Shaq. I certainly wouldn't put him that high but I wouldn't bother to argue it.

RAPM is probably the best stat out there and Kobe has never been in the top 5 in RAPM. He was 17th in 01.
01 RAPM isn't reliable. J.E. used play-by-play from basketball-reference.com, and a good portion of the data is unparsed (I've heard estimates ranging from 15% missing to 50%). Also, 01 doesn't have a prior.

ascreamingcomesacrossthecourt.blogspot.com has RAPM for 97 through 00 (based on play-by-play from stats.nba.com), but he hasn't done anything with 01 or 02 yet.

For the most part, these are reliable sources:

97-00 - ascreamingcomesacrossthecourt.blogspot.com
03-07 - https://sites.google.com/site/rapmstats/ (J.E.'s numbers, removed from his site; he does have a nice 14-year dataset up, though)
08-14 - gotbuckets.com/

Playoffs?
RAPM includes regular season and playoffs. The guys publishing it weight postseason possessions double as much as regular season possessions.

[HurricaneKid]

Playoffs?

Thats why I wouldn't fight you on #2. He was #6 in PER, #17 in RAPM. But he was tremendous in the playoffs and I'm giving him a ton of credit for his play.

[L.A.Hawks]

according to PER, elton brand was top 3 player in the league at one time

according to PER greg monroe is one of the NBA's elite

according to PER......it knows nothing about NBA skill and winning games.

[rlsmooth775]

according to PER, elton brand was top 3 player in the league at one time

according to PER greg monroe is one of the NBA's elite

according to PER......it knows nothing about NBA skill and winning games.

When players take the same amount of shots play similar minutes you can compare PER

[L.A.Hawks]

When players take the same amount of shots play similar minutes you can compare PER

kobe has 5 championships....PER that.

[Marchesk]

kobe has 5 championships....PER that.

5 PER 18 seasons = .277 * 100 = 27.7. Not bad.

Lebron 2 PER 11 seasons = 18.2. Not so great so far.

Jordan 6 PER 13 seasons = 46.2. Awesome. (Washington doesn't count)

Horry 7 PER 16 seasons = 43.6. Confirmed, MJ > Horry.

Hondo 8 PER 16 seasons = 50.0. Top 5 all-time.

Russell 11 PER ...

[riseagainst]

5 PER 18 seasons = .277 * 100 = 27.7. Not bad.

Lebron 2 PER 11 seasons = 18.2. Not so great so far.

Jordan 6 PER 13 seasons = 46.2. Awesome. (Washington doesn't count)

Horry 7 PER 16 seasons = 43.6. Confirmed, MJ > Horry.

Hondo 8 PER 16 seasons = 50.0. Top 5 all-time.

Russell 11 PER ...

:roll:

[ImKobe]

I don't even. Tied for 3rd, just .2 behind third? The rest of us call that 4th. I mean I am used to excuses but WHAT?

Top 5 every year in his prime? He has been top 3 ZERO times, 4th 3X and 5th once. Sixth zero times. Thats 5 times in his 17 year career he has been in the top 6.

how was he top 3 zero times when he had the 3rd highest WS, tied with Duncan?