I met a Christian who told me he didnt believe in Allah

[sweggeh]

Funny as ****. We were talking about ISIS and the conversation changed to Muslims and I cant remember what happened but he said he didnt believe in Allah and I was like, er...yes you do. And he started arguing.

The dumb guy couldnt understand that Allah is not a different being but just the arabic term for God. Christians in Arabic speaking countries pray to Allah. A Muslim will agree they believe in God but a Christian person wont agree they believe in Allah? What sense does this make :oldlol:

I started taking the piss out of him. I asked if he believed in Dios or Got. He looked at me like I was crazy. What a dumb mofo.

[sweggeh]

"Ali, do you believe in Allah?"
"Yes"
"Do you believe in God?"
"Yes"

"John do you believe in God?"
"Yes"
"Do you believe in Allah?"
"Whoa, hold up there Chris"

[RidonKs]

you can believe in the christian holy trinity and not believe in all praise be it to allah.

you're wrong; they are not the exact same thing.

[sweggeh]

you can believe in the christian holy trinity and not believe in all praise be it to allah.

you're wrong; they are not the exact same thing.

So what do you call God then? Cause pretty much every language has their name for God. Germans, Spaniards, Frenchman, they all call it something different. But it all means the same thing.

[imdaman99]

Short answer, they are both monotheistic religions so yes, the lone God is the same.

Long answer, holy trinity means they are different.

But technically I agree with you.

[RidonKs]

not according to religious scripture and doctrine though, which when we're talking about belief among christians and muslims, is what we should be looking at. i can play semantics games with you as well and i'd probably be able to poke out more than a few hypocrisies, double standards, and faith based convictions. in fact you could probably do the same with me.

if we're talking about god in the context of "is there a god in this world" it is appropriate to use the definition you're implying this christian didn't understand. but if we're talking about god in the context of human beliefs and behaviours, it is inappropriate to fail to differentiate between different religious denominations.

edit: i use the term god all the time. but i don't use it in a religious sense because i'm not religious. and when i do use it in that sense, i specify "the islamic god" or "the buddhist god" or "the greek gods" or w/e.

[sweggeh]

not according to religious scripture and doctrine though, which when we're talking about belief among christians and muslims, is what we should be looking at. i can play semantics games with you as well and i'd probably be able to poke out more than a few hypocrisies, double standards, and faith based convictions. in fact you could probably do the same with me.

if we're talking about god in the context of "is there a god in this world" it is appropriate to use the definition you're implying this christian didn't understand. but if we're talking about god in the context of human beliefs and behaviours, it is inappropriate to fail to differentiate between different religious denominations.

So what does a Christian in an Arabic speaking country use to refer to God?

[RidonKs]

So what does a Christian in an Arabic speaking country use to refer to God?
allah i suppose. do you believe there might be a bunch of different colloquial meanings for the term 'allah' in arabic, the same way english-speaking people use 'god' in various ways?

when i say as a committed atheist that "i love god", i am not using it in the same sense as the westboro baptist priest who says "god hates ****" or the honest churchgoing man who says "i believe in god, the father almighty, creator of the heaven and earth" or the satanic witchdoctor who says "god is evil".... i can go on and on. god is something different to everybody.

basically i'm saying the problem isn't that HE didn't understand THE definition of god, it's that YOU didn't understand HIS definition of god. and then you apparently proceeded to act like a jackass about it which isn't altogether surprising.

[SpecialQue]

Semantic tricks are what losers play when they aren't confident of their own positions.

[iamgine]

Allah can mean God. It can also refer specifically to Muslim's idea of God.

Just like gay can mean happy or homosexual.

Simple as that.

[GimmeThat]

"do you believe in the possibility of alien's existence"
"yes"

"since there's been that many different type of alien idea that has arised, do you agree with all of them?"

"that's like a major all on its own and coming up with language and interpretation all by myself that others might find me crazy"


"do you believe the possibility of different alien species all exist at once"

"whoa... whoa... whoa.... who are you? and what are you trying to suggest huh?"

[NumberSix]

If I have a friend named Dave and you have a friend named Dave, it's doesn't mean we're talking about the same Dave.


*edited for the sake of simplicity.

[RidonKs]

dogpile :lol

[Inactive]

you can believe in the christian holy trinity and not believe in all praise be it to allah.

you're wrong; they are not the exact same thing.Elohim is the most the most commonly used word for God in Hebrew. Jesus, as an Aramaic speaker, would've called God Elaha, or Alaha. In Arabic, that pronunciation shifted over time to Allah. Elohim, A/Elaha, and Allah are all cognate, and derive from the name of the Canaanite deity El. Jews, Christians, and Muslims all use the word to refer to the God of Abraham YHWH.

[RidonKs]

Elohim is the most the most commonly used word for God in Hebrew. Jesus, as an Aramaic speaker, would've called God Elaha, or Alaha. In Arabic, that pronunciation shifted over time to Allah. Elohim, A/Elaha, and Allah are all cognate, and derive from the name of the Canaanite deity El. Jews, Christians, and Muslims all use the word to refer to the God of Abraham YHWH.
Yaaaaahh!!!! :rockon: Waaah? :wtf: :confusedshrug:

[Inactive]

Yaaaaahh!!!! :rockon: Waaah? :wtf: :confusedshrug:What don't you understand?

Saying " I believe in God, but not Allah" is like saying "I believe in Jesus, not Yeshua", "I believe in Odin, not Wotan". They're the same thing.

[RidonKs]

na i gotcha i was just making a bad joke

[nathanjizzle]

stupid trickery

[NumberSix]

What don't you understand?

Saying " I believe in God, but not Allah" is like saying "I believe in Jesus, not Yeshua", "I believe in Odin, not Wotan". They're the same thing.
If I say I believe in Jesus and a Mormon says they believe in Jesus, we're not talking about the same Jesus.

I would mean the Jesus from Israel who was the son of the one God and Mary. The Mormon would mean the Jesus from planet Kolob, son of one of many gods and brother of Lucifer who appeared on earth in Jackson County Missouri.

[MMM]

Allah means the one who deserves worship

If you believe in a creator that is gender less and is one than the name Allah fits as good as any based on its strict definition.

[Derka]

you can believe in the christian holy trinity and not believe in all praise be it to allah.

you're wrong; they are not the exact same thing.

They may not share the same rituals and all that, but it can't be denied that Judaism, Christianity and Islam all worship the same God.

[KNOW1EDGE]

Cool story pha99ot I'm glad you shared that with us

[gts]

They may not share the same rituals and all that, but it can't be denied that Judaism, Christianity and Islam all worship the same God.

Actually it can be denied fairly easily since most people consider their religion to be the one true religion and dismiss others rather easily... I can easily understand why a person might not consider Allah a god because they don't recognize Islam as a real religion...

[KirbyPls]

They may not share the same rituals and all that, but it can't be denied that Judaism, Christianity and Islam all worship the same God.

Orthodox Christianity believes in God as trinity, as has been pointed out earlier. Unless Islam believes in Allah as a trinity, I would argue that it would not be the same God at all; though I can see your point.

[MMM]

Orthodox Christianity believes in God as trinity, as has been pointed out earlier. Unless Islam believes in Allah as a trinity, I would argue that it would not be the same God at all; though I can see your point.

Not sure if I'm right but I do believe Muslims acknowledge the holy spirit and even Jesus being the son of God. Let be clear that Muslims don't accept Jesus as being unique son of God, however, accept him as the Messiah.

[outbreak]

Who fvking cares
This.

No one thinks you are clever because you realise they essentially worship the same God. The majority of the world knows this they just don't care because they have their own belief systems and don't view them as the same thing any more. Only a jack ass would make a thread about it thinking they were cool.

[Patrick Chewing]

http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/f/0/f079e_ORIG-cool_story_bro9.jpg

[LJJ]

Funny as ****. We were talking about ISIS and the conversation changed to Muslims and I cant remember what happened but he said he didnt believe in Allah and I was like, er...yes you do. And he started arguing.

The dumb guy couldnt understand that Allah is not a different being but just the arabic term for God. Christians in Arabic speaking countries pray to Allah. A Muslim will agree they believe in God but a Christian person wont agree they believe in Allah? What sense does this make :oldlol:

I started taking the piss out of him. I asked if he believed in Dios or Got. He looked at me like I was crazy. What a dumb mofo.

Malaysia actually banned all non-Muslims from using the world Allah, because according to them Allah is the Muslim word for god only. What a bunch of idiot Muslim ****s eh?

[travelingman]

Malaysia actually banned all non-Muslims from using the world Allah, because according to them Allah is the Muslim word for god only. What a bunch of idiot Muslim ****s eh?

No, they banned a Catholic Church publication from using it. The government stated that Christians can still use the Arabic word when worshipping or congregating. It is still a suspect decision, nonetheless.

[LJJ]

No, they banned a Catholic Church publication from using it. The government stated that Christians can still use the Arabic word when worshipping or congregating. It is still a suspect decision, nonetheless.

If they ban a newspaper from using it because it's can't be used by Christians (that's literally the reason) it sets the jurisprudence.

Nevertheless, Christian churches in Malaysia are still getting bombed for using the word Allah. Bbbbbbuuuuutt....I thought it was just another word for God?

Also no....the God Muslims believe in is most definitely not the same God Christians believe in, is not the same God Jews believe in.

[sirkeelma]

you can believe in the christian holy trinity and not believe in all praise be it to allah.

you're wrong; they are not the exact same thing.

Holy Trinity in not a Christian teaching.

[IamRAMBO24]

allah i suppose. do you believe there might be a bunch of different colloquial meanings for the term 'allah' in arabic, the same way english-speaking people use 'god' in various ways?

when i say as a committed atheist that "i love god", i am not using it in the same sense as the westboro baptist priest who says "god hates ****" or the honest churchgoing man who says "i believe in god, the father almighty, creator of the heaven and earth" or the satanic witchdoctor who says "god is evil".... i can go on and on. god is something different to everybody.

basically i'm saying the problem isn't that HE didn't understand THE definition of god, it's that YOU didn't understand HIS definition of god. and then you apparently proceeded to act like a jackass about it which isn't altogether surprising.

I think Sweggeh is right. Playing with semantics is always a fallacy as a premise.

[shadow]

If I have a friend named Dave and you have a friend named Dave, it's doesn't mean we're talking about the same Dave.


*edited for the sake of simplicity.
Actually no. It's more like you're both talking about the same Dave except one of you believes he tapped some lady in the barn down the street and the kid she's raising is his.

[RidonKs]

I think Sweggeh is right. Playing with semantics is always a fallacy as a premise.
well fallacy or not you better get used to it because you're going to be playing with semantics for the rest of your life

[Inactive]

If they ban a newspaper from using it because it's can't be used by Christians (that's literally the reason) it sets the jurisprudence.

Nevertheless, Christian churches in Malaysia are still getting bombed for using the word Allah. Bbbbbbuuuuutt....I thought it was just another word for God?Muslims can be just as ignorant as Christians, or anyone else.


Also no....the God Muslims believe in is most definitely not the same God Christians believe in, is not the same God Jews believe in.What do you mean? They all share the God, and prophets of the Old Testament.

Are you saying they aren't worshiping the same God, because they imagine different things when they think about God, or because there are doctrinal differences between the religions? In that case modern Christians don't worship the same God as Christians from prior eras, and the various Christian denominations worship different Gods.

[tomtucker]

They are not the same God

[LJJ]

What do you mean? They all share the God, and prophets of the Old Testament.

Are you saying they aren't worshiping the same God, because they imagine different things when they think about God, or because there are doctrinal differences between the religions? In that case modern Christians don't worship the same God as Christians from prior eras, and the various Christian denominations worship different Gods.

They don't. Jewish, Christian and Muslim views of the old testament are incredibly different.

Christians believe Jesus is God. If you believe Jesus is God as a follower of Islam, that is the most heretical, death penalty worthy thought you can have. So no, it's not the same God.

Try teaching Jesus is God in Pakistan and then come back to me and tell me Muslims and Christians believe in the same God. See how that goes for you.

[pezt]

They don't. Jewish, Christian and Muslim views of the old testament are incredibly different.

Christians believe Jesus is God. If you believe Jesus is God as a follower of Islam, that is the most heretical, death penalty worthy thought you can have. So no, it's not the same God.

Try teaching Jesus is God in Pakistan and then come back to me and tell me Muslims and Christians believe in the same God. See how that goes for you.

It's basically all the same religion and they all believe in the same god but Muslims believe that God's message and intentions were misinterpreted by Jews and Christians and got corrupted over the centuries so God (Allah) send his true message to Muhammed

[Inactive]

They don't. Jewish, Christian and Muslim views of the old testament are incredibly different.There isn't a uniform interpretation of the Old Testament within any of those religions. So claiming that there isn't a uniform interpretation between them doesn't bolster your argument.


Christians believe Jesus is God. If you believe Jesus is God as a follower of Islam, that is the most heretical, death penalty worthy thought you can have. So no, it's not the same God.

Try teaching Jesus is God in Pakistan and then come back to me and tell me Muslims and Christians believe in the same God. See how that goes for you.Jews believe in Yahweh. Christians believe that Jesus was an embodied form of Yahweh. Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet of Yahweh. Same God.

[LJJ]

There isn't a uniform interpretation of the Old Testament within any of those religions. So claiming that there isn't a uniform interpretation between them doesn't bolster your argument.

Jews believe in Yahweh. Christians believe that Jesus was an embodied form of Yahweh. Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet of Yahweh. Same God.

In Catholicism, Judaism, Protestantism or Islam there isn't a broadly carried interpretation of the Old Testament? There most certainly is.


That is incredibly contradictionary. Those elements make those Gods fundamentally different. If a God requires completely different things from you, it's a different God. The Islamic God requires very different things from it's subjects than Jesus does of Christians.

[RidonKs]

In Catholicism, Judaism, Protestantism or Islam there isn't a broadly carried interpretation of the Old Testament? There most certainly is.


That is incredibly contradictionary. Those elements make those Gods fundamentally different. If a God requires completely different things from you, it's a different God. The Islamic God requires very different things from it's subjects than Jesus does of Christians.
i don't understand this post

[gigantes]

Funny as ****. We were talking about ISIS and the conversation changed to Muslims and I cant remember what happened but he said he didnt believe in Allah and I was like, er...yes you do. And he started arguing.

The dumb guy couldnt understand that Allah is not a different being but just the arabic term for God. Christians in Arabic speaking countries pray to Allah. A Muslim will agree they believe in God but a Christian person wont agree they believe in Allah? What sense does this make :oldlol:

I started taking the piss out of him. I asked if he believed in Dios or Got. He looked at me like I was crazy. What a dumb mofo.
it's simply impossible that there could be a bigger idiot on ISH than yourself

let's celebrate that fact, shall we? :banana:

:djparty

[gigantes]

I take offense to this. I take pride in my idiocy.
it's all good when you self-acknowledge

[LJJ]

i don't understand this post

It's pretty simple really.

God A: You must accept Lord Jesus as your savior or you will burn in hell.

God B: The biggest sin you could commit is to accept Jesus as your savior.

If it's the same God, that's irreconcilable. Those two things are literally the most fundemental and most important requirements of Christianity and Islam. Of course, there are many many irreconcilable differences between the Judaic/Christian/Islamic God, but that right there is right in your face. Low hanging fruit.

Saying they are the same is kind of like saying Allah is just another version of the Greek gods, except all mushed together into one. It's nonsensical.

[Inactive]

In Catholicism, Judaism, Protestantism or Islam there isn't a broadly carried interpretation of the Old Testament? There most certainly is.There is not a uniform interpretation of the Bible shared by all Protestants. There are thousands of different denominations, with varying theological views, and biblical interpretations. Amish != Anglican != Pentecostal != Quaker.

There is a specific Catholic doctrine, and hierarchy, so obviously their views tend to be more conservative, and less diverse. But even within the Catholic church, there is always controversy, and the church's position on various issues changes over time.

Jews vary in their interpretations as well. There aren't many Jews who follow the law of Moses, which calls for them to kill apostates, women who have sex out of wedlock, children who curse their parents, etc. They interpret the Bible in different ways, and maintain some traditions, while rejecting others.


It's pretty simple really.

God A: You must accept Lord Jesus as your savior or you will burn in hell.

God B: The biggest sin you could commit is to accept Jesus as your savior.

If it's the same God, that's irreconcilable. Those two things are literally the most fundemental and most important requirements of Christianity and Islam. Of course, there are many many irreconcilable differences between the Judaic/Christian/Islamic God, but that right there is right in your face. Low hanging fruit.The God Jesus worshiped was specifically the God of Abraham. The God Muhammad worshiped was specifically the God of Abraham. The God the Hebrews worshiped was specifically the God of Abraham.

There has historically been much disagreement between Christians regarding whether or not Jesus was the same "substance" as God, or whether he was a separate being, created by God. The first Christians probably did not consider him to be God, or the son of God at all. Now most (but not all) Christians believe that Jesus was the God of the Bible himself, in the form of a man.


Saying they are the same is kind of like saying Allah is just another version of the Greek gods, except all mushed together into one. It's nonsensical. That is not much of an analogy.

Bob believes that Zeus appeared on Earth, in the form of Hercules, to save humanity. Joe believes that Zeus bestowed great powers on Hercules, but that Hercules was ultimately just a man. Matt believes that Hercules is overrated, and that Zeus had nothing to do with it. All three of them refer to the same text for information about Zeus.

Do they worship different Zeuses?

[LJJ]

The God Jesus worshiped was specifically the God of Abraham. The God Muhammad worshiped was specifically the God of Abraham. The God the Hebrews worshiped was specifically the God of Abraham.

There has historically been much disagreement between Christians regarding whether or not Jesus was the same "substance" as God, or whether he was a separate being, created by God. The first Christians probably did not consider him to be God, or the son of God at all. Now most (but not all) Christians believe that Jesus was the God of the Bible himself, in the form of a man.

That is not much of an analogy.

Bob believes that Zeus appeared on Earth, in the form of Hercules, to save humanity. Joe believes that Zeus bestowed great powers on Hercules, but that Hercules was ultimately just a man. Matt believes that Hercules is overrated, and that Zeus had nothing to do with it. All three of them refer to the same text for information about Zeus.

Do they worship different Zeuses?

If they all referred to the same central text for their beliefs, yes it would be the same God but a difference in doctrine.

If they all had a entirely and fundamentally different central text that happened to share some common history, they would be worshipping different Gods.

[oarabbus]

lol religious people

[gigantes]

lol religious people
thanks for the major contribution there, archimedes

[Bandito]

sweggeh got murdered here.

[TheMan]

Great religion created by a war mongering child rapist :applause:

Then we all act shocked they have so many crazies in that garbage cult :facepalm